Which english do you prefer?

[lofight]

Which english do you prefer? The American English or (British) English? In Belgium we learn (British) English because it's in my teacher's view more polite, and less lousy.. He also says that Americans are very lazy with their language, saying things that grammatically aren't right. Is this right?

There are big differences actually i learned.
Colors is Colours in (British) English, same with some other words
defense is defence in (British) English, same with other words
letter is lettre in (Britis)h English, same with other words but this is changing says my teacher english..

I have always learned American English, i live in Belgium but i stayed 4 years in the American Internatiol School of Bucharest (AISB). Sorry is there are mistakes in my post.. :p

So which one do you prefer?

[119576]

letter is lettre in British English

This is incorrect.

I personally prefer British English, but that's probably because I've been taught to use it for my entire life and have become accustomed to it...

[design-is]

I too prefer British English... but I am also British/English :D

Also, English people invented the language, so this must be the more correct version surely?

Can't we just call American English 'American'? lol

[Sherman Homan]

He also says that Americans are very laisy with their language, saying things that grammaticly aren't right.
I don't know where to begin... I don't know any Americans who are "laisy". Nor do I know anyone, anywhere who says things that aren't "grammaticly" right.
:D

[miloblithe]

Where's the option for Indian English, or Canadian English, or any of the other fine English variants the world provides?

[Ish]

I don't know where to begin... I don't know any Americans who are "laisy". Nor do I know anyone, anywhere who says things that aren't "grammaticly" right.
:D

And how well do you write Belgian?

I find it funny that on the Mac you can choose between English and British English. I would have thought that, no matter where you live, it should be English and American English?? :rolleyes:

[lofight]

This is incorrect.

I personally prefer British English, but that's probably because I've been taught to use it for my entire life and have become accustomed to it...
i just saw this on a dictionary that you're right, but previously, in the beginning it was lettre because inspired by french.

I too prefer British English... but I am also British/English :D

Also, English people invented the language, so this must be the more correct version surely?

Can't we just call American English 'American'? lol
Sorry, I learned to say it this way :p

I don't know where to begin... I don't know any Americans who are "laisy". Nor do I know anyone, anywhere who says things that aren't "grammaticly" right.
:D
Don't those words exist? What my teacher says..
Where's the option for Indian English, or Canadian English, or any of the other fine English variants the world provides?
Sorry, but i'm just talking about these two..

And how well do you write Belgian?

I find it funny that on the Mac you can choose between English and British English. I would have thought that, no matter where you live, it should be English and American English?? :rolleyes:

sorry, but as i said, i'm not that well in English, the 4 years I learned English were when i was between 4 and 8..

pretty funny the mac thing :p

[design-is]

I would have thought that, no matter where you live, it should be English and American English?? :rolleyes:

Indeed
:rolleyes:
lol

Or maybe English & Incorrect English?

hehehe

[joefinan]

I don't know where to begin... I don't know any Americans who are "laisy". Nor do I know anyone, anywhere who says things that aren't "grammaticly" right.
:D

I think that's incredibly rude and quite unnecessary.

[Chillijam]

<pedantry>
Nobody speaks pure English. Every "English speaker" speaks in a dialect based upon the English language.
</pedantry>

Anyhow, to say one dialect is better than another is nonsensical. Is Greek better than Latin*? Depends who you ask. From my point of view as an inhabitant of England and user of one of the forms of British English, I would say that American English is more user-friendly in that you can get away with more. The idea of using nouns as verbs seems to have come from that side of the pond (e.g. "Let's productize that idea", etc.). Also, the spellings of some words, as you pointed out, is arguably more sensible, removing some of the silent letters. However, since it is "English" and therefore derived from the language of England, I'd say US English is arguably less pure. I'd be wrong to say that, though. English is a bastardised mix of French, German, Latin, several of the Scandinavian languages, and a whole heap of others thrown in for good measure.

I seem to have gone off into a bit of a stream of consciousness there, but my underlying point is that there shouldn't be a concept of "better or worse" when talking about languages or dialects. It makes no sense.

*I've deliberately left the dialectical argument aside. It was intentional. My point is made

[Cromulent]

Can't we just call American English 'American'? lol

Ah god no! I had a huge argument with an American guy who swore that American English was a different language and was not a dialect (which it obviously is).

As for which is best, I dunno but I hear American women love English accents. I think I'll head over their and try unleash some of that home county English charm :).

I'd just be happy is if American English was classed as international English rather than British English which should just be refered to as English.

[calculus]

And how well do you write Belgian?



Oh, the irony!

[Markleshark]

English. Propper England English.

Being the ones who invented the language and all.

[lofight]

<pedantry>
Nobody speaks pure English. Every "English speaker" speaks in a dialect based upon the English language.
</pedantry>

Anyhow, to say one dialect is better than another is nonsensical. Is Greek better than Latin*? Depends who you ask. From my point of view as an inhabitant of England and user of one of the forms of British English, I would say that American English is more user-friendly in that you can get away with more. The idea of using nouns as verbs seems to have come from that side of the pond (e.g. "Let's productize that idea", etc.). Also, the spellings of some words, as you pointed out, is arguably more sensible, removing some of the silent letters. However, since it is "English" and therefore derived from the language of England, I'd say US English is arguably less pure. I'd be wrong to say that, though. English is a bastardised mix of French, German, Latin, several of the Scandinavian languages, and a whole heap of others thrown in for good measure.

I seem to have gone off into a bit of a stream of consciousness there, but my underlying point is that there shouldn't be a concept of "better or worse" when talking about languages or dialects. It makes no sense.

*I've deliberately left the dialectical argument aside. It was intentional. My point is made

Sorry i should have said prefer.. i'll change this..

[design-is]

As for which is best, I dunno but I hear American women love English accents.

This is actually the case (in my experience)... its weird lol

But I do believe it works to our advantage :rolleyes:

[kabunaru]

Even though I am from United States, I like British English and the English accents more.

[Cromulent]

i just saw this on a dictionary that you're right, but previously, in the beginning it was lettre because inspired by french.

I have no idea of the factual accuracy of this.

Don't those words exist? What my teacher says..

It is lazy and grammatically :).

I think that's incredibly rude and quite unnecessary.

I agree. For a non native speaker he does well. Next time you can write a post in flemmish and not make a mistake maybe then you can comment.

[::Lisa::]

I too prefer British English... but I am also British/English :D

Also, English people invented the language, so this must be the more correct version surely?

Can't we just call American English 'American'? lol

I find it funny that on the Mac you can choose between English and British English. I would have thought that, no matter where you live, it should be English and American English?? :rolleyes:^ I agree with the 2 above posters, so I'll just agree with those. I also agree with the dialects. After all American English is a form of British English which has been changed/lost during the years after Settlers came to England. There is an article about it on wikipedia.

[themadchemist]

Considering that I live in America, I prefer American English. I have no real problem with British English, though, and yes, yes, I recognize that it's their language, you know, besides all the various pieces that can be attributed to dozens of groups and languages the world round.

[PlaceofDis]

Which english do you prefer? The American English or British English? In Belgium we learn British English because it's in my teacher's view more polite, and less lousy.. He also says that Americans are very laisy with their language, saying things that grammaticly aren't right. Is this right?

So which one do you prefer?

either one is 'correct' in that neither are lousy or more polite.

the problem with all language is that its changes over time, and the changes happen in different areas causing several different types of growth concurrently in different parts of the country/world.

grammar only serves to try and standardize something that is always in constant flux, and only works well in some situations, and is, by itself and nature always changing as well.

neither language can be superior for communication, then, and no language is better than another, just preferred or learned.

[lofight]

I have no idea of the factual accuracy of this.

It is lazy and grammatically :).

I agree. For a non native speaker he does well. Next time you can write a post in flemmish and not make a mistake maybe then you can comment.


My teacher said lettre also exists, the same with some other words than end with -ER

thanks..

either one is 'correct' in that neither are lousy or more polite.

the problem with all language is that its changes over time, and the changes happen in different areas causing several different types of growth concurrently in different parts of the country/world.

grammar only serves to try and standardize something that is always in constant flux, and only works well in some situations, and is, by itself and nature always changing as well.

neither language can be superior for communication, then, and no language is better than another, just preferred or learned.
okay.. i understand. I can believe there isn't a better one. In the normal everyday language in Belgium we make mistakes and in the Netherlands they make others..

[Macaddicttt]

Ah god no! I had a huge argument with an American guy who swore that American English was a different language and was not a dialect (which it obviously is).

Actually, according to linguists, American English isn't even a different dialect. It's not different enough to be considered one.

