Apple Continuing Work on Mac OS X 10.5.2. 9C27 Seeded.

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Despite hopes for an imminent release, it appears Mac OS X 10.5.2 is not yet ready for public consumption. Last week, Apple released a couple of seeds with "no known issues", but apparently has continued to work on the latest Leopard release.

Today, Apple provided developers with the 9C27 but the seed notes reportedly references an old build, so the exact changes to today's build are unknown.

Apple released (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/15/apple-releases-first-leopard-update-10-5-1/) the first Mac OS X 10.5 update (10.5.1) only 3 weeks after Leopard's initial launch. 10.5.2 has been particularly anticipated as it introduces a some interface changes (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/24/mac-os-x-10-5-2-inches-closer-build-9c23-seeded/) along with the usual bug fixes.

Of note, the just-released MacBook Air ships with a version of Mac OS X 10.5.1.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/31/apple-continuing-work-on-mac-os-x-10-5-2-9c27-seeded/)

[0racle]

Now I know they're teasing.

[G4DP]

They love the attention, we are to blame, checking software update all the time.

It's ready, they are just being cruel.

[forafireescape]

Note to Apple: hurry up. Thanks :)

[simmorya]

Im hoping they're adding a few nice surprises for us.

[jonny]

I'm still looking at the stars and hoping for a gpu update which *might* let me play a videogame or two on mbp. :(

[Cabbit]

i hope they spend as much time as needed, even a another month if need be to make leopard blow tigers stability out the window. Mind them old powermac G5 ads so much power it will blow you away or something like that. Let them take as much time as it takes and with luck it will be a great build.

[stoutboy1]

I hope they can get rid of this blue screen problem... take your time (but hurry up) just get it right.

[Techguy172]

I'm somewhat happy to see progress but it still is bugging me that it takes so long it's getting to be ridiculous.

[stoutboy1]

Im hoping they're adding a few nice surprises for us.


The chanes of that and us not hearing about them, thats very unlikley.

[Neil321]

i hope they spend as much time as needed, even a another month if need be to make leopard blow tigers stability out the window. Mind them old powermac G5 ads so much power it will blow you away or something like that. Let them take as much time as it takes and with luck it will be a great build.


Have to agree with some of this,but what about people with
serious issues like wifi dropouts

[pyramid6]

Grrrr.

P6

[newtech]

"... take your time, hurry up, choice is yours, don't be late ..."

[RevToTheRedline]

I can wait.

[fastbite]

Bring it on!!!

[incoherent1]

Im hoping they're adding a few nice surprises for us.

It's those "Top Secret Features" from last year. ;)

[cms2]

is it typical for Apple to release updates so quickly/frequently? Or is this more a matter of Leopard being a relatively big update and so requiring some immediate tweaking? Just sort of curious, if this resembles users' past experience with, say, Tiger (which I only got to know for a couple of months or so before Leopard).

[flopticalcube]

See you next Tuesday.

[kabunaru]

Do you think Apple might release Mac OS 10.5.2 tomorrow?

[gnasher729]

Now I know they're teasing.

But who is "they"? Whoever tells you about 10.5.2 is either in breach of an NDA, or has heard it from someone who is in breach of an NDA, or has read about it on a website that got information from someone who is in breach of an NDA.

[Thi]

Have to agree with some of this,but what about people with
serious issues like wifi dropouts

Its been getting progressively worse for me!

[Macintosh Man]

I was hoping this would be released tomorrow but it looks like the earliest I can expect this is some time next week. People are experiencing serious bugs with Leopard so I hope they release 10.5.2 by next week.

[skyrider007]

This sux!

[bearda]

i hope they spend as much time as needed, even a another month if need be to make leopard blow tigers stability out the window. Mind them old powermac G5 ads so much power it will blow you away or something like that. Let them take as much time as it takes and with luck it will be a great build.

Suit yourself, I want AirPort fixes NOW. I've already reformatted one machine (my G4 mini) back to Tiger as my wireless internet connect became totally unusable for long transfers. If it doesn't come out soon I'm going to be doing the same with my iBook, since I've had no issues with the mini since Tiger went back on.

I don't care if 10.5.2 is the update to end all updates or not. I just need the fixes to make Leopard usable now. If 10.5.3 is the one that fixes the little annoyances (couldn't care less about the menu bar or stacks) in another few weeks I'd be fine with that. Until they do I consider Leopard a dud for me, at least.

[hhaeschen]

Im hoping they're adding a few nice surprises for us.

As long as it's taking them I am beginning to hope for Mac OS 11 ("Eagle")... :rolleyes:

[bilbo--baggins]

If 10.5.2 is stable and sorts out all of the bugs it will be worth the wait. My Leopard experience so far has made me reconsider upgrading on the day of release in future.

Lets hope 10.5.2 marks the real completion of Leopard - finally ready for prime time.

[hodgjy]

The first 10.5.1 update was quick because 10.5.0 was done, put on DVDs, and installed on new Macs for sale long before the release date. Apple had added time to work on 10.5.1 instead of just the appearance of three weeks. I would hardly call 10.5.2 a "quick" update. It's taken a while to get right, which is a good thing. I have mixed emotions if 10.5.0 was released too early or not. Most bugs are found out in the wild and not in programmers' computer labs. This is why many companies do beta testing. However, Apple only seeds their builds to developers and does not do public beta testing very often (Safari 3 was a rare case). So, yes, Leopard did have many bugs. Could they have all been caught in the computer lab before shipping Leopard to the public? Only Apple knows this, but I'm pretty confident many bugs popped up that Apple never anticipated.

10.5.2 needs to get pushed out soon because there are many lingering bugs in Leopard. Are they show-stoppers? Not for most, but they still are annoying nonetheless.

The same thing happened with Tiger 10.4.0. I got it the minute it came out, and there were quite a few bugs in it. However, I'm sure the same scenario applied to that as I discussed above about 10.5.0.

is it typical for Apple to release updates so quickly/frequently? Or is this more a matter of Leopard being a relatively big update and so requiring some immediate tweaking? Just sort of curious, if this resembles users' past experience with, say, Tiger (which I only got to know for a couple of months or so before Leopard).

[Roy Hobbs]

Take your time Apple, all of my Macs are running flawlessly with 10.5.1

I would rather see it wait then released too early

[MacsRgr8]

"... take your time, hurry up, choice is yours, don't be late ..."

Mac Nirvana? :)

[darthraige]

Wonderful. Best news all day. lol

[W1LLk]

Note to Apple: hurry up. Thanks :)

good to hear more news, I was tweaking.

[riversky]

Basically I am beginning to think that this will not be released until the AppleTV software update is ready and perhaps the MacBook Pro revision is out. I think we are a couple more weeks away. Perhaps early March!

[tothelimit]

Do you think Apple might release Mac OS 10.5.2 tomorrow?

it doesn't seem very likely at all. i mean, if they're seeding a new build today - i don't see it being ready for mass distribution tomorrow. just not enough time. i guess we won't be seeing it until sometime next week :(

[Kilamite]

Yup, now sounds like Tuesday 5th February is going to be the imminent release.

Tomorrow (Friday) would be nice, give the weekend some relaxation knowing my Mac works even better. But there you go.

[CLuv]

Makes no sense, so all the people that need the ability to do a remote install off of a CD or DVD with their MBA are out of luck and may have to wait close to a week?

[MrT8064]

My mac seems to work pretty well,

my airport takes about 1min to connect to my netgear router, but once connected can say connected for days... it would be great if apple could sort this out, be it driver or OS related.

[Kar98]

*snap*

There, I'm insane now. :eek:

[zoozx]

Hurry your ass up apple,
i have a bunch of issues with 5.1 and calibration software that doesn't work with broken parts in X.5.1 .....!
:mad:

[Charliekid21]

Its been getting progressively worse for me!

me 2!!!!!!!

[hodgjy]

For the nth time (not directed at you, but the concept in general), all MBAs come with an install DVD to set up sharing with Macs and PCs. They don't need 10.5.2 to share, but I'm sure 10.5.2 adds what's already on the MBA DVDs.

Makes no sense, so all the people that need the ability to do a remote install off of a CD or DVD with their MBA are out of luck and may have to wait close to a week?

[ntrigue]

Does every ADC Member receive a link to these seeds?

On another note, I am 100% satisfied with 10.5.1...I have, however changed the dock myself...and can't recall what the original looked like ;)

[CLuv]

hodgjy, thanks. Other sites I've read made it sound like 10.5.2 was needed in order for remote CD/DVD.

Looks like they'll be fine then.

[abijnk]

Makes no sense, so all the people that need the ability to do a remote install off of a CD or DVD with their MBA are out of luck and may have to wait close to a week?

It says that the MBAs are shipping with a version of 10.5.1. That means that they will have their own special version of that release to be able to handle the special features such as remote disc.


Has Apple released updates the day after seeding before?

[gugy]

I hope they take the time to get it right.
Better than release an update that has tons of bugs.

[uberjason]

Patiently waiting... waiting... waiting... Come on Apple!

[clockworkorange]

Anyone else notice that in Tiger, the Quicktime Movies used to play in the Dock, But in Leopard when you minimized videos you only hear sound but when looking in the dock, the video is frozen? (or is it just my computer?)

I remember seeing the keynote where Steve Jobs talks about putting Video playback in the Dock... Did he forget all about that in Leopard? :( I miss it.:(

[rish]

I've had no issues with Leopard its been fine. However I have a friend who has had prolems. His Bose Companion 5 speakers don't seem to work in garage band. Anyone else here have that problem.

Regarding the Leopard update, I would much prefer extensive testing prior to release therefore happy to wait a lot longer.

