Mac OS X 10.5.2 Not Quite Ready Yet (9C30 Seeded) [Archive]

MacRumors

Feb 4, 2008, 07:33 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has fixed some issues with Time Machine and AFP X Client and bumped Mac OS X 10.5.2 to build 9C30. The latest Mac OS X seed was released to developer's today, only four days behind 9C27 (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/31/apple-continuing-work-on-mac-os-x-10-5-2-9c27-seeded/). There are "no known issues" in this latest seed.

It seems clear that Apple is putting the finishing touches on Mac OS X, with accelerated developer releases in the hopes of reaching the final build. Due to the continuous bug fixing process, it impossible to predict the release date of the next update to Mac OS X. Historically, however, Apple has released the final build as quickly as one day following the last developer seed (9B18 seeded (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/14/mac-os-x-10-5-1-update-finalized/), 9B18 released (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/15/apple-releases-first-leopard-update-10-5-1/)).

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/04/mac-os-x-10-5-2-not-quite-ready-yet-9c30-seeded/)

Eidorian

Feb 4, 2008, 07:34 PM

Still not ready for public consumption? We've know about it for weeks Apple. Push it via Software Update and press some discs!

kabunaru

Feb 4, 2008, 07:34 PM

I can see it being released tomorrow or Friday.

bjett92

Feb 4, 2008, 07:34 PM

I'm getting impatient.

This update better be perfect, they've spend a lot of time on it.

lord patton

Feb 4, 2008, 07:35 PM

all things considered, I'd rather they take their time... and I think they are. :D

chappy87

Feb 4, 2008, 07:35 PM

We're nearly there!

niemo810

Feb 4, 2008, 07:35 PM

I'm just glad they aren't rushing it.

desistyle

Feb 4, 2008, 07:37 PM

tomorrow would be sweet. I hope the leopard graphics update speeds up the gma x3100's performance.

DJAKO

Feb 4, 2008, 07:37 PM

Haven't followed this update too much? What are going to be the big fixes?

Diode

Feb 4, 2008, 07:37 PM

Anyone know if the use of air disks for a time machine backup is included?

I know it hasn't been in the past.

noodle654

Feb 4, 2008, 07:38 PM

slidingjon

Feb 4, 2008, 07:42 PM

I echo the comments of others: as excited as I am to have 10.5.2, I will sacrifice another week or two for stability.

HyperZboy

Feb 4, 2008, 07:42 PM

Stridder44

Feb 4, 2008, 07:45 PM

mwp98223

Feb 4, 2008, 07:46 PM

Please......let me see other computers connected to my network.......

FJ218700

Feb 4, 2008, 07:47 PM

makes you wonder how much is "broken" in 5.1 that we don't know about,

either that, or the MBP's being released tomorrow require 5.2 :rolleyes:

MBX

Feb 4, 2008, 07:48 PM

Who bets on tomorrow for the final release of the update?

Xtremehkr

Feb 4, 2008, 07:48 PM

I don't mind that they are taking their time, I imagine that updates are going to come along more slowly for a while. I am sure they are working on a future version of OSX, but I don't really know where else they can take it right now. I am sure Apple has some ideas, and are working on them, but it seems like the hardware needs to advance some more so that it meets the needs Apple software seems to be moving in as far as tying a wide variety of consumer electronics together.

This time can be used to get very creative, or to make the software very secure, or both.

andy721

Feb 4, 2008, 07:50 PM

If time machine which I think is a pointless application is slowing the update down also slowing my and other people orders of the mac pros then they have an issue they need to solve before everyone gets a free 180 days SAC promo from apple finance which I got yay.
So I have additional 180 days no interest to pay for the mac pro with 20inch monitor. I wanted to upgrade to the 30 but I don't think they would do that.

Anyways here is the email they sent me if anyone wants to give it a try.

"I have been informed by the Apple Finance Department that since the order was placed before the end date of the promo, you will receive the 180 days SAC promo.
Thank you

Mike Phillips"

fekimoki

Feb 4, 2008, 07:50 PM

Is it tomorrow?

kaiwai

Feb 4, 2008, 07:53 PM

Who bets on tomorrow for the final release of the update?

I doubt it; I have a feeling that they're really going to flog this one out - because I also have a feeling that they'll be reallocating alot of the resources to a new project, and thus, this will be an update which will have alot of distance between it and the next one.

Maybe this Friday, but I don't hold out much hope. I'd love Apple though, to go through Mozilla bugzilla and Adium Bugzilla and finally fix all those damn bugs which cause developers such grief.

newtech

Feb 4, 2008, 07:54 PM

10.5.2 has more seeds than a pumpkin:eek: I guess they really are working it all the way to 9C40, what bad karma ( so help me if this PPC related BS I'll scream ).

FJ218700

Feb 4, 2008, 07:54 PM

asdavis10

Feb 4, 2008, 07:55 PM

Yet another step closer to what all of us are waiting for but I'll be patient. Better to wait a (potentially) a few more days or weeks to get what may be the most important update Leopard will see. Patience is a virtue people.

MacUser226

Feb 4, 2008, 07:55 PM

Is it possible that if they release the 10.5.2 update tomorrow that they will also release the new MBP's?

Spike Lightfoot

Feb 4, 2008, 07:56 PM

...time machine which I think is a pointless application...

My two cents: TM was one of my two reasons for upgrading to Leopard. Within limits, this is one of the best applications Apple has ever come up with. No, it doesn't do yet everything that I want it to do, but it's already proven very useful to me and many, many others.

djejrejk

Feb 4, 2008, 07:56 PM

Wed... I can't wait- only took them 3 months. I'm sure that they dedicated a ton of work hours to it and Im glad that they didn't hurt themselves in the process.

BWhaler

Feb 4, 2008, 07:57 PM

I'm just glad they aren't rushing it.

Me too.

Sure, I feel the pain of Leopard like everyone else around here. Leopard symbolizes what is wrong with Apple nowadays: poor quality and trying to do to much.

Actually, add: "forgot what made them great" to the list.

But, to be positive, I am glad Apple is taking the time to fix Leopard properly. Let's just hope 10.5.2 is the operating system we should have received in the first place.

dagamer34

Feb 4, 2008, 07:57 PM

happydude

Feb 4, 2008, 07:59 PM

Oh, Common!!!

justflie

Feb 4, 2008, 08:00 PM

*taps foot impatiently*

Well, if they iron a bunch of bugs out with this release, that's fine with me. I have seeing a release brick (or really screw) up people's machines because:

1. That is never any fun for the person it happens to.

2. The rest of us have to listen to their (righteous?) complaints for a few weeks.

That being said, don't marry the update, send it out to us please! :apple:

GimmeSlack12

Feb 4, 2008, 08:03 PM

I'm getting impatient.

This update better be perfect, they've spend a lot of time on it.

This is the exact sort of thing that makes me wish 10.5.2 wasn't getting any coverage. Cause I know we're going to endure a 'not-in-our-eye' perfect update to OS X.

Its a minor update everyone so don't get your hopes up thinking a revolution is about to happen in Leopard. Keep expectations loooooow.

Quillz

Feb 4, 2008, 08:04 PM

Like I've said before, I've not had any actual issues with Leopard of 10.5.1 in general, but I'm looking forward to .2 just for the new features, including the fixes to Stacks and the menu bar.

comictimes

Feb 4, 2008, 08:05 PM

I love that they're making sure it's perfect and all but I would REALLY like for this to come out sooner rather than later... not having hierarchical abilities in the dock is irritating and my wireless keeps getting dropped, which is frustrating as hell.

andy721

Feb 4, 2008, 08:07 PM

you lost me, how does time machine relate to getting a 20 inch ACD instead of a 30 inch and not really being able to afford either?

It was relating to an issue they are having with the update which links to the mac pros releasing when the update is released.

This is the exact sort of thing that makes me wish 10.5.2 wasn't getting any coverage. Cause I know we're going to endure a 'not-in-our-eye' perfect update to OS X.

Its a minor update everyone so don't get your hopes up thinking a revolution is about to happen in Leopard. Keep expectations loooooow.

Apple doesn't make perfect updates, they never will. If it was perfect why do more updates? Only thing they need to work on is adding new features if there was a perfect update. Better be release soon.:mad:

CWallace

Feb 4, 2008, 08:12 PM

I doubt 24 hours is enough time for it to be tested (unless all Apple wants to know is will it install), so it could likely be this Thursday or next Monday. I would guess Apple would prefer not to roll it on a Friday due to reduced tech support staffing during the weekend.

writeous

Feb 4, 2008, 08:20 PM

dont people know that you can change the menu bar and dock using Onyx? Anyway, I have real gripes with Leopard. My MBP takes 5 - 10 mins to wake from sleep if airport is turned on, wifi is unusable on unsecure networks and drops about 5 times a day on secure ones. If those things get fixed, then I will never complain about Leopard again.

Amdahl

Feb 4, 2008, 08:20 PM

So it's pretty much certain that 10.5.2 will be shipped with new Macs? In that case, I can see why they wouldn't want to release it without some serious QA being done. 10.5.1 was probably rushed out the door because of the showstopper Finder bug that was never caught, I hopefully we'll see some of the stability Tiger had returning.

10.5.0 seems to have a few bad bugs: the Finder, Mail, Time Machine, and the Login & Keychain bug. No surprise that 10.5.1 was out quickly, and DVDs were quickly reprinted.

andy721

Feb 4, 2008, 08:21 PM

dont people know that you can change the menu bar using onyx?

I hate anything 3rd party. They are done by poor software engineers.

John01021988

Feb 4, 2008, 08:23 PM

considering that tomorrow is tuesday, hopefully Apple releases the update by friday this week.

kbmb

Feb 4, 2008, 08:24 PM

Could be worse...they could be Microsoft.

XP was released 10/2001
SP1 was released 9/2002
SP2 was released 8/2004

I'd say we are lucky with Apple's schedule....months instead of years!

-Kevin

iCeFuSiOn

Feb 4, 2008, 08:24 PM

I hate anything 3rd party. They are done by poor software engineers.
I'm pretty sure that Onyx just applies the infamous "sudo defaults write /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.WindowServer 'EnvironmentVariables' -dict 'CI_NO_BACKGROUND_IMAGE' 0.62" hack to make the menu bar opaque so it's not exactly a 3rd party hack.

Virgil-TB2

Feb 4, 2008, 08:24 PM

The connection between the release of the MacPro and the 10.5.2 update is not even necessarily a real thing. It's a supposition among some on this forum that the two might be tied together. IMO it's just as likely that the MacPro ship date has nothing to do with the update.

People seem to be "raging out" over the fact that hierarchical menus are broken for stacks? WTF!?? :confused: There are other issues that are much more important that affect people that have to do real work with 10.5.1, but you don't see most of them complaining.

The loudest complaints seem to be from people upset over minor, piffling, stupid issues.

dal20402

Feb 4, 2008, 08:28 PM

FJ218700

Feb 4, 2008, 08:28 PM

I hate anything 3rd party. They are done by poor software engineers.

innovation has to start somewhere.