[richkent72]

Lettre does appear in the Oxford English Dictionary, but only because it is used in certain French phrases used in the UK (in the same way that some Latin phrases are used in the UK). It is however not an English word and to teach this as an alternative spelling of 'letter' in English is totally incorrect.

[lofight]

Lettre does appear in the Oxford English Dictionary, but only because it is used in certain French phrases used in the UK (in the same way that some Latin phrases are used in the UK). It is however not an English word and to teach this as an alternative spelling of 'letter' in English is totally incorrect.

Really, if this is true, my teacher really isn't a good teacher. He says that all English speaking people use lettre, but that it's changing to letter..

[Queso]

What's this British English thing? I speak English, from England. It's not quite the same as English as spoken in Scotland or even English as spoken in Wales. Therefore there is no British English.

I don't mind the American one though. It's completely understandable, although they do tend to speak frustratingly slowly :p

[Abstract]

English.

I hate American English. However, I detest Australian English even more. It just sounds like a lazy English accent. American sounds different entirely.

[riscy]

I prefer Brit English - the original.

[PlaceofDis]

Actually, according to linguists, American English isn't even a different dialect. It's not different enough to be considered one.

its quite similar, given there is basically a few grammar differences (very few mind) and some spelling differences.

the major change is accents. which has little impact on how the language is written.

[Cromulent]

Really, if this is true, my teacher really isn't a good teacher. He says that all English speaking people use lettre, but that it's changing to letter..

Haha. I've never ever seen anyone spell letter as lettre unless they were dyslexic. Maybe they did back in 1100 or something after the Norman invasion when the national language was French but not for a good few hundred years :).

[lofight]

What's this British English thing? I speak English, from England. It's not quite the same as English as spoken in Scotland or even English as spoken in Wales. Therefore there is no British English.

I don't mind the American one though. It's completely understandable, although they do tend to speak frustratingly slowly :p

I shall change this in my original post, but it was just to show the difference..

English.

I hate American English. However, I detest Australian English even more. It just sounds like a lazy English accent. American sounds different entirely.

yeah, australian is pretty lazy and funny too hear..

ey "MATE" :p
Haha. I've never ever seen anyone spell letter as lettre unless they were dyslexic. Maybe they did back in 1100 or something after the Norman invasion when the national language was French but not for a good few hundred years :).
:p pretty funny my teacher believes this..

[devilot]

I'm so disappointed in all of you.

I can't believe nobody suggested Engrish (http://www.engrish.com/). :(


It's completely understandable, although they do tend to speak frustratingly slowly :p Wait, seriously?

[lofight]

I'm so disappointed in all of you.

I can't believe nobody suggested Engrish (http://www.engrish.com/). :(


Wait, seriously?

:p i still prefer normal English :p

you see this Engrish alot it illegal dvd's

[biturbomunkie]

american english ftw! i mean, wth is a-lu-mini-um? ;)

americans ain't lazy, our english is just clear and direct.

[devilot]

:p i still prefer normal English :p No way, then you don't get gems like this (http://www.engrish.com/detail.php?imagename=written-oath.jpg&category=Instructions&date=2002-10-23). :D Or this (http://www.engrish.com/detail.php?imagename=trush-trush-trush.jpg&category=Containers&date=2007-04-11). Ha, or this (http://www.engrish.com/detail.php?imagename=a-good-time.jpg&category=Containers&date=2005-11-13) one. :p


Okay okay, last one (http://www.engrish.com/detail.php?imagename=mrfriendly.jpg&category=Containers&date=2004-09-27) I'll post. :D

[kretzy]

Hey! What's with all the anti-Aussie sentiment? :mad:

Nah, I can't blame you...I hate our accent as well. :D I'd like to think my accent is fairly neutral, but its hard to tell. I was quite surprised that while in the US a lot of people thought I was British.

That aside, I definitely prefer British English, both in written and spoken form.

[Cromulent]

american english ftw! i mean, wth is a-lu-mini-um? ;)

americans ain't lazy, our english is just clear and direct.

It is al-u-min-e-um (phonetic spelling). Not a-lu-mini-um :).

That Engrish site gave me a chuckle at work.

[Cabbit]

Prefer Scottish english to my posh english i use when im abroad. But to tell the truth american english is the closer to colonial english than the english them guys south of me speak.

At least in a pub abroad i can speak with americans, french, germans, welsh, irish and just about everyone else except someone form england will be the only person not to understand me.

[Queso]

Nah, I can't blame you...I hate our accent as well. :D I'd like to think my accent is fairly neutral, but its hard to tell.
Melburnian accents are funny. I love the way it always goes up at the end of a sentence. Everything sounds like a question :D

At least in a pub abroad i can speak with americans, french, germans, welsh, irish and just about everyone else except someone form england will be the only person not to understand me.
Has it ever occurred to you that they're just more polite than we are? :)

[sunfast]

And how well do you write Belgian?

Flemish ;)

Unless lofight is from Wallonia of course.

[lofight]

Flemish ;)

Unless lofight is from Wallonia of course.

:p it's flemish, i speak flemish.

[skyrider007]

British! :)

[foidulus]

Have to go with British English if only because the slang is so much cooler.

There are just so many awesome words that we don't use in the US :p

[Tom B.]

My favourite is English English, but as for American English, it can be good (New York), or completely ****ing awful (Alabama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cScZFAqsn6M)), or somewhere in between. I prefer Australian accents to most American accents too.

P.S.

British = Aluminium

American = Alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooominum

[sunfast]

:p it's flemish, i speak flemish.

Of course, Antwerp should have given away a Vlaanderen. Silly me :o

[lofight]

Of course, Antwerp should have given away a Vlaanderen. Silly me :o

:) there isn't a Antwerp in Wallonia..

[faintember]

I prefer "American" English, preferably with a southern dialect. It is a part of my roots, and despite what Top Gear may lead people to believe, it is possible to retain a southern, American English and still be intelligent. I would say that a Scotch English accent would be my second favorite.

[psychofreak]

BBC English wins every time :)

[fuzzwud]

British English makes me sleepy when I listen to it over the radio or TV. I don't know why but when I was in Hong Kong, the only channel I understood was BBC. But then, maybe watching the news is boring too.

[yojitani]

Whoa! There are so many Englishes that only giving two is...pointless. American and British English in themselves don't even mean anything. Within the States there are so many different versions of English... And then there's New Zealand, Australia (which I know has at least one other English spoken by the inhabitants of Darwin:D), South Africa, India, Kenya, Pakistan... you get the picture.

[nbs2]

And how well do you write Belgian?

Flemish ;)

Gah! I start reading the thread, see the former, read the rest of the thread, excited that nobody bothered to correct him, and BAM! There it is. I'm so sad.

I find that speakers in the United States are more apt to adhere to original pronunciation than those in the UK. Of course, there are plenty of Americans that butcher other languages (and citizens of the various countries of the UK who don't), so this isn't a hard and fast rule. But, it is something I've noticed in living on both sides of the pond.

[Doctor Q]

Brits put punctuation that is not part of a quotation outside the quotation. That's so logical that it settles the whole language-preference issue for me, right then and there.

So what if they stick extra vowels in words like color? I don't see that many colors anyway.

[xUKHCx]

So what if they stick extra vowels in words like color?

Well technically you omit them but on this note we all had to use American to get on this site MacRumo(u)rs

[ErikCLDR]

Doesn't really matter, either way is considered to be correct.

[paddy]

What, no one suggested Irish-English!?! :p

Irish-English example: "How do you know him? We would have been in school together".

Correct English translation: "We went to school together"

Nice. :o

[Prof.]

I'm a US American and I prefer (British) English. Mainly cause I am obsessed with the English culture. And lets face it, the Brits are better:D Isn't that right, xUKHCx?

I LOVE ENGLISH PEOPLE:cool:

Colour
Favourite
Neighbour

Ooo - and their accents, I LOVE English accents. If an English person talks to me, I melt.

[skwij]

I'm British-born, but have been in Canada since I was 5.

I spell with all the extra vowels, and the "funky" spellings like aluminium, tyre, and -ise on the ends of some words, rather than the "American" -ize.

It drives me completely bonkers to see "American" spelling at some Canadian-based websites I visit, and on more and more signs. It also drives me nuts that I have to deliberately misspell colour in order to change the colour of text in message boxes ;) .

I see it as just more "proof" of the Americanisation of Canada.

[ChaePod]

I live in NZ so I'm used to british english, so i guess that would mean i prefer it over american english :p

But people in NZ don't have British accents...

Well technically you omit them but on this note we all had to use American to get on this site MacRumo(u)rs

LOL I kept going to a site that told me "error" when i first started visiting this site... then i realised that it was because i added the "u"... now i just click it from my bookmarks :D

[Much Ado]

What's this British English thing? I speak English, from England. It's not quite the same as English as spoken in Scotland or even English as spoken in Wales. Therefore there is no British English.