[richard.mac]

well its great that they have seeded another build. it shows that Apple really wants this update to add the right features and be very stable. but come on Apple! i predict 10.5.2 will be available this Tuesday.

^^ you heard it first from me!

[bearda]

Does every ADC Member receive a link to these seeds?

On another note, I am 100% satisfied with 10.5.1...I have, however changed the dock myself...and can't recall what the original looked like ;)

Only the higher levels of ADC membership that you pay for.

[ghall]

Aww, c'mon already! Teasing us with those iWork and iWeb updates, GAH!!! :mad:

[Rocketman]

hodgjy, thanks. Other sites I've read made it sound like 10.5.2 was needed in order for remote CD/DVD.

Looks like they'll be fine then.

The way OSX works, that impacts maybe 2-3 applications/processes. Most likely Apple will fade that in at the same time as 2 dozen other updates and bug fixes. Given the rate at which Apple is adding actual capabilities to OSX, Steve seems to have a plan and road map.

Rocketman

[cms2]

Anyone else notice that in Tiger, the Quicktime Movies used to play in the Dock, But in Leopard when you minimized videos you only hear sound but when looking in the dock, the video is frozen? (or is it just my computer?)

I remember seeing the keynote where Steve Jobs talks about putting Video playback in the Dock... Did he forget all about that in Leopard? :( I miss it.:(

DVD video freezes when I minimize it, though the audio keeps going. I was wondering about that... I thought I remembered hearing that video kept playing in the dock.

[Kilamite]

DVD video freezes when I minimize it, though the audio keeps going. I was wondering about that... I thought I remembered hearing that video kept playing in the dock.

Well, last time I checked, when I play videos I tend to have them full screen so I can see them rather than stuck in the Dock.

Video playback when minimized to the Dock isn't really an issue, come on!

[Bonsai1214]

thats good, at least we know what they're up to now. so we won't have people crying and whining about it. oh wait..

[shadowfax]

I would guess they will have it coincide with the "official" retail launch of MBA. Here's fingers crossed for tomorrow....

[Eagle101]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3A109a Safari/419.3)

i have it. And no i am not joking.

[ipedro]

I bet this is behind the :apple:TV delay. 10.5.2 seemed imminent just last week and I suspect that :apple:TV Take 2 relies on 10.5.2.

Take2 seemed feature complete and pretty reliable @ MacWorld so I don't think that's the angle that needed work, it was the OS side.

Here's to hoping that once 10.5.2 hits, :apple:TV's update will become available as well.

[MacSKY]

I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with Apple! As a recent Mac "newbie" (switched from Windows about 12 months ago) I was assured by all of my "MacHead" friends that I would never have issues like the ones I'm experiencing right now if I used Apple Computers. Well I made the switch and I have been loving it until I upgraded to Leopard about a month ago.

As a photographer, I didn't upgrade until I saw that Photoshop CS3 was compatible. I'm not sure what Adobe's meaning of compatible is, but CS3 is horribly buggy in Leopard on my iMac allum 24".

As far as my MacBook is concerned, my wireless connection is horribly unstable in Leopard. I took it to a Mac Genius just to rule out hardware issues. The "Genius" told me they (Apple) are aware and are working on it. "Any day now" he assured me.

I know this is going to crawl under the skin of many of you in this forum, but maybe Apple could take a page from Microsoft and release "Hot Fixes" as Microsoft likes to call them for specific urgent issues. And I consider the wireless issue I'm having with my MacBook urgent. I understand that my issues with Photoshop don't effect the majority on this list so why should you have to wait for a fix for this.

I'm forever on the Mac platform and have not regretted my switch in the slightest. And I'm looking forward to my new MBP (Once new ones are released) and Mac Pro once I save a little more! I would say that my Macs function almost at 100% since upgrading all of them to Leopard. But I certainly have learned that when it comes to upgrading the OS, all of these companies are alike and all should wait for the first updates to make sure the system is a stable OS. Especially if you're like me and depend on your computers to make a living.

[iBunny]

I dont have any issues at all with 10.5.1

So, Im not too worried. Im just hoping with all the fixes this update brings, that it dosent break something else that works fine now.

[mike12806]

No problems on Airport here with my white 20 inch core 2 duo imac on 10.5.1....and im using an airport extreme bridge and a linksys business vpn router.

[wkkschb]

i hate the fact that the leopard doesn't save the view settings and always applies the view settings as a default.

fix this ~ it is so annoying!!

[justflie]

Yup, now sounds like Tuesday 5th February is going to be the imminent release.

What a super tuesday that will be :)

[Kilamite]

i hate the fact that the leopard doesn't save the view settings and always applies the view settings as a default.

fix this ~ it is so annoying!!

You need to click "Use as Defaults"

http://idisk.mac.com/ross_t/Public/view.png

[bacaramac]

Well, just to set everyone straight, they seeded this again to make sure they didn't break anything after inserting code changes to accompdate the update on AEBS.

Well ok just a guess but let's hope so. :D

[shawnce]

Does every ADC Member receive a link to these seeds? No only select, premier ADC members (those accounts come with seed keys) or ADC accounts with seed keys get access to these developer previews. ...however all ADC accounts agree to the terms of the NDA when they sign up for them.

[shawnce]

Still haven't seen any Airport issues myself with Leopard and I use Airport 100% of the time on two different laptops (including doing large downloads and constant data streams, aka voip/video). Seems like it may be specific to those using bit-torrent clients...

[Neo110503]

i have a prediction, tomorrow will be friday february first. And there will be 29 days this month.

[dummptyhummpty]

I keep wanting to say 2 weeks, but I know none of you will get it.

I'm not sure why i'm waiting for 10.5.2....

[newtech]

Mac Nirvana? :)

"Nevermind", "Come as you are!" 10.5.2




"... Come as you are, as you were, as I always wanted you to be ..."

[goodcow]

With $16 billion in cash laying around $teve needs to expand the engineering teams.

[kaiwai]

I hope they can get rid of this blue screen problem... take your time (but hurry up) just get it right.

What blue screen? the one which is caused by incompatible third party hackware?

[TheSpaz]

Excellent.... more waiting... :(

[kaiwai]

It's those "Top Secret Features" from last year. ;)

Can't be any worse than the non-existent features which users were sucked into purchasing Windows Vista Ultimate.

[kabunaru]

What blue screen? the one which is caused by incompatible third party hackware?

I think he means a blue tint that has plagued Mac OS X since Mac OS 10.4.8. ;)

[mike12806]

I think he means a blue tint that has plagued Mac OS X since Mac OS 10.4.8. ;)

No tint here.....

[eXan]

The Leopard release was delayed for almost half a year. We all waited and nobody died.

Now people people can't wait a little more for a x.x.2 update :rolleyes:

[kabunaru]

No tint here.....

Well, there was a tint on my display ever since Mac OS 10.4.8. Leopard didn't solve the problem. :(

[SheriffParker]

I want it.

[bearda]

Still haven't seen any Airport issues myself with Leopard and I use Airport 100% of the time on two different laptops (including doing large downloads and constant data streams, aka voip/video). Seems like it may be specific to those using bit-torrent clients...

Not really. My Mac Mini G4 couldn't keep a wireless connection running with just iChat and Google Notifier running. Every time I wanted to use the machine I'd have to manually connect to the wireless network (which was in the auto-connect list) and if I was lucky it would give me an IP. Otherwise I'd have to reboot the machine and tell the firewall to allow mDNSresponder and configd again before the network connection would come up. Connecting to an AEBS, too, so there's no reason it shouldn't be a supported configuration.

I have no doubt that some AirPort connections are working great, and more power to you. Most of us that are having issues would like a fix sooner rather than later, though.

[madmax_2069]

I would rather see Apple take their time and get this right then rush it out and introduce a new set of issues and be more buggy then it is now. perfection takes time and people need to learn to wait, cause we are all in the same boat.

speaking about boats, pretend this 10.5.2 update is like you taking a boat to have allot of leaks fixed, they do a rush job on it and you take it out and are far away from land before you realize the boat still leaks, wont you be in the same predicament as before you had it fixed. but if you took the boat to a place but this time they took their time and fixed it right and made sure its done right and you will not find any leaks when out in the water far away from land cause they fixed it right. which would you choose ?

i am not saying that the 10.5.2 will be bug free or anything, having them take their time to do it right will be allot better then them rushing it out with more bugs then before and it didn't fix a thing.

[twoodcc]

dang, i thought it'd be out by now. hopefully soon

[roland.g]

It would be nice to see it by Tuesday if not sooner.

[kaiwai]

Well, there was a tint on my display ever since Mac OS 10.4.8. Leopard didn't solve the problem. :(

What blue tint? give us a screenshot!

If you're getting 'tinting' then maybe you should take it to the local Apple store to get it checked out - you know, as part of you warranty, something you should have done instead of waiting till now (and most likely outside your warranty period).

[a1016neo]

Apple take your time. Don't rush theses things. Fix as many bugs as you can and make leopard more stabled.

[Analog Kid]

Lemme guess:

About 10.5.2
This update addresses compatibility with Mac OS X.

[aiterum]

I'm hoping that it comes out before Tuesday, allowing Tuesday to be soley dedicated to the new MBP revision that was supposed to come out on the 15th :mad:

[Bluefusion]

Lemme guess:

About 10.5.2
This update addresses compatibility with Mac OS X.


About the Mac OS X 10.5.2 Update
This update addresses Mac OS X.

[mike12806]

Apple take your time. Don't rush theses things. Fix as many bugs as you can and make leopard more stabled.

If anyone from the Leopard Dev Team is actually looking at these posts and heeding advice as such...I say get back to work and finish 10.5.2! :rolleyes:

[writeous]

Dont think people mind waiting, its just seeing "Almost Here" and "Inching closer" every few days is making everyone antsy about it not being here already.

