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stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 09:17 AM
I want to take this opportunity to let out some frustrations that have been boiling inside of me for a while. I have been a Microsoft guy for quite some time and switched over to Apple last year. My reasons for making the switch was mainly because I did not see anything worthwhile in Vista and I liked the new features Leopard and felt that they would get good use. One thing that I have noticed since becoming an Apple user is that there is an overwhelming amount of fanboy activity which downright makes me feel like a giant vag. Steve Jobs could re-invent the pet rock and you guys would be lined up ready to buy one. Even if you had already just purchased the pet pebble 2 months earlier. And to top it off, you would all be rushing to upload your video to proudly show us how to properly unbox our pet rock because, afterall, this is an Apple product and because Steve Jobs hypes it up so much it must be so revolutionary and ground breaking?!?! Who the hell posts unboxing videos/pics??? Why does Apple tout products and features like they are the pioneers? Why does the Back to my Mac feature rely on UPnP for routers and not simply port forwarding/NAT? Why the hell do I need an Airport which costs twice as much as any standard router in order to do screen sharing? Is it because screen sharing has only been tested with a handful of 3rd party routers??? It's about time screen sharing has become available, but I must say, Microsoft Remote Desktop sets up so much easier. Why in 2008 do I have duplicate entries in my Calendar and Address Book because I synced up with .Mac? I thought that sort of problem was the norm in 1997 with Palm Pilots and Psions? Why did I get duplicate widgets when syncing my widgets with .mac? I assumed that would be an OBVIOUS problem and I was so disgusted to see duplicate widgets on both of my Macs after syncing... Come on guys, it's 2008... People expect crap to just freakin work... Especially syncing.... Who really wants to futz around with this kind of crap? Why does one of the biggest Apple fans (who happens to sit 5ft away from me as I type this) have so much anger and frustration at Apple and Steve Jobs? Is it because he was one of the first to purchase the iPhone and has since been let down and still cannot copy/paste? Is it because in 2008 Safari crashes countless times on basic web sites? Is it because as a developer, he has sold his customer on Apple products and he still remains in a development stage because Apple has not released Java 6? It's been 1yr since Sun released Java 6... Get on it Steve!!!

It makes me sad to see you guys praise products such as the macbook air... What's so special? Apple TV... a failure... Im anxious to see how well TAKE 2 works out for Steve Jobs... Im sure now that it's been mentioned twice some people will feel obligated to buy it. Don't get me wrong, I still feel that Leopard is a better OS compared to Vista. But I am ashamed to walk into an Apple store only because the typical Apple fan is the epitome of the geek that I do not want to be associated with. I don't need a "genius" to tell me that the reason why my Mac Pro crashes so much is because I have a Microsoft mouse plugged into the USB port. Would they sell me another sorry "Mighty mouse"??? What kind of design is the mighty mouse? Who uses and enjoys using a mighty mouse? Why does Apple try and simplify computing and downplay the complexity of PC's yet they offer these bozo services such as training which shows me how to use Apple products? I thought Apple products just work?



Salty Pirate
Feb 1, 2008, 09:19 AM
How do you really feel? Maybe I can assist you in remember why you were drawn to applehttp://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/2e680b8d-211e-41c5-a0bf-9ccc6d7e62a21033.mspx

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 09:22 AM
How do you really feel? Maybe I can assist you in remember why you were drawn to applehttp://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/2e680b8d-211e-41c5-a0bf-9ccc6d7e62a21033.mspx

hahaha that's pretty funny. I am not surprised microsoft has taken that approach. Vista is complete crap

aristobrat
Feb 1, 2008, 09:30 AM
My older-than-dirt LinkSys router has supported UPnP for years now. Why would you think that you need an Apple router for UPnP?

It's too bad that you let yourself get so consumed with the fanboys. They exist for pretty much every technological product now (DVRs, wireless phones, cars, GPS, TVs, headphones, etc). Hopefully you'll be able to figure out a way to not get upset about stuff you can't control/don't agree with and just enjoy the product you bought for whatever reason you saw in it when you switched to it. Apple fanboys and Steve's reality-distorting field have existed for way longer than you and I have had Apples, and will continue to exist for a long time in the future.

Pees330
Feb 1, 2008, 09:38 AM
So what's your point? You can't expect Apple to be perfect in everything that they do, no company is. If you don't like how Apple does things then use another product.

Also just because Apple fanboys buy everything that is new and great, why do you have to put them down? I don't go on windows forums and say "Macs are the best thing ever." I'm not going to lose sleep because you think a few features are better on the windows side of things. I don't have a problem using windows, I just don't prefer it. I personally don't care if you bash Apple's products, but don't attack the people because they like something that you don't.

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 09:42 AM
My older-than-dirt LinkSys router has supported UPnP for years now. Why would you think that you need an Apple router for UPnP?


Sure, my linksys WRT54G has UPnP and it's been enabled...Yet it still doesn't work and I have found countless websites which discussed the issue. Some sites suggested flashing my router firmware with a 3rd party version of the firmware...That's crazy! I feel that Apples tight marriage between their chosen hardware is to blame for the problems that exist with many of their products.

joefinan
Feb 1, 2008, 09:43 AM
I do agree with you in part - the fan base is slightly odd but, at the same time, quite sweet. I suspect that the larger market share that Apple gets, the less the fan base will become. After all, everyone likes to support the underdog.

And my thread "Things you HATE about Macs" has been going for a few weeks and notched-up several hundred posts.

Macs certainly aren't perfect, but I think an awful lot of people much prefer Mac OS to Windows whereas an awful lot of Windows users use Windows 'just cos'.

Also, if you read sites like Mac Rumors then you'll witness the fan base - if you'd rather just buy and use your Mac rather than be a fan of it, perhaps you should steer clear of websites like this?

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 09:44 AM
So what's your point? You can't expect Apple to be perfect in everything that they do, no company is. If you don't like how Apple does things then use another product.

Also just because Apple fanboys buy everything that is new and great, why do you have to put them down? I don't go on windows forums and say "Macs are the best thing ever." I'm not going to lose sleep because you think a few features are better on the windows side of things. I don't have a problem using windows, I just don't prefer it. I personally don't care if you bash Apple's products, but don't attack the people because they like something that you don't.

I'm not trying to tout windows at all...you're missing the whole point. Let's not try and steer this down that dreaded path.

tstarks33
Feb 1, 2008, 09:46 AM
OP - hilarious post. While I agree with most things you said (and disagree with others), you won't find a hospitable home to your thoughts here.

The thing about the unboxing pics and vids - so funny and true. I never understood that myself.

mr.666
Feb 1, 2008, 09:46 AM
im only going to chime in on the "why the unboxing videos and pics".

part of it is just sharing man. mac users are happy to see others get new Apple prods. lots view them cuz not everyone can afoord one on release day... but they still want the experience of seeing inside. third, since a great deal of apples base users are in design or creative, the packaging solutions are often amazing.

Petrogk
Feb 1, 2008, 09:47 AM
For reference, I am not a "fanboy". I've never even used OS X for extended periods of time and I've only owned 1 iPod since they came out (a nano 1st gen)

I don't really agree with your comment about fanboys.
I persoanlly find that these "fanboys" actually react even more strongly towards and Apple product they don't want. For instance they complain more about not getting an ultraportable MBP instead of the "underpowered" MBA. Most PC users I know think the MBA is damn cool. They wouldnt buy one, but they don't complain about being dissapointed all day. So, with regards to your comment about the iRock, I disagree. A few select people would buy anything from Apple but not most so called "fanboys"

Now with regards to the Macbook Air. What's so special. A LOT. Everyone seems to think if the product isnt right for them it isn't right for anyone.
I have been looking to replace my Toughbook W2 for a while now.
I want something the same weight, since I carry it all day.
I want something faster.
I want something with a slightly bigger screen. (To all of you who want 12'' screen, have you ever used one for 3 years straight?)
How many times have I used my Optical drive in my laptop....twice a year...
I have a 3Ghz Dell at home with lots of space (and 2GB of RAM...which is plenty you crazy people who complain about the MBA's RAM)

The Air is perfect for me. If it hadn't been i would probably have never decided to switch to a Mac.
It's 3 lbs (same as mine), 800Mhz fast then my current laptop, has double the hard drive space, a bigger screen all while being sexy and thin.