We all learn Queen's English to write, which I guess is British English.

[Marble]

I'm quite fond of some of the developments in American-style punctuation. There's something idiosyncratic but also elegant in the period placement that I quite like.

[Applespider]

Really, if this is true, my teacher really isn't a good teacher. He says that all English speaking people use lettre, but that it's changing to letter..

As others have said, lettre isn't used but I'm wondering if it was just a badly chosen example - or a misunderstanding in your notes since British English does use metre rather than the American meter, centre rather than center, litre rather than liter.

There are some fascinating books out there on the historical of different dialects of English - both within the UK and between the UK and North America.

[themadchemist]

I'm so disappointed in all of you.

I can't believe nobody suggested Engrish (http://www.engrish.com/). :(



All your grammar are belong to us.

[gnasher729]

Really, if this is true, my teacher really isn't a good teacher. He says that all English speaking people use lettre, but that it's changing to letter..

I have never, ever seen anyone using the spelling "lettre" instead of letter in England. I think your teacher is confusing this with other words like centre and metre.

[Music_Producer]

I think the OP meant litre/liter. Not letter/lettre.

I prefer British English (isn't that like saying english english? :p) The language used in the United States is atrocious.. you see spelling errors everywhere, even in major newspapers, magazines, etc. Don't even get me started on how the average person spells.

My realtor can never say 'Realtor' .. she always says "Relator"

I saw a real estate office once.. with the title "Reality Estate Services" instead of Realty!

[sananda]

I would say that a Scotch English accent would be my second favorite.

scotch? that would be whisky or eggs not an accent.

[shu82]

My favourite is English English, but as for American English, it can be good (New York), or completely ****ing awful (Alabama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cScZFAqsn6M)), or somewhere in between. I prefer Australian accents to most American accents too.

P.S.

British = Aluminium

American = Alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooominum

You have to really try to get yourself surrounded by rednecks nowadays. Easy on Bama. Its home to a lot of us here. Also, I find New York english absolutely dredful. LA is about perfect American English. (as long as you don't go to a Mall or ask a Mexican)

[ghall]

I prefer British English. Though I write in American English by habit, and because I'll get grilled by teachers and such.

[RHD]

As others have said, lettre isn't used but I'm wondering if it was just a badly chosen example - or a misunderstanding in your notes since British English does use metre rather than the American meter, centre rather than center, litre rather than liter.

There are some fascinating books out there on the historical of different dialects of English - both within the UK and between the UK and North America.

I think that's because all those words are derived from the French who do the thing with the reversed 're' and your teacher is totally wrong. There isn't now, nor ever has been, any spelling of the word "letter" as "lettre" in the UK.

[skunk]

letter is lettre in British EnglishI think you mean "litre" as opposed to "liter". :)

Oh, I see I've been beaten to it by at least two others... :p

[twistedlegato]

Yo dog da American Englash is where it is at!
:D

[PlaceofDis]

I think that's because all those words are derived from the French who do the thing with the reversed 're'.

indeed.

English is made up of basically three languages, although two dominate more: French, German, and Latin.

Germanic speakers created the dominate portion of the language, but the Norman invasion injected a good deal of French into it as well. during the Norman reign, the germanic portions of the language were for the lower class while the aristocracy used French. naturally they intermingled. and the class difference can still be seen in some cases where we have two words for the same thing, one french, one german. the german is typically considered the 'cruder' version overall. latin came into play due to the church and its widespread use of written works since they could afford it, but its not felt much today.

[themadchemist]

Brits put punctuation that is not part of a quotation outside the quotation. That's so logical that it settles the whole language-preference issue for me, right then and there.



This is one matter of style that leaves me torn inside. This issue is my Martin Luther. ;)

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

Of course people are going to prefer their own, and of course more people on this site are going to prefer british over american because the people on these forums are like 90% British/Australian/New Zealander or otherwise Europeans that learn british english in school.

I don't know how spelling words differently makes Americans lazy. We're lazy for other reasons. If our language is lazy, the brits' is pretentious.

[skunk]

during the Norman reign, the germanic portions of the language were for the lower class while the aristocracy used French.The nicest example is in the realm of food, where meat "on the hoof" is called by the Saxon name (pig, cow, sheep) because the serfs herded the animals, whereas by the time it had been butchered and presented to the Norman aristocracy as cooked food, it had acquired a French name (pork/porc, beef/boeuf, mutton/mouton).

[PlaceofDis]

The nicest example is in the realm of food, where meat "on the hoof" is called by the Saxon name (pig, cow, sheep) because the serfs herded the animals, whereas by the time it had been butchered and presented to the Norman aristocracy as cooked food, it had acquired a French name (pork/porc, beef/boeuf, mutton/mouton).

easily one of the best examples. thank you, i was coming up with a blank for examples. :D

[sananda]

Yo dog da American Englash is where it is at!
:D

fo shizzle.

[Prof.]

fo shizzle.

Fo shizzle mah nizzle.... wait.... *thinks about it*......never mind.:p

[davidjearly]

I prefer Scottish English.

As others have pointed out, there isn't enough poll options. The Scots, Irish, Welsh and English all have their own versions withinbthe UK.

However, ours is the best.

[Brianstorm91]

Americans are adept at butchering a great language in one fell swoop; the opening of the mouth.

Americans often omit words such as "that", "which", and "who", for example; "The language which I study" becomes "The language I study", and to me this is irksome at the best of times.

The lacadaisical culling of vowels is absurd, and often words' origins are obliterated by incorrect pronounciation: "chassis" is to be said sha-see; a word of obvious french origin.

I've also noticed how the intonation and complexity of the average American's sentences is, somewhat poorer than that of which I'd like to hear; "Um"s and "Er"s are, in the most part, thoroughly irritating.

I'm sure there's a lot more that I could mention but I believe it to be wrong that international students should be taught American English; I spend enough time correcting chinese students at college when they mention "sidewalk" or "soccer" as it is, thankyou very much!

[Hello.there]

it's just a simple fact of life: the Irish speak the best English on the planet. :)

[skunk]

Americans are adept at butchering a great language in one fell swoop; the opening of the mouth.

Americans often omit words such as "that", "which", and "who", for example; "The language which I study" becomes "The language I study", and to me this is irksome at the best of times.

The lacadaisical culling of vowels is absurd, and often words' origins are obliterated by incorrect pronounciation: "chassis" is to be said sha-see; a word of obvious french origin.

I've also noticed how the intonation and complexity of the average American's sentences is, somewhat poorer than that of which I'd like to hear; "Um"s and "Er"s are, in the most part, thoroughly irritating.

I'm sure there's a lot more that I could mention but I believe it to be wrong that international students should be taught American English; I spend enough time correcting chinese students at college when they mention "sidewalk" or "soccer" as it is, thankyou very much!Your critical post is, unfortunately, replete with basic errors which rather negate your point. Lackadaisical, pronunciation, French, that of which I'd like to hear, in the most part, Chinese, thankyou. Try a lower horse.

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

Americans are adept at butchering a great language in one fell swoop; the opening of the mouth.

Americans often omit words such as "that", "which", and "who", for example; "The language which I study" becomes "The language I study", and to me this is irksome at the best of times.

The lacadaisical culling of vowels is absurd, and often words' origins are obliterated by incorrect pronounciation: "chassis" is to be said sha-see; a word of obvious french origin.

I've also noticed how the intonation and complexity of the average American's sentences is, somewhat poorer than that of which I'd like to hear; "Um"s and "Er"s are, in the most part, thoroughly irritating.

I'm sure there's a lot more that I could mention but I believe it to be wrong that international students should be taught American English; I spend enough time correcting chinese students at college when they mention "sidewalk" or "soccer" as it is, thankyou very much!

Languages are constantly changing, and when people are isolated their language changes in different directions. Because we do things differently doesn't make it "wrong," "lazy," or "butchering." We realize that there are words that simply aren't needed in sentences, so we take them out. Sounds efficient to me! "Um" and "Er" aren't part of the language. They're sounds people make when they're nervous and thus cannot think straight. I'm so sorry we use different words than you too. How foolish of us.

[sananda]

Americans are adept at butchering a great language in one fell swoop; the opening of the mouth.

Americans often omit words such as "that", "which", and "who", for example; "The language which I study" becomes "The language I study", and to me this is irksome at the best of times.

The lacadaisical culling of vowels is absurd, and often words' origins are obliterated by incorrect pronounciation: "chassis" is to be said sha-see; a word of obvious french origin.

I've also noticed how the intonation and complexity of the average American's sentences is, somewhat poorer than that of which I'd like to hear; "Um"s and "Er"s are, in the most part, thoroughly irritating.

