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furcalchick
Jan 28, 2008, 02:45 PM
i was at the mall the other day, and it seems like most of the clothes that are being sold at most mainstream stores are marketed for women who want it all to show. i'm not saying it's everyone's goal, but i'm seeing these pants where nearly all of them are made so that your butthole is showing or riding very low on your hips, and other things that make people like me, uncomfy wearing.:mad: i mean, i thought they still made clothes for the people who don't want to dress like paris hilton, etc. it's dumb that men are scolded for wearing pants low, but it's not an issue for women. it's just hard to find classy clothing that doesn't make people like an old lady anymore. and don't get me started on shoes, almost anyone makes women's shoes beyond 10's for some stupid reason.

tobywuk
Jan 28, 2008, 02:52 PM
if you ask me, the more skimpy womens clothes there are the better lol :cool:

Kamera RAWr
Jan 28, 2008, 02:57 PM
if you ask me, the more skimpy womens clothes there are the better lol :cool:

Well... can't wait to see what comes of that comment ;)

tobywuk
Jan 28, 2008, 02:59 PM
lol im only joking, its not my fault im a male.

Frisco
Jan 28, 2008, 03:03 PM
There's nothing wrong with skimpy clothing. It's what's on the inside that counts ;)

MacNut
Jan 28, 2008, 03:03 PM
The reason is that men are not supposed to show stuff. Low riders on a guy isn't right. The only guys that show the crack are plumbers.

The Past
Jan 28, 2008, 03:08 PM
i was at the mall the other day, and it seems like most of the clothes that are being sold at most mainstream stores are marketed for women who want it all to show. i'm not saying it's everyone's goal, but i'm seeing these pants where nearly all of them are made so that your butthole is showing or riding very low on your hips, and other things that make people like me, uncomfy wearing.:mad: i mean, i thought they still made clothes for the people who don't want to dress like paris hilton, etc. it's dumb that men are scolded for wearing pants low, but it's not an issue for women. it's just hard to find classy clothing that doesn't make people like an old lady anymore. and don't get me started on shoes, almost anyone makes women's shoes beyond 10's for some stupid reason.

Back to the point of OP, well said. I am glad there are still people who feel this way.

tobywuk
Jan 28, 2008, 03:15 PM
The reason is that men are not supposed to show stuff. Low riders on a guy isn't right. The only guys that show the crack are plumbers.

Were talking about females ain't we?

MacNut
Jan 28, 2008, 03:17 PM
Were talking about females ain't we?She asked about the double standard between men and women.it's dumb that men are scolded for wearing pants low, but it's not an issue for women

Silencio
Jan 28, 2008, 03:34 PM
I think the key is to avoid the malls entirely and their lowest-common-denominator chain stores that cater exclusively to the younger set. No more Wet Seal! No more Turban Outfitters!

Smaller, independent boutiques tend to do a much better job selling more youthful yet sophisticated and fashion forward apparel, but it helps to be near a bigger city to have more ready access to stores like that. Otherwise, there's some good online stores out there worth checking out. I like Bluefly.com and Tobi.com, but YMMV.

davidjearly
Jan 28, 2008, 03:47 PM
Furcalchick,

I know exactly what you are getting at. Well, perhaps not from a lady's point of view.

I personally hate it when I see women dressed in slutty, skimpy clothing. I find it a major turn off. Thankfully, my partner doesn't do it much because it would drive me crazy (and not in a good way).

Classy and sexy? Hell yeah, but it seems that almost every second female I see wears as little as possible. It leaves nothing to the imagination and, if I were still looking for a lady, would prevent me from showing the slightest interest in them. Now that I'm no longer looking, it just leads to me giving that person a certain 'label'.

ErikCLDR
Jan 28, 2008, 03:54 PM
You could always look for a pair of mom jeans
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/413599546_4e6657bd3a.jpg

MacSamurai
Jan 28, 2008, 04:58 PM
im guessing these pants were jeans?...because not many low riders of anything else.in which case jeans were never meant to be classy to begin with.

Aeolius
Jan 28, 2008, 05:06 PM
It's a real shame that kids today can't afford clothes of their own. Girls are forced to wear their little sisters' outfits, while boys are dressed in clothes that fit their dads.

Iscariot
Jan 28, 2008, 05:09 PM
I miss the day of classy women and men's clothing.

iMpathetic
Jan 28, 2008, 05:11 PM
It's a real shame that kids today can't afford clothes of their own. Girls are forced to wear their little sisters' outfits, while boys are dressed in clothes that fit their dads.

Now THAT makes sense. I shall make a billion copies of this post and glue them all over my school.

thejadedmonkey
Jan 28, 2008, 05:33 PM
There's nothing wrong with skimpy clothing. It's what's on the inside that counts ;)

You mean a girls body?:p

furcalchick
Jan 28, 2008, 05:47 PM
It's a real shame that kids today can't afford clothes of their own. Girls are forced to wear their little sisters' outfits, while boys are dressed in clothes that fit their dads.

now that's a good one.

r1ch4rd
Jan 28, 2008, 05:59 PM
I think the key is to avoid the malls entirely and their lowest-common-denominator chain stores that cater exclusively to the younger set. No more Wet Seal! No more Turban Outfitters!


Urban Outfitters must be slightly classier in the UK. It seems that covering up is in over here. This sort of thing is quite nice...

http://www.urbanoutfitters.co.uk/content/ebiz/urbanoutfitters/invt/5112423581791/5112423581791_med.jpg

Is that the sort of thing you are after?

I never thought I would see the day I was recommending women's clothes on an internet forum.

ghall
Jan 28, 2008, 05:59 PM
You could always look for a pair of mom jeans
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/413599546_4e6657bd3a.jpg

Aye caramba! :eek:

harcosparky
Jan 28, 2008, 06:05 PM
Women wear low rise pants so they can publicly display their " tramp stamp ".

You know those hideous looking tattoos on their lower back!!!

I thank God neither of my daughters want to dress like that, but then again they have no 'tramp stamps' to show off.

Must be they had a good upbringing, I dunno! :D

forafireescape
Jan 28, 2008, 06:11 PM
I thank God neither of my daughters want to dress like that, but then again they have no 'tramp stamps' to show off.

Not that you know of ;)

harcosparky
Jan 28, 2008, 06:13 PM
Not that you know of ;)

Fear not, we know! ;)

Steel Wheels
Jan 28, 2008, 06:16 PM
Nothing like seeing a pleasantly plump lady wearing spandex.

Looks like bread dough rising over the sides of bowl.

carlgo
Jan 28, 2008, 06:19 PM
I never imagined there was any shortage of women's clothing or styles!

