Mac OS X 10.5.2 Not Quite Ready Yet (9C30 Seeded)

[SpY2K]

I'm sure it will be worth the wait... :cool:

[jimthorn]

Any word on the Leopard Graphics Update? Is that also being updated for final release along with 10.5.2? The GMA X3100 driver in the MacBook/MacBook Air needs serious fixing. *fingers crossed*

[IT-Pro]

Someone posted a thread at Insanely Mac Forums with some (exlusive) information and screenshots about the new Leopard update as well as the graphics update.

link (http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=85959)

[cvahl]

There is an update! But just for iPhoto... :(

[Sky Blue]

and Quicktime Broadcaster

[IT-Pro]

I'm downloading the iPhoto Update with just 20 kB/s. Is everyone experiencing these extremely slow speeds?

Maybe people should stop pushing that "Check" button for 10.5.2. It won't come today, Apple isn't quite ready. They're near but not yet ready.

[Sky Blue]

I'm downloading the iPhoto Update with just 20 kB/s. Is everyone experiencing these extremely slow speeds?

Maybe people should stop pushing that "Check" button for 10.5.2. It won't come today, Apple isn't quite ready. They're near but not yet ready.

Did mine 5 mins ago, went super fast.

[iCeFuSiOn]

There is an update! But just for iPhoto... :(
Any idea on what it fixes? "General compatibility issues with Mac OS X"? :p
I'm willing to bet Apple are going to update their applications before they roll out 10.5.2 just to make sure everything goes smoothly for their customers.

Updated so far:

Numbers '08 - Updated
Pages '08 - Updated
Keynote '08 - Updated
iWeb '08 - Updated
iPhoto '08 - Updated


Things to be updated (possibly), list far from complete but I'm not sure what else would need updates:

iMovie '08
iDVD '08
GarageBand '08

[skyrider007]

Do I need the ProKit update if i don't use any Pro software?

[iCeFuSiOn]

How many updates are on Software Update right now? I'm not home right now so I can't look.

[seclusion]

Do I need the ProKit update if i don't use any Pro software?

Man how can we be a Pro if we don't have that update.
:p
Later
Helped out with Logic 8 in Leopard, seems a lot less CPU floating up and down.

[skyrider007]

How many updates are on Software Update right now? I'm not home right now so I can't look.

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/

[IT-Pro]

Any idea on what it fixes? "General compatibility issues with Mac OS X"? :p
I'm willing to bet Apple are going to update their applications before they roll out 10.5.2 just to make sure everything goes smoothly for their customers.
[]
Actually, the iWork Updates issued last week (Pages, Keynote, Numbers) broke my iWork installation. Both Pages and Keynote missed some nib file(s) which caused the windows not to appear any more. Numbers behaved really strange as well.

[pounce]

As much as I dislike Windows Vista, I do have to say one thing. Bashing MS for charging more for the "Ultimate" edition is probably slightly misguided.

For starters, it's apparently the only version of Vista that includes DVDs with *both* a 32-bit and a 64-bit version of the OS on them. (That means some Vista Ultimate buyers are making back a few bucks reselling the version they're not interested in installing. See eBay for many examples of this.)

But more importantly, Vista Ultimate includes the "media center" functionality which Apple still lacks. All we got from Apple is "Front Row". While slick-looking, Front Row is frankly little more than a vehicle to help boost the sales of content purchased from iTunes. If it's not directly related to material you can buy from the iTunes store, Front Row doesn't really work with it (other than displaying your photos from iPhoto).

I just sold my g/f a new iMac 20" of mine. She upgraded from a PC running XP Media Center edition. So far, she's largely disappointed, because first - she had to spend another $100 on a TV tuner and software just to get back *some* of what her Media Center PC could do. Then, we discovered the tuner we bought couldn't do "time shifting" of live TV broadcasts coming from her analog cable company's signal. For that, she had to spend about $80 more on a more advanced tuner solution. (XP Media Center handled all of this "out of the box".)

Even after we buy the better tuner, it STILL won't tune in FM radio stations like Media Center did, and the integration isn't there either. (EG. You need two remote controls, one for the TV software and one for Front Row. You can't even make the "EyeTV" software plug in as another menu option on Front Row's menu or anything. The two act like totally independent apps, despite making perfect sense to be integrated as one front-end for media.)


agreed on all counts. as much as i can't stand to be on windows any more, getting things like media integration really really right makes lots of sense for apple. especially with them so buddy buddy with content creators, with their ipods, apple tv's, and the like. i have all of that stuff. i'd like to see great media integration all around and have things works flawlessly with the apple tv. please.

[SharkySharky]

Actually iMovie was updated at MWSF as well as an update for Quicktime and also Front Row

*edit* As well as iTunes. Forgot about that one! ha!