I'm sure there's a lot more that I could mention but I believe it to be wrong that international students should be taught American English; I spend enough time correcting chinese students at college when they mention "sidewalk" or "soccer" as it is, thankyou very much!

i don't think you should be correcting anyone. your english isn't very good.

[Rodimus Prime]

Ah god no! I had a huge argument with an American guy who swore that American English was a different language and was not a dialect (which it obviously is).

As for which is best, I dunno but I hear American women love English accents. I think I'll head over their and try unleash some of that home county English charm :).

I'd just be happy is if American English was classed as international English rather than British English which should just be refered to as English.

There is some truth to the guy saying American English is a different language. More he got fact confused with a theory.
The school of though is if it was not for mass media given another 100 years or so American English and British English would be classified as 2 different laungages.

It was in the 1700's that American English and British English split. American English has other influence on it language that British English did not have. Most of it because American is the melting pot of the world.

Hell even in the US we have a wide range of accents. The British accent to me is a lot easier to understand than lets say a Boston or a New York Accent.

[GSMiller]

I prefer a variant of the two. I like some British spellings (colour, grey) while i detest others (tyre) and even though spoken British sounds nice, I find myself listening to the accent too much and not what's actually being spoken.

...As for which is best, I dunno but I hear American women love English accents. I think I'll head over their and try unleash some of that home county English charm :)...

Yes, it's actually quite the panty dropper....erm.....knicker dropper :)

[jaded-mandarin]

i don't think you should be correcting anyone. your english isn't very good.

Whether you disagree with his opinion is one thing. But how was his English bad in that post?

I get frustrated writing on the web/word processing programs, and being told I'm spelling words like colour and centre wrong. I'm sure I have British-English selected. Or as I like to call it: proper-English.

^^,

[sananda]

Whether you disagree with his opinion is one thing. But how was his English bad in that post?



as previously mentioned he can't spell lackadaisical and pronunciation. also "than that of which I'd like to hear" is not a correct construction.

[jaded-mandarin]

Word doesn't consider it a fragment which/that needs reversing. I'll go with them.

[PlaceofDis]

Word doesn't consider it a fragment which/that needs reversing. I'll go with them.

and word is always right? i find it to be in error more often than not to be honest.

[faintember]

scotch? that would be whisky or eggs not an accent.I was under the impression that it was a valid term, although using the phrase "scottish" english would probably make more sense. Scotch means "of Scotland" IIRC.

[sananda]

I was under the impression that it was a valid term, although using the phrase "scottish" english would probably make more sense. Scotch means "of Scotland" IIRC.

it is valid just rather out of date: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch.

[faintember]

it is valid just rather out of date: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch.Yet still correct...

Edit: I am not trying to split hairs, rather just explaining my original word choice, which, given the content of this thread, should be tolerated/accepted.

[sananda]

Yet still correct...

yes. but i wouldn't use it if you meet anyone scottish as it's considered pejorative.

[stenoboy]

Being British, I prefer British English (or English-sounding English) because it's my mother tongue.

I find it interesting how, in the last 20 years or so, Americans seem to be changing their vowels, particularly with regard to foreign words, extending the vowels or over emphasising them. For example, I used to hear "Mazda" pronounced "Mehzda" but now it's "Maaaaahzda". Likewise "pasta" was pronounced "peeyasta" (say it quickly!) but now it sounds more like "pos-ta".

The worst I heard was Bree van de Kamp on Desperate Housewives saying "ree-ZOE-toe" for "risotto". All the vowels in that word are traditionally short and I'd never heard it pronounced like that by an American before. Is America undergoing a vowel shift of some kind?

However, I LOVE the way Americans play with language, and often are more concise because of it.

The one thing I could never understand was when American friends would say "When you get back, write me." And I'd wait a few seconds for them to finish the sentence. When they asked me to respond, I'd ask them, "Write you what?" In the UK, you'd say, "Write me a letter sometime."

The thing, though, that makes me laugh is the American expression "horseback riding". Where else do you ride a horse FFS?!

[sananda]

I find it interesting how, in the last 20 years or so, Americans seem to be changing their vowels, particularly with regard to foreign words, extending the vowels or over emphasising them. For example, I used to hear "Mazda" pronounced "Mehzda" but now it's "Maaaaahzda". Likewise "pasta" was pronounced "peeyasta" (say it quickly!) but now it sounds more like "pos-ta".

The worst I heard was Bree van de Kamp on Desperate Housewives saying "ree-ZOE-toe" for "risotto". All the vowels in that word are traditionally short and I'd never heard it pronounced like that by an American before. Is America undergoing a vowel shift of some kind?


i've noticed that too. it only seems to apply to foreign sounding words.

[Virgil-TB2]

Which english do you prefer? ... Another useless poll. Perhaps MacRumors could give a short course in polls or something? Moronic. :mad:

[Peterkro]

To my sensibilities Irish English is the most agreeable and expansive. What I don't like is the media driven push to have all English a hotch-potch of mainly American derived words that are pounced on by those wanting to be considered cool and up to date resulting in only a universal indicator of morons . I like 'strine kiwi septic and all the other variations of English, keep them all I say just don't try for a homogenised world English.

[kkb]

I'm American, but I love the English pronunciation. It just seems more expressive to me.

For instance, to hear an American say "You bas*ard" (or from New York, where I'm from, "Yoo Bastid") just sounds kind of course. But to hear someone English say "Yew Bahhhstard!" sounds impressive.

I also like the sound of Scottish English. Does anyone remember a movie from Scotland that came out around 5-6 years ago about a 16 year old kid who wanted to buy a mobile home for his mother to live in with him and started dealing drugs? The Scots accent was so strong in that movie that it was subtitled (at least here in the U.S.) But I loved listening without looking and trying to understand them.

[Virgil-TB2]

I prefer Brit English - the original.Agreed.

However, if I had one wish in regards the English language it would be that people stop referring to English as "British English" or even "International English." It makes it sound like a variant or a dialect when it isn't.

English is English. It has rules and a structure and it has bodies authorised with documenting and maintaining that structure.

"American English" *is* a variant/dialect and changes much more frequently. Pronunciation rules either don't exist or are highly variable. Then after a few years of pronouncing a given word incorrectly, the spelling is altered to reflect the "new" pronunciation. :rolleyes:

I blame 100 years of that stupid "sound it out" instruction that teachers give kids in North America.
They might as well purposely teach kids to pronounce things incorrectly. Oh, wait ... they are! :mad:

[Peterkro]

Although generally speaking American English has changed much less than English many American variations were the common usage in 18th century England but are now archaic there.

[gkarris]

Were do the Brits get "Leftanant" from "Lieutenant"?

If it's "shedule" then it's "shool" instead of "skool"... :p

Why do people call us "Americans"? Except for the Caribbeans, EVERYONE in this hemisphere is an "American" (North, Central, South).

I just saw "Atonement" - great movie, but couldn't understand what they were saying sometimes, accents too thick and didn't know the idioms...

Where do accents come from anyways?

[stenoboy]

I'm American, but I love the English pronunciation. It just seems more expressive to me.

For instance, to hear an American say "You bas*ard" (or from New York, where I'm from, "Yoo Bastid") just sounds kind of course. But to hear someone English say "Yew Bahhhstard!" sounds impressive.

I also like the sound of Scottish English. Does anyone remember a movie from Scotland that came out around 5-6 years ago about a 16 year old kid who wanted to buy a mobile home for his mother to live in with him and started dealing drugs? The Scots accent was so strong in that movie that it was subtitled (at least here in the U.S.) But I loved listening without looking and trying to understand them.
Aye, right, I think it was "Sweet Sixteen" right enough.

[theBB]

letter is lettre in (Britis)h English, same with other words but this is changing says my teacher english..

There might be a liter vs. litre, but not letter vs. lettre. :)

[cogsinister]

What's this British English thing? I speak English, from England. It's not quite the same as English as spoken in Scotland or even English as spoken in Wales. Therefore there is no British English.

I don't mind the American one though. It's completely understandable, although they do tend to speak frustratingly slowly :p


My English from Manchester is totally different from the English spoken an hour East in Liverpool !!!

[zap2]

I like American English, because I was raised with it. But the idea that people using it are lazy, is true for speaking(personally I think the way we speak cuts down on unneeded rules)
Write, I'd guess it depends on who is writing it. But it isn't build from the ground up to be writing with mistakes.


But honest, I think they're both fine, and the difference are small.

[Macaddicttt]

Agreed.

However, if I had one wish in regards the English language it would be that people stop referring to English as "British English" or even "International English." It makes it sound like a variant or a dialect when it isn't.

