Why do some people appear to HATE the MBA?

[kuwisdelu]

The basic, fundamental issue, in my opinion, is that APPLE decided what they considered important in the design versus asking their customers.

They decided that they weren't going to compromise the screen and keyboard size, and defined ultraportable as thin and 3 lbs of weight.

To meet that, something had to be compromised, so goodbye ports, optical drive, use an iPod hard drive, etc.

The problem - many of Apple's loyal customers looked at the 12" PowerBook as a great size, and wanted a current technology replacement for that. Take away an optical drive and make it external, thin it out a little, and give it that Powerbook form factor, along with the current crop of ports found in other laptops, and I think many, many people would gladly hand over money to upgrade their PowerBooks. That design would also still attract a whole new group of customers looking for something thinner and lighter than the MacBook or MacBook Pro.

So, Apple comes out and says "we created the world's thinnest notebook" and alot of customers are saying "so what - its not what I want. Too many compromises to get that sales moniker"

You can easily dismiss them and say "if you don't like it, don't buy it." How does this help Apple? They just lost a potential sale from somebody who WANTS to buy a product from them, if only it was the right product.

The Air is creating a lot of controversy simply because there are customers who have their own design ideas on what constitutes an ultraportable, versus Apple's own ideas. A little bit of communication up front on Apple's part to talk to their customers to find out WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO THEM would've produced a laptop that got much broader market acceptance on its introduction, in my opinion, and created an instant hit. Instead, they get division and controversy.

How is this good for the Air and Apple?

Yes, they missed out on some sales from the people who were hoping for a 12" MBP. But the people who wanted that still aren't the only market for small, portable computers. Apple also opened up the idea of an ultraportable to people like me--those who never wanted one before, because the undersized screen and keyboards on them were too restrictive, and never used the ports that the MBA doesn't have anyway.

Apple gave its own interpretation of an ultraportable, and offered us something other ultraportables don't. For people wanting the same old ultraportable they had before, that sucks. I know. But for those who like the new spin on the idea, it's great.

Personally, I hope Apple releases a 13" MBP. 12" is just too small for me. The choice between a 13" MBP powerhouse and a freakishly thin, portable MBA would be a hard one for me....

[macsensei]

the truth is as soon as Apple comes out with the new MBP, people will love the Air. To many are trying to make the MBA a pro machine. Alot of my friends were disappointed at Macworld because of the lack of a new MBP.

[Gunga Din]

so you think people express negative opinions because they can't afford it?

I am a "air" hater...and have 3K ready to burn....waiting for the new pro...

maybe we just know where the real value is....? ;)

Exactly. I have the money as well. Everyone that owns an Apple product knows damn well how expensive they are. Most of us know our tech and perhaps we just look at the Mac Air differently. I looked at all factors: price, form, OS, components and decided the Mac Air wasnt worth it.

I think the Mac Air is just pushing the limits on what the consumer is willing to spend on a product like this. There is noway I can justify buying the Mac Air with SSD vs a top end Macbook Pro (loaded). Maybe someone can, but thats gonna be a small percentage compared those looking for the most bang for the buck.

[Gunga Din]

the truth is as soon as Apple comes out with the new MBP, people will love the Air. To many are trying to make the MBA a pro machine. Alot of my friends were disappointed at Macworld because of the lack of a new MBP.

Right, and I'll be the first to admit i'm pissed about the Mac Air for taking time and development from the MBP. However, I still would never buy the Mac Air as is.

[kuwisdelu]

I think the Mac Air is just pushing the limits on what the consumer is willing to spend on a product like this. There is noway I can justify buying the Mac Air with SSD vs a top end Macbook Pro (loaded). Maybe someone can, but thats gonna be a small percentage compared those looking for the most bang for the buck.

Small percentage or not, that's always how it's been with ultraportables, and I think it will sell better than most ultraportables because it appeals to the average consumer more who is just wanting more portability without sacrificing tooo much. Maybe some see the MBA as sacrificing too much, and even more so than other ultraportables, but I think it makes its sacrifices in the right places. It doesn't feel too different than a normal MacBook as far as day-to-day performance goes, whereas with other ultraportables, you're going to KNOW you're using an ultraportable that's made some major performance trade-offs.

But anyone who's looking for "the most bang for the buck" is never going to buy an ultraportable in the first place, so I don't see why its an issue with the Air.

[DanBUK]

Why people hate the Air:

1) People are impatient for an update MBP
2)People were hoping for a 12" PB replacement which it isn't
3) People were hoping for a new form of interface/input mode
4)Big bezel
5) People are miserable
6) No appreciation of beauty or innovation
7) Difficult marital situation- frustration poured out on inanimate object
8)People hate Apple and all it stands for
9)[insert USB/FW/battery/dvd whinging]

Take your pick.:rolleyes:

[NAG]

Right, and I'll be the first to admit i'm pissed about the Mac Air for taking time and development from the MBP.
Huh? That is as silly as the people that say the iPod is killing the mac.

[weckart]

Well, coming here and bitching about it seems pretty silly to many people.

Whereas coming here bitching about people bitching about it seems like genius to many people, I suppose.

[ctt1wbw]

Whereas coming here bitching about people bitching about it seems like genius to many people, I suppose.


Some people might come here to try to read adult posts, instead of people complaining about ports/bezel/optical drive/et al.

[netdog]

This thing is selling like wildfire. People swarm around it in Apple Stores here in London. Whinge away all you like, but this IS what a lot of people want.

[shadowfax]

The basic, fundamental issue, in my opinion, is that APPLE decided what they considered important in the design versus asking their customers.

From what I have read, Apple is one of the few tech corporation that has absolutely no record of ever doing polling or focus groups, etc. to find out what their users want in a product. They take feedback from their current products, of course, but they follow the principle, in designing products, that if they like it, people will like it. They're not always right, but their successes outweigh their failures by a unbelievable margin, and I think they are really at the top of their game.

I don't want Apple to ask customers... customers as a people group have little taste or class--other organizations don't have "designers" in the sense that Apple does, they formulate requirements for a product based on consumer polling and business requirements, and they throw things together based on that. Apple is a "lifestyle" company, like Ralph Lauren or Gucci. They sell products that are part of a larger design/functionality philosophy, and if you're not on board with that, that's cool--probably a good thing. But Apple makes stuff within their little world, not from focus groups or contracts with large corporations.

This thing is selling like wildfire. People swarm around it in Apple Stores here in London. Whinge away all you like, but this IS what a lot of people want.

This is what I am saying--Apple said the MBA had great preordering at the conference call last month, and all the reports I have read say that people are all over the thing in the stores. That's not concrete sales figures, but you would think it would shut people up about how badly it is going to sell. But then, I'd be curious about how the Cube sold initially. Maybe it was as hyped at the beginning.

[kuwisdelu]

From what I have read, Apple is one of the few tech corporation that has absolutely no record of ever doing polling or focus groups, etc. to find out what their users want in a product. They take feedback from their current products, of course, but they follow the principle, in designing products, that if they like it, people will like it. They're not always right, but their successes outweigh their failures by a unbelievable margin, and I think they are really at the top of their game.

I don't want Apple to ask customers... customers as a people group have little taste or class--other organizations don't have "designers" in the sense that Apple does, they formulate requirements for a product based on consumer polling and business requirements, and they throw things together based on that. Apple is a "lifestyle" company, like Ralph Lauren or Gucci. They sell products that are part of a larger design/functionality philosophy, and if you're not on board with that, that's cool--probably a good thing. But Apple makes stuff within their little world, not from focus groups or contracts with large corporations.

And let's keep it that way! Despite what many may think, products that try to please everyone rarely end up being good, because you just can't please everyone. Most people don't really have good taste when it comes to designing computers, and most people don't really know what they want/need until presented with it. That sounds like a really dumb, non-intuitive thing to say, but it's how Apple has always worked, and it's one of the things that allows them to deliver us such great products. Just think how many people thought they "needed" floppies, and how many people today think they "need" optical drives, etc. Look at someone who tries to design his own UI or changes around their menu bars, etc. to his own liking: they're rarely good, and are often quite ugly. Apple doesn't make what people think is a great product, they make what they think is a great product, and very often they're more right. I trust them, and when they're wrong, I just won't buy it. No big deal. But when they're right, they're a very, very right. The people there know what they're doing.

No, I'm not a fanboy. There are plenty of Apple products I don't have, because I have no use for them. I'm not buying an MBA because I don't need one right now. I'm just an extremely satisfied customer happy with products from a company that isn't afraid to pave its own way :D

[barijazz]

I hear a lot of news people warning people about the MBA's flaws, but what I can't understand and what no one seems to realize is that none of those "flaws" appear in the MBP or the MB models. Those "flaws" are intended for a specific group of people, and it urks me when someone has to go and bitch about features that don't fit their needs.

[NAG]

Exactly, they're complaining about diversity in Apple's product lineup, which makes no sense at all.

[pesc]

This thing is selling like wildfire. People swarm around it in Apple Stores here in London. Whinge away all you like, but this IS what a lot of people want.

Hmmm... I just bought some Apple stock for some of the money I put aside for a 12" PB replacement. I wonder how that move will turn out by the time MBA mark II arrives.

Well, coming here and bitching about it seems pretty silly to many people.

Please read the topic of this thread.

[weckart]

No, they are complaining about the lack of diversity in Apple's lineup that this laptop confirms. It is too close to the current Macbooks without offering any convincing advantageous differentiation. Being a bit thinner/lighter does not cut it, because that is the direction, in which all of Apple's portables have been going the past few years.

And it pretty much closes the door on any realistic worthwhile addition to the portable range for the foreseeable future.

As for the sales in Regent Street; well, this vanity product was made for that shop. I would be curious to see how well it sells in Southampton, Bolton or Sunderland to be honest.

[iEric007]

I don't understand what the big fuss is with the hard drive space available on the MBA. It's a portable computer, not a desktop - not designed to keep all your files (like all music, pictures, and videos.) Also, 80GB hard drive is not that bad. The first MacBooks weren't that big and after partitioning the hard drive for use with Boot Camp, about 80GBs were left for MacOS X. On my current MBP, I have it partitioned with Boot Camp and my OS X partition is 90GBs (yes, only 10 GBs more than the MBA). I have tons of apps on this machine, with plenty of space for all my music, pictures, and more. I guess I am just confused why people are being so hard on the amount of space the MBA provides. It seems fine to me. No need to have compression software, nor anything of sorts.

Anyways - these are my two cents! Don't flame me, just giving a different opinion.

[applestew]

to those who say that apple does not listen to their customers, who are the "customers" you are referring to? You?

well the MBA works real fine, just what I hoped for. They probably listened to other customers, not you.

Quit complaining you guys who want a decked up laptop, just wait for the updated MBP and then have fun lugging the weight.

[drchipinski]

One word..price.

I was looking for one and priced one out.

BASIC specs.

1.6/80 - 1800
iWork- 70
time capsule - 300
dvd drive- 100
sleeve- 30
tax in Ohio is 7.5%

total is around- $2475......that is not a cheap latptop for a basic one that is thin.

Don't get me wrong, I love the thing...just not worth my $2,500 yet

[chrono1081]

I don't get what the fuss is about. If the MBA isn't for you, don't buy it.

When my mom saw this she wanted one immediately cause she travels, she only uses office and the internet, and she doesn't want some fat laptop to lug around or one with a super small screen. The MBA is exactly what she needs.