[simmorya]

COME ON APPLE!!

I have wifi problems and I need this patch now.

No known issues.

Release it and add the rest of your changes later in another update.

[Ti_Poussin]

The airport disconnection seem related to some specific hardware router chipset. I'm plague with it with my Belkin router. I have no problem at job with Linksys router. Note that I haven't any issue with Tiger or Window XP either.

If they can fix this and the damn stupid keyboard sleep that the first key press in a while don't do anything are making me crazy! I'm beginning to double press the first key on every computer I use even Linnux box that don't need it!

[BTW]

With $16 billion in cash laying around $teve needs to expand the engineering teams.

They have been and that has necessitated building a new Apple campus.

With all the profitable tech companies around them I'm sure it is hard to keep good talent.

[madmax_2069]

i thought someone boiled the wifi drop issue down to being set to a channel that was picking up interference from another wireless device or some sort of electronic interference, and changing the channel on the router fixed it

has anyone even tried this with their wifi setup to see if it helped the wifi drop issue. i experienced issues like this and it was fixed by changing the channel on the router (which disables the auto channel select on most routers, which was the issue in the first place with the wifi dropping all of the time). my router is set to channel 7 and i have not seen a single drop since then, it was set to auto.

with the router set to auto channel, when the channel changes it will drop the wifi connection and it will either reconnect or cause a issue where you have to refresh the connection. and can happen if the wifi channel is conflicting with something else you will see a drop in signal strength or it will drop the connection.

[davidmesiha]

Hey dudes,
relax, I am waiting for this update as much as the next guy, particularly since I'm a composer and video editor, I have been having a lot of issues with leopard, particularly with stupid file permissions that get completely ****ed for no apparent good reason, and a disk utility tool that doesn't work completely.
I also work at an apple store, and have seen a couple of machines (from experienced users) that were totally messed up, in one occasion whenever a folder is created, you are denied access to it (even though you are the same bloody admin user!!)
ok, but all that aside, i agree with those who say that waiting a little patiently will take us a long way to a more stable system. Also, let us not forget, how long did it take microsoft to release sp1 ? now how about sp2???????????? emm, now we see that 2 major updates for leopard within 6 months of release date is not apple taking long time.

Perhaps the latest seed addresses the huge screwup that was caused by quicktime 7.4 which has caused major trouble for professionals who work with audi and/or video. basically, very often your files that you create (audio and/or video) get locked up because quicktime thinks that they are pirate files and should have DRM. so may be (I hope) the last seed is addressing that?????
let's keep our fingers crossed and maintain solidarity rather than yell at each other, it will all be good very very soon. ;)
cheers
Dave

[simmorya]

wifi was fine for me with Tiger. now its stuffed. I have not changed the channel on it nor touched any router settings since upgrading.
It just finds my connection, then it cant find it, then finds it, then cant find it.
Annoying.

[noodle654]

This is killing me. My MBP wont wake from sleep, tried everything. WiFi is a joke. It really is.

[25ghosts]

while every one on this forum seem to be missing the important bugs like this Finder bug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEbl0egiujI

I really hope that Apple will fix this. If not - well, then their BETA testers should all be replaced immediately.
:eek:

[BWhaler]

I hate the long list of bugs in Leopard as much as the next guy, but I think Apple should take their time and get Leopard rock solid.

Leopard was pretty disgraceful at first--reflective of this horrific new level of quality out of Apple of late--and I don't want to wait until 10.5.5 until it is a reasonable OS.

So, Apple, if you are out there reading this, please take your time and make 10.5.2 the Leopard we should have received in the first place.

[madmax_2069]

wifi was fine for me with Tiger. now its stuffed. I have not changed the channel on it nor touched any router settings since upgrading.
It just finds my connection, then it cant find it, then finds it, then cant find it.
Annoying.


is the channel on the router set to auto ?

have you tried to set another channel then what was used to see if it helped or cured it ?

at first for me the default setting (auto) worked great then my wifi became unstable the sometimes would not reconnect. i found out when reading some site that something can be conflicting with the channel used for the wifi and cause the same thing.

[pyramid6]

Dont think people mind waiting, its just seeing "Almost Here" and "Inching closer" every few days is making everyone antsy about it not being here already.


Trust me we minded. Just now we have a thread. Not that we haven't started threads about our issues elsewhere.

The thing that bother me, is when they release it, I will get what I want fixed, but it won't be perfect. Other **** will break, not everyones issue will be resolved and we will be right back where we started. Except, we will have some of our issues fixed.

In conclusion, releasing it early means some issues get fixed. Waiting means no issues get fixed.

Apple screwed up, they made the patch too big. They should have released it sooner in multiple patches. Now they have an unwieldy beast that can't pass QA.

Grrrr.

P6

[mdriftmeyer]

You all sound as if you have no freaking life. The software will be released when pre-existing showstoppers are resolved and new features don't introduce any new showstoppers.

Get a life and read a book. Or if you bitch about how long it takes, shut up and go learn ObjC/Cocoa and add to the Darwin Ports projects.

[ffakr]

It's still broken. ..Doesn't affect all users but it's a big honking problem. It's something that HAVE to fix.

I'll be updating my bug report(s) tomorrow morning.
:mad:

ffakr

[dawnrazor]

No 10.5.2 today means no new :apple: MBP on Monday :(

[Macintosh Man]

10.5.1 is working almost flawlessly for me on my new MacBook with the Santa Rosa architecture and 4GB of RAM. But I'm still eager for all of the updates and goodies that will come in 10.5.2 It seems most likely that we will have this next week. :)

[teknishn]

This has to be the most ridiculous bit of whining I've heard in recent memory. It will be done when its done folks.... and Im sure it will be a great update.

In the meantime, put on a movie, have a coke, and **** ;)

[Beric]

is the channel on the router set to auto ?

have you tried to set another channel then what was used to see if it helped or cured it ?

at first for me the default setting (auto) worked great then my wifi became unstable the sometimes would not reconnect. i found out when reading some site that something can be conflicting with the channel used for the wifi and cause the same thing.

A G3 iBook, and an HP laptop work on my network with no problems. A Macbook that's 4 months old? Drops every 5 minutes. Just tonight it was continually dropping in and out for 20 minutes straight, forcing me to change computers.

[Tosser]

I don't have many problems, but I'm getting way too tired of crashes – especially Safari's and a few audio apps. Oh, and the beachballing at times.
This alone makes me want the update. And, boy, will I be dissappointed if this isn't fixed! If it isn't fixed, I will reinstall Tiger and demand my money back for Leopard. And then I'll arm myself with patience until Leopard hits 10.5.5.

I do have other problems as well - such as the mac not recognising my wi-fi network, but in comparison, and with regards to annoyance-levels, that is nothing.

[writeous]

This is killing me. My MBP wont wake from sleep, tried everything. WiFi is a joke. It really is.

Try turning off Airpot before putting it to sleep. That has been working for me.

[Mindflux]

This is killing me. My MBP wont wake from sleep, tried everything. WiFi is a joke. It really is.


Jokes on you. my wifi is fine.

Edit: My only problem is my Airport Card on my iMac will connect to my Extreme @ 2.4GHz N spec (130Mbit), once I down the interface and re-up it, it'll jump to 270. Pretty consistently. Not sure why it does that.

[queshy]

I really can't think of any good reasons as to why Apple would purposely hold back 10.5.2. They just want it to fix what they wanted it to fix. What's the big deal on waiting? At least we know they're focusing on their computer business here and not just the iPhone, haha.

Edit: my macbook pro doesn't wake from sleep sometimes too. Wonder if it's 10.5.1 related or if it's just the hardware...

[honeycrisp]

This has to be the most ridiculous bit of whining I've heard in recent memory. It will be done when its done folks.... and Im sure it will be a great update.

In the meantime, put on a movie, have a coke, and **** ;)

Yeah, I agree. If all these people think Leopard is so great, why are they dying for an update?

My machine is working like a dream. Are tons of people seriously having major issues?

[Kaptajn Haddock]

I hope they spend the extra time fixing the 'first keystroke not always registered when typing' bug on MacBook Pros. I have had this bug for almost a year now.

See more here: http://www.petergabriel.dk/mbp.html where you can read a pdf of the now deleted thread at apple discussions about the issue.

[Silentwave]

it doesn't seem very likely at all. i mean, if they're seeding a new build today - i don't see it being ready for mass distribution tomorrow. just not enough time. i guess we won't be seeing it until sometime next week :(

Really?
Don't be so sure.

Check the MR news archive.
Leopard 9B13 seeded to developers, then 9B16. On November 14th, 9B18 was seeded to developers, and on November 15th, 9B18 was released as 10.5.1

[mrfrosty]

See you next Tuesday.

Oi. That's not nice.

[wkkschb]

You need to click "Use as Defaults"

http://idisk.mac.com/ross_t/Public/view.png

doesn't this change the entire view settings for every window/folder.

i would like to have each folder a different view settings - including size of the window.

i don't think this works...well, for something so simple its so complicated in leopard.

[Stridder44]

You all sound as if you have no freaking life. The software will be released when pre-existing showstoppers are resolved and new features don't introduce any new showstoppers.

Get a life and read a book. Or if you bitch about how long it takes, shut up and go learn ObjC/Cocoa and add to the Darwin Ports projects.


I'd agree with you, but I can't say I haven't done my own fair share of whining about the MBP.

[Cubert]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3A109a Safari/419.3)

i have it. And no i am not joking.

If you have 10.5.2 running, why not give us a little feedback?