Burgess07

Feb 4, 2008, 08:29 PM

Apple is just stalling because they know how pissed people are gonna be when they find out they are being charged for the update.:p

Beric

Feb 4, 2008, 08:32 PM

TM, far from being "useless," is something PCs have needed for years. No one backs up. Everyone should back up. TM is a very innovative way of making individual backups brain-dead easy, and will get even better when ZFS finally arrives in earnest.

QFT. Time Machine is like the best App ever. Apple moved from behind Windows to ahead it on this one. I wouldn't mind a few more features in TM (like backup frequency and the like).

But what I really want fixed is the wireless dropout on notebooks. Already, Apple! My MB needs you!

incoherent1

Feb 4, 2008, 08:32 PM

Its a minor update everyone so don't get your hopes up thinking a revolution is about to happen in Leopard. Keep expectations loooooow

I completely agree, but with one exception. I for one have pretty low expectations - things like no more wifi dropouts and making Safari not crash a couple times a day. I also had 10.5.1 meltdown a machine (it was replaced by Apple under warranty, but still), but I'll consider that a fluke. But it doesn't take 3 months to fix wifi drop outs and make Safari stable (or at least I hope not, less Apple's programmers have really lost their marbles).

I think they should've gone for more, smaller updates in this case. As it is, I can't work on my computer reliably. I'm staying at work longer to use Vista!

They've made the mistake of not quickly solving major problems that affect practically all users everyday. Not that things like Remote Drive on MBA or list view in stacks aren't important, but they shouldn't hold up fixes for glaring problems to address them.

CWallace

Feb 4, 2008, 08:32 PM

HLdan

Feb 4, 2008, 08:38 PM

I'm getting impatient.

This update better be perfect, they've spend a lot of time on it.

Then don't be impatient. I for one would prefer for Apple to take several more weeks if they need to so it can be perfected so we won't be drooling for 10.5.3.

bacon

Feb 4, 2008, 08:39 PM

And here comes SP3 in 3/2008, right on schedule. :p

I was thinking if it comes out 7/2008, it'd be perfect!

XP was released 10/2001
SP1 was released 9/2002
SP2 was released 8/2004
SP3 was released 7/2008

:)

compuguy1088

Feb 4, 2008, 08:41 PM

I was thinking if it comes out 7/2008, it'd be perfect!

XP was released 10/2001
SP1 was released 9/2002
SP2 was released 8/2004
Vista SP1 released 7/2008

:)

lol! It's a countdown to something.....

Eidorian

Feb 4, 2008, 08:42 PM

And here comes SP3 in 3/2008, right on schedule. :pSome of us are waiting for SP3 you know. ;)

The loudest complaints seem to be from people upset over minor, piffling, stupid issues.I'll try to somewhat redeem this thread then.

1. No CUPS protocol network browsing enabled by default. It was enabled in Tiger. Edit /etc/cups/cups.conf on my OS X?
2. Flaky SMB connectivity from client to and server.
3. Flaky ssh, SMB,and VNC connectivity between OS X and Windows on client version
4. Time Machine failures due to bad or incomplete Spotlight indexes that require a restart

innovation has to start somewhere.I have to agree. I know a lot of tiny programs and programmers that I can't live without. I've even paid for their software. :D

roland.g

Feb 4, 2008, 08:43 PM

I would actually prefer to see the AppleTV update first, while the 10.5.2 update will hopefully bring better stability, etc., right now Nested Folders is the only function I am looking forward to - and I currently get that with Quay and Hierarchical Dock. I would love to see Stack of Apps on the left side of the dock for categorizing.grouping applications, but it seems that was in the previews and left out of the final build, so it is doubtful that will make it to 10.5 at any point. We can always hope.

Diode

Feb 4, 2008, 08:44 PM

But what I really want fixed is the wireless dropout on notebooks. Already, Apple! My MB needs you!

What drop outs ? My santa rosa macbook is just fine with wireless.

MarlboroLite

Feb 4, 2008, 08:47 PM

What drop outs ? My santa rosa macbook is just fine with wireless.

Yes I wonder what this issue is. I also have an SR Macbook and have had zero wireless problems....:confused:

iCeFuSiOn

Feb 4, 2008, 08:49 PM

Then don't be impatient. I for one would prefer for Apple to take several more weeks if they need to so it can be perfected so we won't be drooling for 10.5.3.I agree, I don't care if it takes another month for 10.5.2 to come out, I'm not having any problems with 10.5.1 and I think it's a pretty good operating system.

Sandpiper

Feb 4, 2008, 08:49 PM

I was thinking if it comes out 7/2008, it'd be perfect!

XP was released 10/2001
SP1 was released 9/2002
SP2 was released 8/2004
SP3 was released 7/2008

:)

wow, then SP4 is scheduled for 6/2016 :rolleyes:

Matthew Yohe

Feb 4, 2008, 08:49 PM

For general use, 10.5.1 is great.

Currently I'm having to wait on .2 to finally fix the Active Directory Plug-in which has been broken since day one. Can't move any machines in the office over to the domain, then I can't install Leopard.

akac

Feb 4, 2008, 08:51 PM

I would actually prefer to see the AppleTV update first, while the 10.5.2 update will hopefully bring better stability, etc., .

There is a good chance that the AppleTV update is based on 10.5.2...

Apple Corps

Feb 4, 2008, 08:51 PM

Our AEBS WDS works very nicely with 10.5.1 - we have had a couple of cases where internet connection failed upon waking from sleep. Turning airport off and then on from the icon reestablishes the connection in about 6 seconds total time.

Shervin

Feb 4, 2008, 08:53 PM

this is taking longgggggg
come on apple...

kabunaru

Feb 4, 2008, 08:54 PM

Apple is just stalling because they know how pissed people are gonna be when they find out they are being charged for the update.:p

I am afraid Apple might charge for this update. Would Apple even do this? Charge for a software update? :confused: :(

yetanotherdave

Feb 4, 2008, 08:54 PM

Yes I wonder what this issue is. I also have an SR Macbook and have had zero wireless problems....:confused:

You're lucky. I had zero issues till 4 days ago, 3 kernel panics in 3 days and I knew what the wireless issues everyones talking about are!
(I'm lucky that the extent that I"ve been affected though, some people have had it much worse)
Basically the airport driver crashes under continuous sustained load, eg bittorrent clients. Takes the whole computer down with it.

I am afraid Apple might charge for this update. Would Apple even do this? Charge for a software update? :confused: :(

Not for bug fixes, which is what this'll be.

justflie

Feb 4, 2008, 08:56 PM

I am afraid Apple might charge for this update. Would Apple even do this? Charge for a software update? :confused: :(

Turn on your sarcasm meter. He put that smiley face there for a reason, poking fun at the $20 iPod Touch Apps upgrade fee.

Matthew Yohe

Feb 4, 2008, 08:56 PM

I am afraid Apple might charge for this update. Would Apple even do this? Charge for a software update? :confused: :(

*sigh*

No.

harmonium

Feb 4, 2008, 08:57 PM

Yes I wonder what this issue is. I also have an SR Macbook and have had zero wireless problems....:confused:

Your MacBook shipped with Leopard. ;)

Beric

Feb 4, 2008, 09:02 PM

What drop outs ? My santa rosa macbook is just fine with wireless.

I got my MB in september 2007. So it's not SR.

Anyway, the wireless signal will drop in and out constantly, making the internet unusable. Sometimes simply turning on and off your airport connection will solve the problem, other times it takes a reboot. And then it's fine. It's been extensively commented on at the Apple discussion forums. Many people are talking about it. But not everyone has it.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1008143&tstart=15

gnasher729

Feb 4, 2008, 09:05 PM

Anyone know if the use of air disks for a time machine backup is included?

If anyone knows they are under NDA. Actually, if anyone knows about this release they are under NDA.

jakebarnes

Feb 4, 2008, 09:07 PM

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

Apple is just stalling because they know how pissed people are gonna be when they find out they are being charged for the update.:p

I am afraid Apple might charge for this update. Would Apple even do this? Charge for a software update? :confused: :(

no.

DocSmitty

Feb 4, 2008, 09:08 PM

Could be worse...

Vista SP1 is done, and not available until March so the new systems ship with it the same time it's available to upgrade with.

Talk about lame... worse than SP3 even!

yayaba

Feb 4, 2008, 09:12 PM

I got my MB in september 2007. So it's not SR.

Anyway, the wireless signal will drop in and out constantly, making the internet unusable. Sometimes simply turning on and off your airport connection will solve the problem, other times it takes a reboot. And then it's fine. It's been extensively commented on at the Apple discussion forums. Many people are talking about it. But not everyone has it.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1008143&tstart=15

I got my MB in February, 2007 and I don't have wifi drop out issues. I do have issues with my Airport receiving "Self assigned IP" but I think it's a problem with the router I have as I don't have that problem in any other hotspot.

10.5.1 is pretty stable and works great for me. 10.5.2 can take as long as they want as far as I'm concerned.

ltldrummerboy

Feb 4, 2008, 09:14 PM

This is nearly a joke. I'm a little tired of kernel panics from inserting a DVD. Hurry up already. OK, now that I'm done whining, I can say that apart from that, 10.5.1 has been nothing but a joy.

n8c

Feb 4, 2008, 09:14 PM

Ugh. If the "imminent" MBP release is waiting for 10.5.2, then I guess this means at least another week of waiting for MBP updates. How depressing.

TheSpaz

Feb 4, 2008, 09:15 PM

Damn, another 15 page thread is on the way!

Pooba

Feb 4, 2008, 09:16 PM

10.5.2 better be polished.

darthraige

Feb 4, 2008, 09:22 PM

I guess there is nothing to worry about. It's obviously gonna get released this month. :D

BoyBach

Feb 4, 2008, 09:23 PM

Does anybody else think that the Leopard retail boxes are going to have a little green sticker on them reading "10.5.2" pretty soon?

macnerd77

Feb 4, 2008, 09:24 PM

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

Does anybody else think that the Leopard retail boxes are going to have a little green sticker on them reading "10.5.2" pretty soon?

LOL now that was funny

madmax_2069

Feb 4, 2008, 09:24 PM

I don't mind waiting if it fixes some all of the most glaring problems with 10.5:

1) Powermac G4 boot delay with various Nvidia graphics cards.

2) All of the various Nvidia and ATI graphics card artifacting issues, including the all of the problems with newer games like WoW, Doom 3, Prey, etc.

3) Glaring omission of hierarchical menus in the dock.

4) And the various other minor stability issues, wifi issues, etc.

If all of the above is fixed, then I'd be willing to wait another week or 2 as long as it's done right.

