AT&T Expanding Their 3G Network in 2008

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

AT&T announced (http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/02/06/afx4621793.html) today that they will be deploying third generation (3G) wireless broadband service to more than 80 additional cities as part of its 2008 wireless network expansion plans.

This will bring 3G services to nearly 250 U.S. markets by the end of 2008, including the top 100 U.S. cities.

This news is relevant, in that Apple users AT&T as their exclusive iPhone carrier in the U.S. and has a multi-year commitment with them. One of the main criticisms of the iPhone when it was launched was a lack of 3G networking, which is typically much faster than the EGDE network that is presently offered with the iPhone.

AT&T's CEO confirmed (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/29/3g-iphone-due-in-2008/) that the 3G iPhone would become available in 2008, confirming comments by Steve Jobs at the original iPhone launch that Apple planned on making "3g phones and all sorts of other amazing things in the future".

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/06/atandt-expanding-their-3g-network-in-2008/)

[Boz22885]

OK, this is all great and dandy. I have an iPhone with Edge just like everyone does. How does the news about 3G help me though? How do I get an iPhone with 3G?

[chubad]

Bring it on!:apple:

[chubad]

OK, this is all great and dandy. I have an iPhone with Edge just like everyone does. How does the news about 3G help me though? How do I get an iPhone with 3G?

It doesn't.

You wait until the iPhone with 3G is released and you buy one. :)

[bhop123]

Looks like iPhone V2 at Macworld 09.

[aross99]

Is there some place we can find out what areas are going to get 3G?

On iPhone launch day, my AT&T store told me that we wouldn't get it until 2009 at the earliest...

[Avatar74]

OK, this is all great and dandy. I have an iPhone with Edge just like everyone does. How does the news about 3G help me though? How do I get an iPhone with 3G?

You buy one with the understanding that it, too, will someday soon be outdated.

Or you go back in time and tell yourself not to be so goddamned gadget crazy and wait until the 3G iPhone comes out.

... Whichever is more plausible.

[supremedesigner]

It doesn't.

You wait until the iPhone with 3G is released and you buy one. :)

Actually, there is a possibly that your V1 phone will still run on 3G network. Why? Before I send my iPhone to Apple for repair - I took out simcard and I noticed it said "3G" so I assumed it is already pre-3G on every iPhone. We'll see what happen.

[nemaslov]

OMG Now let's hear from all the whiners who just bought a new upgraded iPhone yesterday. There will always be something better tomorrow. Enjoy the use out of your purchase and ****!!! :mad:

[Avatar74]

Is there some place we can find out what areas are going to get 3G?

On iPhone launch day, my AT&T store told me that we wouldn't get it until 2009 at the earliest...

They're pulling dates out of their ass.

Even Apple's own retail outlets do not know any details about product launches until Apple corporate announces an exact date or until the day of deployment (as with the 16GB iPhone).

[MacNut]

Maybe AT&T should just join in on WiMAX. Isn't 3G old tech by now.

[nemaslov]

OK, this is all great and dandy. I have an iPhone with Edge just like everyone does. How does the news about 3G help me though? How do I get an iPhone with 3G?

You wait until Apple release one, later this year, and then you buy it! Kind of a stupid question.

[psychofreak]

Actually, there is a possibly that your V1 phone will still run on 3G network. Why? Before I send my iPhone to Apple for repair - I took out simcard and I noticed it said "3G" so I assumed it is already pre-3G on every iPhone. We'll see what happen.

The current iPhone has no 3G hardware inside, no matter what the SIM shows. This was proven around one day after the iPhone was released to the public.

[DroppedCalls]

Thats great to hear...i guess....so does that mean there will be a roll out of more towers!?...I hope so...b/c I get at least 5-6 dropped calls everyday! EVEN OUTDOORS!

[porky]

Battery is now also finished after 1 day. I have to charge it every night. Ohwell maybe because i'm an heavy iphone user :)

[Blubbert]

Actually, there is a possibly that your V1 phone will still run on 3G network. Why? Before I send my iPhone to Apple for repair - I took out simcard and I noticed it said "3G" so I assumed it is already pre-3G on every iPhone. We'll see what happen.

To use 3G, you need apropriate hardware. Just because your sim card says 3G on it doesn't mean that the phone is capable of supporting 3G.

[supremedesigner]

To use 3G, you need apropriate hardware. Just because your sim card says 3G on it doesn't mean that the phone is capable of supporting 3G.

Then why did Apple put "3G" thing on simcard? To confuse us more? I think they need to be careful what to put on simcard - otherwise I believe there will be class suits/lawsuits for this.

[Jarra]

I would just be happy to get any iphone down here.:)

[AlphaAnt]

Then why did Apple put "3G" thing on simcard? To confuse us more? I think they need to be careful what to put on simcard - otherwise I believe there will be class suits/lawsuits for this.

Apple didn't make the SIM cards, AT&T did, and they have a lot of other products that offer 3G, such as the LG 405.

In all fairness, though, RIM hasn't released an AT&T 3G Blackberry yet; I suspect when either RIM or Apple moves to 3G, the other won't be too far behind.

[eastcoastsurfer]

Jobs is probably pissed the ATT CEO mentioned the 3g. I'm sure he'd pull their contract now if he could. My current cell contract comes up in 2 months. I was considering an iphone, but now I'm going to wait for the 3g phone.

[amac4me]

Things are lining up nicely that favor a 3G iPhone launch by June. Will Apple release a 32GB 3G iPhone at that time?

[MacNut]

Jobs is probably pissed the ATT CEO mentioned the 3g. I'm sure he'd pull their contract now if he could. My current cell contract comes up in 2 months. I was considering an iphone, but now I'm going to wait for the 3g phone.Why is AT&T so behind the curve in the first place, they are just now starting a 3G network while others are already working on 4G.

[chicagostars]

They're pulling dates out of their ass.

Even Apple's own retail outlets do not know any details about product launches until Apple corporate announces an exact date or until the day of deployment (as with the 16GB iPhone).

A little snarky, and very dead on. Product launch info from the retail stores is pure speculation. The employees get much of their info from rumor sites, just like the general public.

[mikesiPhone]

what is all the hype about?

[MacFly123]

They're pulling dates out of their ass.

Even Apple's own retail outlets do not know any details about product launches until Apple corporate announces an exact date or until the day of deployment (as with the 16GB iPhone).

This WWDC and will ship one to two months after the announcement :)

[Shannighan]

if its the top 100 citys, like the artice said, mine will finaly get 3g! which doesnt matter since the iphone doesnt have 3G. BUT if and when we do ill problaby sell mine off and buy a new one.

[O and A]

Then why did Apple put "3G" thing on simcard? To confuse us more? I think they need to be careful what to put on simcard - otherwise I believe there will be class suits/lawsuits for this.


Again apple didn't put the 3g on the sim card ATT did. Why would their be any lawsuits? Where did apple advertisie or ever claim the iphone was a 3g device? What is your logic here?

No 3G hardware means no 3G support. Its not happening in the current phones. Everyone knew this from day one.

[happydude]

OK, this is all great and dandy. I have an iPhone with Edge just like everyone does. How does the news about 3G help me though? How do I get an iPhone with 3G?

you get to buy a new one when they come out!!!

[Rot'nApple]

Anyone have an idea if the AT&T Unlimited Data Plans are going to increase from the current rates? ie. $59.00/mo, for Unlimited AT&T Edge versus $xx.xx/mo, for Unlimited AT&T 3G?

What are the differences for other mobile carriers ie. Sprint, Verizon, etc.?

[overcast]

Then why did Apple put "3G" thing on simcard? To confuse us more? I think they need to be careful what to put on simcard - otherwise I believe there will be class suits/lawsuits for this.
Were you actually aware of what you wrote before you hit submit?

[Shannighan]

i doubt it but i wonder if apple will have an upgrade option.

[AlphaAnt]

Why is AT&T so behind the curve in the first place, they are just now starting a 3G network while others are already working on 4G.

Sprint's Xohm WiMAX implementation is not likely to end up built into phones anytime soon, as they're marketing it as a home-network option as competition to DSL and Cable internet services, and the power consumption on it is likely to be higher by a good bit than AT&T's HSDPA.

As far as qualifying it as a 4G network, even that is questionable due to how they are implementing it.

[O and A]

Why is AT&T so behind the curve in the first place, they are just now starting a 3G network while others are already working on 4G.

Well regardless of when they have network (which they already do. they just don't have the coverage) apple made it clear that an iphone with 3G hardware would have been a little bulkier and have less battery life.

I think that announce we heard a few months back about an integrated 3g chipset was the thing apple was waiting for.

That hardware combined with intels new ultra mobile chips should certainly make for a killer iphone2.

[asdavis10]

3G and a 32GB model to be released at the same time. Let's hope. And as for all the people crying about the iPhone being updated too frequently and having buyers remorse, suck it up. Tech is outdated the day development stops on a project for they have already started working on its replacement. And its not like they dropped the price on the 8GB iPhone and moved the 16GB model to that price point. This year will probably truly test your fanboy metal with all the upgrades Apple is going to unveil. So suck it up.

[Baron58]

Then why did Apple put "3G" thing on simcard? To confuse us more? I think they need to be careful what to put on simcard - otherwise I believe there will be class suits/lawsuits for this.

