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whozurdaddy
Feb 4, 2008, 11:53 PM
Are we getting short changed? On Apple's site (http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html) for the Optional 64GB solid-state drive at the bottom of the page it states that "1GB=1 billion bytes. Actual formatted capacity less."

So by this math, 64GB = 64,000,000,000 bytes. If you convert that gigabytes it should be 59.6GB. Why is the capacity in Disk Utility showing 55.5GB? Is this a 60GB SSD drive? I know people have complained about similar issues before (see here: http://forums.ilounge.com/archive/index.php/t-132092.html) but I don't understand the 4GB discrepancy (59.6GB vs 55.5GB).



switz
Feb 5, 2008, 12:16 AM
I am typing this on my new 1.8 SSD I bought at the Chandler Apple store in Phoenix. It was the last of the ten units that came in today. The 64Gb is probably a marketing number. One typically looses at a minimum of 7% to 15% of the space when formatting the device. If we do the division, we see about 13% overhead which is not that unreasonable.

The unit I had on order with the Apple store may not get out of Shanghai Pudong airport may not depart until next week due to both the Chinese New Year celebrations and the severe weather. As I will on the road, I elected to acquire the available unit. One in hand is worth two in the bush.

In the time it took to type this the little fan has come on. I think it has been busy downloading updates while I was composing this message.

whozurdaddy
Feb 5, 2008, 12:36 AM
First, congrats on your new system! I ordered mine from apple.com and it cleared customs on 2/3. I have yet to hear my fan come on, but I'm not really doing a whole lot yet.

As for the space, 64GB is a marketing number but even using their math it doesn't add up. I understand slack space and how cluster sizes can affect the available free space, but we're talking about the raw numbers from Disk Utility.

It's all math. We should be able calculate exactly how much raw disk space is available and by numbers, it's off my 4GB.

whozurdaddy
Feb 7, 2008, 11:09 AM
Another reason to believe we should have 60GB free on a clean, formatted drive:

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/MacBookAir_0801/Articles/ProductDeveloperNote.html

See the Drive Interface section. It states "The MacBook Air is available with an optional 64 GB solid state drive with a formatted capacity of 60 GB."

I'm still searching for answers as to why it's 55.5GB.

michaelvoigt
Feb 7, 2008, 11:17 AM
Does OS X use a dedicated swap partition? if that is the case that could account for the lost space that you see?

jahala
Feb 7, 2008, 11:31 AM
I know that there is a small partition for EFI data, but I don't know how big it is.

xUKHCx
Feb 7, 2008, 11:34 AM
I know that there is a small partition for EFI data, but I don't know how big it is.

IIRC it is 200MB.

aristobrat
Feb 7, 2008, 11:46 AM
IIRC it is 200MB.
Could the EFI (i.e. recovery partition) be larger in order to deal with the AirDisk method of being able to restore the OS via WiFi?

thejadedmonkey
Feb 7, 2008, 07:26 PM
Could the EFI (i.e. recovery partition) be larger in order to deal with the AirDisk method of being able to restore the OS via WiFi?

4 gigs is enough space for an entire OS!

aristobrat
Feb 7, 2008, 10:03 PM
Yeah, that's true. When I googled this topic, I saw an HP document that stated up to 8GB on a SSD drive could be dedicated to system recovery, so I wasn't sure if they were specifically talking about how they do SSD drives, or SSD drives in general.

This was interesting. I wasn't aware that there was a maximum amount of times that a SSD could be written to (not that a normal person would ever run into that). Wonder if there's some disk space kept in reserve for problems with cells?
Thereís also some concern about the drive wearing out. You may not know it but flash memory has a limited amount of times that you can write to it. With my old Omnibook 300, I had to occasionally run wear leveling software to ensure that there werenít premature dead cells occurring. Those dead cells would stop responding to write commands. While you could read from them forever, the cells would essentially turn into read only memory. That still occurs on flash memory today but the algorithms to minimize it and the cycles has increased so much that it really isnít a factor. In the MTronís case, the company claims a write endurance of greater than 140 years with you writing or erasing 50GB per day. If true, that means the notebook will long be in the scrap pile before you ever wear out any cells.
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/is_a_solid_state_drive_in_your_future?page=0%2C1

Krevnik
Feb 8, 2008, 06:11 PM
This was interesting. I wasn't aware that there was a maximum amount of times that a SSD could be written to (not that a normal person would ever run into that). Wonder if there's some disk space kept in reserve for problems with cells?