[Cubert]

This has to be the most ridiculous bit of whining I've heard in recent memory. It will be done when its done folks.... and Im sure it will be a great update.

In the meantime, put on a movie, have a coke, and **** ;)

Yeah. I did that exactly - put on a movie (Saw IV) and then got out the coke. Oh wait. Are you talking about the beverage?

[Zygon Gambit]

I think of the 10.x.2 releases as being the first releases of the operating system: certainly they're the first I would consider getting.

The more time they take with 10.5.2, the more it makes me think:
a) They're spending time to get it right, and not rushing it out to meet a particular date.
b) How much was 10.5.0 rushed to get it to meet it's (already late) deadline?

[Cubert]

doesn't this change the entire view settings for every window/folder.

i would like to have each folder a different view settings - including size of the window.

i don't think this works...well, for something so simple its so complicated in leopard.

You can set it for each window. Just use command-j and set the window, but don't set it as default. Leopard will remember the window position and the settings - unless you do a drag and drop that involves spring-loaded folders; then things get f-ed up. I'd like to see them fix that.

[mediumofmeaning]

it would be nice if 10.5.2 had had the once promised notes sync for the iphone. i think i would find myself actually using notes were that that case. i guess there's always the sdk coming.

[Cubert]

is it typical for Apple to release updates so quickly/frequently? Or is this more a matter of Leopard being a relatively big update and so requiring some immediate tweaking? Just sort of curious, if this resembles users' past experience with, say, Tiger (which I only got to know for a couple of months or so before Leopard).

This is actually a little bit slow for a .2 release. The .1 update almost always comes within 3 weeks of the initial release (usually around 2 weeks). The .2 usually comes about 4-6 weeks later (maybe 8). So, we are overdue.

And, I agree with everyone else saying that Leopard wasn't complete when it was released.

[Cloudane]

I'm glad they're trying to get it right the first time instead of messing it up and doing loads of patches afterwards. Though at this rate it'll take almost as long to release as {Windows Vista | phpBB3 | Duke Nukem Forever | insert-your-favourite-vaporware-past-or-present-here}

[MacArchi]

I personally have been through thick and thin with Apple, since the days of the Mac SE, I have seen Chips and Operating Systems come and go. Sometimes just to get things done I have had to relent and get in a few windose based machines to get the work done (when 8.5 hit the market). Apple have done us and I mean me personally a serious disservice with Leopard, the quick fix 10.5.1 underscored the significant issues. Claims that Leopard is stable are hollow and misleading. My complaint isn't that Leopard needs to be fixed and Apple are taking some time getting us there, it is that for January we have been left hanging not knowing just when this wretched 10.5.2 will materialise. Had I know that effectively I would loose the whole of January because 10.5.2 wasn't going to be ready for awhile I would have spent my Christmas holiday reinstalling Tiger on all my machines. Unlike Apple I take missed deadlines extremely seriously and because we have been fumbling around with our core production software wobbling on Leopard it has seriously undermined our business. I am not talking about some obscure third party App. Like Tosser this weekend we go back to Tiger. This nobody knows when mindset is quite perverse, for goodness sake Apple give us a date, then ship us the fixed OS on DVD, leave the bandwidth for MBA. My only conclusion is that 10.5.2 doesn't go far enough to fixing anything and Apple have painted themselves into a corner.

[NOV]

I have my Mac Pro early 2008 with Leopard now for app. 2 weeks, but it's very unstable (1 crash per hour is not uncommon). The crashing always seem to have the same pattern: some bizarre random pixel effects flashing across the screen resulting in a freeze where I can move the mouse pointer on the screen but can't click anything and keyboard doesn't respond either. So all I can do is restart the machine.

Originally I transfered my old stuff from my G5 to the MP, but after that I did a complete clean install of Leopard. Hardly have any other software installed until now.
Until now I have not seen the exact same complaints (and therefore haven't read on possible culprits or solutions either).

Maybe this weekend I'm gonna take out the extra memory (2 * 2Gb) I have bought and see how it behaves with the original 2 * 1Gb memory.
All in all very frustrating considering the excellent stability I had under Tiger...

[Kuska]

They are just waiting for all those MBA's to get out there so that all their new owners can do their first wireless update just days after receiving them. Builds confidence and reinforces the feature set. ;)

[John Purple]

Nearly everything works fine with 10.5.1. on my iMac G5 20", but there are a few things I would like to change or avoid, if someone knows how:


The Finder window pops up every time I start my Mac. That never happend with Tiger or earlier. I want the Finder window closed as default.

Every few days the Mac turns black during work as if it was shut down. After a few second it returns to life as if nothing ever happend (with the screen unchanged).

Spotlight doesn't search the whole disk anymore but only the user's folders and the application folders. E.g. Libraries are not searched, unless I change the settings for one search. It was different (=better for me) with former OSXs. I would like to search the whole disk as default.

And there is other stuff I am not happy with, but that was discussed on this site before and might be changed with the release of 10.5.2

[bmk]

...I also work at an apple store, and have seen a couple of machines (from experienced users) that were totally messed up, in one occasion whenever a folder is created, you are denied access to it...

Hey Dave, did you know that Apple employees are specifically forbidden to contribute to forums such as this? It's not just corporate paranoia - Apple doesn't want anything you say as an employee to be taken as 'official' comment from an Apple source.

If you are going to comment on this forum you should at least change the name you use so you can't be identified by your boss ;)

[onicon]

well i work for an apple retailer (not apple itself), and i have to say somtimes the bugs are apples fault, but in 99 percent of the cases (excluding broken hardware) it's some messed up system. and messed up by the user that is. latest one was some guy who claimed he could not connect to any wireless network properly, and also the system used to crash when using some programs. all he had to do is run software update (he was still using 10.4.4), worked like a charm.

[spindizzy]

I hope they can get rid of this blue screen problem... take your time (but hurry up) just get it right.

Have you tried running DMProxy? That fixes it for me.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1339816&tstart=0

[rockstarjoe]

Really?
Don't be so sure.

Check the MR news archive.
Leopard 9B13 seeded to developers, then 9B16. On November 14th, 9B18 was seeded to developers, and on November 15th, 9B18 was released as 10.5.1

Thanks, I was trying to find that too. Good to know that there is still some hope for a Friday release!

[rockstarjoe]

I think he means a blue tint that has plagued Mac OS X since Mac OS 10.4.8. ;)

I had this problem as well. This happens because there is something wrong with your default colorsync profile. Just get a different copy of the default colorsync profile from someone else and overwrite yours... it will fix the blue tint.

[anim8or]

Just a thought...

Apple could be delaying this release so they have more time to fix the quicktime update that they just released.

Not common knowledge but QT 7.4 has pretty much broken Adobe video apps (and possibly FCP) due to the new DRM part for Movie Rentals.

Apple do like to bundle important update when releasing them so perhaps this is the reason?

[MacArchi]

or i could be that they have just lost the plot...when deadlines are missed, it is a very unhealthy sign, when you don't make deadlines so you can't be accused of missing them that is hiding something..too many things not working.

[IT-Pro]

Actually, for updates like these there is no precise deadline. Because you'll never know what problems might appear.

When no problems are found in the latest seed, it's possible Apple would release the update today.

[RichardI]

Just curious (fairly recent switcher), but when they do release this update, will they publish a complete list of what's been changed?

Rich :cool:

[nikiski]

The Finder window pops up every time I start my Mac. That never happend with Tiger or earlier. I want the Finder window closed as default.

Actually that happened to me in Tiger. It was about a month after my fresh install of Tiger on a MBP. The finder just keeps popping out when I start the computer. It's annoying, but I worked around it by not shutting down. :p

[IT-Pro]

Just curious (fairly recent switcher), but when they do release this update, will they publish a complete list of what's been changed?

Rich :cool:
Yes, they will publish a list of what's been changed, at least what they've documented.

Even when Apple would release 10.5.2 today, we would not see it untill afternoon (EST), I guess. It's just half past six in Cupertino, I suppose Apple developers are still sleeping.

[cnorth3]

Apple have done us and I mean me personally a serious disservice with Leopard, the quick fix 10.5.1 underscored the significant issues. Claims that Leopard is stable are hollow and misleading.

Well, I've had five Macs running on Leopard since the day it was released, and it's been completely stable for me. That's not fanboy talk, it's just fact. So, if you want to call that a "hollow and misleading" claim, go right ahead.:)

[petvas]

Actually I haven't been having many problems with Leopard apart from:

Finder can crash or remain frozen. Restarting the process won't do anything...a reboot is needed (or logoff)
sometimes when I close a not responding app, its icon remains on the dock and the system believes its still running despite the fact that Activity Monitor doesn't display the process running! The only way to get past this is to kill the process Windowserver but that closes everything thats running..this is very annoying and wasnt there in tiger

[Kilamite]

doesn't this change the entire view settings for every window/folder.

i would like to have each folder a different view settings - including size of the window.

i don't think this works...well, for something so simple its so complicated in leopard.

It'll change the font size, whether you want it to be list view or icon view etc and make that default.

As for window sizes, if I open up Macintosh HD and make it a specific size, then close it, then reopen it; it will be the same size as what I resized it to.

However, sometimes this isn't always the case, as it forgets what size it was. But usually it remembers.

Would be nice if it got it 100% though, and the same applied to shortcuts. I have a shortcut to My Documents on my Desktop, and it never remembers the size I want for that window.

[ScifiterX]

I hope to no unknown issues turn up this time because this is *** **** torture.