Why, because *you* don't understand what you read? :rolleyes:

It's the THIRD GENERATION of SIM cards.

[chicagostars]

Things are lining up nicely that favor a 3G iPhone launch by June. Will Apple release a 32GB 3G iPhone at that time?

Still a bit skeptical of a 3G iPhone coming that soon. Seems that there are things that could influence the timeline from either direction, though. Among them: the desire to enter the East Asian market (pro) and devising a strategy to placate early adopters (con).

Any other thoughts on what would influence this anticipated release?

[ebouwman]

Then why did Apple put "3G" thing on simcard? To confuse us more? I think they need to be careful what to put on simcard - otherwise I believe there will be class suits/lawsuits for this.

Well what would you sue them with? If you took the sim card out of the phone and looked at it, and then could base your purchasing decision on that, then maybe apple could get sued.

Well i haven't actually seen an iPhone too closely because i'm in canada, but it seems to me that the sim card should be pretty well tucked away in there so almost nobody should actually see what's written on there.

And also, could you sue a car dealer if there was an "i" on your car somewhere and it turned out that it wasn't fuel injected?

Things are lining up nicely that favor a 3G iPhone launch by June. Will Apple release a 32GB 3G iPhone at that time?

My guess is no way in hell :P

[Doctor Q]

Are chipsets now low-enough power enough to swing the tradeoffs that Steve Jobs told us about in June 2007?

[ReanimationLP]

Will it not suck as bad now? :3

3G in my area (Severn, MD), depending on where you are in a street, you'll either get EDGE or 3G.

[justflie]

Sweet. But now we need to wait anxiously for WWDC :( 3G is waiting for me!

[tuftywhite]

My head says 'wait' my wallet says 'buy'.

AAAAAAaaaaggggggggghhhhhh.

Should I buy or should I wait,
If I buy I'll have one now,
If I wait I'll have 3G.

May be I'll get some cans and some string. Not ordinary string, no, superfast high fidelity string for better reception. What if they then bring out broad string?

Man, I hate dilemmas.

[drb6]

This is great news. It means the first obstacle to iPhone 2 is removed, AT&T will be ready for it. Next are the technological obstacles...battery consumption, size etc. Any idea how the integrated 3G chipset someone mentioned lets apple get over these issues?

However, this confounds my plans of going in for an iPhone next month. My contract is expired and but I don't want to get into a new one with AT&T without the iPhone.

[bogman12]

Haha all the 3G iphones can laugh at the pre-3G iphones.

[dlastmango]

does anyone know of a list of cities At&t plans to add?

[sterlingindigo]

I love my iPhone and am SURE gonna love my 3G iPhone. Hope there is some kind of trade up program going on at the time. Otherwise, should I expect to be on a 3 year AT&T plan? Think AT&T will be unlocking 1G iPhones at that point?

[Arcus]

Now if they could only fix their voice service in the Phila / South Jersey area Id be set.

[stevegmu]

Any other thoughts on what would influence this anticipated release?

People will have their tax rebate/stimulus/welfare checks by then.

[Rocketman]

I know everybody has been talking up 3G since before the iPhione launch, but . . .

EDGE is fully deployed now and very widely indeed. It is as fast in actual practice as 3G. AT&T is ramping up EDGE bandwidth increases market by market and some day EDGE will itself be twice as fast.

3G is just now being deployed in major markets. Not widely. If you are in a big city and use a phone locally then 3G is an interesting future feature. But iPhone as it exists right now with EDGE is the device of the near-present-and future.

3G does use more power and we may see something akin to an airport card for Mac CPU's that does 802.11, 3G, and EDGE since Macs are a mobile-crippled device as compared to a mere iPhone right now.

I want my iPhone not-nano as my PRIMARY device.

Rocketman

[ravenvii]

lulz @ teh CEO sayin' 'doggone'

[manhattanboy]

I cannot believe that the ATT CEO let slip that 3G iphones are coming by year's end. Why would anyone buy an iphone now???
For those who have used 3G (like EVDO) versus EDGE I can tell you plainly that the difference is remarkable.
Us 3G users don't want just the ability to browse faster but want the ability to stream video and audio and teleconference like in Europe.
And I would not mind a BT DUN this time JOBS.
:cool:

[imwoblin]

I would have to see a substantial increase in speed for me to ditch my edge iPhone, especially considering ATT will probably make us sign another 2 year commitment. Now if we can get Apple stock to move higher! ( down to $122 today ) :eek:

[numediaman]

Haha all the 3G iphones can laugh at the pre-3G iphones.

Wow, in your world phones can laugh at each other. Can I move to where you live?

[yayaba]

I know everybody has been talking up 3G since before the iPhione launch, but . . .

EDGE is fully deployed now and very widely indeed. It is as fast in actual practice as 3G. AT&T is ramping up EDGE bandwidth increases market by market and some day EDGE will itself be twice as fast.

3G is just now being deployed in major markets. Not widely. If you are in a big city and use a phone locally then 3G is an interesting future feature. But iPhone as it exists right now with EDGE is the device of the near-present-and future.

Rocketman

Whoa, watch what you're saying.

EDGE is indeed pretty much everywhere. But it has a theoretical bandwidth maximum that is still far, far less than 3G. I'm not sure what it is but it's around 250kbits/sec. That's the cap as to how fast EDGE can go just because of the technology.

3G I believe can go up to 600-800 kbits/sec while 3.5G (HSDPA) can go way higher than that, 1000-3000 kbits/sec. Again, don't quote me on these numbers but I believe it's around those figures.

The only thing 3G cannot fix is latency times. So casual browsing across lots of pages aren't going to be that much faster unless the page size is huge. That's where the faster bandwidth helps in downloading the page.

[yayaba]

I don't know why this has to be reiterated but there is no way the current iPhone can do 3G (short of adding a dongle on the 30 pin connector. There just isn't a 3G radio inside. The SIM card having 3G printed on it means nothing. That's just the same SIM AT&T uses for all their phones.

[MacBoySeattle]

You Apple fools are a naïve and interesting bunch. For all the posters out there with limited knowledge of what is actually REAL: AT&T has had a 3G network up in major markets for YEARS now. LOL when the IPhone was released with slow EDGE we had had 3G in Seattle for about a full year if not more. Then Jobs filled your little naïve Apple fool heads with "oh no 3G will sap the battery life that's why we didn't include it" LOL. Somebody should tell Jobs and you that there were a bunch of 3G phones out already at the iphone launch, including smart phones like the Blackjack 1 and even cheapo phones like entry level Motorola and Nokia phones. How deluded are you sheep? Now its one year later and 3G chipsets are so ubiqutous and cheap that they are included in Free phones, and the sheep still walk around thinking its some new technology. AT&T isn't launching their 3G network you fools, they are just expanding it in new cities. Its not something new. Apple as usual is fancy looking graphical garbage with old low tech technology.

[kingtj]

AT&T traditionally had little interest in cellular's success. Their entire "empire" was built and maintained on land-line phones and service like DSL over copper wire pairs, T1 and T3 circuits, etc.

When they finally stepped into the cellular arena, they did so by buying out Cingular Wireless, who really didn't have that great of a network in place.

To this day, I wonder if there's perhaps a bit of "conflict of interest" internally at AT&T when it comes to providing a highly reliable cellular network. At least *some* people in the company surely like the idea perpetuated that cellphones aren't "reliable enough" to justify canceling your home phone service, in favor of them. Their "best business model" is probably a place where their cellular service works "good enough to keep most of their customers" but not *quite* good enough to stop you from keeping BOTH a cellphone and a land-line.

In any case though, AT&T has their work cut out for them, after taking over Cingular. The wireless network of theirs in my city is spotty at best, and I'm in St. Louis, Missouri -- not exactly a "small town". I can almost count on a dropped call in 1 or 2 spots along Interstate 44 as I drive west from the downtown area. I get practically no signal at all inside my workplace, and a wildly varying signal strength if I go outside in our parking lot.

Their EDGE network varies widely in performance too, although I typically find it "molasses slow" pulling up any web content. Oddly, there seem to be specific places I can go and get a pretty "snappy" EDGE experience. It seems like they've only got a few towers upgraded for good EDGE performance or something.


Why is AT&T so behind the curve in the first place, they are just now starting a 3G network while others are already working on 4G.

[latestmonkey]

You Apple fools are a naïve and interesting bunch. For all the posters out there with limited knowledge of what is actually REAL: AT&T has had a 3G network up in major markets for YEARS now. LOL when the IPhone was released with slow EDGE we had had 3G in Seattle for about a full year if not more. Then Jobs filled your little naïve Apple fool heads with "oh no 3G will sap the battery life that's why we didn't include it" LOL. Somebody should tell Jobs and you that there were a bunch of 3G phones out already at the iphone launch, including smart phones like the Blackjack 1 and even cheapo phones like entry level Motorola and Nokia phones. How deluded are you sheep? Now its one year later and 3G chipsets are so ubiqutous and cheap that they are included in Free phones, and the sheep still walk around thinking its some new technology. AT&T isn't launching their 3G network you fools, they are just expanding it in new cities. Its not something new. Apple as usual is fancy looking graphical garbage with old low tech technology.