Me on the other hand, I'm very impressed with it, but its not what I need. Do I think its crap? Absolutely not. Is it for me? No. I need a MBP thats a 13 inch screen but unfortunately apple doesn't make that :/

Buy what YOU need. Don't get pissed off if a product comes out that caters to someone else, Apple will take turns with everyone.

[NAG]

No, they are complaining about the lack of diversity in Apple's lineup that this laptop confirms. It is too close to the current Macbooks without offering any convincing advantageous differentiation. Being a bit thinner/lighter does not cut it, because that is the direction, in which all of Apple's portables have been going the past few years.

And it pretty much closes the door on any realistic worthwhile addition to the portable range for the foreseeable future.

As for the sales in Regent Street; well, this vanity product was made for that shop. I would be curious to see how well it sells in Southampton, Bolton or Sunderland to be honest.

So in other words, it isn't diverse because you don't want it. Why don't you explain to us what would make this laptop a worthy (in your eyes) addition to the Apple lineup?

[ctt1wbw]

2 usb ports. :D Oh, plus the ability to not get hot when you put it on a pillow.

[Catch]

2 usb ports. :D Oh, plus the ability to not get hot when you put it on a pillow.

Personally I don't understand why they can't make them waterproof. As it is they are missing out on a HUGE amount of professional divers. :eek:

C

[NAG]

Personally I think it needs to also have a holographic projector and be wrist mounted.

[LizKat]

<snip> I think a lot of people trying to justify this design are Prada-Starbucks bloggers and not people who do serious tours on the road.

Just fell off the couch laughing. Wearing long john bottoms, jeans, long john top, turtleneck, sweatshirt with holes and axle grease mark on it, old wool sweater because it's 21 outside and probably 57 in here, which is where I came to drink an ordinary coffeemaker kinda coffee...

Now as to justification: Why should a consumer JUSTIFY a DESIGN, hello? A consumer gets to ratify it with bucks on the countertop, or not.

The design went through rigorous justification way back at the conclusion of the brainstorming phase of the projects that brought the MB Air to market. And, market research was big in the mix during that justification process.

Otherwise the MacBook Air would have become SOMETHING ELSE.

It's not up to us as individual consumers to define what the rest of the planet is up to whenever they happen to buy what we don't buy. I could suggest to you that anyone who walks into a Starbucks and orders a latte is not going to be the same person who will later that day go muck out a horse stall but I'm not that stupid because that particular example is false.

I don't know who is buying all those Mac Book Airs and I don't know if Apple thought I would be a buyer and it doesn't concern me. Apple thought enough people would buy it to bother making it.

My purchase washes your decision not to purchase. So maybe it's the guy down the road who matters to Apple. (heh, of course he got one)

Of course I hope they eventually find the techno to make a 12" MBP or equivalent because I too like that footprint (but don't require it).

Back to my axle grease and a long suffering 25-year-old wood cart.

[nxent]

because, some people are 'mentally challeneged', and can't grasp or comprehend unconventional ideas or products.
if people don't like the mba, that's fine, but for the love of god, stop bitching about it. subnotebooks aren't for everyone.

[Macmanus]

Nothing to add to this.

"total wireless function"

I find this comment and Apple's misleading advertising interesting. There is a difference between RELYING on wireless totally (which the MacBook Air does and is an inconvenience and people will not gravitate towards) and comprehensively utilizing wireless technology (which people are gravitating towards, but Apple has not done with the MacBook Air). The MacBook Air relies heavily on the Internet, because of its lack of optical drive and the fact that buying and carrying around a SuperDrive defeats the purpose of buying an "ultraportable" to begin with. If Internet connectivity is vital, you would imagine any reasonable manufacturer to provide multiple reliable avenues to make sure that you can access the Internet. But that isn't the case with Apple. Instead, users will find that they will find themselves isolated from content, because of the reasons explained below.

The most reliable, fast, and secure way to access the Internet is via Local Area Network (LAN) through an Ethernet cable. A LAN connection also has less power consumption than wireless connection. This most basic and fundamental avenue, which is offered by other ultraportable laptops in Gigabit flavor, is oddly missing from the MacBook Air. That is simply unacceptable for any laptop, even ultraportables.

Apple tries to avoid this poor design choice by creating the impression that the MacBook Air is a device with superior wifi capabilities that would make the lack of Ethernet port a moot point. This is absurd and misleading. To get on the Internet wireless, there needs to be, of course, wireless Internet source available. This may not be a major issue at home, because many (but not all) of us already have a wireless router, but outside of the home this becomes an issue. Remember all those plans years ago about municipal wifi, in most cases free? Years later, guess how many of them actually materialized? Pretty much zero. Google offers wifi in Mountain View, CA, and that is pretty much it. Projects all around the United States have not been implemented and companies such as Earthlink who placed bids and won contracts to implement such services are being sued millions of dollars for the delay. So, you are limited to wireless "hot spots" which is not very convenient for many reasons.

1. Many of these are paid services. TMobile, for example, has contracted to offer such services at Borders, FedEx Kinkos, Starbucks, various hotels, and various airports for a fee, places where you would most likely want to get on the Internet.

2. Many of these hotspots are locked with a passkey or MAC Address filtering.

3. Those that are not fee based or locked by a passkey are usually private signals from nearby residents that have weak signal strength and if you do get on the network you'll get booted off.

4. Wireless security is a huge issue. There are many published stories of hackers hanging out at airports, cafes, and bookstores to exploit this vulnerability.

5. Wifi networks have limited range.

6. This limited range also affects wifi performance, which decreases exponentially as the range increases.

7. Wifi pollution, or an excessive number of access points in the area can prevent access and interfere with the use of other access points by others, caused by overlapping channels as well as with decreased signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) between access points.

8. Other devices that use the 2.4 GHz band: microwave ovens, security cameras, Bluetooth devices and (in some countries) Amateur radio, video senders, cordless phones and baby monitors can cause significant additional interference.

9. Interoperability issues between non wifi brands or proprietary deviations from the standard can disrupt connections or lower throughput speeds on all user's devices that are within range, to include the non-wifi or proprietary product. This is especially true of the standard Apple's MacBook Air utilizes for two very important reasons. First, it is an Apple, which means it is likely to have compatibility/interoperability issues with the random assortment of non-Apple routers (Linksys, Netgear, Dlink, etc.) these hotspots use. Unless, of course, they are using an Apple Airport, which is so rare that it would be foolish to rely on. Second, the 802.11n standard has not been finalized by yet, and is still in its draft stage. Although the N standard is still in "draft" stage, many hardware vendors already sell "pre-N" or "Draft-N" hardware, based on the most recent draft. These vendors anticipate the final version will not be significantly different from the draft, and in a bid to get the early mover advantage, are pushing ahead with the technology. Many of these products have failed to perform to the hype of the N standard. More importantly, the lack of standardization has led to manufacturers using their own Draft N technology, which makes it vital to purchase the appropriate adaptor to match your draft N router, because there may be compatibility issues if your wireless adaptor and router are made by different manufacturers. For these reasons, reviewers have suggested waiting on buying such routers, especially since many of them are expensive, until 802.11n is released.

So with the possibility of a lack of a wireless source/hotspot or wireless connectivity issues, you would think any reasonable manufacturer would utilize WAN options (e.g., 3G). This is, in fact, an "ultraportable" device, who knows where you will be using it, right? Although the competition offers a WAN options, Apple decided not to. What is more, with no ExpressCard slot and a single USB port that won't accommodate most WAN modems without additional accessories, Apple's poor product design makes it difficult and cumbersome to add 3G capability.

[MazingerZ]

Nothing to add to this.

"total wireless function"

I find this comment and Apple's misleading advertising interesting. There is a difference between RELYING on wireless totally (which the MacBook Air does and is an inconvenience and people will not gravitate towards) and comprehensively utilizing wireless technology (which people are gravitating towards, but Apple has not done with the MacBook Air). The MacBook Air relies heavily on the Internet, because of its lack of optical drive and the fact that buying and carrying around a SuperDrive defeats the purpose of buying an "ultraportable" to begin with. If Internet connectivity is vital, you would imagine any reasonable manufacturer to provide multiple reliable avenues to make sure that you can access the Internet. But that isn't the case with Apple. Instead, users will find that they will find themselves isolated from content, because of the reasons explained below.

The most reliable, fast, and secure way to access the Internet is via Local Area Network (LAN) through an Ethernet cable. A LAN connection also has less power consumption than wireless connection. This most basic and fundamental avenue, which is offered by other ultraportable laptops in Gigabit flavor, is oddly missing from the MacBook Air. That is simply unacceptable for any laptop, even ultraportables.

Apple tries to avoid this poor design choice by creating the impression that the MacBook Air is a device with superior wifi capabilities that would make the lack of Ethernet port a moot point. This is absurd and misleading. To get on the Internet wireless, there needs to be, of course, wireless Internet source available. This may not be a major issue at home, because many (but not all) of us already have a wireless router, but outside of the home this becomes an issue. Remember all those plans years ago about municipal wifi, in most cases free? Years later, guess how many of them actually materialized? Pretty much zero. Google offers wifi in Mountain View, CA, and that is pretty much it. Projects all around the United States have not been implemented and companies such as Earthlink who placed bids and won contracts to implement such services are being sued millions of dollars for the delay. So, you are limited to wireless "hot spots" which is not very convenient for many reasons.

1. Many of these are paid services. TMobile, for example, has contracted to offer such services at Borders, FedEx Kinkos, Starbucks, various hotels, and various airports for a fee, places where you would most likely want to get on the Internet.

2. Many of these hotspots are locked with a passkey or MAC Address filtering.

3. Those that are not fee based or locked by a passkey are usually private signals from nearby residents that have weak signal strength and if you do get on the network you'll get booted off.

4. Wireless security is a huge issue. There are many published stories of hackers hanging out at airports, cafes, and bookstores to exploit this vulnerability.

5. Wifi networks have limited range.

6. This limited range also affects wifi performance, which decreases exponentially as the range increases.

7. Wifi pollution, or an excessive number of access points in the area can prevent access and interfere with the use of other access points by others, caused by overlapping channels as well as with decreased signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) between access points.

8. Other devices that use the 2.4 GHz band: microwave ovens, security cameras, Bluetooth devices and (in some countries) Amateur radio, video senders, cordless phones and baby monitors can cause significant additional interference.

9. Interoperability issues between non wifi brands or proprietary deviations from the standard can disrupt connections or lower throughput speeds on all user's devices that are within range, to include the non-wifi or proprietary product. This is especially true of the standard Apple's MacBook Air utilizes for two very important reasons. First, it is an Apple, which means it is likely to have compatibility/interoperability issues with the random assortment of non-Apple routers (Linksys, Netgear, Dlink, etc.) these hotspots use. Unless, of course, they are using an Apple Airport, which is so rare that it would be foolish to rely on. Second, the 802.11n standard has not been finalized by yet, and is still in its draft stage. Although the N standard is still in "draft" stage, many hardware vendors already sell "pre-N" or "Draft-N" hardware, based on the most recent draft. These vendors anticipate the final version will not be significantly different from the draft, and in a bid to get the early mover advantage, are pushing ahead with the technology. Many of these products have failed to perform to the hype of the N standard. More importantly, the lack of standardization has led to manufacturers using their own Draft N technology, which makes it vital to purchase the appropriate adaptor to match your draft N router, because there may be compatibility issues if your wireless adaptor and router are made by different manufacturers. For these reasons, reviewers have suggested waiting on buying such routers, especially since many of them are expensive, until 802.11n is released.