[MacArchi]

Well, I've had five Macs running on Leopard since the day it was released, and it's been completely stable for me. That's not fanboy talk, it's just fact. So, if you want to call that a "hollow and misleading" claim, go right ahead.:)

We run 4 MacPros, 4MBP, 2 iMacs, consistently across the board without exception none can run Cinema 4D properly, struggle with mail, Office, Aperture and on a good day we have less then 10 system crashes, every one logged to Apple. The odd moment we could deal with. In Shake, FCP, and Vectorworks they are stable, Adobe on the other hand is a different matter. 13 months ago (over 1 year) at MacWorld os 10.5 was unveiled - today in forums all over the internet people are expressing the same frustrations regarding os 10.5. There are I am sure many who share your experience, but equally many who don't. Its not about what I call it, it is what I observe - by the size of 10.5.2 it is not a patch a fix or a updater it is a rebuild, and would not be necessary if there wasn't some fairly significant remedial work going on, and that stable or otherwise should not be happening certainly not from our beloved Apple.

[snakedoctor]

I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with Apple! As a recent Mac "newbie" (switched from Windows about 12 months ago) I was assured by all of my "MacHead" friends that I would never have issues like the ones I'm experiencing right now if I used Apple Computers. Well I made the switch and I have been loving it until I upgraded to Leopard about a month ago.

As a photographer, I didn't upgrade until I saw that Photoshop CS3 was compatible. I'm not sure what Adobe's meaning of compatible is, but CS3 is horribly buggy in Leopard on my iMac allum 24".

As far as my MacBook is concerned, my wireless connection is horribly unstable in Leopard. I took it to a Mac Genius just to rule out hardware issues. The "Genius" told me they (Apple) are aware and are working on it. "Any day now" he assured me.

I know this is going to crawl under the skin of many of you in this forum, but maybe Apple could take a page from Microsoft and release "Hot Fixes" as Microsoft likes to call them for specific urgent issues. And I consider the wireless issue I'm having with my MacBook urgent. I understand that my issues with Photoshop don't effect the majority on this list so why should you have to wait for a fix for this.

I'm forever on the Mac platform and have not regretted my switch in the slightest. And I'm looking forward to my new MBP (Once new ones are released) and Mac Pro once I save a little more! I would say that my Macs function almost at 100% since upgrading all of them to Leopard. But I certainly have learned that when it comes to upgrading the OS, all of these companies are alike and all should wait for the first updates to make sure the system is a stable OS. Especially if you're like me and depend on your computers to make a living.

I see these posts about Horrible problems with Leopard. I have a question as a recent switcher my self, did you upgrade over the top or do a clean install?

I got Leopard in November with my macbook. Even then I did a clean install so as not to install MS or iWork trial-ware and to get rid of PPC code and every language but english, saving my self some serious disk space.

I have had Zero problems with Leopard, this little macbook runs a good 18 hours a day in Leopard almost everyday. I have a Linksys wireless N VPN router and I have it in G/N mode since my Macbook has N.

I will say that I have helped allot of users out with wireless problems (I am a small business consultant for Windows mostly) and a thing the helps them allot is switching the wireless AP to a single mode like G only as a test. I know mine works in mixed mode G/N but with newer N routers they sometimes work best in one mode G or N. Problem is usually not all clients are N yet, so they have to go to G only.

[darthraige]

This is the best news yet on this build...

Joining the growing list of subtle refinements in Mac OS X 10.5.2 are several more significant feature additions, such as support for Remote Disc optical drive sharing on existing Macs.

[unlokia]

LOOK GUYS... okay so maybe we are a little disappointed, but let's get this into perspective if we can; this is *SOFTWARE*, not the cure for cancer. It takes as long as it does, and no amount of whining and refreshing of Software Update is going to hurry it along any faster.

You're all relying on these bogus (and often unfounded) "rumours" to give you some kind of indication as to it's appearance, and when the "rumours" turn out to be lemons, you sulk like a child who got socks for Christmas. If you are stupid enough to hang on every word a rumour monger would utter, then you are the bigger fools for doing so.

Get on with your lives(?!) this is SOFTWARE, not life or death; it's okay to be disappointed, but for goodness sake GET IT IN PERSPECTIVE.

[Mindflux]

This is the best news yet on this build...

Joining the growing list of subtle refinements in Mac OS X 10.5.2 are several more significant feature additions, such as support for Remote Disc optical drive sharing on existing Macs.


You must have missed it. This was mentioned in an earlier build thread.


I got Leopard in November with my macbook. Even then I did a clean install so as not to install MS or iWork trial-ware and to get rid of PPC code and every language but english, saving my self some serious disk space.


I'm surprised getting rid of PPC code hasn't been problematic for you? A lot of folks do this and some Apps quit working (The ones that use Rosetta, I'm sure).

Did you also remove all the unused printer drivers? ;)

[darthraige]

You must have missed it. This was mentioned in an earlier build thread.

Damn. lol. There's just so many threads on this issue. Anyway, best news yet, can't believe I missed it! :)

[MightyThor12]

As a Noob I just love to read this stuff! [... no personal insults, please]

[Daveoc64]

Get on with your lives(?!) this is SOFTWARE, not life or death; it's okay to be disappointed, but for goodness sake GET IT IN PERSPECTIVE.

For many people IT IS life or death when their computer crashes.

Some people just can't put up with poor reliability.

If Mac OS X doesn't do what you need it to, there's no point using it so some people have turned back to Tiger.

If you need your business/doctor's surgery/school/home computer to do things reliably, then it's far more important than some little kids toy.

[cnorth3]

In Shake, FCP, and Vectorworks they are stable, Adobe on the other hand is a different matter.

Well, maybe some of the trouble is with the third-party aps? ;)

[IT-Pro]

As a Noob I just love to read this stuff!
Well rumors. We're just guessing when the release date will be based on facts.

Actually, quitte a lot of what Mac Rumors predicts turns out to be true, so it's not all crap. With Software updates like these it is just hard to predict a release date, because you never know what problems will surface. Apple as a company is apart from software updates extremely unpredictable, they usually don't give any information regarding coming products or software updates, which makes people gather rumors and then just guess.

The release of 10.5.2 is just much anticipated because of it's amount of bugfixes, people just love to work with te latest and greatest stuff, which is usually the best, and so they're eager to give it a try themselves. Why would that be stupid? Predicting thing isn't stupid as well, at least when you keep things in perspective.

[MightyThor12]

Well rumors. We're just guessing when the release date will be based on facts.



I know I know.....I want it as much as anyone!!! I have a macbook, enough said

[gnasher729]

or i could be that they have just lost the plot...when deadlines are missed, it is a very unhealthy sign, when you don't make deadlines so you can't be accused of missing them that is hiding something..too many things not working.

I don't know if you have any idea what you are discussing here - this whole thread is about things that you can only know if you are under an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) or if you heard from someone who is in breach of an NDA. So where does this nonsense about missed deadlines come from?

[0racle]

LOOK GUYS... okay so maybe we are a little disappointed, but let's get this into perspective if we can; this is *SOFTWARE*, not the cure for cancer.
...

Get on with your lives(?!) this is SOFTWARE, not life or death; it's okay to be disappointed, but for goodness sake GET IT IN PERSPECTIVE.

You do understand that not everyone's computer is a toy right? Some of us actually have to have machines work for us to get paid.

[unlokia]

You do understand that not everyone's computer is a toy right? Some of us actually have to have machines work for us to get paid.


Sure, so you'd have a Tiger Mac and a Leopard Mac, if your work was that mission critical! (or a dual boot). It's just easier to complain than to keep your cool; that is the real truth. Whichever way you look at this, it is NOT life or death, for if it WERE, then you'd have had a better backup plan in place, previous to even the KNOWLEDGE of Leopard's existance.

How can you reasonbly expect a BRAND NEW OS to work flawlessly, out-of-the-box in every conceivable situation?. Apple engineers are only human, not magicians. I would pass the blame to the likes of you, for your inherent short sighted view of the future, and not to Apple. Are they supposed to rush the updates, so they cause MORE errors so you guys can satisfy your thirst for a good moan EVEN MORE?. Get a grip.

You can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all the time

[MacArchi]

Well, maybe some of the trouble is with the third-party aps? ;)

well Mail is not a third party app, and the problems with C4D are directly attributable to Leopard. I will be going back to a happier time this weekend, I don't blame Apple, but myself for falling for the hype..

[unlokia]

well Mail is not a third party app, and the problems with C4D are directly attributable to Leopard. I will be going back to a happier time this weekend, I don't blame Apple, but myself for falling for the hype..

Early adopter syndrome?.

[MacArchi]

Sure, so you'd have a Tiger Mac and a Leopard Mac, if your work was that mission critical! (or a dual boot). It's just easier to complain than to keep your cool; that is the real truth. Whichever way you look at this, it is NOT life or death, for if it WERE, then you'd have had a better backup plan in place, previous to even the KNOWLEDGE of Leopard's existance.

How can you reasonbly expect a BRAND NEW OS to work flawlessly, out-of-the-box in every conceivable situation?. Apple engineers are only human, not magicians. I would pass the blame to the likes of you, for your inherent short sighted view of the future, and not to Apple. Are they supposed to rush the updates, so they cause MORE errors so you guys can satisfy your thirst for a good moan EVEN MORE?. Get a grip.

Sure but a lot of people feel that Leopard was way under done when it was launched, other wise why was 10.5.1 released so soon after 10.5 was released, it is behaviour you just don't expect from Apple.

Early adopter syndrome?.

And Leopard is the cure...

[Sky Blue]

why was 10.5.1 released so soon after 10.5 was released

The same reason 10.4.1 was released so soon after 10.4.0 and 10.3.1 was released so soon after 10.3.0...

[TheSpaz]

You do understand that not everyone's computer is a toy right? Some of us actually have to have machines work for us to get paid.