Hey does this board support ignoring posts by certain members? This guy is absolutely useless. Same song and dance in every thread. It's like cuts and pastes and just replaces product names.

Personally, I will be first in line when the 3g iphone is announced. if it's as early as june, awesome.

[MacBoySeattle]

I also had to laugh at the fool who thought EDGE was state of the art and would match 3G. Lol dude if you don't know what you're talking about go do some frickin research. EDGE is a 2.5G add on to GSM and has a real world max output of about 300kbps in the final EDGE deployment that AT&T is rolling out. 3G UMTS HSDPA that AT&T is/has rolled out has a throughput of 7.2Mbps. Now I don't know where you went to school dude, but 200K aint 7.2Mbps. Do some research.

[tothelimit]

I don't know why this has to be reiterated but there is no way the current iPhone can do 3G (short of adding a dongle on the 30 pin connector. There just isn't a 3G radio inside. The SIM card having 3G printed on it means nothing. That's just the same SIM AT&T uses for all their phones.

The sim cards snap out of a business card sized plastic card which displays the fact that AT&T offers 3G network coverage. Its just AT&T's little 'blazing 3g' logo that they like to stick on things. Makes them feel special. Nothing more/nothing less.

I read an earlier post saying it was the 3rd generation of sim cards - wow ... thats all i can say... wow

[kingtj]

I, for one, am well aware that 3G phones were quite common at the time the iPhone was released. So were MANY people who went on to buy one anyway. We did so because we knew that OTHER aspects of the phone were revolutionary, DESPITE the EDGE network being a negative.

The whole industry has been scrambling to create knock-offs of Apple's touch-screen technology since it came out. And more importantly, it provides a "smartphone" that actually works as advertised! I owned a Palm Treo 650, a 600, and a couple of Kyocera smartphones before my iPhone ... and NONE of them lived up to any of their promised functionality. The Treos were constantly crashing or freezing up, and the Kyoceras couldn't even run quite a few of the PalmOS apps out there, despite claiming to be Palm devices!

And as others have said too, the 3G speed is only really useful when you're downloading large files. It'll be nice for those photos or videos someone attaches to an email you're downloading, but the latency issues will prevent web browsing from working much better than EDGE does. (The average web page consists of dozens of little files that have to be individually downloaded and put together on the screen as a page.)

Apple is "fancy graphical garbage with old, low tech" inside? Wow... not sure where to even begin with that one. I'll just say the pair of 2.8Ghz quad-core Xeon CPUs in my new Mac Pro are *hardly* old, outdated tech. though! Oh, and Apple was among the first to adopt draft wireless n standards, offering a router that was rated "best in class" by several web sites, including arstechnica (NOT a strictly "Mac" site, mind you). But hey, think whatever makes you happy, ok?


You Apple fools are a naïve and interesting bunch. For all the posters out there with limited knowledge of what is actually REAL: AT&T has had a 3G network up in major markets for YEARS now. LOL when the IPhone was released with slow EDGE we had had 3G in Seattle for about a full year if not more. Then Jobs filled your little naïve Apple fool heads with "oh no 3G will sap the battery life that's why we didn't include it" LOL. Somebody should tell Jobs and you that there were a bunch of 3G phones out already at the iphone launch, including smart phones like the Blackjack 1 and even cheapo phones like entry level Motorola and Nokia phones. How deluded are you sheep? Now its one year later and 3G chipsets are so ubiqutous and cheap that they are included in Free phones, and the sheep still walk around thinking its some new technology. AT&T isn't launching their 3G network you fools, they are just expanding it in new cities. Its not something new. Apple as usual is fancy looking graphical garbage with old low tech technology.

[drb6]

Why is this guy even a 'member'? Why bother wasting time with us Apple fools?


You Apple fools are a naïve and interesting bunch. For all the posters out there with limited knowledge of what is actually REAL: AT&T has had a 3G network up in major markets for YEARS now. LOL when the IPhone was released with slow EDGE we had had 3G in Seattle for about a full year if not more. Then Jobs filled your little naïve Apple fool heads with "oh no 3G will sap the battery life that's why we didn't include it" LOL. Somebody should tell Jobs and you that there were a bunch of 3G phones out already at the iphone launch, including smart phones like the Blackjack 1 and even cheapo phones like entry level Motorola and Nokia phones. How deluded are you sheep? Now its one year later and 3G chipsets are so ubiqutous and cheap that they are included in Free phones, and the sheep still walk around thinking its some new technology. AT&T isn't launching their 3G network you fools, they are just expanding it in new cities. Its not something new. Apple as usual is fancy looking graphical garbage with old low tech technology.

[MacNut]

Why is this guy even a 'member'? Why bother wasting time with us Apple fools?A good point was made, 3G is not new tech, AT&T is just behind the curve in implementing it. If they were on the ball Apple would of have to use 3G in the iPhone. The fact that it wasn't available really screwed things up. Now AT&T is going to be behind the curve again while other networks are working on 4G they will just be pushing 3G.

[MacBoySeattle]

A good point was made, 3G is not new tech, AT&T is just behind the curve in implementing it. If they were on the ball Apple would of have to use 3G in the iPhone. The fact that it wasn't available really screwed things up. Now AT&T is going to be behind the curve again while other networks are working on 4G they will just be pushing 3G.

I hate to break it to you, but not only was 3G deployed by AT&T well prior to the iphone launch in major cities, at the iphone launch there were a bunch of 3G phones out by AT&T including smart phones.Seattle had 3G UMTS from AT&T since 2004.

[frankly]

Battery is now also finished after 1 day. I have to charge it every night. Ohwell maybe because i'm an heavy iphone user :)

Consider yourself lucky. I had to recharge my Treo BEFORE the end of the day until I bought an ultra high capacity battery for it. Now I only have to charge it when I go to bed. The iPhone has excellent battery life for a smartphone, especially one that has a massive 3.5" screen and all the other features.

[alexandr]

A good point was made, 3G is not new tech, AT&T is just behind the curve in implementing it. If they were on the ball Apple would of have to use 3G in the iPhone. The fact that it wasn't available really screwed things up. Now AT&T is going to be behind the curve again while other networks are working on 4G they will just be pushing 3G.

where does it say anything about 3G being a new tech??

[frankly]

Then why did Apple put "3G" thing on simcard? To confuse us more? I think they need to be careful what to put on simcard - otherwise I believe there will be class suits/lawsuits for this.

That argument is ridiculous on its face. The fact is that it is easier for AT&T to make one type of SIM card that is compatible with their highest level of service and is also backwards compatible with everything before that. This way they only make one type and it is much easier for them to activate new phones. Can you imagine what a pain it would be for them to have to keep stock of many different types of SIM cards?

Nowhere on any website, box, or literature does it even come close to claiming that the iPhone is 3G. In fact, they go out of their way to tell you that it works on the EDGE network. The fact that you thought it was 3G ready simply because the SIM card is a 3G ready SIM card is ridiculous. AT&T already has 3G networks in place, they just don't have a lot of them. So why would the iPhone not advertise this if it already had the chips in place? What sense does that make?

[twoodcc]

so i guess everyone with an iPhone now will not be happy. but that's just how technology works i guess

[11800506]

A good point was made, 3G is not new tech, AT&T is just behind the curve in implementing it. If they were on the ball Apple would of have to use 3G in the iPhone. The fact that it wasn't available really screwed things up. Now AT&T is going to be behind the curve again while other networks are working on 4G they will just be pushing 3G.

Verizon is already working on 4G (LTE) with Vodafone which will transition them to GSM, which will be good for their phones. Hopefully, with 4G GSM, Verizon customers will finally get some good phones right after they are released, where as now, consumers have to wait for the phones to be converted to CDMA.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071129-verizon-decides-on-lte-for-4g-wireless-broadband.html

[CubeHacker]

Somehow I don't think we'll see a 3G iPhone this year. Battery life was the main concern then, and i'm pretty sure it still is now. Every phone that i've seen released this year still shows half the talk time on 3G UMTS/HSDPA compared to 2G GSM. And i've yet to see any announcement of advances in power usage for 3G chipsets. So, unless Apple has access to special unreleased 3G chipsets that no one else does, I don't think we'll see 3G anytime soon.

That is, unless Apple feels so pressured to release a 3G iPhone that they will make one regardless of the battery life.

[maokh]

EDGE is indeed pretty much everywhere. But it has a theoretical bandwidth maximum that is still far, far less than 3G. I'm not sure what it is but it's around 250kbits/sec. That's the cap as to how fast EDGE can go just because of the technology.

You are correct about at&t's network..but..here's the kicker..The EDGE air interface actually can operate at "3G" speeds, but it was cost prohibitive at the time of deployment. Now we all know a redesign is a moot point. There are a lot of factors at play that can make EDGE suck. Its amazing that at&t was able to fix at least some of the issues to give us our 200kbps average data rate on our iphones. Before, the EDGE network could barely top 85kbps.

The only thing 3G cannot fix is latency times.

3G will fix latency a great deal. It wont be perfect, but 100-150ms is a lot better than EDGE's over half second latency + tons of jitter. The GSM 3G takes a lot of steps to treat data as a real data service and significantly reduce latency.