So with the possibility of a lack of a wireless source/hotspot or wireless connectivity issues, you would think any reasonable manufacturer would utilize WAN options (e.g., 3G). This is, in fact, an "ultraportable" device, who knows where you will be using it, right? Although the competition offers a WAN options, Apple decided not to. What is more, with no ExpressCard slot and a single USB port that won't accommodate most WAN modems without additional accessories, Apple's poor product design makes it difficult and cumbersome to add 3G capability.

Most WAN modems now come in USB form. Also, you can tether via bluetooth. I think you're making mountains out of molehills. I've travelled extensively all over the world and have always been able to find a wifi or a 3g solution to my internet addiction. I think the MBA will do fine as a wireless dependent device.

[Catch]

So with the possibility of a lack of a wireless source/hotspot or wireless connectivity issues, you would think any reasonable manufacturer would utilize WAN options (e.g., 3G). This is, in fact, an "ultraportable" device, who knows where you will be using it, right? Although the competition offers a WAN options, Apple decided not to. What is more, with no ExpressCard slot and a single USB port that won't accommodate most WAN modems without additional accessories, Apple's poor product design makes it difficult and cumbersome to add 3G capability.

This one is a good negative. I agree that I would find a built in solution more useful. I dislike dongles and USB devices as its more to carry. I would have to say that the addition in the future of 3G would make me upgrade this machine. :)

Regards,

c

[cenetti]

Exactly. I have the money as well. Everyone that owns an Apple product knows damn well how expensive they are. Most of us know our tech and perhaps we just look at the Mac Air differently. I looked at all factors: price, form, OS, components and decided the Mac Air wasnt worth it.

I think the Mac Air is just pushing the limits on what the consumer is willing to spend on a product like this. There is noway I can justify buying the Mac Air with SSD vs a top end Macbook Pro (loaded). Maybe someone can, but thats gonna be a small percentage compared those looking for the most bang for the buck.

yup...I just got a mac PRO for $2900 with extra 2gb ram (total 4gb)
this baby has 2.8ghz 2 Quad chips (8 cores)...
thats what 3K buys you....if you know what I mean...;)

[MazingerZ]

yup...I just got a mac PRO for $2900 with extra 2gb ram (total 4gb)
this baby has 2.8ghz 2 Quad chips (8 cores)...
thats what 3K buys you....if you know what I mean...;)

Did you get a sleevecase with that?:p

[Catch]

yup...I just got a mac PRO for $2900 with extra 2gb ram (total 4gb)
this baby has 2.8ghz 2 Quad chips (8 cores)...
thats what 3K buys you....if you know what I mean...;)

Brings a whole new meaning to the idea of a 'mobile' platform! I wish I could bring all my 8 3.0Ghz cores when I have a meeting. Together with the 2x30" displays I am sure it would make a few people very impressed... productivity sure would go up though :D

C

[shadowfax]

The MacBook Air relies heavily on the Internet, because of its lack of optical drive and the fact that buying and carrying around a SuperDrive defeats the purpose of buying an "ultraportable" to begin with.

... no, buying a superdrive means that you can leave it at home, but you still have it (at home) in case you need to, you know, install leopard or iLife or something. That's an awesome idea, IMO. Even if you do cary it with you, that's up to you, rather than forced. So, if you did feel like watching a DVD, it would be inconvenient but possible. Most of the time, if you're like me, you don't, and it's handy that you don't have to have the bulk around all the time like in another laptop.

The most reliable, fast, and secure way to access the Internet is via Local Area Network (LAN) through an Ethernet cable. A LAN connection also has less power consumption than wireless connection. This most basic and fundamental avenue, which is offered by other ultraportable laptops in Gigabit flavor, is oddly missing from the MacBook Air. That is simply unacceptable for any laptop, even ultraportables.

The stupidity of this statement defies my imagination. You know what's dumb? Most laptops, including all of Apple's, don't come with an ethernet cable. So you have to carry around a damned ethernet cable all over the place. I can't friggin' believe how stupid that is, Apple could have a cool little retractable ethernet cable that comes out of the side of the machine so I don't have to lug around a dang 3-6 ft cable everywhere I go, along with my headphones, power adapter, video cable... I mean, crap, where does it end?

But seriously, dude, ethernet is not missing from this laptop. You just have to get their (relatively cheap) ethernet adapter. Why is that a problem? It's not, for the reason I just waxed sarcastic over--every laptop with ethernet has a totally useless port--unless you carry around an ethernet cable. Have you ever tried asking for one at a hotel? I doubt they give them out if you just forgot yours, oopsies. So, if you're carrying a 3-6 ft CAT5e cable, you might as well throw the little adapter again.

etc...

For all your other statements, I find most of them rather alarmist or pointless, other than the statement that 3G is not included and the port won't allow a lot of 3G USB dongles. That is the height of stupidity, I agree, and they will lose some business for it.

Still, what I see in the future is being able to use your 3G cell phone as a bluetooth or USB modem. That would negate this whole issue, and it would be even better, because you wouldn't be stuck with one type of WAN capability in your laptop--if you wanted to switch over, you'd just need a new phone.

Hopefully we will see an iPhone software update (this is not going to happen until the ATT contract expires), but more likely we'll see some hacker write an app that does it, since all the hardware is there. Later this year, the 3G iPhone will be here and there will be some real demand for people to hook up their laptops to that connection, being that it's unlimited...

The other thing I agree with is that the draft-N business is ridiculous with all the incompatibilities. I blame the WiFi Alliance, or whatever they call themselves, for dragging their silly feet. Finish it and start on the next one! sheesh. If you are seriously worried about an n device that is going to ultimately be hardware-incompatible with the finalized N spec, you shouldn't buy any laptop at all, let alone this one.

[kuwisdelu]

Nothing to add to this.

"total wireless function"

I find this comment and Apple's misleading advertising interesting. There is a difference between RELYING on wireless totally (which the MacBook Air does and is an inconvenience and people will not gravitate towards) and comprehensively utilizing wireless technology (which people are gravitating towards, but Apple has not done with the MacBook Air). The MacBook Air relies heavily on the Internet, because of its lack of optical drive and the fact that buying and carrying around a SuperDrive defeats the purpose of buying an "ultraportable" to begin with. If Internet connectivity is vital, you would imagine any reasonable manufacturer to provide multiple reliable avenues to make sure that you can access the Internet. But that isn't the case with Apple. Instead, users will find that they will find themselves isolated from content, because of the reasons explained below.



I'm going with shadowfax on this one. Anyone who buys the MacBook Air and ends up carrying a Superdrive around (all the time; I can see a need from time to time) is either an idiot or missing the point or both. If I had a MacBook Air, I'd leave the Superdrive at home. I've never found a need to use my optical drive away from home. Not once. If I want to watch a DVD--even though I have an optical drive on my MacBook--I always end up ripping it, because I don't like having my drive spinning madly while I'm watching a movie, and that way I can watch it any time I like, even if I don't have the DVD. With movies on iTunes, you can download them, too. And I don't see why one would install software on-the-go. I only have one or two programs on my MacBook that came from a CD, and I installed them at home.


The most reliable, fast, and secure way to access the Internet is via Local Area Network (LAN) through an Ethernet cable. A LAN connection also has less power consumption than wireless connection. This most basic and fundamental avenue, which is offered by other ultraportable laptops in Gigabit flavor, is oddly missing from the MacBook Air. That is simply unacceptable for any laptop, even ultraportables.

...etc etc....


So what it sounds like you're saying is with an ethernet port it would be a lot easier to get internet than with WiFi? You think anyplace that doesn't offer free wireless is going to offer free ethernet? Find me one. Just one. And if you know such a place and frequent it, then buy the dongle and realize that most of us use the WiFi.

I'll admit 3G would have been a great option to add; I'm not sure why they left it off, but there must be some reason. Maybe they simply didn't have enough room. But you know what? Before the MacBook Air came out, I didn't even know what 3G was. I certainly don't have it on my phone. Maybe I'm atypical, but I don't think I'm that strange in that WiFi is by far my most used form of internet access. In fact, I've only ever used any other twice, and that was ethernet. Twice.

[drchipinski]

If it was $1200, I would have bought one the day they were announced...

[MazingerZ]

If it was $1200, I would have bought one the day they were announced...

Great...Go buy a macbook!

[kyleen66]

]Remember all those plans years ago about municipal wifi, in most cases free? Years later, guess how many of them actually materialized? Pretty much zero. Google offers wifi in Mountain View, CA, and that is pretty much it.


I don't agree with this at all. There is a TON of free WiFi out there. Specifically, Louisville Kentucky has a network downtown as well in several of their parks. Lexington has it in two parks I can think of. I also know of one park on the bay in Traverse City Michigan that has it.

Coffee shops like Beaners and Caribou Coffee also offer free WiFi in most of their stores.

Panera Bread is another good source. It's hit or miss with McDonald's if you get it for free, but I know all of the Wendy's in Lansing Michigan have free WiFi.

Because of the amount I travel I usually use http://www.wififreespot.com/ to find free internet where I'm going before I travel. I'd also like to add that there are a number of rest areas that are now offering Free WiFi as well.

So there is a lot of free WiFi out there to be had and I'd argue against it being "zero."

[Mr.Green]

Shadowfax, kuwisdelu, kyleen66, and others... you know what MacManus posted was just copied from the Amazon discussion linked in the first post (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&camp=1789&tag=macrumors-20&creative=9325&path=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMacBook-the-real-notebook-market%2Fforum%2FFx2S4LXAZ56WC57%2FTx35J3QI8L5UACJ%2F1%2Fref%3Dcm_cd_dp_tft_tp%3F%255Fencoding%3DUTF 8%26s%3Delectronics%26cdAnchor%3DB0006HU4DK%26asin%3DB0006HU4DK%26store%3Delectronics)? You should check that out. It's insane.

[pesc]

But seriously, dude, ethernet is not missing from this laptop. You just have to get their (relatively cheap) ethernet adapter. Why is that a problem?

Because the MBA only has one USB slot?

You are at a client site connected to their secure fileservers via LAN. The USB-LAN dongle is used. Someone approaches you with a USB stick with some data to copy to the fileservers. How cool is the MBA going to look now?

[MazingerZ]

Because the MBA only has one USB slot?

You are at a client site connected to their secure fileservers via LAN. The USB-LAN dongle is used. Someone approaches you with a USB stick with some data to copy to the fileservers. How cool is the MBA going to look now?

If your work requires a computer that has an ethernet and a free usb, it would be pretty stupid to bring in your MBA. I'm sure anybody who finds themselves in that line of work has multiple(even) work supplied computers to handle the job. You trolls are really grasping at straws now. :(

Wait..you forgot to post your daily footprint photo! :lol:

[drchipinski]

Great...Go buy a macbook!

If that is what I wanted, I would have. The Air is a bit overpriced right now. For $200 more I can get a whole lot of machine....MBP

I will wait until March and see what shakes out.

[Catch]

Wait..you forgot to post your daily footprint photo! :lol:

You owe me a clenex to wipe the coffee off my keyboard! :eek::D:p

C

[weckart]

So in other words, it isn't diverse because you don't want it. Why don't you explain to us what would make this laptop a worthy (in your eyes) addition to the Apple lineup?