Thanks for listening Apple.
Can't wait to finally install Leopard on the rest of my Macs.

the boot delay is caused from temperature sensor enabled Geforce cards that is conflicting with the AppleHWSensor.kext in G4 systems only (so far that i have seen). you remove the .kext file and the boot delay is gone. themacelite.com covers this issue (if you already didn't know) which i think you already do. which this might not be fixed cause it could be a issue Apple to put into pace to try to force you not to do it.

one of the builds say if fixes issues with WOWs artifacting with video cards.

andy721

Feb 4, 2008, 09:25 PM

I'm pretty sure that Onyx just applies the infamous "sudo defaults write /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.WindowServer 'EnvironmentVariables' -dict 'CI_NO_BACKGROUND_IMAGE' 0.62" hack to make the menu bar opaque so it's not exactly a 3rd party hack.

im pretty sure its 3rd party ok.

Chris F

Feb 4, 2008, 09:26 PM

Another vote for 'don't care if it takes a bit longer if it's done right'.

QCassidy352

Feb 4, 2008, 09:27 PM

Sure, I feel the pain of Leopard like everyone else around here. Leopard symbolizes what is wrong with Apple nowadays: poor quality and trying to do to much.

10.5.1 was probably rushed out the door because of the showstopper Finder bug that was never caught, I hopefully we'll see some of the stability Tiger had returning.

I guess I'm using a different Leopard then you guys. I've used it since day 1 and have had zero issues (except 3rd party apps not being compatible, for which I can hardly blame apple) at any time.

RaceTripper

Feb 4, 2008, 09:27 PM

I hate anything 3rd party. They are done by poor software engineers.WTF? Are you serious, or truly that clueless? Has it not occurred to you that Apple deevlopers come out of the pool of 3rd party developers, and that the pool of 3rd party developers includes retirees from Apple?

Or look at it another way...next time you are on a flight remember this...the avionics software that controls the aircraft's takeoff, flight, and landing was not written by Apple, but by those poor third party software engineers.

macnerd77

Feb 4, 2008, 09:27 PM

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

Time is not an issue for me. I just hope apple gets this update right and squashes most of the bugs or atleast the big ones. I preach mac to all my friends and family but leopard has made me feel like i am running windows again and I HATE WINDOWS.

twoodcc

Feb 4, 2008, 09:28 PM

good that they are working on Time Machine. maybe this update will be a big one. looking forward to it's release

Rocketman

Feb 4, 2008, 09:30 PM

I vote for 9C 28 or 29 and the hope that 2-3 of 10 issues preventing developed but buggy "future features" be resolved.

RAID for laptops, wireless discs, seamless IP discs, ZFS write, utility that is free to download that turns any wireless router into a public wifi to those devices who happen to know the widely distributed (to iPhone devices) but still random password.

A device and software to make a modern mac universally compatible with past Mac apps and devices.

Rocketman

Kar98

Feb 4, 2008, 09:41 PM

Please......let me see other computers connected to my network.......

I saw somebody's Macbook on my network yesterday. Windows PCs, not so much.

SeaFox

Feb 4, 2008, 09:43 PM

Could be worse...they could be Microsoft.

XP was released 10/2001
SP1 was released 9/2002
SP2 was released 8/2004

I'd say we are lucky with Apple's schedule....months instead of years!

-Kevin

Speaking of Microsoft, they just sent Vista SP1 to manufacturing. They aren't going to release it online until next month, though.

As long as Apple gets 10.5.2 out before then I'll be happy. Since then we'll have still gotten most of our bugs ironed out before they did theirs.

MacFly123

Feb 4, 2008, 09:46 PM

And here comes SP3 in 3/2008, right on schedule. :p

What about Vista? When was that released again? And have they even released the first service pack for it yet??? I want to see how many dot releases we get before they get the first service pack lol :D

MacGeek7

Feb 4, 2008, 09:50 PM

I am afraid Apple might charge for this update. Would Apple even do this? Charge for a software update? :confused: :(

I highly doubt that Apple would charge for a .2 release. I believe it would be the first time ever for an upgrade to an already purchased OS upgrade...but then again look at the January update to the iPod touch. If they charged for the .2 update Apple would have massive complaints against them.

MacFly123

Feb 4, 2008, 09:52 PM

Yes I wonder what this issue is. I also have an SR Macbook and have had zero wireless problems....:confused:

Mine has disconnected several times and it is annoying. Other than that Leopard has been good.

honeycrisp

Feb 4, 2008, 09:53 PM

I highly doubt that Apple would charge for a .2 release. I believe it would be the first time ever for an upgrade to an already purchased OS upgrade...but then again look at the January update to the iPod touch. If they charged for the .2 update Apple would have massive compliments against them.

I think you mean complaints. I don't think they'd have any compliments!

darthraige

Feb 4, 2008, 09:54 PM

I am afraid Apple might charge for this update. Would Apple even do this? Charge for a software update? :confused: :(

Charge? For THEIR mistakes? No way!

ifonline

Feb 4, 2008, 10:01 PM

I hate anything 3rd party. They are done by poor software engineers.

This is one of the most idiotic and short-sighted comments I have read in a long time. Bravo. :rolleyes:

Mindflux

Feb 4, 2008, 10:02 PM

Charge? For THEIR mistakes? No way!

Why not? Car companies do it all the time.

Quillz

Feb 4, 2008, 10:03 PM

What about Vista? When was that released again? And have they even released the first service pack for it yet??? I want to see how many dot releases we get before they get the first service pack lol :D
SP1 is to be released very soon, so Apple will likely have sent 10.5.2 by that point.

Eric S.

Feb 4, 2008, 10:03 PM

10.5.2 better be polished.

Or? You just won't download 10.5.3? ;)

Beric

Feb 4, 2008, 10:08 PM

Why not? Car companies do it all the time.

I hope Apple hasn't gone as low as car companies. The iPod Touch update added features, not fixed bugs, as I heard (I don't have an iPod Touch). 10.5.2 is hopefully bringing Leopard to the point where it should have been when it was released, if Leopard hadn't been rushed out.

KingYaba

Feb 4, 2008, 10:12 PM

Any chance I can exchange my 10.5.0 disk for a 10.5.2 one in the future?

AidenShaw

Feb 4, 2008, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by kbmb
Could be worse...they could be Microsoft.

XP was released 10/2001
SP1 was released 9/2002
SP2 was released 8/2004

I'd say we are lucky with Apple's schedule....months instead of years!

-Kevin

And here comes SP3 in 3/2008, right on schedule. :p

The difference is that every month has a "Patch Tuesday", when lots of things are available from MS.

You don't need regular service packs when you're pumping out fixes and updates every month (or sooner, for urgent issues).

Microsoft and Apple are taking different tactics with online updating - and Microsoft's way gets stuff to the users faster.

10.5.2 is turning into Apple's "Vista"....

And, by the way, did you see that Vista SP1 will be a 60 MB download, and 10.5.2 is going to be 400 MB or more?

So, a year after Vista ships we get 60 MB, and a few months after Leopard ships we get 400 MB. Do the math, one company is on top of things....

darthraige

Feb 4, 2008, 10:19 PM

Why not? Car companies do it all the time.

True. lol But still, we're are talking about an OS update here. When has Apple ever charged for an OS update? Nnnnnnnnnnnever. lol

Papajohn56

Feb 4, 2008, 10:21 PM

And here comes SP3 in 3/2008, right on schedule. :p

1,2,4

Hey it's almost a fibonacci sequence for their release year intervals

india349

Feb 4, 2008, 10:23 PM

Any chance I can exchange my 10.5.0 disk for a 10.5.2 one in the future?

I don't see why you'd need to exchange it, given that Apple hosts updates for years on their Support site. Plus, if you download directly through the support site, you burn the 10.5.2 update to a DVD and just use both the retail and update DVD for system restoration.

I can say being an early adopter of Leopard was probably not in my best interest. I've never had so many applications simply stop properly functioning with an overhaul like Leopard. But I'm glad that Apple recognizes the issues and is working hard on fixing them.

Here's to a more stable operating system! :D

airjuggernaut

Feb 4, 2008, 10:26 PM

Yes I wonder what this issue is. I also have an SR Macbook and have had zero wireless problems....:confused:
You won't notice it if all you do is surf the internet.
If you use things like Skype, you will constantly loose connections, and you will notice it quite frequently.

KingYaba

Feb 4, 2008, 10:33 PM

ionos

Feb 4, 2008, 10:34 PM

I know many here have huge issues, and some (like me) do not. Since I'm a 'casual' user, my only real gripe so far is the permissions repair issue that takes a long time to fix. I know on my C2D iMac it took much longer than my last week acquired MB 2.2

I think alot of what affects certain users is how much 'stuff' (apps and whatnot) are on their particular machine. My 'vanilla' MB out of the box has been perfect so far. I don't have network browsing issues with my 2003 server or XP machine.

Time machine actually works fine for me and I know there is supposed to be
some kind of lock to a particular machine with it, but I just hooked up my USB 500GB drive and browsed the folders, dragged and dropped data and apps and the work great.

So, I do feel bad for those of you having major issues. But not all of us do (luckily).

I am looking to 5.2, simply to see what has been either added or improved.

Eric S.

Feb 4, 2008, 10:35 PM

And, by the way, did you see that Vista SP1 will be a 60 MB download, and 10.5.2 is going to be 400 MB or more?

So, a year after Vista ships we get 60 MB, and a few months after Leopard ships we get 400 MB. Do the math, one company is on top of things....

Well. this is one of those religious arguments. But have you read any of the many articles and blogs on the net reporting that SP1 still does not fix many of the reliability and performance problems that have plagued Vista since its release a year ago? There are good reasons why Micro$oft had to agree to ship XP with new systems for months after its originally scheduled EOL date.

Beric

Feb 4, 2008, 10:36 PM

You won't notice it if all you do is surf the internet.
If you use things like Skype, you will constantly loose connections, and you will notice it quite frequently.

Or if you play internet games, or use an instant messaging app... and so on. But I get the problem when I'm just surfing the internet as well.

vinny2cubes

Feb 4, 2008, 10:37 PM

I've only had a few minor problems with Leopard... nothing of any great annoyance anyway. I always hope for something newer brighter and shinier, but will wait.

You guys aren't the same ones b*tching about how long it took Apple to release 10.5 in the first place, are you??????

gikku

Feb 4, 2008, 10:39 PM

10.5.2 is going to be 400 MB or more?

yay!
Apple updates are quota free from my ISP, yipee. :) :apple:

ionos

Feb 4, 2008, 10:40 PM

Well. this is one of those religious arguments. But have you read any of the many articles and blogs on the net reporting that SP1 still does not fix many of the reliability and performance problems that have plagued Vista since its release a year ago? There are good reasons why Micro$oft had to agree to ship XP with new systems for months after its originally scheduled EOL date.

As someone who was a development tester on Vista, it was not tuned and obviously ready for prime time. I really doubt this SP will bring it too much closer either.

cecemf

Feb 4, 2008, 10:41 PM

Wed... I can't wait- only took them 3 months. I'm sure that they dedicated a ton of work hours to it and Im glad that they didn't hurt themselves in the process.