And one final comment about UMTS and "power consumption". A lot of things are changing in the UMTS world, and unfortunately, a lot of things changed slightly after/during apple's final chipset selection.

Two developments: chips with smaller, lower power consumption (some which rival even GSM TDMA idle power consumption) and HSUPA.

Honestly, i think apple's product cycles for the iphone are just in time for these new developments.

Does it matter that we have EDGE? no. we already know the phone can render pages faster than UMTS phones anyway. This is a great ace up their sleeve for the next product cycle.

And please, enough of the WiMax talk. WiMax is a piece of garbage -- especially for voice technologies. If you had a WiMax phone, i doubt you'd even last a week before canceling the service. It also makes a poor mobile data service as well. GSM and CDMA air interfaces are much superior in their scalability and robustness in mobile wireless environments.

[Kwill]

I cannot believe that the ATT CEO let slip that 3G iphones are coming by year's end. Why would anyone buy an iphone now???


Because they don't have and need one now. ;)

[stevegmu]

I cannot believe that the ATT CEO let slip that 3G iphones are coming by year's end. Why would anyone buy an iphone now???


Some people want products now, rather than waiting around who knows how long for new versions to come out.

[frankly]

You Apple fools are a naïve and interesting bunch. For all the posters out there with limited knowledge of what is actually REAL: AT&T has had a 3G network up in major markets for YEARS now. LOL when the IPhone was released with slow EDGE we had had 3G in Seattle for about a full year if not more. Then Jobs filled your little naïve Apple fool heads with "oh no 3G will sap the battery life that's why we didn't include it" LOL. Somebody should tell Jobs and you that there were a bunch of 3G phones out already at the iphone launch, including smart phones like the Blackjack 1 and even cheapo phones like entry level Motorola and Nokia phones. How deluded are you sheep? Now its one year later and 3G chipsets are so ubiqutous and cheap that they are included in Free phones, and the sheep still walk around thinking its some new technology. AT&T isn't launching their 3G network you fools, they are just expanding it in new cities. Its not something new. Apple as usual is fancy looking graphical garbage with old low tech technology.

Who is the fool, those who have actual knowledge or those who claim to have a greater knowledge than others and only end up making themselves look foolish?

Cingular had 3G deployed when the iPhone was launched but the footprint was VERY LIMITED compared to EDGE. At the time of the release there were tradeoffs to including 3G coverage and since that coverage had limited availability it didn't really seem worth it at the time. Other phones may have had 3G incorporated but those phones didn't have 3.5" screens and play music and video as well. There are a lot of factors that have to be taken into consideration when deciding what features to include in your phone and you know what, battery life is at the top of the list when you are a heavy phone user, as most smart phone buyers are.

You make yourself look extremely foolish with your last claim. If you actually put your hands on and used an iPhone you might have a different perspective. It has the best mobile web browser, period. No other smart phone even comes close. The UI for making phone calls and checking your voice mail is head and shoulders above the competition. These and other features put the iPhone YEARS ahead of the competition and yet because of the lack of 3G you classify it as "fancy looking graphical garbage with old low tech technology." How silly you are.

[frankly]

AT&T traditionally had little interest in cellular's success. Their entire "empire" was built and maintained on land-line phones and service like DSL over copper wire pairs, T1 and T3 circuits, etc.

When they finally stepped into the cellular arena, they did so by buying out Cingular Wireless, who really didn't have that great of a network in place.

To this day, I wonder if there's perhaps a bit of "conflict of interest" internally at AT&T when it comes to providing a highly reliable cellular network. At least *some* people in the company surely like the idea perpetuated that cellphones aren't "reliable enough" to justify canceling your home phone service, in favor of them. Their "best business model" is probably a place where their cellular service works "good enough to keep most of their customers" but not *quite* good enough to stop you from keeping BOTH a cellphone and a land-line.

In any case though, AT&T has their work cut out for them, after taking over Cingular. The wireless network of theirs in my city is spotty at best, and I'm in St. Louis, Missouri -- not exactly a "small town". I can almost count on a dropped call in 1 or 2 spots along Interstate 44 as I drive west from the downtown area. I get practically no signal at all inside my workplace, and a wildly varying signal strength if I go outside in our parking lot.

Their EDGE network varies widely in performance too, although I typically find it "molasses slow" pulling up any web content. Oddly, there seem to be specific places I can go and get a pretty "snappy" EDGE experience. It seems like they've only got a few towers upgraded for good EDGE performance or something.

Please try to get your facts straight before you try to post something like this.

1) Cingular was owned as a joint venture of SBC and BellSouth
2) Cingular bought AT&T Wireless
3) SBC bought AT&T
4) SBC changed its name to AT&T
5) The new AT&T (SBC) bought BellSouth
6) The new AT&T (SBC) changed the name of Cingular to AT&T Wireless

Turns out that reality is completely out of line with your claims.

[drb6]

A good point was made, 3G is not new tech, AT&T is just behind the curve in implementing it. If they were on the ball Apple would of have to use 3G in the iPhone. The fact that it wasn't available really screwed things up. Now AT&T is going to be behind the curve again while other networks are working on 4G they will just be pushing 3G.

A good point was made about 3g. I was referring to his hate on Apple fools and Apple products.

I think most people on the boards know that 3g has been available but not universally. We also all knew the iPhone would eventually have that functionality but until AT&T is able to say 'yeah we have a 3G network' (which they haven't till now because its too small to go claiming this only to have customers come back and complain), the release becomes more imminent I think. Of course Apple has surely been working on it probably since last year or even before as someone suggested.

[frankly]

I also had to laugh at the fool who thought EDGE was state of the art and would match 3G. Lol dude if you don't know what you're talking about go do some frickin research. EDGE is a 2.5G add on to GSM and has a real world max output of about 300kbps in the final EDGE deployment that AT&T is rolling out. 3G UMTS HSDPA that AT&T is/has rolled out has a throughput of 7.2Mbps. Now I don't know where you went to school dude, but 200K aint 7.2Mbps. Do some research.

I'm not saying that EDGE is faster in all cases but it isn't as slow as people make it sound. The speed of each is heavily dependent on the amount of network traffic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJTdFTIF2No

[erandall38]

Now if we can get Apple stock to move higher! ( down to $122 today ) :eek:

Patience is a virtue!!!

[drb6]

Verizon is already working on 4G (LTE) with Vodafone which will transition them to GSM, which will be good for their phones.


Any idea when this is said to happen, the transition? The article doesn't mention it.

Hopefully, with 4G GSM, Verizon customers will finally get some good phones right after they are released, where as now, consumers have to wait for the phones to be converted to CDMA.



Ah how enlightening, is that why their newest phones look like they're straight out of the late nineties. I only just started following wireless industry news because of my interest in the iPhone. :D

[MacBoySeattle]

To combat more disinformation. AT&Ts deployment of 3G is neither new (been deployed in major cities for YEARS) nor are they languishing now. They are not deploying 3G now they are deploying 3.5G (HSDPA) and 3.75G (HSUPA). Its a bolt on to their existing 3G networks in areas where they had a previously launched 3G UMTS network. Also they aren't anywhere near languishing behind Verizon in deploying 4G as LTE is designed at its core to be an evolutionary upgrade from an existing UMTS HSDPA network. Because Apple chose not to include 3G in their fancy toy phone at launch means nothing about AT&T as like I said, at launch there were a bunch of 3G phones out and a network.

[pilotError]

AT&T Inc. is expanding its third-generation wireless broadband service to more than 80 additional cities in the United States throughout the year.

Once this upgrade is completed, San Antonio-based AT&T (NYSE: T) will have third-generation, or 3G, coverage in nearly 350 U.S. markets by the end of 2008, including all of the top 100 cities. AT&T will build out more than 1,500 cell sites.

The company is also planning to complete its High Speed Uplink Packet Access-enabled network by the middle of the year, which will allow laptop users to more quickly send large files via the Internet. This network upgrade also should make it easier for wireless customers to take advantage of new applications.

"Fast wireless broadband is the foundation for a whole range of new and emerging applications that our customers are adopting, including everything from social networking to sending live video and large business files," says Ralph de la Vega, president and CEO of AT&T's wireless unit.

With the expansion of 3G wireless services, AT&T is also establishing a clear path to a 4G network in the future.

AT&T is the nation's largest wireless company based on subscribers.

I wonder what the clear path to 4G means...

There was some reports that go back as far as 2005 that talk about WiMax and LGE (same as Verizon).

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2008/02/04/daily25.html?ana=from_rss

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/01/22/3gpp.finalizes.lte.spec/

[MacNut]

From what I understand about WiMAX, Sprint and a bunch of companies are working on building out the network.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimax

[MacBoySeattle]

I wonder what the clear path to 4G means...

There was some reports that go back as far as 2005 that talk about WiMax and LGE (same as Verizon).

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2008/02/04/daily25.html?ana=from_rss

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/01/22/3gpp.finalizes.lte.spec/

It means that LTE was designed to be an economical direct upgrade path for 3G UMTS HSPA networks. Infact AT&T has a much easier upgrade to LTE than Verizon who is converting a CDMA network to LTE.