Please do not assume what was neither there nor implied. There are plenty of products in Apple's current product base that I neither need nor want. However, they all have their place and do not otherwise encroach greatly on each other's space. Except this one. It isn't diverse because it occupies the same spot occupied by the Macbook. Just glitzier but undernourished, is all. Once the novelty wears off, people will wonder what the fuss was all about.

Moreover, it is not just this forum, in which the Macbook is gathering such negative feedback. Not even the AppleTV received such flak when it came out. That speaks volumes to me, if not to you.

[NAG]

Please do not assume what was neither there nor implied.

Then why don't you back up your statements rather than just making broad generalizations based off your ill-defined personal feelings.

[kuwisdelu]

Please do not assume what was neither there nor implied. There are plenty of products in Apple's current product base that I neither need nor want. However, they all have their place and do not otherwise encroach greatly on each other's space. Except this one. It isn't diverse because it occupies the same spot occupied by the Macbook. Just glitzier but undernourished, is all. Once the novelty wears off, people will wonder what the fuss was all about.

I don't see how you mean this. I thought it pretty clearly occupies the spot of Apple's ultraportable option. The MacBook is for those who want an Apple laptop, but not one quite as powerful or expensive as the MacBook Pro, and don't value the extra portability of the Air for its sacrifices; the MacBook Air is for those who are always moving around and really need the most portable option they can get, and don't mind the reduced feature set.

[shadowfax]

Because the MBA only has one USB slot?

You are at a client site connected to their secure fileservers via LAN. The USB-LAN dongle is used. Someone approaches you with a USB stick with some data to copy to the fileservers. How cool is the MBA going to look now?

If I had my MBA at work, it would be hooked up to my Apple Cinema Display, and it would probably also have a USB hub hooked up to it, with the Ethernet dongle hooked up to the back of the display (or the hub). so, there is my hot little laptop at work, sitting next to a gorgeous 23" display, hooked up via the little micro-DVI adapter and the one USB port, which now nets me however many ports I want.

Seriously, when I am "plugged in" at a semi-permanent spot such as my home ore my office, I am going to have add-on things that extend its usefulness. I don't walk around with my 200GB backup drive or my 20" ACD for my MBP, either.

MacPro 3.0 Harpertown | MacBookPro 2.16 | MacBookAir 1.8 SSD | Xraid 7TB | CD 30" x 2 | iPhone v1

Holy cow, batman! he's got money out the wazoo!

[TechHistorian]

Remember all those plans years ago about municipal wifi, in most cases free? Years later, guess how many of them actually materialized? Pretty much zero. Google offers wifi in Mountain View, CA, and that is pretty much it. Projects all around the United States have not been implemented and companies such as Earthlink who placed bids and won contracts to implement such services are being sued millions of dollars for the delay. So, you are limited to wireless "hot spots" which is not very convenient for many reasons.

Might want to check your assumptions there. Philadelphia, PA has rolled out its muni wifi -- about 80% of the city is covered at present. And Philly is a tad bigger than Mountain View. Earthlink is indeed up and running in Philly. Yes, it does cost, but the cost is subsidized for low-income users. And somebody who can afford an MBA isn't really worried about wifi access fees, now, are they? Further, there are certain areas within Philly designated as free zones -- mostly recreational areas like parks.

Moreover, wireless is pretty much de rigeur on university campuses these days. The institution I teach at is no great shakes when it comes to IT, but we have plenty of hotspots on campus (though, sadly, none in my office building). Anybody with a campus email user ID can access them.

[NAG]

Not to mention Portland and Spokane have free wifi (Spokane was one of the first although it is only in the downtown neighborhood). Just because your city doesn't have it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[thirteen1031]

The basic, fundamental issue, in my opinion, is that APPLE decided what they considered important in the design versus asking their customers.
You know what? I think you're absolutely right. I think people pissed at Apple for the MBA and hating the MBA--that's HATING the MBA, not merely "disappointed in," or not interested in buying it, or not having the money for it yet--HATING the MBA because Apple didn't listen to them. They wanted X, Y and Z with this, that and the other and they wanted it at this price.

Apple didn't give then that. Apple didn't listen. How could Apple have done that to them?

Look, we all have a "dream" computer in mind. I loved, and I mean LOVED my 12" PB. It was exactly the right size for me. I loved how much table space I had with it at coffee houses and on airplanes, I loved the 12" bags it fit in which hung just right over my shoulder. With my small hands, I even loved the keyboard. I was very sorry to see it go. And had the MacBook not had an equally wonderful keyboard, I'd have never gotten rid of my 12". So. In my dreams, I dream of the return of the 12"--upgraded and with all the cool stuff I'd always wanted it to have. Maybe, someday, I'll get that dream machine. Or maybe not. But I don't hate the MBA for the fact that it doesn't exist yet.

In some ways, MBA "hatred" seems like a weird case of transference: "You hated MBA! But for you the 12" would be back!" and "You evil MBA! Thanks to you Apple didn't give me an ultra portable with two USB ports! With firewire and an optical drive all at a cost of $1200!" As if the MBA was directly responsible for keeping Apple from listening to the consumers and giving them exactly what they wanted, at exactly the price they wanted to pay.

The original question wasn't "why won't you buy this machine?" or even "what don't you like about the MBA?" but why do you "HATE" this machine. Hate requires an emotional investment. You have to take the very existence of the MBA *personally* as if it's an insult to you. If, every time you look at it, you see "Apple didn't listen to me!" then I suppose that would make "hatred" of the object understandable. Not totally rational, but understandable. It would explain why so many people feel the need not merely to express why it's not for them (perfectly fine and acceptable to voice such opinions) and, instead, insult people who do find it's for them ("Your girly arms can't handle 2 more pounds!") :rolleyes: (Honestly, what does it matter whether anyone can "handle" 2 more pounds or not? It's completely irrelevant as you don't know what else they have to haul around or if they're disabled or elderly and need as light a load as possible, or if they have to haul this load for many hours over many miles. All of which would, indeed, make a person want the lightest possible computer, no need to insult them over such a rational and wise decision. Why haul a heavier computer when a lighter one will do?).

[ob81]

Hate is such a strong word. It isn't so much the "Air". The biggest problem is the people that lost muscle capacity overnight, and 2lbs turned into 20lbs.
Additionally, the Macbook Air isn't more portable than the Macbook. You will primarily use the same cases for each. If you have to tote several items around while commuting back and forth, that $2k would be better invested in a vehicle.

There simply is too much self-convincing going on with Macbook Air owners/hopefuls. You have $2k-$3k to burn on an over-priced product, which is fine. Avoid being on the forums embarrasing yourself talking about how 2lbs almost broke your arm.

[diabolic]

It would explain why so many people feel the need not merely to express why it's not for them (perfectly fine and acceptable to voice such opinions) and, instead, insult people who do find it's for them ("Your girly arms can't handle 2 more pounds!") :rolleyes: (Honestly, what does it matter whether anyone can "handle" 2 more pounds or not? It's completely irrelevant as you don't know what else they have to haul around or if they're disabled or elderly and need as light a load as possible, or if they have to haul this load for many hours over many miles. All of which would, indeed, make a person want the lightest possible computer, no need to insult them over such a rational and wise decision. Why haul a heavier computer when a lighter one will do?).

It's hilarious that the post following yours did exactly what you wrote. :)

[MazingerZ]

Hate is such a strong word. It isn't so much the "Air". The biggest problem is the people that lost muscle capacity overnight, and 2lbs turned into 20lbs.
Additionally, the Macbook Air isn't more portable than the Macbook. You will primarily use the same cases for each. If you have to tote several items around while commuting back and forth, that $2k would be better invested in a vehicle.

There simply is too much self-convincing going on with Macbook Air owners/hopefuls. You have $2k-$3k to burn on an over-priced product, which is fine. Avoid being on the forums embarrasing yourself talking about how 2lbs almost broke your arm.

What self-convincing are you talking about? In this day and age, any tech mistake I make is easily remedied by selling on ebay/craigslist.

As for being overpriced, well, value is in the eye of the beholder. Just look at Apple's sales in the last 3 years.

[ob81]

It's hilarious that the post following yours did exactly what you wrote. :)

What is hilarious is the fact that people in large numbers do complain about the 2lbs. :)

[thirteen1031]

To add, as an opinion and pure speculation: I suspect that the MBA and the iPhone are heading towards each other. As elements of each get integrated into each, you move, closer and closer, to that magical "Tablet" that everyone is talking about.

What I suspect is that there isn't a big market for the tablet as yet. And I also suspect that Apple is *wisely* exploring what people want and need and would use or not use if such a devise existed. That they're watching other companies with their incarnations of it, how well they do, and how good their product is--just as they watched other MP3 players before bringing out the iPod.

As the iPhone moves one way (more computer-like) and the MBA moves the other way (more portable) you get closer and closer to a tablet where a lot of problems and necessary functions have already been worked out and tested, like the touch screen which is part of the MBA's trackpad. I wonder if people who are dissing the MBA are, perhaps, being a little short-sighted. I think there's the belief that this is it, this is all Apple can offer. But I think that there's a long, looooong term plan in the iPhone and MBA that may lead to that magic item. You can be angry that it isn't here yet, but be thankful for some caution. If the iPhone had some out and not worked well, it would have been a big bust. Better Apple inch toward this magical item, step by step, working out all the kinks and problems along the way, then try to bring it out and have it end up like the Newton.

That is, no market for it yet, and it doesn't work well enough for those who do want it. A wise business creates a market (or nurtures as market) for a product, and brings out that product when it's sure the technology is there to give people what they want/need, and that it will work out well and not flop like Edsel.

It's hilarious that the post following yours did exactly what you wrote.
LOL! Timing is everything

[ob81]

What self-convincing are you talking about? In this day and age, any tech mistake I make is easily remedied by selling on ebay/craigslist.

As for being overpriced, well, value is in the eye of the beholder. Just look at Apple's sales in the last 3 years.

The Air's biggest perk is it's thinness, hands down. This thinness comes at a compromise of features for some, and for others, they don't need some of the missing features anyway. Former Macbook owners, who have previously adored the Macbook in the same fashion that they do the Air, all of a sudden started downing the Macbook and the Macbook pro. Overnight. People seem to overlook this due to the amount of "Air haters", but look at the Macbook/Macbook pro haters that spawned from the mist. I figure they are downing the other models to convince themselves that they would have passed out if they carried a macbook/macbook pro another day.

You are right though. The premium on ultraportables is pretty unmeasurable, and to someone that isn't in the market, the price may seem steep. The Macbook Air isn't an ultraportable though. It is an attempt to re-define what ultraportable is. There are ultraportables smaller than the Air with more features. The only downfall to those units is that they don't run OSX.

[Mitch1984]

If it was cheaper than a MacBook then it wouldn't seem pointless.

[thirteen1031]

What is hilarious is the fact that people in large numbers do complain about the 2lbs. :)
Not hilarious at all. Like I said, if you're carrying around 50lbs in books and other crap, then lightening that load by even 2lb is desirable. If you have to haul something around for hours, then 2lbs can start to feel like 20 and getting rid of that 2lbs can make a difference--just ask long distance runners, or swimmers or hikers or rock climbers. The lighter the load the better, and every ounce you lighten up allows you to concentrate on other things. More important things, be it climbing that mountain or getting through an airport and to an urgent business meeting on time and breathing easy.