As for the hot-girl look? Fine with me, very entertaining and appreciated. Sometimes I want to clap.

The cougars have discovered this and lust after hot men with no shirts and 6-pack abs. They seem happy.

Many of us would never be happy in the Taliban world.

Rhosfelt
Jan 28, 2008, 07:22 PM
American Eagle seems to be okay, but I do know what you are talking about, and to be honest I don't really like it...(im 18 so I have no idea what is wrong with me) but I like when girls dress up a bit more. However, sweats are fine I don't expect them to dress up every day but I definitely don't want to see undies unless they are just for me ;)


btw http://www.luckythreadz.com/large/images/muffintop_large.gif worst thing ever, I won't even be nice if you look like that.

Roger1
Jan 28, 2008, 07:33 PM
Nothing like seeing a pleasantly plump lady wearing spandex.

Looks like bread dough rising over the sides of bowl.


It's called a muffin top. As for tramp stamps, I'd like the wifey to get one :p

No, she's not a tramp. I just think they look cool.

I have to agree about young mens clothing. I think its silly when some guy is walking around grabbing his crotch because that's the only way his pant will stay up. Makes me think they're playing with themselves.

Abstract
Jan 28, 2008, 10:40 PM
There's nothing wrong with skimpy clothing. It's what's on the inside that counts ;)

You mean inside those clothes? Oh yeah, definitely agree....


Um, I like staring if a hot girl dresses really skimpy, but I'd never date someone like that, or even be friends with her. It's not that I'm snobby, but if you are a girl who dresses like that, her and I probably think and view such things very differently anyway, so we're not likely to be friends. How you dress and view your clothes does reflect your personality somewhat.



I have to agree about young mens clothing. I think its silly when some guy is walking around grabbing his crotch because that's the only way his pant will stay up. Makes me think they're playing with themselves.


I don't know how old you and harcosparky are, but big clothes was "out" a while ago.

Now you see the opposite.....guys wearing really tight, skinny jeans that don't look cool, or comfortable.

Fear not, we know! ;)
So the webcam you put in her room is working well, I presume?

ham_man
Jan 28, 2008, 11:31 PM
As for the hot-girl look? Fine with me, very entertaining and appreciated. Sometimes I want the clap.
Fixed it for you ;)

cycocelica
Jan 29, 2008, 12:10 AM
yeah but women look so good in them.

GoCubsGo
Jan 29, 2008, 12:21 AM
Women wear low rise pants so they can publicly display their " tramp stamp ".

You know those hideous looking tattoos on their lower back!!!

I thank God neither of my daughters want to dress like that, but then again they have no 'tramp stamps' to show off.

Must be they had a good upbringing, I dunno! :D
Don't even get me started on tramp stamps and the whores who display them with pride! Glad you raised better ladies. ;)

Nothing like seeing a pleasantly plump lady wearing spandex.

Looks like bread dough rising over the sides of bowl.

Here's my philosophy. There is nothing pleasant about polka Dots, spandex, and vertical strips on a large woman. I was given a blouse from banana republic once, despite it being too small it was polka dots. I said, "I do not wear anything rounder than me."

To the OP...it is unfortunate, but in many cases unless jeans and standard t-shirts are your thing it is difficult to find decent clothes that cover enough of you in the malls. It is possible though. I would hit up Ann Taylor. Trendy but sophisticated.

Iscariot
Jan 29, 2008, 02:16 AM
Trendy but sophisticated.

Baby, that's how I like it.

Applespider
Jan 29, 2008, 02:26 AM
The high-waist is back according to the catwalks. Unfortunately, while it gives stick-insect models curves, it makes normal women look like they've got enormous arses which means that with any luck it won't really take off - then again, skinny jeans did. :rolleyes:

Low-rise aren't just for showing off tramp stamps - which is harsh, I've seen some gorgeous tattoos and times they are a-changing, several of them are on the skin of very successful lawyers and accountants.

Low-rises immensely useful if you're short-waisted since it allows you more chance of having a figure. Yes, they still have to fit properly - no muffins or so baggy they fall off but they have an important place even in the not-so-skimpy wardrobes.

I think perhaps it's just time to change the stores you shop at. If youthful fashion is to let it all hang out, then move up to the next level of stores. I'm not entirely familiar with US brands but I do like places like Banana Republic and J Crew when I'm shopping out there.

Roger1
Jan 29, 2008, 09:36 AM
I don't know how old you and harcosparky are, but big clothes was "out" a while ago.

Now you see the opposite.....guys wearing really tight, skinny jeans that don't look cool, or comfortable.

Really? I work in the Ann Arbor area, and saggy pants are definitely still being worn. BTW, whats a harcosparky? You young 'uns with your computers and new fangled language confuse me sometime. Anyway, time to go print up some emails.
:p

harcosparky
Jan 29, 2008, 10:05 AM
You mean inside those clothes? Oh yeah, definitely agree....


Um, I like staring if a hot girl dresses really skimpy, but I'd never date someone like that, or even be friends with her. It's not that I'm snobby, but if you are a girl who dresses like that, her and I probably think and view such things very differently anyway, so we're not likely to be friends. How you dress and view your clothes does reflect your personality somewhat.




I don't know how old you and harcosparky are, but big clothes was "out" a while ago.

Now you see the opposite.....guys wearing really tight, skinny jeans that don't look cool, or comfortable.


So the webcam you put in her room is working well, I presume?

I am old enough to have common sense and know what decency is, and to impart that knowledge on my children. I as a parent am responsible for having children and also for what those children do, and how they act.

How the hell can a parent NOT know what their children are wearing to school? The comment about the webcam, I guess was some weak attempt at humor, but it wasn't really funny.

We, the wife and I are parents and .... OH MY GOD ... we are INVOLVED in the lives of our children. We actually know what they wear, where they go, and for the most part who they hang out with. I know that sounds harsh, but I don't give a damn!!! Most of todays social ill can be traced to parents who just don't care.

{ SEGWAY }

Here is another perspective and perhaps a question for the young women who dress in a manner that leaves NOTHING to the imagination .....

When you go out in public, your boobs and butt all but hanging out for everyone to see ... do you get upset when an older man stares at you?

Is he a pervert desiring to do nasty things with you? Or is he a man who wonders why kind of parent would let their kids run around looking like that.

Why the hell do you dress like that and go out in public if not to draw attention to yourself. You cannot select who will look at you, but you can select the clothing you wear and the clothing you choose will indirectly select who looks at you.

What I laugh at are the girls who have thier butts hanging out and they are constantly pulling down their tops in attempt to cover up. I so want to walk up to them and tell them ......

