2007-08 NBA season discussion

[aloofman]

I looked around and realized there didn't seem to be a thread for the current NBA season. (If there is and I missed it, I'm happy to close this one and join it.) Of course we're about halfway into the season already, but I figured we could jump right into it anyway. :cool:

Potential topics: What will the rest of the West do in response to the Gasol trade? What about today's rumors that Shaq might go to Phoenix? Who else could get traded before the trading deadline at the end of the month? Can the Celtics keep their momentum going through the playoffs? Will someone in New York finally fire Isiah Thomas?

Oh, and go Lakers! :D

[joekix]

go lakers!!!

this friday should lock up the mvp for kobe if they can pull out the win. cp3 vs.kb24... can't wait.

[Badandy]

I love the NBA, huge fan.

I'll preface my posts with some info about my preferences.

Former Team: Lakers (I like them alright, but I don't like Kobe)
Most Skilled Player: Kobe
Best Player: LeBron
Most Valuable Player: Chris Paul
Favorite Players (currently playing): Allen Iverson, Dwyane Wade, LeBron
Favorite Player ever: Michael Jordan
Most Annoying Comparison: Kobe to MJ. Not even close.
Best Team this year: Celtics
Best Team in the west: Spurs
Best team next year: Lakers


OK, so now that that's out of the way, I was really sad about Enver (they have no D) losing last night. To the Sonics no less, what an embarassment.


BTW, in all my love of the NBA, I refuse to watch a Finals with the Spurs in it. Cutting my fingernails is more entertaining than watching the Spurs.

[aloofman]

I do want Kobe to win an MVP eventually, but I'm a firm believer that it shouldn't be a career achievement award a la Karl Malone in the 1990s. With that in mind, if the Hornets finish ahead of the Lakers in the West -- and maybe even if they don't -- I think Chris Paul should win it. When you look at the supporting cast that the two players have to work with, it's no contest. The Lakers have a better overall team. Except for David West, who is the least-noticed star in the league right now, their starters are one-dimensional. Chandler can rebound. Stojakavic can shoot from outside. And that's about it. The fact that Paul even has them in contention is really impressive.

Denver is a really frustrating team to watch. You get the feeling they have only a narrow window to work with because they can't afford to pay Iverson, Melo, AND Kenyon Martin for too much longer. It's a toss-up whether the team will show up on any given night.

The crazy thing is that it's unclear which seed I'd even want the Lakers to end up with because it depends on who they'd meet in the first round. I feel like they could beat Dallas or Houston or Utah. But San Antonio, Phoenix, or Golden State would be trouble.

That Portland could be really, really good within a year or two. That is a seriously athletic team.

[Teh Don Ditty]

Geez, to think that I thought that the NHL Season thread was bad.

Go Knicks! Oh. Right.

[fotografica]

Go Knicks!

LMFAO!!!..Can anybody explain to me how in the world Isiah Thomas keeps getting jobs as an exec or head coach :confused: He must have a file cabinet full of pictures or something....

[Teh Don Ditty]

LMFAO!!!..Can anybody explain to me how in the world Isiah Thomas keeps getting jobs as an exec or head coach :confused: He must have a file cabinet full of pictures or something....

I'm not really a basketball fan, FTR.

Isiah should be removed and the Dolans should surrender ownership. It's like the Reign of Terror.

I think you're right, he must have something to blackmail everyone with.

[Badandy]

The crazy thing is that it's unclear which seed I'd even want the Lakers to end up with because it depends on who they'd meet in the first round. I feel like they could beat Dallas or Houston or Utah. But San Antonio, Phoenix, or Golden State would be trouble.


Phoenix, with Shaq. Uh-oh for the Lakers. And uh-oh next year. Shaq is going to lose 40 pounds and be incredible. I just put that on the record, I'll refer back to this next season. Utah is seriously good, I would not want to face them in the first round. I think that Golden State might be a sweep, I haven't been that impressed with them except for Monte Ellis. And everyone should be afraid of the Spurs. After all, it's easy to score on opponents after you put them to sleep.

[joekix]

I do want Kobe to win an MVP eventually, but I'm a firm believer that it shouldn't be a career achievement award a la Karl Malone in the 1990s. With that in mind, if the Hornets finish ahead of the Lakers in the West -- and maybe even if they don't -- I think Chris Paul should win it. When you look at the supporting cast that the two players have to work with, it's no contest. The Lakers have a better overall team. Except for David West, who is the least-noticed star in the league right now, their starters are one-dimensional. Chandler can rebound. Stojakavic can shoot from outside. And that's about it. The fact that Paul even has them in contention is really impressive.

Denver is a really frustrating team to watch. You get the feeling they have only a narrow window to work with because they can't afford to pay Iverson, Melo, AND Kenyon Martin for too much longer. It's a toss-up whether the team will show up on any given night.

The crazy thing is that it's unclear which seed I'd even want the Lakers to end up with because it depends on who they'd meet in the first round. I feel like they could beat Dallas or Houston or Utah. But San Antonio, Phoenix, or Golden State would be trouble.

That Portland could be really, really good within a year or two. That is a seriously athletic team.

Take (all-star) David West off that team and imo, they don't play 500 in the west. Kobe can play 500 ball with Kwame. WITH FREAKING KWAME!!! :D
C'mon, David West & Tyson Chandler are having career years. CP is good, but those guys are having monster years. The Lakers are hated and every team gets up for them. Who cares about the Hornets? All the injuries, and their still at the top. Kobe has a busted pinky, Derek's playing with ligament damage in his foot, bynum, ariza... blah, blah, blah.

I guess by your logic, Paul will be MVP. I mean Nash won it 2 years in a row and Paul has put up better numbers than Nash in his MVP seasons. I guess as long as Lebron doesn't win, it's fair. The year Kobe averaged 35 and had 81 surely was an MVP type season, but sadly he came in third. That Laker team went 47-35. That team started Kwame, Smush, & fLuke. The fact Kobe took that team so far is mind boggling. That year, he really should have won MVP. Chris Paul is deserving this year, but I believe Kobe won't win 'cause he's hated by the media so much, not because Chris was better. That's it. Kobe will the important MVP award... the finals MVP.

[joekix]

Phoenix, with Shaq. Uh-oh for the Lakers. And uh-oh next year. Shaq is going to lose 40 pounds and be incredible. I just put that on the record, I'll refer back to this next season. Utah is seriously good, I would not want to face them in the first round. I think that Golden State might be a sweep, I haven't been that impressed with them except for Monte Ellis. And everyone should be afraid of the Spurs. After all, it's easy to score on opponents after you put them to sleep.

Love Shaq 'cause he was a Laker, but how do you average 3 turnovers when you only average 8 shots a game.

One other thing... I can't stand how Shaq gets lazy wherever he goes. The fact you said he'll lose 40 lbs for next season proves that point. When he left L.A. he was huge, but he was in shape in Miami that fall. That irked me so much. Why didn't he do that when he was in L.A?

[Badandy]

C'mon, David West & Tyson Chandler are having career years. CP is good, but those guys are having monster years.

Want to guess why?
psssst. it's cp3

[joekix]

Want to guess why?
psssst. it's cp3

offensively, cp makes chandler better cause of the setups, but defensively, how does cp make him better. the guy can straight up ball. he's a good player.

david west is an all-star on any team. down the stretch of games, he seems like the go to guy. i dunno, i don't get to see them play that often.

also peja was a former all-star. he has a good team around him. he has talent.

i think picking up bonzi was a great move for them. that guy has issues, but the dude can ball.

[Badandy]

Well, this is a long shot, but Chandler could be dominating the defensive end because of his offensive success. He knows CP will reward him if he runs the court after good defensive plays. Also, with Peja: Peja has been terrible the past couple years. He had a few good ones with the Kings and he's been a nobody since then. Now he's having a great year.

I don't know who should win MVP. Stats say LeBron, skill says Kobe, value to the team says CP.

[joekix]

i agree...

as long as lebron doesn't win, i'm fine with whatever. it just wouldn't be fair. it seems you're a hornet fan. i'm glad byron scott (ex-laker) is having success with you guys.

however, come friday, i hope the lakers thump the hornets. :)

[Badandy]

I actually am not a Hornets fan, I just really like point guards, the good ones are so talented because they are usually undersized but still doing incredible things in a league full of 6 footers.

I'm from southern california, but i ceased to be a laker fan when shaq left considering i don't like kobe's personality or attitude very much. i definitely wouldn't be mad if they won it though, it's not like i hate them. i really want the denver nuggets to do well, but that's looking like a longshot.

[joekix]

I actually am not a Hornets fan, I just really like point guards, the good ones are so talented because they are usually undersized but still doing incredible things in a league full of 6 footers.

I'm from southern california, but i ceased to be a laker fan when shaq left considering i don't like kobe's personality or attitude very much. i definitely wouldn't be mad if they won it though, it's not like i hate them. i really want the denver nuggets to do well, but that's looking like a longshot.

kobe...

it always seems people either love him or hate him. that's kind of sad you stopped being a laker fan when shaq let. it worked out in the long run, don't you think? don't get me wrong, i wish he stayed, but look what happens to him. he gets fat lazy, and his ego is just as whacked out as kobe's. i hated how he talked bad about miami when he left. he's the one that got all fat and out of shape again. whatever. i'll always like shaq 'cause of what he did for the lakers, but the guys work ethic just sucks.

denver is really hard to figure out, but it's obvious their lack of defense will get them no where. it's weird because when george karl was in seattle, didn't he emphasize defense a lot? that seattle game last nite must have been great to watch.

[twoodcc]

well i'll jump in this thread.

i really like Allen Iverson, so of course i'm really hoping Denver makes the playoffs. they do have some talent, but they don't always play like a team.

it's a tight race though for that last playoff spot

[Sky Blue]

I'm hoping:

- Lakers or Spurs don't win. For the Lakers to go out early would be fun fun fun.

- Golden State make the playoffs and Denver don't.

- Isiah gets kicked out at the end of the season.

[nomar383]

Im in Laker land trying not to get jumped when I say "Go Suns" ever so quietly :). BTW the Suns have been to more playoff games and more game 7s then any other team and have NEVER won a title. EVER. What a bummer

[twoodcc]

i wouldn't mind seeing the Suns win. just not the Spurs

[Sky Blue]

i wouldn't mind seeing the Suns win. just not the Spurs

I would love to see the Suns win.

[joekix]

go lakers!!!

this friday should lock up the mvp for kobe if they can pull out the win. cp3 vs.kb24... can't wait.

well, friday has passed and the lakers not only won on friday nite, but demolished the spurs today. now the lakers are the 1 seed. what a crazy weekend!

[decksnap]

I think the Celtics are going to be unstoppable to be honest. They are so fun to watch now.

[twoodcc]

I think the Celtics are going to be unstoppable to be honest. They are so fun to watch now.

as long as they beat the pistons. i can't stand them.


Denver is one win away from the playoffs!

[Badandy]

Lakers in the one seed, wow.

Guess who they have first round? That's right, Allen Iverson and the Nuggets. Let's see if he can pull off another Game 1 2001 NBA finals on 'em.

[Sky Blue]

Guess who they have first round?

no one yet cos the seeding isn't final?

[twoodcc]

Lakers in the one seed, wow.

Guess who they have first round? That's right, Allen Iverson and the Nuggets. Let's see if he can pull off another Game 1 2001 NBA finals on 'em.

well, the Nuggets are 1 win away from getting in the playoffs.

i sure hope Iverson can pull off more than 1 win this time. but i hear Carmelo got arrested. let's hope he's able to play

[aloofman]

Lakers in the one seed, wow.

Guess who they have first round? That's right, Allen Iverson and the Nuggets. Let's see if he can pull off another Game 1 2001 NBA finals on 'em.

Honestly, I would much rather play the Nuggets than the Warriors. Denver often ignores defense and occasionally just forgets to play. It seems unlikely to me that Karl will suddenly get them to play well when they've underachieved all season. Golden State, on the other hand, is a crazy team that imposes their style on other teams and is streaky enough to steal a game or two from any team in the league.

I'd be fine with a repeat of the 2001 Finals. The Sixers needed a brilliant effort from Iverson to win even one game.

[joekix]

Honestly, I would much rather play the Nuggets than the Warriors. Denver often ignores defense and occasionally just forgets to play. It seems unlikely to me that Karl will suddenly get them to play well when they've underachieved all season. Golden State, on the other hand, is a crazy team that imposes their style on other teams and is streaky enough to steal a game or two from any team in the league.

I'd be fine with a repeat of the 2001 Finals. The Sixers needed a brilliant effort from Iverson to win even one game.

that was only game the lakers lost that post season. the best post season ever. my favorite moment in that games was when a.i. busted a 3 right in front of tyron lue, and then stepped over him because he was on the ground. even as a laker fan, i loved that moment.

i'm so glad denver beat houston yesterday because that makes it possible for the lakers to get the 1 seed with a win tommorow. i think carmello was happy too 'cause he must have partied a little hard last nite to end up with a DUI today.

GO LAKERS!!!

[Badandy]

Honestly, I would much rather play the Nuggets than the Warriors.

I definitely would not. AI + Melo + Kenyon Martin = bad for other teams.

Denver often ignores defense and occasionally just forgets to play.


Yes, but what if they remember to play? They have talent.

Golden State, on the other hand, is a crazy team that imposes their style on other teams and is streaky enough to steal a game or two from any team in the league.

They have no heart this year and barely even want to win. They would get swept.

I'd be fine with a repeat of the 2001 Finals. The Sixers needed a brilliant effort from Iverson to win even one game.

The Lakers were UNSTOPPABLE in 2001. Game 1 win with an incredible effort from Iverson was crazy, even though I definitely wanted the Lakers to win.