All good drives do. Even HDDs you buy now have reserve blocks which are only used when bad blocks are found. But it doesn't affect the actual formatted capacity (The advertised space for an HDD doesn't include the reserve blocks).

I don't know why there is still a 4GB block of space unaccounted for. That is a bit big to be used for reserve blocks.

cowm007
Feb 8, 2008, 06:25 PM
Open up terminal and type in "diskutil list". Maybe there's a hidden partition in there?

redbma
Feb 8, 2008, 07:22 PM
Have the same 'issue' here. Got my 1.8/64SSD MBA yesterday and noticed the reduced capacity. Diskutil results were:

/dev/disk0
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *55.9 Gi disk0
1: EFI 200.0 Mi disk0s1
2: Apple_HFS Macintosh HD 55.6 Gi disk0s2


Doesnt seem to shed any more light on where the missing 4GB ended up.

Anyone tried doing a reformat and reinstall?

txlef
Feb 8, 2008, 07:46 PM
My diskutil list shows the same thing:

#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *55.9 Gi disk0
1: EFI 200.0 Mi disk0s1
2: Apple_HFS Macintosh HD 55.6 Gi disk0s2

I'm feeling kind of ripped off.

cowm007
Feb 9, 2008, 12:30 AM
Yea, looks like the actual disk is 55.9 gb and not just the system partition. Diskutil's output indeed shows that the disk is just 56gb, so there's no hidden OS partition or anything (Also unlikely since a Leopard install disk is around 7gb).

For comparison purposes, I have a 500GB hard drive, but the actual size is about 465GB which makes sense once you do the math:
Marketing GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes
Real GB = 1,073,741,824 bytes (1024 B in a KB, 1024 KB in a MB, 1024 MB in a GB)

Marketing Capacity = 500,000,000,000 bytes
Real capacity = 465,660,000,000 bytes (500,000,000,000 / 1,073,741,824)

So 56gb from 64 is kinda sketchy. Especially when you're paying such a premium for the SSD drive. Why must they continue with these B.S. games of 1000 vs 1024 bytes to describe sizes?

acfusion29
Feb 9, 2008, 12:34 AM
So Safari, Mail, iChat, Calendar, iTunes etc. are supposed to take up no space? :rolleyes:

That 4GB went towards the OS and the Apps installed.

cowm007
Feb 9, 2008, 12:42 AM
So by this math, 64GB = 64,000,000,000 bytes. If you convert that gigabytes it should be 59.6GB. Why is the capacity in Disk Utility showing 55.5GB? Is this a 60GB SSD drive? I know people have complained about similar issues before (see here: http://forums.ilounge.com/archive/index.php/t-132092.html) but I don't understand the 4GB discrepancy (59.6GB vs 55.5GB).

I hate to say it, but the drive's actual capacity would be quoted by the manufacturer as 60Gb instead of 64Gb when using the 1,000,000,000 bytes per gigabyte conversion. So something's definitely strange and worth calling Apple about.

whozurdaddy
Feb 9, 2008, 01:49 AM
I've done a reinstall (using the sticky here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=427768)). The starting capacity of the drive is 55.9 GB.

I really do think there's something to this. I posted a message on Apple here (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6540875)), but I didn't really get anywhere.

xUKHCx
Feb 9, 2008, 06:29 AM
I've done a reinstall (using the sticky here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=427768)). The starting capacity of the drive is 55.9 GB.

I'd phone apple about this and see what they have to say.

Beliyaal
Feb 14, 2008, 05:16 AM
The plot thickens. In the anandtech review his Samsung disk not purchased from Apple has 59.63 GB Capacity and is formatted to 59.31 GB. What do you see in your system profile?