Rushing about from meeting to meeting isn't about building up your muscles. If a lighter computer allows you to do this better, why should it be heavier just because you can "handle it" if you have to?

Why should anyone haul a heavier computer if a lighter one will suffice? And if a lighter one does make a difference to them, why should that be mocked? Do you know enough about them, about their lives, about their disabilities and illnesses and how much they haul about daily on their backs to justify finding their complaint "Hilarious?"

[NAG]

The Air's biggest perk is it's thinness, hands down. This thinness comes at a compromise of features for some, and for others, they don't need some of the missing features anyway. Former Macbook owners, who have previously adored the Macbook in the same fashion that they do the Air, all of a sudden started downing the Macbook and the Macbook pro. Overnight. People seem to overlook this due to the amount of "Air haters", but look at the Macbook/Macbook pro haters that spawned from the mist. I figure they are downing the other models to convince themselves that they would have passed out if they carried a macbook/macbook pro another day.

You are right though. The premium on ultraportables is pretty unmeasurable, and to someone that isn't in the market, the price may seem steep. The Macbook Air isn't an ultraportable though. It is an attempt to re-define what ultraportable is. There are ultraportables smaller than the Air with more features. The only downfall to those units is that they don't run OSX.

Again, attacking people personally because you don't agree. I would have thought we would be above this. Apparently, you are not. Why don't you bring something actually productive to the discussion rather than continue to attack people who ask why so many people are so irrationally opposed to the Macbook air even existing.

[ob81]

Not hilarious at all. Like I said, if you're carrying around 50lbs in books and other crap, then lightening that load by even 2lb is desirable. If you have to haul something around for hours, then 2lbs can start to feel like 20 and getting rid of that 2lbs can make a difference--just ask long distance runners, or swimmers or hikers or rock climbers. The lighter the load the better, and every ounce you lighten up allows you to concentrate on other things. More important things, be it climbing that mountain or getting through an airport and to an urgent business meeting on time and breathing easy.

Rushing about from meeting to meeting isn't about building up your muscles. If a lighter computer allows you to do this better, why should it be heavier just because you can "handle it" if you have to?

Why should anyone haul a heavier computer if a lighter one will suffice? And if a lighter one does make a difference to them, why should that be mocked? Do you know enough about them, about their lives, about their disabilities and illnesses and how much they haul about daily on their backs to justify finding their complaint "Hilarious?"

Everything you mentioned is spot on. I stress again, why DOWN the Macbook/Macbook pro now that the Air has arrived? Read through the Air forums. People complain about the Air haters, when most of the Air adopters that previously owned Macbook/Macbook pros, are acting like they were on their last leg with the Macbook/MBP's after previously praising them. Ok. You can't lug the 2lbs. The Air came and saved your life. There are still tons of people that beleive that the Macbook/MBP are great systems. Stop trying to convince yourself that they aren't and that is why you bought the pro.

[MazingerZ]

Everything you mentioned is spot on. I stress again, why DOWN the Macbook/Macbook pro now that the Air has arrived? Read through the Air forums. People complain about the Air haters, when most of the Air adopters that previously owned Macbook/Macbook pros, are acting like they were on their last leg with the Macbook/MBP's after previously praising them. Ok. You can't lug the 2lbs. The Air came and saved your life. There are still tons of people that beleive that the Macbook/MBP are great systems. Stop trying to convince yourself that they aren't and that is why you bought the pro.

I must have missed all the post dissing the mbp's. I think most owners of MBP's are keeping them while making their MBA their travel laptop as I am doing.

[ob81]

Again, attacking people personally because you don't agree. I would have thought we would be above this. Apparently, you are not. Why don't you bring something actually productive to the discussion rather than continue to attack people who ask why so many people are so irrationally opposed to the Macbook air even existing.


I don't think I attacked anyone presonally anywhere in my post. I find that on forums, when people have nothing to say, they use phrases like "attack". Who did I attack? I mean really.

[NAG]

Care to provide links to these supposed macbook and macbook pro haters? Anyone actually "down" on the products existing? All I've ever seen is people saying they prefer the air over the other lines. Last time I checked, preference does not mean they are running around calling people names (such as implying wanting a lighter notebook means you're weak) or posting trolls in the macbook/macbook pro forum.

I don't think I attacked anyone presonally anywhere in my post. I find that on forums, when people have nothing to say, they use phrases like "attack". Who did I attack? I mean really.

Ah yes, denying the existence of bad form in argument as a defense of it. I was hoping for something a little more creative but I guess the tried and true trolling is out in force here.

How about this, I'll answer your question once you've answered mine. Who are the people who are "down" on the macbook and macbook pro? It is easy to use phrases like "down on" on the internet. Who is down on it? I mean really.

[thirteen1031]

People complain about the Air haters, when most of the Air adopters that previously owned Macbook/Macbook pros, are acting like they were on their last leg with the Macbook/MBP's after previously praising them.
If they offer a reasoned preference for the MBA over the others, lightness included, than I see nothing wrong with that. And if they offer reasons, such as weight, as a reason for switching, and do so in response to those who demand to know why they're buying it at all, then I still don't see anything wrong with that. Sometimes a strong reply comes in response to a strong question, like "Why are you being so stupid and buying an MBA!" In that case, I can understand if their response is less reasoned and more emotional, even to disrespecting the Macbook/Macbook pro.

If, however, without provocation, they're spitting troll-like vitriol at the regular sized notebooks and mocking those who are keeping their Pros and MacBooks rather than adopting the MBA's then that's wrong.

So. Please show me threads where people are doing this, and I'll happily take the to task for it. That's only fair.

[mashoutposse]

-custom-made Intel C2D full-voltage CPU
-aluminum chassis
-excellent screen (MBP-quality)
-excellent keyboard (backlit)
-all of the engineering required to make this fit in a chassis less than half the volume of a MacBook

Does this sound cheap to anyone? :confused:

Check out the product lines of practically all of the other manufacturers: You will discover that the smallest laptops carry the biggest price tags and the lowest performance. The MBA is a bargain in comparison.

There have always been both a price and performance premium on portability -- compare a $3k MBP to a $3k Mac Pro.

Nothing wrong with complaining about the price, but at the very least educate yourselves about the conventions of the ultraportable segment.

[zap2]

Playground psychology 101; sour grapes. I bet if you presented any hater with a free MBA, they'd gush.

Very few people think that MacBook Air is a bad computer, they think its not worth 1800(they don't get the whole Sub NoteBook thing...)...so it being free would negate the one big negative(in their eyes)....so of course they'd take it!

[diabolic]

You know what? I think you're absolutely right. I think people pissed at Apple for the MBA and hating the MBA--that's HATING the MBA, not merely "disappointed in," or not interested in buying it, or not having the money for it yet--HATING the MBA because Apple didn't listen to them.

I also think there's an element that is mad that they can't have the newest cool thing from Apple, because they want a higher spec system. The only thing they can do is say they don't really want the MBA, and it upsets them when they read people talking about how great it is.

They really wanted the next Apple thing to be a top end fast laptop or ultraportable with a zillion ports so THEY could talk about how great it is. Now that I think about it, they'd probably complain about those too.

[TechHistorian]

The premium on ultraportables is pretty unmeasurable, and to someone that isn't in the market, the price may seem steep. The Macbook Air isn't an ultraportable though. It is an attempt to re-define what ultraportable is. There are ultraportables smaller than the Air with more features. The only downfall to those units is that they don't run OSX.

Smallness isn't necessarily a positive. Some posters have mentioned the Asus EEE as better than the MBA: more features, smaller size, lower price. Of course, if you write for a living, the smaller keyboard and screen of the EEE are a huge negative. The drawback of most ultraportables (for me, at least) is the screen/keyboard. The MBA's "redefinition" is thus actually a fairly big positive ... as is the OS ;)

[fewture]

I was an initial MBA hater, now Ive changed:

People forget the following:

1. its not actually more expensive than other ultraportables. In many cases it costs less. DO NOT compare it to the Macbook. All ultraportables are much more expensive than faster computers
2. not everyone wants to work on a 11" screen - me included.
3. MBA gives you light and thin with 13" and proper size keyboard
4. MBA is much faster than other ultraportables and costs less than the mid to top range of Sony and Toshibas.

My predictions:

MBA2 with
2 usb ports (to shut everyone up)
3g modem option
replaceable battery (Ie, one sliding switch and its out)

I think the hate - is just Apple hate.


AND yes, it is ultraportable. Have you picked one up yet? Its so light and thin - a few inches shaved off the screen size would not make much difference. The weight and thinness make it ultra portable, as in the meaning of that word. I think they have redefined it.

[fewture]

Care to provide links to these supposed macbook and macbook pro haters? Anyone actually "down" on the products existing? All I've ever seen is people saying they prefer the air over the other lines. Last time I checked, preference does not mean they are running around calling people names (such as implying wanting a lighter notebook means you're weak) or posting trolls in the macbook/macbook pro forum.




ummm you are not reading enough. The initial reaction when it came out was negative. Look at all the PC Forums, most people hate it. Everywhere you go there is a split about it. But I have a feeling that its going to change, when people realise its actually a good ultraportable.

[cedar]

Hate is such a strong word. It isn't so much the "Air". The biggest problem is the people that lost muscle capacity overnight, and 2lbs turned into 20lbs.
Additionally, the Macbook Air isn't more portable than the Macbook. You will primarily use the same cases for each. If you have to tote several items around while commuting back and forth, that $2k would be better invested in a vehicle.

There simply is too much self-convincing going on with Macbook Air owners/hopefuls. You have $2k-$3k to burn on an over-priced product, which is fine. Avoid being on the forums embarrasing yourself talking about how 2lbs almost broke your arm.

There are probably a lot of PC-users that would argue that, based on specs, all Apple products are over-priced.

[mashoutposse]

There simply is too much self-convincing going on with Macbook Air owners/hopefuls.

There's far more "self-convincing" going on amongst the MBA haters. I'm going to explain to you EXACTLY what's going on in the minds of these people.

They are desperately trying to convince themselves that the MBA appeals to no one and that Apple f'ed up by not giving them their personal dream machine. It's that simple. These are the people who visit this subsection in the hopes of seeing lots of negative feedback from the owners. Upon learning that most owners are satisfied and some even highly! satisfied, they do all they can to rain on the parade, not realizing that changing someone's mind on the internet is one of the hardest things one can do :p

[cedar]

There's far more "self-convincing" going on amongst the MBA haters. I'm going to explain to you EXACTLY what's going on in the minds of these people.

They are desperately trying to convince themselves that the MBA appeals to no one and that Apple f'ed up by not giving them their personal dream machine. It's that simple. These are the people who visit this subsection in the hopes of seeing lots of negative feedback from the owners. Upon learning that most owners are satisfied and some even highly! satisfied, they do all they can to rain on the parade, not realizing that changing someone's mind on the internet is one of the hardest things one can do :p

lol Some folks are, frankly, rude. It's like getting a new car and your neighbor coming over and telling you what a piece of crap it is and that you got ripped off. I would never go over to the Macbook forum and start telling everybody that their machine was an overpriced piece of crap, even if I thought it was true (which I don't by the way).

[eric55lv]

I hate it. MacBook Air?Who ********** names a notebook Air? I would have gone with MacBook Slim or Thin. Second One USB port? Is it still the 90s?