[twoodcc]

Honestly, I would much rather play the Nuggets than the Warriors. Denver often ignores defense and occasionally just forgets to play. It seems unlikely to me that Karl will suddenly get them to play well when they've underachieved all season. Golden State, on the other hand, is a crazy team that imposes their style on other teams and is streaky enough to steal a game or two from any team in the league.

I'd be fine with a repeat of the 2001 Finals. The Sixers needed a brilliant effort from Iverson to win even one game.

that was only game the lakers lost that post season. the best post season ever. my favorite moment in that games was when a.i. busted a 3 right in front of tyron lue, and then stepped over him because he was on the ground. even as a laker fan, i loved that moment.

i'm so glad denver beat houston yesterday because that makes it possible for the lakers to get the 1 seed with a win tommorow. i think carmello was happy too 'cause he must have partied a little hard last nite to end up with a DUI today.

GO LAKERS!!!

i really think denver has a chance at the lakers, as long as they have carmelo. you forget that Marcus Camby was the defensive player of the year last year, and could get it again this year. and Kenyon Martin isn't too bad at defensive either. and Iverson is great at stealing the ball.

i'm just saying. Denver has potential

[Badandy]

i really think denver has a chance at the lakers, as long as they have carmelo. you forget that Marcus Camby was the defensive player of the year last year, and could get it again this year. and Kenyon Martin isn't too bad at defensive either. and Iverson is great at stealing the ball.

i'm just saying. Denver has potential


Let's be clear. Denver has potential, but it ain't on defense. If they're gonna win, it's because it will be a very high scoring game. Any arguments that Denver actually can play defense is absolutely wrong...they can't. Marcus Camby is horrible on defense (he only blocks shots, he lets people get by him every time down the court), AI is good on a smaller player, and the rest of them are just plain bad. Maybe they don't try, but I doubt it. They just aren't a defensive team.

EDIT: And I just don't know who I'd root for. I grew up a Lakers fan, live in L.A., but Allen Iverson is my favorite player who is still playing.

[joekix]

Let's be clear. Denver has potential, but it ain't on defense. If they're gonna win, it's because it will be a very high scoring game. Any arguments that Denver actually can play defense is absolutely wrong...they can't. Marcus Camby is horrible on defense (he only blocks shots, he lets people get by him every time down the court), AI is good on a smaller player, and the rest of them are just plain bad. Maybe they don't try, but I doubt it. They just aren't a defensive team.

EDIT: And I just don't know who I'd root for. I grew up a Lakers fan, live in L.A., but Allen Iverson is my favorite player who is still playing.

root for the lakers!!!


l.a. matches up with denver very well and for some reason, the lakers seem to own the nuggets. the warriors on the other hand, seem to confuse the lakers or something because the lakers can barely beat them. i'm glad it's nuggets and not the warriors. i can't deny iverson. that dude is a baller. j.r. smith is playing really well too.

[twoodcc]

Let's be clear. Denver has potential, but it ain't on defense. If they're gonna win, it's because it will be a very high scoring game. Any arguments that Denver actually can play defense is absolutely wrong...they can't. Marcus Camby is horrible on defense (he only blocks shots, he lets people get by him every time down the court), AI is good on a smaller player, and the rest of them are just plain bad. Maybe they don't try, but I doubt it. They just aren't a defensive team.

EDIT: And I just don't know who I'd root for. I grew up a Lakers fan, live in L.A., but Allen Iverson is my favorite player who is still playing.

say what you will, but defensive player of the year does mean something. and Camby has gotten over 20 rebounds several times. to say Camby is "horrible on defense" is absurd, when he was defensive player of the year.

they aren't a defensive team, but they have potential to play better defense than they have been, which would surprise the lakers.

Allen Iverson is my favorite player also, and that's why i'm rooting for the nuggets.

[Badandy]

say what you will, but defensive player of the year does mean something. and Camby has gotten over 20 rebounds several times. to say Camby is "horrible on defense" is absurd, when he was defensive player of the year.

20 rebounds doesn't equal good defense when the person you're guarding gets past you almost every time. He's good at rebounding, he's good at blocking shots, that's about it. Did you Denver is like 7th in the league in the defensive efficiency statistic? It means nothing.

they aren't a defensive team, but they have potential to play better defense than they have been, which would surprise the lakers.

Hopefully, I'd like this series to be long.

Allen Iverson is my favorite player also, and that's why i'm rooting for the nuggets.

The more I think about it, the more I want Allen Iverson to win a series over the Lakers. I think it would mean a lot to him and, personally, there is no one on the Lakers who I think deserves this series win more than AI.

[twoodcc]

well it's official now. the nuggets are in the playoffs

[Sky Blue]

I hope the Lakers end up playing the Mavs so I can actually root for a team in that series.

[twoodcc]

I hope the Lakers end up playing the Mavs so I can actually root for a team in that series.

well, the lakers just clinched the #1 seed last night.

[Sky Blue]

well, the lakers just clinched the #1 seed last night.

Right :rolleyes:

but the Mavs could've fallen to 8th

[twoodcc]

Right :rolleyes:

but the Mavs could've fallen to 8th

you're right. but they didn't.

[joekix]

well it's official now. the nuggets are in the playoffs

and now they are out.

i say blow that team up. iverson and anthony are ball stoppers and you don't need 2 on one team.

let's keep this thing alive...

go lakers!!!

[twoodcc]

and now they are out.

i say blow that team up. iverson and anthony are ball stoppers and you don't need 2 on one team.

let's keep this thing alive...

go lakers!!!

coming from someone who likes the lakers, who have bryant. (i'd call 81 points a ball hog)

anyways, there were some terrible calls against the suns in their last game. i guess it was too late anyways though

[Badandy]

anyways, there were some terrible calls against the suns in their last game. i guess it was too late anyways though

The Spurs are the biggest floppers the NBA has ever seen.

But no, they (the Suns) didn't deserve to win anyway. Too bad, I'm a huge fan of Shaq. Here's to hoping he loses 35 pounds and works out like crazy over the offseason like he did when he went to Miami...

[aloofman]

and now they are out.

i say blow that team up. iverson and anthony are ball stoppers and you don't need 2 on one team.


There are some people who think it would be 'melo that would be traded. That might be the better short-term move. Iverson is quite a bit older with a lot of mileage on him but, surprisingly, seems to have the better attitude. Both of them are great, but they're both finishers more than playmakers. I'm not sure either of them can learn a pass-first mentality at this point, so one of them probably has to go.

In other news it looks like the Mavs will get blown up now, something a lot of people predicted after last year's playoff collapse. I've heard a few people suggest that they should consider trading Nowitzki. Obviously it would depend on who they got for him, but Dallas desperately needs to get younger now. It's not a stretch to imagine them falling out of contention with Kidd deteriorating further, lack of draft picks, and Nowitzki their only real option on offense. Salary cap-wise, they're stuck until Kidd's contract ends in a couple years.

[twoodcc]

The Spurs are the biggest floppers the NBA has ever seen.

But no, they (the Suns) didn't deserve to win anyway. Too bad, I'm a huge fan of Shaq. Here's to hoping he loses 35 pounds and works out like crazy over the offseason like he did when he went to Miami...

you are quite right about the spurs. man i hope they lose. The suns might now have deserved to win the series, but i think they did in game 5

There are some people who think it would be 'melo that would be traded. That might be the better short-term move. Iverson is quite a bit older with a lot of mileage on him but, surprisingly, seems to have the better attitude. Both of them are great, but they're both finishers more than playmakers. I'm not sure either of them can learn a pass-first mentality at this point, so one of them probably has to go.

In other news it looks like the Mavs will get blown up now, something a lot of people predicted after last year's playoff collapse. I've heard a few people suggest that they should consider trading Nowitzki. Obviously it would depend on who they got for him, but Dallas desperately needs to get younger now. It's not a stretch to imagine them falling out of contention with Kidd deteriorating further, lack of draft picks, and Nowitzki their only real option on offense. Salary cap-wise, they're stuck until Kidd's contract ends in a couple years.

we'll see about the nuggets. yeah, people keep saying that Iverson is too old, and that he'll lose his quickness, but he just keeps producing numbers. and has anyone looked at his assists lately? he has good days and bad, but when he has 30 points and 10 assists, they almost always win.

[aloofman]

we'll see about the nuggets. yeah, people keep saying that Iverson is too old, and that he'll lose his quickness, but he just keeps producing numbers. and has anyone looked at his assists lately? he has good days and bad, but when he has 30 points and 10 assists, they almost always win.

Yeah, Iverson just keeps on going with no end in sight. On the other hand, is Denver the team he can win a championship with? In the number of years he has left? Doesn't seem likely. In fact, I'm not sure where he could. Here's an entertaining idea: what about Iverson to Golden State? Iverson can opt out, Baron Davis might not return to Oakland, and AI could put up 40 a night under Nellie.

I would go so far as to say that whenever a team's best player drops 30 and 10 on someone, that team almost always wins.

[Badandy]

That might be the better short-term move. Iverson is quite a bit older with a lot of mileage on him but, surprisingly, seems to have the better attitude.

He's always been that way.

There are a lot of players who say this, there is one player who lives it:

"I want everybody to know--I play every game like it's my last."
-Allen Iverson


Both of them are great, but they're both finishers more than playmakers. I'm not sure either of them can learn a pass-first mentality at this point, so one of them probably has to go.

I was extremely unimpressed by Melo this series. He was awful.



EDIT: With Shaq and the Suns out, and AI and the Nuggets out, I guess I have to root for a Lakers/Celtics finals and then the Lakers to win. It's too bad that L.A. fans are so ****ing dumb, their completely biased adoration for Kobe after he was ready to leave the city filled with bitterness and hatred not even 7 months ago is not even remembered. It's only, "81, that's all I need to say" "He has a reason to be cocky."


Put it through your heads stereotypical L.A. fans (as I type this message within a 10 minute bike ride of the Staples Center): Shaq won those three rings.

[aloofman]

He's always been that way.

There are a lot of players who say this, there is one player who lives it:

"I want everybody to know--I play every game like it's my last."
-Allen Iverson

I wasn't questioning Iverson's heart or work ethic. I just meant that he's the one with the history of acting immature (granted, that was years ago), but compared to the rest of the Nuggets he's Gandalf-level wise.



I was extremely unimpressed by Melo this series. He was awful.

He definitely had a bad series, even though he scored OK. If you saw him in the regular season, he was better. I thought he'd become a more complete player this season than he was before. I get the feeling that he just doesn't have good mentoring or the right combination of teammates in Denver. It's easy to forget that he played one (championship) season in college and then went right to the NBA. He's only 23. Unfortunately for him, he's always going to be compared to the guy who entered the league at the same time: LeBron James, who has already won a scoring title, been to the finals, and looks like a future HOFer already.


It's too bad that L.A. fans are so ****ing dumb, their completely biased adoration for Kobe after he was ready to leave the city filled with bitterness and hatred not even 7 months ago is not even remembered.

Put it through your heads stereotypical L.A. fans (as I type this message within a 10 minute bike ride of the Staples Center): Shaq won those three rings.

If by "stereotypical L.A. fans", you mean the ones who ignore the NBA until playoff time and then break out the car window flags, then yes. But if you watched the home opener, you saw the home fans boo him in the game introductions. They were showing Kobe that they were unimpressed with his offseason conduct and he had to get back to playing basketball, which he did.

As for the rings, no doubt Shaq was the engine that drove the team. But they don't win three without Kobe, maybe not even one. Quite a few people like to blame Bryant for the Shaq-Lakers divorce, but they're giving Shaq too much credit there. Shaq was the one that whined for a contract extension despite poor conditioning and that his new extension had only just kicked in. Kobe had actually planned on signing with the Clippers in 2004. He assumed that the Lakers would never trade Shaq and he'd have to go elsewhere to prove that he could carry a team. When they traded Shaq instead, he had every reason to stay with the team that could pay him more. Shaq is the more likable person, so people tend to take his side. But these were two massive egos who had trouble sharing the court, and two massive salaries that made it difficult to maneuver under the salary cap. Every non-Laker fan in the league hated that the Lakers managed to have two superstars for eight years. (Thank you Jerry West!) In hindsight, it's surprising that their partnership lasted that long. Somebody was going to have to go, and keeping the younger, cheaper player who hadn't yet reached his prime was a no-brainer.

[joekix]

Put it through your heads stereotypical L.A. fans (as I type this message within a 10 minute bike ride of the Staples Center): Shaq won those three rings.

I don't remember shaq winning with penny... the year he won with the heat, wade got mvp.

i remember during crunch time, the ball always seemed to be in kobe's hand because shaq couldn't hit free throws. they both needed each other. don't let your hatred for kobe take away what he did for the lakers too. shaq needed kobe as much as kobe needed shaq.

it's like you're a stereotypical kobe hater. you probably love steve nash. i don't get it. when kobe dropped 81, they were down by 18 in the third quarter. his teammates were shooting a crappy fg percentage, while he was hot. aren't you suppose to ride the hot hand? they also won. love him or hate him, he is that dude.

[Badandy]

Unfortunately for him, he's always going to be compared to the guy who entered the league at the same time: LeBron James, who has already won a scoring title, been to the finals, and looks like a future HOFer already.


He'll be more than a HOFer. He is absolutely ridiculous.



They were showing Kobe that they were unimpressed with his offseason conduct and he had to get back to playing basketball, which he did.

And you'd think he never did that. I understand forgiving someone, but this is the same guy who would throw his teammates under the bus if they didn't play up to snuff. This is the guy who rolls his eyes whenever his teammates make a mistake, who was never animated anytime he sat on a bench. He's been doing better, but I can't help wonder if it's because of the bad publicity or if he's being genuine.

As for the rings, no doubt Shaq was the engine that drove the team. But they don't win three without Kobe, maybe not even one.