Check screenshot at the bottom of the page (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3226&p=17)

ayeying
Feb 14, 2008, 11:52 AM
I noticed this at the stores too. The MacBook Air's SSD drive is only 55.9GB, which is bascially a 60GB hdd (55.9GB usable)

lewisozz
Feb 14, 2008, 01:47 PM
That bad of apple to advertise a fake size of the HD or SDD !!!! Why cant they show the real size of the HD or SSD !!!!:apple::mad:

ViperrepiV
Feb 14, 2008, 04:21 PM
class action lawsuit?

whozurdaddy
Feb 14, 2008, 11:28 PM
It's definitely a different drive. My drive is listed as a MCCOE64GEMPP with a capacity of 55.9 GB and Anand's is a SAMSUNG PZA064 SSD with a capacity of 59.63 GB.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/122/driveez5.th.png (http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=driveez5.png&s=1)

I'll call Apple tomorrow. I don't want to whine here, but this is BS. Every gig counts when you're talking about an SSD drive. I paid for a 64GB drive and Apple sold me a 60GB drive.

profiteor
Feb 15, 2008, 02:21 AM
From the Samsung Semiconductor info page on the MBA drive:

Drive Capacity
Unformatted Capacity 64GB
User-Addressable Sectors 125,045,424
Bytes per Sector 512

= 59.63GiB (powers of 2 GB, what your OS sees)

There's an Apple Diagnostic Test accessible via D at boot without using the DVD... but I'm sure that either lives in EFI or the EFI partition. Very small. Not 4GB. Makes me wonder if Apple implemented a 10% rewrite area, or something.

OS X does not use a swap partition.

Half tempted to hack into EFI and see what it thinks of the drive.

Beliyaal
Feb 15, 2008, 03:52 AM
If apple have implemented performance enhancements for random writes by using the space i will forgive them.

For information about how it could work check out this:
http://managedflash.com/technology/solution.htm

We should be able to tell with if they have done this by random write benchmarks.

Mactagonist
Feb 15, 2008, 08:39 AM
I am glad you are still persuing this. It is very odd.

dbell
Feb 15, 2008, 06:36 PM
If you look at the opened SSD drive there are 12 chips.

http://images.appleinsider.com/mbaface-080211-1.gif

I've never seen or heard of a 5.333 GB chip.

It's more likely they are 5.0 GB each and the drive is actually 60GB.

izibo
Feb 15, 2008, 06:59 PM
Flash memory isn't perfect. Some of the bits will get "stuck" after time. I am guessing that the extra 4gb is sequestered as some sort of fall-back when a bad bit is discovered. That way, you never know the difference...

Beliyaal
Feb 18, 2008, 07:58 AM
If you buy a 64 GB drive it should make 64 GB available. All other flash drives in the market already have reserved space and still delivers the number of bytes promised.

As stated the Anandtech review the drive makes available 64 billion bytes as it should be. I'm guessing this will lead to class action if Apple doesn't have a really good explanation.

Schmoe0013
Feb 18, 2008, 08:06 AM
Flash memory isn't perfect. Some of the bits will get "stuck" after time. I am guessing that the extra 4gb is sequestered as some sort of fall-back when a bad bit is discovered. That way, you never know the difference...

I'm sorry, but this is full of inaccuracies... I am too tired right now to comment, but if you are talking about using 4 gigs of bits as a parody bit? also, "stuck" bits over time? please explain what you mean, because at first glance, i didn't know how to interpret that, because really, it means nothing... :o

econ-mit
Feb 19, 2008, 01:23 PM
I am also annoyed at this and just wanted to add my voice of discontent to this thread. My Air has a 55.58G capacity. With the OS and apps pre-installed my free space started at 37G. Needless to say, every giga counts when you are this low and I feel we need an explanation for these ~4G that seem missing.

Right now, it does seem that the most plausible explanation is that this is not really a 64G drive but something closer to a 60G. (If that photo posted above provides the clue.) That is not what we paid for. :(

Let us also remember that Steve Jobs when he introduced the Air declared that the SSD was pricey but "super fast". I trusted him enough to put up the $$$ for it. Given the benchmarks, I think that statement was also a bit of a stretch, and perhaps even fair to say that it was misleading. Some might even say false advertising? I don't know, I could still be happy with my SSD for its higher durability, but now that I feel slightly cheated out of a few Gigs..

I hope we get to the bottom of this. Please let me know if anyone finds anything out.

krye
Feb 19, 2008, 01:38 PM
If you look at the opened SSD drive there are 12 chips.

http://images.appleinsider.com/mbaface-080211-1.gif

I've never seen or heard of a 5.333 GB chip.