As much as I agree with you about using machines for work. If you're using your machine for work, you should already know not to update to the latest OS until you KNOW that all of your daily apps are compatible right? Here at my work, we use Tiger still because we know that what we're using is currently stable and working... now it would be stupid for us to just go ahead and order Leopard and find out that Adobe CS2 doesn't run correctly and causes problems... so therefore, if you're a regular home-user and wanna upgrade because it's fun and new, that's one thing... if you're at work and you wanna upgrade, it could affect your workflow and possibly interrupt things and cause you to fall behind. Professionals (like myself) know that you don't just jump on a new OS as soon as it comes out.

[Sky Blue]

Professionals (like myself) know that you don't just jump on a new OS as soon as it comes out.

and what happens if you buy new machines that come with Leopard?

[PlaceofDis]

Makes no sense, so all the people that need the ability to do a remote install off of a CD or DVD with their MBA are out of luck and may have to wait close to a week?

i'm guessing that this may be where the issue lies to be honest. probably don't have the kinks worked out and its holding up pushing it through.

or other bugs keep appearing. who knows?

[pjo]

and what happens if you buy new machines that come with Leopard?

You wipe out your tiger DVD and clean - install it ; unless of course the machine's hardware for some reason isn't supported on tiger (read: drivers et al)

[Sky Blue]

You wipe out your tiger DVD and clean - install it ; unless of course the machine's hardware for some reason isn't supported on tiger (read: drivers et al)

You wouldn't have a license for Tiger on that machine, so it would be the extra cost if you could even find Tiger to purchase any more.
Then you get to the hardware support...
I have 12 iMacs at work that aren't going out to people's desks until 10.5.2 is out.
(Not that I think anything is wrong with 10.5.1, I just don't want to redo the image and push out the .2 update)

[unlokia]

As much as I agree with you about using machines for work. If you're using your machine for work, you should already know not to update to the latest OS until you KNOW that all of your daily apps are compatible right? Here at my work, we use Tiger still because we know that what we're using is currently stable and working... now it would be stupid for us to just go ahead and order Leopard and find out that Adobe CS2 doesn't run correctly and causes problems... so therefore, if you're a regular home-user and wanna upgrade because it's fun and new, that's one thing... if you're at work and you wanna upgrade, it could affect your workflow and possibly interrupt things and cause you to fall behind. Professionals (like myself) know that you don't just jump on a new OS as soon as it comes out.

Like magpies, they flock around new, shiny things (me included, but my Mac isn't mission critical) and get drawn into buying them, without any foresight. They really should know better, if they've been using Apple products for as long as they profess to have done; it's (un)common sense when you think about it. I agree with you completely.

It always amuses me how people seem to HAVE to find someone to blame for x/y/z problem... as long as that person is ANYONE but themselves; we couldn't admit our own errors of judgement, could we - oh no, that would be unspeakable!!. Men have this hangup with admitting when they are wrong; I am a man also, but for goodness sake dudes, I get it wrong ALL THE TIME!. If you can't do something or you don't know how - if you are asked to solve a problem but don't know the solution, then face facts and SAY "I'm sorry but I don't know". Easy really, and saves all the arrogance and "Male pride" BS.

Face the facts; why are Apple MORE to blame than you?. Did you ever think that you expect too much of them?. I am sure a week working in Cupertino may shed some light on how many projects they have to juggle at once, whilst trying to please the infinitely incontent masses, the likes of which have decided do congregate around this thread, to vent their spleens for no constructive reason.

If your missions were as critical as you project them to be, you'd have no time for idle banter on net forums! ;)

[MacArchi]

Like magpies,

8 cores is better then one - nothing to do with shiny

If your missions were as critical as you project them to be, you'd have no time for idle banter on net forums! ;)

it is all the downtime caused by 10.5.1

[unlokia]

Like magpies,

8 cores is better then one - nothing to do with shiny

Wow really?. Well duh, I didn't realise :rolleyes:. So... in that case, does that mean if I stand on two legs instead of one leg, the weight becomes more evenly distributed?. Revelation.

[Eric S.]

is it typical for Apple to release updates so quickly/frequently?

Absolutely. It's been over three months since the release of 10.5, actually a longer period than previous OS X releases saw before their 10.x.2 update:

Mac OS X 10.0 - Cheetah
10.0 - 24 March 2001
10.0.2 - 1 May 2001 1 month, 8 days

Mac OS X 10.1 - Puma
10.1 - 25 September 2001
10.1.2 - 20 December 2001 2 months, 25 days

Mac OS X 10.2 - Jaguar
10.2 - 23 August 2002
10.2.2 - 11 November 2002 2 months, 19 days

Mac OS X 10.3 - Panther
10.3 - 24 October 2003
10.3.2 - 17 December 2003 1 month, 23 days

Mac OS X 10.4 - Tiger
10.4 - 29 April 2005
10.4.2 - 12 July 2005 2 months, 13 days

In general updates come every 2-3 months; much longer periods between updates is very rare.

[MacArchi]

Wow really?. Well duh, I didn't realise :rolleyes:. So... in that case, does that mean if I stand on two legs instead of one leg, the weight becomes more evenly distributed?. Revelation.

for multicore rendering yes

[milo]

For many people IT IS life or death when their computer crashes.

Some people just can't put up with poor reliability.

If Mac OS X doesn't do what you need it to, there's no point using it so some people have turned back to Tiger.

If you need your business/doctor's surgery/school/home computer to do things reliably, then it's far more important than some little kids toy.

If that's the case for you, you absolutely should not upgrade your OS until it has been out a while and people report that it is reliable enough for what you are doing. Any mission critical machine should probably always be on an OS that's fairly old and proven. And that goes for any OS, not just osx.

Personally, I've been dual booting all my machines. I think I'm going to switch one to 10.5 full time now, the other I'm still waiting to see how 10.5.2 is.

Sure but a lot of people feel that Leopard was way under done when it was launched, other wise why was 10.5.1 released so soon after 10.5 was released, it is behaviour you just don't expect from Apple.

To be honest, I'd like to see ALL of my apps get a .1 release soon after the initial one, I don't consider that under done.

and what happens if you buy new machines that come with Leopard?

You should make sure your apps are compatible before you buy those machines. Guys I work with are doing those checks right now.

[Eric S.]

Sure but a lot of people feel that Leopard was way under done when it was launched, other wise why was 10.5.1 released so soon after 10.5 was released, it is behaviour you just don't expect from Apple.

10.0 - 24 March 2001; 10.0.1 - 14 April; (21 days)
10.1 - 25 September 2001; 10.1.1 - 13 November ; (49 days)
10.2 - 23 August 2002; 10.2.1 - 18 September; ( 26 days)
10.3 - 24 October 2003; 10.3.1 - 10 November ; (17 days)
10.4 - 29 April 2005; 10.4.1 - 16 May 2005; (17 days)
10.5 - 26 October 2007; 10.5.1 - 15 November; (20 days)

The period between release of 10.5 and 10.5.1 was comparable to all OS X versions except 10.1.

[Sky Blue]

You should make sure your apps are compatible before you buy those machines. Guys I work with are doing those checks right now.

But if you need new machines, as we did, you have no choice.

[BRLawyer]

Apart from a few problems with some input managers, Leopard has been simply ROCK-SOLID for me, in pretty much every sense...

And yeah, it's much better than Tiger in terms of overall stability and speed...10.5.2 will just be the icing on the cake. GO APPLE!

[TheSpaz]

If that's the case for you, you absolutely should not upgrade your OS until it has been out a while and people report that it is reliable enough for what you are doing. Any mission critical machine should probably always be on an OS that's fairly old and proven. And that goes for any OS, not just osx.

Personally, I've been dual booting all my machines. I think I'm going to switch one to 10.5 full time now, the other I'm still waiting to see how 10.5.2 is.



To be honest, I'd like to see ALL of my apps get a .1 release soon after the initial one, I don't consider that under done.



You should make sure your apps are compatible before you buy those machines. Guys I work with are doing those checks right now.

Everything you said is correct in my book. Don't try to fix what isn't broken right? If an older version of the OS is running stable and your software is tested and works great on it... don't upgrade to a newer OS which might break that compatibility and leave you open for having to go through hoops trying to figure out why some things that used to work don't work anymore.

The above statement is my attitude about my WORK machine... At home however, I love the latest and greatest and I always jump on what's newest because there's nothing I'm doing at home that is mission-critical.

Apart from a few problems with some input managers, Leopard has been simply ROCK-SOLID for me, in pretty much every sense...

And yeah, it's much better than Tiger in terms of overall stability and speed...10.5.2 will just be the icing on the cake. GO APPLE!

I love how fast Leopard is... it's insane.

[unlokia]

I love how fast Leopard is... it's insane.

Do I understand "is" to mean "is, in ten months time"?. My BRAND NEW SR Macbook with 4Gb ram takes 30s+ to boot, and I have screen tearing due to crappy infant X3100 drivers. Nice one - great. However, I know they will fix it, but I also know that until they do, you [nice people] will be sitting with your fingers on the software update option, like it is the end of the world. Amusing.

[Daveoc64]

If that's the case for you, you absolutely should not upgrade your OS until it has been out a while and people report that it is reliable enough for what you are doing. Any mission critical machine should probably always be on an OS that's fairly old and proven. And that goes for any OS, not just osx.

Personally, I've been dual booting all my machines. I think I'm going to switch one to 10.5 full time now, the other I'm still waiting to see how 10.5.2 is.



To be honest, I'd like to see ALL of my apps get a .1 release soon after the initial one, I don't consider that under done.



You should make sure your apps are compatible before you buy those machines. Guys I work with are doing those checks right now.

I don't personally have anything that important that doesn't work, but I own a model of Mac that will only run Leopard - so I can't "go back to Tiger".