" ask your mom to buy you clothes that fit, and stop giving you your little sisters things to wear. " :D:D:D:D

Brings me to this quote ....

" what kind of society have we become where we cannot afford to but correct fitting clothing for out children. We have boys running around in their fathers pants ( saggy clothing ), and teenage girls running around in their baby sisters clothing "

Applespider
Jan 29, 2008, 10:15 AM
Here is another perspective and perhaps a question for the young women who dress in a manner that leaves NOTHING to the imagination .....

When you go out in public, your boobs and butt all but hanging out for everyone to see ... do you get upset when an older man stares at you?

What kind of ages are you thinking of here to class as 'young'? I disagree with kids and those under 18 being sexualised with inappropriate adult clothing (Playboy logos on child's clothing etc) but IMO, adult women should be allowed to wear what they like.

harcosparky
Jan 29, 2008, 10:30 AM
What kind of ages are you thinking of here to class as 'young'? I disagree with kids and those under 18 being sexualised with inappropriate adult clothing (Playboy logos on child's clothing etc) but IMO, adult women should be allowed to wear what they like.

If you read the question you will see that age is not an issue.

If a woman of any age goes out in public, wearing clothing that leave nothing to the imagination, is she justified at getting upset when people stare at her?

Young could be 19, 25, 32.

Yes any woman over 18 can wear whatever she likes, but if she doesn't like the attention/response that her clothing draws to her than she is wearing the wrong kind of clothing for her.

devilot
Jan 29, 2008, 10:33 AM
How the hell can a parent NOT know what their children are wearing to school? Because children are little humans. They're individuals, and they're quite capable of a lot. Do you also check what they're wearing underneath? Do you check their bags? Do you check their school lockers? Do you show up unexpectedly? If not... they could be wearing a ton of things you wouldn't approve of. ;)

Why the hell do you dress like that and go out in public if not to draw attention to yourself. You cannot select who will look at you, but you can select the clothing you wear and the clothing you choose will indirectly select who looks at you. So what does it mean if you're dressed in bummy sweats and a stranger verbally assaults you and places his hand on your thigh on a public train? You know those black baggy sweats... Ohhhhh baby! I was surely "asking for it." :rolleyes:

What I laugh at are the girls who have thier butts hanging out and they are constantly pulling down their tops in attempt to cover up. Then go into stores and pick out decent looking jeans/ pants. Like it or not, if something becomes the trend, it becomes nearly impossible to find anything remotely "cool" or nice-looking otherwise in stores (this is more for the "juniors" crowd versus the "misses" -- if you shop American women's and young women's clothing, you'll know what I'm referring to).

Markleshark
Jan 29, 2008, 10:40 AM
Meh, I don't complain about whats available, just about the fact that it's available.

Getting a little tired of the ratio of Men's clothing to Women's clothing on the high street these days.

Roger1
Jan 29, 2008, 10:41 AM
Then go into stores and pick out decent looking jeans/ pants. Like it or not, if something becomes the trend, it becomes nearly impossible to find anything remotely "cool" or nice-looking otherwise in stores (this is more for the "juniors" crowd versus the "misses" -- if you shop American women's and young women's clothing, you'll know what I'm referring to).

Ugh. I know what you mean. A couple of years ago, I wanted to buy my wife an outfit for exercising in. Nothing fancy, just some shorts and a matching top. So I was pointed to the "spandex" section. Not even Under Armour, which serves a function, just plain old spandex. It took me a while to find an appropriate outfit for her.

BTW: Sorry harcosparky, I thought you were a phrase and not a person. Guess I need to pay more attention. :o

Applespider
Jan 29, 2008, 10:43 AM
If a woman of any age goes out in public, wearing clothing that leave nothing to the imagination, is she justified at getting upset when people stare at her?

I'm sorry but I've missed the post where a woman said that she got upset from being stared at when wearing something revealing. There are lots from men saying they're outraged. And there are several from women discussing where to buy more elegant clothes.

But women of any age get used to guys staring at them even when they're quite decently attired. I wear a skirt that is nowhere close to be knicker-skimming with a pair of boots and get whistled at. I wear a V-neck top because it suits my body-shape but find men addressing my breasts. Since, I'll quite happily wear those outfits to work in an office since they're not in the least 'skimpy or revealing', I'd say it's those guys' attitudes that really need to change.

I think we can all agree that there are certain fashions that some of us like to wear or don't. But if someone knows and is comfortable with the image they're projecting, I can't see a problem with it.

sycho
Jan 29, 2008, 10:45 AM
I'd just like to say I have no problem with women's clothing... In fact, I am wearing pair of girls jeans that make me super hot. :p

furcalchick
Jan 29, 2008, 10:47 AM
Then go into stores and pick out decent looking jeans/ pants. Like it or not, if something becomes the trend, it becomes nearly impossible to find anything remotely "cool" or nice-looking otherwise in stores (this is more for the "juniors" crowd versus the "misses" -- if you shop American women's and young women's clothing, you'll know what I'm referring to).

and currently, the trend is to let it all show apparently. it's just annoying that young women who want to dress classy and modest are forced into wearing 'mom jeans' and the type because all the paris hilton wannabees want to wear the skimpy clothing. i usually shop old navy though (but i haven't gotten new clothes for a while).

devilot
Jan 29, 2008, 10:55 AM
Ugh. I know what you mean. A couple of years ago, I wanted to buy my wife an outfit for exercising in... It took me a while to find an appropriate outfit for her. *curtseys* It ain't so easy. One thing to talk the talk, another to walk the walk.

But women of any age get used to guys staring at them even when they're quite decently attired... I'd say it's those guys' attitudes that really need to change. I would say I love you, but that'd be redundant. ;)

I think we can all agree that there are certain fashions that some of us like to wear or don't. But if someone knows and is comfortable with the image they're projecting, I can't see a problem with it. Yup. Sometimes, it is fun to wear something a bit risqué. But it's done on our own terms (hopefully) and with full knowledge that some eyes might be drawn to us.

But I feel compelled to make it abundantly clear-- attracting eyes is one thing, but skimpy clothing does NOT in ANY WAY equate an invitation to touch, molest, verbally assault.

it's just annoying that young women who want to dress classy and modest are forced into wearing 'mom jeans' and the type because all the paris hilton wannabees want to wear the skimpy clothing. i usually shop old navy though (but i haven't gotten new clothes for a while). That's something you have to consider, I'm sorry, but in shopping for clothes, you have to consider the target market of a given store. Old Navy? Let's face it, it's a cheaper manufacturer that makes cheaper clothing (and not all that cheap at full MSRP) geared towards much younger and more casual folks.