English is English. It has rules and a structure and it has bodies authorised with documenting and maintaining that structure.

"American English" *is* a variant/dialect and changes much more frequently. Pronunciation rules either don't exist or are highly variable. Then after a few years of pronouncing a given word incorrectly, the spelling is altered to reflect the "new" pronunciation. :rolleyes:

I blame 100 years of that stupid "sound it out" instruction that teachers give kids in North America.
They might as well purposely teach kids to pronounce things incorrectly. Oh, wait ... they are! :mad:

That's ridiculous. There are no "authorised" (or authorized) bodies that maintain English. First of all, authorized by whom? Second of all, what are they? American English is not a variant of the "original." Who's even to say what the original is? As people have very nicely pointed out, the English in England isn't very standardized.

At one point, English was "standardized" by the queen's (or king's) English, but that's pretty arbitrary. After all, the English imported German royalty. Are we to base English on them? That is where we got the incorrect pronunciations of "neither" and "either" with a long i sound. Pronouncing them n-eye-ther and eye-ther is following German rules, not English ones.

I'm not saying either English is better (although I prefer American English due to it's more consistent pronunciation and spelling, more succinct diction, and greater preservation of the subjunctive), but to claim that British English is somehow the "authoritative," "regulated," "approved," or otherwise "more correct" English is ridiculous.

[TimJim]

Well, English is English, there is no different types.

But with accents, i like American accent, cause i'm American.

Also there is subsets of the accents. Brits have different ones all over, same with Americans (different states and what not)

[Gelfin]

Frankly, I would hesitate to express such a broad preference, particularly with such limited choices. It should be noted that the right speaker can make almost any accent appealing.

To those Brits who say, "we invented it," surely you recognize that dialects drift over time as well as geography. If one accepts Midwestern and RP as exemplary of American and British English respectively, then the common ancestor of the two sounds nothing like either.

At the time American English diverged from English English, a rhotic variant was considered proper in England, and that accent formed the basis of American English. Non-rhotic English emerged later in England, and was widely imitated in the southeastern United States, resulting in the smooth "genteel" southern accent that many people still associate with the South, but few still speak.

My understanding is that hearing "proper" English as spoken in the 18th century would require traveling to extreme rural North Carolina, if I recall correctly, where an obscure remnant of that accent can still be found in use, or could. The ubiquity of television is crushing regional accents mercilessly.

But why stop at any particular point? Elizabethan speakers would sound more than a bit hickish to modern RP speakers, but they're closer to having "invented it" than anyone today. Perhaps Middle English would be better? Plant a stake anywhere you like; people will sound different a hundred years hence.

[Macaddicttt]

But why stop at any particular point? Elizabethan speakers would sound more than a bit hickish to modern RP speakers, but they're closer to having "invented it" than anyone today. Perhaps Middle English would be better? Plant a stake anywhere you like; people will sound different a hundred years hence.

Actually, Middle English would be older than Elizabethan English. Elizabethan English is considered "Early Modern English." Middle and Old English are two languages that are completely different than Modern English. Old English looks more like German, and is completely unintelligible to us. Middle English is slightly better, but still extremely difficult to understand.

[Gelfin]

For instance, to hear an American say "You bas*ard" (or from New York, where I'm from, "Yoo Bastid") just sounds kind of course. But to hear someone English say "Yew Bahhhstard!" sounds impressive.

As an aside, for my money nobody delivers this particular expression like a Scot. I remember overhearing a Dean at my college, who happened to be Scottish, yelling this at someone on the telephone as I sat outside waiting to humbly beg his permission to change majors. I was terrified.

Actually, Middle English would be older than Elizabethan English.

That's what I meant. If we care about "original" English, why not go back as far in time as we can while still maintaining somewhat recognizable English? If you strain you can sort of make sense of Sumer Is A-Cumin In or The Canterbury Tales, so we could certainly revert to that if we conclude that "original" implies "superior."

[CalBoy]

I decided not to vote in the poll since it's too black and white for me. :o

In terms of everyday usage, I speak American English (or rather English with an American [and more specifically a Californian] accent).

However, if you were to ask me which accent is "superior" I'd have to vote for "British" hands down.

Then again Scottish, Irish, Australian, and Kiwi accents are all great. :cool:

It's our American accent that is epic fail. :p

[jb60606]

I work with about 16 Brits at work and all but one has jokingly criticized my use of the English language on at least one occasion.

At least I think they did... because, honestly, half the time I can't understand a ****ing word they're saying. I just smile, nod my head, give them a sarcastic double thumbs up, then walk away mumbling swear words under my voice in my thick Brooklyn accent.

It was even worse when I visited our main office in Ireland.

In all honesty - we Americans murdered the English language, but they need to get over it already. American English is here to stay.

And we're not renaming our version of football either. :p

Peace

[MacSamurai]

And we're not renaming our version of football either. :p


educate yourself on the use of the word football (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=423107&highlight=american+football)

[Macaddicttt]

That's what I meant. If we care about "original" English, why not go back as far in time as we can while still maintaining somewhat recognizable English? If you strain you can sort of make sense of Sumer Is A-Cumin In or The Canterbury Tales, so we could certainly revert to that if we conclude that "original" implies "superior."

My mistake. I misread. :o

Now that I understand what you meant, I agree completely. :p

[jb60606]

educate yourself on the use of the word football (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=423107&highlight=american+football)

I'm plenty educated on it. Thanks

[Doctor Q]

Do people in the U.S. flyover states speak Middle English? ;)

[LizKat]

Couldn't vote on the poll... have heard too many dialects of both that seemed close to incomprehensible and plenty that are just irritating.

I was asked in Louisiana once if I wanted a glass of water with my meal and someone had to translate the question for me, the waitress' accent was so thick. Once I got that translation, I could understand almost everything else she said. Talk about rosetta stones.

In upstate New York near the city of Rochester, they make one-syllable words with a flat a in them (like "back" or "rack") into excruciating, invented diphthongs like "beeeyak". I will not live long enough to get used to that.

So with those two examples you'd think I could vote for the British English but I've heard enough dialects of that to realize that not everyone sounds like a BBC newsreader. Anyway some Brit dialects are much more interesting to me but might strike a Brit the way Bronx English strikes some Americans.

In American speech, I do love hearing the little regional giveaways and the even odder constructions that individual people tack into their speech. A friend of one of my brothers uses "or what" as a kind of filler expression instead of the much more common "you know".

He'll say something like "So then this guy just takes, or what, his hammer and pounds the nail straight in as if he didn't even, or what, hear me tell him to check the alignment first." Where he got "or what" from is beyond me, not that "you know" is such a choice bit of filler.

[kkb]

Aye, right, I think it was "Sweet Sixteen" right enough.

That's it. Good movie.

[Badandy]

I prefer to hear someone speak English who is from London than from someone who resides in California or New York. I like the sound more and I think it's an awesome accent. I will assume, however, that this is due to it being 'different' than what I have grown up with.

And while our English (American version) may not be the original English, that in itself doesn't make some of its speakers less articulate or linguistically competent, so stop with the feelings of superiority.

[me_94501]

Being British, I prefer British English (or English-sounding English) because it's my mother tongue.

I find it interesting how, in the last 20 years or so, Americans seem to be changing their vowels, particularly with regard to foreign words, extending the vowels or over emphasising them. For example, I used to hear "Mazda" pronounced "Mehzda" but now it's "Maaaaahzda". Likewise "pasta" was pronounced "peeyasta" (say it quickly!) but now it sounds more like "pos-ta".

The worst I heard was Bree van de Kamp on Desperate Housewives saying "ree-ZOE-toe" for "risotto". All the vowels in that word are traditionally short and I'd never heard it pronounced like that by an American before. Is America undergoing a vowel shift of some kind?

Oh, there are vowel shifts going on in various regions in the country. For example, California:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_English

[c-Row]

I know mine is probably a strange mix of british and american, but given the choice, I prefer listening to the sound of British English.

[bartelby]

Should the choices not be:

English
or
American?

[és:]

There is no 'British English'. It's called English.

I prefer English over lazy bastardized [sic] versions.

[me_94501]

There is no 'British English'. It's called English.

I prefer English over lazy bastardized [sic] versions.

Well, for the sake of clarity and habit...

Both Americans and Britons refer to their repsective mother tongue as "English," after all.

And just because the variation of English I speak is different does not make it "lazy." There is "proper" American English and "improper" American English, and what is considered proper is ever-evolving.

[bigandy]

There's a well put together article on Wikipedia about the differences between the two dialects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_differences), and another decent one on spelling differences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences).

From around 1600, the English colonization of North America resulted in the creation of a distinct American variety of English. Some English pronunciations and words "froze" when they reached America. In many ways, American English is more like the English of Shakespeare than modern British English is.