[objc]

What they didn't mention is that at&t will also be expanding its 3rd generation warrantless spying too. Now they can help NSA spy on more war protestors, Democrats, and Ron Paul supporters than ever before!

at&t: Your world. Delivered. To the NSA.
http://www.stopthespying.org/

[11800506]

Any idea when this is said to happen, the transition? The article doesn't mention it.



Ah how enlightening, is that why their newest phones look like they're straight out of the late nineties. I only just started following wireless industry news because of my interest in the iPhone. :D

I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that they were planning on transitioning around 2010. I did find out that they are starting trials sometime this year here: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/20cdb8b6-9ead-11dc-b4e4-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1

As for the issue of phones, I had always speculated this as it took them I think around a year to release the Blackberry Pearl for their CDMA network (and it has taken similar lengths of time for other phones including the RAZR).

[frankly]

To combat more disinformation. AT&Ts deployment of 3G is neither new (been deployed in major cities for YEARS) nor are they languishing now. They are not deploying 3G now they are deploying 3.5G (HSDPA) and 3.75G (HSUPA). Its a bolt on to their existing 3G networks in areas where they had a previously launched 3G UMTS network. Also they aren't anywhere near languishing behind Verizon in deploying 4G as LTE is designed at its core to be an evolutionary upgrade from an existing UMTS HSDPA network. Because Apple chose not to include 3G in their fancy toy phone at launch means nothing about AT&T as like I said, at launch there were a bunch of 3G phones out and a network.

You need to get a clue. It is not that AT&T didn't have 3G available at the launch of the iPhone. Compare their 3G footprint to that of either Verizon or Sprint. It was and still is a joke. It really doesn't matter if they had 3G available for 10 years if it was only available in a handful of cities. I'm glad that it was available in your city but that doesn't help the majority of Americans.

[MacNut]

The Xohm service, based on 802.16e WiMAX, will offer users 2 to 4 megabits of speed and significantly lower latency than other high-speed wireless systems.

Tests conducted during a demonstration in Chicago in late September produced results of 3.2 megabits download and 1.5 megabits upload, with 70 millisecond's latency, while stationary, and only slightly worse numbers while moving.

This is considerably in excess of the proven capabilities of other wide-area wireless technologies such as Sprint's own EV-DO Revision A network, as well as the 3G technologies used by AT&T and other providers.http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13545Speed tests performed by Sprint representatives at the request of Ars Technica showed system speed to be 3.2 Mbits downstream and 1.5 Mbits upstream with a 70 ms latency while the ship was docked; 2.4 down and 1.4 up with a 99 ms latency while moving. Sprint has described its expected network performance under real world conditions as being 2-4 megabits downstream and 1-2 megs up. The service quality was described as being more similar to cable or DSL Internet than conventional cellular-wireless systems, which have a higher latency.

The carrier has also announced that it expects to make the service available to approximately 70 million people in 22 major cities by the end of 2008, with partner Clearwire covering an additional 30 million in the same time period. The two networks are promised to seamlessly interconnect.

No Sprint contracts will be required to get or keep the service; according to the company's WiMax unit head, Barry West, users will have to pay an unsubsidized price for their hardware, but in return, no contracts or early termination fees will be involved for users who wish to cancel service. Users will also have full choice of what hardware they want to use on the network, ranging from cellular phone style devices to home routers.

Sprint plans a "soft launch" for its Xohm network in the Chicago and Baltimore/Washington D.C. areas by the end of the year, with commercial availability in the first half of 2008.http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13378

[11800506]

It means that LTE was designed to be an economical direct upgrade path for 3G UMTS HSPA networks. Infact AT&T has a much easier upgrade to LTE than Verizon who is converting a CDMA network to LTE.

Well I wonder how long it will take AT&T to convert from 3.75G to 4G, as I haven't heard much talk about it yet. It seems to me that since AT&T is working on expanding 3G now, it will take a while before they start the upgrade to 4G.

[MacBoySeattle]

You need to get a clue. It is not that AT&T didn't have 3G available at the launch of the iPhone. Compare their 3G footprint to that of either Verizon or Sprint. It was and still is a joke. It really doesn't matter if they had 3G available for 10 years if it was only available in a handful of cities. I'm glad that it was available in your city but that doesn't help the majority of Americans.

It doesn't matter if it was fully rolled out or not dude. A 3G phone works on GSM bands as well when it can't find a UMTS network. Do you think all the people who bought the 3G phones that were out at the launch of the iphone had 3G? Ofcourse not. For them it acts like a GSM phone. Apple new damn well the 3G network was expanding and that the rollout would be done by mid 2008.

[imwoblin]

Patience is a virtue!!!

I hope you're right. AAPL is now $118.35 in after hours trading.

[MacBoySeattle]

http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13545http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13378

The 2nd revision of HSDPA (3.5G) has a throughput of 7.2 Mbps, the 3rd revision is at 14.4 Mbps. Both of these are in excess of Sprints expected Wimax throughput. However latency is lower. The problem is Sprint is in major financial trouble. They are the only major wireless company losing net customers, so who knows if they can roll out.

[MacNut]

Last I heard Sprint is going to get financial backing.

Talks are back on again. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=19&entry_id=23819

In the latest scenario, Clearwire and Sprint would form a joint venture, with Intel, Best Buy, Google, or even a foreign telecom company, possibly financing the deal. The endeavor is expensive because the companies will not only have to build a nationwide network, but to be successful, they will also have to create an ecosystem of companies to build chips, create content and market the end product to consumers. Partnerships with companies such as Best Buy and Google would go far in in accomplishing those pieces of the equation.http://www.moconews.net/entry/419-clearwire-and-sprint-may-get-partners-to-fund-wimax-report

[elmo151]

Now we need a "dongle" that will permit the MBA connect to a 3G network. less time at starbucks, more time in the park or at the beach. :cool:

[EagerDragon]

Nice but I don't live in a city and I don't work in a city. Oh well.

I seem to remember that Jobs said that the phone could not go 3G until the new 3G chips had significantly lower battery drain and that he expected the chips some time in early 2008, if I remember this correctly, then it would be possible for a 3G iPhone in the second or 3rd Quarter.

I could have misunderstood.

[erandall38]

I hope you're right. AAPL is now $118.35 in after hours trading.

Ya CSCO provided a lower than expected guidance.


It will just take some time and these stronger companies will re-show their colors.

[bella92108]

Now we need a "dongle" that will permit the MBA connect to a 3G network. less time at starbucks, more time in the park or at the beach. :cool:

The carries all (ATT, VERIZON, SPRINT) have USB adaptors you can use to connect the MacBook Air to a 3G network... they work on any mac, duhh.

[yayaba]

Great thread. Lots of good information in here.

What is 4G exactly? Before a couple weeks ago I didn't even know there was "3.5G" or "3.75G"... I thought it was just 3G.

I actually haven't had much experience with 3G until I played around with an LG CU500 that has HSDPA. Latency is a bit better at around 150ms and the download speeds are pretty good. Tethering with bluetooth (limited by bluetooth actually), I got around 600-700 kbps, more than good enough for browsing.

[Compile 'em all]

I know everybody has been talking up 3G since before the iPhione launch, but . . .

EDGE is fully deployed now and very widely indeed. It is as fast in actual practice as 3G. AT&T is ramping up EDGE bandwidth increases market by market and some day EDGE will itself be twice as fast.

3G is just now being deployed in major markets. Not widely. If you are in a big city and use a phone locally then 3G is an interesting future feature. But iPhone as it exists right now with EDGE is the device of the near-present-and future.

3G does use more power and we may see something akin to an airport card for Mac CPU's that does 802.11, 3G, and EDGE since Macs are a mobile-crippled device as compared to a mere iPhone right now.


3G IS orders of magnitude faster than EDGE. There is no point in arguing about it, really.

A 3G chip might have been consuming more power in 2006 than an non-3G one, but it is now 2008 and technologies move on. Chips have become smaller, faster, and more efficient. For a data-centric device such as the iPhone, a faster downlink can change the way you do alot of things with it.

I'm not saying that EDGE is faster in all cases but it isn't as slow as people make it sound. The speed of each is heavily dependent on the amount of network traffic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJTdFTIF2No

That is because they are two different devices using different rendering engines...etc. You cant do such a comparison and deduce that EDGE is faster than 3G. This is ridicilous.

Show me a video of an iPhone on EDGE and ANOTHER iPhone on 3G, then we can talk.

[sifredi]

I've read now the first 3 pages here and I am shocked why everbody here thinks only about iphone-usage in the states. hello! there are also people in the rest of the world - and some have 3G! I am from good old Vienna and I have a 3G phone now for nearly 4 years. It's already rather old technology here.... well old but fast.
The stuff Jobs said about battery-life is simply not true. I mean we have 3G smartphones, even more advanced stuff compared to phones sold in the US and the battery-life is absolutly OK (2-3 days, surfing, videostreaming and so on). UMTS needs a little bit more battery but still a company like Apple should find a moderate solution to that problem.

I personally think the 3G phones are the only way to sell the phone here in Europe. People are not willing to pay 500 bucks for old technology (that's why the iphone will not sell well in Japan).