Want nicer things with more choices? Gotta spend a bit more. Even GAP (a sibling company of Old Navy > GAP> Banana) offers more cuts and waists than ON. Will it cost more? Most likely. But unfortunately, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I agree with previous posters, check out Gap, Banana, J Crew, Ann Taylor for less revealing styles.

harcosparky
Jan 29, 2008, 10:59 AM
Because children are little humans. They're individuals, and they're quite capable of a lot. Do you also check what they're wearing underneath? Do you check their bags? Do you check their school lockers? Do you show up unexpectedly? If not... they could be wearing a ton of things you wouldn't approve of. ;)

Check what they wear underneath? I guess when the wife does all the laundry, she would see what they wear ... don't ya think?

Yes we have checked their backpacks/bags, both before they leave for school and when they come home. My son was known to sneak prohibited electronics into school. ( iPod / Gameboy / Cell Phone ) Because of these random checks he now leaves those items on his desk in plain view.

Actually we do from time to time, stop in the schools unannounced to see what is going on and to check lockers.

I think it is a parents responsibility to set standards of behavior, and to take actions necessary to enforce those standards.

So what does it mean if you're dressed in bummy sweats and a stranger verbally assaults you and places his hand on your thigh on a public train? You know those black baggy sweats... Ohhhhh baby! I was surely "asking for it." :rolleyes:

Let's keep in mind what I have said, IF you dress with almost all exposed you will attract attention you may not desire. Criminal assaults can and will happen regardless of dress, I'd say 'situation' is more a determing factor in criminal assaults than clothing, but that is a topic for a separate discussion. ( How Not To Become A Crime Victim )

You cannot deny/argue that what you wear is what people see, and we all make initial judgements based on what we see.

If you dress like a lady, you can be expected to be treated like a lady.
If you dress like a clown, expect people to respond to you as a clown.

Then go into stores and pick out decent looking jeans/ pants. Like it or not, if something becomes the trend, it becomes nearly impossible to find anything remotely "cool" or nice-looking otherwise in stores (this is more for the "juniors" crowd versus the "misses" -- if you shop American women's and young women's clothing, you'll know what I'm referring to).

Yes it is difficult to find decent clothing in the stores form time to time. Thank god it is not impossible. My wife takes my daughter clothes shopping, and the always both seem to be able to come home happy.

harcosparky
Jan 29, 2008, 11:02 AM
Yup. Sometimes, it is fun to wear something a bit risqué. But it's done on our own terms (hopefully) and with full knowledge that some eyes might be drawn to us.

But I feel compelled to make it abundantly clear-- attracting eyes is one thing, but skimpy clothing does NOT in ANY WAY equate an invitation to touch, molest, verbally assault.



I agree 100% .... now we have a common ground to work from.

Now let's get on to appropriate locations for ' risque' clothing?

I dont think anyone said wearing skimpy clothing is an invitation for criminal behavior ... at least it was not my intent to imply that.

RugoseCone
Jan 29, 2008, 11:03 AM
The only guys that show the crack are plumbers.


Apparently you've been spared the dreaded "Carpenter's Crack". I do a lot of work with a cabinet-shop and there's unfortunately a whole lot of crck on display there.

jaydub
Jan 29, 2008, 11:14 AM
I think the message tends to get carried away when the concept of men looking at decently attired or scantily clad women comes up. Save for the ethically devoid men out there, there's a huge difference between a glance and some physical advance.

I have to admit that it frustrates me that men are frequently portrayed as these horny animals who stare at any girl whose cleavage is showing. I think responsibility lies in both parties: the man who is wiling to look and the woman who is willing to display. If there are bodily parts which are commonly associated with arousal (there aren't topless clubs for nothing), then it's reasonable that a man will look if they're halfway out of one's shirt.

There's obviously an issue of disrespect, but as visual as people are, I think both genders objectify one another.

Applespider
Jan 29, 2008, 11:15 AM
Let's keep in mind what I have said, IF you dress with almost all exposed you will attract attention you may not desire.

Although in many ways, that's a sad reflection on today's society since as has also been said, an invitation to look (which women may expect when dressing in a summer top or shorts) is not the same as having to deflect mucky paws or lewd comments.

And I guess we must walk around different streets, because although I do see girls in short skirts and/or shoestring tops, I don't think I've ever seen an adult woman who was almost all exposed; aside perhaps from those A-list celebs who go out in designer dresses made from safetypins...

If you dress like a lady, you can be expected to be treated like a lady. If you dress like a clown, expect people to respond to you as a clown.

I'm sorry but I always expect to be treated as a lady regardless of whether I'm in a clown suit for a fancy dress party, an evening dress, an office suit, jogging sweats, jeans or a mini-skirt. I act like a lady so I expect to be treated as one.

haiggy
Jan 29, 2008, 11:25 AM
You could always look for a pair of mom jeans
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/413599546_4e6657bd3a.jpg

LOL YES! WOOT SNL

harcosparky
Jan 29, 2008, 11:29 AM
I'm sorry but I always expect to be treated as a lady regardless of whether I'm in a clown suit for a fancy dress party, an evening dress, an office suit, jogging sweats, jeans or a mini-skirt. I act like a lady so I expect to be treated as one.

But this lead to the question ... can dress be considered behavior, and when is a certain behavior appropriate?

Would a lady wear a mini-skirt to a " black tie affair ' ?

Would a lady wear jogging sweats to a " dinner party "?

Would you wear an evening dress to the " athletic club " to work out in?

A lady might wear a micro-bikini on the beach, but would she wear it to a at her wedding?

Like was said earlier ... " sometimes it is fun to wear risque clothing ", and I agree ... but there is a time and place for it.

Bottom line I guess would be ...

" It's not what you wear, but where you wear it that makes it inappropriate. "

devilot
Jan 29, 2008, 11:35 AM
I think it is a parents responsibility to set standards of behavior, and to take actions necessary to enforce those standards.Well, I'm glad you and your wife are engaged in what your children are up to. But let it be fully understood, there are always loopholes. Always.

And clamp down too tough now, and things will change once they're given more room. It's inevitable and I've seen it many a time.

I used to hide things from my mother 'til I goofed and she found some of my not-so-parent-friendly clothing. She then decided, it'd be wiser to know what's going on and to not limit every little item. It was good to compromise. She felt I had a skirt w/ too high of slits (one on either side, and yes, they were too high) so we compromised and she sewed the slits down lower. I'm just expressing my personal experiences and what I've known and seen in others. It's beneficial not to "outlaw" a ton of things, but to keep an open path of communication and to work together on an acceptable outcome.