Why you people are complaining 3 month is nothing !!!

Look Vista is a year and they still don't have SP1 yet !!!

and Leopard is not that buggy and all apps/hardware works on it !!!

If you want quality update, Be patient ! then you complain people that they ruch it !!! :apple:

motulist

Feb 4, 2008, 10:41 PM

To all of you saying you're glad apple is taking their time to deliver a perfect update:

I disagree.

I think they should release several smaller updates in the span of 2 months, rather than one big one at the end of 2 months. Work hard to get the major bug fixes as close to done as you can, then get it out the door. Even if the current bug fix doesn't do a perfect job fixing the problem, but lessens it, then we'll at least have a useable feature while Apple works on perfecting it.

For instance, a lot of leopard users are unable to connect to wireless networks at all, and many people who are able to connect are having the connection dropped after a short period of time. If Apple could get an update out that at least allows people to connect to their network in the first place, and or doesn't drop the connection quite as frequently, then it'd be extremely helpful.

Due to the extra work of finishing up each update to get it out the door, one partial fix followed by a perfect fix would probably lengthen the amount of time before the perfect fix was delivered by a few days. But to me I'd rather have a totally broken feature become partially working sooner, rather than the feature not working at all for a longer time but getting it perfectly working by a few days sooner.

Know what I mean?

I'm not a programer or developer, so I really don't know how the details work behind the scenes, but I do know that in the past there have been situations where OS updates have only delivered partial fixes at first, and then perfect fixes in a later release.

law guy

Feb 4, 2008, 10:41 PM

I have just upgraded to a Mac Pro from my Power Mac (which was running 10.4.11) and while I LOVE my new MP, I have just tonight had to force quit five or six times out of Safari and around the same out of mail... and one restart just to make sure all was okay, but that was optional. A force quit under 10.4.11 (or anything going back to 10.2...) was really rare (I've probably done more force quits tonight then I did in the whole of last year). My hope is that 10.5.2 fixes these little bugs that seems to be causing these lock up issues.

cecemf

Feb 4, 2008, 10:46 PM

You won't notice it if all you do is surf the internet.
If you use things like Skype, you will constantly loose connections, and you will notice it quite frequently.

I have a macbook core duo and iMac core2duo (alu.) and use skype, iChat + P2P and never had any problem with wifi at all !

My mum as a Mac mini core duo and my uncle iMac core2duo (alu.)

All on Leopard 10.5.1 and no problem (exepte with Screen Sharing over internet).

So it's not everyone affected by this problem (thanks god)

Kar98

Feb 4, 2008, 10:47 PM

You guys aren't the same ones b*tching about how long it took Apple to release 10.5 in the first place, are you??????

But, Leopard 10.5 wasn't delayed because Apple was making it "mo' betta", it was delayed because they decided to play with the stinking iPhone and :apple:TV instead.

dacreativeguy

Feb 4, 2008, 10:54 PM

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

10.5.2 will be released whenever the MacBook pro updates are shipping. That announcement is rumored to be soon so it shouldn't be long.

MARTB

Feb 4, 2008, 11:01 PM

10.5.2 has more seeds than a pumpkin:eek: I guess they really are working it all the way to 9C40, what bad karma ( so help me if this PPC related BS I'll scream ).

im a newb...you macrumor guys are funnnie :D

compuguy1088

Feb 4, 2008, 11:01 PM

I don't see why you'd need to exchange it, given that Apple hosts updates for years on their Support site. Plus, if you download directly through the support site, you burn the 10.5.2 update to a DVD and just use both the retail and update DVD for system restoration.

I can say being an early adopter of Leopard was probably not in my best interest. I've never had so many applications simply stop properly functioning with an overhaul like Leopard. But I'm glad that Apple recognizes the issues and is working hard on fixing them.

Here's to a more stable operating system! :D

It would be even better if you could "slipstream" the update onto a new disk.

a1016neo

Feb 4, 2008, 11:07 PM

I hope 10.5.2 comes out tomorrow!!

pyramid6

Feb 4, 2008, 11:09 PM

...
I'm not a programer or developer, so I really don't know how the details work behind the scenes, but I do know that in the past there have been situations where OS updates have only delivered partial fixes at first, and then perfect fixes in a later release.

I am a programer. Given the fact that they had no know issues for weeks, they screwed up. They made a patch that is too large to get past QA. Programs get exponentially harder the bigger they are. They should have released a couple of smaller patches instead one large one. They could have released a wifi fix, a graphics fix, a TM fix all separate. They have done things like that in the past. Who ever is the release manager should be get more help.

My opinion is that this fix will fix somethings but not all. Not even close. By my count we still have 10 more to go.

P6

dwsolberg

Feb 4, 2008, 11:18 PM

My guess is that Apple is co-developing the AppleTV update with the Leopard update, and that they will be released simultaneously. Anyway, I hope they both come soon.

hh83917

Feb 4, 2008, 11:23 PM

Please... tomorrow, please... tomorrow.... :rolleyes:

HLdan

Feb 4, 2008, 11:34 PM

Could be worse...

Vista SP1 is done, and not available until March so the new systems ship with it the same time it's available to upgrade with.

Yeah, and this is my issue with some of the whiners on this forum. Microsoft released Vista a year ago on Jan 30th and SP1 still won't be available until next month and Vista REALLY needs this update.

Apple immediately put out 10.5.1 right after Leopard was released and 10.5.2 is coming up soon. Apple is spot on with maintaining it's OS and for some of the forum members here Apple's timing is still not good enough and they want it to come faster and for what????
Let's see, they (some forum members) don't care of the real system fixes, they want Stacks hierarchical folders and the switch to turn of the damn translucent menu bar. Stupid stuff that does not improve the system operation. We need bug fixes first and Apple needs to take their time or we will just end up with more issues.

TPALTony

Feb 4, 2008, 11:40 PM

And, by the way, did you see that Vista SP1 will be a 60 MB download, and 10.5.2 is going to be 400 MB or more?

So, a year after Vista ships we get 60 MB, and a few months after Leopard ships we get 400 MB. Do the math, one company is on top of things....

Well, considering that every Windows binary is one processor architecture and one bit size (32 OR 64 depending on which edition you got) then that's a factor of 4 you have to apply to the download size (universal binaries are a neat idea but space efficient they are not!)

So that makes it 60MB versus 100MB (or 240 versus 400, whichever you prefer.)

Personally, I prefer Apple's approach. They DO rush our security updates pretty quickly, and most of the patch Tuesday stuff from Microsoft is just security releases (yes they do a lot more of them, they are under significantly more attack and they have more security problems due to a long history of security negligence which is still haunting them, at least in my opinion.)

If you take "Patch Tuesday" as security releases, and compare feature and bug fixes as being "service packs" then I believe Apple's approach is better.

But that's just me. I also think that the holistic approach Apple takes is better. You can compare individual parts of the PC versus Apple puzzle, and Apple will win some, and MSFT will win some, but in the end, you use an entire computer, and I think when considered holistically, the "it just works" catch phrase, is a reasonably good proxy for how most users (of which I don't think anyone who posts to a macrumors forum qualifies) view their macs. :)

be well

t

MarlboroLite

Feb 4, 2008, 11:42 PM

I couldn't care less if they release it tomorrow or two months from now. 10.5.1 is quite stable for me...wifi works just fine....I haven't one any kernel panics, all my apps work....I'm very satisfied right now.

itsmequinn

Feb 4, 2008, 11:53 PM

AidenShaw

Feb 5, 2008, 12:01 AM

If you take "Patch Tuesday" as security releases, and compare feature and bug fixes as being "service packs" then I believe Apple's approach is better.

But that's not the case.

The security updates on Patch Tuesday are the high priority fixes, the minor bug fixes and feature updates are the optional but recommended fixes.

"Patch Tuesday" is not security only....

Well, considering that every Windows binary is one processor architecture and one bit size (32 OR 64 depending on which edition you got) then that's a factor of 4 you have to apply to the download size (universal binaries are a neat idea but space efficient they are not!)

I hadn't seen the announcement that every fat binary in 10.5 had code for:

Legacy PPC 32-bit
Legacy PPC 64-bit (G5 only)
x86 (for the Yonah systems)
x64 (for Merom and Xeon systems)

Or, maybe you should claim "6x", and split "Legacy PPC 32-bit" into G3 and G4 (AltiVec) systems and x64 into SSE4 (Penryn) and SSE3 systems.

You pulled "4x" out of your hat. Admit it, it's a nonsense argument without any facts to back it up. :D

FreeState

Feb 5, 2008, 12:06 AM

So I know there has been some kidding about Apple charging for software updates to OS X, but does anyone know why they aren't required to charge based on the same law that required them to charge for the Airport Update or the Touch Update (Sarbanes-Oxley)? I mean I know that most of the updates in 10.5.2 will be bug fixes but the stacks functionality and a couple of others seem like they are adding functionality to the product (however marginal). How far could Apple go in adding functionality to OS X before they would HAVE to charge us?

The way I understand it is that the iPhone and AppleTV are accounted for over a two year period and everything else is not. So Apple can add completely new applications to those and not charge - with OSX they would have to charge if they added additional applications that are outside the current scope of 10.5. All of the updates coming are refinements and bug fixes, none of them are new applications.

This is all for tax code and accounting purposes.

newtech

Feb 5, 2008, 12:11 AM

So I know there has been some kidding about Apple charging for software updates to OS X, but does anyone know why they aren't required to charge based on the same law that required them to charge for the Airport Update or the Touch Update (Sarbanes-Oxley)? I mean I know that most of the updates in 10.5.2 will be bug fixes but the stacks functionality and a couple of others seem like they are adding functionality to the product (however marginal). How far could Apple go in adding functionality to OS X before they would HAVE to charge us?

Possibly OS X is grandfathered as having been initially released prior to that statute. Presumably the next architecture after OS X will be subject. Windows Vista and XP would also be grandfathered as it is an extension of Windows NT, also pre statute.

Ti_Poussin

Feb 5, 2008, 12:12 AM

Maybe we will finally get a decent X.5 version. For the size, that's don't really scare me, they may have fix many graphical stuff (maybe some vector graphic, the menu bar, dock image... into the package that take a lot of space), many driver (apple TV take 2, ...). The size isn't not an absolute relation to number of bug fix.

I'm a OS X user since X.0, all I can said is never upgrade for production before X.#.2 or X.#.3 and never go upgrade to the two last minor update they mess up more thing then they solve by getting bad implementation of the next major release feature.

I hope Apple will focus a bit more on OS.X and a little less on Apple TV, but I sincerely doubt it since they make more money out of it.

motulist

Feb 5, 2008, 12:15 AM

This is all for tax code and accounting purposes.