And you say it's expensive...I payed more then that for my current laptop when it came out...and I dare you to find a laptop with an SSD for less...

Sure I'll have to bring the Ethernet adapter to school with me daily (we have a plug at every seat instead of wireless) but I never have more then 1 USB device plugged in.

So...
Sorry for this long rant....BUT

Feel free to scream at the overly obsessive "fanboys" all day long.
But don't tell us not to like the MBA...b/c it IS perfect for some of us!

EDIT:
Again sorry for ranting...I probably wouldn't have said anything had you posted this on a non-MBA forum. I'm just kinda tired of people bashing on a computer that fills all my needs on every tech board. As you can see this is my first post.
Like someone said, if you don't like the fan base, steer clear of the boards. I actually do exactly that.

diabolic
Feb 1, 2008, 09:50 AM
the packaging solutions are often amazing.

This is true. Opening an Apple product is always something I look forward to. I don't think I've ever seen another company pay as much attention to the aesthetics of packaging a product.

prostuff1
Feb 1, 2008, 09:58 AM
One thing that I have noticed since becoming an Apple user is that there is an overwhelming amount of fanboy activity which downright makes me feel like a giant vag. Steve Jobs could re-invent the pet rock and you guys would be lined up ready to buy one. Even if you had already just purchased the pet pebble 2 months earlier. And to top it off, you would all be rushing to upload your video to proudly show us how to properly unbox our pet rock because, afterall, this is an Apple product and because Steve Jobs hypes it up so much it must be so revolutionary and ground breaking?!?! Who the hell posts unboxing videos/pics???
This is just e way it is. Some take it more seriously then other and frankly, as a long time mac user, it annoys me sometimes when i see the fanboy stuff. Don't get me wrong, if i see someone not using an apple product I will try to convince them to get one, but i don't usually do the whole fanboy thing.

Why does Apple tout products and features like they are the pioneers? Why does the Back to my Mac feature rely on UPnP for routers and not simply port forwarding/NAT?
Because UPnP is idiot proof (for most things) requiring someone to go into there router and open a port and figure out how to to that is WAY above what apple wants to make there customers do

Why the hell do I need an Airport which costs twice as much as any standard router in order to do screen sharing? Is it because screen sharing has only been tested with a handful of 3rd party routers???
lat i check ALL modern routers, and most old ones, support UPnP. Personally i turn it off and forward the ports myself so that i am in control.

Why in 2008 do I have duplicate entries in my Calendar and Address Book because I synced up with .Mac? I thought that sort of problem was the norm in 1997 with Palm Pilots and Psions? Why did I get duplicate widgets when syncing my widgets with .mac?
I don't have or use .Mac so i don't know what is going on there. Sorry fo the trouble.

Is it because he was one of the first to purchase the iPhone and has since been let down and still cannot copy/paste?
I am sure they are working on it. If that person was so concerned about not having copy and past maybe the person should have gotten another device.

Is it because in 2008 Safari crashes countless times on basic web sites?
This could be the sites problem or maybe it is a safari problem. Have you tried fixing it.

Is it because as a developer, he has sold his customer on Apple products and he still remains in a development stage because Apple has not released Java 6?
if the person signs up for a free developer account they can go get Java 6 from the apple site. It aint that hard adn it completely free. And unless there is some certain new features in Java 6 that are imperative to his programming then java 5 is probably close enough.

It makes me sad to see you guys praise products such as the macbook air... What's so special?
I am sure there is a market for the product. If it anit for you then don't bother bringing it up.

Apple TV... a failure... Im anxious to see how well TAKE 2 works out for Steve Jobs... Im sure now that it's been mentioned twice some people will feel obligated to buy it.
The new Apple TV is much better in my opinion. with the ability to use it without a computer and with all the movie companies on board i think this Take 2 will do better. If i had a need for one i would buy one. But i have a full blown HTPC running XP Pro and Media Protal.

I don't need a "genius" to tell me that the reason why my Mac Pro crashes so much is because I have a Microsoft mouse plugged into the USB port.
That is a microsoft driver problem, don't balme apple for that. also don't bash the geniuses as you might actually need them one day. Just because you know what is causing the problem on your computer does not mean everyone else does.

Would they sell me another sorry "Mighty mouse"??? What kind of design is the mighty mouse? Who uses and enjoys using a mighty mouse?
My parents use and love there mighty mouse. Why?? Because it has the scroll ball and only one button. They want simple but like having the scroll ball there. If i turn on the mighty mouse as a two button they have not the slightest clue what the hell is happening.

Why does Apple try and simplify computing and downplay the complexity of PC's yet they offer these bozo services such as training which shows me how to use Apple products? I thought Apple products just work?

Seriously, wtf. This is just... Just because you know how to use the programs does not mean that my 65 year old grandma does. if the training things at the apple store were not popular they would stop giving them, plain and simple. They give training on all sorts of things from iPhoto and the iLife apps to pro apps like Final Cut



Apple has always, and probably will always, survive on creating the hype that surrounds there products. It helps and it hurts. Just look at how Green Peace attacks apple VERY publicly while not going after other computer companies that could have the same or worse record.

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 10:02 AM
I'm not trying to denounce the Macbook Air guys... Sure this is a nifty product and will fit the requirement for a lot of people. I know better than to be ignorant and bash a product simply because it is not right for me. When I say what's the big deal...I basically mean, this product to me isn't all that revolutionary. Sure it's thin and sexy...But it pays the price for being thin and sexy... Just like every other small form factor laptop ever made... As for the other guy comparing the MBA to his Toughbook... Is that a real comparison? I thought Toughbooks were the ruggedized notebooks? Sounds like the Toughbook and Macbook Air are in two different categories.

DaLurker
Feb 1, 2008, 10:03 AM
I concur, there is a certain level of fanboyism here on this otherwise useful forum.

A lot of times when there's a problem or a concern, they write it off to two things: 1) You don't know OS X/Apple 2) Its perfect that way.

To all you fanboys out there: Apple isn't perfect. OS X has it flaws!

Now let me make one thing clear, not ALL Apple users are fanboys.

Anyways, I enjoyed your rant and I share your discord. Now put on your flame suit :)

netdog
Feb 1, 2008, 10:04 AM
Who cares?

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 10:10 AM
I concur, there is a certain level of fanboyism here on this otherwise useful forum.

A lot of times when there's a problem or a concern, they write it off to two things: 1) You don't know OS X/Apple 2) Its perfect that way.

To all you fanboys out there: Apple isn't perfect. OS X has it flaws!

Now let me make one thing clear, not ALL Apple users are fanboys.

Anyways, I enjoyed your rant and I share your discord. Now put on your flame suit :)

Hahaha Thanks... I know speaking of this in this forum is asking for trouble. I think that sometimes the "closed" architecture of apple hardware/software really causes a lot of the frustrations with me.

mashoutposse
Feb 1, 2008, 10:13 AM
How does this...

Steve Jobs could re-invent the pet rock and you guys would be lined up ready to buy one.

...jive with this...

Apple TV... a failure...

...?

Maybe all of the enthusiasm surrounding Apple is because they've actually made a string of great products? MB, MBP, Mac Pro, iPod, iPhone, OSX -- these are all excellent, proven top-flight products.

Or are you suggesting that they aren't?

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 10:20 AM
How does this...



...jive with this...



...?

Maybe all of the enthusiasm surrounding Apple is because they've actually made a string of great products? MB, MBP, Mac Pro, iPod, iPhone, OSX -- these are all excellent, proven top-flight products.

Or are you suggesting that they aren't?

Is it supposed to jive??? They are two different statements.

Sure all those products are great, but my rant is that some of the issues we have to deal with are ridiculous. I find its like take two steps forward and one step back. Apple releases a great product...Then you deal with some silly issues that were once NORMAL issues 10+yrs ago. It just makes me frustrated to try out a great apple product or feature and almost foresee a potential problem and say to myself "nah they probably worked that out if I'm thinking of it". Then to my disappointment, the feature fails.

Petrogk
Feb 1, 2008, 10:22 AM
Hey Toughbook guy here :p

There are 2 lines of Toughbooks. The rugged ones and the business ones.

The business ones are some of the lightest, smallest, full featured laptops around. But they are slow....like most thin notebooks IMO
(I should add they have some of the coolest optical drives ever!)