I dont think anyone said wearing skimpy clothing is an invitation for criminal behavior ... at least it was not my intent to imply that. It's implied. As is classic tones of victim blame in this quote: Criminal assaults can and will happen regardless of dress, I'd say 'situation' is more a determing factor in criminal assaults than clothing, but that is a topic for a separate discussion. ( How Not To Become A Crime Victim )
There is not much anyone can do to "not become a victim." The questions should instead focus on the attackers, the assaulters, the abusers. The implication in the statement being that if the "victim" is in a "bad place" or wearing certain clothing, they're somehow to blame for being victimized.

You cannot deny/argue that what you wear is what people see, and we all make initial judgements based on what we see.

If you dress like a lady, you can be expected to be treated like a lady.
If you dress like a clown, expect people to respond to you as a clown. Right, so, wearing sweats means that someone can treat me like dirt because I'm not wearing designer clothing? I think that that says more about the person "judging" than the person being judged.


I have to admit that it frustrates me that men are frequently portrayed as these horny animals who stare at any girl whose cleavage is showing. Sorry, maybe you've grown up as a woman and know what sorts of advances many of us have been subjected to?

I have been with a man, in a shoe store, trying on a pair of shoes... and was obviously "with the man," and had other men come up and make verbal advances. But surely, I must have invited those offers.

Or what about, AS's example? And countless other women? I'm sure plenty of us have been fully and respectfully clothed and still been hit w/ lewd comments, gestures, calls... But no, surely we were emitting ESP brainwaves and asking for it.

Do all men do this? No. But have I heard more stories of women experiencing these sorts of incidents over men saying they've been made uncomfortable by women and/or other men? You betcha.

I'm sorry but I always expect to be treated as a lady regardless of whether I'm in a clown suit for a fancy dress party, an evening dress, an office suit, jogging sweats, jeans or a mini-skirt. I act like a lady so I expect to be treated as one. :)

Applespider
Jan 29, 2008, 11:38 AM
But this lead to the question ... can dress be considered behavior, and when is a certain behavior appropriate?....

" It's not what you wear, but where you wear it that makes it inappropriate. "

Of course, there are certain times where you're going to dress in certain ways - although I'll confess now to having worn an evening dress at my gym since I was going out from a work out. I think that's basic common sense.

But behaviour should be good regardless. I wouldn't swear or scream, make out, touch a guy's ass in public or I wouldn't get so drunk I made myself insensible or a public nuisance regardless of what I was wearing.

Equally, I'd like to think that I could go about my business, without being overtly ogled (glancing and even a quick whistle I can cope with), groped or be hassled verbally regardless of what I was wearing.

jaydub
Jan 29, 2008, 11:40 AM
Sorry, maybe you've grown up as a woman and know what sorts of advances many of us have been subjected to?

I have been with a man, in a shoe store, trying on a pair of shoes... and was obviously "with the man," and had other men come up and make verbal advances. But surely, I must have invited those offers.
Ah of course, the ol' "You're not a woman, so you can't fathom what it's like" argument.

I live in Las Vegas - home of lewdness and verbal advances galore. I've been out in plenty of situations where there ARE advances and comments which are inappropriate. Nobody is questioning or doubting these occurrences. But placing the blame squarely on males is unreasonable.

devilot
Jan 29, 2008, 11:44 AM
But placing the blame squarely on males is unreasonable. I never said that women wouldn't receive attention if dressed a certain way. That's undeniable.

But receiving unwanted attention if dressed "normally?" And regardless of how a woman or man is dressed, you shouldn't have to put up with groping, gestures, loud calls, etc.

That'd be akin to the first few iPhones in the public-- sure, it's great, and looks tantalizing to many, doesn't give anyone an excuse to do more than look. Anymore than looking, and that person is the one out of line.

How sad is it that this analogy works to compare a woman and the way she dresses to a gadget?

XIII
Jan 29, 2008, 11:47 AM
Check what they wear underneath? I guess when the wife does all the laundry, she would see what they wear ... don't ya think?

Yes we have checked their backpacks/bags, both before they leave for school and when they come home. My son was known to sneak prohibited electronics into school. ( iPod / Gameboy / Cell Phone ) Because of these random checks he now leaves those items on his desk in plain view.

Actually we do from time to time, stop in the schools unannounced to see what is going on and to check lockers.

Really? How old are your kids?

Do you not give them any kind of responsibility? Checking bags, lockers and random visits to the school.. I guess I could understand at a certain age, but it sounds like your kids must be teenagers, 15+?

harcosparky
Jan 29, 2008, 11:51 AM
There is not much anyone can do to "not become a victim." The questions should instead focus on the attackers, the assaulters, the abusers. The implication in the statement being that if the "victim" is in a "bad place" or wearing certain clothing, they're somehow to blame for being victimized.

I disagree, there is so much one can do to avoid becoming a victim.

Would you use an outside ATM in an area with a high record of robberies? ( Note: after too many robberies the bank moved this ATM inside and you needed a bank card to get access - robberies decreased )

Would you use an underground tunnel where it is known for people being attacked? ( Note: after too many attacks the US Border Patrol closed this tunnel finally. )

Would you drive through downtown Baltimore City at midnight, with your car windows down and doors unlocked?

It used to be that when a store closed an employee would take the days receipts to the bank at the end of the night and drop them off in a Night Deposit Box. There were to many robberies. Are you saying they could do nothing to prevent becoming a victim? Well many stores realized it would be safer to secure the receipts in a locked vault inside the store until the next day, and have an employee take the bag containing the receipts INSIDE the bank during business hours. RESULT: Robberies reduced

Understand this, I am not saying you should NOT be able to safely do these things, I am asking WOULD YOU?

But see once again, you want to spin it to " blaming the victim ". It's not my intent to blame a victim for becoming a victim, but it is my intent to teach my children behaviors that will diminish the risk of becoming a victim.

I was trying to keep this on the topic of " Appropriate Dress " but you feel compelled to throw " Criminal Activity " in the mix as if the two were somehow related.

Mord
Jan 29, 2008, 11:53 AM
I find it difficult to find practical clothes that don't look horrifically drab, it's not like I'm prudish or anything I just dislike how people treat me when I'm dressed overly attractively, it's fun every now and again with the right company but I wouldn't do it casually.

For a while I did dress in a way that turned heads though wasn't too revealing, I'm tempted to pick the habit up again fort the summer but it's difficult to find suitable clothes.

For now it's cold as hell so I wear a full length fleece pixie coat ^_^

Lau
Jan 29, 2008, 12:07 PM
Ah of course, the ol' "You're not a woman, so you can't fathom what it's like" argument.