...allegedly

Ti_Poussin

Feb 5, 2008, 12:16 AM

I hadn't seen the announcement that every fat binary in 10.5 had code for:

Legacy PPC 32-bit
Legacy PPC 64-bit (G5 only)
x86 (for the Yonah systems)
x64 (for Merom and Xeon systems)

You pulled "4x" out of your hat. :D

Yeap, anyway Universal binary aren't twice as much bigger, many ressource are share, only the binary code is different. For 32 and 64 bits, most thing don't need or even benefit from it, so it still be not a linear function.

AngryLeprechaun

Feb 5, 2008, 01:34 AM

I'm perfectly fine with 10.5.1. I've only had two problems with Leopard, and that's the fact that it didn't work with my printer (but I got a new one for Christmas anyway) and it won't work with Photoshop CS1 and 2. I really hope the new update will make Photoshop usable on my Mac, but I doubt it.

But what's weird is that my school got Leopard and their Photoshop CS2 works great. I'm hoping when I get my Macbook Pro then Photoshop will work, but I guess we'll see.

MacFly123

Feb 5, 2008, 02:01 AM

Now that pretty much everything runs OS X how does that work? Is the OS X Team responsible for OS X on the iPods, iPhone, Apple TV, and Macs? Or would there be different teams in each to do the OS for each product?

I am also suspicious that things have been slowed down because the Apple TV update is switching from Tiger OS X to Leopard.

MacFly123

Feb 5, 2008, 02:05 AM

SP1 is to be released very soon, so Apple will likely have sent 10.5.2 by that point.

LOL WOW, and it only took them LITERALLY ONE YEAR LOL. That is PATHETIC! And now the sweet Windows 7 won't be out till 2011 or 2012 with their AWESOME multi-touch.... OH, wait, Macs already have that LOL. Microsoft amazes me ;)

cbrain

Feb 5, 2008, 02:31 AM

Maybe 10.5.2 will allow other 64bit macs to run 64bit windows.

syndalis

Feb 5, 2008, 02:34 AM

LOL WOW, and it only took them LITERALLY ONE YEAR LOL. That is PATHETIC! And now the sweet Windows 7 won't be out till 2011 or 2012 with their AWESOME multi-touch.... OH, wait, Macs already have that LOL. Microsoft amazes me ;)
I hate replying to messages like these, because I love all three of my macs, but hate when people are so vastly misinformed about the MS side.

There have been multiple security and bugfixes for Vista since its release. Probably close to 20.

A service pack usually represents significant and increased features/functionality on the Microsoft side, as well as rolling all of the smaller security and bugfixes released throughout the year before its release.

The jump from XP SP1 to SP2 was just as big as the jump from Tiger to Leopard, only folks with legit copies of XP got it for free.

Kelmon

Feb 5, 2008, 02:48 AM

I'll echo the sentiment that a stable release is better than no release but I'd rather they start getting some fixes out instead of trying to fix all issues in a single update. As it stands today, Leopard has real issues that are driving me nuts and while none of them causes my OS to crash, I do want them addressed sooner rather than later. Currently its been about 2-months since anything was fixed and at this stage in the game that's not fast enough.

BWhaler

Feb 5, 2008, 03:04 AM

10.5.2 better be polished.

I hope for the same thing.

schlingelMC

Feb 5, 2008, 03:08 AM

Hopefully they fixed these issues with Photoshop CS3 in 10.5.2 and release it soon. This is driving me nuts. :mad:

http://www.adobe.com/go/kb402796

leehericks

Feb 5, 2008, 03:13 AM

About the future of OS X:

Someone said something like Apple probably isn't sure where to go with it. I think they will continue working on ZFS and I'm sure upgrading the file system will bring positive results for users and developers. Don't expect to see full ZFS functionality by default in 10.5.x. Aside from that, I'm not sure what they will do other than bug fixes, stability and security enhancements, and improvements to their companion software like iLife and iWork. Well, I think input advancements like multi-touch will be improved in the software to better the experience of OS X. And they have a lot of work to do on .mac.

About 10.5.2:

Remember all the talk about heavily updating 10.5 to take advantage of SSE4? That would explain the huge size of the update as a lot of code would be updated and recompiled. I think to Jobs that update is a MUST to make the new Penryn-based MBPs faster and get glorified reviews and spur sales.

Additionally, updating all that code for SSE4 is likely to throw bugs into the mix. Heavy testing is a must before releasing a huge system-wide update.

Finally, I think many things point to Apple releasing Leopard before they should have. They are cleaning up their platform now. If that's the case, then they need to clean it up and fix bugs that were based on a hacked together implementation to get Leopard out the door.

It seems that they have been sliding developers around to maintain their speedy release cycles rather than hiring more programmers to get this all cleaned up. On the other hand, OS X seems to power all the new gadgets across the board and I'm sure Apple has selectively hired the best people for the job.

But what do I know? I'm just waiting to buy my first Mac and get into developing on the Mac platform. Learned Java all through college but...meh...Java....;)

schlingelMC

Feb 5, 2008, 03:28 AM

I hate replying to messages like these, because I love all three of my macs, but hate when people are so vastly misinformed about the MS side.

[...]

The jump from XP SP1 to SP2 was just as big as the jump from Tiger to Leopard, only folks with legit copies of XP got it for free.

That seems a litte bit exaggerated to me, sure they added some features:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/features.mspx

And it was some more stuff "under the hood", but it is not anywhere near enhancements like TimeMachine, CoreAnimation, a complete 64bit Operating System, Quicklook or the new Finder. I think you really underestimate the work they've put in Leopard.

If Apple had just updated Safari, the Firewall, added the sandboxing and threw in some security fixes, your comparison might be accurate...

propropro

Feb 5, 2008, 03:31 AM

The negative part about this is that we may not see new Penryn MBPs for some time :(

iFry

Feb 5, 2008, 03:54 AM

reading some of these posts... i must be quite fortunate to not have many problems with leopard. for the most part it's pretty steady... wireless never drops (did quite a bit in Tiger), networking is great (i see computers on my network, thanks in part to Linksys)... idk; i am looking forward to this update though, here's hoping for today :)

andyvene

Feb 5, 2008, 03:58 AM

Release it quickly!!
Even with that fixes it is going to be always a small issue. 10.4 arrived until 10.4.11 with a lot of security updates.
So Apple what are you waiting for?

Foggy

Feb 5, 2008, 04:31 AM

Please please pleeeeaaaaase let it fix mail - I am fed up of having to access my email through a browser interface.

hhaeschen

Feb 5, 2008, 04:32 AM

You won't notice it if all you do is surf the internet.
If you use things like Skype, you will constantly loose connections, and you will notice it quite frequently.

Can't confirm that. I've luckily never experienced any issues with any Wifi network.
I do, however, have serious issues with waking my Macbook from sleep mode. So, I, too, am waiting almost impatiently for this update to be released, hoping it will dissolve the pain.

CBlakeston

Feb 5, 2008, 04:41 AM

10.5.2 is turning into Apple's "Vista"....

As far as I know Apple have never announced a release date for 10.5.2 its just masses of speculation fueled by new stories. Vista was announced publically and slipped many times, so i'm not sure how you get that comparison? Rag on Appple TV for being late if you want. :)

beestigbeestje

Feb 5, 2008, 05:00 AM

from what I heard, the update is as big as 400mb. I'm curious...

The fact that my brothers Macbook (2.0 ghz 1GB RAM) boots faster into leopard than my 2.4ghz Macbook Pro 2GB, is making me wonder why I payed so much more for it.

and I'm talking about a clean install...

macnerd77

Feb 5, 2008, 05:06 AM

My guess is that Apple is co-developing the AppleTV update with the Leopard update, and that they will be released simultaneously. Anyway, I hope they both come soon.

I agree. I bet they are revamping the interface for frontrow so it will match that of the apple tv. Allowing us to purchase/rent movies from frontrow.
don't take this as a feature that I want. Because I dont care about a frontrow update I just want stability

kaiwai

Feb 5, 2008, 05:37 AM

I am afraid Apple might charge for this update. Would Apple even do this? Charge for a software update? :confused: :(

Stop lying and coming up with bullcrap. Apple never charged for the iPod Touch/iPhone update to 1.1.3 - the only charged for the EXTRA applications.

Read and repeat - free update for all, $20 for the applications.

Question: Why are there so many morons here?

hhaeschen

Feb 5, 2008, 05:37 AM

Could some please explain to me why so many people expect the update to be released either on a Tuesday or Friday? Has there been "historical evidence" for such behaviour?

Thanks!

HyperZboy

Feb 5, 2008, 05:53 AM

People seem to be "raging out" over the fact that hierarchical menus are broken for stacks? WTF!?? :confused: There are other issues that are much more important that affect people that have to do real work with 10.5.1, but you don't see most of them complaining.

The loudest complaints seem to be from people upset over minor, piffling, stupid issues.

Not true at all. If you've got lots of important folders, files, bookmarks/links stored in appropriate folders for say a business like I do and want quick access to them through the Dock through hierarchical menus sorted by importance, Leopard destroys all of that functionality and limits you to a small number of files for quick access. THAT MEANS RE-ORGANIZING YOUR ENTIRE WAY OF STORING INFORMATION.

Who is going to do that?

THAT'S WHY STACKS' PROBLEMS ARE A BIG PROBLEM TO SO MANY PEOPLE!

shadowfax

Feb 5, 2008, 06:00 AM

The fact that my brothers Macbook (2.0 ghz 1GB RAM) boots faster into leopard than my 2.4ghz Macbook Pro 2GB, is making me wonder why I payed so much more for it.

Do you have Windows installed? Try playing Counterstrike: Source. Your Bro' won't even be able to play it, or if he can, it will look terrible.

I wouldn't judge a Mac by its boot time alone. Is yours not faster in general usage? My MBP was a huge step up from the BlackBook I had.

shadowfax

Feb 5, 2008, 06:04 AM

Could some please explain to me why so many people expect the update to be released either on a Tuesday or Friday? Has there been "historical evidence" for such behaviour?

Thanks!

Apple hardware products are traditionally released on Tuesdays, although that precedent has been occasionally ignored in a few notable releases in recent years.

Someone listed the day of all of the Mac OS X 10.x.y updates back several years in a recent thread. There is no real pattern to the release date, other than that it's on weekdays.

EagerDragon

Feb 5, 2008, 06:13 AM

I am running 1.5.1 and very happy with it, I have none of the issues a lot of you are reporting. However I am using a powerbook G4 and not Intel so that may have a lot to do with it. Outside of TimeMachine changes/fixes I am very Happy with Leopard and my network is very stable.

mikes63737

Feb 5, 2008, 06:21 AM

I'm glad they're taking their time. 10.5.0 was unstable, and 10.5.1 was better but created new bugs.