[ob81]

There's far more "self-convincing" going on amongst the MBA haters. I'm going to explain to you EXACTLY what's going on in the minds of these people.

They are desperately trying to convince themselves that the MBA appeals to no one and that Apple f'ed up by not giving them their personal dream machine. It's that simple. These are the people who visit this subsection in the hopes of seeing lots of negative feedback from the owners. Upon learning that most owners are satisfied and some even highly! satisfied, they do all they can to rain on the parade, not realizing that changing someone's mind on the internet is one of the hardest things one can do :p

I agree to an extent, but you have to admit that some Macbook air users have been praising their systems, when in fact, there are some serious flaws with it. Can't install windows on bootcamp via remote disk (learned this after purchase). Battery not operating as advertised. The battery is the KEY aspect of an ultra-portable. The list goes on. None of these are fatal of course, but when a new problem comes up, MBA owners work extra hard to act as if it doesn't affect them.

I don't think anyone wants to change any minds here. At least that isn't my goal. I just feel a tad weird being a Mac fan right now with the way people are acting, to the point of feeling uncomfortable. My problem may be having Macrumors as my only apple community though.

[kyleen66]

It's like getting a new car and your neighbor coming over and telling you what a piece of crap it is and that you got ripped off.

I know people like that.

[ob81]

lol Some folks are, frankly, rude. It's like getting a new car and your neighbor coming over and telling you what a piece of crap it is and that you got ripped off. I would never go over to the Macbook forum and start telling everybody that their machine was an overpriced piece of crap, even if I thought it was true (which I don't by the way).

You and your neighbor had the same car. Your neighbor purchases a new car, comes to your home and makes lame excuses why the old car was crap and the new car saved his/her life. That is what the forums are like in the Air section. Not like your example.

[GlossyIsBad4U]

I don't know why you'd compare the MBA to a MBP. It is much more comparable to a Macbook, spec wise. It would be like comparing a Mini to a Mac Pro, of course the Pro is going to kick it's butt.

The reason I compared it to a MBP is because of the MBA SSD price tag.

The MBP is about $3000 with AppleCare, the MBA SSD is around $3000.

[mashoutposse]

You and your neighbor had the same car. Your neighbor purchases a new car, comes to your home and makes lame excuses why the old car was crap and the new car saved his/her life. That is what the forums are like in the Air section. Not like your example.

What if the old car was a 2-ton SUV that could carry seven people and the new car is a beautiful sportscar than 'only' seats two? :p

The haters all sound like the neighbor stuck with the SUV :D

[cedar]

You and your neighbor had the same car. Your neighbor purchases a new car, comes to your home and makes lame excuses why the old car was crap and the new car saved his/her life. That is what the forums are like in the Air section. Not like your example.

Uh, bad example. You are coming on the Air forum, our driveway so to speak. I don't think you have seen me on the Pro forum saying anything about my new purchase. And I've never said one negative thing about the rest of the Apple line. In fact, I agonized over the decision for quite a while, being a convert from a PC. I think they are all great computers. I just didn't need the extra power and the light-weight appealed to me. The extra bucks? Wasn't much of a factor. All Apples are over-priced anyway. ;)

[kuwisdelu]

Everything you mentioned is spot on. I stress again, why DOWN the Macbook/Macbook pro now that the Air has arrived? Read through the Air forums. People complain about the Air haters, when most of the Air adopters that previously owned Macbook/Macbook pros, are acting like they were on their last leg with the Macbook/MBP's after previously praising them. Ok. You can't lug the 2lbs. The Air came and saved your life. There are still tons of people that beleive that the Macbook/MBP are great systems. Stop trying to convince yourself that they aren't and that is why you bought the pro.

I also haven't seen any MacBook Air owners pretending they couldn't stand their MacBooks or MacBook Pro's any longer or anything like that. I really haven't seen anyone post that the MacBook or MBP's are bad systems at all, so I don't know where you're coming from. They've simply said that they went with the MacBook Air because its more convenient for them/they prefer it. How is that putting down the other systems?

They're ALL great systems. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses and they all have valid reasons for buying them. I have a MacBook. I think it's a great computer. I like the MacBook Air, too, and I would certainly like it for the convenience. Both of them would probably satisfy my needs, but I'm staying with the MacBook simply because I don't feel the need to buy a new computer right now. If that weren't the case, I'd probably have a hard choice. I haven't seen anyone hate on the MacBooks or MacBook Pros. Perhaps you could provide some quotes? Because we'd all happily have at them, too

I don't think anyone's trying to convince themselves the other systems aren't great. But I think it's pretty silly that you think anyone buying an Air would need to do any "self-convincing" to justify their purchase. Just because you don't like a computer and it doesn't satisfy your needs doesn't mean it isn't perfect for someone else.

[ob81]

Uh, bad example. You are coming on the Air forum, our driveway so to speak. I don't think you have seen me on the Pro forum saying anything about my new purchase. And I've never said one negative thing about the rest of the Apple line. In fact, I agonized over the decision for quite a while, being a convert from a PC. I think they are all great computers. I just didn't need the extra power and the light-weight appealed to me. The extra bucks? Wasn't much of a factor. All Apples are over-priced anyway. ;)

I come to the Air forums because I enjoy checking out the pictures and reading how some users came to aquire their unit.

Every Air user isn't running around the forums trying to justify their purchases. Only some. :D

[kuwisdelu]

You and your neighbor had the same car. Your neighbor purchases a new car, comes to your home and makes lame excuses why the old car was crap and the new car saved his/her life. That is what the forums are like in the Air section. Not like your example.

Oh wow. Umm... what mashoutposse said....

What if the old car was a 2-ton SUV that could carry seven people and the new car is a beautiful sportscar than 'only' seats two? :p

The haters all sound like the neighbor stuck with the SUV :D

Exactly. But it's the guy with the SUV that comes over and tells the new owner how useless his new sportscar is, when the sportscar owner is just trying to enjoy his new car and is happy about his purchase, and doesn't really care what the SUV owner thinks, but is curious why he cares so much about raining on his parade. Not to mention the sportscar owner thinks the SUV is a great car, too. In fact, he may have one himself, but he thought the sportscar would be great to drive when he doesn't need to bring around 6 passengers.

[mashoutposse]

I agree to an extent, but you have to admit that some Macbook air users have been praising their systems, when in fact, there are some serious flaws with it. Can't install windows on bootcamp via remote disk (learned this after purchase). Battery not operating as advertised. The battery is the KEY aspect of an ultra-portable. The list goes on. None of these are fatal of course, but when a new problem comes up, MBA owners work extra hard to act as if it doesn't affect them.

The BootCamp situation is regrettable. I always intended to purchase the SuperDrive, so this never was a factor for me. I agree that Remote Disk turned out to be a huge letdown.

Battery: I think most that are suffering through those problems are complaining and/or actively looking for a resolution. The only posts close to being defensive from what I can see are from people who are actually getting near the advertised times (I never posted about the issue, but I am getting 4.5 hours of surfing with WiFi On and 50% brightness).

The system still deserves praise. There are notable issues with both the MB (build quality) and MBP (heat), as well -- most still consider these computers to be excellent in spite of the problems.

I don't think anyone wants to change any minds here. At least that isn't my goal. I just feel a tad weird being a Mac fan right now with the way people are acting, to the point of feeling uncomfortable. My problem may be having Macrumors as my only apple community though.

Consider this: there are practically no MBA posts in the MB/MBP section. No justifications, no trolling, no nothing. It's not the MBA owners who are acting strangely...

[cedar]

Being a new member of the Apple family, I really feel the love. You guys make me feel right at home.:D

[mashoutposse]

Exactly. But it's the guy with the SUV that comes over and tells the new owner how useless his new sportscar is, when the sportscar owner is just trying to enjoy his new car and is happy about his purchase, and doesn't really care what the SUV owner thinks, but is curious why he cares so much about raining on his parade. Not to mention the sportscar owner thinks the SUV is a great car, too. In fact, he may have one himself, but he thought the sportscar would be great to drive when he doesn't need to bring around 6 passengers.

I like that ;) That's on point.

[Average Joe]

I've had a 15 inch Powerbook for just over 3 years, and have been looking to replace it with a lighter, more portable computer. This is the first Mac I have ever owned.

I use maybe 10% of the power of this machine, and suspect that is consistent with many other folks. Certainly, if it isn't consistent with other users, I think that Apple are targeting folks who aren't real "heavy" users. I like the cool AL body, I love the ease of use, and all I use is MS Office, IM, internet and a couple of other small apps.

I have ordered myself a MacBook Air because it it light. I travel and instead of my POS Dell that my company gives me, I take my Mac. OK, so in the far reaches of the world, I need the USB ethernet adaptor, but I really don't care about the extra 2 oz.

I think that the target market for this book are the people like myself. I don't profess to be a genius. I have limited needs, but I like something cool, and something light weight.

I also spoke with my boss. A die hard PC guy who has bought his daughter a MBP (last summer) for school. He has played with this, and prefers it to PC.

The strategy has been mentioned elsewhere. Get in the hands of those who can make corporate decisions, and the Mac will start to spread throughout the corporate networks. That is where Apple will see huge growth.

Sure, my preference was a real sleek 12 inch machine with CD / DVD drive. But, thinking about it, I am really happy. I have these dreams about watching DVDs on planes.. it doesn't happen.. I work. Downloading or ripping DVDs to the hard drive isn't a big deal. If I pay a couple of $ before I get on a plane, maybe I will actually watch the movie.

Anyways, in a nutshell... I don't believe it's perfect, but its a great thing at the moment. I have NEVER swapped a battery out so I don't care about that (Airline adaptors are the way to go, and in many cases, you don't even need an adaptor these days).... its a good thing.

Mac people have a higher than average population of people who are really in to high end powerful computing... this brings it to the more typical level, I believe, where all you use are internet, MS Office and little else.

I hope the MBA does well, I hope that Apple stock does well ( I don't own any), and I hope everyone can see some good in what is happening.... don't bring Apple products and the Mac community down with pathetic bitching and moaning.

Cheers (And roll on Feb 15th when I get my MBA delivered!!!)

[HLdan]

I hate it. MacBook Air?Who ********** names a notebook Air? I would have gone with MacBook Slim or Thin. Second One USB port? Is it still the 90s?

Firstly I hope you're kidding. If you're not then you're one of these or all of them:

Jealous, shortsighted, financially challenged, or stupid.

Based on your post most would know which one you are. Also FYI the AIR means totally wireless computer. :p

BTW speaking of the 90's your Mac in your sig isn't exactly up to date state of the art either.

[katejones]

I didnt see no one screaming that an asus eepc was the future. Solidstate , wireless, no drive, cheap, ultraultraportable non windows machine! they even come in pink?

[dsnort]

Being a new member of the Apple family, I really feel the love. You guys make me feel right at home.:D

LMAO

Great post cedar! Welcome to the family. Take note that it's highly dysfunctional.

[mashoutposse]

I didnt see no one screaming that an asus eepc was the future. Solidstate , wireless, no drive, cheap, ultraultraportable non windows machine! they even come in pink?

Have you looked at the specs?

[kuwisdelu]

I didnt see no one screaming that an asus eepc was the future. Solidstate , wireless, no drive, cheap, ultraultraportable non windows machine! they even come in pink?