Shaq regularly scored 30+ points and 13+ rebounds as one of the most dominant players the NBA has ever seen. I'll tell you what. Without Kobe, I think Shaq would have had at least a legitimate shot at winning. Without Shaq, Kobe wouldn't (and hasn't) won. Sure, subjective, but I think it might be accurate.

He assumed that the Lakers would never trade Shaq and he'd have to go elsewhere to prove that he could carry a team.

I guess we'll see if he can this year. Not like it would be completely carrying them, the Lakers have Odom and Gasol, Gasol being a legitimate star in the league. Sorry folks, Jordan didn't need one of the best centers in the game to win six. God, this sounds like terrible Kobe hating. Just know that I respect his game. A lot.

I don't remember shaq winning with penny... the year he won with the heat, wade got mvp.

Shaq just wins championships (excepting this year). Wade is my second favorite player in the league, so I obviously know his contribution, but without the big fella, the Heat were a first or second round exit.

shaq needed kobe as much as kobe needed shaq.

Absolutely wrong. Shaq needs a good guard capable of hitting jumpers who will pass to him.

it's like you're a stereotypical kobe hater.

And here it comes from the stereotypical Laker fan. Look, I really admire Kobe's game. He's incredible. His skill is off the charts and the only players close to him in the raw skill category are Allen Iverson and Dwyane Wade. One of those guys is under 6', and the other is always injured.

you probably love steve nash. i don't get it.

Steve Nash is an incredible player who has a lot of heart and always works his butt off. I don't love him, but what does this have to do at all with what I'm saying?

when kobe dropped 81, they were down by 18 in the third quarter. his teammates were shooting a crappy fg percentage, while he was hot. aren't you suppose to ride the hot hand? they also won. love him or hate him, he is that dude.

What is a 'that dude'? Because 'that dude' is Michael Jordan. The current 'dude' is Kobe Bryant or Lebron James.

[twoodcc]

I don't remember shaq winning with penny... the year he won with the heat, wade got mvp.

i remember during crunch time, the ball always seemed to be in kobe's hand because shaq couldn't hit free throws. they both needed each other. don't let your hatred for kobe take away what he did for the lakers too. shaq needed kobe as much as kobe needed shaq.

it's like you're a stereotypical kobe hater. you probably love steve nash. i don't get it. when kobe dropped 81, they were down by 18 in the third quarter. his teammates were shooting a crappy fg percentage, while he was hot. aren't you suppose to ride the hot hand? they also won. love him or hate him, he is that dude.

haha, this is good. i wasn't going to get into the kobe/shaq stuff, and stay with just defending Iverson, but you leave me no choice.

first off, the rules have changed since the 3 rings with LA. they call the game differently for shaq now. back then, if he got the ball down low, there was nothing you could do. i remember Mutumbo got the defensive player of the year when the 76ers met them in the finals (2001 i believe), and i remember shaq elbowing him in the face, and he gets the points and the foul. today, he wouldn't get that call.

but do you remember when LA was up 3-1 on the suns? without amare, LA was about to put the suns away, and the suns make a run in the 3rd quarter, and kobe basically quits the game. didn't score another point.

i'm not a kobe hater. everyone got mad at randy moss for walking away with 2 seconds on the clock, but this guy basically quit with 12 minutes.

[joekix]

haha, this is good. i wasn't going to get into the kobe/shaq stuff, and stay with just defending Iverson, but you leave me no choice.

first off, the rules have changed since the 3 rings with LA. they call the game differently for shaq now. back then, if he got the ball down low, there was nothing you could do. i remember Mutumbo got the defensive player of the year when the 76ers met them in the finals (2001 i believe), and i remember shaq elbowing him in the face, and he gets the points and the foul. today, he wouldn't get that call.

but do you remember when LA was up 3-1 on the suns? without amare, LA was about to put the suns away, and the suns make a run in the 3rd quarter, and kobe basically quits the game. didn't score another point.

i'm not a kobe hater. everyone got mad at randy moss for walking away with 2 seconds on the clock, but this guy basically quit with 12 minutes.


yeah, i remember that. i am a kobe fan. however, i still blame him for losing the finals against the pistons in 04. he put up so many bad shots that game, totally ignoring shaq in the post. i think he really wanted to be mvp of that series, but just couldn't buy a bucket.

the whole thing about quitting in that phoenix series has some validity, but phil wanted the whole team involved, but his teammates didn't show up. the media and the coaching staff said kobe was a ball hog, so what does he try to do... he tries getting his teammates going, but they sucked that game.

bottom line is, phoenix was a better team than the lakers that year. you look at it like they lost game 7, and i look at it as, i can't believe they went 7 games with a number 2 seed with the supposed MVP.

kwame, smush parker, puke walton (luke playing well now, not then) started for that team. i think the lakers did pretty well that year. 13 seconds and a rebound away from advancing. to this day, i have a hatred for tim thomas, lol. in your opinion, you might think he quit in game 7, but without him, there wouldn't be a game 7. you gotta admit, game 4 was awesome, but they stole that game to up 3-1.

[Badandy]

...i can't believe they went 7 games with a number 2 seed with the supposed MVP.


Yeah, because scoring 10 points less and getting 7 more assists per game while having one of the NBA's better records makes you a complete joke and undeserving of the MVP...

[joekix]

Yeah, because scoring 10 points less and getting 7 more assists per game while having one of the NBA's better records makes you a complete joke and undeserving of the MVP...

i think john stockton put the same numbers up pretty much his whole career. no mvps for him. nash is a good player, but mvp? this guy was a mvp twice, but has yet to even play in a finals. most overrated mvp ever.

imo, he was undeserving. so what? i just feel a mvp should at least play in the finals. this guy was mediocre in dallas, and has had 4 year good years with the suns now. he played with a future mvp in dallas, and 2 all-stars in phoenix and what has he actually done. NOTHING! none of the teams he has been on have won anything. he makes his teammates real good in the reg. season. i thought it was hilarious that dallas got to the finals without him. offensively, he's good, but defensively, he's a liability. i think that's what it comes down to. paul lit him up during the reg. season, and parker tore him up in the playoffs. that's why they had diaw on him.

there a lot of players that had great careers, and were mvps without winning a championship. barkley, iverson, malone, at least got to the finals and had a chance to win. nash has never been to the finals. those guys were mvps and got their teams to the finals.

what has nash actually accomplished in his career? pretty much 2 individual awards, and nothing for his team.

i'm a phoenix sun hater (i like shaq 'cause he was laker, & amare 'cause he's a monster), and i love the fact they're out. it's funny.

anyways, kobe averaged 16 points more and 6 assist less. kobe played with kwame and made him look decent. have you seen him in memphis? kobe does make his teammates better. look what happened with smush and kwame after they left.

nash is good. the phoenix suns were fun to watch. they're eye candy. no substance. lakers might have not won anything the last 4 years, but neither have the suns. sun fans have loved beating the lakers the last 2 years, but it really hasn't mattered because they haven't won anything either. the lakers have a real shot this year. the suns went out in flames in five. lol


go lakers!!!

[Badandy]

lakers might have not won anything the last 4 years, but neither have the suns.

They have won two series over the Lakers, that is more than the Lakers.

Just wait next year, I think they might be really good.

And watch out for my Heat. Dwyane Wade, Ricky Davis, Shawn Marion, Michael Beasley. That's scary good.

[Badandy]

barkley, iverson, malone, at least got to the finals and had a chance to win. nash has never been to the finals. those guys were mvps and got their teams to the finals.

Guess why Iverson didn't win. Shaq averaged 28 and 13 during the season in 2001. Unstoppable

what has nash actually accomplished in his career? pretty much 2 individual awards, and nothing for his team.

The resurgence of a whole new type of quick shooting, high scoring, exciting basketball.

i'm a phoenix sun hater

Then speak no more. ;)

[joekix]

They have won two series over the Lakers, that is more than the Lakers.

Just wait next year, I think they might be really good.

And watch out for my Heat. Dwyane Wade, Ricky Davis, Shawn Marion, Michael Beasley. That's scary good.

i mean championships. i think that's what teams play for, right? basically, you like a flashy basketball team that can't win in the playoffs. whatever floats your boat. what is the argument. they aren't that good. they don't win when it counts. as a laker fan, i can admit they weren't very good the last 3 years.

steve nash and phoenix are overrated or underachievers or whatever. you didn't win with shawn marion (he has the funniest looking jump shot), nor with shaq. shaq actually played pretty well. he still can't gaurd the pick 'n roll, but he never could.

so winning a couple playoff series is good enough for you. maybe that's how the suns think, and that why they have never won a championship.

yay, we beat the lakers. let's go lose to the spurs now!

the lakers were mediocre these past few years and no one expected anything from them. the suns were contenders, and accomplished nothing. now your team is in disarray, while the lakers and the 2008 mvp are still contending.

suns are out. what's the argument? as a sun fan, i would want them to win championships. i guess my best argument for them is beating the lakers 2 years in a row. now i have to watch them contend for a championship.

nba
where "beating the lakers in the playoffs 2 years in a row, but not going any further, is used as an argument" happens :D

[joekix]

Guess why Iverson didn't win. Shaq averaged 28 and 13 during the season in 2001. Unstoppable

that wasn't my point. iverson got his team to the finals. nash, the 2-time mvp, has never led his team to a finals, even though they are "really, really" good. i think nash is the only mvp never to get to the finals. i might be wrong, but i think in the last 20 years, it's true.


The resurgence of a whole new type of quick shooting, high scoring, exciting basketball.

and just like golden state, while it's fun to watch, it doesn't win championships or in some cases, the first round or even get you into the playoffs :D


Then speak no more. ;)

why, because i'm not a fan of losers, er... i mean, the suns :)

[Badandy]

i mean championships. i think that's what teams play for, right? basically, you like a flashy basketball team that can't win in the playoffs.

I like them. They're not my team, but they're fun to watch. That's what I care about. Basketball is about enjoyment. And since they aren't "my team", I watch them because it's awesome to see them play. The only reason I would want them to win this year is because of Shaq. Other than that, I have no reason to want them to do better than any other team.


they aren't that good. they don't win when it counts. as a laker fan, i can admit they weren't very good the last 3 years.

Well at least the Suns were fun to watch in the last three years.

steve nash and phoenix are overrated or underachievers or whatever.

Underachievers.

you didn't win with shawn marion (he has the funniest looking jump shot), nor with shaq. shaq actually played pretty well. he still can't gaurd the pick 'n roll, but he never could.

so winning a couple playoff series is good enough for you. maybe that's how the suns think, and that why they have never won a championship.

yay, we beat the lakers. let's go lose to the spurs now!

the lakers were mediocre these past few years and no one expected anything from them. the suns were contenders, and accomplished nothing. now your team is in disarray, while the lakers and the 2008 mvp are still contending.

Not. My. Team.

As a side-note: I like when Raja Bell clotheslined Kobe. Kobe throwing that elbow at Raja's jaw the play before that was uncalled for, and I like that he did something in retaliation and didn't just let it slide.


I think the Lakers will win the championship next year personally, and I wouldn't be mad if they did. I'm not a Laker hater, I've been a Laker fan my whole life until Shaq left. I like them now, just not obsessed with them. Generally, I'm not a huge fan of egotistical, arrogant, conceited ___holes. Unfortunately, for me, that person is also one of the most, if not the most, skilled players in the world. Would I hate it if the Lakers won? No, but I wouldn't be jumping for joy that a person like Kobe, who is so willing to throw his teammates under a bus, will end up victorious.

[zioxide]

Celtics win Game Seven in a massive blowout.. 99-65

[Badandy]

It might not matter zioxide. The way the Lakers are playing right now, I'm doubting any team in the league can beat them.

[decksnap]

It might not matter zioxide. The way the Lakers are playing right now, I'm doubting any team in the league can beat them.

That would be sweet to have a Lakers/Celtics final. Any team could beat the Celtics on any given day, but I don't think there is a better team out there right now.

[Badandy]

They shut LeBron down!

Wow.


OK, now bets for LeBron's stats in the next game. Here's how this will work: You guess points, assists, rebounds. We compare his stats to our bets and the person with the lowest deviation from them (in single units) wins.

35 Points
8 Assists
9 Rebounds

[decksnap]

They shut LeBron down!

Wow.


OK, now bets for LeBron's stats in the next game. Here's how this will work: You guess points, assists, rebounds. We compare his stats to our bets and the person with the lowest deviation from them (in single units) wins.

35 Points
8 Assists
9 Rebounds

Sorry, shut down again.
21 pts, 6 for 24
6 assists
5 rebounds
0-4 three pointers
7 turnovers

He'll probably do better in Cleveland.

[fotografica]

He'll probably do better in Cleveland.
No doubt..He's due for a breakout game..Not to mention I would think he'll be getting his share of calls there..Just a hunch...

[SLC Flyfishing]

It might not matter zioxide. The way the Lakers are playing right now, I'm doubting any team in the league can beat them.

Cept for the Jazz of course :D

I'm thinking they may just knock them from the playoffs this week!

SLC

[Badandy]

Need I remind you that your team let a 13 point lead slip away with 2 minutes to go when Kobe was so injured he could barely walk?

You guys play well at home, you always do, and you always have, but I think L.A. is the superior team.

[SLC Flyfishing]

Naah!

Whenever Phil Jackson loses a game in the playoffs, it is always because of the refs. He was that way at Chicago also.

Doesn't matter that Laker reserves were outscored by Jazz reserves 39 to 16!
Doesn't matter that the Lakers missed way too many free throws in Sunday's game!
Doesn't matter that Jackson left Kobe in the game during the 4th qtr and o.t. - only to shoot 3 for 14 and freeze Fisher from getting the ball!
Doesn't matter that in the first three games, his Lakers shot 126 free throws vs 74 for the Jazz!