I don't think that's true, but I do think it's hard to know how tiring and repetitive it is to be getting that kind of leering attention day after day unless you've seen it.

The reason I say this is that I'm a woman, and being a bit of a scruffy ****er ;) I don't get this kind of attention, and didn't realise what it was like until I ended up walking a lot with a friend of mine who is very attractive. She doesn't dress revealingly, or act in any way to encourage it, she just seems to be the kind of person who gets attention like that. And literally 80% of guys either do a huge double take, shout something, make comments and so on.

I'm not saying it's all guys, but blimey, it doesn't half get annoying and I hadn't realised how much it happened myself.

MacNut
Jan 29, 2008, 12:41 PM
Not to offend anyone but do some girls try to go after the attention. Do they want the guys to hoot and holler. Not to say that all girls want this but I bet there are a few that like to be looked at.

I remember someone saying that girls do not dress up for guys they do it to get other girls jealous. Is there any truth to that.

furcalchick
Jan 29, 2008, 01:00 PM
Not to offend anyone but do some girls try to go after the attention. Do they want the guys to hoot and holler. Not to say that all girls want this but I bet there are a few that like to be looked at.

I remember someone saying that girls do not dress up for guys they do it to get other girls jealous. Is there any truth to that.

yes, this is true. i was never that type of girl, but i knew people that were. many of those girls were big into celebrity nonsense and the such.

biturbomunkie
Jan 29, 2008, 01:09 PM
they get my attention but i tend to distance myself from anyone who wears skimpy clothes. no offense, but hanging out with an attention-deprived mary jane rottencrotch pretty much means drama and high maintenance. =P

Keebler
Jan 29, 2008, 01:20 PM
Nothing like seeing a pleasantly plump lady wearing spandex.

Looks like bread dough rising over the sides of bowl.

omg. bad image. i just puked :)

Blue Velvet
Jan 29, 2008, 01:22 PM
Ah of course, the ol' "You're not a woman, so you can't fathom what it's like" argument.


And it's a good one... you obviously don't really know or have stopped to consider what it's like, and to paraphrase Lau; you could be dressed in a sack and still be harassed by some drooling cretin in the street with a half of the vocabulary of you and a quarter of your income. So, until you have walked in those shoes, subject to the occasional sheer mind-numbing inanity of it all, then it really is best to take women's words for it.

Anyway, interesting to see a women's clothing thread getting all these views on a tech forum. Didn't know there were so many cross-dressers here.

jaydub
Jan 29, 2008, 01:25 PM
I never said that women wouldn't receive attention if dressed a certain way. That's undeniable.

But receiving unwanted attention if dressed "normally?" And regardless of how a woman or man is dressed, you shouldn't have to put up with groping, gestures, loud calls, etc.

That'd be akin to the first few iPhones in the public-- sure, it's great, and looks tantalizing to many, doesn't give anyone an excuse to do more than look. Anymore than looking, and that person is the one out of line.

How sad is it that this analogy works to compare a woman and the way she dresses to a gadget?

Well in that regard, I do agree that some classless men out there will undoubtedly comment and give unwanted attention regardless of the attire a woman is (or isn't) wearing. I'm not sure where it should be attributed, but it seems like there is an inherent lack of respect from both sides for the opposite gender.

You're definitely right, women (or men, for that matter) should not have to put up with unwanted advances, but it's hard to say how that can be fixed.

floriflee
Jan 29, 2008, 01:51 PM
I agree with previous posters, check out Gap, Banana, J Crew, Ann Taylor for less revealing styles.

Don't forget Talbots. I've also found modest clothing at Kohl's and H&M (in the misses section), and when I can't I usually just end up layering--a tank top or shirt under a more low-cut one. There are a few online places you can find stuff like ModBe Clothing (http://www.modbeclothing.com/), that has some basic stuff to help accent your wardrobe. It's a bit pricey, but worth it since the shirts do cover as they tend to be longer.

As far as trousers go, I usually find some I like and just expect to wear them for a few seasons before they come back in stores again.

harcosparky
Jan 29, 2008, 02:26 PM
Really? How old are your kids?

Do you not give them any kind of responsibility? Checking bags, lockers and random visits to the school.. I guess I could understand at a certain age, but it sounds like your kids must be teenagers, 15+?

Actually 2 are under 15, 2 are over 15 ... the two over have a little more freedom as they have proven themselves to be somewhat responsible. They as a result of proving themselves responsible have earned a little more liberty.

Checking bags, lockers, and random visits to school are what we did prior to them being 15 or so .... DEPENDING on their behaviors. Misbehaving earns closer scrutiny. Basically we just enforced school rules, perhaps a little closer than most parents, but we never once got a call that our children were caught with anything they were not supposed to have.

Think of it this way ..... if I check their bags and/or lockers and find something there that shouldn't be there, I have done them a big favor.

How is that a favor?

Well *I* found the item, so they have to answer to *ME*.

Understand that the schools here have the right to search bags and lockers at will, and should they *school* find the items, the child has to now deal with the *school* AND *ME*. If the schools find a banned item, on first offense they return the item to the Parent, which means *I* have to make a trip to school and be lectured!

Some of what we look for is banned by the schools at grade levels K-8, once they enter the 9-12 grades the schools grant them more freedoms as well.

Again here, we are talking about certain behaviors and knowing when they are appropriate or not.

Funny how conversations can take odd twists and turns, especially this one! :D :D :D

Back to the original line ... " rant on womans clothing ".

My 16 year old daughter thinks low rise jeans are " trashy ", that's the word she used.

Badandy
Jan 29, 2008, 03:30 PM
I'll try to give you a younger perspective on this and try to be civil at the same time.

Yes we have checked their backpacks/bags, both before they leave for school and when they come home.

I have to be honest (as opposed to my usual default of being a pathological liar), this is a bit weird. Do they not mind that at all? Kids or teenagers sometimes want privacy or their own space even if they have nothing to hide.

My son was known to sneak prohibited electronics into school. ( iPod / Gameboy / Cell Phone ) Because of these random checks he now leaves those items on his desk in plain view.

Are you the TSA? I mean, unless his phone or iPod was causing a noticeable decrease in his school productivity or he was getting detentions, don't you think it might be worth it to let him bring some electronics to school? Maybe if there's an emergency he can call you on his cell phone or something? When I was in HS, you weren't allowed to bring iPods but I was never stopped by my parents. Just a nice, "Joe, you're gonna get a detention (pretend Joe is my name)!" said in a playful tone that I knew meant "it's your responsibility not to get caught."