Any idea on what it fixes? "General compatibility issues with Mac OS X"? :p
I'm willing to bet Apple are going to update their applications before they roll out 10.5.2 just to make sure everything goes smoothly for their customers.

Updated so far:

Numbers '08 - Updated
Pages '08 - Updated
Keynote '08 - Updated
iWeb '08 - Updated
iPhoto '08 - Updated


Things to be updated (possibly), list far from complete but I'm not sure what else would need updates:

iMovie '08
iDVD '08
GarageBand '08

[zeuszen]

I wonder if 10.5.2 will include changes to the directory in permissions, so the SUID warnings may no longer slow the repairs. And will the 'time remaining' (under progress bar) report accurately?

[BRLawyer]

Just bookmarked this post - if 10.5.2 turns out to be a train wreck, it will be fun.

Please do, I will remember you bookmarked it anyway...just don't complain about the backlash afterwards...:rolleyes:

[skyrider007]

Any chance we will see this update by the end of today?

[csalm87]

Any chance we will see this update by the end of today?

We could, but probably not.

[Ant1-Hero]

id be tickled pink with just the graphics update, i want better drivers for my 8600m GT

[Eric S.]

Any chance we will see this update by the end of today?

Chance? Sure, there's always a chance. That and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee. :rolleyes:

Someone was asking about which days of the week updates usually are released. Here is a summary:

10.0.1 - 10.0.4: Saturday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday
10.1.1 - 10.1.5: Tuesday (twice), Wednesday, Thursday (twice)
10.2.1 - 10.2.8: Monday (twice), Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday (3 times), Friday
10.3.1 - 10.3.9: Sunday, Monday (twice), Wednesday (4 times), Friday (twice)
10.4.1 - 10.4.11: Monday (3 times), Tuesday (5 times), Wednesday (twice), Friday,
10.5.1: Thursday

I'm afraid I don't see much of a pattern.

[seclusion]

No pattern most likely because they'd release it when it's done not when they think people would like it!
;)

[nemaslov]

Does the new iPhoto bring back the print option to print X UP images? That was the stupidest deletion in the new iPhoto.

[kabunaru]

Chance? Sure, there's always a chance. That and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee. :rolleyes:

Someone was asking about which days of the week updates usually are released. Here is a summary:

10.0.1 - 10.0.4: Saturday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday
10.1.1 - 10.1.5: Tuesday (twice), Wednesday, Thursday (twice)
10.2.1 - 10.2.8: Monday (twice), Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday (3 times), Friday
10.3.1 - 10.3.9: Sunday, Monday (twice), Wednesday (4 times), Friday (twice)
10.4.1 - 10.4.11: Monday (3 times), Tuesday (5 times), Wednesday (twice), Friday,
10.5.1: Thursday

I'm afraid I don't see much of a pattern.

I think Wednesday is the most common/ highest chance Apple will release a system update like this.

[Neil321]

I wonder if 10.5.2 will include changes to the directory in permissions, so the SUID warnings may no longer slow the repairs. And will the 'time remaining' (under progress bar) report accurately?

whould'nt downloading the update from apple's site rather than software
update sort that out as you wont have the SUID warnings in the first place

[bmcgrath]

I hope this update fixes my problems with Aperture. It randomly quits on me. :mad:

Although I know it's Aperture that really needs the update. OS update probably wont do much.

[Quillz]

Lol, I have one word for you... TROLL

You have one post here. Do you have nothing better to do with your life? Sad...
And yet when Apple fanboys make the EXACT SAME POST (except moving from Vista -> Leopard) they are heralded as "heros," "speaking the truth," etc.

[RaceTripper]

And yet when Apple fanboys make the EXACT SAME POST (except moving from Vista -> Leopard) they are heralded as "heros," "speaking the truth," etc.Maybe that happens, but the "Vista" guy (with 1 post) really was being a troll. That part was obvious.

[eauh]

Maybe that happens, but the "Vista" guy (with 1 post) really was being a troll. That part was obvious.

Oh, was it? Did you happen to read any other posts I put down in earlier today?

[newtech]

Take pity on the Windows crowd, they don't have Bill gates to kick around anymore. As much as I prefer Apple and OS X, will admit I have matching Bill Gates and Steve Jobs dart boards I use often.

[UMHurricanes34]

Glad they're taking their time, but they seem to be taking their time with everything everyone is screaming for (this, MBP). Just get it out sometime soon and let it improve stability and such and I'll be a happy camper. I've re-installed Leopard once already, don't want to do it again. I'm staying at 10.5.0 until this update comes out because 5.1 completely trashed my iMac.

[MacUser226]

I really hope they release this soon cause they are supposed to release the new mbp at the same time.

[majordude]

I cannot wait anymore my Airport on my MBP is so bad, the internet drops every 5 minutes then I wait another 10 just to get back on.