When the mighty Phil Jackson loses, it is only because of the refs!

I think the Lakers aren't as good as many make them out to be, without Kobe and his help in getting fouled every time he touches the ball what else do the Lakers have? The Jazz time is coming; they've got what it takes to win the league and that's for sure. We're way more worried about having to face the Spurs in the W.C. finals than we've ever been about the Lakers.

SLC

[decksnap]

We're way more worried about having to face the Spurs in the W.C. finals than we've ever been about the Lakers.

SLC

Are you more worried about the Spurs or the Celtics?

[SLC Flyfishing]

Are you more worried about the Spurs or the Celtics?

Spurs!

Celtics are overrated and can't win on the road. All the Jazz would need to do is sneak one in Boston and it'd be over. And the Celtics haven't gotten past Cleveland yet either. Then they'll have to beat the Pistons.

But the Spurs, Utah hasn't won in San Antonio since 1998 I believe.

SLC

[Badandy]

Naah!

Whenever Phil Jackson loses a game in the playoffs, it is always because of the refs. He was that way at Chicago also.

Of course there were always those two straight years where MJ dismantled your team in the Finals...

So whether or not he blames stuff on the refs, your guys' record isn't very good against him.

We're way more worried about having to face the Spurs in the W.C. finals than we've ever been about the Lakers.

Want to get worried about the Lakers yet? I mean, Kobe took 10 shots in the entire game and the Lakers won. He was super injured on his second shot attempt in the last game in SLC, and it looks like he's only getting healthier. If you've been reading this thread you know I'm no Kobe fanatic, but he's really elevated his game and passing.


BTW, I lost a LOT of respect for Utah fans when they boo Derrick Fisher. I mean a lot.

[SLC Flyfishing]

BTW, I lost a LOT of respect for Utah fans when they boo Derrick Fisher. I mean a lot.

Well there's a lot more to that story than you probably know. We've a first rate cancer center in Salt Lake, as well as one of the finest children's hospitals in the country. So when he stated that he was asking for a move so he could seek better care for his daughter, we felt for him but wondered why he felt he could do so much better in LA. He took a friggin 7 million paycut to go there, plus he was taking his daughter to NYC for most of her treatments anyway. Thing is, we all feel that he wasn't completely honest in his reasons for leaving.

And besides, how much respect could you possibly have had for us Jazz fans anyway? I want to know because we're all so worried about having lost your respect badandy!

SLC

[macwall]

The Celtics are doing fine; they're just going for an unorthodox record. They're trying to be the first team to win a title while going 0-12 on the road!

[Badandy]

Well there's a lot more to that story than you probably know. We've a first rate cancer center in Salt Lake, as well as one of the finest children's hospitals in the country.

And do you know for a fact that the hospital actually performs the very rare and experimental surgery that Fisher's daughter needed? We're not doctors, and we shouldn't judge someone negatively about a medical decision when none of us have all the facts.


He took a friggin 7 million paycut to go there, plus he was taking his daughter to NYC for most of her treatments anyway.

He won 3 championships with the Lakers. He is a Laker. Then he goes to the Jazz and puts on a heroic effort in the playoffs and you boo him? He conducts himself with such class, faith, and determination.

And besides, how much respect could you possibly have had for us Jazz fans anyway?

Pretty much none. What was your most recent championship?

I want to know because we're all so worried about having lost your respect badandy!

SLC

You can sound like a sanctimonious ass all you want, but it's not my loss of respect that should make you worried. It's your blind booing of someone who is such a great person, who is going through a hard time in his life and STILL performed for you guys in the clutch that you should be worried about. My loss of a respect is just a manifestation of the wrong you are doing not only Derek Fisher, but your city.

[SLC Flyfishing]

And do you know for a fact that the hospital actually performs the very rare and experimental surgery that Fisher's daughter needed? We're not doctors, and we shouldn't judge someone negatively about a medical decision when none of us have all the facts.

Yes, I am a premedical student, and I work in said medical center which contains the cancer and chidren's hospitals. I forgot to add that we have the largest and best eye hospital west of the mississippi river in the Moran Eye center, it was cancer of the eye that his daughter was dealing with. We get people coming in from Los Angeles all the time to get treatment here. I do know though that all the treatment his daughter could have ever needed is available right here on a single medical campus in Salt Lake City.



He won 3 championships with the Lakers. He is a Laker. Then he goes to the Jazz and puts on a heroic effort in the playoffs and you boo him? He conducts himself with such class, faith, and determination.

I'm not saying that it was the best thing to do, I'm not one of those who did it, I only found out about it when this series started. But I do know the reason people are feeling just a little betrayed without him. It's OK though, we've replaced him with what most of us feel is a better (and certainly much younger) player in Kyle Korver!


Pretty much none. What was your most recent championship?

My point exactly! I should care about losing your respect, even after you freely admit that there never really was any in the first place?


You can sound like a sanctimonious ass all you want, but it's not my loss of respect that should make you worried. It's your blind booing of someone who is such a great person, who is going through a hard time in his life and STILL performed for you guys in the clutch that you should be worried about. My loss of a respect is just a manifestation of the wrong you are doing not only Derek Fisher, but your city.

You've really got me feeling bad now buddy, who are you anyway and why should I care about what you feel about me, I really do struggle with myself when anonymous internet douche bags try and insult me?

We in Salt Lake know that most out of staters think our city is backwards and strange. We know you can't stand the people who live here, we know you think that Salt Lake City has nothing to offer. But ya know what, I think I speak for everyone when I say that we don't mind it that way, we have enough cretins moving here on a daily basis, a few who have no respect for us when they don't even know us (such as yourself badandy) will only help us not spoil our city, and keep it from being overrun by idiots just like every where else. Keep the hate flowing, I'll take a tight knit community feeling and low crime, you can have the maddening crowds and drug problems.

SLC

[Badandy]

It's OK though, we've replaced him with what most of us feel is a better (and certainly much younger) player in Kyle Korver!

Not near the same position or type of player, but yes, Kyle Korver is an incredible shooter.

You've really got me feeling bad now buddy, who are you anyway and why should I care about what you feel about me, I really do struggle with myself when anonymous internet douche bags try and insult me?

Uh-oh, the condescending buddy usage was invoked! Anonymous internet douche bags? You can call me whatever you want, but me pointing out that your city has shown a huge lack of respect for a great player and a great person doesn't make me one.

We in Salt Lake know that most out of staters think our city is backwards and strange. We know you can't stand the people who live here, we know you think that Salt Lake City has nothing to offer.

I've been to Salt Lake City, it was fine. I didn't find it backwards, except for everything not being open on a Sunday or Monday (I forget which one).

But ya know what, I think I speak for everyone when I say that we don't mind it that way, we have enough cretins moving here on a daily basis, a few who have no respect for us when they don't even know us (such as yourself badandy) will only help us not spoil our city, and keep it from being overrun by idiots just like every where else.

What in Joe Smith's name are you talking about?

Keep the hate flowing, I'll take a tight knit community feeling and low crime, you can have the maddening crowds and drug problems.

SLC

When did I ever argue the merits of your community over mine? Be able to take some criticism about your tight-knit community, it's good for you.

[decksnap]

ahhemm.. uh yeah. Basketball.

Celtics can finish the series off tonight.

[joekix]

go Lakers!!!

:D

[Badandy]

Yup, I was really happy.


What is also impressive is that the Lakers didn't need a game seven against the Jazz, and the Celtics needed game sevens against both the Hawks and Cavs (which they might lose).

[aloofman]

We're way more worried about having to face the Spurs in the W.C. finals than we've ever been about the Lakers.

SLC

Perhaps you should have worried more about the Lakers.

[decksnap]

I'll admit that Detroit played with intensity last night, but damn they were getting away with fouls on everybody, every time they touched the ball. It's like the refs realized there would be too many fouls to call if they actually called them the way they normally do. Really irritating basketball to watch.

[aloofman]

Lakers dodged a bullet in Game 4. That last shot easily could have been called a foul, but it's the kind of play that doesn't get called often in the playoffs or at the end of a game, when the refs don't want to decide a game that way. Kudos to Popovich, Duncan, et al. for taking the high road and not blaming the refs. For all the complaining they do on the court, they don't make excuses off it.

In truth, that no-call balanced out the other one from two plays earlier, the one that the Lakers got back after Fisher's shot bounced off Horry's leg and out of bounce. Since the ball grazed the rim, they should have a new shot clock with 6 seconds left instead of Kobe having to chuck one up with two on the shot clock. The Lakers would have had possession, the Spurs would have had to foul, and it's much less likely that San Antonio would have been trying for a winning shot on the last play. You hate seeing it come down to the refs at the end though.

As a Laker fan, I hope they wrap up the series at home on Thursday. The Spurs are not a team you want to give second chances to.

[Warbrain]

Lakers dodged a bullet in Game 4. That last shot easily could have been called a foul, but it's the kind of play that doesn't get called often in the playoffs or at the end of a game, when the refs don't want to decide a game that way. Kudos to Popovich, Duncan, et al. for taking the high road and not blaming the refs. For all the complaining they do on the court, they don't make excuses off it.

In truth, that no-call balanced out the other one from two plays earlier, the one that the Lakers got back after Fisher's shot bounced off Horry's leg and out of bounce. Since the ball grazed the rim, they should have a new shot clock with 6 seconds left instead of Kobe having to chuck one up with two on the shot clock. The Lakers would have had possession, the Spurs would have had to foul, and it's much less likely that San Antonio would have been trying for a winning shot on the last play. You hate seeing it come down to the refs at the end though.

As a Laker fan, I hope they wrap up the series at home on Thursday. The Spurs are not a team you want to give second chances to.

While a no-call is the best explanation of what happened, I saw this as the player as not shooting and hit the defender on his own, therefore nullifying a foul. If he had begun shooting the ball when the defender jumped and drew contact he would have gotten the call but not when he still had the ball on the floor.

Good call in my opinion.

[aloofman]

While a no-call is the best explanation of what happened, I saw this as the player as not shooting and hit the defender on his own, therefore nullifying a foul. If he had begun shooting the ball when the defender jumped and drew contact he would have gotten the call but not when he still had the ball on the floor.

Good call in my opinion.

Ernie, Kenny, Barkley, and Reggie went over it ad nauseum after the game on TNT. Barry didn't sell it. If he had kept shooting it and then fallen to the floor, he gets the call. By pushing on and resetting for another shot, he made it look like he wasn't fouled at all. Fisher clearly came down on his shoulder, but Barry made it clear he was able to get a shot off anyway. The refs don't want to call a foul on a game-deciding shot if they can avoid it. (Remember Jordan pushing Bryon Russell to the ground in 1998?) But if they had in this case, it would have been defensible.

[joekix]

how about them lakers!!!

[aloofman]

I'm very interested to see who will come out of the East now. Obviously the Lakers have a playoff history with both teams. It is impossible for me to root for the Celtics, but I would like to see them in the Finals. I always felt like the one thing missing from the threepeat years was that none of the finals triumphs were against Boston. And even if it's Detroit, Kobe and Phil will want revenge for 2004.

[joekix]

I'm very interested to see who will come out of the East now. Obviously the Lakers have a playoff history with both teams. It is impossible for me to root for the Celtics, but I would like to see them in the Finals. I always felt like the one thing missing from the threepeat years was that none of the finals triumphs were against Boston. And even if it's Detroit, Kobe and Phil will want revenge for 2004.

imo, i think detroit is the better team, but i want to see boston in the finals just for nostalgia.

as long as the lakers win everything, i guess i really don't care either way.

[decksnap]

imo, i think detroit is the better team, but i want to see boston in the finals just for nostalgia.



I'm not sure what would have made you think that.

Although the celtics will lose tonight, because when the NBA wants a 7 game series, the NBA gets a 7 game series.

[Badandy]

I'm not sure what would have made you think that.


Hmmm, let's see. Because besides having Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, AND Kevin Garnett, you guys went to seven games against the freaking Hawks (who would have gotten swept by the Denver Nuggets) and seven games against the Cavaliers. You also almost gave up a 17 point lead in the fourth quarter...at home.

Although the celtics will lose tonight, because when the NBA wants a 7 game series, the NBA gets a 7 game series.

If the Celtics lose, it's not because of some conspiracy theory.

EDIT: Great article.

[decksnap]

Hmmm, let's see. Because besides having Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, AND Kevin Garnett, you guys went to seven games against the freaking Hawks (who would have gotten swept by the Denver Nuggets) and seven games against the Cavaliers. You also almost gave up a 17 point lead in the fourth quarter...at home.

eh? Talking about almost blowing a lead in one game doesn't really tell you anything about a team. They also blew out Detroit in Detroit.

They were the best team in the league this season. We'll be discussing it more when they are in the finals. :D

[Badandy]

eh? Talking about almost blowing a lead in one game doesn't really tell you anything about a team.

That's where you're wrong.

[zioxide]

NBA officials are so full of ****. They couldn't be more inconsistent.

That offensive foul called on Pierce might have been the worst call I've ever seen.

[decksnap]

That's where you're wrong.

Celtics won that game. Detroit lost. So the Celtics are the worse team? :rolleyes: Start over with a better argument.

If you just saw that call on Pierce (and that entire 3rd quarter) you'd know what I was talking about. That's a 4 point swing.

[Badandy]

Celtics won that game. Detroit lost. So the Celtics are the worse team? :rolleyes: Start over with a better argument.


No, sorry, but if you don't think that giving up a 17 point lead...in the fourth quarter...at home is NOT a bad thing that is indicative of something fundamentally wrong with your team's mentality heading into the Finals, you must not follow basketball that closely. I don't hate the Celtics, they have a bunch of plays I like, but please read this column:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080530


(he's a boston fan)

[decksnap]

No, sorry, but if you don't think that giving up a 17 point lead...in the fourth quarter...at home is NOT a bad thing that is indicative of something fundamentally wrong with your team's mentality heading into the Finals, you must not follow basketball that closely. I don't hate the Celtics, they have a bunch of plays I like, but please read this column:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080530


(he's a boston fan)

I don't need to read it thanks. Celtics just won.