Nor would I want to buy an old operating system for the few months until an update was released (not that I could, seeing as Tiger for Intel wasn't released to retail).

I think most people are being so harsh about the state of Leopard because Apple is always talking about how much better it is compared to Microsoft at making reliable, compatible and simple software much sooner.

Apple has shown it's able to be just as bad, if not worse over some things.

[j-a-x]

I don't know why everybody in here seems to be having so many problems with Leopard. I've never had a crash on my MacBook or PowerBook G4, and Leopard fixes a lot of minor annoyances from Tiger. In general, I like Leopard a lot. I don't have any major complaints, although I have a few minor ones.

I'm still looking forward to the update though (especially updated graphics drivers for the X3100).

[Yaboze]

Macbook SR 2.2 here, came with Leopard, no issues with Airport, in fact, I haven't even used my ethernet port at all, only to test it once. I've done everything wireless, no drops or issues. I have a Linksys router.

[alw4416]

All I can say is that I hope 10.5.2 fixes all the FU!@#$ issues with Logic 8... I am still perplexed at the lack of support for Logic Studio. It is as though Apple is so damn busy doing other things that they have totally forgotten about it. If you won't take my word for it, go to the Apple discussion board and look at all the posts about the overload issues in Logic 8.0.1. I have a brand new 8 core with 10GB of RAM and Logic runs like I turtle. I spent most of the night trying to figure out if it is Logic or 10.5.1....? That is the question of the day, is Logic just buggy, or is it a combo of Logic and 10.5.1??? Please feel free to post your thoughts. PLEASE COME 10.5.2 and LOGIC 8.0.2!!!

[TheSpaz]

All I can say is that I hope 10.5.2 fixes all the FU!@#$ issues with Logic 8... I am still perplexed at the lack of support for Logic Studio. It is as though Apple is so damn busy doing other things that they have totally forgotten about it. If you won't take my word for it, go to the Apple discussion board and look at all the posts about the overload issues in Logic 8.0.1. I have a brand new 8 core with 10GB of RAM and Logic runs like I turtle. I spent most of the night trying to figure out if it is Logic or 10.5.1....? That is the question of the day, is Logic just buggy, or is it a combo of Logic and 10.5.1??? Please feel free to post your thoughts. PLEASE COME 10.5.2 and LOGIC 8.0.2!!!

I had Logic Express 8 freak out on me the other day. I was switching audio sources from my line-out to the Firewire Solo and LE8 started acting really slow and couldn't even play anything without it stopping with an error. I found out that there was an error loop that was logging to my log file in console and all I had to do was stop the logging source with Activity Monitor.

[Bonsai1214]

i had my first leopard kernel panic today. it was because of my microsoft mouse. go figure..

aside from that, leopard's been rock solid and super fast. .2 will just add more sweetness to the os.

[csalm87]

i had my first leopard kernel panic today. it was because of my microsoft mouse. go figure..

aside from that, leopard's been rock solid and super fast. .2 will just add more sweetness to the os.

LOL... I had a Leopard kernel panic a few days ago, the second time in my life I have seen the "You need to restart your computer" message. Yes. Second time EVER. I've only gotten it once on Panther, none on Tiger.

[MikeTheC]

This is also holding up my next computer purchase. I can't run Leopard at the moment, and until it becomes safe, sane, stable and mature, there's no way I'll consider switching to it.

Whether that means 10.5.2, or 10.5.3, or even 10.5.4, I'll wait. I'm in no rush to dump a lot of money on a product that isn't as good as what I've got now.

I just wish companies (like Apple) wouldn't rush their freaking product to market, most especially when one of their major claims to fame is that it's supposed to be more stable and dependable than the alternative.

[riscy]

^^ What you said, Mike - I upgraded to Leopard as I had to change the HD, and was in a different country where I could get my hands on Leopard, and I assumed it would be pretty stable, but that is not the case.

I know that lots of people love Leopard and have no problems, but others are having a tough time, and have been since November (especially those behind proxy servers).

The only web based app I have that works is FireFox (not Apple based!), all my other internet based apps crash as soon as they open - that pisses me off!! They work on the Mac if I unplug the ethernet cable - what is that about, when they want and need internet access?

[Kilamite]

Do I understand "is" to mean "is, in ten months time"?. My BRAND NEW SR Macbook with 4Gb ram takes 30s+ to boot, and I have screen tearing due to crappy infant X3100 drivers. Nice one - great. However, I know they will fix it, but I also know that until they do, you [nice people] will be sitting with your fingers on the software update option, like it is the end of the world. Amusing.

30 seconds to boot isn't unusual - that is more because of hard drive performance than anything else. I rarely shut my MBP down, I always put it to sleep. Wakes up instantly and ready to use. When I need to restart, 30 seconds is nothing. I usually nip to the loo or get a drink and it's ready when I'm back.

Maybe you aren't experiencing much problems with 10.5.1, but a lot of people are. AirPort problems etc.

Can you blame people for wanting this update so desperately so their Mac will work properly?

[Eric S.]

I just wish companies (like Apple) wouldn't rush their freaking product to market, most especially when one of their major claims to fame is that it's supposed to be more stable and dependable than the alternative.

I think that a major system software release, especially one with as much new code as Leopard has, is always going to have issues when it hits the field. No matter how good a company's QA cycle may be, it just won't have the resources (in either time or equipment) to duplicate all of the customer scenarios. Also the volume of customers will bang on the release 1000 times harder than the QA team can.

Early adopters of either HW or SW have to expect that it comes with a period of instability. I think that we should reasonably expect that it takes about six months (2 or 3 minor upgrade cycles) for a release like Leopard to mature. The real problem comes if the SW still isn't stable after six months. That's when it will justifiably get a bad reputation as a lemon, and that can be hard to live down.

I have Leopard installed in a separate partition to start using its features but I won't switch from Tiger for main work until at least 10.5.2, and even then we'll have to see how that performs.

[seashellz2]

several seeds with "no known issues" in the past couple weeks, and they havent released it?


idea: they should junk the original 10.5/1 and release a fully fixed and re-integrated 10.5.2 combo disc/download.

I dont think layering patches (10.5.2) on top of a crappy foundation (10.5) is a good idea.
just more things to go wrong/not intermesh --start fresh.

[MacsAttack]

several seeds with "no known issues" in the past couple weeks, and they havent released it?


idea: they should junk the original 10.5/1 and release a fully fixed and re-integrated 10.5.2 combo disc.

I dont think layering patches (10.5.2) on top of a crappy foundation (10.5) is a good idea.
just more things to go wrong/not intermesh --start fresh.

I've got a wild theory that they are holding off 10.5.2 to go with new MacBook Pros... and that they will get announced same time as the iPhone SDK - so look for a major media event right at the end of February.

...or 10.5.2 may just be out next Tuesday...

Perhaps Apple and MicroSoft are playing chicken with their next update to see who blinks first. For Vista SP1 is make of break. For Leopard, Apple has to squish as many issues as possible (the .2 release is usually the point where OS X is ready for prime time).

[newtech]

several seeds with "no known issues" in the past couple weeks, and they havent released it?


idea: they should junk the original 10.5/1 and release a fully fixed and re-integrated 10.5.2 combo disc/download.

I dont think layering patches (10.5.2) on top of a crappy foundation (10.5) is a good idea.
just more things to go wrong/not intermesh --start fresh.

What you suggest won't happen until 10.6. Minor point releases are always fixes/patches to existing code. Newly recompiled code comes in major point releases. Major architectural changes only come in new major revisions ( ie 9->X )

[kaiwai]

several seeds with "no known issues" in the past couple weeks, and they havent released it?

Do you even know what 'no known issues' means? it means that they've shipped a build which has no issues that are confirmed (aka known). There is a big difference between someone reporting a bug and Apple tracking down the bug, confirming the bug and then fixing it. Yes, I"m sure there are bugs reported by people, but until Apple is able to confirm that the bug exists and the cause of that bug, it isn't classed as a known problem.

idea: they should junk the original 10.5/1 and release a fully fixed and re-integrated 10.5.2 combo disc/download.

And what would that achieve? nothing.

I dont think layering patches (10.5.2) on top of a crappy foundation (10.5) is a good idea.
just more things to go wrong/not intermesh --start fresh.

What has that got to do with the price of fish? if there was a crappy foundation in terms of design then you'll need to wait for a major revision. There is nothing structurally wrong with Mac OS X 10.5, the only thing wrong with it is bugs and some features that are lacking (turning off transparent menu etc); both of which are being addressed in this update.

[MikeTheC]

Clearly, no commercial OS vendor can literally wait "forever" before releasing a product.

For that matter, non-commercial though they are in large part, even Linux distro vendors cannot wait "forever".

However, there's also clearly a difference between "waiting forever" and establishing an arbitrary deadline which has far less to do with technology and far more to do either with the size of someone's... erm, ego, or some kind of marketing timetable.

The honest truth is that the general public does not need any particular revision to any particular operating system. Companies need to release something so they have something to show on the books as of such-and-such a date. Now, I'm not trying to say a company should just not worry about ever recouping R&D costs, but they would be much better served (as would their customers) by taking the technologically correct amount of time to be sure what they want to recoup on is really ready to help them do that, not provide a further boat anchor for monies to be spent on further fixes on an already-deployed product, and the cloaked costs of customer frustration, only a portion of which shows up in the form of needless tech support calls and/or expenditures of store-level "Genius" scheduling.

And given the fact that Apple operates in the "sealed compartment" mode ubiquitous to most proprietary software development, it would behoove them in that respect as well to take their time, since they are unwilling to allow the sort of level of peer review which surrounds OSS-based offerings, particularly those more major projects, such as operating systems.

