Considering a MacBook? BE WARNED

[MIDI_EVIL]

Ok, so my best friend has a MacBook Core Duo. Purchased on release date.

It has been in for so many repairs now and Apple have not, and said they WILL not replace the machine for a Core 2 Duo, which appear to have much less issues and seem to have been sorted out.

Problems: Whining, mooing, heat issues, fan issues, logic board issues, screen issues, hard-drive failure, wonky construction, weird burn mark on battery, audio jack issues and random shutdown...

2 x machines, 2 x Logic board replacements, 2 x screen replacements, 1 x hard-drive replacement, 2 x audio jack repair related to logic board fault, and they scratched up her battery with a screwdriver around the area which appears to have been burnt.

She has communicated with 3 different executive customer relations employees and not one of them seems to want to help.

Today, we got through to an engineer, who is dealing with the repair this time round.

This was a really nice guy, who had a MacBook himself. He has had a lot of these problems, and so has his tech engineer colleague who was sitting nearby.

He today admitted to us that the parts Apple use for the insides of their MacBooks are the most basic components available on the laptop market, and he is utterly dissapointed with the quality control on the numerous MacBooks he has had to deal with repairing.

I just wanted to express our disappointment with Apple here, and give a heads up to anyone considering a Core Duo machine, or even the newer MacBooks to be aware that the engineers themselves, are as disgusted as us.

Also, we don't know where to go with this anymore... She would like either a Core 2 Duo machine, an iMac for the same value, or her money back. Apple won't budge.

Is there anyone who's had any experience getting anywhere in a similar situation?

Thanks in advance

PS we've have already emailed s.jobs

[noodle654]

That CD is a LEMON!! I must say that is a joke...that really is a joke that they will not replace the computer. I say call Apple again and don't accept "No" for an answer. That is complete BS that they wont replace it. It is clearly a defective unit. If Apple refuses to give you a new computer, take Apple to Small Claims court. Keep all your documents on the repair, pictures, etc. I would also get the repair guy to do something if he can. I would email SJ again and just say how pissed you are that you can't even use the computer that you spend over $1K on! When I issues with my iBook G4 over the summer, they wanted to repair it. I was done being nice so I said that I will not accept a repair and I would like to speak to a Rep. The Rep. saw the pictures and they sent a new one.

But for you, that is just nuts and I would call Apple Corporate or something to get this dealt with.

[MIDI_EVIL]

Hello noodle,

Sorry, but what do you mean a rep? Do you mean executive relations rep? That's who we spoke to when we got a reply from the s.jobs email we sent out.

Apparently, according to the engineer we spoke to today, that the current executive relations contact we have is pretty high up, and she is very much set on getting the machine repaired again and certainly not replaced.

This is sickening, as my friend has probably been without her laptop more than she has been productive with it.

Should we threaten with trading standards?

[Consultant]

Typical rule is 3 major hardware replacement within 1 year = new machine

Perhaps the person is talking to the wrong people. Have the person contacted Cust Relations yet?

[MIDI_EVIL]

Typical rule is 3 major hardware replacement within 1 year = new machine

Perhaps the person is talking to the wrong people. Have the person contacted Cust Relations yet?

Yeah, on 3 different occasions. Executive customer relations is who we are dealing with now, and they said that they cannot offer a replacement.

Apparently it has to be 3 of the same issues to warrant a replacement??

[aross99]

I would have to agree, that the initial MacBook seems to have had way more problems than the rest. The initial MBP doesn't seem to have been much better.

The C2D's seem to have had alot less problems...

[russtic]

are you in the UK?

If yes send a letter asking for full refund/exchange and give 7 days to reply.

If no reply or not satisfactory start small claim procedures. It is likely that they will either pay up or ignore the claim. In either case you will get the money.

Did this with PCWorld a few years ago after they sold me a lemon laptop. I won the case when the laptop was 14 months old and "out of warranty" however they had had laptop more than I.

Small claims courts in UK are based on the idea of 'reasonableness' it is clear that this is not reasonable.

If you are UK I can give some more info.

[The Flashing Fi]

If you live in the US, I must direct you to this law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

Here is part of that FEDERAL law:

if the product, or a component part, contains a defect or malfunction, must permit the consumer to elect either a refund or replacement without charge, after a reasonable number of repair attempts.

Call them again and remind them of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 and remind them of what I just quoted. Then tell them that if they do not remedy the situation, that you'll be in contact with legal representation and the press.

Yes, this is hardball, but what they're doing to you is illegal under US law. You, as the consumer, have rights. I hope that you've kept the documentation of your repairs as well.