[zioxide]

WOO, FINALS BABY

Celtics vs Lakers starts Thursday at the Garden :D

BEAT LA

No, sorry, but if you don't think that giving up a 17 point lead...in the fourth quarter

How about coming back from a 10 point deficit with less than 10 minutes to go in the 4th quarter on the road in Detroit?

[Badandy]

I don't need to read it thanks. Celtics just won.

That article was written under the assumption that the Celtics would win. No need for snide remarks.



How about coming back from a 10 point deficit with less than 10 minutes to go in the 4th quarter on the road in Detroit?

That was a good win.

I don't understand why I'm being met with such hostility. You guys are trying to minimize something which might be indicative of a really bad character/temperment flaw of the Celtics (the fact that they almost lost a game after giving up a 17 point 4th quarter lead). They went to game 7's against the HAWKS and the cavs. The playoffs, thus far, have been a severe disappointment for the Celtics. That's not to say they'll be swept, but you guys are *not* riding high, or at least not riding as high as you should be after your regular season record and the players you have.

The Lakers vs. Celtics are also effectively tied for the regular season...at 0-0. They played the Lakers without Pau Gasol.

[fotografica]

While I can agree that the fourth quarter against the Pistons in Game 5 was ugly,I think the key word is almost blowing a 17 point lead..Had they lost that game,and had to finish out the Pistons in a Game 7,I think their mindset would be worse.If their was any hangover from Game 5,the Celtics wouldn't have been able to put together a fourth quarter like they did last night..That was a hell of a finish for the Celtics,including overcoming a ten point fourth quarter deficit...I think the Spurs blowing that big lead,and losing Game 1,was more damaging IMO.Had they split the first two in LA,who knows how it could have changed it… I’m just glad that I don’t have to hear or see that Detroit PA announcer anymore..Since when did Flava Flav become a PA announcer?
My concerns about the Celtics heading into the Finals:
Which Celtic’s team shows up?Jekyl or Hyde?
Can Ray Allen keep the hot hand?He’s heating up at the right time.Can he carry it over?
Can the Celtics win at least one game in LA?
Will Rondo be more aggressive and take it to the basket instead of pinching and panicing when he sees bodies in the lane?
And yes,I agree..The Lakers are a different team with Gasol. I still can’t believe what they got him for :eek:
I’m looking forward to a good series.I’d love some redemption for 87. Who on the current Lakers can rock the Rambis glasses? And yes,I realize that there is a whole generation of Celtics/Lakers fans that weren’t even born then..

[Badandy]

Go Lakers!!!!!!!

[zioxide]

BEAT L.A.

[Badandy]

LAKERS: The REAL Big 3

Kobe Bryant
Pau Gasol
Lamar Odom


This is Hollywood baby, we put on a show. Get your weak *** outta here.

[Abstract]

Hope the Celtics win it.

When was the last time you heard "Lakers vs. Celtics" in a finals? I remember playing Lakers vs. Celtics video games, without even knowing how good those teams were at the time (I was like....7 years old).

[fotografica]

When was the last time you heard "Lakers vs. Celtics" in a finals? .

When the original,and ONLY Big Three,played...

[Badandy]

Biggest mismatch?


Phil Jackson vs. Doc Rivers

[rhett7660]

My team is out... I am pulling for the local team... Lakers!

[zioxide]

Paul Pierce is the mother****ing truth.

[Badandy]

Paul Pierce watches the World Cup.

[Badandy]

Celtics: 1
Lakers: 0

[decksnap]

Game 1 Celtics!

Truth!

[zioxide]

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/06/05/1212722081_9465.jpg

[Badandy]

Hahaha. What a joke. The Celtics, obviously, deserved to win that game, but if you think Paul Pierce's little "stunt" was heroic, you need to understand the human body.

I understand certain things can be overstated and then work themselves out, but I have had knee injuries (from basketball), known people with knee injuries, and seen them happen, and there is NO WAY that someone who has to be carried into a wheelchair to be carted off into the locker room (after writhing in pain on the ground for three minutes) can come back in 5 minutes with only a little bit of a limp without significantly exaggerating the extent of the injury at first. Again, the Celtics deserved the W, but that was a bit ridiculous.

The NBA, where World Cup Soccer happens.

[zioxide]

Paul Pierce's little "stunt"

Paul Pierce is the last person that would fake an injury like that. There is no way he would leave the court in the Finals unless it was serious.

I mean, we're talking about a guy that got stabbed 11 times a couple weeks before the 2000-2001 season and then went on to play all 82 games that year.

[Badandy]

Paul Pierce is the last person that would fake an injury like that. There is no way he would leave the court in the Finals unless it was serious.

I mean, we're talking about a guy that got stabbed 11 times a couple weeks before the 2000-2001 season and then went on to play all 82 games that year.

I don't know whether it was deliberate or subconscious, but you just don't get hurt so badly where you're writhing in pain for three minutes, have to get carried by three people into a wheelchair, and then go into the locker room for FIVE minutes, then come out to score 15 points in the quarter. He had a great quarter, but there is NO WAY he was hurt as badly as he made it seem if he was back in five minutes. That just doesn't happen. Maybe some agony for 15 seconds, limping, ride the bike immediately, then come back five minutes later after "walking it off". But you can't walk off the amount of pain he was showing he was in.

[decksnap]

I don't know whether it was deliberate or subconscious, but you just don't get hurt so badly where you're writhing in pain for three minutes, have to get carried by three people into a wheelchair, and then go into the locker room for FIVE minutes, then come out to score 15 points in the quarter. He had a great quarter, but there is NO WAY he was hurt as badly as he made it seem if he was back in five minutes. That just doesn't happen. Maybe some agony for 15 seconds, limping, ride the bike immediately, then come back five minutes later after "walking it off". But you can't walk off the amount of pain he was showing he was in.

Thanks doctor. :rolleyes:

Give me a break.

[zioxide]

"I think there's a great chance I'll play on Sunday," he said. "Just knowing myself, knowing my threshold for pain. Great chance I will be playing on Sunday."

Celtics coach Doc Rivers said Pierce definitely wouldn't be able to practice today, but said it won't be a problem.

"We're not going to do anything anyway," said Rivers. "We're going to watch film today and shoot free throws. I don't think he could play today, to be honest. But you know, he'll be ready by Sunday."

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/

[rhett7660]

Good game... it was neck an neck up until the final minutes. You could almost see the Lakers melt down. Not a big one,,, but a slow one. Good game thou.

[Badandy]

Thanks doctor. :rolleyes:

Give me a break.

Did I ever say I was a doctor? I'm just saying from personal experience, and from common sense, someone who is truly in that much pain does not....no....CAN NOT come back and play physically. The guy was carted off in a wheel chair after writhing on the ground for 5 minutes and comes back 5 minutes later?


Imagine Kobe doing that. Just try. His teammate falls on his leg, and Kobe is just collapsed on the ground while the medical staff is around him. He can't get up and has to be carried by three teammates into a wheel chair where he goes in the back grimacing. He comes back out 5 minutes later and plays, barely even limping. You think you'd just accept that? I wouldn't, with either player. It's unreasonable.

[zioxide]

Did I ever say I was a doctor? I'm just saying from personal experience, and from common sense, someone who is truly in that much pain does not....no....CAN NOT come back and play physically. The guy was carted off in a wheel chair after writhing on the ground for 5 minutes and comes back 5 minutes later?


Imagine Kobe doing that. Just try. His teammate falls on his leg, and Kobe is just collapsed on the ground while the medical staff is around him. He can't get up and has to be carried by three teammates into a wheel chair where he goes in the back grimacing. He comes back out 5 minutes later and plays, barely even limping. You think you'd just accept that? I wouldn't, with either player. It's unreasonable.

You obviously don't watch much sports then. Whenever an athlete gets a knee injury, they always take precautions. After Paul went down, the trainer came over, and would ask him "What happened?" Pierce is going to say "I heard my knee pop and it hurts." The trainer is then going to tell him not to put any weight on it so you don't cause any further damage, and they'll take him off. If that happens in football, they bring out the cart on to the field and take the guy off. In basketball since you're in a smaller arena, they use a wheelchair.

As far as pain goes, he was definitely in a lot of pain. You could see it on his face. They could have given him a cortisone shot or something. Depending on the injury, the pain could go away after a few minutes. I've banged up my knee playing football before where it's hurt really bad and I could barely walk for a couple of minutes, but after that it was fine despite it being a bit sore.

[Badandy]

You obviously don't watch much sports then.

Brilliant rebuttal.


Whenever an athlete gets a knee injury, they always take precautions.

As they should.

The trainer is then going to tell him not to put any weight on it so you don't cause any further damage, and they'll take him off.

Of course the trainer is gonna say that, but that is NOT why he was taken off and put in a wheelchair. He was showing so much pain, he literally wouldn't have been able to walk.

Depending on the injury, the pain could go away after a few minutes. I've banged up my knee playing football before where it's hurt really bad and I could barely walk for a couple of minutes, but after that it was fine despite it being a bit sore.

Pain is one thing, extreme debilitating pain is another. He showed like he had the latter. You simply aren't "good to go" after five minutes.



As a side note: I like Paul Pierce. He seems like a nice guy who has stuck it out on the Celtics. He grew up around where I live, and he's a great player. I have no animosity towards him, and truthfully, I really don't have any huge affinity for the Lakers. I simply don't like Kobe's personality and can't really root for him like I can root for Allen Iverson or Dwyane Wade. But ask yourself. If the situations were reveresed, and Kobe was down and out...and back in 5 minutes later, would you not think he was exaggerating after that display of pain?

[decksnap]

Brilliant rebuttal.


You're the one interpreting it as 'extreme debilitating' pain. Zioxide's explanation is spot on. Also not so sure why you are so hung up on this.

[Badandy]

You're the one interpreting it as 'extreme debilitating' pain. Zioxide's explanation is spot on.

Did you see him?!

Also not so sure why you are so hung up on this.

Because if it were Kobe, you know that you would not just be accepting the incongruity between his display of pain and his playing five minutes later.

[zioxide]

If it were Kobe, the media wouldn't stop fellating him. Oh wait, they do already.

[zioxide]

BEAT L.A.

[decksnap]

Game 2 Celtics!

This is kind of funny, considering how much Gruber hates Boston teams.

[joekix]

GO LAKERS!!!

38 - 10 free throw disparage, smh...

[zioxide]

BEAT L.A.

[kidwithdimples]

Lakers taking it tonight baby!

[zioxide]

I wonder if these ****ing tool announcers will take Kobe's dick out of their mouths at all in the second half.

Amazingly the Celtics played like complete **** and are only down by 6. Also, this game is even more biased towards the Lakers than Game 2 was for the Celtics. Stupid refs blowing dead a C's transition with the Kobe technical. Kobe is such a whiney bitch.

KG and Pierce need to play some ****ing offense in the second half.

[bov]

even though i want the Celtics to win, i want the Lakers to win games 3 and 4 so we have a good series :D

[decksnap]

I wonder if these ****ing tool announcers will take Kobe's dick out of their mouths at all in the second half.

Amazingly the Celtics played like complete **** and are only down by 6. Also, this game is even more biased towards the Lakers than Game 2 was for the Celtics. Stupid refs blowing dead a C's transition with the Kobe technical. Kobe is such a whiney bitch.

KG and Pierce need to play some ****ing offense in the second half.

Did you hear her interviewing Kobe about why they got so many more free throws tonight then last time? He said 'we played exactly the same.' Yeah. Right. Maybe if they drove to the hoop once in game 2 they would have went to the line. .:rolleyes:

[kidwithdimples]

**** YEAH!

Lets go LA LAKERS!

[zioxide]

ugh, what a ****ing pitiful game. C's had a ton of chances to win that game, but they The whole Celtics offense played like ****, shooting under 35%. If they shot 40%, they would have won that game.

Kobe is such a bitch. He's the Peyton Manning of the NBA, crying whenever something doesn't go his way and bitching at his teammates all the time. After he ****ing mugged The Truth in the 4th quarter and bitched at the refs for 5 minutes, any other player would have gotten a technical foul there. But since it's Kobe, they don't call it because the NBA doesn't want their star player being ejected from the game.

[aloofman]

Kobe is such a bitch. He's the Peyton Manning of the NBA, crying whenever something doesn't go his way and bitching at his teammates all the time. After he ****ing mugged The Truth in the 4th quarter and bitched at the refs for 5 minutes, any other player would have gotten a technical foul there. But since it's Kobe, they don't call it because the NBA doesn't want their star player being ejected from the game.

Could be worse. At least he didn't fake an injury and try to do a Willis Reed impersonation. :p

[joekix]

Could be worse. At least he didn't fake an injury and try to do a Willis Reed impersonation. :p

the "truth"... more like a fraud!!! :D

the machine shot hot sizzle!!!

[zioxide]

Could be worse. At least he didn't fake an injury and try to do a Willis Reed impersonation. :p

the "truth"... more like a fraud!!! :D

I hope you're both being sarcastic.

[Joel Beason]

im going to have to agree with the whole BEAT LA thing, I never liked the celtics until this year, I always like KG and ray allen went to uconn, always liked pierce never really had a team so they are now it BEAT KOBE> !!

[aloofman]

I hope you're both being sarcastic.

That's what the tongue sticking out was for, obviously.

I don't think Pierce was really faking, but watching him in such agony is humorous now considering he came back and played as well as ever. I think it was most likely a panicky overreaction on Pierce's part, like when you get the wind knocked out of you and momentarily feeling like you might really be hurt even though you aren't.