Check them out http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/business-rugged-computers.asp

Eric1285
Feb 1, 2008, 10:24 AM
I use a mighty mouse, and I think it's fine. I love the scroll ball. It's not very ergonomic, but even with my large hands I've had no problems.

CJRhoades
Feb 1, 2008, 10:37 AM
How exactly is Apple TV a failure. I love mine and use it all the time and it's never gone wrong. I don't love it because I'm a fan-boy or something. I use windows quite often too. Both OSs have their flaws. Yet, I just like OS X a bit more.

sanford
Feb 1, 2008, 10:46 AM
Screen-sharing works fine for us over a plain old D-Link 802.11g wired/wireless router. In mixed mode, even.

Apple TV is great. Like any other "media center" except without all the idiotic complications of configuration. I don't care if anyone ever buys another one; I like mine and it's by far the best, easiest to use "media center" on the market.

Copy/paste on iPhone I'd like. The problem is how to do it within the iPhone interface, not because they don't think it should be there. You can ding 'em for being dense and slow, but not for keeping such a common feature out with intent. Believe me, Apple wants copy/paste on the iPhone. But quick.

The MacBook Air is a *fashion* item. You know, like a nice, expensive watch. My $8 Wal-Mart digital does the job, even looks like it costs $50. I like it because I can bang it around -- lifelong disequilibrium due to organic pathology; or too much Scotch, depending -- and not care if I have to replace it. But it's not a slick, fashionable timepiece, that's for sure.

Anyway, I like the MB Air. If I could live in 80GB I'd buy one. Although the other limitations don't matter to me, for my particular type of work. But I don't think I can live in 80GB and *I will not go back to keeping up with two computers as I fell on my knees and sobbed the day I was totally happy with a portable to the point I didn't feel like I missed having a desktop, too*. Technically, I could live in 80GB, by sticking my iTunes library on an external USB2 drive for syncing with my iPhone. But then I have to back up the MB Air internal drive *and* the external USB2 drive to *another* USB2 drive via Time Machine, because if both my Time Machine back-up and my iTunes library are on the same external drive, and that whole drive goes, not just the a second partition with the iTunes library on it, the iTunes library is not also on the MB Air, so I have to rerip like 1,200 CDs or so -- which is only a portion of my collection, anyway -- and the day -- ahem, month -- I have to do that is the day I buy a portable CD player and forget this digital music thing. This all sounds like too much freaking hassle for fashion.

So, say the MB Air had a 160GB drive, or say I had far less music and didn't add as much semi-monthly, my new MB Air would be winging it's way to me as we speak. But I'd also tell you *exactly* why I bought it, replacing my MacBook, over nothing new or just a newer MacBook: Because I think that things *looks good*! Doo-wop... Fashion.

The MB Air is designed to make you want it 'cause it's *looks* like hot stuff. So what? You can't tell me you haven't ever bought anything on form over function? Paid more for that form, probably, too. As for the posters on these forums who will tell you it's a perfect, highly practical solution to someone who needs blah blah certain blah blah features in portability, and they'll beat you up if you point out it's an impractical fashion item compared to other available Mac portables... Well that's what you call *rationalization* of *indulgence*. More commonly known as "kidding yourself". You know, like I'll just go ahead and stay at the pub another hour, drink a couple glasses of water before bed, sleep in an extra half hour, I'll feel great tomorrow, no problem. When met with this, you just laugh and keep walking, like running across any other whackjob on the street.

I want to take this opportunity to let out some frustrations that have been boiling inside of me for a while. I have been a Microsoft guy for quite some time and switched over to Apple last year. My reasons for making the switch was mainly because I did not see anything worthwhile in Vista and I liked the new features Leopard and felt that they would get good use. One thing that I have noticed since becoming an Apple user is that there is an overwhelming amount of fanboy activity which downright makes me feel like a giant vag. Steve Jobs could re-invent the pet rock and you guys would be lined up ready to buy one. Even if you had already just purchased the pet pebble 2 months earlier. And to top it off, you would all be rushing to upload your video to proudly show us how to properly unbox our pet rock because, afterall, this is an Apple product and because Steve Jobs hypes it up so much it must be so revolutionary and ground breaking?!?! Who the hell posts unboxing videos/pics??? Why does Apple tout products and features like they are the pioneers? Why does the Back to my Mac feature rely on UPnP for routers and not simply port forwarding/NAT? Why the hell do I need an Airport which costs twice as much as any standard router in order to do screen sharing? Is it because screen sharing has only been tested with a handful of 3rd party routers??? It's about time screen sharing has become available, but I must say, Microsoft Remote Desktop sets up so much easier. Why in 2008 do I have duplicate entries in my Calendar and Address Book because I synced up with .Mac? I thought that sort of problem was the norm in 1997 with Palm Pilots and Psions? Why did I get duplicate widgets when syncing my widgets with .mac? I assumed that would be an OBVIOUS problem and I was so disgusted to see duplicate widgets on both of my Macs after syncing... Come on guys, it's 2008... People expect crap to just freakin work... Especially syncing.... Who really wants to futz around with this kind of crap? Why does one of the biggest Apple fans (who happens to sit 5ft away from me as I type this) have so much anger and frustration at Apple and Steve Jobs? Is it because he was one of the first to purchase the iPhone and has since been let down and still cannot copy/paste? Is it because in 2008 Safari crashes countless times on basic web sites? Is it because as a developer, he has sold his customer on Apple products and he still remains in a development stage because Apple has not released Java 6? It's been 1yr since Sun released Java 6... Get on it Steve!!!

It makes me sad to see you guys praise products such as the macbook air... What's so special? Apple TV... a failure... Im anxious to see how well TAKE 2 works out for Steve Jobs... Im sure now that it's been mentioned twice some people will feel obligated to buy it. Don't get me wrong, I still feel that Leopard is a better OS compared to Vista. But I am ashamed to walk into an Apple store only because the typical Apple fan is the epitome of the geek that I do not want to be associated with. I don't need a "genius" to tell me that the reason why my Mac Pro crashes so much is because I have a Microsoft mouse plugged into the USB port. Would they sell me another sorry "Mighty mouse"??? What kind of design is the mighty mouse? Who uses and enjoys using a mighty mouse? Why does Apple try and simplify computing and downplay the complexity of PC's yet they offer these bozo services such as training which shows me how to use Apple products? I thought Apple products just work?

Anderson3133
Feb 1, 2008, 10:48 AM
Hahaha Thanks... I know speaking of this in this forum is asking for trouble. I think that sometimes the "closed" architecture of apple hardware/software really causes a lot of the frustrations with me.

Trust us, we understand. They are monopolizing their products to work with one another. A great example is the MBA. The superdrive strictly works with the MBA, for music and movies you are expected to use iTunes. And once again with their iPods and iPhones. It's business, and they are trying to mak money since they know their fanboys will "oooh and ahhh" about any product Steve says is cool.

Don't get me wrong, I love Apple's products, but it is kind of rediculous.

design-is
Feb 1, 2008, 10:49 AM
How do you really feel? Maybe I can assist you in remember why you were drawn to applehttp://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/2e680b8d-211e-41c5-a0bf-9ccc6d7e62a21033.mspx

This had to be given feedback... :D

iLao
Feb 1, 2008, 10:50 AM
and 2GB of RAM...which is plenty you crazy people who complain about the MBA's RAM

We are complaining cuz it isn't upgradable.:)

Personaly, I am only a Mac OS X fanboy. I really don't like iMacs that much, becouse it isnt very upgradable.(RAM is OK, but YOU CANT BUY BETTER GRAPHICS:mad: ), and Macs are just too expensive for me. Even iPods price is 50% bigger in my country than in US. (I hate that very much)

sanford
Feb 1, 2008, 10:52 AM
... They are monopolizing their products to work with one another. A great example is the MBA. ...for music and movies you are expected to use iTunes... It's business, and they are trying to mak money since they know their fanboys will 'oooh and ahhh' about any product Steve says is cool...

Damn, Anderson, a brain. Where did you come by that? You should share it around, though; that would make life more pleasant around here.

efp722
Feb 1, 2008, 10:54 AM
sorry you feel that way.


also, airport extreme is not needed for screen sharing.