Some expressions that the British call "Americanisms" are in fact original British expressions that were preserved in the colonies while lost for a time in Britain (for example trash for rubbish, loan as a verb instead of lend, and fall for autumn; another example, frame-up, was re-imported into Britain through Hollywood gangster movies).

Spanish also had an influence on American English (and subsequently British English), with words like canyon, ranch, stampede and vigilante being examples of Spanish words that entered English through the settlement of the American West. French words (through Louisiana) and West African words (through the slave trade) also influenced American English (and so, to an extent, British English).

;)

I'm all for calling the Americans lazy ( :p ), however I'd have to say that, in my view, American English retains more similarities to "Modern English" (circa 1800), than British English does - which brings us to the logical conclusion that American English is more established than British, in their most modern forms.

[Ish]

Flemish ;)

Unless lofight is from Wallonia of course.

I stand corrected! :)

nbs2 Gah! I start reading the thread, see the former, read the rest of the thread, excited that nobody bothered to correct him, and BAM! There it is. I'm so sad

Hhrmph!
I see you've all been talking about me while I was asleep! And all I wanted to do was defend the poor poster who got picked on!! :p ;)

lofight sorry, but as i said, i'm not that well in English, the 4 years I learned English were when i was between 4 and 8..

Don't apologise. The comment was aimed at people being critical of people's posts when they're not writing in their native language. You're doing great. :)

[lofight]

As others have said, lettre isn't used but I'm wondering if it was just a badly chosen example - or a misunderstanding in your notes since British English does use metre rather than the American meter, centre rather than center, litre rather than liter.

There are some fascinating books out there on the historical of different dialects of English - both within the UK and between the UK and North America.

he gave some other too, but also lettre..

I have never, ever seen anyone using the spelling "lettre" instead of letter in England. I think your teacher is confusing this with other words like centre and metre.

He really said lettre, and it stood on our papers while he was explaining it.

I think the OP meant litre/liter. Not letter/lettre.

i don't mean litre, i really mean lettre, it was in our papers while he was explaining it.

I think you mean "litre" as opposed to "liter". :)

Oh, I see I've been beaten to it by at least two others... :p

again , i mean lettre.

Another useless poll. Perhaps MacRumors could give a short course in polls or something? Moronic. :mad:

i don't find this useless. Already 6 pages have been written with interesting discussions..

There might be a liter vs. litre, but not letter vs. lettre. :)

probably...

[jaded-mandarin]

American English for the main part decides to re-write words so the practitioners can put less effort into speaking/reading/writing.

Changing words so that they spell as they're pronounced. Which I guess is efficient, but none the less lazier. I think American-English could be considered a harsh statement, a bleak evaluation of the American public, and the fact that they doubt the general public has the intelligence to read a work and understand it's true pronunciation, in the split second of time from reading to speaking.

Eg:

Color,center,donut,mom,realize,liter.

Each one just a simplified version of the original, edited to ensure that people don't get it wrong, when if they had two braincells to rub together, they wouldn't in the first place.

[WinterMute]

There is no 'British English'. It's called English.

I prefer English over lazy bastardized [sic] versions.

So why spell "bastardised" incorrectly then?;)

[yellow]

Each one just a simplified version of the original, edited to ensure that people don't get it wrong, when if they had two braincells to rub together, they wouldn't in the first place.

Wow.. thanks for the massive generalization of the entire American populace based upon your pedantic notions of Americanized English.

[ezkimo]

American English for the main part decides to re-write words so the practitioners can put less effort into speaking/reading/writing.

Changing words so that they spell as they're pronounced. Which I guess is efficient, but none the less lazier. I think American-English could be considered a harsh statement, a bleak evaluation of the American public, and the fact that they doubt the general public has the intelligence to read a work and understand it's true pronunciation, in the split second of time from reading to speaking.

Eg:

Color,center,donut,mom,realize,liter.

Each one just a simplified version of the original, edited to ensure that people don't get it wrong, when if they had two braincells to rub together, they wouldn't in the first place.

That is probably the most pretentious thing I have ever heard.

Also one of the least thought out.

[RHD]

Wow.. thanks for the massive generalization of the entire American populace based upon your pedantic notions of Americanized English.

Actually it is quite interesting how American English and UK English have evolved in different directions over the last few hundred years. Some things that are considered correct in America but wrong in the UK are in fact old English which was considered perfectly acceptable everywhere in the 18th century. For example "gotten". "Gotten" isn't considered correct in the UK now but it is in America. It was perfectly correct in the 18th century it just got dropped from usage in the UK and continued in America.

I really wish the wretched Word spell check would use correct UK English after you have set it to that option instead of continuing to use the American version. There seems to be no difference at all between the US spell check and the UK one. It's rubbish.

[Badandy]

Americans are adept at butchering a great language in one fell swoop; the opening of the mouth.

Clever. No, but really, just because it's different doesn't mean it's incorrect.



The lacadaisical culling of vowels is absurd, and often words' origins are obliterated by incorrect pronounciation: "chassis" is to be said sha-see; a word of obvious french origin.

The word originally is from Latin, with a hard "c" up front.

I've also noticed how the intonation and complexity of the average American's sentences is, somewhat poorer than that of which I'd like to hear; "Um"s and "Er"s are, in the most part, thoroughly irritating.

Because there are no uneducated people in England? In all honest, this is true, a lot of people have trouble with articulation in America. The didn't read enough books.

I'm sure there's a lot more that I could mention but I believe it to be wrong that international students should be taught American English; I spend enough time correcting chinese students at college when they mention "sidewalk" or "soccer" as it is, thankyou very much!

I think you said "thankyou very much" because you knew no one else would thank you for such an elitist and snobbish view of a language that has evolved differently.

I like British people for the most part, it's people like you, with your presumption of superiority, that bug me. So unless you have the verbal competency of some of the better members of your House of Commons, I'm sure even you, mighty Brianstorm, make your fair share of mistakes.

[yellow]

Actually it is quite interesting how American English and UK English have evolved in different directions over the last few hundred years.

Yes, it is interesting.

But to boil it down to "American English is stupid because Americans are stupid" is incredibly condescending and I won't read such tripe without commenting.

Just what are you people basing your ridiculous assumptions on? Television? Tourism?

[jaded-mandarin]

Wow.. thanks for the massive generalization of the entire American populace based upon your pedantic notions of Americanized English.

That is probably the most pretentious thing I have ever heard.

Also one of the least thought out.

Actually if you put your useless labels to one side and re-read, you'll see that I'm commenting on the notions of the powers that changed the word's format, as opposed to the actual general American public. I was commenting that it's unfortunate that they felt they had to change the words to simplify language for the public, when anyone with any intelligence wouldn't need this to be done for them. I'm not saying you don't have intelligence, in fact I'm more veering towards the sarcastic point that it is clear you do, hence why I see it as unfortunate that the powers that be felt the need to adopt.

But thank you both for going on the defensive immediately, criticizing it being the least though out, even though you both completley misinterpreted its point.

[maxrobertson]

Maybe as an American I'm biased, but I really dislike the overdone spellings in English especially British English. I personally think we should simplify them further because English is a very complicated language, especially if you aren't familiar with it. Why are night, light, etc spelled like that? Those extra letters don't mean anything, but I doubt that will happen.

And I don't think it's lazy at all. It doesn't make any sense for a written language to be as hard to use as English. Even people who have years of experience and aren't lazy and stupid have to remember special rhymes (I before E) to spell basic words, and that's a really stupid issue. The language should be fixed, and they did some good work a long time ago when they simplified some spellings.

Also, how the heck can you say that spelling words how they're pronounced is a bad thing? That's what a language is for: taking what could be spoken and preserving it. It shouldn't be some romanticized thing that is preserved long after people have realized its flaws. English evolved from a huge number of languages, and that makes it hard to master. The only reason people say it shouldn't change is because they want it that way just so they can talk down to people.


As for which is best, I dunno but I hear American women love English accents.

Ha, yeah American women love accents in general. I think Spanish is considered the sexiest.

[Brianstorm91]

I think you said "thankyou very much" because you knew no one else would thank you for such an elitist and snobbish view of a language that has evolved differently.

I've the feeling that it may well be an English idiom, but I can't disagree; I do make mistakes, but it still remains that interjections aren't my most favoured of words.
In response to the poster who mentioned the two English dictionaries in Word: I agree: the differences seem to be few and far between, at least in my version.

[yellow]

even though you both completley misinterpreted its point.

Which appears to be that you are obviously right, and all dissenters are wrong?

No, I definitely got the point.

I was commenting that it's unfortunate that they felt they had to change the words to simplify language for the public, when anyone with any intelligence wouldn't need this to be done for them.