[zioxide]

Game 4 in 20 minutes.. hopefully Pierce and KG will finally arrive from Boston today.

BEAT L.A.

[joekix]

Game 4 in 20 minutes.. hopefully Pierce and KG will finally arrive from Boston today.

BEAT L.A.

i guess they still have the second half to go off...

i'm glad lamar finally showed up

[zioxide]

What a ****ing joke.

KG is such a phony. He's just like A-Rod in the playoffs. I hope he can prove me wrong, but it doesn't look like it.

At least when we lose this series, we can fire Doc Rivers and get a coach that doesn't suck.

[joekix]

isn't boston your team???

how do you rip k.g. like that before the series is even over?

when kwame brown was a laker, i hated supporting him, but i did 'cause he was a laker and i'm a fan of the lakers. he isn't now, so it's great. :D

[zioxide]

isn't boston your team???

how do you rip k.g. like that before the series is even over?

because he ****ing sucks. He can't even get rebounds now. Though it doesn't help that he's getting pushed in the back on almost every play and the refs aren't calling ****.


Looks like Perk separated his shoulder and is probably going to be done for the series.

[lostfan916]

This is awesome. I hate the Lakers.:)

[benmrii]

That's amazing, to come back from that size of a deficit on the road and win. Go Celtics!

[zioxide]

THE CELTICS WIN!!!

ONE OF THE GREATEST COMEBACKS IN FINALS HISTORY!

Paul Pierce with an epic third quarter and amazing defense on Kobe..

Posey and Ray Allen coming up huge as well.

Paul Pierce is the mother****ing truth.

[bov]

Amazing Game!!!!!!!!!! Go Celtics!!!!

[joekix]

nice win for ya'!

as a laker fan, it sucks losing, but that's my team. i dunno if kobe was so much shut down, because he sucked in the first half too and no one was really guarding him. his shot was just off.

go lakers!!! 3 in a row!!! :D

[benmrii]

nice win for ya'!

as a laker fan, it sucks losing, but that's my team. i dunno if kobe was so much shut down, because he sucked in the first half too and no one was really guarding him. his shot was just off.

go lakers!!! 3 in a row!!! :D

That was a pretty demoralizing loss and they continue to be outplayed. I'll be surprised if they win one more.

[Badandy]

Now THAT'S an MVP performance. Jordan who?





Trade Kobe

[joekix]

That was a pretty demoralizing loss and they continue to be outplayed. I'll be surprised if they win one more.

i know it's most likely it's over, but i can dream, right? it was a great season for the lakes. they were an 8 seed at best when the season started, kobe wanted to be traded, and things just looked bad. no one expected this from them.

when the season started, everyone had picked boston already. boston is doing what they were assembled to do. you put 3 all-stars together, you're going to get a pretty good team. if you win, enjoy it now. lakers will be back with a vengeance next year and the rivalry will continue. lakers will have bynum back and you saw what ariza can do. so much upside for the lakers.

p.s. to boston fans: patriots 18-1 lol!!! i'm down right now, and that's all i got :D

[joekix]

Now THAT'S an MVP performance. Jordan who?





Trade Kobe

kobe did suck tonite, but so did gasol. garnett owns him. i like gasol, but the minute someone touches him, he just falls over. he reminds me of jim everett with the rams. why doesn't phil ever call timeouts during those huge runs??? it's the finals, you tell them how to turn it around instead of them playing it out. it's the finals!!!

trade kobe for whom???

[Badandy]

This loss is on Kobe. We ALL know KG is a million times better than Pau, that's obvious. Kobe with his little cockiness on "Oh, I can turn my scoring on and off" blah blah blah. That's horse****. Stick to something. Either go to the rim or pass to your teammates the whole game. Just jacking up long shots after you've been passing the whole game messes up the tempo and momentum the other type of style inspires in the team.

Trade Kobe for whom? SOMEONE would want him, and would give up a lot to get him. You're not going to get a 1:1 trade in most Laker fans' eyes, but Im pretty confident you could get someone damn good. Trade to the Heat for Dwyane Wade or Wade and a draft pick. Something. Just make sure you trade him for someone who is a great player but relatively humble and not a complete pretentious male organ. Someone who inspires teammates, not berates them. The LA Times can run however many bias articles they want about Kurt Schilling's observations during game 2, but that doesn't change what Kurt saw. You can't have your star player try to tell you something and your other teammates roll their eyes when he turns around. That's bad, and it's because of Kobe.

[zioxide]

lakers will be back with a vengeance next year and the rivalry will continue.

Hopefully it will continue for a few more years. The truth, KG, and Ray Ray still have 5 solid years left.

p.s. to boston fans: patriots 18-1 lol!!! i'm down right now, and that's all i got :D

lol, I feel bad for you if that's all you guys have :P Pats are going to be back with the best team in the NFL this year, plus we have 3 Superbowl and 2 World Series trophys in the past 7 years. :D

This loss is on Kobe. We ALL know KG is a million times better than Pau, that's obvious. Kobe with his little cockiness on "Oh, I can turn my scoring on and off" blah blah blah. That's horse****. Stick to something. Either go to the rim or pass to your teammates the whole game. Just jacking up long shots after you've been passing the whole game messes up the tempo and momentum the other type of style inspires in the team.

Gotta give the Truth tons of credit for playing amazing defense on him in the 2nd half too.

The LA Times can run however many bias articles they want about Kurt Schilling's observations during game 2, but that doesn't change what Kurt saw. You can't have your star player try to tell you something and your other teammates roll their eyes when he turns around. That's bad, and it's because of Kobe.

Yup. Oh, it's Curt btw. :)


I'm still ****ing stunned that the C's actually came back. That was amazing.

[joekix]

Hopefully it will continue for a few more years. The truth, KG, and Ray Ray still have 5 solid years left.



lol, I feel bad for you if that's all you guys have :P Pats are going to be back with the best team in the NFL this year, plus we have 3 Superbowl and 2 World Series trophys in the past 7 years. :D



Gotta give the Truth tons of credit for playing amazing defense on him in the 2nd half too.



Yup. Oh, it's Curt btw. :)


I'm still ****ing stunned that the C's actually came back. That was amazing.

you just put k.g. on blast, but since the celts won everything is okay now... whatever dude. the lakers lost tonite. the celts are better. they won 66 games. i like kobe. i like pau. i root for the players that play in laker uniforms cause i'm a laker fan.


badandy: when they lose, they lose because of kobe. when they win, it's because of someone else. they would have lost if not for kobe and sasha in game 3. i dunno what to say. i think they have a bright future. magic and showtime lost 4 times in the finals. so kobe has lost 2 now. so because they made the finals, and because they lost, you should trade kobe now. Because of Kobe, they got to the finals. kobe still got into the playoffs with smush parker and kwame brown starting.

[zioxide]

you just put k.g. on blast, but since the celts won everything is okay now... whatever dude. the lakers lost tonite. the celts are better. they won 66 games. i like kobe. i like pau. i root for the players that play in laker uniforms cause i'm a laker fan.

So just because a guy wears your team's jersey you have to support him blindly? KG did absolutely nothing in the first 3 quarters.

He proved me and a bunch of other people wrong by stepping up big in the 4th.


http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/06/13/1213330715_6825.jpg

Old Man PJ dunking over "MVP" :rolleyes: Kobe Bryant to close the 3rd quarter and bring the Celtics within 2 points (73-71).

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/06/13/1213332028_6309.jpg

Ray Allen's game-clinching layup. He played all 48 minutes tonight, and he played amazing defense (especially during that 21-3 run to close out the 3rd quarter.

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/06/13/1213330715_9421.jpg

Kobe can't handle the Truth.

"I thought Paul Pierce played the best defensive game of his life." - Doc

[joekix]

thanks for the pics superfan. i didn't see those things happen when i watched the game. it's clear that boston is better. but kobe put up a mvp season. he got his team to the finals. remember, k.g. won mvp to and the lakers knocked them out back in '04. did k.g. not deserve his mvp because he didn't get his team to the finals?

what i don't get is why it took 7 games to beat atlanta and cleveland. cleveland, maybe? but atlanta? boston peaked at the right moment. they looked back to normal in that pistons series

[Badandy]

badandy: when they lose, they lose because of kobe. when they win, it's because of someone else.

No, when they lose because Kobe spent a half "feeling the game out" and getting teammates involved, thus getting them used to one style, and then completely changes the entire momentum and style of the game, then it is his fault. I'm sorry, but he needs to be more consistent. And in Game 3, the reason they won was because of Kobe and Sasha. You aren't being hard enough on Kobe. What did he have, like 2-3 assists?! That's bad, even for a scorer.

so because they made the finals, and because they lost, you should trade kobe now.

No, because no matter the situation, Kobe makes it into a terrible one. He sneers as his teammates, he drives out the most dominant player in NBA history (who he could have won 3 more championships with) by saying he doesn't want to be a sidekick anymore, and for all of his new image, he really hasn't changed. He's the same selfish brat he started becoming in 2001, and I, for one, am sick of it.

Take a player like Dwyane Wade. Sure, he's injured, but he is one of (if not the most) talented players in the NBA. He is a true superstar, and guess what? He's humble, he's a nice guy, he's a great teammate, and he doesn't hold grudges. That's a player. Someone so good that he should have an ego, but doesn't.

kobe still got into the playoffs with smush parker and kwame brown starting.

The Hawks made the playoffs sub 500. Making the playoffs isn't the measure of a team, it's how they do in them.

[zioxide]

but kobe put up a mvp season. he got his team to the finals.

Basketball is a team sport.

it's clear that boston is better.

Boston is a team, and tonight's comeback was the epitome of a "team win".

[Badandy]

I'm confused. Was it just me that has been noticing when Kobe does his little feeling out the game/distribution mode that the Lakers are unstoppable, and when everyone thinks he's going to go into assassin mode we LOSE? But no, it was how bad his teammates are. That must be it. :rolleyes:


Trade Kobe 1:1 for Dwyane Wade. Pull the trigger Jerry.

[decksnap]

No, sorry, but if you don't think that giving up a 17 point lead...in the fourth quarter...at home is NOT a bad thing that is indicative of something fundamentally wrong with your team's mentality heading into the Finals, you must not follow basketball that closely.

I thought it would be appropriate to quote this from earlier in the thread, about why you think the Celtics are not a very good team. Remember that the Celtics didn't even lose that game.

ps. That game was crazy!!!!!!!!

Kobe: still a douche.

[brn2ski00]

Kobe is retarded... literally. His quote didn't even make sense:

".... a lot of beer, a few shots... about 20 of them..."

Give me a break you short bus riding, weak ass MVP....

BEAT L.A.

[brn2ski00]

I thought it would be appropriate to quote this from earlier in the thread, about why you think the Celtics are not a very good team. Remember that the Celtics didn't even lose that game.

ps. That game was crazy!!!!!!!!

Kobe: still a douche.

biggest douche ever... go cheat on your wife.

[brn2ski00]

I'm confused. Was it just me that has been noticing when Kobe does his little feeling out the game/distribution mode that the Lakers are unstoppable, and when everyone thinks he's going to go into assassin mode we LOSE? But no, it was how bad his teammates are. That must be it. :rolleyes:


Trade Kobe 1:1 for Dwyane Wade. Pull the trigger Jerry.

L.A. is terrible... The C's haven't even had a perfect game with the Big 3 yet. Game 5 will be a blowout.

[brn2ski00]

So just because a guy wears your team's jersey you have to support him blindly? KG did absolutely nothing in the first 3 quarters.

He proved me and a bunch of other people wrong by stepping up big in the 4th.


http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/06/13/1213330715_6825.jpg

Old Man PJ dunking over "MVP" :rolleyes: Kobe Bryant to close the 3rd quarter and bring the Celtics within 2 points (73-71).

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/06/13/1213332028_6309.jpg

Ray Allen's game-clinching layup. He played all 48 minutes tonight, and he played amazing defense (especially during that 21-3 run to close out the 3rd quarter.

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/06/13/1213330715_9421.jpg

Kobe can't handle the Truth.

"I thought Paul Pierce played the best defensive game of his life." - Doc

PJ's Dunk = ridiculous.

[aloofman]

ONE OF THE GREATEST COMEBACKS IN FINALS HISTORY!


An hour and a half earlier you were calling Garnett a phony and wanted Rivers fired. You might hurt yourself getting off and on the bandwagon so fast. :rolleyes:

when they lose, they lose because of kobe. when they win, it's because of someone else.

Completely ridiculous. They lose for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it's because Kobe is jacking up bad shots. Sometimes it's because the rest of the Lakers forget how to score. Or they just stop playing defense. And sometimes, like in Game 4, all of those things happen at once. I can't believe they choked that game away.


No, because no matter the situation, Kobe makes it into a terrible one. He sneers as his teammates, he drives out the most dominant player in NBA history (who he could have won 3 more championships with) by saying he doesn't want to be a sidekick anymore, and for all of his new image, he really hasn't changed. He's the same selfish brat he started becoming in 2001, and I, for one, am sick of it.

Actually he's the same selfish brat that he was as a rookie in 1996. The pundits this season have cracked me up. All the talk about Kobe becoming unselfish is a joke. Kobe is the same guy he always was: he's willing to pass the ball if he thinks his teammate has a better chance of scoring than he does. But when he decides that he has the best chance (and sometimes he's right) then he'll take it himself. The difference is that this season he has a more complete team around him and he has more moments when he thinks they can score too. That's it. Otherwise he's the same guy.

Let's get something straight. Kobe is not the only reason Shaq left. Kobe isn't the one who demanded another $30 million per contract extension as soon as his latest contract started. Kobe isn't the one who showed up out of shape for the preseason three years in a row. Kobe isn't the one who publicly demanded the trade that got the Lakers 40 cents on the dollar. Shaq did all those things. Buss traded him because he was tired of Shaq's complaining and decided he wasn't a good investment anymore. Shaq and Kobe both have huge egos, both want to be the man on their team, both expect others to cater to them, and both share the blame for their breakup.