I have the SAME !*&%#@ issue but I have not heard anything about a fix. :mad:

[andy721]

WTF? Are you serious, or truly that clueless? Has it not occurred to you that Apple deevlopers come out of the pool of 3rd party developers, and that the pool of 3rd party developers includes retirees from Apple?

Or look at it another way...next time you are on a flight remember this...the avionics software that controls the aircraft's takeoff, flight, and landing was not written by Apple, but by those poor third party software engineers.

Well thats why I don't fly :D

[majordude]

Oh, was it? Did you happen to read any other posts I put down in earlier today?

Yes, Trollzilla.

1. "I mean Apple sucks (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4898949&postcount=195) and as I see it Vista a WAY better then Leopard is right now."

2. "You are killing me (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4899322&postcount=201) wakerider017 just killing me..." (this is the ENTIRE reply.)

3. "You silly Mac fools (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4899424&postcount=205) and your 'it just works' attitude"... ("You" implies that you are not one of the group you are addressing.)

4. "My point (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4899835&postcount=213) exactly." (Entire reply.)

And then 5, this post.

TROLL!

[AidenShaw]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 6.9) VZW:SCH-i760 PPC 240x320)

This will probably be THE flawless release of an update by Apple, with no parallel in its corporate history.

Just bookmarked this post - if 10.5.2 turns out to be a train wreck, it will be fun.

Please do, I will remember you bookmarked it anyway...just don't complain about the backlash afterwards...:rolleyes:

Yes, but I've got the the safer bet.

If even one person reports a problem with 10.5.2 - then it's not "flawless" and you look like a silly fanboi. :)

[sowillo14]

Yes, Trollzilla.

1. "I mean Apple sucks (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4898949&postcount=195) and as I see it Vista a WAY better then Leopard is right now."

2. "You are killing me (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4899322&postcount=201) wakerider017 just killing me..." (this is the ENTIRE reply.)

3. "You silly Mac fools (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4899424&postcount=205) and your 'it just works' attitude"... ("You" implies that you are not one of the group you are addressing.)

4. "My point (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4899835&postcount=213) exactly." (Entire reply.)

And then 5, this post.

TROLL!


SWEEEET!

[eauh]

Yes, Trollzilla.

1. "I mean Apple sucks (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4898949&postcount=195) and as I see it Vista a WAY better then Leopard is right now."

2. "You are killing me (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4899322&postcount=201) wakerider017 just killing me..." (this is the ENTIRE reply.)

3. "You silly Mac fools (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4899424&postcount=205) and your 'it just works' attitude"... ("You" implies that you are not one of the group you are addressing.)

4. "My point (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4899835&postcount=213) exactly." (Entire reply.)

And then 5, this post.

TROLL!


...I took it as clever sarcasm, thanks eauh... :rolleyes:

I think there is only one person on this entire thread that can actually spot some dry humor when they see it.

[Lordillingworth]

I think there is only one person on this entire thread that can actually spot some dry humor when they see it.

lol

When i first read your post about how much better vista was, i thought 'what is this dudes problem' then when i read it again to check i was seeing things correctly i thought that there was no way it could be genuine.

(... i only made the switch from vista to leopard a few months ago!)

[dempson]

I hadn't seen the announcement that every fat binary in 10.5 had code for:

Legacy PPC 32-bit
Legacy PPC 64-bit (G5 only)
x86 (for the Yonah systems)
x64 (for Merom and Xeon systems)



Most of them don't. A large amount of code in Leopard has both PPC and Intel 32-bit code, but only some parts of the system also include 64-bit code (Apache is one example I've found). Some will be PPC-only or Intel-only, e.g. drivers for hardware which only exists on one processor family.


Or, maybe you should claim "6x", and split "Legacy PPC 32-bit" into G3 and G4 (AltiVec) systems and x64 into SSE4 (Penryn) and SSE3 systems.


There is almost no G3 support in Leopard at all. The oldest supported architecture for most code is "ppc7400" (G4). For example, Address Book contains G4 and i386 code. Only applications which can run on earlier systems (e.g. iTunes) are still built with G3-compatible code.

Certain applications which benefit from SSE4 might justify creating a separate code architecture, but I expect most will take advantage of it through common frameworks, or writing alternate versions of functions and calling the one optimised for SSE4 if appropriate.

There are only two Mac models released with Penryn so far (Mac Pro and MacBook Air), so I expect very little code prior to 10.5.2 will be written to take advantage of SSE4.

Look at the size of PPC vs Intel updates for 10.4: the Intel ones are generally in the order of double the size of the PPC ones. The larger updates are mainly due to containing two architectures for everything: 10.4 Intel updates include PPC code for Rosetta, 10.4 PPC updates are PPC only.

If an increasing number of files in Leopard have more than two architectures, this could account for a "more than doubling" effect, but I'd expect this to be a small proportion of the total.