Raid
Feb 1, 2008, 11:05 AM
<snip>One thing that I have noticed since becoming an Apple user is that there is an overwhelming amount of fanboy activity which downright makes me feel like a giant vag.</snip>

I concur, there is a certain level of fanboyism here on this otherwise useful forum.

A lot of times when there's a problem or a concern, they write it off to two things: 1) You don't know OS X/Apple 2) Its perfect that way.

To all you fanboys out there: Apple isn't perfect. OS X has it flaws!

Now let me make one thing clear, not ALL Apple users are fanboys.

Anyways, I enjoyed your rant and I share your discord. Now put on your flame suit :) I think the problem really isn't fanboys... but being labeled as such if you have a different opinion that defends Apple. I think you would be hard pressed to find a single poster here that has take Apple side 100% or thought Apple could not improve in anyway. Calling somebody a 'fanboy' really tries to invalidate their favorable opinion and reinforce others (or your) opinion on the issue at hand.

The honest truth is that peoples opinions can vary widely and we should accept them or politely and factually state our reasons for our own opinions. Unfortunately some are unwilling to engage in a discussion at a level that you (or they) find rational or well thought out... maybe we ourselves get a little tired or emotional about defending an opinion (it happens), but take it all in stride.

Calling people 'fanboys' really accomplishes nothing but foster ill reactions to what otherwise would be a constructive discussion.

mashoutposse
Feb 1, 2008, 11:11 AM
Is it supposed to jive??? They are two different statements.

Apple TV is generally considered a failure because of its unremarkable performance at retail. There is no "Take 2" if they're flying off of the shelves. This is contradictory to your suggestion that Apple fans buy anything the company releases regardless of quality.

Sure all those products are great, but my rant is that some of the issues we have to deal with are ridiculous. I find its like take two steps forward and one step back. Apple releases a great product...Then you deal with some silly issues that were once NORMAL issues 10+yrs ago. It just makes me frustrated to try out a great apple product or feature and almost foresee a potential problem and say to myself "nah they probably worked that out if I'm thinking of it". Then to my disappointment, the feature fails.

There are more than a few annoying quirks in Apple hardware/software; however, the fact of the matter is that in many cases the Apple product still remains the best alternative. For example, iPhone -- it is by no means perfect, but it is still arguably the best the cellphone industry has to offer overall (on the consumer side). I'm typing this out on it now, something I never would have done with anything I've owned previously.

Eric Piercey
Feb 1, 2008, 11:17 AM
OP - hilarious post. While I agree with most things you said (and disagree with others), you won't find a hospitable home to your thoughts here.

The thing about the unboxing pics and vids - so funny and true. I never understood that myself.

I allow license to kids/ young folks. That's a lot of money to them and probably one their first big purchases. They're excited. No big. I used to own an MR-2 Spyder and the boards over there were really nuts! People would post pics.. nay movies of them unboxing their new exhausts and such, and god forbid they put on a body kit. They'd start posting pics of their invoice the second they ordered it, the screwdriver they pried the box open with... the cat bed they made from the box.. Life is hell without a grain of salt and a sense of humor.

madmaxmedia
Feb 1, 2008, 11:20 AM
The MBA superdrive needs extra juice to be powered over a single USB port, more juice than what regular USB ports provide. That's why it only works with the MBA (which includes the high power USB port specifically for the superdrive.) For other Macs you can buy a regular external drive that either uses 2 USB ports (for the extra juice), or one with an AC adapter.

As far as music and movie playback, I'm not sure what you mean. You don't have to use iTunes on any Mac computer. And you can use any number of music players with a Mac. They bundle iTunes with Mac OS X because almost everyone listens to music on their computer, so it makes sense to provide an app in the OS. Just like Windows comes with WMP, but you can use other software as well.

Apple does some things that seem unnecessarily restrictive and at times even user-hostile, just not sure your examples really illustrate that.

Trust us, we understand. They are monopolizing their products to work with one another. A great example is the MBA. The superdrive strictly works with the MBA, for music and movies you are expected to use iTunes. And once again with their iPods and iPhones. It's business, and they are trying to mak money since they know their fanboys will "oooh and ahhh" about any product Steve says is cool.

Don't get me wrong, I love Apple's products, but it is kind of rediculous.

digitalnicotine
Feb 1, 2008, 11:23 AM
This was hilarious to read, OP. I'm not laughing at your struggles, just in how you express them with so much passion. I have to agree about the fanboy issue. The arrogance alone is just...stunning. But fortunately, most (I hope!) Mac users are not members of the fanboy religion, and don't worship at the Apple alter. Most of us get excited for new product releases, and purchase a few here and there, budget and need permitting. No Steve Jobs worship required. LOL

I'm sorry you've run into so many issues, and hope you are able to get them resolved to your satisfaction. I haven't upgraded to Leopard yet, and likely won't for several months. I'm sure the new bells and whistles are fab, but I'll wait until they are working properly and support multiple options before taking the leap myself. My switch experience was rather smooth, but we all have different computing needs, and I can see where things can go wrong for others. It's rarely a fun experience with new OS's that are only a few months old/released. You have a lot more patience than me!

I'm still giggling about your rant, though. Honestly, there's no mystery as to why so much of Apple products are proprietary at this point. It's the same as any other business. What methods net the most profit? Microsoft's 'monopoly' has allowed them to make a lot of partnerships with 3rd party companies, and therefore has a lot fewer compatibility issues and a lot more options/choices. Hopefully, in time, Apple will be able to do this more and more, and many of these issues will disappear, and we'll all be better off. But until then, we just have to shop wisely for our specific needs. In my case, I use both platforms for different things, and am relieved to realize now just how lucky I've been to have so few issues pop up along the way. Good luck to you, sir. :)

meagain
Feb 1, 2008, 11:27 AM
I could've sworn I've read an almost identical post to the OP's just a week ago. Hmmm......

I've not spent the time to read it fully, but does the OP have a MacBook Air?

phoxrenvatio
Feb 1, 2008, 11:36 AM
I could've sworn I've read an almost identical post to the OP's just a week ago. Hmmm......

I've not spent the time to read it fully, but does the OP have a MacBook Air?

he said sumthin bout a mac pro, then bashed airbook, so i doubt it

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 11:44 AM
he said sumthin bout a mac pro, then bashed airbook, so i doubt it

hahaha conspiracy theory... Another issue i forgot to mention which somewhat relates to the fanboyism is the conspiracy theories :) Does looking at source html and domain registrations ring a bell???

jeroensikma
Feb 1, 2008, 11:45 AM
The thing I like about Apple and Steve Jobs is the simple thing is that they
THINK about things that, like Microsoft, isn't thinking about.

First: Things like design and letterspacing wich make it look good. Leave everything that you DON'T need and you good a great looking product.

Second: They don't throw just a product in the market. They try to make something better. That's why I love the Iphone.

That's why I buy Apple products.
And looking forward to 10.5.2 because leopard has some serious issues...

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 11:50 AM
To everyone who says BTMM has worked without a hitch... I salute you and you have been very fortunate. I have countless articles addressing the issue at hand. I have port forwarded the proper ports to bypass UPnP but something just doesnt play right with BTMM and some routers... See these great articles...

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6308638
http://forums.linksys.com/linksys/board/message?board.id=Wireless_Routers&thread.id=15705&view=by_date_ascending&page=1


Why does Apple's own site only list 34 routers that are compatible with BTMM?
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306803
If simple port forwarding would work, then wouldn't just about every router work?

pianoman
Feb 1, 2008, 11:55 AM
i don't understand why people get a kick out of the unboxing pictures and videos.

but they do. so what can you do?

aristobrat
Feb 1, 2008, 12:02 PM
To everyone who says BTMM has worked without a hitch... I salute you and you have been very fortunate.
Who in this thread has made that claim? :confused:

And if there are 34 routers that work with BTMM, why would you post that you need an Airport that costs twice as much as another router?

Why do BitTorrent programs like Azureus, Transmission, uTorrent, etc only UPnP properly with some routers and not all?

tstarks33
Feb 1, 2008, 12:04 PM
Apple TV is generally considered a failure because of its unremarkable performance at retail. There is no "Take 2" if they're flying off of the shelves. This is contradictory to your suggestion that Apple fans buy anything the company releases regardless of quality.