Who the hell is this "they"? So there was an American Powers That Be conspiracy that dumbed down the language sufficiently for the illiterates and uneducated? Ah-ha. I bet that's never happened anywhere else in the world, with any other culture or language.

So, borrowing your argument, what stops me from saying that the (UK) English of today is incorrect because of it's divergence from Middle English? Or further afield (and further into ridiculousness) all languages that borrow their roots from Latin?

[ezkimo]

Actually if you put your useless labels to one side and re-read, you'll see that I'm commenting on the notions of the powers that changed the word's format, as opposed to the actual general American public. I was commenting that it's unfortunate that they felt they had to change the words to simplify language for the public, when anyone with any intelligence wouldn't need this to be done for them. I'm not saying you don't have intelligence, in fact I'm more veering towards the sarcastic point that it is clear you do, hence why I see it as unfortunate that the powers that be felt the need to adopt.

But thank you both for going on the defensive immediately, criticizing it being the least though out, even though you both completley misinterpreted its point.

Reading your original post it comes across that simplification, for the sake of efficiency or to make things more clear, is worse. How is changing spelling from colour to color for the sake of clarity and efficiency lazy. The logic is faulty.

[Gelfin]

I saw a parody piece once in which an English man working in the U.S. begs Americans to stop stereotyping him on the basis of his accent. He couldn't cope with everyone simply assuming he was intelligent and refined no matter how much he tried to insist and demonstrate he was neither. Perhaps this was on The Daily Show. I can't remember.

Regardless, say what you will about American pronunciation, but you will never hear anyone render the word "nothing" as "nuffink" on our shores.

[Badandy]

I've the feeling that it may well be an English idiom, but I can't disagree; I do make mistakes, but it still remains that interjections aren't my most favoured of words.

It is an idiom here as well, I was commenting on it as if it were not. The rest of my post still stands.

[skunk]

I would like to state here that I am appalled by the British posters above who are displaying such ignorance of their own dialect in their criticism of US English. Please allow me to dissociate myself entirely from their misplaced illusions of cultural and linguistic superiority.

[MalcolmJID]

One thing that really gets my goat that Americans say, is that they "could care less". It only gets to me because it's used at a time when they don't actually care, so to say they could care less actually implies that they do care. Argh.

"I couldn't care less!". :p



Also, no smart alecs who will post "I could care less about your post" :rolleyes:

[yellow]

One thing that really gets my goat that Americans say, is that they "could care less".

I didn't think this was strictly an American verbal faux pas, but it bugs me too.
There's plenty of odd things that have slipped into (American) English.

Such as pronouncing prescriptions (that you get at the Pharmacy) as "perscriptions". Wrong, but just about everyone does it.
I think it's an example of how a dialectal anomaly spreads and becomes rote speech.

[themadchemist]

I would like to state here that I am appalled by the British posters above who are displaying such ignorance of their own dialect in their criticism of US English. Please allow me to dissociate myself entirely from their misplaced illusions of cultural and linguistic superiority.

Misplaced illusions of superiority?! From the British?! Nooo, it couldn't be! ;)

[Silver-Fox]

british english, just the way the Americans spell the words differently

[Cromulent]

Such as pronouncing prescriptions (that you get at the Pharmacy) as "perscriptions". Wrong, but just about everyone does it.
I think it's an example of how a dialectal anomaly spreads and becomes rote speech.

I've never understood why Americans use the term script either. Surely it is not that hard to say prescription?

[themadchemist]

I've never understood why Americans use the term script either. Surely it is not that hard to say prescription?

It's really more of jargon that I usually here only among health care workers. I don't know too many outside the health care field who say "scripts." And as for why folks do it within health care--well, medicine loves jargon and abbreviations. :)

[skunk]

I've never understood why Americans use the term script either. Surely it is not that hard to say prescription?"Script" was a term in common usage among British junkies back in the 70s - not that I ever used it as such, of course...

Misplaced illusions of superiority?! From the British?! Nooo, it couldn't be! ;)I meant "misplaced" only in the case of those casting the aspersions, of course. :)

[Doctor Q]

This is the month that I spend talking back to the TV every time I hear "February" pronounced "Feb-you-ary". Do Brits mispronounce this word as often as Americans?

[MacNut]

The American version has evolved over time while the British version has stayed the same. In a way I think a lot of the old english words are out of date.I've never understood why Americans use the term script either. Surely it is not that hard to say prescription?Next time I write a movie prescription I will say it right.:p I have never heard anyone say script for any other reason then for a movie.

[skunk]

The American version has evolved over time while the British version has stayed the same. In a way I think a lot of the old english words are out of date.Not really. As has been mentioned above, US usage in many cases is more archaic than UK usage, being derived directly from 16th century English in comparative isolation.

[MacNut]

Not really. As has been mentioned above, US usage in many cases is more archaic than UK usage, being derived directly from 16th century English in comparative isolation.The American language has a lot of slang in it that the British don't use.

[skunk]

Fo' shizzle.

[MacNut]

Fo' shizzle.Dude, that is wack.

[motulist]

Should the choices not be:

English
or
American?

There's no such thing as American English. The US is the size of a zillion different European countries put together. So you have southern english, midwestern english, eastern english, west coast english and probably more. And they're almost as distinct from one another as American english is from British english.

Here's just a samaple of a single word difference to give you an idea.

http://www.popvssoda.com/

[RHD]

Yes, it is interesting.

But to boil it down to "American English is stupid because Americans are stupid" is incredibly condescending and I won't read such tripe without commenting.

Just what are you people basing your ridiculous assumptions on? Television? Tourism?

I didn't say that at all! I said it was interesting how the language had evolved differently. Neither is right or wrong they are just different. The dialects and spelling have evolved differently just as French has in France, Canada and other French speaking countries and I bet Spanish has in Spain, Mexico and other Latin countries but I don't know enough about it.
Language evolves differently from country to country and in the UK from city to city. It changes with the requirements of the people using it.
No one version is better than any other.

Anyone remember the old song: "you say tomato and I say tomato?, let's call the whole thing off"?

[Blue Velvet]

What I find interesting is words that are spelled the same but pronounced differently... e.g. roof, route.

[deputy_doofy]

Being American, I prefer American English, but I'm definitely fascinated with the British Form.

Americans definitely seem lazy, considering how many posts show:
- there, their, they're - all being used interchangeably
- it's and its - again, being used interchangeably
- then and than
- who's and whose
- lose and loose

Obviously, the list goes on, but usually, when I see these errors, they are Americans destroying English.

[skunk]

Obviously, the list goes on, but usually, when I see these errors, they are Americans destroying English.You are being over-generous to my sloppier compatriots to the detriment of your own. There are plenty of Brits who can hardly string two words together.

[deputy_doofy]

You are being over-generous to my sloppier compatriots to the detriment of your own. There are plenty of Brits who can hardly string two words together.

I'm not saying that it's only Americans, but heck, most of the people I know don't know the difference. I feel like a grammar snob, sometimes. As for spelling, I'm more lenient about that. I know some intelligent people that can't spell for anything.

[QuarterSwede]

You are being over-generous to my sloppier compatriots to the detriment of your own. There are plenty of Brits who can hardly string two words together.
People around the world are just plain getting lazy. Don't just peg it on Americans.

[smokeyrabbit]

I'm not saying that it's only Americans, but heck, most of the people I know don't know the difference. I feel like a grammar snob, sometimes. As for spelling, I'm nore lenient about that. I know some intelligent people that can't spell for anything.

Clearly...

edit: nice quick edit!

[Blue Velvet]

The point is moot. We all know the best English is written and spoken by New Zealanders. ;)

[yellow]

I didn't say that at all!

I know you didn't, you had quoted my response to what someone else said, to which I was still mostly steamed about.

I think that some people (outside the US) are forgetting that there are 300 million people in the US. If one sees a doofus on television talking about how his 'trailuh done blowed awah', that's hardly putting it's finger on the intellectual pulse of the entire population of the US.

For argument's sake, if the % of idiots in the US was equal to the % of idiots in the UK, wouldn't a single TV show looking for interviews be 5 times more likely to find an idiot in the US? What makes better television? A Harvard educated lawyer whose roof collapsed on his multi-million dollar home, or the unemployed guy whose trailer blew up because he was cooking meth?

[ucfgrad93]

I said American English because I am American.

[MalcolmJID]

This is the month that I spend talking back to the TV every time I hear "February" pronounced "Feb-you-ary". Do Brits mispronounce this word as often as Americans?

This is unfortunately how I've always pronounced it. :p:confused:

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

This is the month that I spend talking back to the TV every time I hear "February" pronounced "Feb-you-ary". Do Brits mispronounce this word as often as Americans?