I hope they fix all the Airport / Bluetooth issues on their laptops.

propropro

Feb 5, 2008, 06:30 AM

closed apple store ;)

Civic

Feb 5, 2008, 06:35 AM

Yep, Apple Store down, on a Tuesday morning. ;)

IT-Pro

Feb 5, 2008, 06:35 AM

closed apple store ;)
That's early. The Dutch one isn't closed for your information, not yet at least.

madmax_2069

Feb 5, 2008, 06:42 AM

yep the stores are down here in the US, could this mean we will see the MBP update and possibly the 10.5.2 update later today ?

i do hope so about the update

Blaxje

Feb 5, 2008, 06:43 AM

Woohoo! Bring us new MBP's and a 10.5.2 update!

Civic

Feb 5, 2008, 06:51 AM

Canadian Apple Store went down as well now. European and Japanese still open.

adrian.oconnor

Feb 5, 2008, 06:51 AM

1,2,4

Hey it's almost a fibonacci sequence for their release year intervals

It isn't actually anything like the Fibonacci sequence, which looks like this:

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55

I'm not usually so pedantic about such matters, but nobody else has stepped in. 1, 2, 4 ... is a geometric progression with a common ratio of 2. Numbers in the Fibonacci sequence are the sum of the preceding two numbers (except for 0).

P.S. Please hurry up with 10.5.2 Apple! I have had to revert to Tiger on my iMac because Airport is so unreliable on Leopard.

gnasher729

Feb 5, 2008, 06:55 AM

I am a programer. Given the fact that they had no know issues for weeks, they screwed up. They made a patch that is too large to get past QA. Programs get exponentially harder the bigger they are. They should have released a couple of smaller patches instead one large one. They could have released a wifi fix, a graphics fix, a TM fix all separate. They have done things like that in the past. Who ever is the release manager should be get more help.

Good luck with your career. Compilers are very picky about spelling and grammar and all that, but they only find grammatical errors, they can't figure out when your reasoning is wrong.

How does software go from "no known issues" to "known issues"? Very simple: Bug reports and testing. Now if you don't have any users and don't do any testing, then going from "no known issues" to "known issues" is a bad sign. On the other hand, it could mean that your test department is doing a really good job.

But I am really wondering where you get your knowledge from. "A patch that is too large to get past QA"? I doubt it is true, and I doubt very very much that anyone who knows could post here without being in breach of an NDA.

Blaxje

Feb 5, 2008, 06:58 AM

It'll probably be a 16GB iPhone. Nonetheless, the Canadian store is down too, so maybe there is some other update coming.

vvebsta

Feb 5, 2008, 07:05 AM

did anyone see that 3.0 8 core mac pro for $2499 on the refurbished section of the apple store?

johnnyjibbs

Feb 5, 2008, 07:11 AM

Can't wait for the new stacks. To be honest, I like the transparent menu bar on my dad's Intel Mac, so will be keeping that option ticked once my new UPDATED MacBook Pro arrives (come on Apple :D)

Nice to see that Apple is spending some time ironing out the bugs before release though.

vvebsta

Feb 5, 2008, 07:14 AM

madmax_2069

Feb 5, 2008, 07:19 AM

I want stacks to be its own entity. I dont want it to just be a fancy short cut. I want to grab all the clutter off my desktop make them a new stack and have them actually disappear from the desktop. That would actually be useful!

cant you just make a folder (or use a current one used in stacks) and drag the files into the stack, last time i checked you could drag the file out of the stack and put it on your desktop maybe you can do the reverse. have you tried it. i know you can make any folder into a stack.

vvebsta

Feb 5, 2008, 07:24 AM

cant you just make a folder (or use a current one used in stacks) and drag the files into the stack, last time i checked you could drag the file out of the stack and put it on your desktop maybe you can do the reverse. have you tried it. i know you can make any folder into a stack.

whats the point of having a stack if i have the folder on my desktop? you know what i mean?

edit: oh i get it now...yeah your right, i could do that!

spookje

Feb 5, 2008, 07:25 AM

I hope they will fix all the various issues with Leopard. Hopefully I will be able to connect to 8021.X wifi network at school without the need of getting a copy of Tiger's Internet Connection app. The whole WiFi/networking stuff in Leopard is dodgy. Dropping connections like a traffic light, and half the time it doesn't show connected computers.

Shua

Feb 5, 2008, 07:40 AM

enough with the crying about the iPod Touch.

1) you were not promised any of the applications. It is a above and beyond of original fuctionality.

2) OMG a whole $20.00!?!?!?! Are you kidding! If you don't want the apps then don't pay. Speak with your lack of support if you feel it isn't just.

MacGeek7

Feb 5, 2008, 07:48 AM

I think you mean complaints. I don't think they'd have any compliments!

Good call - thanks

mikejd1

Feb 5, 2008, 07:51 AM

The apple store is down here in the U.S!!!

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore

Kar98

Feb 5, 2008, 07:53 AM

Stop lying and coming up with bullcrap. Apple never charged for the iPod Touch/iPhone update to 1.1.3 - the only charged for the EXTRA applications.

...that should have been there in first place, Mail and Notes in particular.

UMHurricanes34

Feb 5, 2008, 07:53 AM

Time is never time at all.

But 10.5.2 is sure taking a lot of it.

Apple store down :) Let's see what happens.

kaiwai

Feb 5, 2008, 08:05 AM

...that should have been there in first place, Mail and Notes in particular.

Then that is a seperate argument altogether. You got an update for free. They never promised those applications, they never said they would deliver those applications - they don't owe you a damn thing.

Again, stop lying, you never had to pay for the update because the update was free of charge.

icecavern

Feb 5, 2008, 08:12 AM

The apple store is down here in the U.S!!!

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore

UK store isn't...

TBH I just wish they'd release this 10.5.2 update so we get the new camera RAW support. I bought 10.5 on the basis that this release was "immenent" and that it gives me support for my D3. Quite frankly it looks like I'm going to be dumping Aperture and going with lightroom by the end of the week. Apple should split this into smaller updates instead of bundling the lot in one go. At least then we're not all waiting for it.

cthorp

Feb 5, 2008, 08:25 AM

Feels like Christmas. Wonder what's being added. New MBP?

MacUser226

Feb 5, 2008, 08:31 AM

Woo Hoo that apple store is being updated, i sure hope its the new MBP

MBX

Feb 5, 2008, 08:34 AM

Apple store is down? So?

They might just change the Macbook Air & TimeCapsule buttons to "Buy now" (Shipping now)

IEatApples

Feb 5, 2008, 08:35 AM

The apple store is down here in the U.S!!!

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore
WOOHOOOOOO!!! :D

Now give me my MBP!!! :) … :( They're back up…*16GB iPhone + 32GB touch! :):o

No MBP! :(

MBX

Feb 5, 2008, 08:37 AM

Yup, 16gb iphone, 32gb touch

sdhollman

Feb 5, 2008, 08:38 AM

Engagdget has confirmed that the store is down for the 16gb iPhone.

angelodmhl

Feb 5, 2008, 08:41 AM

16 GB iPhone!
32 GB iPod Touch!

theunknown001

Feb 5, 2008, 08:41 AM

yes!
iphone16gb
and
ipod touch 32gb

MBX

Feb 5, 2008, 08:42 AM

10.5.2

Today or Never

theunknown001

Feb 5, 2008, 08:45 AM

but up to now there is no 10.5.2.:(

IT-Pro

Feb 5, 2008, 08:47 AM

10.5.2

Today or Never
Never? Wednesday, Thursday, next week, in two weeks. A lot of possibilities.
I just keep every option open, because Apple turns out to be extremely unpredictable with this update.

If it comes today it won't come for a long time. Apple usually releases updates like these in the afternoon, 4 or 5 PM (EST).

murbanek

Feb 5, 2008, 08:53 AM

Personally, I'd really rather hear that Apple was thoroughly testing this release than hurrying it out into the wild.

Hopefully we'll see fixes for:

Safari stability (must crash at least once or twice a day right now).
Bluetooth wake from sleep issues resolved (hey, where'd my mouse go?)
Nvidia/ATI graphic artifacts corrected in some games (WoW)

I'm sure the update will comprise of many other fixes but these three are at the top of my list.

bearda

Feb 5, 2008, 08:56 AM

Like I've said before, I've not had any actual issues with Leopard of 10.5.1 in general, but I'm looking forward to .2 just for the new features, including the fixes to Stacks and the menu bar.

It's kind of sad when the new features people are looking forward to are to put things back the way they were before Leopard....

eauh

Feb 5, 2008, 09:09 AM

hagjohn

Feb 5, 2008, 09:46 AM

The sad thing is that Vista runs better than Leopard at the moment... at least what I see.

I would just like my Macbook to stop freezing when the display goes to sleep.

The difference is that every month has a "Patch Tuesday", when lots of things are available from MS.

You don't need regular service packs when you're pumping out fixes and updates every month (or sooner, for urgent issues).

Microsoft and Apple are taking different tactics with online updating - and Microsoft's way gets stuff to the users faster.

10.5.2 is turning into Apple's "Vista"....

And, by the way, did you see that Vista SP1 will be a 60 MB download, and 10.5.2 is going to be 400 MB or more?

So, a year after Vista ships we get 60 MB, and a few months after Leopard ships we get 400 MB. Do the math, one company is on top of things....

wakerider017

Feb 5, 2008, 09:46 AM

AidenShaw

Feb 5, 2008, 09:56 AM

Lol, I have one word for you... TROLL

...I took it as clever sarcasm, thanks eauh... :rolleyes:

Sky Blue

Feb 5, 2008, 09:58 AM

Lol, I have one word for you... TROLL

You have one post here. Do you have nothing better to do with your life? Sad...

His Post

Your Head

TheChemist

Feb 5, 2008, 09:59 AM

I've read in all of the 10.5.2 update threads that this patch needs serious/heavy testing.

How does someone go about heavy testing as opposed to 'light' testing?

Thanks

:)

eauh

Feb 5, 2008, 10:09 AM

Lol, I have one word for you... TROLL

You have one post here. Do you have nothing better to do with your life? Sad...

You are killing me wakerider017 just killing me...

AidenShaw

Feb 5, 2008, 10:10 AM

How does someone go about heavy testing as opposed to 'light' testing?

When lots of things are changed, there is a chance that problems might show up due to interactions between components. That means that the whole system needs to be re-checked, not just the "fixed" component.

For example, if a problem in Mail is fixed - then all you need to do is thorough testing of Mail to make sure that Mail still works right.

If you fix wireless networking and file sharing and the finder and change the way the desktop works - you pretty much need to test everything on the system that might use the network or files or the finder, or which has a window on the desktop.

It sounds like enough of the deep "plumbing" in 10.5.2 has been changed that the entire OS needs to be tested anew. That's "heavy" testing.

kaiwai

Feb 5, 2008, 10:11 AM

I've read in all of the 10.5.2 update threads that this patch needs serious/heavy testing.

How does someone go about heavy testing as opposed to 'light' testing?

Thanks

:)

Easy, stress test things - put the machine under heavy loads; when a fault is found, don't brush it off and ignore it - report it straight away.

arkmannj

Feb 5, 2008, 10:12 AM

Well, after reading all your gripes about Apple and this minor update release, I have decided to move to a Vista only machine. I mean Apple sucks and as I see it Vista a WAY better then Leopard is right now. In fact, it seems to me, Leopard can never catch up to the current release of Vista. I would rather go where the stability, user interface, and security is. Good Bye my old Mac Fanatics. It was fun...