Actually we do from time to time, stop in the schools unannounced to see what is going on and to check lockers, and cause our children untold amounts of social ostracization and ridicule..

There, fixed. :)

I think it is a parents responsibility to set standards of behavior, and to take actions necessary to enforce those standards.

It is. But I'd prefer to do something stupid (barring getting killed or thrown in jail) and facing the consequences and learning things on my own rather than arbitrarily being told what to do/what not to do.



I'm going to conclude this post saying that you might read what I've written as offensive or a severe critique of parenting, but it isn't. Being older than HS age, but not quite in the full adult world (I'm in college) I'm able to look at situations as if I were a child, but old enough to recognize that you seem to really care about your children's outcome in life, which is to be admired.



OK, on the topic of women's clothes. Being in college, you really get ALL types of styles. On party nights you have the girls who dress like major...nightwalkers, and those that just wear sweats and stuff. Personally, I'm all for a Polo shirt and some tight-ish pants/jeans.

XIII
Jan 29, 2008, 04:24 PM
Actually 2 are under 15, 2 are over 15 ... the two over have a little more freedom as they have proven themselves to be somewhat responsible. They as a result of proving themselves responsible have earned a little more liberty.

Checking bags, lockers, and random visits to school are what we did prior to them being 15 or so .... DEPENDING on their behaviors. Misbehaving earns closer scrutiny. Basically we just enforced school rules, perhaps a little closer than most parents, but we never once got a call that our children were caught with anything they were not supposed to have.

Think of it this way ..... if I check their bags and/or lockers and find something there that shouldn't be there, I have done them a big favor.

How is that a favor?

Well *I* found the item, so they have to answer to *ME*.

Understand that the schools here have the right to search bags and lockers at will, and should they *school* find the items, the child has to now deal with the *school* AND *ME*. If the schools find a banned item, on first offense they return the item to the Parent, which means *I* have to make a trip to school and be lectured!

Some of what we look for is banned by the schools at grade levels K-8, once they enter the 9-12 grades the schools grant them more freedoms as well.

Again here, we are talking about certain behaviors and knowing when they are appropriate or not.

Funny how conversations can take odd twists and turns, especially this one! :D :D :D

Ok, fair enough. I am 17, I had this image of my parents marching into school demanding to search my bag and locker - and I didn't think that was very fair.. but obviously that's not really the case. I guess it's fair to enforce the rules set by the school.

MacNut
Jan 29, 2008, 04:27 PM
Ok, fair enough. I am 17, I had this image of my parents marching into school demanding to search my bag and locker - and I didn't think that was very fair.. but obviously that's not really the case. I guess it's fair to enforce the rules set by the school.In theory, until you turn 18 there is not much you can do about it.

harcosparky
Jan 29, 2008, 06:06 PM
Ok, fair enough. I am 17, I had this image of my parents marching into school demanding to search my bag and locker - and I didn't think that was very fair.. but obviously that's not really the case. I guess it's fair to enforce the rules set by the school.

Well you are 17 and I can understand your perspective, and to some it may not be fair.

But when you think about it, life isn't 'fair' ... life is 'reality'.

The reality is that no matter where you live, society has rules. You can flaunt those rules if you choose to do so, but there are consequences. Sure you could smuggle say an iPod into school and get away with it, or NOT. If rules are not enforced, what good are the rules. If rules are enforced and and consequences not suffered for violating those rule than what good are the rules.

We live in a strange times ....

If a child in the USA takes an Aspirin to school, they could face suspension / expulsion for violating Drug policy.

If a child takes a G.I. Joe doll to school and G.I. Joe has his tiny plastic gun, he could face suspension/expulsion for bringing a gun to school, even though it is clearly a TOY GUN.

If a 16 year old boy talks to a classmate about " whacking someone with a chain gun " he will at the very least be taken to the office and the parents called. ... Never mind that whoever reported him only heard " whacking someone with a chain gun ". .... When what was said was " I watched a kid at the store play a Playstation game and he walked around whacking someone with a chain gun. "

If a 6 year old boy walks up and plants a kiss on a 6 year old female classmate he could face suspension/expulsion for sexual assault AND THIS HAS OCCURED.

They call this " Zero Tolerance " for ____________ .

My youngest son went to school with a cough, we could not give him any kind of cough 'medication' to take with him. So we had him eat a little Honey and the cough was suppressed. We got him some packets of Honey to take to school. Even so he was nervous about that.

Now here is something for parents that is NOT FAIR ....

There are laws saying we must insure our children are in school.
What if the child refuses to go to school and takes off everyday?
Law says parents can be jailed if their kids are not in school. :eek:
So what can we do to FORCE our children to attend school?
If was use Physical Force to take them to school the law says we can be jailed for " child abuse ". :eek:

What is fair about that ????

Blue Velvet
Jan 29, 2008, 06:13 PM
Ms. Mod says: Let's please try to keep this thread on topic or it'll end up in the PRSI forum... where I'm sure they'll welcome a thread on women's fashion with open arms. Thanks. :)

Abstract
Jan 29, 2008, 09:32 PM
I am old enough to have common sense and know what decency is, and to impart that knowledge on my children. I as a parent am responsible for having children and also for what those children do, and how they act.

How the hell can a parent NOT know what their children are wearing to school? The comment about the webcam, I guess was some weak attempt at humor, but it wasn't really funny.


You can't know for certain that they don't have a tattoo on their body unless you see them naked. So if you don't find what I said funny, that's too bad, but it wasn't only meant as a joke, just a reality check.


We, the wife and I are parents and .... OH MY GOD ... we are INVOLVED in the lives of our children. We actually know what they wear, where they go, and for the most part who they hang out with.


Yes, "for the most part." There are a lot of people in high schools and university that aren't great people, and yet your daughter(s) may be acquaintances, or somewhat good friends with them. It doesn't mean your daughters have to do anything bad. I have had friends in the past who do bad things, but I never find myself having to join in. I'm usually not even there. I just say "Hi" and talk to them when I see them, or go out to a bar with them and some friends I'm closer to.

It's going to happen. You just need to let go a bit and let your daughters use their own judgement. There's rarely a truly "proper" way to act. They just need to be themselves, and use what they have learnt by living.

Because of these random checks he now leaves those items on his desk in plain view.

Actually we do from time to time, stop in the schools unannounced to see what is going on and to check lockers.

I think it is a parents responsibility to set standards of behavior, and to take actions necessary to enforce those standards.


So you don't trust your kids? You don't believe that as they get older, they would become more mature and make their own decisions?