The Eee is great for those who can work within its limitations, especially for the price, but it if there are people who don't find the Air powerful enough, just imagine what they must think of the Eee's power. Probably, the Eee isn't quite powerful enough to really come to many people's mind as a viable computer, but the same could be said of the MacBook Air by some people...well, I know I could work within the limits of the Air, even as a single computer, but I couldn't with the Eee.

[chutzpah]

The thing might have some user specific, case sensitive flaws, like a lack of ethernet, or too big a footprint, or number of slots, whatever. A reasonable person can understand these things and accept that the air doesn't fit their needs.

The air also has some pretty glaring, undeniable flaws that I don't think anyone can justify.

The battery is the biggest one. It's not user replaceable. You know what? Fine. That'd be great if the thing got anywhere near its advertised running time, but the fact is, it doesn't. Can anyone, anyone, here justify the fact that you will be paying 2000-3000 dollars for a computer that lasts between two and three hours? Three and a half, at most?

That's just a necessity of ultraportable computers. If you can't swap the battery out for a new one, you best be getting a decent amount of time out of the air. The fact you can't is poor engineering on apple's part, plain and simple.

[diabolic]

Can anyone, anyone, here justify the fact that you will be paying 2000-3000 dollars for a computer that lasts between two and three hours? Three and a half, at most?

I paid more than that for a Dell XPS that lasts about 2 hours. On the Air, I've been getting over 4 hours per charge.

[kuwisdelu]

The battery is the biggest one. It's not user replaceable. You know what? Fine. That'd be great if the thing got anywhere near its advertised running time, but the fact is, it doesn't. Can anyone, anyone, here justify the fact that you will be paying 2000-3000 dollars for a computer that lasts between two and three hours? Three and a half, at most?

I love how the anti-MBA movement keeps quoting these tests "proving" the MacBook Air has terrible battery life. At most three and a half hours? If you look into the battery threads here, you'll see that most Mac Rumors users have been getting that as something of a minimum (assuming you're not watching movies or something).

[chutzpah]

I love how the anti-MBA movement keeps quoting these tests "proving" the MacBook Air has terrible battery life. At most three and a half hours? If you look into the battery threads here, you'll see that most Mac Rumors users have been getting that as something of a minimum (assuming you're not watching movies or something).

I see a handful of people doing a bare minimum and getting about four and a half. Like, a word processor, and screen dimmed way down.

There's something to be said when every review I've read runs statistical and personal tests, only claiming a very small amount of (reasonable) usage time.

Hell, there's a poor battery life thread floating around for this.

Some people are fine with this. Is it really justifying the price though? And the tapering of the computer, couldn't the appearance of it being thinner be compromised by having a larger battery?

Nothing about this seems like a good deal, especially not this version. Maybe down the road, the air will become a more viable option, but I just can't seem to wrap my head around why and how people are justifying so many faults.

[kuwisdelu]

I see a handful of people doing a bare minimum and getting about four and a half. Like, a word processor, and screen dimmed way down.

There's something to be said when every review I've read runs statistical and personal tests, only claiming a very small amount of (reasonable) usage time.

Hell, there's a poor battery life thread floating around for this.

Some people are fine with this. Is it really justifying the price though? And the tapering of the computer, couldn't the appearance of it being thinner be compromised by having a larger battery?

Nothing about this seems like a good deal, especially not this version. Maybe down the road, the air will become a more viable option, but I just can't seem to wrap my head around why and how people are justifying so many faults.

The battery test that seemed to best replicate what people would actually use it for was posted somewhere on the News/Discussions forum. They ran three tests for light/med/heavy usage, and they got about 4 1/2 hours or so for the light usage, and in my opinion, it was fairly heavy light usage (i.e., speakers blasting for all four hours).

There will always be duds for every kind of spec. The MacBook Air does seem to have a few more battery duds than other Apple laptops (though I still say it seems to get closer to its estimate than other Apple laptops) but Apple will also replace them for free with a good one, if you're having trouble. Apple has also shown that there are fixes (such as the power management reset) that the correct some of the battery issues people are having. I'm not sure where the trouble is there, then, as the people without trouble are getting pretty good life, and those with trouble can get fixes/replacements with little trouble (for the most part).

If you're someone who really needs to try to "justify" the price in your mind, then you probably shouldn't be buying the MacBook Air, anyway. From the testimonials so far, it seems to me like the battery life is pretty good--not ideal, but at least as good if not better than a MacBook and blowing away the MacBook Pro's. Maybe if you were expecting a 6 or 7 hour battery life, then this is majorly disappointing, but I think anyone with a realistic expectation of battery life shouldn't find much lacking here.

If you can't find any kind of good deal here, then don't worry about it. Move on. No one's making you buy one. There are obviously other people who think it's a good deal and don't find the battery an issue.

[mrklaw]

The thing might have some user specific, case sensitive flaws, like a lack of ethernet, or too big a footprint, or number of slots, whatever. A reasonable person can understand these things and accept that the air doesn't fit their needs.

The air also has some pretty glaring, undeniable flaws that I don't think anyone can justify.

The battery is the biggest one. It's not user replaceable. You know what? Fine. That'd be great if the thing got anywhere near its advertised running time, but the fact is, it doesn't. Can anyone, anyone, here justify the fact that you will be paying 2000-3000 dollars for a computer that lasts between two and three hours? Three and a half, at most?

That's just a necessity of ultraportable computers. If you can't swap the battery out for a new one, you best be getting a decent amount of time out of the air. The fact you can't is poor engineering on apple's part, plain and simple.



thats a nice bait and switch. You first sooth people by agreeing that some flaws are personal and so come down to individual choice. But then you slam the battery as a massive flaw? Surely its exactly the same situation. Battery can't be replaced on the road, user decides whether thats ok? How is that different from 'no ethernet, user decides if thats ok'?

As for the battery, I've never replaced a battery in a laptop, and they've all been replaceable. I simply don't want to carry the extra weight around just in case the battery runs out. I do tend to power it from seat power on a plane, or maybe I'm lucky enough to be near power. And the compact laptops that my colleagues use (eg x60/61) have the extended battery on the back. So they aren't replacing the internal one either. I'd expect someone to come up with external packs that attach to the magsafe connector, giving you that backup power if you need it.

But it isn't really an issue to me. If it is to you, then don't buy the machine - just like all the other differences between the range - its called making an informed purchasing decision

[weckart]

Then why don't you back up your statements rather than just making broad generalizations based off your ill-defined personal feelings.

Beg pardon? Does the expression "physician, heal thyself!" mean anything to you. It should.


I don't see how you mean this. I thought it pretty clearly occupies the spot of Apple's ultraportable option. The MacBook is for those who want an Apple laptop, but not one quite as powerful or expensive as the MacBook Pro, and don't value the extra portability of the Air for its sacrifices; the MacBook Air is for those who are always moving around and really need the most portable option they can get, and don't mind the reduced feature set.

The whole disappointment centres around that fact that it should occupy that spot, but fails to do so. The portability aspect is compromised by its occupying the same footprint, which can only add to its fragility.

A previous poster put it most succinctly. Before the Air was launched, the forums were full of what people were looking for in an ultra portable, with some quite radical designs in amongst the more useful ideas. Nobody, but nobody was saying that they would like yet another Macbook, if only it were much thinner.

[stevegmu]

I think some people 'hate' the MBA, because they want it to have 1TB storage, 5 USB ports, a gaming graphix card, a DVD burner, a battery that lasts 10 hours, yet still be the same size, and cost under $1000.
Some people will never be happy with any new product.

[kabunaru]

I don't hate the MacBook Air. It's a nice computer and will do well for the people it's intended for. :)

[janstett]

What if the old car was a 2-ton SUV that could carry seven people and the new car is a beautiful sportscar than 'only' seats two? :p

The haters all sound like the neighbor stuck with the SUV :D

Only in this case, the "beautiful sportscar" does indeed look beautiful with a low and sleek body, but has the same freakishly gigantic and inappropriate wheelbase as the SUV (footprint of the Macbook Air vs Macbook Pro). And it doesn't have a very good engine like other true sports cars do. And it doesn't have a limited slip differential like other sports cars do (lack of features found on other ultraportables). And it has the "look-I-care" smug factor (ssd drive for $1k).

So in the end it's a wanna-be sports car for poseurs. It's the Honda Del-Sol or Ford Probe of sports cars.

[devilot]

Only in this case, the "beautiful sportscar" does indeed look beautiful with a low and sleek body, but has the same gigantic wheelbase as the SUV (footprint of the Macbook Air vs Macbook Pro). And it doesn't have a very good engine like other sports cars do. And it doesn't have a limited slip differential like other sports cars do (lack of features found on other ultraportables).

So in the end it's a wanna-be sports car for poseurs.Sorry, if you wanna go w/ that analogy, it's probably better to clarify: wider wheel bases when low to the ground are good. Better stance, better grasp of the road. And yes, some "luxury" features get dropped on decent sports cars/ roadsters-- like cup holders because if you're buying and driving certain cars like that, you're in it for that kind of performance.

All in all, the analogy is odd and doesn't quite work out because people typically think of sports cars as being fast. And people think performance = more power and faster. Which truly, isn't always the case. Miatas are some of the best trackers. But they're not particularly known for their straight line. Guess that's a decent comparison. Elises have 4-bangers instead of the 8+ cylinders others usually expect or want out of a "sports car" but again, different strokes for different folks. The person who buys and drives an Elise or Miata wants and needs a very different experience from the person who buys an Enzo.

[janstett]

^ well yes, the car-computer analogies are always somewhat tortured. The wheelbase/footprint analogy has some merits and some drawback.

While lower/wider generally applies to supercars, a shorter/narrower wheelbase in sports cars also equates to nimbleness and agility -- quick turn in.

Anyway, I think we both realize the analogy is somewhat tortured and we can let it drop.

My biggest disappointment in the MBA is the footprint.

I sort of want an MBA for surfing around the house but I can't pull the trigger jsut for that. But for business travel and footprint my Thinkpad X61 hits the right marks, as did the 12" PB of yore. I just can't fit the MBA on a coach seat tray.

[mashoutposse]

I love car analogies :p

Only in this case, the "beautiful sportscar" does indeed look beautiful with a low and sleek body, but has the same freakishly gigantic and inappropriate wheelbase as the SUV (footprint of the Macbook Air vs Macbook Pro).

The MBA's footprint is definitely better than the MBP's. Still, the MBA's dimensions are much more like a wide Ferrari or a 911 Turbo with flared fenders ;)

And it doesn't have a very good engine like other true sports cars do.

The MBA is the fastest ultrathin 3-pounds-and-under that money can buy. It is nearly twice as fast as the ULV CPU-powered Sony TZ, another "true sportscar" by our definition.

And it doesn't have a limited slip differential like other sports cars do (lack of features found on other ultraportables).

Nah, more like a purpose-built spartan, carbon fiber-laden interior with no radio or power windows -- think Ferrari F40 or Lotus Exige.

There are no screens in the headrests or flip-out in-dash DVD players to distract from the business of driving (computing). You just get the best seats and steering feel possible (class-leading screen and keyboard) bolted to a fantastic chassis made from exotic materials (superslim aluminum body).

And it has the "look-I-care" smug factor (ssd drive for $1k).

The best suspension setup money can buy :D

So in the end it's a wanna-be sports car for poseurs. It's the Honda Del-Sol or Ford Probe of sports cars.