Take a player like Dwyane Wade. Sure, he's injured, but he is one of (if not the most) talented players in the NBA. He is a true superstar, and guess what? He's humble, he's a nice guy, he's a great teammate, and he doesn't hold grudges. That's a player. Someone so good that he should have an ego, but doesn't.


I wouldn't trade Wade straight up for Kobe. Not now anyway. As great as Wade is, he won one title with the help of Shaq and a ridiculous number of foul calls against the Mavs. The calls that Wade got in the 2006 finals make this postseason's bad officiating look stellar. Wade also has a problem staying healthy these days, whereas Kobe has played through a lot of injuries and stays on the floor. There are many, many reasons not to like Kobe, but he's the most dedicated player in the league.

Wade seems like he's at a crossroad right now. He doesn't have Shaq to help him anymore, the Heat are terrible, and he's getting hurt a lot. He could end up going down the LeBron or Kobe career path. Then again, he could end up being the next Grant Hill, and we'll always wonder "what if?"


Trade Kobe 1:1 for Dwyane Wade. Pull the trigger Jerry.

Forget it. Oh, and Jerry West isn't the GM anymore.

For the record, Kobe had 10 assists last night, the most of anyone in the game, not "2 or 3".

Assuming some miracle doesn't happen, right now it looks like the Lakers will finish second this year. As much as I hate the idea of losing to the Celtics, I'm consoling myself a little knowing that they weren't supposed to get this far this season, that they're a young team on the rise, that with Bynum back next season they'd have the best front court in the league, and that they really weren't playoff-tested yet this time. The truth is that the Lakers are hitched to the Kobe train, for better or worse. He's going to be a major part of how far they go each season. He's both the most talented, dedicated, and ruthless player in the league, and also the most irritating. (I'm not sure he's the most selfish. Vince Carter, anyone?) We'll continue to have him to kick around and by awed by for quite a while.

Personally, I would rather have him giving my team a chance to win each game than see him play somewhere else. No team should make rash decisions based on one playoff series.

[SactoGuy18]

Colin Cowherd on his ESPN Radio show may have hit on the reason why the Lakers are playing terrible this year in the Finals: too many of the players on the Lakers' roster come from Europe, where they're used to FIBA International rules basketball with its emphasis on the perimeter game.

As such, the Lakers without Andrew Bynum's presence "in the paint" are being pounded on constantly by the entire Celtics' roster, and that's why the Lakers were running on fumes by the end of the game last night. Don't be surprised that the Lakers may trade for a few more players capable of a strong defensive presence in the off-season.

[aloofman]

Colin Cowherd on his ESPN Radio show may have hit on the reason why the Lakers are playing terrible this year in the Finals: too many of the players on the Lakers' roster come from Europe, where they're used to FIBA International rules basketball with its emphasis on the perimeter game.

As such, the Lakers without Andrew Bynum's presence "in the paint" are being pounded on constantly by the entire Celtics' roster, and that's why the Lakers were running on fumes by the end of the game last night. Don't be surprised that the Lakers may trade for a few more players capable of a strong defensive presence in the off-season.

Not sure I buy that. All of their European players have been here long enough to adjust to the NBA game. I'm not sure they need many changes either. I think they need to get Bynum healthy and see how he integrates into the lineup over the long-term before they know if major changes are needed. If the Lakers went into the playoffs with a healthy Bynum and Ariza right now, how different might it be? Or if the Lakers bench were playing even average right now instead of getting whipped? On the other hand, a case could be made that Odom is just too inconsistent to rely on and they should shop him around. I'm not sure who they'd get for him though.

What if the Celtics are just playing better right now? Isn't that possible, as much as I wish it weren't true? If the Celtics were currently playing like they did against the Hawks, then the Lakers would be up 3-1 right now. It took a while for the Celtics to adapt their still fairly-new roster to playoff basketball, but now it looks like their doing it.

What worries me most about the Lakers right now is that this same thing happened the last time they were in the finals. The 2004 Lakers also beat a very tough Western Conference in the first three rounds, then didn't adapt to a peaking opponent in the finals. Why did it take them so long to take it to Boston the way they did in the first half of Game 4? Or even at the end of Game 2?

Championship teams adapt to beat their toughest opponents. The Lakers aren't stepping up right now and the Celtics are. It's not that I think the Lakers are incapable of pulling a miracle comeback and winning this series. They just haven't given me much reason to think they will.

[zioxide]

http://i28.tinypic.com/2le56wj.gif

[brn2ski00]

snip

Priceless.

[Badandy]

Shaq and Kobe both have huge egos, both want to be the man on their team, both expect others to cater to them


But Shaq was the man.

I wouldn't trade Wade straight up for Kobe. Not now anyway. As great as Wade is, he won one title with the help of Shaq and a ridiculous number of foul calls against the Mavs.

He is ridiculously good. With or without Shaq. The Heat had NO inside presence at all.

Wade also has a problem staying healthy these days, whereas Kobe has played through a lot of injuries and stays on the floor.

I'll give you that. IF he gets healthy, which is a definite if, I have this strange feeling that he will be one of the all time greats. And by all time great, I mean top five.


Wade seems like he's at a crossroad right now. He doesn't have Shaq to help him anymore, the Heat are terrible, and he's getting hurt a lot. He could end up going down the LeBron or Kobe career path. Then again, he could end up being the next Grant Hill, and we'll always wonder "what if?"

The difference is, we KNOW what if. We've seen it for the last four years. But the Heat will be good next year: Healthier Wade, Marion, JWill, Beasley or Rose...

They won't make a title run. But Wade + Rose/Beasley + Marion is a solid line up.



Forget it. Oh, and Jerry West isn't the GM anymore.

I was referring to the Dr.


Personally, I would rather have him giving my team a chance to win each game than see him play somewhere else. No team should make rash decisions based on one playoff series.

One playoff series? We've known it for years. Trade him for Wade, and if people don't think that's even, trade him for Wade and the no. 2 pick.

[zioxide]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/2575351542_059a2d324a_o.jpg

[joekix]

GO LAKERS!!! 3 in a ROW!!! I can still hope. :o

[zioxide]

Game 5 tonight.. one win away from #17.

WIN IT

BEAT L.A.

[joekix]

3 wins away from #15. :D

[joekix]

3 wins away from #15. :D

2 wins away from #15. :D

[zioxide]

KG still isn't clutch.

And Kobe's "steal" was definitely a foul.

At least we get to win it in Boston.

[joekix]

KG still isn't clutch.

And Kobe's "steal" was definitely a foul.

At least we get to win it in Boston.

we'll see, come tuesday... :D

but what if, it really is where AMAZING happens. how awesome would that be???

first the pats, and then the celts. oh, i can't wait 'till game 6. win or lose, it was great to watch the lakers this season. as a boston fan, i'm sure you feel the same. you guys have been rebuilding for years, and i think it's great that you guys are competitive again, even at the cost of the lakers. i'm sure for the next 4 years, the lakers and celts have a chance to be battling for titles year after year.

[aloofman]

oh, i can't wait 'till game 6. win or lose, it was great to watch the lakers this season. as a boston fan, i'm sure you feel the same. you guys have been rebuilding for years, and i think it's great that you guys are competitive again, even at the cost of the lakers. i'm sure for the next 4 years, the lakers and celts have a chance to be battling for titles year after year.

I was with you until the "even at the cost of the Lakers" part. As fun as the rivalry is, there is NO joy in having the other team in the Lakers/Celtics rivalry win the title at your expense. If the Celtics end up winning the series, it will hurt way worse than the 2004 loss to the Pistons. And if the Lakers win, it will feel far better than beating the Nets.

[zioxide]

As of 4 p.m. EDT today, the Celtics plane is still on the ground in Los Angeles due to mechanical issues with the plane.

At 5:30 p.m., Celtics radio announcer Cedric Maxwell reported on sports radio WEEI that a 757 airplane has been flown in to take the Celtics back to Boston on a direct flight.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/

[joekix]

I was with you until the "even at the cost of the Lakers" part. As fun as the rivalry is, there is NO joy in having the other team in the Lakers/Celtics rivalry win the title at your expense. If the Celtics end up winning the series, it will hurt way worse than the 2004 loss to the Pistons. And if the Lakers win, it will feel far better than beating the Nets.


i know what you're saying, but to me it really doesn't matter. i was 11 the last time the lakers played the celts in the playoffs in 87. i remember them winning. that was the last time the celtics were relevant. i know they have a rich tradition, but i was only alive for two of their championships. i've seen many laker championships. losing to boston in a year where the lakers came out of no where is nothing to be sad about. i really enjoyed watching the team grow this past year. losing to the suns in 06 hurt more than losing in 04 to the pistons to me. even if they lose this series, the suns series will hurt more. i just hate steve nash. actually that whole suns team. 13 seconds and a rebound away from advancing. god, i hate tim thomas. i really felt if malone wasn't hurt, they could have took the pistons. speaking of 04... .04 was awesome, wasn't it? the 3 kobe hit to send the game into overtime in game two was awesome.

anyways, win or lose... GO LAKERS!!!

[zioxide]

damn it, i wish i was rich right now. there's a pair of courtside seats at center court going for $62,000 on stubhub :D

[aloofman]

losing to boston in a year where the lakers came out of no where is nothing to be sad about. i really enjoyed watching the team grow this past year.


Oh, right up until the finals I thought that. And if it were any other team they were playing, I'd see this postseason as something great to build on. And next season I'll be thinking that either way. But if you can't muster extra emotion because it's the Celtics, then you haven't paid attention to the rivalry. Seven of the Bill Russell-era titles came at the Lakers expense. The Celtics are the biggest single reason that Elgin Baylor never won a title, and why Jerry West almost never won one as a player. Even a mild-mannered Laker fan should hate the Celtics at least during this series.

losing to the suns in 06 hurt more than losing in 04 to the pistons to me. even if they lose this series, the suns series will hurt more.


Completely disagree. The 2006 Lakers playoff team was terrible except for Kobe. Without him they would have a chance at the number one draft pick. Sure, I would have liked to have seen them beat the Suns, but that team was never going to advance far in the playoffs.

i really felt if malone wasn't hurt, they could have took the pistons.


Yeah, they could have. Or if Kobe hadn't pouted like a baby that whole series. Or if he hadn't distracted the team all season with his off-court problems. Or if Payton had bothered to play in the triangle. Or if the Pistons hadn't peaked at exactly the right time. Or if ANY Laker besides Shaq made some shots in the series. Just a complete waste of a potentially historic season.

[obiwan559]

idk i think boston should have finished it last game..now all the pressure is on boston IMO.

we need a big game from bryant, odam, and gasol today..and the bench needs to step up


LAKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[zioxide]

enough bull ****.. just ****ing win it!

BEAT L.A.

[decksnap]

I have a feeling KG is going to bust out tonight. Of course they have to make plays for him. I'm still worried about the rebounds with Perkins out.

Anyone hear if he's playing tonight?

[decksnap]

enough bull ****.. just ****ing win it!

BEAT L.A.

Does it censor you automatically, because that could save me a lot of time. :D

[zioxide]

Anyone hear if he's playing tonight?

Perk is playing.

[lostfan916]

I. Am. Loving. This.


:D

[Sky Blue]

I. Am. Loving. This.


:D

Me too. I was gonna be pissed if bryant got MVP and a championship.

Karma's a bitch.

oh, and "we weren't supposed to be in the finals this year anyway" is a terrible excuse.

[decksnap]

holy ****ing blowout!!!!! !!!!!!!

[Teh Don Ditty]

Boston Celtics 2008 NBA Champions

[lostfan916]

Congrats to all the Celtics fans out there. :)

[Teh Don Ditty]

Paul Pierce aka The Truth is your Finals MVP.

Celtics set a new playoff record for largest margin of victory in a championship clincher, 39.

[Surely]

Phew. I was worried that there were going to be riots here. ;)

/I kid, I kid.

The Celtics were by far the stronger team. There was no doubt in my mind that they were going to win. What a blowout.

[Counterfit]

Phew. I was worried that there were going to be riots here. ;)

/I kid, I kid.

Don't exhale until sunrise. :p


#17 baby.

[tWoSour]

I have been a Celtics fan my entire life....my dad had season tickets up till 4 years ago....I was practically raised in the Boston Garden, and I am speechless.

I was alive for 2 previous titles (born in '83), but this is the first I can enjoy.

[SuperCompu2]

"Celebrate with dignity"

*Thinks back to Red Sox 04 Championship riots*

Ah, Boston.

Best game was #4 IMO.

[joekix]

congrats to celts fans!!! they were the better team. k.g. sounds like a retard... true story.

bottom line, they were the better team, and as a laker fan, i can't wait 'till next season.

GO LAKERS!!!

aloofman, if you you're laker fan, you ride or die with what they got. honestly, they have a good team. let's see what happens next year, and go from there.

2006, suns vs. lakers. that hurt 'cause i can't stand the suns. nash= no finals appearances, yet 2 mvps. that is caca.

this hurts, but next year can be something truly special. i hope boston is there at the end again.

2004, man, i agree with you when you say kobe lost it because he wanted the MVP, but seriously, shaq was fat & wack (the following year in miami, he came back skinny and in shape. this pissed me off), malone was out, and payton lost his shot. (so did kobe, but the other things mattered more)

2008, if not for triple ochoa, they wouldn't even be in the finals. you are a fan, we're going to have to ride and die with kobe. that's it. be a fan and enjoy it because even with this loss, you gotta admit, it was one helluva ride.

the funniest part of the nite was when my little sister text me and said...
(after i text her, it's all good!!! next year!!!)