Come on, do you think he literally meant every single product apple ever makes is a complete success? You know what he means.

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 12:09 PM
Who in this thread has made that claim? :confused:

And if there are 34 routers that work with BTMM, why would you post that you need an Airport that costs twice as much as another router?

Why do BitTorrent programs like Azureus, Transmission, uTorrent, etc only UPnP properly with some routers and not all?

Well, do you have it working with your router?

aristobrat
Feb 1, 2008, 12:26 PM
Well, do you have it working with your router?
I only have one Mac, and it's almost always with me, so I've never tried it.

My point was that I've never seen any application that uses UPnP consistently work with every router. Plus, I've had the personal experience of applications (on Windows and OS X) that were handing UPnP fine "breaking" upon a new update, only to be fixed with a subsequent update. My router config remained the same the entire time.

I'm sorry that you're having problems getting BTTM to work for you, but like with other UPnP programs that have had similar UPnP issues, I'd be very surprised if it's not solved by a software update sometime in the future.

reybart
Feb 1, 2008, 12:37 PM
im only going to chime in on the "why the unboxing videos and pics".

part of it is just sharing man. mac users are happy to see others get new Apple prods. lots view them cuz not everyone can afoord one on release day... but they still want the experience of seeing inside. third, since a great deal of apples base users are in design or creative, the packaging solutions are often amazing.

+ one. I am not a heavy user but I always prioritize the aesthetic value of a product and I found that to apple products. It would complement my condo. I also believe that when you buy pruducts which are "expensive", you will take care of them graciously.

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 12:47 PM
I also believe that when you buy pruducts which are "expensive", you will take care of them graciously.

I completely agree and believe this is part of the major reason why people act as they do with Apple products. But what's gets me the most is the fact that these people are all under the spell of big Stevie Jobs... I mean sure, it's all expensive...Sure a lot of it is great products. But what are you paying for? The hardware? The software? The name? The closed architecture? The way I look at it is Apple sells software. When you buy a macbook...You're buying Leopard and it just happens to be held inside of a device called a macbook or an imac or a mac pro etc... Sure the device is nice looking...And the relationship apple makes between their chosen hardware and their software is supposed to cut down on wacky issues. But when it all comes down to it, you're buying a computer and the operating system. Apple just inflates the price because of the "value" that is perceived when one buys into this whole way of thinking. In the end, hardware is hardware and if Dell can sell a kick-ass system for half the price of a mac pro of similar specs then that is crap. And that is why people are fooled into feeling like they are to treat their beloved macs like little pet hamsters or poodles... Because they spent too much money over and over on apple products and need to make themselves feel better by putting their products on a pedestal.

FYI - This is not directed at you specifically

aristobrat
Feb 1, 2008, 12:55 PM
Apple just inflates the price because of the "value" that is perceived when one buys into this whole way of thinking. In the end, hardware is hardware and if Dell can sell a kick-ass system for half the price of a mac pro of similar specs then that is crap.
Meanwhile, Apple continues as a profitable company while Dell tries to reinvent itself as their profit and marketshare continues to fall.

It'll be interesting to see how long Dell continues to deeply discount its hardware prices, as without that discount, their comparable hardware is usually priced closer to Apple's price than most people are aware of.

Have you compared the Dell One to an iMac lately?

diabolic
Feb 1, 2008, 12:59 PM
In the end, hardware is hardware and if Dell can sell a kick-ass system for half the price of a mac pro of similar specs then that is crap.

That is simply not true. Dell hasn't made a single laptop that aesthetically comes close to any Apple design, and I have owned several Dells. The attention to design is considered a feature. Maybe not by you, but it is one. There is actual added value there.

What you are ranting against is Apple's core business model. If they made OSX available for non-Mac systems, they would lose tons of money.

kuwisdelu
Feb 1, 2008, 01:43 PM
We've had this discussion before. What I said before was, yes, if you go component-for-component hardware and software-wise, then Apple is charging you more than a comparative discounted PC. But a computer is much more than hardware and software for many people. I find Macs to many times more than simply the sum of their parts; you're paying for an excellent computing experience all around (at least I did...too bad you haven't had as good a time with Macs). Sometimes the whole is more than simply the sum of its parts. And if the added money ensures Apple continues to deliver great, quality products, then for me it was well worth it. If the extra money I paid for the hardware in my MacBook goes into R&D that will deliver me a 2nd generation MacBook Air with 128GB SSD, 4GM RAM, 2+ GHz CPU, and <3 lbs when I go to make my next purchase....well I think that was a good investment. As a consumer of Apple products, I have a vested interest in Apple's continued success as a company, so they will continue to deliver me quality products.

Now this is simply responding to the financial aspects, etc....

As for blindly following Jobs? Really, who does that? The Apple fanboy who always agrees 100% with Jobs and buys every single product is a myth. We've all had our problems with Apple once in a while. We've all seen them go in directions while we wanted to see something in another. But that doesn't mean you have to follow. Don't like the MacBook Air? Don't get it. I'm not getting one until at least gen 2, because they're too pricey for me. Does that mean I think they're bad? Certainly not! I still want one; I'm just not going to get one. I defend their existence because there are people out there who will buy it; the MBA is VERY useful for many, many people. But not everyone. The same is true for every product out there. I see no need for an Apple TV. I don't have one. That's all there is to it.

That is simply not true. Dell hasn't made a single laptop that aesthetically comes close to any Apple design, and I have owned several Dells. The attention to design is considered a feature. Maybe not by you, but it is one. There is actual added value there.

What you are ranting against is Apple's core business model. If they made OSX available for non-Mac systems, they would lose tons of money.

I can attest to that; my last two laptops were Dells and they were ugly beasts of machines. The first was a mid-range, and the second was top-of-the-line when I bought it, with the best specs I could afford. I now have a mid-range MacBook that flies at its current age compared to how my old Dell slugged along when it was this old.

ArcaneDevice
Feb 1, 2008, 02:06 PM
Apple just inflates the price because of the "value" that is perceived when one buys into this whole way of thinking. In the end, hardware is hardware and if Dell can sell a kick-ass system for half the price of a mac pro of similar specs then that is crap. And that is why people are fooled into feeling like they are to treat their beloved macs like little pet hamsters or poodles... Because they spent too much money over and over on apple products and need to make themselves feel better by putting their products on a pedestal.

and that's precisely the same scenario for those who buy into the $5K+ Voodoo, Falcon Northwest, Hypersonic etc. boutique PC suppliers. What makes those worse is you really are buying off the shelf parts in a case that's been nicely painted.

At least when you overpay for Apple hardware it comes in custom designed hardware. Anyone could build a Falcon PC if they wanted to make the effort.

The best thing that Steve Jobs brought to his Apple return was Jonathan Ive. I've been an Apple user for <cough> 20 years <cough> and the industrial design and aesthetics of the Apple line for the past few years is the best it's ever been. Far better than any other PC manufacturer on the planet. People don't buy Bang and Olufsen for their amazing feature set and the same applies to Macs. The design and L&F is half the attraction.

With the exception of the Mighty Mouse which is just a ridiculous device that was designed by Steve's ego. His eyeballs would explode if he had to put an extra second button on a mouse.

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 02:51 PM
At least when you overpay for Apple hardware it comes in custom designed hardware. Anyone could build a Falcon PC if they wanted to make the effort.


So what's the difference between a Falcon and a Mac??? Seems like the same off-the-shelf designs to me.

I want to thank you guys for being so well behaved. I must say, I was hesitant to even post my rant but this morning I was immediately pissed off when I walked into work...It was caused by several stupid quirks that I have dealt with in recent days... .mac syncing/duplicating everything, BTMM and my coworker who has been beaten down to a pile of dust with Apple issue after apple issue. He has been left with no choice but to pirate Apple software in order to feel as though he is still getting a good value from Apple products. Thank you all for listening to me with an (mostly) open mind. And even acknowledging the faults that do exist. You've all made my day better. God bless!

pondie84
Feb 1, 2008, 02:56 PM
In regard to the OP's post commenting on unboxing pictures and videos... it's just a bit of fun. Lighten up!