Nope :) You wish, though, I'm sure :p

All in good fun!

[ctt1wbw]

Here's the best car analogy:

The Macbook Air doesn't cost 300 monthly on insurance. :)

[AppleIntelRock]

I love car analogies :p



The MBA's footprint is definitely better than the MBP's. Still, the MBA's dimensions are much more like a wide Ferrari or a 911 Turbo with flared fenders ;)



The MBA is the fastest ultrathin 3-pounds-and-under that money can buy. It is nearly twice as fast as the ULV CPU-powered Sony TZ, another "true sportscar" by our definition.



Nah, more like a purpose-built spartan, carbon fiber-laden interior with no radio or power windows -- think Ferrari F40 or Lotus Exige.

There are no screens in the headrests or flip-out in-dash DVD players to distract from the business of driving (computing). You just get the best seats and steering feel possible (class-leading screen and keyboard) bolted to a fantastic chassis made from exotic materials (superslim aluminum body).



The best suspension setup money can buy :D



Nope :) You wish, though, I'm sure :p

All in good fun!

The Problem with the F40 analogy is that you can't really use an F40 everyday... you can use a Macbook Air every day (I take mine everywhere)

So by my very complicated math equation, rounding Pi to ten decimal places.

Macbook Air=8
F40=7

[Macintosh Man]

The thing might have some user specific, case sensitive flaws, like a lack of ethernet, or too big a footprint, or number of slots, whatever. A reasonable person can understand these things and accept that the air doesn't fit their needs.

The air also has some pretty glaring, undeniable flaws that I don't think anyone can justify.

The battery is the biggest one. It's not user replaceable. You know what? Fine. That'd be great if the thing got anywhere near its advertised running time, but the fact is, it doesn't. Can anyone, anyone, here justify the fact that you will be paying 2000-3000 dollars for a computer that lasts between two and three hours? Three and a half, at most?

That's just a necessity of ultraportable computers. If you can't swap the battery out for a new one, you best be getting a decent amount of time out of the air. The fact you can't is poor engineering on apple's part, plain and simple.

Well said, but unfortunately some of us here are such big Apple fanboys that if Steve Jobs pooped in a plastic bag, slapped an :apple: logo on it and sold it for $3,000, many would swear it's worth every penny. :D I'm not saying the MBA is poop, after all it does run Mac OS X which puts it way ahead of the competition but should be sold at $899.00 tops. If it's that stripped down why not strip down the price to match it? Oh that's right, it's thin. Price justified. :rolleyes:

[ob81]

Well said, but unfortunately some of us here are such big Apple fanboys that if Steve Jobs pooped in a plastic bag, slapped an :apple: logo on it and sold it for $3,000, many would swear it's worth every penny. :D I'm not saying the MBA is poop, after all it does run Mac OS X which puts it way ahead of the competition but should be sold at $899.00 tops. If it's that stripped down why not strip down the price to match it? Oh that's right, it's thin. Price justified. :rolleyes:

For it's purpose (questionable ultraportable) it is priced near fair. The fact that you have to buy the external writer, remote, and other things is what really puts the price up there. The price seems weird du eto the MBA being one of the most expensive 13" laptops on the market. That is where the arguement gets stuck. On one hand one could argue that the MBA is not a true Ultraportable at 13", thus it is over-priced, and on the other one could argue that the MBA is the new way that ultraportables will be, and the price is similar to any other ultra-portable.

[kuwisdelu]

On one hand one could argue that the MBA is not a true Ultraportable at 13", thus it is over-priced, and on the other one could argue that the MBA is the new way that ultraportables will be, and the price is similar to any other ultra-portable.

Or one could just argue that it's Apple's interpretation of an ultraportable, which offers its own strengths and weaknesses as an ultraportable that some will like and some won't like, but as an ultraportable, it is priced as fairly as the rest of them.

[MazingerZ]

Well said, but unfortunately some of us here are such big Apple fanboys that if Steve Jobs pooped in a plastic bag, slapped an :apple: logo on it and sold it for $3,000, many would swear it's worth every penny. :D I'm not saying the MBA is poop, after all it does run Mac OS X which puts it way ahead of the competition but should be sold at $899.00 tops. If it's that stripped down why not strip down the price to match it? Oh that's right, it's thin. Price justified. :rolleyes:

Wow...an Apple insider in our midsts! Do you actually know how much each MBA costs to make? R&D Costs? Overhead and margins? Or did you just pull that number out of you a$$? :p

[HLdan]

Well said, but unfortunately some of us here are such big Apple fanboys that if Steve Jobs pooped in a plastic bag, slapped an :apple: logo on it and sold it for $3,000, many would swear it's worth every penny. :D I'm not saying the MBA is poop, after all it does run Mac OS X which puts it way ahead of the competition but should be sold at $899.00 tops. If it's that stripped down why not strip down the price to match it? Oh that's right, it's thin. Price justified. :rolleyes:

See the problem with your opinion on the AIR's price mimics the ignorant argument that a person can get a Dell XPS 1530 with similar specs to the MBP for a lot less.

Specs don't tell all the story, there's a lot more involved, one big thing being that of the fit and finish.
Dell's fit and finish stinks. The outer casing is cheap and the keyboard is cheap and that makes a big difference on longevity and resale value. After a couple of years the Dell will look aged from wear and tear.

The MBA AIR's fit and finish is outstanding. It's better than the MBP. The alu shell is very strong and durable and the keyboard is stronger as well and much better than the MBP or the Macbook keyboard.
Fit and finish makes a big difference for me when I buy things. Features are important but so what if the thing is cheap. What I hate about the black and white Macbook is the white one scratches way too easily and gets dirty and the black one (while matte) picks up fingerprints and will show signs of wear.

[Catch]

Well said, but unfortunately some of us here are such big Apple fanboys that if Steve Jobs pooped in a plastic bag, slapped an :apple: logo on it and sold it for $3,000, many would swear it's worth every penny. :D I'm not saying the MBA is poop, after all it does run Mac OS X which puts it way ahead of the competition but should be sold at $899.00 tops. If it's that stripped down why not strip down the price to match it? Oh that's right, it's thin. Price justified. :rolleyes:

Did it ever occur to you that Apple may have priced this thing where it is to fit in to the pricing of its other laptops. Selling things is a complex business and many variables must be considered. Even if it was cheap to produce, which I doubt very much, Steve would want to price and position this laptop to complement Apples range and not cannibalize other ranges. Regardless, the machine is priced where Apple needs it to be.

If you cannot justify the price, buy something cheaper, or more feature packed. Enjoy carrying around that super drive without using it 'in case someone asks you to load something'...

So if a machine fits your needs you are a 'fanboi', 'retarded', 'rich', or now to top it all a 'Steve poop lover'... Grow up already...

I do wonder what would happen to the number of 'whiners' if all the 'gamers' would just go back to the MBP forums. Something tells me there would be very little 'whining' going on...


Regards,

C

[MacRumorUser]

So if a machine fits your needs you are a 'fanboi', 'retarded', 'rich', or now to top it all a 'Steve poop lover'... Grow up already...

I do wonder what would happen to the number of 'whiners' if all the 'gamers' would just go back to the MBP forums. Something tells me there would be very little 'whining' going on...



Apparently it does going on the level of venomous bile that has been spat out by these supposed purveyors of all knowledge who assume we are all wrong for liking the macbook air and finding it fits within 'our' budgets.

How dare we find a niche for this product.. How very dare we.



Conspiracy..

I suspect that the macbook air was not manufactured in China at all, and may indeed have been produced in the fires of 'Mordor' , for as this beast was released unto the unsuspecting public, the forums became over run with bitter ugly trolls. Surely it can't just be a co-incidence ;):)

[janstett]

I paid more than that for a Dell XPS that lasts about 2 hours. On the Air, I've been getting over 4 hours per charge.

the difference is that the XPS is one of those ultrapowerful laptops that uses a desktop CPU, isn't it? Like an Alienware. Wrong end of the spectrum.

There is another flaw to the battery design -- not just that you can't remove it but it's not expandable. On some like lenovo and dell the 8 cell batteries can bump out the back. Combined with a 2nd battery in the modular drive bay you can get 8 hour computing. This is another gigantic failure of the MacBook air IMO.

[ctt1wbw]

Well said, but unfortunately some of us here are such big Apple fanboys that if Steve Jobs pooped in a plastic bag, slapped an :apple: logo on it and sold it for $3,000, many would swear it's worth every penny. :D I'm not saying the MBA is poop, after all it does run Mac OS X which puts it way ahead of the competition but should be sold at $899.00 tops. If it's that stripped down why not strip down the price to match it? Oh that's right, it's thin. Price justified. :rolleyes:

It's not stripped down for Christ sake. Many ultraportables don't have an optical drive. I've been using mine for a week, but I wonder how, since it doesn't have an optical drive. I'm surprised it barely turns on because of it. :rolleyes:

And I haven't even used the usb mouse because this touchpad is so simple and easy to use. So that leaves me with only ONE usb enabled device and that's my Canon G7 Powershot. I don't own any firewire devices, in fact I've never owned a firewire device. So how is this stripped down? It's almost as fast as my new Dell Inspiron laptop, which has a 1.6 C2D in it, too. :rolleyes:

[diabolic]

the difference is that the XPS is one of those ultrapowerful laptops that uses a desktop CPU, isn't it? Like an Alienware. Wrong end of the spectrum.

I realize the differences. I was just talking price vs. battery life.

It's ridiculous that the same people that complain the MBA is underpowered are also expecting 7 hours of battery life. For the processor power it has, which is more than competitors, the battery has been fine, at least in my case. They can't just magically put 7 hours of battery life in there. There are plenty of tradeoffs that have to be made.

I think it hits a sweet spot having more processor power than other ultraportables while maintaining a relatively large screen and full keyboard.

I don't see people running flawless 1080p HD video on their Sony TZs or Asus EEEs, but if the MBA hiccups while trying it, then it's a design problem with the MBA. Hilarious.

[ctt1wbw]

I realize the differences. I was just talking price vs. battery life.

It's ridiculous that the same people that complain the MBA is underpowered are also expecting 7 hours of battery life. For the processor power it has, which is more than competitors, the battery has been fine, at least in my case. They can't just magically put 7 hours of battery life in there. There are plenty of tradeoffs that have to be made.

I think it hits a sweet spot having more processor power than other ultraportables while maintaining a relatively large screen and full keyboard.

I don't see people running flawless 1080p HD video on their Sony TZs or Asus EEEs, but if the MBA hiccups while trying it, then it's a design problem with the MBA. Hilarious.

That's it! I've had it up to HERE! I'm suing Apple. :)

[dsnort]

I suspect that the macbook air was not manufactured in China at all, and may indeed have been produced in the fires of 'Mordor' , for as this beast was released unto the unsuspecting public, the forums became over run with bitter ugly trolls. Surely it can't just be a co-incidence ;):)

No coincidence, it's a very common and oft repeated phenomenon here on the forums.

Every time Apple releases a new product, the forums become populated with "New Members" who have "been a Mac fan since SJ was playing with building blocks", but who just happened to join MacRumors this very day so that the rest of the members can have benefit of their superior knowledge of all things computer to illustrate how "Apple really blew it this time", the new product is an "obvious rip off", because you can "buy a similarly specced ABC POC comp for $xx.xx less", etc etc ad nauseum.......

But don't dare call them Trolls.....