You set standards by the way you act, and you have told them how you expect them to act (in a general sense). Anything beyond that is equivalent to puppetry. They are people, and they're not going to be, or shouldn't be, cookie-cutter perfect images of you and your wife.

748s
Jan 30, 2008, 05:16 AM
Well the boys have spoken.
Sorry ladies, looks like burkas for you.

Is intelligence falling backwards that fast?

A quote comes to mind, (might of read it here sometime in the past)
"One of my main problems with organized religion is the phallocentrism and hypocritical nature of the dogma.
The Bible was written by men, for men, to suit their purposes."

Sigh.

r1ch4rd
Jan 30, 2008, 08:51 AM
We live in a strange times ....

If a child in the USA takes an Aspirin to school, they could face suspension / expulsion for violating Drug policy.

If a child takes a G.I. Joe doll to school and G.I. Joe has his tiny plastic gun, he could face suspension/expulsion for bringing a gun to school, even though it is clearly a TOY GUN.

etc etc

I am always amazed by these kind of incidents but there seems to be something about the USA that encourages them.

When I was at school (in the UK) we had none of the rules that you mention regarding toy guns and medicine. We also didn't have a drink, drug or violence problem. I can't remember ever having heard of children being involved with guns at any school in the UK. There have been school shootings but it has always been adults firing the gun (as far as I can remember).

Is there really such a problem in American schools that random locker searches and punishments for trivial "crimes", like bringing an iPod to school, are needed? Perhaps rebelling against this overbearing authority is what leads some kids to wear revealing clothes?

Also, being told to do things by your parents is generally seen as being uncool. No matter how cool the clothing that you suggest actually is it is probably a little tainted just because it is your recommendation. Nobody wants to dress like their parents. Other than school uniforms (which are mandatory in most UK schools) I was never told what not to wear when I was young and I have always chosen to wear sensible clothes.

I don't know if this is actually the cause, I am just throwing it out there. I may also be wide of the mark with my impressions of America, this is just the impression that I get from watching the news and from what people have said here.

faintember
Jan 30, 2008, 12:38 PM
Well the boys have spoken.
Sorry ladies, looks like burkas for you.

Is intelligence falling backwards that fast?I really hope you are responding to the select few males present in this thread that could fall in to this category rather than lumping all of them together. If that indeed is your point I would hope you would clarify it and/or be more conscious of your sweeping generalizations in the future. I am not trying to be offensive, rather just trying to understand your statement.

If you are responding to those men that use catcalls, make inappropriate gestures, create unwanted/unwarranted bodily contact, etc. then we are in agreement. A persons clothing, regardless of their gender, is not an invitation to any of the previously mentioned actions.

My take, as a male in his mid-late 20's, is that generally speaking I prefer a woman that dresses not necessarily conservatively, but more conservative/classy than low ride jeans/bare midriffs, etc. There is a line between low-slung, underwear-exposing jeans and burkas, and this is not a fine line in any way, except, it seems, in the minds of designers and certain merchants.A quote comes to mind, (might of read it here sometime in the past)
"One of my main problems with organized religion is the phallocentrism and hypocritical nature of the dogma.
The Bible was written by men, for men, to suit their purposes."

Sigh.I started reading this thread just to see the opinions of other women in regards to clothing, and yet I am now reading seemingly OT religious slander. Why am I not surprised?

Eraserhead
Jan 30, 2008, 12:58 PM
Ok, fair enough. I am 17, I had this image of my parents marching into school demanding to search my bag and locker - and I didn't think that was very fair.. but obviously that's not really the case. I guess it's fair to enforce the rules set by the school.

I think parents would be less likely to do this in the UK, I think its a cultural thing, because I would just think they were being paranoid. Though at my school we had to wear uniforms, and as far as I know no-one changed clothes when they got to school to look more slutty/whatever <shrug>.

Fashion can make things harder. For men there are some issues, for a while jeans were only sold with buttons rather than a zip, at that point I bought from other shops, but the only shop not falling for this madness was Marks and Spencers ;).

The real problem with women getting attacked/whatever is that men should be taught its not OK. In general social education is utterly appalling in the UK, so I'm not surprised that men don't know how to behave. On the same line women need to have it explained that it is beyond the pale to lie about this stuff. Now I'm sure the number of women doing this is several orders of magnitude lower than men, but it does happen sometimes and it needs to publicly made unacceptable. This would hopefully making juries believe the victims in rape cases to bring the conviction rate above 5%.

Melrose
Jan 30, 2008, 01:43 PM
Nothing like seeing a pleasantly plump lady wearing spandex.

Looks like bread dough rising over the sides of bowl.

GAD! That's a thought I never want in my head, not to slight the plump and portly. It's just my personal preference.

I think it cheapens a woman when she dresses with the 'whale tail' thing. Something I've actually seen a couple in Apple stores.

Woman are not meant as objects of desire, I mean not in public.

harcosparky
Jan 30, 2008, 04:30 PM
So you don't trust your kids? You don't believe that as they get older, they would become more mature and make their own decisions?



I dunno, maybe you missed much of what I said.

As they got older, they earned more trust and freedoms.

Until you've raised 4 children ages , 19, 18, 16, and 12 you really can't understand.

Trust is a funny thing, and it can be destroyed with a single phone call from school.

Do you think it wise to 'trust' a 9 yr old to make his own decisions?

Do you think it wise to 'trust' a 11 yr old to make his own decisions?

Trust is not something arbitrarily handed out, it must be earned.

Now as one Moderator has said ..... let's keep this on topic .....

Here ya go,

An adult woman can wear what she want, where she wants, when she wants.

If she wants to dress like a clown and go to church, that's on her.

Hopefully that woman has the sense of decency to wear appropriate clothing in appropriate places, and at the appropriate time.

What YOUR children wear is YOUR business, believe it or not. Would you let you son wear a t-shirt, cut-off jeans, and sandals to you nieces wedding in November?

How will a child learn what is appropriate attire, if the parents " trust them to make their own decisions "?

Bottom Line - All clothing is appropriate, in a certain place, and time.

Abstract
Jan 30, 2008, 05:37 PM
How will a child learn what is appropriate attire, if the parents " trust them to make their own decisions "?


Observation? They're not just learning from you, you know.

My parents didn't (strictly) "enforce" what I wore, and guess what? I still learnt how to dress myself. Appropriately. Even without the parents there, I managed that. Am I amazing, or am I typical? I'd say I'm a rather typical case.


I just hope you weren't going through your children's lockers when they were 17 years old. That would be unnecessary and a relationship lacking in trust.

When I was 17-18, I was travelling 1 hour to go to work, earning money, and saving it. My mum wasn't even in the backseat.