If you're in a different country, you may want to call legal representation or some organization that deals with companies shafting their consumers. You really shouldn't have to worry about legal fees, as it's typically the loser who pays legal fees and court room costs, and being that this is a pretty cut and dry case, Apple will probably want to settle without getting lawyers involved, since it will be a clear victory for you. Most companies don't expect the consumer to be aware of their rights, so they expect them to roll over.

[MIDI_EVIL]

are you in the UK?

If yes send a letter asking for full refund/exchange and give 7 days to reply.

If no reply or not satisfactory start small claim procedures. It is likely that they will either pay up or ignore the claim. In either case you will get the money.

Did this with PCWorld a few years ago after they sold me a lemon laptop. I won the case when the laptop was 14 months old and "out of warranty" however they had had laptop more than I.

Small claims courts in UK are based on the idea of 'reasonableness' it is clear that this is not reasonable.

If you are UK I can give some more info.

I am in the UK and would really appreciate any more information you could offer.

I am completely unaware of what a small claim is and how we would go about starting one?

Thank you all for your input, though!

[brandonshough]

Have you requested a different rep?

Perhaps this one has it out for your friend?

[Fezzasus]

they WILL not replace the machine for a Core 2 Duo, which appear to have much less issues and seem to have been sorted out.

So not really a problem for anyone considering buying a macbook.

[MIDI_EVIL]

Have you requested a different rep?

Perhaps this one has it out for your friend?

This is the third rep, and there isn't anyone to go higher with.

This is executive corporate relations.

So not really a problem for anyone considering buying a macbook.

Well, not if you want the componentry.

It seems you are paying a bigger premium for the OS than it seemed, because the componentry is the most basic on the market.

[noodle654]

This is the third rep, and there isn't anyone to go higher with.

This is executive corporate relations.

Small Claims court is basically your option. That is what I would do.

[russtic]

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

Gives a lot of the info you need.

You need to quote in your letter that you feel that the goods do not comply with the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) as it is not of sactisifactory quality nor is it fit for purpose.

There is some more info here http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0043-1011.txt

Small claims is very simple you mention the above laws and then specify exactly what happened providing as much evidence as possible eg receipts, repair notes etc.

Matt

[brandonshough]

Well, not if you want the componentry.

It seems you are paying a bigger premium for the OS than it seemed, because the componentry is the most basic on the market.


Although I understand your frustration.

You're broadcasting opinions as facts.

[iW00t]

When you filed your claim through the small claims court put a scan of the summons you get too, woo you will be famous!

[MIDI_EVIL]

Although I understand your frustration.

You're broadcasting opinions as facts.

Well, for a start I said 'It seems..."

I'm also going on what an Apple engineer had told us.

[heatmiser]

He today admitted to us that the parts Apple use for the insides of their MacBooks are the most basic components available on the laptop market, and he is utterly dissapointed with the quality control on the numerous MacBooks he has had to deal with repairing.

Of course they are. A Macbook is a budget made-in-China PC with a TPM chip that allows it to run OS X without hassle. It isn't priced higher than its worth (a figure much closer to $500 than to $1100) because it's made of quality; it's priced higher because that's how Apple markets its laptops. If you take one apart, you'll find the same generic pieces you'd see in any other budget laptop, because that's what the Macbook is. People tend to forget that because we're on an Apple forum, but it's kind of an open secret everywhere else.

The quality control, however, is another issue. While the pricing is just Apple being greedy, the QC is just Apple being lazy. A $500 computer (like the Macbook, or an equivalent PC) won't break down any faster than a $2000 machine if it's made well. Unfortunately, manufacturers across the board don't pay much attention to quality when constructing their budget laptops.

[brandonshough]

Well, for a start I said 'It seems..."

I'm also going on what an Apple engineer had told us.

Just saying, even if it's from an Engineer doesn't add any factual credibility. Theoretically if it was truly the crappiest bottom of the barrel parts I believe we'd see a higher failure rate.

Cough Xbox 360???

Either way apple should have replaced your friend's macbook a long time ago...

I can't believe they haven't given you a new one.

[MIDI_EVIL]

Of course they are. A Macbook is a budget made-in-China PC with a TPM chip that allows it to run OS X without hassle. It isn't priced higher than its worth (a figure much closer to $500 than to $1100) because it's made of quality; it's priced higher because that's how Apple markets its laptops. If you take one apart, you'll find the same generic pieces you'd see in any other budget laptop, because that's what the Macbook is. People tend to forget that because we're on an Apple forum, but it's kind of an open secret everywhere else.

The quality control, however, is another issue. While the pricing is just Apple being greedy, the QC is just Apple being lazy. A $500 computer (like the Macbook, or an equivalent PC) won't break down any faster than a $2000 machine if it's made well. Unfortunately, manufacturers across the board don't pay much attention to quality when constructing their budget laptops.

Suppose we were naive back then...