I hope I am making the right decision...:eek:

-Ian :D

PeeCee is that you ?
Just to be a friendly guy don't forget spend a couple hundred bucks extra to get "Ultimate edition"
* get Microsoft one care (this product always chapped me, it's blatantly admitting that they won't take the time to make windows secure, but they will take the time to sell you a product that should fill in some of the holes"

* Get Symantic (Norton) / McAfee

* Get SafeBoot

* If you do any developement be sure to buy an extra license of XP so you can install that in Virtual PC for testing

* Get Cisco Clean Access Agent

There's your first days shopping list to get Vista started PeeCee, tomorrows list will have the couple hundred bucks to get a fraction of the functionality and usability of iLife and iWork.

best wishes,
~Mac

eauh

Feb 5, 2008, 10:23 AM

PeeCee is that you ?
Just to be a friendly guy don't forget spend a couple hundred bucks extra to get "Ultimate edition"
* get Microsoft one care (this product always chapped me, it's blatantly admitting that they won't take the time to make windows secure, but they will take the time to sell you a product that should fill in some of the holes"

* Get Symantic (Norton) / McAfee

* Get SafeBoot

* If you do any developement be sure to buy an extra license of XP so you can install that in Virtual PC for testing

* Get Cisco Clean Access Agent

There's your first days shopping list to get Vista started PeeCee, tomorrows list will have the couple hundred bucks to get a fraction of the functionality and usability of iLife and iWork.

best wishes,
~Mac

Thank you so much for the support!

I also understand that I should set aside a whole weekend to make sure my computer is working properly. This will only happen once I get my drivers in order and hunt down, through Google, how to fix all the various errors I will encounter when I start up my computer because my hardware and Vista are not yet compatible.

And, I will also need to see what all the other software errors are at start up too so I can nip them in the butt. Any good program for a registry cleaner so when I delete them I can make sure they are off my computer for sure?

Oh, boy! You have me so excited now! You silly Mac fools and your "it just works" attitude; Haven’t we forgotten that pounding on a computer to get it to work properly is half the fun of owing it in the first place! I just miss that aspect so I will go to the far superior Vista only road from here on out!

Thanks again!
Ian

Area51Tazz

Feb 5, 2008, 10:28 AM

Anyone know if the use of air disks for a time machine backup is included?
I know it hasn't been in the past.
This would be AWESOME!

Eidorian

Feb 5, 2008, 10:50 AM

Do you have Windows installed? Try playing Counterstrike: Source. Your Bro' won't even be able to play it, or if he can, it will look terrible.

I wouldn't judge a Mac by its boot time alone. Is yours not faster in general usage? My MBP was a huge step up from the BlackBook I had.It's quite playable on the MacBook's with the GMA X3100.

Pooba

Feb 5, 2008, 10:59 AM

Or? You just won't download 10.5.3? ;)

I love 10.5, but there is a bug. When the double mouse click speed is set to a slow setting the finder folders take five seconds to open. Once the mouse setting is set to the highest setting the folders just pop right open. I did the bug report to Apple. Now if Apple can bring back or Unsanity can get windowshade to work in 10.5.2 everything would be peachy.

Hard Nard

Feb 5, 2008, 11:02 AM

MM2270

Feb 5, 2008, 11:04 AM

I can't recall the last time I've so anxiously awaited a point point release of OS X. Maybe there was another time like this, but I don't remember, I can't wait to see if 10.5.2 addresses all my little issues with Leopard or not.

The kicker is, I don't even have Leopard installed on my home Mac. I've been holding off for this dang release!:p

0racle

Feb 5, 2008, 11:06 AM

does anyone know why they aren't required to charge based on the same law that required them to charge for the Airport Update or the Touch Update (Sarbanes-Oxley)?Ok, I've seen this stated a lot. What part of SOX *requires* a company to charge for anything they want to give away?

arkmannj

Feb 5, 2008, 11:18 AM

Thank you so much for the support!

I also understand that I should set aside a whole weekend to make sure my computer is working properly. This will only happen once I get my drivers in order and hunt down, through Google, how to fix all the various errors I will encounter when I start up my computer because my hardware and Vista are not yet compatible.

And, I will also need to see what all the other software errors are at start up too so I can nip them in the butt. Any good program for a registry cleaner so when I delete them I can make sure they are off my computer for sure?

Oh, boy! You have me so excited now! You silly Mac fools and your "it just works" attitude; Haven’t we forgotten that pounding on a computer to get it to work properly is half the fun of owing it in the first place! I just miss that aspect so I will go to the far superior Vista only road from here on out!

Thanks again!
Ian

No Problem, Anything I can do to help those poor neglected PC Users.
When ever I have a problem with a PC I've discovered a perfect three step process that clears up the issues 100% of the time, regardless if it's a security issue, driver issue, etc. Here we go:

Tools required: 1 flathead screw driver

1) Firmly place one hand on the PC's tan, metallic casing. be sure the hold is firm you don't want it to accidentally slip during the following steps. (You may even want to "Hug" the casing)

2) Stick screwdriver into the wall power socket.

3) hold on until the slight tingle you will be getting stops.

This method has proven effecting 100% of the time it accomplishes one of the following:

1) Removes the PC from the troublesome state it was in.
2) Removes the PC User from the troublesome state they were in.
3) Both #1 & #2

I don't suggest anyone try this, it's my patent-pending process, other advisers working on the process with me have suggested something involving water may make the process more effective.

but personally I think OS X of any version is a better solution. Sure I can't wait for 10.5.2 but I'll take my faulty 10.5.1 over any version of windows :)
as you can see OS X just doesn't involve the same level of pain windows offers.

eauh

Feb 5, 2008, 11:21 AM

but personally I think OS X of any version is a better solution. Sure I can't wait for 10.5.2 but I'll take my faulty 10.5.1 over any version of windows :)
as you can see OS X just doesn't involve the same level of pain windows offers.

My point exactly.

-Ian

TheChemist

Feb 5, 2008, 11:25 AM

@ AidenShaw
@ Kaiwai

Thanks for your replies :)

Is the bulk of the testing done by a software that is programmed to execute a series of commands and the results analyzed by developers or is all the testing done by programers/developers/QA ?

A follow up question regarding bugs, is there an industry standard which stipulates what type of bugs are low,medium,high priority or is that determination made by the developing team (or even boss who isn't a developer)?

Thanks again

Denarius

Feb 5, 2008, 11:25 AM

IT-Pro

Feb 5, 2008, 11:27 AM

Some new information has just been published by AppleInsider.

It seems like Apple wants 10.5.2 be tested extremely well. Every seed update they reduce the focus area's a little. In the latest build (9C30) this has been reduced to 9 areas of testing focus. Which means we're now pretty near release.

Suddenly 135 bugfixes have been listed and among those are 10 fixes especially for Time Machine. Even the latest build contains 2 fixes for Time Machine, the third one has't been specified.

Given these facts it seems doubtfull Apple would release the update today.
They might even release a new seed later this week to be ready for prime time next week, which seems logical as next Tuesday is the day the new MacBook Pros are expected to appear.

Chromako

Feb 5, 2008, 11:36 AM

Thank G-d. The AFP Client is broken... argh. pahleese hurry, apple?

Not to mention data corruption, MBP Toslink and USB wonkyness, Time Machine, Quartz Extreme weirdness, unreliable SMB...

Then again I have tried my roommate's Vista and it doesn't compare. meh. still, hurryhurry? for me?

skyrider007

Feb 5, 2008, 11:37 AM

Today is Tuesday!

chem

Feb 5, 2008, 11:48 AM

The kicker is, I don't even have Leopard installed on my home Mac. I've been holding off for this dang release!:p

Me too, and I have an ADC account. My ADC disc of Leopard has been sitting on the shelf waiting for 10.5.2.

Peace

Feb 5, 2008, 11:49 AM

Me too, and I have an ADC account. My ADC disc of Leopard has been sitting on the shelf waiting for 10.5.2.

If you have an ADC account and the 10.5.0 disk why not just download 10.5.2 ?

canishoopus

Feb 5, 2008, 11:51 AM

First post, thought I'd share the seed history I've tracked:

Build, Release Date, Days since previous build
9c7 | 12/18/07
9c16 | 1/15/08 | 28
9c20 | 1/22/08 | 7
9c23 | 1/24/08 | 2
9c25 | 1/28/08 | 4
9c27 | 1/31/08 | 3
9c30 | 2/4/08 | 4

chem

Feb 5, 2008, 12:00 PM

If you have an ADC account and the 10.5.0 disk why not just download 10.5.2 ?

Student ADC account. We don't get the seeds.

arkmannj

Feb 5, 2008, 12:03 PM

Did anyone note that the 10.4.11 combo update came to 180mb, compared to 10.5.2's lowest estimate of 360mb? So Tiger required half as much code to fix it in its entire life span as Leopard required after 3 months. Seems to me that if they'd put the resources into Leopard in the first place rather than channeling those resources into adding yet another mobile phone to the market they'd have avoided spoiling the release of what is in concept an excellent OS.

I think somone already mentioned something similar this in another post; but if the updates are this significant maybe it would be very kind of Apple to allow those that purchased 10.5.0 disks to swap them for 10.5.2 disks. I know Apple will offer downloads of it for some time, but I would think that the 10.5.2 version of the disks would include disk utility fixes, and that can affect someone who is running disk utility off of the install DVD's. Heck I'd even pay $5.00 S&H or something to get the 10.5.2 disks.

I love my iPhone, but I wish they could have somehow added resources to the iPhone team without taking any from the OS X team(s).

iMac-Fan

Feb 5, 2008, 12:05 PM

Can't wait for the :apple: 10.5.2 update , just like the rest of you, and I don't care how long it takes, especially if it's done right!

And a couple of points that came up.

:apple: Sure Leopard was rushed at the end, but for me it was still worth the move from Tiger. The overall speed increase versus the minor graphical glitches I encountered still make it one of the best OS's on the planet.

:apple: PC Lovers, spew all the lies you wish, a true Mac fan knows that any G4 , G5 or Macintel would slaughter the Windoze boxes just on boot up's alone never mind the ability to actually multi-task. (Provided each platform had the same amount of ram & cpu speed).

Windows will never be anything but a pale imitation of the real thing!

Freecity88

Feb 5, 2008, 12:36 PM

I am good. I can wait.:D

newtech

Feb 5, 2008, 12:59 PM

First post, thought I'd share the seed history I've tracked:

Build, Release Date, Days since previous build
9c7 | 12/18/07
9c16 | 1/15/08 | 28
9c20 | 1/22/08 | 7
9c23 | 1/24/08 | 2
9c27 | 1/31/08 | 7
9c30 | 2/4/08 | 4

You missed the 9C25 seed 1/28/08

TheSpaz

Feb 5, 2008, 01:05 PM

:apple: PC Lovers, spew all the lies you wish, a true Mac fan knows that any G4 , G5 or Macintel would slaughter the Windoze boxes just on boot up's alone never mind the ability to actually multi-task.