It's more likely they are 5.0 GB each and the drive is actually 60GB.

If you knew Binary then you'd know that a 5G chip doesn't exist.

whozurdaddy
Feb 19, 2008, 02:03 PM
I apologize for the delay in this post. I had a reply typed up which I thought I submitted but I guess it got lost at some point.

I posted a new thread on the Apple forum here (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1397168) (the "pre-release" MBA forum is now closed) but it hasn't gone anywhere.

I called Apple support on 2/15. I spoke to someone named Brad. Since he wasn't that knowledgeable when it came to SSD so he got in touch with a product specialist. Brad was very friendly, but unfortunately he didn't have an answer. He said he found an internal KB article that stated 55.6GB was the 'correct' capacity of the drive but there was no explanation why. I gave him the URL to Anand's review along with my Apple forum post. He said he would open a ticket and include the URL's I gave him. So far I haven't heard anything.

profiteor
Feb 19, 2008, 02:47 PM
I'm sorry, but this is full of inaccuracies... I am too tired right now to comment, but if you are talking about using 4 gigs of bits as a parody bit? also, "stuck" bits over time? please explain what you mean, because at first glance, i didn't know how to interpret that, because really, it means nothing... :o

Not to speak for someone else, but...

I think izibo meant that these are portions of the drive reserved to implement sector remapping/byte remapping when bits fail. This is standard practice in rotational hard drives, except that this is typically done with media NOT part of the advertised size (for example, advertised 160GB drives made with 200GB platters have 40GB of remap available; this is an example, rarely do vendors waste that much space).

I don't think flash drives have built-in remap, since they are advertised at a power of 2, and chips come as a power of 2, and that would be extra cost to add more chips. Slightly shaky logic, but I'm going with it.

mtk75
Feb 19, 2008, 04:25 PM
If you look at the opened SSD drive there are 12 chips.

http://images.appleinsider.com/mbaface-080211-1.gif

I've never seen or heard of a 5.333 GB chip.

It's more likely they are 5.0 GB each and the drive is actually 60GB.

It's actually much more likely that there are 4 more flash chips, a controller chip, and a lot of passive components on the side of the circuit board that we can't see in the photo.

My guess is that each chip is 4 GB of usable space. The parity for dealing with dead bits is actually built into each flash page. The pages are 512 bytes with 16 byte parity sections built on to the back. The erase blocks are 32 pages. Sometimes the erase blocks go bad, so there need to be a certain number of them held back for replacement of bad blocks.

I'm certain that there are also many blocks held back to make the wear leveling algorithms easier. Depending on how the algorithm works, I would bet on erase blocks being used for multiple files, so there may be a need for the drive to move things around sometimes in order to delete other information.

BTW, you don't need to take my word for all this, but I do program embedded firmware which uses these parts directly, very similar stuff to the controller chip in this design...

-Matt

Consultant
Feb 19, 2008, 04:50 PM
Let us also remember that Steve Jobs when he introduced the Air declared that the SSD was pricey but "super fast". I trusted him enough to put up the $$$ for it. Given the benchmarks, I think that statement was also a bit of a stretch, and perhaps even fair to say that it was misleading. Some might even say false advertising? I don't know, I could still be happy with my SSD for its higher durability, but now that I feel slightly cheated out of a few Gigs..

Yes, SSD has fast random access. Benchmarks:
http://www.barefeats.com/macair1.html

cowm007
Feb 19, 2008, 09:41 PM
...but if you are talking about using 4 gigs of bits as a parody bit?...

I think you meant parity bit. A parody bit is something a comedian would do :D.

econ-mit
Feb 19, 2008, 11:15 PM
Yes, SSD has fast random access. Benchmarks:
http://www.barefeats.com/macair1.html

Yes, but write is so much lower than in typical real world use the gains have been reported as small and even negative for some tasks.

To be clear, I'm not saying I am totally unhappy with an SSD, there are pros and cons. But I think that, given the high cost, the advertisement of the true benefits could have been a bit more informative and precise.

Maybe I am being Utopian about what a company might disclose about its own products. But everyone here is a fan of Apple in some ways and believes Apple should be better than other computer makers on many dimensions, and that could include transparency about its products and their performance.