"no-they got murdered! they could have just got their ass kicked, but they chose to get murdered"

that had me rollin'

anyways, i'm feeling actually pretty good with all the libations i had earlier, and i just want to say to zioxide, good for your celts!

again, aloofman, pau is soft, but hopefully bynum (being a force in the paint) will be back 100% and the championship will be back in lala land next year. you gotta admit, the lakers were overachievers this year, and next year will just be that much better.

i just read the post, and as over zealous as i sound (drunk), i don't care :D

[Badandy]

Three things:

1) Lakers didn't deserve it, so it was the right outcome.

2) Championships in last decade: Lakers-3 Celtics-1

3) Never, EVER, mention Kobe and MJ in the same sentence again...ever.

[joekix]

Three things:

1) Lakers didn't deserve it, so it was the right outcome.

2) Championships in last decade: Lakers-3 Celtics-1

3) Never, EVER, mention Kobe and MJ in the same sentence again...ever.

#3... i will finally concede.

p.s., i think magic was the best. he got to the finals 9 times. jordan probably would have won 8 straight... but he shouldn't have gambled, i mean retired for those 2 years. ;)

go lakers!!!


on another note, isn't the office the best? just catching a rerun on my tivo on tbs

[aloofman]

Honestly -- and this is probably a hasty overreaction on my part -- I want Phil Jackson fired right now. To cough up their worst performance of the season in the most important game of the season is just unfathomable and embarrassing. It's not even about being outplayed, which they certainly were, but they looked like they gave up playing defense before halftime. A championship next year is the only thing that can redeem them. And even then I'll still have a bad taste in my mouth. And to get humiliated by the Celtics of all teams. Total nightmare.

There's no solace in having a young team with a lot of potential. None at all. At least not anytime soon.

[zioxide]

ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE


best ****ing sports night of my life.

Posey and House's back to back 3's when we were up by just 3 points.. we went ****ing insane.

KG's and-1 where he banked it off the glass over odom..

Ray Allen standing in the corner for 2 full seconds before draining one of his 7 threes.

KG hugging Bill Russell at the end saying "I got mine" was the best part.

After the game we smoked victory cigars in honor of Red.

[joekix]

just like you said, their young. they would have been the youngest team since 1980, had they won this series. let's see what happens next year before making rash decisions. phil is phil, and that's that. in game 4, i wish he would have called a t.o. to stop the bleeding, but does he ever? remember that game against the hornets at the end of the season when they almost blew that lead? he wouldn't call a t.o. and they were lucky to escape with a victory.

boston was just the better team. in the reg. season, they owned the west and the lakers. 3 all-stars vs. 1. odom has the "goods", but lacks something. i dunno what, but dude just lacks something. pau is just soft. he needs to get mentally tough. the rest of the lakes are just young and will learn from this experience. just be patient and next season will be here soon enough.

this series just made me realize how good lebron james is. i know allen was off in that series, but that game 7 in that series was just AWESOME.

[joekix]

I looked around and realized there didn't seem to be a thread for the current NBA season. (If there is and I missed it, I'm happy to close this one and join it.) Of course we're about halfway into the season already, but I figured we could jump right into it anyway. :cool:

Potential topics: What will the rest of the West do in response to the Gasol trade? What about today's rumors that Shaq might go to Phoenix? Who else could get traded before the trading deadline at the end of the month? Can the Celtics keep their momentum going through the playoffs? Will someone in New York finally fire Isiah Thomas?

Oh, and go Lakers! :D

you know, i was the second to post in this thread, and it didn't come 'till after another 2 months. we came a long way. this season was fun. also, when they lose, we don't lose anything. just like when the win. i don't get a check. they're still millionaires while i'm just a special ed teacher who enjoys watching the lakers. :) thanks for starting the thread. can't wait for the 2008-2009 thread.

[zioxide]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/TECurran88/SoSH%20Stuff/pg2_g_auerbach_300.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/ac/fullj.b7d44d062cf3970c3bf26abb967e831e/b7d44d062cf3970c3bf26abb967e831e-getty-80398146jm129_nba_finals_ga.jpg

Red would approve.

[joekix]

What a ****ing joke.

KG is such a phony. He's just like A-Rod in the playoffs. I hope he can prove me wrong, but it doesn't look like it.

At least when we lose this series, we can fire Doc Rivers and get a coach that doesn't suck.

lol!!!

back on the bandwagon...


go lakers!!!

lol!!!

[fotografica]

Biggest mismatch?


Phil Jackson vs. Doc Rivers

So called Zen Master got owned,schooled and turned out like a $20 ho in this series..Not only did they cough up a 24 point lead at home and lose,in an elimination game on the road,they barely showed up.....

[benmrii]

Red would approve.

Indeed. And not only because another part of this story was keeping Phil Jackson from surpassing him with most championship wins as a coach.

Congratulations Celtics. The better team and you could just tell from the opening minutes that they simply wanted it more. That game was amazing. When KG got fouled hard and tossed up the one hander that slammed against the backboard and through the net as he slammed into the ground I knew it was over.

[Joel Beason]

i knew it all along nice job celtics! now people can stop trying to compare kobe to MJ

[MacNut]

One thing I was thinking was how the NBA had changed in the past 20 years. Something was missing in this series. The old NBA had more compassion for the game that I don't feel exists anymore. Nothing can live up to the Bird Magic showdowns. Maybe big money has gotten in the way of how the game should be played. Too many stars with egos not enough passion.

[benmrii]

One thing I was thinking was how the NBA had changed in the past 20 years. Something was missing in this series. The old NBA had more compassion for the game that I don't feel exists anymore. Nothing can live up to the Bird Magic showdowns. Maybe big money has gotten in the way of how the game should be played. Too many stars with egos not enough passion.

I was a bit young to perhaps fully appreciate the Bird Magic rivalry, but one of the things I enjoyed specifically about this series was the passion the Celtics brought to the court, was the teamwork above individual the Celtics brought to the series and post-season.

I agree with what you are saying, it is why I no longer follow the NBA until the post-season (and that sparingly, last night was the first game I've watched all year). But even with that qualifier, I still saw the hunger and passion that I miss from the Celtics. And not seeing it from the Lakers was a big part of why they lost, IMO.

[aloofman]

One thing I was thinking was how the NBA had changed in the past 20 years. Something was missing in this series. The old NBA had more compassion for the game that I don't feel exists anymore. Nothing can live up to the Bird Magic showdowns. Maybe big money has gotten in the way of how the game should be played. Too many stars with egos not enough passion.

People have been saying that about every sport for over a hundred years. Somehow everyone remembers the past as being better when it comes to sports.

[benmrii]

People have been saying that about every sport for over a hundred years. Somehow everyone remembers the past as being better when it comes to sports.

I don't know what you're talking about...

... by the way, be sure to check in with the MLB thread for discussions about how the DH and potential addition of instant replay are hurting the sport. :D

[MacNut]

People have been saying that about every sport for over a hundred years. Somehow everyone remembers the past as being better when it comes to sports.The Dunk really took away the offense and made it a run and done sport. It has become more glitz than strategy.

I don't know what you're talking about...

... by the way, be sure to check in with the MLB thread for discussions about how the DH and potential addition of instant replay are hurting the sport. :DThat reminds me....

[aloofman]

The Dunk really took away the offense and made it a run and done sport. It has become more glitz than strategy.


I know exactly where you can find strategy basketball instead of glitz. It's called women's basketball. If you think the men's game should be like that, then you're in a very small minority.

[MacNut]

I know exactly where you can find strategy basketball instead of glitz. It's called women's basketball. If you think the men's game should be like that, then you're in a very small minority.Your right, women's basketball is more of a floor game rather than air. Is it a better game, that is debatable. If you like to see the dunk watch the men, if you like more of a team sport watch the women. Another aspect is that the women play for the love of the game, the men play for the money. Look at the college game. Kids are leaving after a year and going pro. That hurts the collage game in the long run. I guess that can be said of all sports, it is all about money now.

Another problem with the NBA is the lack of quality, you have 4 great teams and everyone else sucks. Look at the eastern conference.

[aloofman]

Your right, women's basketball is more of a floor game rather than air. Is it a better game, that is debatable. If you like to see the dunk watch the men, if you like more of a team sport watch the women. Another aspect is that the women play for the love of the game, the men play for the money. Look at the college game. Kids are leaving after a year and going pro. That hurts the collage game in the long run. I guess that can be said of all sports, it is all about money now.


Even most of the people who want to see the "team sport" won't watch women's basketball. It isn't entertaining enough for all but a small number of basketball fans. That's not really the choice they're being offered.

I don't really get where the curmudgeonliness is coming from though. Taking the dunk out of basketball would be like taking the home run out of baseball. You could do it, but hardly anyone would like the results. When Babe Ruth came along there were people who decried what he was doing to the game, but the game grew and changed with the times. To expect basketball to ban the dunk might have made sense in 1957, but not now.

The money complaint is so tiresome. If women could make millions of dollars playing basketball, they would do it. Do you really think that if 22-year-old Mickey Mantle was transported to today's game that he would play only for love of the game and turn down today's salaries? They didn't get that money because they couldn't. Now players can. It is what it is. If you and I didn't spend so much time and money on sports, then they'd be making peanuts.

[MacNut]

Before big money contracts were involved players were not going after the highest dollar. They were playing because they loved the sport. Were they under payed, probably, but the game play was different as well.

[rhett7660]

Was it me, or did it look the like the Lakers didn't even show up the game 6? It was hard to watch. Talk about a freaking blow out.

Congrates Celtics...

[decksnap]

After watching that series, I am convinced that even the Pistons are a far better team than the Lakers. I am not sure what that says about the rest of the teams in the West though. Are they really worse than the Lakers?

[fotografica]

Was it me, or did it look the like the Lakers didn't even show up the game 6? It was hard to watch. Talk about a freaking blow out.

Congrates Celtics...

Lakers had just two offensive boards the entire game..They didn't get their first until the fourth quarter.Not showing up is an understatement..

[aloofman]

Before big money contracts were involved players were not going after the highest dollar. They were playing because they loved the sport. Were they under payed, probably, but the game play was different as well.

You're dreaming. Players were trying to get as much money as they possibly could. They just weren't able to in the days before arbitration or free agency. Either a player accepted what the team offered or they didn't play next season. Very few players were good enough to actually hold out for more money, but even they were only getting an offer from one team, not bids from multiple teams. People imagine that the old days were better because players weren't rich and spoiled. But is it right that almost all of the major leaguers had winter jobs because baseball didn't pay enough to support their families? While the owners were making money hand over fist? In no other profession in the U.S. were employees prevented from working for someone else the way major leaguers were back then. It was indentured servitude.

Was it me, or did it look the like the Lakers didn't even show up the game 6? It was hard to watch. Talk about a freaking blow out.


It pains me to say it, but I agree. After Posey and House hit back-to-back, wide-open threes in the second quarter, they pretty much stopped playing defense in any way. It doesn't bother me that they lost to the team that played better, since that's how it should be. It bothers me that they let themselves be embarrassed. It hurts much worse than the 2004 loss to the Pistons.

I don't think it's really a commentary on the relative strength of the Pistons or the rest of the Western Conference. I think it's a matter of the Celtics' defense thoroughly disrupting the Lakers' offense. If you think about it, it's a lot like how the Giants beat the Patriots in the last Super Bowl. The Lakers were used to running their offense a certain way and the Nuggets, Jazz and Spurs were unable to slow it down enough. The Celtics figured out how. The Lakers were used to out-rebounding their opponents, as they had almost all season, but the Celtics turned that around. Fewer rebounds meant fewer transition baskets, more half-court defense, and fewer possessions, all of which helped screw up the Lakers' scoring. The Lakers looked around at each other and said, "It's not working like it's supposed to. What's Plan B?" There was no Plan B. I'm tempted (as I was earlier today) to pin this on Phil Jackson, but one really can't expect any team to completely alter their game plan at the end of the season and expect it to succeed.

I also think the Celtics used the first few rounds to mold their team for playoff-style basketball. Most of the Celtics' rotation wasn't on the team last season, and it took them a while to gel for the postseason game. In contrast, the Lakers only got two new players in the last year that get much playing time: Ariza and Gasol. Ariza is just barely back from injury and couldn't have much impact. Gasol's arrival went so well in the regular season that no adjustments seemed necessary.

If the Celtics were playing like they did against the Hawks in the first round, the Lakers would have won the finals. I'm not saying that to take anything away from them. Championship teams get better as the playoffs go on and play their best when it's most needed. The Celtics did it and the Lakers definitely didn't.

It's amazing how much things can turn suddenly in the playoffs though. Except for Game 6, the teams were closer than they appeared. If the Lakers complete the comeback in Game 2, does the Game 4 collapse still happen? If the Lakers had won both of those games (which was not implausible), suddenly it's the Celtics that are on the ropes. But that's why the playoffs matter so much. Lose one game and the whole series can go south. You can't give away games and expect to win the title.

[zioxide]

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/06/17/1213753864_7095-1.jpg

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2750/kgwheatiesnd0.jpg

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/06/17/1213756388_9996.jpg

[zioxide]

just got back from the parade.. it was ****ing awesome.

pictures coming soon

[cycocelica]

SuperSonics Leave Seattle (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3471503)

I don't really like the NBA but this is ****ing ********. **** that. I feel sorry for all the people who supported the Sonics and loved them. They have been let down by one of their own.

Oh and it's really good to see the government really uphold a legal binding document (not that this is new).

I hope Clay Bennett rots in hell. And I hope OKC is a major let down and Bennett goes broke. **** them. It would be nice to see David Stern die too.

*Phew* And I don't even like the NBA.

Edit: Read the story again, realized it wasnt the judges fault. All else stands.