[EagerDragon]

I've read now the first 3 pages here and I am shocked why everbody here thinks only about iphone-usage in the states. hello! there are also people in the rest of the world - and some have 3G! I am from good old Vienna and I have a 3G phone now for nearly 4 years. It's already rather old technology here.... well old but fast.
The stuff Jobs said about battery-life is simply not true. I mean we have 3G smartphones, even more advanced stuff compared to phones sold in the US and the battery-life is absolutly OK (2-3 days, surfing, videostreaming and so on). UMTS needs a little bit more battery but still a company like Apple should find a moderate solution to that problem.

I personally think the 3G phones are the only way to sell the phone here in Europe. People are not willing to pay 500 bucks for old technology (that's why the iphone will not sell well in Japan).

Most people in the USA will be happy for the USA, those in France will be happy for their ability to use their 3G current installation. Not many USA people would be excited over it being available elsewhere, LOL.

[shahidhaque]

I hope that Montana is one of the states they are planning to expand to! I recently moved here from Chicago and had to cancel AT&T service. I could have unlocked the iPhone and used Chinook Wireless, but their rates are steep for data. I am now using a work-issued Blackberry. Reluctantly.

[bogman12]

Wow, in your world phones can laugh at each other. Can I move to where you live?

In my mind they do, because that's what a 3G iphone would do to a crappy iphone.

[bruk201ib]

Most people in the USA will be happy for the USA, those in France will be happy for their ability to use their 3G current installation. Not many USA people would be excited over it being available elsewhere, LOL.

Good way of thinking "if we are happy who cares for the rest of the world" ... that's the american way i guess.

Anyway, as sifredi posted, I live in the UK where 3G is pretty much all over the place. I have a Nokia N73 that always works in 3G and i charge my battery once a week/4 days worst case scenario, so I don't quite believe the story about battery life for the iPhone. The technology is out there, if Apple chose not to use it because the USA don't have much 3G coverage it's their fault.

Like MacBoySeattle said (even if i hate all of his derogatory posts) if you have a 3G phone but no 3G covered network, you'll get EDGE or whatever is available until you'll get to an area where 3G is available. It doesn't work the same way for EDGE.

Said so, I can't wait to get my hands on a 3G iPhone since that's the only detail i'm missing.

[EagerDragon]

Good way of thinking "if we are happy who cares for the rest of the world" ... that's the american way i guess.

Anyway, as sifredi posted, I live in the UK where 3G is pretty much all over the place. I have a Nokia N73 that always works in 3G and i charge my battery once a week/4 days worst case scenario, so I don't quite believe the story about battery life for the iPhone. The technology is out there, if Apple chose not to use it because the USA don't have much 3G coverage it's their fault.

Like MacBoySeattle said (even if i hate all of his derogatory posts) if you have a 3G phone but no 3G covered network, you'll get EDGE or whatever is available until you'll get to an area where 3G is available. It doesn't work the same way for EDGE.

Said so, I can't wait to get my hands on a 3G iPhone since that's the only detail i'm missing.

You seem to have forgotten that this thread is about AT&T installing 3G in a lot of cities in the USA, so this news affects only USA. We have already hear that China and Asia wants a 3G iPhone and by the looks of it it will be available before year end. So it looks like us and the rest of the world will be getting 3G iPhone sooner or later.

It is not that we do not care about the rest of the world, it is simply that in a lot of the world 3G already exist, so there is no reason why someone in the USA would be happy or unhappy for you. If we were to hear you are not getting something that you should we may care.

[pondie84]

What are the sales like of 3G phones in comparison to non-3G phones does anyone know?

Even though 3G is available here I haven't bought one because I don't see the need for it. Although the number of 3G users is definately increasing rapidly I'd imagine the majority would still be non-3G. On a purely business level you'd imagine the smartest move for Apple would be to launch their first phone in the market with the broadest consumer base and then work their way up as the market for higher technologies increases. In other words, establish yourself in the mass market and then move the mass market with you.

[EagerDragon]

What are the sales like of 3G phones in comparison to non-3G phones does anyone know?

Even though 3G is available here I haven't bought one because I don't see the need for it. Although the number of 3G users is definately increasing rapidly I'd imagine the majority would still be non-3G. On a purely business level you'd imagine the smartest move for Apple would be to launch their first phone in the market with the broadest consumer base and then work their way up as the market for higher technologies increases. In other words, establish yourself in the mass market and then move the mass market with you.

I would add to your question: Is there a higher price for data plans that use 3G instead of Edge?

Also it would be great to have 3G provided that it will fall back to Edge or something similar where 3G is not available, which right now 3G has very little coverage in mainland USA.

[MacNut]

I would imagine 3G phones are selling well. People want to have web access and on demand content.

Im not sure what you mean about lack of coverage, 3G is wide open with Sprint and Verizon.

[frankly]

3G IS orders of magnitude faster than EDGE. There is no point in arguing about it, really.

Do you know what an order of magnitude is? Perhaps you should have looked it up before making that ridiculous claim.

[frankly]

That is because they are two different devices using different rendering engines...etc. You cant do such a comparison and deduce that EDGE is faster than 3G. This is ridicilous.

Show me a video of an iPhone on EDGE and ANOTHER iPhone on 3G, then we can talk.

It doesn't matter that they were different devices for a couple of reasons.

1) It wasn't the rendering that was slowing it down. You can clearly see the download speed at the top of the phone.
2) If the rendering engine and the processor is better on the iPhone then won't the used of EDGE vs. 3G be negligible to the end user? Isn't that what matters? If the average user can pick up an iPhone and a Treo and they work at about the same speed do you think they care that it doesn't have 3G?

[pondie84]

People want to have web access and on demand content.

Do they? I'm not so sure that the mass market does at the moment. Perhaps I'm just that out of touch! I'd imagine there's a definate youth market (think up to 25). However I'd imagine the broadest market base would just require general mobile services at the moment. Most people I know still have EDGE phones and don't regularly need web access or on demand content, although this is definately increasing quickly.

[MacNut]

A lot of users complain at how slow EDGE is, I think 3G is a huge deal.

I use my phone to get sports scores all the time. I use the web service.

[frankly]

It doesn't matter if it was fully rolled out or not dude. A 3G phone works on GSM bands as well when it can't find a UMTS network. Do you think all the people who bought the 3G phones that were out at the launch of the iphone had 3G? Ofcourse not. For them it acts like a GSM phone. Apple new damn well the 3G network was expanding and that the rollout would be done by mid 2008.

Yes, but Apple would have advertised the phone as 3G and since this was only available to a very small percentage of the population this could have caused them a lot of problems with users, the media, etc. These other phone companies have so many models that they release phones that target much smaller audiences. Apple decided to target a broad audience, making it easier for them to market the iPhone which was their FIRST ever foray into this arena. It looks like they were right and not very many people gave a darn about the lack of 3G. They are already the #2 selling smartphone in the U.S. Many of those 3G smartphones you are talking about are sitting far behind the iPhone in sales.

Also, the fact is that EDGE is faster than Sprint or Verizon's 2G network. That is part of the reason that those companies rolled out their 3G faster than Cingular.

The point is that the choice to go with higher battery life vs. 3G was the right choice with the small AT&T 3G footprint. Now that AT&T is finally expanding that footprint I think we will see a 3G iPhone.

[frankly]

I would imagine 3G phones are selling well. People want to have web access and on demand content.

Im not sure what you mean about lack of coverage, 3G is wide open with Sprint and Verizon.

I beg to differ with you slightly. I have a 3G phone (Treo 700p) and even though Sprint and Verizon have better 3G coverage than AT&T Verizon just added 3G in my town last year and Sprint still doesn't offer it. And I don't live in the boondocks or anything. There are a quarter of a million people here. The worst part is that Sprint has a Sprint Speed billboard down the road from my house.

This is why all this talk about rollouts and switching to 3.5G or 4G is ridiculous.

The fact is that our cellular companies can't get adequate voice coverage everywhere and their high speed data access is much worse unless you live in a big city, or really close to one.

[frankly]

Do they? I'm not so sure that the mass market does at the moment. Perhaps I'm just that out of touch! I'd imagine there's a definate youth market (think up to 25). However I'd imagine the broadest market base would just require general mobile services at the moment. Most people I know still have EDGE phones and don't regularly need web access or on demand content, although this is definately increasing quickly.

I agree with you but I think one of the main reasons for this is that the interfaces to access this type of content is really really horrible on most phones. I'm a geek and I almost never accessed the Internet on any of my mobile phones before my Treo. And even now I use the heck out of email but rarely use the browser because it is horrible. If I had an iPhone I would use the browser a lot more often because it actually works.

[Dagless]

Well I didn't expect them to decrease their 3G network in 2008.

[Sweetbike40]

Battery is now also finished after 1 day. I have to charge it every night. Ohwell maybe because i'm an heavy iphone user :)

yikes... this is one of the main reasons i didn't buy one. I wish they would make them so you could replace the battery yourself then it wouldn't be an issue. I'd hate to send my phone off to Apple for replacement and be without a phone. -- do they send a temporary one?


In response to the 3G announcement. My first thought was the iPhone 3G must be on it's way. I would think AT & T is pretty happy to be the exclusive carrier for the iPhone. I was thinking last night that just about everyone i know wants or has an iPhone. Even people who aren't into gadgets or Apple. It is the coolest thing ever. Apple could take over the cell phone industry if they came out with a few more or reduced the prices so more people could afford them and let any carrier sell them.