Personally I like both Windows and Mac. I just use one or the other when I feel like it. It's not an either/or thing. You can use one as your main computer and the other as a notebook. Personally, I think Leopard is amazing but not the most intuitive... now I'm sure that comes from a lifetime of using Windows... but I'm willing to take the time to slowly learn!

stevegut78
Feb 1, 2008, 03:00 PM
I think pound for pound Leopard blows Vista out of the water. The interface is much better IMHO and it just seems to manage resources better than Vista. Not to mention the 50 different Vista flavors vs 1 Leopard that is full-featured.

Anderson3133
Feb 1, 2008, 03:01 PM
The MBA superdrive needs extra juice to be powered over a single USB port, more juice than what regular USB ports provide. That's why it only works with the MBA (which includes the high power USB port specifically for the superdrive.) For other Macs you can buy a regular external drive that either uses 2 USB ports (for the extra juice), or one with an AC adapter.

As far as music and movie playback, I'm not sure what you mean. You don't have to use iTunes on any Mac computer. And you can use any number of music players with a Mac. They bundle iTunes with Mac OS X because almost everyone listens to music on their computer, so it makes sense to provide an app in the OS. Just like Windows comes with WMP, but you can use other software as well.

Apple does some things that seem unnecessarily restrictive and at times even user-hostile, just not sure your examples really illustrate that.


It's a business. They do everything they do to make money. They tell you they add iTunes to make stuff convenient, but really they KNOW you will use it if it is on the computer. I am not saying Windows doesn't do the same... the topic at hand was Apple, so I was just using the same example. Every business tries to make stuff "user-hostile" to ensure you keep on purchasing their products. They are called product enhancers. If Apple made Mac OS X compatible with PC's, their sales numbers on computers would be abysmal. Think about it.

CVV1
Feb 1, 2008, 03:45 PM
hahaha that's pretty funny. I am not surprised microsoft has taken that approach. Vista is complete crap

I have used it, works for what I need.

Anderson3133
Feb 1, 2008, 03:52 PM
I have used it, works for what I need.

Same here.

ArcaneDevice
Feb 1, 2008, 04:22 PM
So what's the difference between a Falcon and a Mac??? Seems like the same off-the-shelf designs to me.


How many Falcon's have hardware designed specifically for them by Intel?

Have you seen a Falcon PC? It's literally parts you can buy from any computer retailer. From the motherboard to the case and the drives. you pay a 3-4K premium for assembly and a paint job.

Try and buy parts to build an Apple machine. You'll get hard drives, video cards and memory. Everything else is designed specifically for the Apple hardware. The chassis, cooling system, motherboard, PSU ...

Take the optical drive door on a Mac Pro. On any other PC that would be just the drive door of an OEM optical drive painted silver or a hinged door that just gets physically pushed aside. Or the fans inside which are Apple designed to use a slide in holder with a built-in PCB and not just another 80mm fan stuck in a generic case bracket.

stevegmu
Feb 1, 2008, 04:48 PM
Apple just inflates the price because of the "value" that is perceived when one buys into this whole way of thinking. In the end, hardware is hardware and if Dell can sell a kick-ass system for half the price of a mac pro of similar specs then that is crap. And that is why people are fooled into feeling like they are to treat their beloved macs like little pet hamsters or poodles... Because they spent too much money over and over on apple products and need to make themselves feel better by putting their products on a pedestal.



You must have missed all the cost of parts/licensing breakdowns- namely the ones by iSuppli, which show that Apple products are not inflated. They simply use more expensive parts.

LizKat
Feb 1, 2008, 05:48 PM
/snip/ Thank you all for listening to me with an (mostly) open mind. And even acknowledging the faults that do exist. You've all made my day better. God bless!

We are sending someone out to see if OP was kidnapped and someone swiped his passwords... ;)

I gotta sign onto your complaints about at least the dot-Mac sort of sync. I drew away from that after a couple of funky experiences where I wasn't quite sure what had happened but the results were less than stellar. I only use my idisk now for dragging up any actual files I might want to share to my other machines later. No more dotMac syncing bookmarks or addr books between machines. Maybe I'm cheating myself of great timesaving effects but I think of that day when I went "uh.. hmm. where's... hmm..." and put off my next sync adventure.

But I'm a big admirer of "awaiting shipment" threads and of unboxing photos, and I do keep my Apple / iPod boxes. One of my brothers used to josh me about it because I'd be so hyper as first-delivery days approached. "So did anybody put up a picture of the fricken BOX yet?" But, I noticed after the first nano came out he stopped making fun of me. I loaded a couple hundred songs onto my white nano and showed it to him and he went thumbing through the contents in complete silence. Finally he said "Damn. I could fit everything i own on this thing. What does the box look like?"

etorres
Feb 1, 2008, 06:05 PM
In answer to the original post...

Apple fanboyism is just part of the "culture" that has always sorrounded mac. I have been a mac user for over a year now and I actually think that part of the whole appeal of the mac experience is the fanboyism. I personally think Steve Jobs as a person is a deuschbag, but the man does have vision.
Then there is the mystique of Apple products. Microsoft usually announces new products years in advance while Apple keeps their cards pretty close to their chest, so you never know what's coming next. That anticipation and rumormongering just create an anticipation that you cannot find in any other company.

Yes, Apple is just another tech company that happens to make good products, but what actually SETS Apple apart from all others are precisely those fanboys you complain so much about. It is they who make Apple what it is and Apple knows it. Although they do occasionally threaten rumor sights with legal action when their "predictions" and "rumors" stray too close to the truth, all in all they pretty much leave them be and let the hype feed on itself. Even the legal threats are probably calculated to add to the Apple hype machine, pure marketing genius!

Apple also tends to have a kind of snobbish superiority complex that trickles down to the average mac user. But that is also part of the Apple "culture". In the end I have to say you are probably taking things too seriously. I see this more as an addition to my Apple experience and nothing more. Many copanies out there make windows machines which are excellent, and may compete with, and even exceed Apple computers in terms of features and price, but non can offer the unique experience of owning an Apple computer.

Apple computers are also beautiful machines. I bought a macbook air and I have to say nothing comes even close to it in beauty. Go to the nearest coffee shop and open up a brand new Sony TZ ultraportable with a macbook air right next to it and place your bet as to which one will get the more attention overall.

With that said the original poster had many valid and not so valid complaints, but in the end he just... doesnt get it.

ArcaneDevice
Feb 1, 2008, 06:25 PM
But I'm a big admirer of "awaiting shipment" threads and of unboxing photos, and I do keep my Apple / iPod boxes.

stevegmu doesn't seem to be aware that almost every piece of electronic hardware that's highly anticipated will be unboxed on the internet. It's not an Apple thing, it's a male thing.

Guys get excited by blinky lights and the boxes they come in.

Here's three recent examples:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/ps3-unboxing/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/15/samsung-bd-up5000-gets-unboxed/
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/displays/sonys-sexy-xel+1-oled-display-gets-unboxed-328859.php

ArcaneDevice
Feb 1, 2008, 06:31 PM
In answer to the original post...

Apple fanboyism is just part of the "culture" that has always sorrounded mac. I have been a mac user for over a year now and I actually think that part of the whole appeal of the mac experience is the fanboyism.

It is now, but that's only because of it's increased consumer interest. It used to be about celebrating being the underdog and appreciating something that was well designed and different to the Windows alternative.

I am in no way an Apple fanboy. I'll call them out on crap just as readily as I would any other consumer manufacturer.

Case in point the Air. I find it a great piece of engineering but a largely useless consumer device.

steve31
Feb 1, 2008, 06:33 PM
How do you really feel? Maybe I can assist you in remember why you were drawn to applehttp://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/2e680b8d-211e-41c5-a0bf-9ccc6d7e62a21033.mspx

:D VERY FUNNY

stevegmu
Feb 1, 2008, 07:42 PM
stevegmu doesn't seem to be aware that almost every piece of electronic hardware that's highly anticipated will be unboxed on the internet. It's not an Apple thing, it's a male thing.

Guys get excited by blinky lights and the boxes they come in.

Here's three recent examples:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/ps3-unboxing/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/15/samsung-bd-up5000-gets-unboxed/
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/displays/sonys-sexy-xel+1-oled-display-gets-unboxed-328859.php

I didn't say anything concerning unboxing. I posted in regards to price- post #57.