According to the Oxford Dictionary, Febyooary is the common pronunciation in all English dialects. It came to be because pronouncing the "R" is difficult and sounds weird. The process is "dissimilation." And also according to the Oxford, there's a process called "analogy" in which a member of a series, being "January" here, affects the pronunciation. It even lists Febyooary before Febrooary. Besides, don't some brits take "R"'s out of pretty much every word?

[skunk]

Besides, don't some brits take "R"'s out of pretty much every word?Only those with a speech impediment.

Don't just peg it on Americans.You must have misread my post. :confused:

[Gelfin]

The point is moot.

And here's where I've got to suggest you double-check your dictionary.

Of course it's moot. We've been proving that for seven pages now. :)

[QuarterSwede]

Only those with a speech impediment.

You must have misread my post. :confused:
Oh sorry, I didn't mean you even though it reads that way. :o

[Peterkro]

"Script" was a term in common usage among British junkies back in the 70s - not that I ever used it as such, of course...



Also in use in New Zealand in the mid sixties (or so I've been told :o )

[Rodimus Prime]

people bash English all the time but the funny part is all versons of English are changing and becoming simpler.

A good example is look at German. They have 3 forms of you. They are all used differently. English USED to have 3 forms of you in it. But over time it goes simplified.

People bash it but English being simplified is not a bad thing. It has I think over 4 times as means words in it that other languages like French and German.

As some one else pointed out English is a messed up language to begin with and is considered to be the hardest language to learn. Reason for it is because of the huge amount of words and very messed up grammer rules. There are expections to every rule we have which most langauges do not have.
On top of that English is a dual based language which makes it even harder to learn. It grammatical rules and its base are not very compatible.

As for British and American versions that is what happens when each on is given a few 100 years on its own to evolve and change. American English is not a less pure version of English. British English is not any better heck it is even worse. It has changed a lot over the years to not be a very pure language either. American English is closer to the 16th century than British English is.

[kockgunner]

I don't know where to begin... I don't know any Americans who are "laisy". Nor do I know anyone, anywhere who says things that aren't "grammaticly" right.
:D

I agree with the "British English" being the more correct version since it is the "original" one (I'm from Canada btw). One might also note however that when British singers sing, their accent is gone. But, I think the ungrammatical correctness is due to the evolution of the language. It's much easier to say "That's the lamest thing I've ever heard of" than, "That is the lamest thing of which I have ever heard" (since one is not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition). It's also due to the English language itself which has borrowed words from many other languages making the structure less "robust". Unlike English, French (which I'm studying) is much more conservative and the whole language would fall apart and be really awkward if one were to end a sentence with a preposition for example.

[skunk]

Unlike English, French (which I'm studying) is much more conservative and the whole language would fall apart and be really awkward if one were to end a sentence with a preposition for example.It's not unheard of to finish a French sentence with avec, but the language still has not fallen apart, as far as I'm aware.

[Macaddicttt]

I agree with the "British English" being the more correct version since it is the "original" one (I'm from Canada btw). One might also note however that when British singers sing, their accent is gone. But, I think the ungrammatical correctness is due to the evolution of the language. It's much easier to say "That's the lamest thing I've ever heard of" than, "That is the lamest thing of which I have ever heard" (since one is not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition). It's also due to the English language itself which has borrowed words from many other languages making the structure less "robust". Unlike English, French (which I'm studying) is much more conservative and the whole language would fall apart and be really awkward if one were to end a sentence with a preposition for example.

I think your whole "original" argument has been blown out of the water by numerous other posters, so I won't talk about that. I just wanted to note my surprise that this is still being said despite lots of evidence to the contrary posted above.

I did want to comment on the false rule that you can't end a sentence with a preposition. It's not an English rule, it's a Latin rule, brought over to the English language by linguist snobs in the 17th and 18th centuries. They were trying to make English "better" by making it conform to a "better" language. As Winston Churchill famously said, "This is the sort of English up with which I will not put."

And to continue further, I think it's silly to prefer either American or British English as better because of irrelevant things such as which is the "original" or who follows prescriptive "rules" more. If you prefer one or the other, it shouldn't be based on such arbitrary judgments. What are you using as a reference point to say which is more "correct"?

I prefer American English because of stylistic reasons. I think that American English is much more standardized in terms of pronunciation and spelling. I think that if you pronounce "schedule" with an sh at the beginning, then you should pronounce "school" the same way. And correct me if I'm wrong (and I might be), but I'm pretty sure the last syllables of "honor" and "regulator" are pronounced the same way, yet the British spell one "-our" and the other "-or." And again, why do the British use the French spelling of "liter" ("litre") and not the French spelling of "letter" ("lettre")?

I also prefer American English due to its greater maintenance of the subjunctive, which I feel is stylistically better. Borrowing the example from the Wikipedia article, a brit would more likely say, "They suggested that he should apply for the job," instead of, "They suggested that he apply for the job." Although to be fair, the subjunctive is tragically in decline on both sides of the pond. If only the English-speaking populace were more interested in diction...

[Blue Velvet]

And here's where I've got to suggest you double-check your dictionary.

I respectfully suggest that you triple-check yours. The word has more than one meaning.

[és:]

So why spell "bastardised" incorrectly then?;)

I'm not really sure what you mean, are you joking even though you know what '[sic]' means or don't you realise what it means?

I'm sure it's the former, I just want to check.

[Gelfin]

I respectfully suggest that you triple-check yours. The word has more than one meaning.

Indeed it does, but you still misunderstand the usage. "Moot" is indeed sometimes used correctly to indicate that it is pointless to debate a topic further. However, the specific implication is that the issues are so unclear and inconclusive as to render debate pointless since no conclusion can be achieved in any case. Declaring an issue moot and then offering a conclusion is simply self-contradiction.

The common misuse of the word "moot" results from people hearing the overused secondary meaning and misunderstanding it without appreciating the nuance that directly relates it to the main definition. There is no alternate definition of "moot" that is opposite in meaning to the main definition.

[Mindflux]

The one that doesn't have all the unnecessary vowels.

[dukebound85]

I prefer Brit English - the original.

I prefer American, and from that the southern variety

there are many types of American English within America

[yellow]

The one that doesn't have all the unnecessary vowels.

Woohoo! Arabic FTW! :)

[themadchemist]

Woohoo! Arabic FTW! :)

Arabic? Really? I thought it had vowels, but the Eastern European languages were the ones with a bit of a deficiency in those.

[Dagless]

English is from England, is it not? Then again Americanese doesn't have a nice ring to it. Americanish? I even go so far as to use gaol and similar proper words.

What gets my goat is when Americans use words like addicting and the phrases "Could care less" and "Got X?".

[yellow]

Arabic? Really? I thought it had vowels, but the Eastern European languages were the ones with a bit of a deficiency in those.

Hmm.. I though Arabic had very few vowels.. to wikipedia! :)

Ah.. only 3 vowels in Arabic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language#Vowels

[PlaceofDis]

Arabic? Really? I thought it had vowels, but the Eastern European languages were the ones with a bit of a deficiency in those.

eastern European languages tend to have more iirc.

[floriflee]

There probably aren't many vowels in that clicking tongue language.

And where's the option for "I don't have a preference"??

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

English is from England, is it not? Then again Americanese doesn't have a nice ring to it. Americanish? I even go so far as to use gaol and similar proper words.

What gets my goat is when Americans use words like addicting and the phrases "Could care less" and "Got X?".

Brits need to lighten up. I'm actually amused and sort of glad that we can irk you people so much by speaking. I mean, don't get me wrong, I find brits pretty annoying, but you guys take the cake in the up-tight contest.

I would welcome renaming our dialect "American." That way you people couldn't complain that we're "abusing" "your" language.

Then again, you brits are right. Languages should never change and the entire western world should still be speaking Proto-Indo-European, because face it, English is just the bastardization of one of the many dialects of Middle German and that German is the bastardization of a more ancient German and that German is the bastardization of PIE. Latin and all of its derivatives are likewise bastardizations of the same. Silly us! The entire western world simplified PIE! You know Latin and ancient German had noun declensions that English doesn't have at all and PIE had even more! The entire western world is lazy for doing so. Now, let us all sit in our corners and think about what we did and how inferior we were to our ancient tribal ancestors.

[iKwick7]

there are many types of American English within America

O my there certainly are! Southern, West/East Coast, Boston English (crazy people!!)- heck, even North New Jersey and South New Jersey sound and talk different (damn jimmies, they are called sprinkles!!!!).

I prefer British English, or English, as I do believe it's called. You also have cooler words and phrases. And that accent. Mmmmm.

I also love fish and chips. And pubs. :)