[C-Dubs]

Battery is now also finished after 1 day. I have to charge it every night. Ohwell maybe because i'm an heavy iphone user :)

im not really sure what you expected out of the iPhone's battery- its ever going to last you longer than a day if you use it even nominally. Not that its a bad thing- it's just the way it is with such a device.

[frankly]

im not really sure what you expected out of the iPhone's battery- its ever going to last you longer than a day if you use it even nominally. Not that its a bad thing- it's just the way it is with such a device.

I think some people must be coming to the iPhone from a regular phone. If they were coming from another smartphone they would be used to this.

It is funny, I actually forgot how long the battery in a regular phone can last. I recently travelled to Europe so I took my old Motorola V400 along and the battery in that thing could last for a week.

[terryzx]

so does it look as if when this 3G phone comes out that it will be able to function on the new “bring your own device” network that Verizon is supposed to have working real soon???

[Rocketman]

Whoa, watch what you're saying.

EDGE is indeed pretty much everywhere. But it has a theoretical bandwidth maximum that is still far, far less than 3G. I'm not sure what it is but it's around 250kbits/sec. That's the cap as to how fast EDGE can go just because of the technology.

3G I believe can go up to 600-800 kbits/sec while 3.5G (HSDPA) can go way higher than that, 1000-3000 kbits/sec. Again, don't quote me on these numbers but I believe it's around those figures.

The only thing 3G cannot fix is latency times. So casual browsing across lots of pages aren't going to be that much faster unless the page size is huge. That's where the faster bandwidth helps in downloading the page.

True enough.

But theory and practice are different in the real world. Several technically impressive posters on MacRumors have convinced me that EDGE, despite its slower peak speed is both faster now in practice and is likely to be faster in the 2 year future due to ramp-ups in EDGE, and handshake issues, and the fact that 3G no matter how fast it "could be" some day, is not now, and also notably is not deployed in most places now anyway.

That said.

3G iPhones are to service markets where the current phones do not work.

Rocketman

[Rocketman]

Show me a video of an iPhone on EDGE and ANOTHER iPhone on 3G, then we can talk.

Be extraordinarily careful what you wish for (please).

http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2007/12/11/edge-vs-3g-shootout-video/

Rocketman

[tys]

Still a bit skeptical of a 3G iPhone coming that soon. Seems that there are things that could influence the timeline from either direction, though. Among them: the desire to enter the East Asian market (pro) and devising a strategy to placate early adopters (con).

Any other thoughts on what would influence this anticipated release?


Hey, I'M an "early adopter" and I want my 3G iPhone ASAP:)

[ntrigue]

Well if you put a couple relevant news stories together; we will be able to purchase the 3G iPhone without extending our contract via the same method used with the 16Gb release.

[frankly]

Be extraordinarily careful what you wish for (please).

http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2007/12/11/edge-vs-3g-shootout-video/

Rocketman

He said an EDGE iPhone vs. a 3G iPhone

The comment was in reference to a video I already pointed to pitting an EDGE iPhone vs. a 3G Treo.

Frank

[manhattanboy]

You need to get a clue. It is not that AT&T didn't have 3G available at the launch of the iPhone. Compare their 3G footprint to that of either Verizon or Sprint. It was and still is a joke. It really doesn't matter if they had 3G available for 10 years if it was only available in a handful of cities. I'm glad that it was available in your city but that doesn't help the majority of Americans.

This is EXACTLY why apple deployed in EDGE ... so they could sell more iPhones. But is also the reason why the 3G iPhone is not coming soon (albeit surprisingly it will be here by year's end).

[manhattanboy]

I'm not saying that EDGE is faster in all cases but it isn't as slow as people make it sound. The speed of each is heavily dependent on the amount of network traffic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJTdFTIF2No

Which is also why I believe Apple choose not to flood the ATT 3G networks that are used by every other smart phone, hence you have the masses on something none of the other cell phone makers were using anymore (EDGE).

[frankly]

Which is also why I believe Apple choose not to flood the ATT 3G networks that were getting use by every other smart phone, hence you heard the masses on something none of the other cell phone makers were using anymore (EDGE).

I'm not sure that is correct. There are still EDGE phones available from other companies today.

BlackBerry Pearl
BlackBerry Curve
BlackBerry 8820
BlackBerry 8800
BlackBerry 8700c
Palm Treo 680
Motorola Razr V3
A bunch of Nokia, Samsung, LG, and Sony Ericcson phones

[manhattanboy]

I'm not sure that is correct. There are still EDGE phones available from other companies today.

BlackBerry Pearl
BlackBerry Curve
BlackBerry 8820
BlackBerry 8800
BlackBerry 8700c
Palm Treo 680
Motorola Razr V3
A bunch of Nokia, Samsung, LG, and Sony Ericcson phones

Out of ATT's current smartphone lineup that you can buy:
Those with 3G:
-Blackjack
-BlackJack(TM) II
-Palm® Treo(TM) 680
-Pantech Duo (which also can use EDGE)
-Moto Q(TM) Global
-Palm treo 750 (which also can use EDGE)
-AT&T Tilt(TM)

Those in the EDGE ONLY category:
Apple iPhone
All CRACKberries (don't get me started on when on EARTH the drivers for the crackberries are going to be made available...xp64pro 3 YEARS waiting now).

[frankly]

Out of ATT's current smartphone lineup that you can buy:
Those with 3G:
-Blackjack
-BlackJack(TM) II
-Palm® Treo(TM) 680
-Pantech Duo (which also can use EDGE)
-Moto Q(TM) Global
-Palm treo 750 (which also can use EDGE)
-AT&T Tilt(TM)

Those in the EDGE ONLY category:
Apple iPhone
All CRACKberries (don't get me started on when on EARTH the drivers for the crackberries are going to be made available...xp64pro 3 YEARS waiting now).

Am I missing something here? I never implied that there were no 3G phones available. However, you did say

on something none of the other cell phone makers were using anymore (EDGE).

There are plenty of phone makers using EDGE. Also, the Treo 680 is NOT a 3G phone.

[puckhead193]

bring it on apple/Att&t :D

[mikeinternet]

i personally think of 3G as being way to comparable to edge to be used in iphone gen2. when i shell out the money for another i want something more "revolutionary".

[c.galaz1]

In Mexico the main company that could launch the Iphoen will be TELCEL and this week they anouncent the 3g service, so i think that when the iphone arrives to Mexico it will be 3g, The newspapers in Mexico says that the iphone will arrive at mid year.

[sifredi]

there is still no sign of an iphone around here in Austria. T-mobile in Germany sells it since end of 2007, but T#mobile Austria didn't pick it up yet. I guess people here know that such a device without 3G is - more or less - pointless. I don't want to wait for a MP3 to download 15minutes.
Appple... c'mon... bring it on! Where is my 3G iphone with VGA video and cam with flash??? I want it now!

[.adam]

3G has widespread coverage here in the UK, however only 3 currently offer it. Apple have signed a "multi-year deal" with o2 so I'm guessing o2 will have to get in on 3G somehow or the 3G iPhone will not come to the UK.

P.S. To the previous poster who suggested EDGE as as fast as 3G. No, just no.

P.P.S. We even get 3.5G in the UK (I have 2.5G signal on my Nokia 6120c as we speak. Unlimited data for £5p/m makes me happy).

[frankly]

there is still no sign of an iphone around here in Austria. T-mobile in Germany sells it since end of 2007, but T#mobile Austria didn't pick it up yet. I guess people here know that such a device without 3G is - more or less - pointless. I don't want to wait for a MP3 to download 15minutes.
Appple... c'mon... bring it on! Where is my 3G iphone with VGA video and cam with flash??? I want it now!

Or perhaps it is because the population of Austria is 1/10 that of Germany???

[frankly]

P.S. To the previous poster who suggested EDGE as as fast as 3G. No, just no.

1) There is a difference between theoretical bandwidth and actual bandwidth.
2) There is more to the speed of web browsing than simply network speed. The software and the speed of the processor play at least as important a role as the bandwidth.

[carlgo]

Please, answer me this:

Is it likely, or possible, for a 3G iPhone to be able to also access Edge?

If one phone can't use both technologies, do you think the plan would be to offer two different phones?

Is 3+G slated to be the defacto technology everywhere in the US?

I live in a not-that-rural area where any service is spotty so I wonder how to plan an iPhone purchase, or maybe just forget it for a while until our corporate masters figure it out.

[Aznsensation45]

Looks like iPhone V2 at Macworld 09.

That would be quite impossible since Apple already stated that they're releasing the iphone with 3G (most likely the V2) in 2008.

[DaveLG526]

The earlier rumor was that Apple was waiting for a low power 3G chipset from a semiconductor manufacturer. Broadcom announced such a chip late in 2007 so it is pretty certain any manufacturer with large volume potential--like Apple--would have known about the chipset and probably had a test platform ready for it.

I have not hear much lately on how Apple plans to implement 3G in the next generation iPhone. Does anyone have more details?

[manhattanboy]

There are plenty of phone makers using EDGE. Also, the Treo 680 is NOT a 3G phone.

Right on with the treo.
Why anybody still makes stuff for EDGE is beyond me.