LizKat
Feb 1, 2008, 07:44 PM
stevegmu doesn't seem to be aware that almost every piece of electronic hardware that's highly anticipated will be unboxed on the internet. It's not an Apple thing, it's a male thing.

Guys get excited by blinky lights and the boxes they come in.

Here's three recent examples:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/ps3-unboxing/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/15/samsung-bd-up5000-gets-unboxed/
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/displays/sonys-sexy-xel+1-oled-display-gets-unboxed-328859.php

yeah being a girl i can do without the blinking lights (that really IS a guy thing, isn't it) but i love how apple does boxes. And how its designs for iPods and now the MacBook Air are at once so austere and so sexy. I've been known to photograph my iPods with silk and velvet wraps, or more famously the black and the white original nanos sitting in a bowl of plum tomatoes just picked from my garden... a nod to simplicity as a component of luxury.

omg did you look through the unboxing pics in the second link. the fifth picture in from the left, only the mother and father of the Samsung BD-UP5000 could love that picture or be thrilled at that stage of that unboxing. I won't fault the product but really they might pay for some interior box design pointers...

And, sigh, I have to say that the remote for that thing obviously has even the special buttons for get me a beer while you're up honey.

tuneman07
Feb 1, 2008, 08:57 PM
I agree the fanboy thing is a bit annoying with Macs but I find it very interesting as well. Just the fact that there are fanboys for Mac is intriguing to me because what other huge corporation has followers like that? There are a few but you don't see it with Microsoft. As much as they annoy me they did make me sort of think there must be something to this whole Mac thing. (I don't own a Mac and never have but am "switching" soon)

LizKat
Feb 2, 2008, 12:43 PM
It is now, but that's only because of it's increased consumer interest. It used to be about celebrating being the underdog and appreciating something that was well designed and different to the Windows alternative.

I am in no way an Apple fanboy. I'll call them out on crap just as readily as I would any other consumer manufacturer.

Case in point the Air. I find it a great piece of engineering but a largely useless consumer device.

:D now wait a sec. didn't you say that once about indoor plumbing? :confused:

Having purchased the MB Air, I will report promptly if it's useless!

DesignerOnMac
Feb 2, 2008, 01:18 PM
So what's the difference between a Falcon and a Mac??? Seems like the same off-the-shelf designs to me.

I want to thank you guys for being so well behaved. I must say, I was hesitant to even post my rant but this morning I was immediately pissed off when I walked into work...It was caused by several stupid quirks that I have dealt with in recent days... .mac syncing/duplicating everything, BTMM and my coworker who has been beaten down to a pile of dust with Apple issue after apple issue. He has been left with no choice but to pirate Apple software in order to feel as though he is still getting a good value from Apple products. Thank you all for listening to me with an (mostly) open mind. And even acknowledging the faults that do exist. You've all made my day better. God bless!

I have been an Apple user since 1988. I have purchased computers, monitors, ibooks, powerbooks, and iPods.

In all this time I guess I have been very lucky. I have only had 2 issues with software or sending a product back to Apple for repair. I have not had to pirate software, etc.

I had a Quadra 800 that had a failed HD, Apple sent a repair man to my studio, checked it out, ordered a new one, and returned to install it, (I could have done this myself.)

One iBook had some keys fall off, sent it to Apple, they paid for shipping both ways and I had it back in 2 days with no costs to me.

I started out with system 5 and have paid for every up grade of the OS since. I have had a few issues with some software and a couple of computers, but not like my PC friends. Nowhere near as many issues.

I am sorry you and your coworker have had issues, I wish you a better computing experience in the future.

One question: Has either you or your coworker called Apple tech support to resolve these issues? You do not say if your did or not!

sanford
Feb 2, 2008, 01:37 PM
:D now wait a sec. didn't you say that once about indoor plumbing? :confused:

Having purchased the MB Air, I will report promptly if it's useless!

For stevegut78, the OP, if he's still around: you originally wrote "screen-sharing", brother. *That* works fine on our D-Link router. BTTM is a mess.

For LizKat, "useless" isn't fair, or accurate. Impractical in comparison to other products in the Apple notebook line, that's fair. But I'm betting you didn't buy your Air on purely practical considerations. It's the defense of Air purchase, among some Air purchasers on this forum, by defining it as the perfectly engineered portable solution for some people -- having nothing to do with fashion or cachet or just ooh, shiny, gimme -- when it's no such thing for anyone, that drives some people up a wall. And you probably wouldn't argue the Air's aesthetic pleasantries weren't you first consideration in this case . But the Air is hardly useless.

In fact, put a 160GB drive in it, or steal more than half my CDs, blank the rips of them, blank my back-up drive, I'm there. I just won't go back to dealing with two Macs at once; I want everything on one portable*. Of course if I did buy one, I'll tell you flat-out I picked the Air over a regular MacBook -- which is still a very nice-looking kit -- because it I think it looks super whizzy cool, not because it's better or some kind of engineering marvel of thin, light design *and* practicality.

*I reserve the right anytime before they release a model with more hard drive storage to crater and buy one anyway. But for now, I'm holding on my current personal model, I believe a very good one, of most-efficient personal computing.

p.s. I'm male. I like Apple's boxes. Still the unboxing photos and movies seem whack to me, but to each his own. Now, for you, LizKat, I used to live pretty near the Catskills. I can see, in winter, smack dead middle of the Catskills, a nice selection of Apple unboxing photos might break the tedium a bit, keep you from axe-murdering your family and maybe the neighbors down the road.

p.p.s. I keep updating this silly post when I could be doing more practical things myself, but the UK novelist Will Self who once entirely embraced personal computers for his work -- the implication is he then became obsessive in using them for everything -- said in an interview maybe six months or a year back, he had become disenfranchised with computers as lifestyle foci, and he now wanted a notebook computer he could use for work or any other thing he wished to do with it, but one and only one which he could easily upend on a shelf off his desk, like a real book, when he wasn't using it. I reached that determination myself almost a year before *I read* he'd said this -- he may well have come to it first -- and the original MacBook hit that sweet spot for me: enough of everything, not much of everything else. The Air would certainly make for a thinner, lighter "book" to shelve up off my desk when not in use, but there's not enough value in that for the trouble in working out solutions to supplement the current inbuilt storage limitations. That's my only complaint.

EvryDayImShufln
Feb 2, 2008, 02:42 PM
Honestly, don't expect every product apple coughs out to be perfect. I use a Macbook Pro SR and I'm perfectly happy with it: I don't want an apple TV, I don't have an airport extreme, or a BT mighty mouse, and I don't plan to buy a Macbook Air.

I don't need my house to be ubiquitously lined with Apple products. I'll just buy key products from companies that make good ones. And since Apple makes good computers and a good OS, that's what I have.

LizKat
Feb 2, 2008, 02:48 PM
Hey I'm not who said MacBook Air could be useless.

ArcaneDevice was who found it "it a great piece of engineering but a largely useless consumer device." I said I had bought it and would report if it proved useless. I did buy it for the weight. And, as a complementary machine. I cannot lug a 15" book up and downstairs all day any more. The work I ask of the Air is within its spec. The powerbooks are like desktops to me and now they'll be exclusively that. So how is that not perfect. For me. The buyer.

Would I like it more if it had 320Gb flash in there? I dunno, how much does that weigh? Same with the "missing" ports. Who needs them, they're down on the powerbooks and near a row of hard drives and other storage.

If the Air had looked really ugly to me would I have sprung a rat car's worth of money for it? Maybe. I wanted the 3 pounds!!! I'd have painted it bright yellow so that it could have been seen immediately as unmistakably ugly, in a sort of campy way.

As for the weather: yep, the Catskills in winter are a trip, especially when some nor'easter gets parked for awhile. Then you can't even get to your neighbor's place whether to borrow sugar or just commit axe murders when the cabin fever sets in. Fortunately I don't suffer from that syndrome. Or haven't so far. But I do really stock up in winter. Pantry looks like a survivalist fanatic lives here. And, one does. I want to live even if I can't get out for a month!

Winter means not being interrupted as much. In summer, people think to just "stop by" any time when they're not busy, doh. Because they come here when they're on vacation, we must be free to chat them up? Hmm. Bring on the snow! But I could do with less of the ice than what got dished out around here yesterday...