It always bothers me when people talk about boot time... who the heck cares? Oooooooh 3 seconds FASTER now! Yay, I need more RAM for boot time, I gotta boot faster and faster! Come on, give me a break. I never even shut down my Mac, so I guess my boot time is 0 seconds. I'll leave my computer on for months at a time without any problems... also, I only boot when a System Update forces me to.

AidenShaw

Feb 5, 2008, 01:06 PM

Is the bulk of the testing done by a software that is programmed to execute a series of commands and the results analyzed by developers or is all the testing done by programers/developers/QA ?

Both. Automated regression testing is useful for some applications. For example, scripts can run video encoders and databases and other applications, and see if a string of commands to a standard input results in the correct output.

Other problems, particularly interactions between fixes, are harder to automate. To find these, beta testers are given the product to simply use as they normally use the system. If they see something odd, they report it along with as much information as they can to show how to reproduce the problem.

A follow up question regarding bugs, is there an industry standard which stipulates what type of bugs are low,medium,high priority or is that determination made by the developing team (or even boss who isn't a developer)?

One of the hardest questions in software development is determining "Which bugs do we ship?".

In general, cosmetic bugs get a low rank. High would be system crashers, security holes, and data/file corruptions.

Annoyance and embarrassment are factors, as well as the ease of any workaround. If a calendar occasionally messes up its display, and a refresh clears it - low priority. If the finder is messed up every time it is brought onscreen and has to be refreshed - high priority.

psychofreak

Feb 5, 2008, 01:07 PM

It always bothers me when people talk about boot time... who the heck cares? Oooooooh 3 seconds FASTER now! Yay, I need more RAM for boot time, I gotta boot faster and faster! Come on, give me a break. I never even shut down my Mac, so I guess my boot time is 0 seconds. I'll leave my computer on for months at a time without any problems... also, I only boot when a System Update forces me to.

If I had a desktop, I would be the same, but it makes a big difference in class when I start up my Mac in seconds and PC users take a minute...leaving it on is not an option because of the need for it to last all day.

TheSpaz

Feb 5, 2008, 01:11 PM

If I had a desktop, I would be the same, but it makes a big difference in class when I start up my Mac in seconds and PC users take a minute...leaving it on is not an option because of the need for it to last all day.

Ever heard of sleep or hibernation? If I'm not mistaken, hibernating your Mac causes it to completely shut down with only enough power to keep your data loaded into the memory so that it can boot even faster than a normal boot.

Eidorian

Feb 5, 2008, 01:21 PM

Ever heard of sleep or hibernation? If I'm not mistaken, hibernating your Mac causes it to completely shut down with only enough power to keep your data loaded into the memory so that it can boot even faster than a normal boot.Sadly Deep Sleep isn't enabled for desktops or easily accessible by default.

jhsfosho

Feb 5, 2008, 01:27 PM

seriously Apple, just release it already!

numbsafari

Feb 5, 2008, 01:28 PM

Could be worse...they could be Microsoft.

XP was released 10/2001
SP1 was released 9/2002
SP2 was released 8/2004

I'd say we are lucky with Apple's schedule....months instead of years!

-Kevin

While I generally agree with the negative sentiment against MS, I have to say that this is a bit disingenuous. Microsoft has a different strategy towards releasing updates. In particular, between those dates they released many, many hot fixes that could be downloaded individually (especially if you had Windows Update running). The SP's represent (1) things that needed to be done across the board and you needed to rely on being there (often times new features, etc.) and (2) a bundling of all the current hotfixes.

It's a bit of an Apples to Oranges (sorry for the pun) comparison.

That said, it's reasonable to complain about how the hotfixes are released, etc. and its probably true the Apple's approach makes more sense overall. However, it's not like MS was sitting on their hands not releasing any bug fixes during that time and left their customers high and dry.

TheSpaz

Feb 5, 2008, 02:17 PM

Sadly Deep Sleep isn't enabled for desktops or easily accessible by default.

If you remember correctly, he said "IF I had a desktop..." ...therefore, I assumed he had a notebook and therefore it has hibernation (If it was made within the last couple of years.)

Nevermind, I skipped over the word "Sadly" indicating that you wish it was there on Desktops by default.

Eidorian

Feb 5, 2008, 02:21 PM

If you remember correctly, he said "IF I had a desktop..." ...therefore, I assumed he had a notebook and therefore it has hibernation (If it was made within the last couple of years.)

Nevermind, I skipped over the word "Sadly" indicating that you wish it was there on Desktops by default.Desktop or not true hibernation isn't easily accessible without a third party application or Terminal commands.

bilbo--baggins

Feb 5, 2008, 02:23 PM

I agree with those that have said they'd rather wait and get everything fixed properly.

With so many bugs to fix, and some of them making major features of their products unusable (eg. Airport Disks) I wonder whether they should have released multiple smaller updates as soon as they got each important bit fixed.

Daveoc64

Feb 5, 2008, 02:29 PM

Desktop or not true hibernation isn't easily accessible without a third party application or Terminal commands.

Yep.

Apple only supports it if the battery runs completely out when you are in sleep (which is useless for what most users want/need).

BRLawyer

Feb 5, 2008, 02:32 PM

I'm getting impatient.

This update better be perfect, they've spend a lot of time on it.

This will probably be THE flawless release of an update by Apple, with no parallel in its corporate history.

I've never seen them work so much to squash all issues...no wonder it's gonna be a sizeable download to please all Mac users; this is just gonna consolidate Leopard's position as the paradigm for rock-solid OSs in the IT world.

BRLawyer

Feb 5, 2008, 02:35 PM

It always bothers me when people talk about boot time... who the heck cares? Oooooooh 3 seconds FASTER now! Yay, I need more RAM for boot time, I gotta boot faster and faster! Come on, give me a break. I never even shut down my Mac, so I guess my boot time is 0 seconds. I'll leave my computer on for months at a time without any problems... also, I only boot when a System Update forces me to.

One thing is for sure...OS X multitasking is miles ahead of any Windows release...I can feel it everyday when working with Windows at work...just open a few more windows and apps than the usual bunch and you'll see it. On the other hand, OS X handles it all without a hiccup.

Daveoc64

Feb 5, 2008, 02:41 PM

It always bothers me when people talk about boot time... who the heck cares? Oooooooh 3 seconds FASTER now! Yay, I need more RAM for boot time, I gotta boot faster and faster! Come on, give me a break. I never even shut down my Mac, so I guess my boot time is 0 seconds. I'll leave my computer on for months at a time without any problems... also, I only boot when a System Update forces me to.

Mobile Users.

I don't want to leave my MacBook on all the time.

Sleep is ok for some occasions, but it's not always suitable.

Also, some people don't like to leave anything turned on when it's not in use - either for financial, climate or safety reasons.

Then there's boot camp - I have to reboot to use that.

/dev/toaster

Feb 5, 2008, 02:43 PM

I hope this fixes the issues with PubSubAgent .. I want to use RSS feeds in Mail.app and I am getting very sick and tired of killing off that process. It goes into a state that sucks up 100% CPU and kicks up the fans to max.

It has gotten so bad (even with all the feeds turned off) that I was forced to write a cronjob that runs every 1 minute to kill it off.

Anyone know if this was fixed ?

AidenShaw

Feb 5, 2008, 02:44 PM

This will probably be THE flawless release of an update by Apple, with no parallel in its corporate history.

I've never seen them work so much to squash all issues...no wonder it's gonna be a sizeable download to please all Mac users; this is just gonna consolidate Leopard's position as the paradigm for rock-solid OSs in the IT world.

Just bookmarked this post - if 10.5.2 turns out to be a train wreck, it will be fun.

/dev/toaster

Feb 5, 2008, 02:45 PM

It always bothers me when people talk about boot time... who the heck cares? Oooooooh 3 seconds FASTER now! Yay, I need more RAM for boot time, I gotta boot faster and faster! Come on, give me a break. I never even shut down my Mac, so I guess my boot time is 0 seconds. I'll leave my computer on for months at a time without any problems... also, I only boot when a System Update forces me to.

I guess you never sat on the freezing ground at an airport trying to look up a quick address for directions. Those extra 3 seconds are _really_ nice during those times :D

John Purple

Feb 5, 2008, 02:45 PM

I never even shut down my Mac, so I guess my boot time is 0 seconds. I'll leave my computer on for months at a time without any problems... also, I only boot when a System Update forces me to.

Welcome to the discussion on climate change :(

kingtj

Feb 5, 2008, 03:08 PM

As much as I dislike Windows Vista, I do have to say one thing. Bashing MS for charging more for the "Ultimate" edition is probably slightly misguided.

For starters, it's apparently the only version of Vista that includes DVDs with *both* a 32-bit and a 64-bit version of the OS on them. (That means some Vista Ultimate buyers are making back a few bucks reselling the version they're not interested in installing. See eBay for many examples of this.)

But more importantly, Vista Ultimate includes the "media center" functionality which Apple still lacks. All we got from Apple is "Front Row". While slick-looking, Front Row is frankly little more than a vehicle to help boost the sales of content purchased from iTunes. If it's not directly related to material you can buy from the iTunes store, Front Row doesn't really work with it (other than displaying your photos from iPhoto).

I just sold my g/f a new iMac 20" of mine. She upgraded from a PC running XP Media Center edition. So far, she's largely disappointed, because first - she had to spend another $100 on a TV tuner and software just to get back *some* of what her Media Center PC could do. Then, we discovered the tuner we bought couldn't do "time shifting" of live TV broadcasts coming from her analog cable company's signal. For that, she had to spend about $80 more on a more advanced tuner solution. (XP Media Center handled all of this "out of the box".)

Even after we buy the better tuner, it STILL won't tune in FM radio stations like Media Center did, and the integration isn't there either. (EG. You need two remote controls, one for the TV software and one for Front Row. You can't even make the "EyeTV" software plug in as another menu option on Front Row's menu or anything. The two act like totally independent apps, despite making perfect sense to be integrated as one front-end for media.)

PeeCee is that you ?
Just to be a friendly guy don't forget spend a couple hundred bucks extra to get "Ultimate edition" .....................

Neo110503

Feb 5, 2008, 03:11 PM

What time of day do the usually release updates?

Eric S.

Feb 5, 2008, 03:15 PM

Suddenly 135 bugfixes have been listed and among those are 10 fixes especially for Time Machine. Even the latest build contains 2 fixes for Time Machine, the third one has't been specified.

I think the focus on Time Machine is to make sure that 10.5.2 works smoothly with Time Capsule, which is supposed to be available this month. My guess is that we'll see 10.5.2 and Time Capsule more or less simultaneously.