[frankly]

Right on with the treo.
Why anybody still makes stuff for EDGE is beyond me.

I don't understand why you don't get this.

1) EDGE is available nearly EVERYWHERE
2) Not everyone needs high speed Internet on their phone. The fact is that if you aren't surfing the Web (which most phones suck at regardless of the speed) then you DO NOT NEED 3G. If 90% of what you do is email than EDGE is not only fast enough, it is more than fast.

The fact is that a couple of years ago I had a BlackBerry model given to me by work that was not even EDGE capable. Email worked super fast and flawlessly on it.

Few people are surfing the Web on their phones. Even fewer need to stream video.

Frank

[Mr. Mustard]

What year is it again?

[winterspan]

This is nice, but still pathetic compared to Verizon's EV-DO rollout. I love their service but HATE the damn company... alas, I am stuck on a business account for the time being. Does anyone know the current speculation on the iPhone exclusivity and especially if there are different terms for a CDMA vs GSM exclusivity??
GOD DAMN YOU VERIZON. Why didn't you take the iPhone offer??? :mad::mad:

[WarDogg]

This is nice, but still pathetic compared to Verizon's EV-DO rollout. I love their service but HATE the damn company... alas, I am stuck on a business account for the time being. Does anyone know the current speculation on the iPhone exclusivity and especially if there are different terms for a CDMA vs GSM exclusivity??
GOD DAMN YOU VERIZON. Why didn't you take the iPhone offer??? :mad::mad:

Actually glad they didn't! Their data prices suck!

[cubbie5150]

All cell companies suck, but I was SOOO happy to leave VZW a few years ago. Cingluar/ATT has issues, but my experience w/ them has been tremendously better than it was w/ VZW. If Apple would've gone the VZW route, I would NOT own an iPhone... Of course I realize this is solely my experience.

[wnurse]

Maybe AT&T should just join in on WiMAX. Isn't 3G old tech by now.

Yes, i'm surprised that AT&T didn't decide to leapfrog 3G and go to the next logical level.

[wnurse]

I don't understand why you don't get this.

1) EDGE is available nearly EVERYWHERE
2) Not everyone needs high speed Internet on their phone. The fact is that if you aren't surfing the Web (which most phones suck at regardless of the speed) then you DO NOT NEED 3G. If 90% of what you do is email than EDGE is not only fast enough, it is more than fast.

The fact is that a couple of years ago I had a BlackBerry model given to me by work that was not even EDGE capable. Email worked super fast and flawlessly on it.

Few people are surfing the Web on their phones. Even fewer need to stream video.

Frank

Hmm.. have you ever tried to download your email over a slow network?. i bet you haven't. surfing is not the only reason to get high speed!!!. edge is definetly not fast enough for email. It's no where close to fast. Fast and edge should not be in the same sentence when it comes to email.

[winterspan]

Actually glad they didn't! Their data prices suck!

Yeah, their data prices have been too high, but they are starting to come down and something has to be said that it's worth a bit more than AT&T when you can get 3G service even in most smaller suburbs. And Their entire network is EVDO revA which is analogous to HSUPA by making upload speeds fast as well.
Also I would assume that they would have made sweet iPhone phone+data plans for Apple.

All cell companies suck, but I was SOOO happy to leave VZW a few years ago. Cingluar/ATT has issues, but my experience w/ them has been tremendously better than it was w/ VZW. If Apple would've gone the VZW route, I would NOT own an iPhone... Of course I realize this is solely my experience.

I've had VZW for 5-6 years and have had an ok experience with them. They have had great service in my area and their 3g broadband network is great, if expensive. I consider all of them pretty much the same for customer service.
Verizon does piss me off with all the BS they pull with disabling phone features, Blutooth, etc.


Yes, i'm surprised that AT&T didn't decide to leapfrog 3G and go to the next logical level.

If they've taken this long to start rolling out UMTS/HSPA/3G, I doubt they'll have HSPA+ anytime soon. However they don't need the next generation yet when there is such a large spectrum of HSPA/3G bitrates.
Instead of like most carriers who rolled out HSDPA at 1-3mbps, they will probably end up rolling it out widely at 7.2mbps or 14.4 mbps. Also, usually HSUPA (the upload side) comes years after HSDPA, but I bet we'll see it very soon after the HSDPA rollout

[frankly]

Hmm.. have you ever tried to download your email over a slow network?. i bet you haven't. surfing is not the only reason to get high speed!!!. edge is definetly not fast enough for email. It's no where close to fast. Fast and edge should not be in the same sentence when it comes to email.

Hmm... did you even read my email??? Go back, read my email and you will have your answer. It makes your smart remark look really really silly.

[diamond.g]

Please, answer me this:

Is it likely, or possible, for a 3G iPhone to be able to also access Edge?

If one phone can't use both technologies, do you think the plan would be to offer two different phones?

Is 3+G slated to be the defacto technology everywhere in the US?

I live in a not-that-rural area where any service is spotty so I wonder how to plan an iPhone purchase, or maybe just forget it for a while until our corporate masters figure it out.

3G falls back to Edge/GPRS.

I don't understand why you don't get this.

1) EDGE is available nearly EVERYWHERE
2) Not everyone needs high speed Internet on their phone. The fact is that if you aren't surfing the Web (which most phones suck at regardless of the speed) then you DO NOT NEED 3G. If 90% of what you do is email than EDGE is not only fast enough, it is more than fast.

The fact is that a couple of years ago I had a BlackBerry model given to me by work that was not even EDGE capable. Email worked super fast and flawlessly on it.

Few people are surfing the Web on their phones. Even fewer need to stream video.

Frank

The thing everyone here is overlooking about 3G, you can use data and voice at the same time. Think about this. You could be IM'ing someone and chatting with someone on the phone at the same time. You could be surfing the web while listening to some one yack at you. You could be downloading stuff while listening to someone yack at you.

When surfing the web and someone calls you will get the call, even if you are actively downloading a page's content. That is great.

All we need is a little bit better battery life, Apple to support it, and AT&T to hurry up with the rollout.

[frankly]

The thing everyone here is overlooking about 3G, you can use data and voice at the same time. Think about this. You could be IM'ing someone and chatting with someone on the phone at the same time. You could be surfing the web while listening to some one yack at you. You could be downloading stuff while listening to someone yack at you.

When surfing the web and someone calls you will get the call, even if you are actively downloading a page's content. That is great.

Actually it appears that you are overlooking the fact that AT&T has added this ability to their EDGE network in many locations and as they upgrade their EDGE network it becomes available in more locations. Again, this depends on where you are in the country but there are many reports across the Internet of people being able to receive calls while downloading data.

[diamond.g]

Actually it appears that you are overlooking the fact that AT&T has added this ability to their EDGE network in many locations and as they upgrade their EDGE network it becomes available in more locations. Again, this depends on where you are in the country but there are many reports across the Internet of people being able to receive calls while downloading data.

Hmm, you misunderstood what I meant. EDGE suspends the data transfer while in a call. AFAIK UMTS doesn't.

[frankly]

Hmm, you misunderstood what I meant. EDGE suspends the data transfer while in a call. AFAIK UMTS doesn't.

That may be the case.

[sirk337]

I understand nothings official yet but is there even a remote possibility that once 3G is being used on a wider scale that the current iPhone will be able to convert to that somehow physically? Or do I give up all hope that I will have no choice but to buy the new iPhone with 3G???

[frankly]

I understand nothings official yet but is there even a remote possibility that once 3G is being used on a wider scale that the current iPhone will be able to convert to that somehow physically? Or do I give up all hope that I will have no choice but to buy the new iPhone with 3G???

There is no chance of that whatsoever. You will have to buy a new phone.

[OMAN9520]

Will the 3G Iphone still support Edge because my are only has edge but will hopefully have 3G in a couple years

[robanga]

Living in a town where the only 3G choice is Sprint EVDO-A, I am hoping that AT&T will come down the road about 30 miles or so and turn it on here. I have a 3G blackjack that only get's to drink from the big pipe when I travel. Also I am sure the next iPhone will be 3G and I will upgrade immediately, regardless of contracts.

The edge speed is actually fine for most things, but I do like 3G for tethering.

Sprint has certainly beaten everyone else to the punch in our area.

[LizKat]

OMG Now let's hear from all the whiners who just bought a new upgraded iPhone yesterday. There will always be something better tomorrow. Enjoy the use out of your purchase and ****!!! :mad:

Yeh! (pats phat nano on the butt while thinking about 2Gb shuffle.... NOT)

I totally love my iPhone but it might as well be an iPod touch since even to get a signal for a voice call I gotta get in the car and drive five miles up on a mountain where sometimes... amid the goats and black Angus... I can connect long enough to get someone to bring me something from town on their way home.

So hey, no regrets about buying the iPhone but I will not trample anyone in line for a 3G-capable version. Nothing works around here so we're an equal opportunity scenario for whenever all the urban markets are saturated with five of everything. WiFi good enough for me, probably would have bought a touch and let it go at that --had I known!-- but I craved that iPhone enough to drive 180 miles for it (surprised myself last June 29th, that's for sure, but it was a lot of fun and stills feels worth it).

[chickenninja]

better not give me cancer!