Catch
Feb 2, 2008, 02:54 PM
I want to take this opportunity to let out some frustrations that have been boiling inside of me for a while. I have been a Microsoft guy for quite some time and switched over to Apple last year. My reasons for making the switch was mainly because I did not see anything worthwhile in Vista and I liked the new features Leopard and felt that they would get good use. One thing that I have noticed since becoming an Apple user is that there is an overwhelming amount of fanboy activity which downright makes me feel like a giant vag.

Without reading the whole thread, I would like to say that this is an incredible post giving the 'site'. Obviously you will find ALL the fanatics on here! I have been a member since 2004 and hardly posted anything since then, as all I wanted was the 'gossip'.

I would say that less than 1% of Mac users are represented on here. How on earth can this make you feel that the OSX platform is a problem?

I love the fact that since 2004, there are still posts that amazes me!

Enjoy your hardware as it is very nice, but not the only way to live... :)

Regards,


C

Catch
Feb 2, 2008, 02:59 PM
I agree the fanboy thing is a bit annoying with Macs but I find it very interesting as well. Just the fact that there are fanboys for Mac is intriguing to me because what other huge corporation has followers like that? There are a few but you don't see it with Microsoft. As much as they annoy me they did make me sort of think there must be something to this whole Mac thing. (I don't own a Mac and never have but am "switching" soon)

If you had followed the life of this product you would understand why people are fanatical, or at least you would be able to appreciate how 'unlikely' we are to be here today. The Mac platform is a roller coaster ride from start to finish...

The guys who were laughed out of the room for using one only six years ago, are now experiencing a resurgence in the platform...

Regards,

C

sanford
Feb 2, 2008, 04:35 PM
Liz,

I caught that you didn't say it was useless. I was just backing up your feeling it's not useless.

There you kinda go, though, with the Air. I wasn't thinking of the PowerBook, rather a MacBook or MacBook Pro. Now, the Pro is more costly. The Air, slower with fewer features, connectivity and storage, is a $600 premium over the MacBook, for 2.2 pounds lighter -- essentially the weight of a pretty standard hardback novel; or a thick paperbound volume. Unless you're disabled -- and you may be, and I don't mean any offense at all writing this -- that 2 pounds is nothing by itself, lugging up and downstairs or not. So it seems like maybe, I'm just suggesting, you're a teensy bit justifying your aesthetics-favoring purchase with the practical notion of a lighter weight that isn't nearly as much as it may seem. And, all my point is, if you bought it over, say, a less expensive, more full-featured MacBook merely because you really like how it looks, I don't think you have to rationalize or justify it in any way.

In the event, no matter. If the two pounds is perceptively that much lighter to you, that's all that counts. Plus my perspective is different: up until a month ago, when both of them could finally, safely climb stairs, me trailing behind them as the security "catcher", I'd been, over the course of about three years, lugging two boys, eventually although at different times up to about 20 pounds each, and at one time about sum 35 pounds carrying both, up and down the stairs. A 10-pound Dell laptop monstrosity would, by comparison, be like an iPhone.

Please don't paint it yellow. Although, perhaps ironically, a lot of people would find that even "cooler".

As for the Catskills and surrounding region in winter, yes, I loved it. Quiet. Left alone. Back when I lived there, phone lines weren't redundant by whatever systems they have today; of course they tended to snap in snowstorms, so not even many phone calls. Bliss. (Ice often got the power, too, which was not quite as pleasant.) Starting late, late spring, lovely weather, weekenders and other summer people crawling all over the place like the NTSB on a commercial airline crash site. Ugh.

Hey I'm not who said MacBook Air could be useless.

ArcaneDevice was who found it "it a great piece of engineering but a largely useless consumer device." I said I had bought it and would report if it proved useless. I did buy it for the weight. And, as a complementary machine. I cannot lug a 15" book up and downstairs all day any more. The work I ask of the Air is within its spec. The powerbooks are like desktops to me and now they'll be exclusively that. So how is that not perfect. For me. The buyer.

Would I like it more if it had 320Gb flash in there? I dunno, how much does that weigh? Same with the "missing" ports. Who needs them, they're down on the powerbooks and near a row of hard drives and other storage.

If the Air had looked really ugly to me would I have sprung a rat car's worth of money for it? Maybe. I wanted the 3 pounds!!! I'd have painted it bright yellow so that it could have been seen immediately as unmistakably ugly, in a sort of campy way.

As for the weather: yep, the Catskills in winter are a trip, especially when some nor'easter gets parked for awhile. Then you can't even get to your neighbor's place whether to borrow sugar or just commit axe murders when the cabin fever sets in. Fortunately I don't suffer from that syndrome. Or haven't so far. But I do really stock up in winter. Pantry looks like a survivalist fanatic lives here. And, one does. I want to live even if I can't get out for a month!

Winter means not being interrupted as much. In summer, people think to just "stop by" any time when they're not busy, doh. Because they come here when they're on vacation, we must be free to chat them up? Hmm. Bring on the snow! But I could do with less of the ice than what got dished out around here yesterday...

chrislee
Feb 4, 2008, 05:01 AM
I want to take this opportunity to let out some frustrations that have been boiling inside of me for a while. I have been a Microsoft guy for quite some time and switched over to Apple last year. My reasons for making the switch was mainly because I did not see anything worthwhile in Vista and I liked the new features Leopard and felt that they would get good use. One thing that I have noticed since becoming an Apple user is that there is an overwhelming amount of fanboy activity which downright makes me feel like a giant vag. Steve Jobs could re-invent the pet rock and you guys would be lined up ready to buy one. Even if you had already just purchased the pet pebble 2 months earlier. And to top it off, you would all be rushing to upload your video to proudly show us how to properly unbox our pet rock because, afterall, this is an Apple product and because Steve Jobs hypes it up so much it must be so revolutionary and ground breaking?!?! Who the hell posts unboxing videos/pics??? Why does Apple tout products and features like they are the pioneers? Why does the Back to my Mac feature rely on UPnP for routers and not simply port forwarding/NAT? Why the hell do I need an Airport which costs twice as much as any standard router in order to do screen sharing? Is it because screen sharing has only been tested with a handful of 3rd party routers??? It's about time screen sharing has become available, but I must say, Microsoft Remote Desktop sets up so much easier. Why in 2008 do I have duplicate entries in my Calendar and Address Book because I synced up with .Mac? I thought that sort of problem was the norm in 1997 with Palm Pilots and Psions? Why did I get duplicate widgets when syncing my widgets with .mac? I assumed that would be an OBVIOUS problem and I was so disgusted to see duplicate widgets on both of my Macs after syncing... Come on guys, it's 2008... People expect crap to just freakin work... Especially syncing.... Who really wants to futz around with this kind of crap? Why does one of the biggest Apple fans (who happens to sit 5ft away from me as I type this) have so much anger and frustration at Apple and Steve Jobs? Is it because he was one of the first to purchase the iPhone and has since been let down and still cannot copy/paste? Is it because in 2008 Safari crashes countless times on basic web sites? Is it because as a developer, he has sold his customer on Apple products and he still remains in a development stage because Apple has not released Java 6? It's been 1yr since Sun released Java 6... Get on it Steve!!!

It makes me sad to see you guys praise products such as the macbook air... What's so special? Apple TV... a failure... Im anxious to see how well TAKE 2 works out for Steve Jobs... Im sure now that it's been mentioned twice some people will feel obligated to buy it. Don't get me wrong, I still feel that Leopard is a better OS compared to Vista. But I am ashamed to walk into an Apple store only because the typical Apple fan is the epitome of the geek that I do not want to be associated with. I don't need a "genius" to tell me that the reason why my Mac Pro crashes so much is because I have a Microsoft mouse plugged into the USB port. Would they sell me another sorry "Mighty mouse"??? What kind of design is the mighty mouse? Who uses and enjoys using a mighty mouse? Why does Apple try and simplify computing and downplay the complexity of PC's yet they offer these bozo services such as training which shows me how to use Apple products? I thought Apple products just work?


i switched in 2005 and have had quite the opposite experience as you and have owned 8 macs to date with no problems. perhaps you should consider joining pcrumors.com... if you hate mac so much move on. life is too short. there are always going to be the fanatics when it comes to everything... you wont see me with the trekies and geniuses at macworld next year but as long as apples product works for me flawlessly ill keep buying...