[dempson]

Did anyone note that the 10.4.11 combo update came to 180mb, compared to 10.5.2's lowest estimate of 360mb?

10.4.11 Intel combo update (which includes both PPC and Intel code) is 321 MB. This is a fairer point of comparison to Leopard's universal updates.

So Tiger required half as much code to fix it in its entire life span as Leopard required after 3 months.

Not necessarily. Leopard may also contain more than two architectures: some code is compiled for 64-bit execution (G5 plus x86_64), so that would double the size of the update again for that code.

10.5.2 is being released after models which use the Penryn generation of Intel processors, which include a much enhanced SSE4 instruction set, and this may justify a lot of code being recompiled to take advantage of those instructions for added performance. This might mean some applications have another one or two architectures, or even just larger Intel code due to having both SSE3 and SSE4 variants.

One other factor which hasn't been considered here: the developer test builds of 10.5.2 might have extra debugging code turned on, or additional diagnostic information such as symbol tables. The general release won't include this, which would allow it to be substantially smaller. I don't know whether this has already been done for the current seeds.

Also worth noting that with 10.5.1, Software Update supplied a smaller variant which patched the existing files rather than replacing them. This will mean that everyone who uses Software Update will get a much more reasonably sized 10.5.2 update. The manually downloaded delta or combo updates will be much bigger.

[Daveoc64]

There are only two Mac models released with Penryn so far (Mac Pro and MacBook Air), so I expect very little code prior to 10.5.2 will be written to take advantage of SSE4.

The MacBook Air only has a Merom based processor.

[dempson]

The MacBook Air only has a Merom based processor.

Oops. Make that one model then. :o

Just emphasises the point further. There was no point in the 10.5.1 update including SSE4 code as no Macs released prior to that could use it.

The 10.5.2 update may include SSE4 code for the Mac Pro, as well as any imminent MacBook Pro and not-too-far-away iMac updates, but I think it is too soon, especially if the development tools haven't caught up yet.

SSE4 is more likely to start appearing in later 10.5.x updates (and increase the size of those updates accordingly), but it may be limited to a small subset of the files which can get a significant performance boost from SSE4.

[TheChemist]

@ AidenShaw:

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

Kudos to you!

[AidenShaw]

Most of them don't....

Thanks for the useful information, but my reply was sarcasm in response to TPALTony's claim in reply 126 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4896649&postcount=126) that there was a factor of 4 stretch due to fat binaries.

[beestigbeestje]

Give us the Update !

[madmax_2069]

never mind

[Boz22885]

When does Apple generally add updates. Have they ever done it on a Monday, Wed or Thur? I excited about Leopard 10.5.2 and I hate waiting for this update. I just want to be up-to-date and I'm getting frustrated. I really think I have a problem becuase I'm the same way with my iPhone. I'm already sick of 1.1.3 haha. SOMEONE HELPPPP ME!!!!!

[Eric S.]

When does Apple generally add updates. Have they ever done it on a Monday, Wed or Thur?!

I posted a detailed message on this earlier in this thread. There have been OS X updates released on every day of the week, including one on a Saturday and one on a Sunday. The bulk of the updates have come on Monday through Thursday, with none of those days being favored much over the others.

[Sky Blue]

I just want to be up-to-date

If you're using 10.5.1 you are up-to-date!

[mbpcron]

Any system as complex as a computer can have issues. To expect Apple to create perfectly flawless products is stupid.
My MBP has been 98% flawless, at least as far as how I use it. So for me, "It just works" rings true enough.

For those with wireless dropouts, if you're using an Airport base station, then yes, Apple should have fixed it quickly. If you're using a 3rd party wireless router like I am, then the problem could be with either end. I lucked out and am thankful.

[Wild-Bill]

When I got my 12" PB in November 2005 I was in awe of the build quality. And, being a "switcher" at that time I was also very impressed with Tiger.

Leopard did make the PB seem a bit "snappier", but I've had problems I never had with Tiger. The biggest problems are Mail and Airport. Mail sometimes has a mind of its own. The wireless is definitely a Leopard problem. I run a third-party router (D-Link DGL-4300) and I NEVER had problems connecting to my network. It is configured with WPA2, MAC address filtering, and a non-broadcast SSID. It's always been configured as such. With Leopard, upon waking from sleep my PB frequently reports that my wireless nework cannot be found, and would I like to join a different one. And every time this has happened, the PB was located no more than 12 feet from the wireless router.

Leopard somehow (at least on my PB) has trouble re-connecting to a network with a non-broadcast SSID. As an interim fix, I had to enable the SSID broadcast (after much troubleshooting), but that's unacceptable to me. I like having a three-tiered security layer on my wireless router (MAC address filter, SSID, and WPA2). On Tiger, I NEVER had a problem. From the day I brought it home and gave it the SSID and password, I never ever had trouble connecting.