ViperrepiV
Feb 19, 2008, 11:33 PM
I am happy with my air, but i wouldn't mind a real explanation

Anonymous Freak
Feb 20, 2008, 12:23 AM
The capacity does seem a little low, I mean it theoretically should have at least CLOSE to 68 719 476 736 bytes of storage possible (Flash is memory like any other, manufactured in binary multiples, so that is 2^36.) Although 6% for parity might be about right. (Remember, flash memory isn't perfect, there are always a few bits here and there that are bad right out of the factory; and they reserve 'spare' bits for when more go bad later, along with for protecting against data going bad.)

As for 'usable space', I just installed Vista Ultimate x64 on a system with a 40 GB hard drive. After applying all the updates, I only had 16 GB of free space. That's just the OS. No iApps or anything. I flushed out all the update cache files, the hibernation file, etc; then installed Flight Simulator X and the Acceleration Pack. I now have too little empty hard drive space to re-create the hibernation file.

whozurdaddy
Feb 20, 2008, 01:38 AM
I think you guys are missing the pictures from Anand's review. Look at page 14 (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3226&p=14). Note the model number of the drive is MCCOE64GEMPP. Now look at page 17 (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3226&p=17). Compare his System Profiler screenshot to what you see in System Profiler.

I have yet to find the reason for this 4GB discrepancy.

Beliyaal
Feb 20, 2008, 07:09 PM
I got my Air today, and checked the drive size in Linux and it displays 60 billion bytes there as well.

I didn't find any good random write benchmark in Windows or OSX, so I guess I will just have to write one myself.

Anonymous Freak
Feb 20, 2008, 07:44 PM
I got my Air today, and checked the drive size in Linux and it displays 60 billion bytes there as well.

I didn't find any good random write benchmark in Windows or OSX, so I guess I will just have to write one myself.

Depends on your definition of "good"...

There's Xbench for OS X, which has a small random read/write part. And there are lots of 'heavy duty' benchmark programs for Windows that do as good of disk benchmarks as you can possibly imagine.

It's just too bad that the cross-platform GeekBench doesn't have a disk benchmark. It would be nice to see how different OSes handle disk access differently on the same hardware.

dbell
Feb 21, 2008, 11:36 AM
I think you guys are missing the pictures from Anand's review. Look at page 14 (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3226&p=14). Note the model number of the drive is MCCOE64GEMPP. Now look at page 17 (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3226&p=17). Compare his System Profiler screenshot to what you see in System Profiler.

I have yet to find the reason for this 4GB discrepancy.

That sure is strange. Mine says 55.9GB his 64GB after market Samsung Drive says 59.63, which is more in line with what I'd expect.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/mac/macbookair/review/SSDsize.jpg


at $15.60 a gig, I figure Apple owes each of us $62.44.

Malcster
Feb 21, 2008, 03:56 PM
I know this doesn't help much, but apple do now have a page saying the capacity is correct.. but as is apple's way on these things doesn't offer any explanation.

Link (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=307451)

Beliyaal
Feb 22, 2008, 06:12 PM
Ok, so I have created a program to measure random write performance, and the Air SSD is a slouch as expected.

First I tried the benchmark on my MacPro on a RAID-0 array with 3xRaptor 150GB drives:

Write IOP: 928.1 ops/sec Write Speed: 475198.9223 bytes/sec Average service time: 1.0774 ms
Read IOP: 178.7 ops/sec Read Speed: 91499.2862 bytes/sec Average service time: 5.5957 ms


The MacBook Air SSD is not the slowest by SSD standards, but it's not very fast:

Write IOP: 35.9 ops/sec Write Speed: 18361.3035 bytes/sec Average service time: 27.8847 ms
Read IOP: 3146.7 ops/sec Read Speed: 1611094.5523 bytes/sec Average service time: 0.3178 ms


I also tested my Corsair Flash Voyager 32 GB and got an explanation why it was so slow when I tried to run Vista from it (took maybe an half hour to boot):

Write IOP: 2.1 ops/sec Write Speed: 1079.2030 bytes/sec Average service time: 474.4242 ms
Read IOP: 1286.5 ops/sec Read Speed: 658698.9979 bytes/sec Average service time: 0.7773 ms


These results confirms that the 4 missing GB:s is not used to increase random write performance. I think Apple is in real trouble here.