[noodle654]

Of course they are. A Macbook is a budget made-in-China PC with a TPM chip that allows it to run OS X without hassle. It isn't priced higher than its worth (a figure much closer to $500 than to $1100) because it's made of quality; it's priced higher because that's how Apple markets its laptops. If you take one apart, you'll find the same generic pieces you'd see in any other budget laptop, because that's what the Macbook is. People tend to forget that because we're on an Apple forum, but it's kind of an open secret everywhere else.

The quality control, however, is another issue. While the pricing is just Apple being greedy, the QC is just Apple being lazy. A $500 computer (like the Macbook, or an equivalent PC) won't break down any faster than a $2000 machine if it's made well. Unfortunately, manufacturers across the board don't pay much attention to quality when constructing their budget laptops.

Totally correct. I am going to say this....the MacBook is crap. Now that is just my opinion, but it is very crappy laptop. It is poorly made/designed and like you said above, uses cheap parts to keep the costs down.

[noodle654]

And for the OP....Do what you can in the courts or whatever you do. Keep us posted on this, I would love to see what happens!






500

[aaron.lee2006]

Man I feel really bad for you, my situation was so much easier. I had one of the original 1.83 CD MacBook Pros. It had so many problems and was in for 3-4 repairs. Note, my MBP was also a refurb so when they arranged a replacement, she said she would have to give me another refurb. i said that was fine just get me a new computer. She said you're in luck today, I don't have any refurbs so I'll have to give you a brand new one. By that time they had released the first C2D models. So she sent me a 2.16 C2D. I had more problems with it so they had to send another one which was also DOA. And by that time they had released the Sanata Rosa models so I am now using the 2.2 model, lucky me.

JUST KEEP ASKING! :p I don't know why they just won't give you a new one.

I had:
Fourteen dead pixels
Loose Hinge
x2 bad logic boards
Bad bluetooth chip
Case warping
x2 broken audio jacks
Busted screen
Bad superdrive and the list goes on!

[MIDI_EVIL]

Well, we are in the process of preparing a full blown assault on Apple customer relations this time round, quoting Trading Standards and offering a Small Claims Court appearance.

My friend's father (whos MacBook this is) is a manager at Fujitsu, and will help us along the way.

Thanks again everyone! Will keep this thread updated!

[heatmiser]

Suppose we were naive back then...

No, you're not to blame. I hope you can get a working one or get your money back. Do keep us updated on how things turn out.

[anotherarunan]

Just thought id add that my macbook works fine...does everything its supposed to, and more. and it ROCKS! :D

[J@ffa]

...My friend's father (whos MacBook this is) is a manager at Fujitsu, and will help us along the way...

Fujitsu produce internal hard drives for some of the MacBooks. I don't suppose he knows anyone who could make the call to Apple and lean on the appropriate person? ;)

Seriously though, the Core Duo MacBooks sucked badly. The Core 2's are mostly great — they're not all perfect, but I think it's certainly true that the adage once a lemon, always a lemon certainly holds here. In my experience, though three is the internal magic number, things depend very much on the circumstances of the repairs. I think you've just gotten very unlucky with who answered the phone. The two logic board replacements, screen and superdrive alone are grounds enough for a replacement in my mind, considering the component costs for those make up a good part of the total value of the raw cost of the unit.

I would certainly recommend pursuing this through the channels mentioned here (small claims, etc). Being patient enough to put up with so many repairs is one thing, but for them to brush off a completely reasonable request for a decent resolution to this is a bit ridiculous. If you don't mind me asking, where have you been getting these repairs carried out? At one of the UK Apple Stores?

[sak77]

Mine too! My macbook has worked flawlessly since last april. No issues whatsoever. Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I really dont think its a reflection of Macbooks in general. Just my 2 cents.

[ewxlt]

My mackbook has worked flawlessly for two weeks.:)

[Mal]

To the OP:

Your best chance actually might be an email to sjobs@apple.com. Instead of threatening legal action, just go over the heads of the people you're talking to if they're being unreasonable. Most who go that route and have any sort of reasonable complaint end up with a replacement computer very quickly, sometimes with some extras but certainly with star treatment. Sounds like you did get someone very unreasonable, and that you need to pass that along to someone who really knows what they're doing.

To all of those blasting the MacBooks, though, the failure rates on the MacBooks are far better than iBooks were from my experience as a tech, and Apple's Quality Control is still the best in the industry. Those are really very poorly educated claims, based solely on poor personal experiences and not on any sort of traceable data. Apple's QC hasn't suffered lately, there's simply more of them and those who get bad ones are always vocal (I think the problems is worsened by the number of switchers with unrealistic expectations).

jW

[Souljas]

I have a CD macbook too, which I bought a week after it was released.