Count me in among thousands who are disappointed with certain underpinnings of Leopard and hoping that 10.5.2 rises Leopard above the perceived status of "RC-2". :(

[larigo]

after reading some of the quotes I feel anoyed at some of the comments that people make about how long or not apple are taking to produce a highly detail piece of software being a patch or whole program as we are yet to find out in 10.5.2

my personal opinion, and thats all it is, if you can do better then please do so, if not stop telling one of the top IT companies on this little planet of ours that they should hurry up.

At least they keep us people informed that there is some progress going on if you happen to look at the developer site, not like many others

http://developer.apple.com/leopard/devcenter/

Mark

[pyramid6]

after reading some of the quotes I feel anoyed at some of the comments that people make about how long or not apple are taking to produce a highly detail piece of software being a patch or whole program as we are yet to find out in 10.5.2

my personal opinion, and thats all it is, if you can do better then please do so, if not stop telling one of the top IT companies on this little planet of ours that they should hurry up.

At least they keep us people informed that there is some progress going on if you happen to look at the developer site, not like many others

http://developer.apple.com/leopard/devcenter/

Mark

<Sarcasm>
I'm not seeing where they say they will release CoreImage with D300/D3 support. Also, I don't see a list of bugs they are working on.
</Sarcasm>

I'm sorry if we complain, but Apple wouldn't let us complain this much on their web site. Also, some of us bought into Apple as a vendor of choice. Apple hasn't always lived up to the potential that it could. We feel cheated by the iPhone/iTouch/MBA, not that they aren't great products. We just feel they took resources from our problems, after they took our money. From a professional stand point, Apple still needs some work. Releasing 10.5.2 would be a good start.

P6

[Sky Blue]

When I got my 12" PB in November 2005 I was in awe of the build quality. And, being a "switcher" at that time I was also very impressed with Tiger.

Leopard did make the PB seem a bit "snappier", but I've had problems I never had with Tiger.


But Tiger was already at 10.4.3 when you bought your PowerBook.
Some people started using Tiger when it had already been out for a while and gone through a number of updates, and they're now using an early version of Leopard and expecting the same stability.

[BRLawyer]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 6.9) VZW:SCH-i760 PPC 240x320)



Yes, but I've got the the safer bet.

If even one person reports a problem with 10.5.2 - then it's not "flawless" and you look like a silly fanboi. :)

Sure, but whiny anti-fanboy complaints don't count, ok? ;)

[gamesetmatch]

I'm wondering if there will be another build before being released to the general public, bearing in mind that Apple states the absence of "known issues" with the last builds seeded to developers.

[xUKHCx]

I'm wondering if there will be another build before being released to the general public, bearing in mind that Apple states the absence of "known issues" with the last builds seeded to developers.

With 9 areas of testing at the moment I think there will be another 2 if not 3 builds before going public.

At the earliest I would expect it late next week but more likely the following week. But then again I am rubbish with predictions.

[TheSpaz]

Anyone know if they've improved spotlight at all? I HATE the new Spotlight except for it's fastness.

[Wild-Bill]

But Tiger was already at 10.4.3 when you bought your PowerBook.
Some people started using Tiger when it had already been out for a while and gone through a number of updates, and they're now using an early version of Leopard and expecting the same stability.

True, it was at 10.4.3 and it was the "last" revision 12" Powerbook. However, through 10.4.3 - 10.4.11 I never had one single issue with the wireless connection.

With Leopard, wireless performance (or connection ability in my example) regressed. One would not expect a regression in this area, especially if the point of Leopard was to "improve upon Tiger".

Let's not forget that, along with the Leopard wireless problem, 10.5.0 shipped with the firewall in the "off" position, and in my and MANY others' opinion, severely downgraded the firewall from what was in Tiger.

But I do acknowledge your point that my purchased PB was ahead of the game with 10.4.3.

Here's hoping that 10.5.2 shows a marked improvement in Leopard. With the six extra months they had to finish Leopard (stupid iPhone), let's hope Leopard receives a well-deserved course-correction.

[adm58]

QuickTime 7.4.1 update out.

"Addresses issues."

[mbpcron]

One thing has become clear from Apple forums: Apple product users expect good products, and that's a good thing !

Windows users feel like "Can I have some more soup, please sir?"
:D

[Sky Blue]

QuickTime 7.4.1 update out.

"Addresses issues."


I hope this fixes After Effects issues.

[asdavis10]

Has anyone thought that all these minor updates that have been coming out in the last few weeks is part of the 10.5.2 update? Maybe a way to give us some of the working parts now as well as reduce the size of the bulk of 10.5.2

[skyrider007]

Has anyone thought that all these minor updates that have been coming out in the last few weeks is part of the 10.5.2 update? Maybe a way to give us some of the working parts now as well as reduce the size of the bulk of 10.5.2

nah don't think so, those updates were application specific.