[newtech]

Ummm...

1 Apple does not realize any profits from minor point updates

2 Seeding to NDA'd developers is as close to a peer review as any proprietary commercial product will ever get.

3 Third party software is a MAJOR reason a specific OS revision may be needed.

4 Minor point updates are very closely connected to ongoing R&D for major point and revision updates.

[Macintosh Man]

All I can say is that I hope 10.5.2 fixes all the FU!@#$ issues with Logic 8... I am still perplexed at the lack of support for Logic Studio. It is as though Apple is so damn busy doing other things that they have totally forgotten about it. If you won't take my word for it, go to the Apple discussion board and look at all the posts about the overload issues in Logic 8.0.1. I have a brand new 8 core with 10GB of RAM and Logic runs like I turtle. I spent most of the night trying to figure out if it is Logic or 10.5.1....? That is the question of the day, is Logic just buggy, or is it a combo of Logic and 10.5.1??? Please feel free to post your thoughts. PLEASE COME 10.5.2 and LOGIC 8.0.2!!!

I don't know much about logic studio but it it runs great on Tiger but is slow on Leopard, then it's most likely Leopard and you'll need 10.5.2 which should make a difference.

[MacArchi]

Ummm...

1 Apple does not realize any profits from minor point updates



If you read a number of the posts here you will appreciate that there is a large number of people waiting for 10.5.2 before they buy/invest in new hardware.

[Roadstar]

sometimes when I close a not responding app, its icon remains on the dock and the system believes its still running despite the fact that Activity Monitor doesn't display the process running! The only way to get past this is to kill the process Windowserver but that closes everything thats running..this is very annoying and wasnt there in tiger


If it's only the Dock that believes the app is still running, doesn't killall Dock help? Since you mention that Activity Monitor doesn't display the process any more, I'd suspect it's only Dock that's misbehaving and it can be killed (it restarts automatically) without having to bring Windowserver down.

[petvas]

If it's only the Dock that believes the app is still running, doesn't killall Dock help? Since you mention that Activity Monitor doesn't display the process any more, I'd suspect it's only Dock that's misbehaving and it can be killed (it restarts automatically) without having to bring Windowserver down.

Killing Dock doesn't help. The only way to get past this is by killing Windowserver. This happens a couple of times every week...

[seashellz2]

Do you even know what 'no known issues' means? it means that they've shipped a build which has no issues that are confirmed (aka known). There is a big difference between someone reporting a bug and Apple tracking down the bug, confirming the bug and then fixing it. Yes, I"m sure there are bugs reported by people, but until Apple is able to confirm that the bug exists and the cause of that bug, it isn't classed as a known problem.



And what would that achieve? nothing.



What has that got to do with the price of fish? if there was a crappy foundation in terms of design then you'll need to wait for a major revision. There is nothing structurally wrong with Mac OS X 10.5, the only thing wrong with it is bugs and some features that are lacking (turning off transparent menu etc); both of which are being addressed in this update.
---
So.... when did God die and make YOU the know-it-all big mouth of the universe? You might, with just a LITTLE finesse and a bit of an IQ point these errors out-after all, im not Bill Gates, smeghead.

[kabunaru]

So, when do you guys think Mac OS 10.5.2 will come? This Tuesday or Friday?
There's been rumors that a new MacBook Pro will come in two weeks and might require Mac OS 10.5.2.

[Apple Corps]

---
So.... when did God die and make YOU the know-it-all big mouth of the universe? You might, with just a LITTLE finesse and a bit of an IQ point these errors out-after all, im not Bill Gates, smeghead.

seashellz2 - I read kaiwai's post and your response. My take away is that you may be the one that could benefit from reflecting on your own post regarding finesse and IQ issues. Your response strikes me as an over reaction.

[ffakr]

Yeah, I agree. If all these people think Leopard is so great, why are they dying for an update?

My machine is working like a dream. Are tons of people seriously having major issues?

Your machine isn't in a large enterprise network.

10.5.2 is not complete.

It'll be out when they fix a major issue.

[ffakr]

---
So.... when did God die and make YOU the know-it-all big mouth of the universe? You might, with just a LITTLE finesse and a bit of an IQ point these errors out-after all, im not Bill Gates, smeghead.

Hows this for finesse?
I am bound by NDA to refrain from describing any bugs which may or may not exist in 10.5.2 (9c29).

There are no know issues because Apple believes they have fixed reported bugs. There will be no known issues until developers test this build and report bugs.

I will state the obvious since 10.5.2 is not out yet. Apple is not ready to release 10.5.2.

That's it.

.. that's doesn't exude finesse either. How about this..
Apple will release 10.5.2 when the are ready to release this jem onto the world but one one instant sooner!

[madmax_2069]

Hows this for finesse?
I am bound by NDA to refrain from describing any bugs which may or may not exist in 10.5.2 (9c29).

There are no know issues because Apple believes they have fixed reported bugs. There will be no known issues until developers test this build and report bugs.

I will state the obvious since 10.5.2 is not out yet. Apple is not ready to release 10.5.2.

That's it.

.. that's doesn't exude finesse either. How about this..
Apple will release 10.5.2 when the are ready to release this jem onto the world but one one instant sooner!

i hope you didn't already say to much about 10.5.2 . i know that Apple will release it when its good and ready to be released. some people need to be reminded of the facts you just said about when Apple releases a update. and some people will still not have the slightest clue and act like you said nothing at all.

but i could not have said what you said better myself. i just hope that Apple takes their time and makes this update worth the wait and fixes more then it breaks.

[aliquis-]

Im hoping they're adding a few nice surprises for us.I hope they make it not suck. Safari and adium crashes more or less the whole time over here, and sometimes the system feels slow for no obvious reason but I guess that can be that some memory had been swapped out in case if the space would have been needed.

I'm still looking at the stars and hoping for a gpu update which *might* let me play a videogame or two on mbp. :(On a new one? Or how would 10.5.2 update your gpu? Good luck with that.

It's those "Top Secret Features" from last year. ;)Are you sure the new crash report tool isn't one of them? I've seen that a lot lately ..

Take your time Apple, all of my Macs are running flawlessly with 10.5.1

I would rather see it wait then released too earlyIf yours are already perfect how can it be to early for you? Hopefully it doesn't get worse ..

[TheChemist]

I'm not very well versed in programing/developing. Could someone explain to me how these revisions work?

I believe 9C25 had no known bugs, what benefits are there in developing another seed?

Is it that there were no known bugs in 9C25, then during testing, a bug appeared so 9C27 was released to address this bug OR is 9C27 trying to optimize 9C25 ?

Another thing, why are so many people scared *****less of violating NDA for a 10.5.x update? Does Apple revolutionize its OS in these point updates? (Seriously, Safari 'seems' snappier doesn't count).

I bought my MBP when 10.4.7 was out, and all that I remember a 10.4.x update doing was killing airport.

Thanks for helping shed light on the matter.

[IT-Pro]

I believe 9C25 had no known bugs, what benefits are there in developing another seed?

Is it that there were no known bugs in 9C25, then during testing, a bug appeared so 9C27 was released to address this bug OR is 9C27 trying to optimize 9C25 ?
Given the fact the amount of fixes is 130+ they must have discovered a lot of bugs after 9C25 and so they released 9C27 with those bugs fixed. No known issues doesn't mean the whole developing process has stopped. It means they've fixed the known bugs.
Another thing, why are so many people scared *****less of violating NDA for a 10.5.x update? Does Apple revolutionize its OS in these point updates? (Seriously, Safari 'seems' snappier doesn't count)..
Because most of the people who get the seeds need those for their profession. When they would break the NDA and Apple knows, they will most likely be banned from Apple Developer Connection, which means they can't get the seeds any more. Which after all means they can't get their products compatible with new versions (10.5.x). So it's a pretty high risk for them.

[Daveoc64]

On a new one? Or how would 10.5.2 update your gpu? Good luck with that.

Apple has included a Graphics Update with 10.5.2 for some time now.

That's how.

[csalm87]

People are getting too impatient here! Seriously, relax. Apple will release 10.5.2 when they think it's ready.

[Catfish_Man]

One thing people may not be considering... "no known issues" doesn't actually mean no known issues (I know this because I have open bug reports that aren't fixed in 10.5.2).

More likely is that they mean "all the issues we targeted for 10.5.2 are fixed, and we're releasing seeds to make sure we didn't accidentally introduce new ones".

[beestigbeestje]

I hope that 10.5.2 speeds up my boot time. Even with a clean install with no apps, my 2.4 ghz SR Macbook pro 2GB RAM boots slower than my brother his macbook. (2ghz, 1gb RAM)

[Catfish_Man]

I hope that 10.5.2 speeds up my boot time. Even with a clean install with no apps, my 2.4 ghz SR Macbook pro 2GB RAM boots slower than my brother his macbook. (2ghz, 1gb RAM)

I bet if your brother installs more ram it will even out. Boot time is the one place more ram hurts instead of helps.

[Larry B]

I hope that 10.5.2 speeds up my boot time. Even with a clean install with no apps, my 2.4 ghz SR Macbook pro 2GB RAM boots slower than my brother his macbook. (2ghz, 1gb RAM)

Ever since updating to Leopard my boot time has been very slow compared to OS 10.4.9. I hope this will improve with 10.5.2:)

[clevin]

I bet if your brother installs more ram it will even out. Boot time is the one place more ram hurts instead of helps.
how so?

[TheChemist]

how so?

i think he misread the post

[iBug2]

C30 seeded just now. 3 More fixes.

[psychofreak]

how so?

I read a MJ post a little while ago saying that RAM isn't accessed during start up and any speed up perceived is just a placebo.