The new Mtron drive should be much faster judging by their old drives that can do 110 randorm write IOP:s per second. 120 MB/sec read speed and 100 MB/sec write speed isn't bad either.

whozurdaddy
Feb 22, 2008, 11:24 PM
Good info once again Beliyaal. Thanks.

alpinadvl
Feb 23, 2008, 08:45 AM
at $15.60 a gig, I figure Apple owes each of us $62.44.



I hate to say this, because I hate lawsuits - but I really feel Apple is responsible for this - this is clearly false advertising. Even the benchmarks for the SSD are "plus / minus" - there is no "obvious" winner in terms of speed between the two.

I would rather have the correct drive given to me from the onset - as advertised / promised - than this stop gap, pricey model.

Other than this I am satisfied with the MBA (I dont regret it) - but if all these reviews were clearer, including the available capacity - I would have reconsidered the drive for sure. (And no, I cannot return it anymore)

-alf

PelleB
Feb 25, 2008, 12:23 PM
It sounds like certain MBA's have a problem in the way they were formatted from the factory.

Some MacBook Air computers may show hard disk drive (HDD) and Solid State Drive (SSD) capacity below expected levels. When using the MacBook Air for the first time, customers may see a disk full error message or an HDD/SSD capacity that is lower than normal.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=307479

The fix mentioned in the link is to boot up from installation disks and reformat.

Can anyone confirm if this indeed fixes the problem and brings the capacity up to 60GB.

Beliyaal
Feb 25, 2008, 05:33 PM
Nope, any amount of formatting or erasing the drive will not work as it makes 60 billion bytes available.

I like how they added a disclaimer that the article about how hard drive space is calculated does not apply to the Air. :)

If you do not have an SSD, please refer to this article for a detailed description of why the discrepancy occurs with HDD.

ViperrepiV
Feb 25, 2008, 06:54 PM
ugh this is so annoying. just need an explanation here....or a replacement drive with the actual space.

Bambeezer
Feb 26, 2008, 12:26 PM
Anyone tried the Apple fix in the document above?

I have a SSD MBA that should arrive any day now. I'm anxious to try it out.

mspman
Feb 26, 2008, 12:32 PM
I'm a little :mad:. I mean, this is a 15% discrepancy between the stated value and the actual value. I work in IT - do you realize what would happen if I ordered 1TB of disk space but was only delivered 850GB? I'd be returning it!

whozurdaddy
Feb 27, 2008, 08:24 PM
Anyone tried the Apple fix in the document above?

I have a SSD MBA that should arrive any day now. I'm anxious to try it out.

The "fix" has been tried by multiple people including myself. Reinstalling Leopard does nothing. The capacity shown during the Disk Utility reformat is 55.9GB (60,011,642,880 bytes). Of course it's nice to remove the 3.4 GB of printer drivers... but it doesn't change the capacity of the drive.

clayj
Feb 27, 2008, 08:33 PM
The "fix" has been tried by multiple people including myself. Reinstalling Leopard does nothing. The capacity shown during the Disk Utility reformat is 55.9GB (60,011,642,880 bytes). Of course it's nice to remove the 3.4 GB of printer drivers... but it doesn't change the capacity of the drive.Yep, he's correct. The first thing I did when I unboxed my MBA was to reformat the drive and reinstall OS X clean, which saved me about 7 GB of disk space. The SSD formatted drive capacity did not change.

Beliyaal
Mar 9, 2008, 06:57 PM
Anyone heard anything new about this issue?

maxrobertson
Mar 9, 2008, 07:49 PM
So Safari, Mail, iChat, Calendar, iTunes etc. are supposed to take up no space? :rolleyes:

That 4GB went towards the OS and the Apps installed.

Do you even have any idea what the original poster is asking? You're not helping anyone by being smug and ignorant.

whozurdaddy
Mar 9, 2008, 11:36 PM
I'll call Apple again. The SSD Air has been out a month now. Maybe tech support has more information.

akm3
Apr 24, 2008, 04:48 PM
I can't believe this issue isn't *exploding*. If people will sue over iMac 20" screens only having a zillion colors instead of a brazillion, I'm sure a missing 5gigs on an already VERY tight space constraint AND misleading advertising should be causing an absolute frenzy.