[Daveoc64]

after reading some of the quotes I feel anoyed at some of the comments that people make about how long or not apple are taking to produce a highly detail piece of software being a patch or whole program as we are yet to find out in 10.5.2

my personal opinion, and thats all it is, if you can do better then please do so, if not stop telling one of the top IT companies on this little planet of ours that they should hurry up.

... but it's ok for Apple to criticise Microsoft about releasing things slowly and not fixing issues.

I can't make an OS, but Apple claims to have "The Most Advanced Operating System in the world" and backs that up with near-childish jibes at other companies.

As such, they deserve to have a critical eye on them from their customers.

If I claimed to have such a wonderful product and had the sun shining out of my a** I'd work extra hard to prove that.

[iBug2]

Apple recently seeded Safari 3.1 for 10.5.2. Contains some improvements and bugfixes.

[kabunaru]

Since Apple has been releasing updates like every day this week, is this a good sign that Mac OS 10.5.2 will be released sometime later this week?

[Sky Blue]

Apple recently seeded Safari 3.1 for 10.5.2. Contains some improvements and bugfixes.

Recently, as in the last couple of days? Was it a separate download?

[DaBrain]

... .

If I claimed to have such a wonderful product and had the sun shining out of my a** I'd work extra hard to prove that.

Or you could insert some D Cells to keep that light shinning!;)

[darklights85]

can someone post a link of all the key issues that will be addressed in this update?

[Peace]

can someone post a link of all the key issues that will be addressed in this update?



"All" the key issues being addressed is known only to Apple and Dev seeds.

At least that's the way it's supposed to be.:)

[beestigbeestje]

can someone post a link of all the key issues that will be addressed in this update?

During the MacWorld SF, Apple has quietly seeded to developers a new build of the Mac OS X Leopard 10.5.2 update numbered 9C16. The seed-note lists an endless list of enhancements in almost any part of the system.
According to the seed-note, the update "focuses" (if we may call this focusing) on, Active Directory/Directory Services, AirPort, AppKit, Application, Firewall, Audio, Automator, Back To My Mac, Chinese Input Methods, CoreData, CoreFoundation, Dashboard Widgets, Data Detectors, Directory Services, Dock, Finder, Foundation, Grammar Checking, Graphics Drivers, High Level Toolbox, iCal, iChat, iDisk, Keyboard Layouts, Mail, Networking, Parental Controls, Podcast Producer, Printing/CUPS, Quick Look, Rosetta, Safari, SMB, Spotlight, SQLite, Terminal, Time Machine, X11.
New issues fixed in this seed, as listed on the seed-note, are the following:
- Border now draws correctly when 2-up printing
- Preview Image and scrolling horizontally with keys
- CFNetwork and Proxy error messages
- NTFS Volume and System UIServer fix
- DVDPlayback and second display hookup
- Preview PDF and Mail Document fix
- Resolved tabbing issue with PDFView
- Fixed issue with Time Machine Preferences
- Icon Services and file attachments
- Time Machine and resumed backups
- Images captured in tethered mode fixed
- CoreAudio Toolbox and EstAudioFileRead
- ImageCapture and file creation
- SharedFileLists and SMB guest issue resolved
- BackupCore and backup preparation
- Japanese localization and CUPS
- NSTextView and scroll bar thumb scrolling direction
- SMB File Server and name resolving order
- CFNetwork and Windows proxy ISA server fix
- Fixed deinterlacing issue with DVDPlayback
In previous seeds, the following fixes had been made:
- CoreData Framework and NSFetchRequest
- AD DS Plug-in
- HLTB Menus
- Memory leak with Rosetta
- X11.app and customized menu commands
- AirPort shared printer fix
- Disk Utility and FAT32
- HFS and allocated space
- Fix to Process Manager and VISE
- NSNavigationServices and NavServices from a Cocoa application fix
- Reprinting Hold jobs and CUPS
- Fixed issue with Text Input Sources
- Mail Message Body Display issues with certain font types
- DAVKit and iCal redirects
- Calendar Store Framework and CalRecurrenceRule fix
- CoreText Font and PUA unicode characters now work correctly
- rsh jobs no longer waits for backgrounded processes to complete
- Fixed issue HLTB and Finder
- Fixed issue with AppleEvents
- ImageIO preiew issue in Finder fixed
- HIClock now accepts user entries
- smb now handles "%" in password field
- Fixed issue with CUPS and reverse page ordering
- NSTableView and special keys now works correctly
- AF_UNSPEC& null address Networking issue fixed
- Resolved issue with Xquartz and CPU cycles
- Fixed exception issue with KeyChainAccess
- Quartz Composer no longer brings up an error when saving a composition
- Fixed ScreenCapture issue
- Addressed issue with Web Content Filter and Parental Controls
- CUPS no longer prints a blank page when 2-up print setting is selected
- CoreData Framework fix to XML data creation
- Fixed Quick Look plug-in loading issue
- Mail to iCal Data Detectors now work correctly
- Fixed issue with Finder and column view
- Core Audio fix now allows empty m4a files to behave correctly
- Fixed horizontal scroll issue with Finder and Spotlight
- Fixed iChat audio issue with fast user switching
- Core Data apps now save correctly when no document changes have been made
- Fixed issue with Firewall customization settings
- Fixed Active Directory binding issue
- NSTable View -selectAll setting now works correctly
- HLTB Dyhmanic Menus now behave correctly
- Resolved issue with HIImageView
- Fixed issue with ATSCreateFontQueryRunLoopSource
- Mail now treats flags correctly
- Fixed day selection issue with NSDatePicker
- Invalid RR queries problem now resolved
- Input issue with NSTokenField fixed
- Archive & Install problem with Sync Services Translators resolved
- Fixed Spotlight issue with arithmetic expressions
- Fixed problem with Podcast Producer and Wiki running via SSL
- HLTB ApplyTHemeBackground memory leak fixed
- Fixed Numbers printing issue with CoreGraphics
- Fixed permissions problem with NFS
- NSManagedObject now implements dictionaryWithValuesForKeys correctly
- Fixed memory leak in CoreData Framework
- Bitmap-only fonts now work correctly in QuickDraw
- Issue with MusicSequenceSaveSMFData fixed
- SMB File Server reboot issue resolved
- Fixed issue where running a MAC application from a NTFS volume may not work correctly
- NSXMLNSNumberTransformerName now handles NSDecimalNumbers correctly
- Addressed issue with ToDo recurrences and iCal Synchronization
- Issue with NSNavigationServices and kNavCBTerminate resolved
- Fix to AppKit and popup menus
- CTFontCreateCopyWithFamily() now works correctly
- Fixed issue with Tamil IM
- Networking issue with records over sockets fixed
- HIShape symbols in HLTB fixed
- Fixed window flicker issue with PrintManager
- NSArrayController and Lazy Fetching issue resolved
- Save PDF to Web Receipts Folder now works correctly when there's a / in the title
- Fixed issue with "Find Next" and the spelling panel
- Issue with NSTreeController resolved
- Resolved issue with local SOCKS proxy and iChat
- Logged iChats now open quickly
This clearly represents by far the most significant revision update Apple has ever made on any of its operating systems with nearly 40 Applications involved and 100 bugs fixed. The only bad news is that the update weights as much as, hold your breathe... over 400MB, a record size which could even grow further in the final build.
Two known issues only are listed, they are related to Applications default locations updating and hangs during PDF scrolling on certain machines. This is a sign that the update shouldn't take long to arrive through our Software Update utility.