I had :

-bad optical drive
-logic board replacement
-power cord broke
-yellowing of palm rests...can't believe no you didnt have that!
-battery failed and showed the x
-hard drive replaced

it sucked pretty bad...but its still alive and no problems since!

[masse]

so lesson learned don't buy a core duo macbook that is a lemon?

I have many friends with macbooks and nobody has had any problems. The latest revisions are very reliable machines.

[DocSmitty]

To the OP:

Your best chance actually might be an email to sjobs@apple.com. Instead of threatening legal action, just go over the heads of the people you're talking to if they're being unreasonable. Most who go that route and have any sort of reasonable complaint end up with a replacement computer very quickly, sometimes with some extras but certainly with star treatment. Sounds like you did get someone very unreasonable, and that you need to pass that along to someone who really knows what they're doing.

To all of those blasting the MacBooks, though, the failure rates on the MacBooks are far better than iBooks were from my experience as a tech, and Apple's Quality Control is still the best in the industry. Those are really very poorly educated claims, based solely on poor personal experiences and not on any sort of traceable data. Apple's QC hasn't suffered lately, there's simply more of them and those who get bad ones are always vocal (I think the problems is worsened by the number of switchers with unrealistic expectations).

jW

Read the entire thread. They already sent an email to that address, and are dealing with a very high level employee. It's really rather surprising how this has been handled, and I think at this point they are absolutely correct in turning to legal means when their repeated attempts at reasonable resolution failed.

[Batt]

Read the entire thread. They already sent an email to that address, and are dealing with a very high level employee. It's really rather surprising how this has been handled, and I think at this point they are absolutely correct in turning to legal means when their repeated attempts at reasonable resolution failed.

I don't know - something smells here. Yes, they've had a lot of problems, and Apple refuses to replace it, but we haven't been told Apple's reason for the refusal. Maybe they dropped it in the toilet at some point. Most people end up getting a favorable resolution if they have a legitimate bitch. Or maybe It's just my normal skeptisism rearing its ugly head . . .

[MIDI_EVIL]

I don't know - something smells here. Yes, they've had a lot of problems, and Apple refuses to replace it, but we haven't been told Apple's reason for the refusal. Maybe they dropped it in the toilet at some point. Most people end up getting a favorable resolution if they have a legitimate bitch. Or maybe It's just my normal skeptisism rearing its ugly head . . .

If we had caused accidental damage, or water logged it, then why would they continue to repair it? Apple would love to find some accidental cause so they could use that against us... But they have not and will not!

This is a totally legitimate case and you have no reason to doubt it.

The Rev. A Core Duo MacBook is a pile of junk.

[willcodejavafor]

uses cheap parts to keep the costs down.

You crack me up :)

[Batt]

. . . This is a totally legitimate case and you have no reason to doubt it...


Nothing personal. I have reason to doubt virtually everything.

[tremendous]

i will heed this warning if I ever get the continuum transfunctioner working and end up back in time around 2 and a bit years ago. thanks for the update.

[Bobioden]

The Rev. A Core Duo MacBook is a pile of junk.

This might be true, but to classify ALL Macbooks in the same catagory is not a fair statement. You got a bad one, it happens with everything. I would keep pushing Apple for a replacement.

[russtic]

We had a white macbook from the original release it did have a lot of problems although mostly minor:
ir - didn't work from new
case discolored
battery scratched in repair *
keyboard failed x2 *
trackpad failed x2 *
front lip cracked x2 *
bottom case cracked - clearly from pressure within
noisy fan

All of these were repaired relatively quickly (the ones with * whilst we waited). I was pretty dissapointed as it was my 1st macbook and I had expected perfection!

however I have now had about 6 months use with no problems at all.

My back core 2 duo has however had no problems at all.

[kabunaru]

Totally correct. I am going to say this....the MacBook is crap. Now that is just my opinion, but it is very crappy laptop. It is poorly made/designed and like you said above, uses cheap parts to keep the costs down.

What about the iBook G4s which had "non-Industry standard" parts (PowerPC architecture)?

[brandonshough]

What about the iBook G4s which had "non-Industry standard" parts (PowerPC architecture)?

:D LOL

[NEiMac]

I have one of the Core Duo 1.83 Macbooks, its been a great computer, got it at the end of the life cycle though. Only probs I've ever had was a small crack on the bottom front and the shinny areas from rubbing, hardly anything I can't live with. I would have no problems getting a new one and plan on it. I am sorry you had such a hard time with yours though that sucks! Hope you get it fixed.

[Mal]

Read the entire thread. They already sent an email to that address, and are dealing with a very high level employee. It's really rather surprising how this has been handled, and I think at this point they are absolutely correct in turning to legal means when their repeated attempts at reasonable resolution failed.

Sorry, missed that little note at the end of the post. I'm surprised there wasn't a better response from that.

jW