It seems Apple is just getting a pass on this one.

aristobrat
Apr 24, 2008, 06:00 PM
IMO, the difference between is that Apple made specific claims about the 20" iMac screens that the hardware obviously wasn't capable of performing.

With the MBA, they make no specific claims about formatted capacity. All I've seen them say is "Actual formatted capacity less".

krye
Apr 28, 2008, 09:46 AM
It's definitely a different drive. My drive is listed as a MCCOE64GEMPP with a capacity of 55.9 GB and Anand's is a SAMSUNG PZA064 SSD with a capacity of 59.63 GB.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/122/driveez5.th.png (http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=driveez5.png&s=1)

I'll call Apple tomorrow. I don't want to whine here, but this is BS. Every gig counts when you're talking about an SSD drive. I paid for a 64GB drive and Apple sold me a 60GB drive.

...never mind. I'm lazy today.

Beliyaal
Apr 29, 2008, 01:34 AM
IMO, the difference between is that Apple made specific claims about the 20" iMac screens that the hardware obviously wasn't capable of performing.

With the MBA, they make no specific claims about formatted capacity. All I've seen them say is "Actual formatted capacity less".

The issue here isn't formatted capacity. The unformatted capacity is 60 GB not 64 GB. If some news site would just point out this issue I'm sure it would explode. The fact that the CPU doesn't run at more than 1.2 GHz for more than seconds without disabling the power throttling is also of the same magnitude.

whozurdaddy
Apr 29, 2008, 01:43 AM
I've been told by Apple multiple times that this is "normal". I'm not sure what else to do.

Mactagonist
Apr 29, 2008, 07:26 AM
I've been told by Apple multiple times that this is "normal". I'm not sure what else to do.

Explain to them that it isnt. Do the math with them on the phone or email so they can see why it isnt normal. If they dont have any answer then go up a level and do the same with their boss.

Or skip to the top and email steve@mac.com

RichardF
Aug 8, 2008, 09:57 AM
I just received my MBA (1.8/ SSD) yesterday and saw this thread today while researching where my "missing space" is.

This thread deserves a bump.

alanmoon
Apr 15, 2009, 11:41 AM
I've had the same issue; referb mac book air and only getting 55.9GB.

Spoke to the support department and they referred me to:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2734?viewlocale=en_US

Manage to get escalated and felt that something could have been done if it wasn't a referb but as it was managed to get £100 credit put back on to my account - better than a poke in the eye and no hassle really...

akm3
Apr 15, 2009, 12:27 PM
We now understand why this is.

SSD's not only take the hit in that capacity is advertised in base 10 but formats in binary base 2, but they also hold a percentage (generally around 5-10%) of the SSD cells in reserve to help with cells that go bad, wear leveling, random writes, etc.

All SSD's do this and you have the capacity but it isn't available to you.

ayeying
Apr 15, 2009, 04:16 PM
We now understand why this is.

SSD's not only take the hit in that capacity is advertised in base 10 but formats in binary base 2, but they also hold a percentage (generally around 5-10%) of the SSD cells in reserve to help with cells that go bad, wear leveling, random writes, etc.

All SSD's do this and you have the capacity but it isn't available to you.

Bingo. My 256GB ssd is only 234GB formatted. its technically missing 2GB from actual value. If you add up the binary, it comes out to a "254GB" ssd.

whozurdaddy
Apr 15, 2009, 11:21 PM
Good post akm3, BUT that still doesn't explain why Anand's drive showed a 60GB capacity.

The plot thickens. In the anandtech review his Samsung disk not purchased from Apple has 59.63 GB Capacity and is formatted to 59.31 GB. What do you see in your system profile?

Check screenshot at the bottom of the page (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3226&p=17)

Not that I care any more... I've moved on from the Air, but still it's strange.

akm3
Apr 18, 2009, 04:29 PM
Good post akm3, BUT that still doesn't explain why Anand's drive showed a 60GB capacity.



Not that I care any more... I've moved on from the Air, but still it's strange.

Likely he had a slightly different firmware on his Samsung drive and they tweaked it slightly before going mass market.