(got this from mac-bb.org)

[KurtangleTN]

I am running 1.5.1 and very happy with it, I have none of the issues a lot of you are reporting. However I am using a powerbook G4 and not Intel so that may have a lot to do with it. Outside of TimeMachine changes/fixes I am very Happy with Leopard and my network is very stable.

I agree, little problems here with my C2D iMac, so not sure what others problem is.

I'd like Safari to be a bit more conservative with memory use, but other then that, no problems here.

Oh edit, also Windows shared computers seem to pop in and out of the shared portion of the Finder (despite it being on 24/7)

[zeuszen]

whould'nt downloading the update from apple's site rather than software
update sort that out as you wont have the SUID warnings in the first place

It might, but I'd rather update once than twice (or more if I encounter problems). I also don't feel it would be right of Apple to expect users to jump through hoops to arrive at a decent OS experience. An 'inclusive' update would, IMHO, a more elegant way to proceed.

[Neil321]

It might, but I'd rather update once than twice (or more if I encounter problems). I also don't feel it would be right of Apple to expect users to jump through hoops to arrive at a decent OS experience. An 'inclusive' update would, IMHO, a more elegant way to proceed.

Yes i understand what your saying,but how can you justify downloading from
apples site jumping through hoops.I download all my major updates this way
as you get the full update.It takes two clicks to download from software
update the same as going to apples site so whats the difference?

[AidenShaw]

Sure, but whiny anti-fanboy complaints don't count, ok? ;)

Agreed. ;)

And, single reports of problems don't count - that could be a system that was messed up before the update.

At least three reports or the problem showing up as a warning on http://www.macfixit.com (or someplace similar).

[zeuszen]

... how can you justify downloading from
apples site jumping through hoops.I download all my major updates this way
as you get the full update.It takes two clicks to download from software
update the same as going to apples site so whats the difference?

I'd expect -and I'm probably not alone in this- to perform a single update and not have to repeat it, to achieve what it should have achieved in the first place. The 'difference' is that the onus to supply users (customers) with the best experience possible is up to Apple.

It should not be up to me, as a customer, to find ways to 'patch' what should have been part and parcel of current OS updates. I would, perhaps, not expect Microsoft to spare us the 'hooping'. I do, however, expect this from Apple, and this could be easily addressed within 10.5.2.

[Neil321]

I'd expect -and I'm probably not alone in this- to perform a single update and not have to repeat it, to achieve what it should have achieved in the first place. The 'difference' is that the onus to supply users (customers) with the best experience possible is up to Apple.

It should not be up to me, as a customer, to find ways to 'patch' what should have been part and parcel of current OS updates. I would, perhaps, not expect Microsoft to spare us the 'hooping'. I do, however, expect this from Apple, and this could be easily addressed within 10.5.2.

Why do you have to repeat it,if you knew downloading from the apple site
was the best option to begin with,im sure im not the only who knows this?
Your to supply customers/users bit is a load of tosh is it because you like
to see the software update globe with the two arrows around it appear on
your dock?.Also how is microsoft hooping again you have two choices
either download from there silly software update thing that pops up every
10min or go to there download site

I to hope 10.5.2 resolves this issue,but if you do a search yourll find a thread stating
the reason why apple didnt release the full update threw its software updater or
go to apples site theres a bit about ignoring SUID warnings and reasons given

[iMac-Fan]

It always bothers me when people talk about boot time... who the heck cares? Oooooooh 3 seconds FASTER now! Yay, I need more RAM for boot time, I gotta boot faster and faster! Come on, give me a break. I never even shut down my Mac, so I guess my boot time is 0 seconds. I'll leave my computer on for months at a time without any problems... also, I only boot when a System Update forces me to.

You missed the whole point, that was just an example. Boot times, multi-tasking, etc.

And for me boot times make a huge difference since I live in farm country where power failures are frequent just from cows scratching their butts on poles with the power lines strung across. I like to play online games often when I get bored, I have the choice of waiting 3-4 minutes for my GF's Windoze box to start or my iMac. Both are rated the same speed and have have the same ram.

But her Compaq falls short on everything. For example, I opened an 800 MB scanned image in TIFF format on her machine and mine with PhotoShop CS.

Her Windoze box was still going 45 minutes later, and my iMac had it open in 3 seconds flat. We hit the reset button on her Compaq and just gave up.

Another simple example of raw power and speed. when I bought a Compaq System Pro 66 (back in the stone ages) for roughly $12,000 with all the best bells and whistles, I thought I was getting the fastest machine at the time. Lo and behold, one of my co-workers was configuring a new Mac ][fx rated at only 33 Mhz. For a joke we decided to run Sim City on both at the fastest speed.

Guess which machine won, and why I never bought another Windoze box again? I'll never believe in the lame hype the Pc side uses to sucker people in ever again. That year I bought a new ][fx and have stuck with Mac's ever since and for only $4,800 fully loaded!!

Anyways, way off topic, so back onto topic :)

Can't wait for 10.5.2, I can finally upgrade my nieces MBP from tiger finally. She's been waiting patiently for Leo to stabilize enough to switch up. I already have and love it! :)

[zeuszen]

...I to hope 10.5.2 resolves this issue,but if you do a search yourll find a thread stating
the reason why apple didnt release the full update threw its software updater or
go to apples site theres a bit about ignoring SUID warnings and reasons given

I'm aware of the options and circumstances surrounding the SUID/permissions issues, and I can see we (you and I) have established our perspective differences clearly enough (something I can live with).

[Neil321]

I'm aware of the options and circumstances surrounding the SUID/permissions issues, and I can see we (you and I) have established our perspective differences clearly enough (something I can live with).

I can live with it also as different opinions only causes bad karma,peace

[AidenShaw]

For example, I opened an 800 MB scanned image in TIFF format on her machine and mine with PhotoShop CS.

Her Windoze box was still going 45 minutes later, and my iMac had it open in 3 seconds flat.

So, the machines had the same speed CPU, the same amount of RAM, the same speed and size disks with the same Photoshop work space configuration and the same version/rev of Photoshop? Neither machine had opened the file before, so there was no caching of data or thumbnails or displays? You were comparing OSX to XP or Vista?

It sounds to me like the Windows system ran out of memory - plain and simple. Using the pagefile as RAM is far slower than using real memory.

It also sounds to me like your Imac didn't read the file - since you'd need a multi-pathed Fibre Channel array with about 8 spindles in a RAID-0 to read 800 MB in 3 seconds. :eek:

I don't believe that your anecdote about TIFF speed is relevant to anything at all.

And, congratulations on your first 2 posts to MacRumors. :rolleyes: