Apple Pulls out of NAB 2008

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Macenstein reports (http://macenstein.com/default/archives/1116) that Apple has decided not to exhibit at the 2008 National Association of Broadcasters (http://www.nab.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home) conference which takes place from April 11-17 in Las Vegas, NV."Apple is participating in fewer trade shows this year," said Anuj Nayar, senior manager of PR at Apple. "Often there are better ways to reach our customers. The increasing popularity of our retail stores and Apple.com Web site allows us to directly reach more than 100 million customers around the world in innovative new ways."
The news follows (http://www.avid.com/company/releases/2007/071113_customer_avid.html) an earlier announcement by Avid that they would also not be exhibiting at this year's NAB conference. We'd heard rumors that Apple would be pulling out of NAB and that the reason was primarily motived by the high cost of exhibiting.

In 2007, Apple even held a special event ([url="http://macenstein.com/default/archives/1116) at NAB, announcing a number of updates to their professional video applications.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/07/apple-pulls-out-of-nab-2008/)

[amac4me]

Apple has historically released new products at NAB such as Final Cut Studio (April 2007) and the first 17-inch MacBook Pro (April 2006). I wonder if this means that products Apple usually releases at NAB will be released earlier (hopefully not later! :confused:)

[MoreMaypo]

More importantly, no MBP update yet... :p

[4God]

So , I guess there'll be a separate event to announce new ACD's.

[tadunne]

2008 the year of mac hell!?

[psychofreak]

So , I guess there'll be a separate event to announce new ACD's.

And Aperture 2.0...

[fluidedge]

interesting - apple were conspicuous by their absence from the Broadcast Live/Video Forum 08 in London earlier this month too.

Avid had a fairly pathetic stand there too.

[4God]

And Aperture 2.0...

Ahh...you're right. I wonder if there'll be updates to Final Cut Studio 2 then?
I'm thinking better use of SSE4 instructions.

[jaw04005]

And Aperture 2.0...

Aperture doesn't belong at NAB. You should see something about Aperture at Photokina.

This news is disappointing to those waiting for Blu-ray support. Apparently, no Final Cut Studio 2.5 announcement this year.

The question for Apple is what the hell is going on with DVD Studio? Where's DVD Studio Pro 4.5 or 5? Blu-ray authoring support? I suppose Final Cut Server is vaporware?

[CmdrLaForge]

Poor NAB guys. Without Apple and Avid I wonder who goes there.

[Nuvi]

I wasn't expecting new FCP / Studio but I was hoping to see that rumored high end edit station (FCP Extreme) from Apple. No show at NAB just means they don't have any new products for broadcasting/video/film market. :(

[Nuvi]

Poor NAB guys. Without Apple and Avid I wonder who goes there.

Everyone, NAB is huge for broadcasting/film/video industry.

[OriginalMacRat]

The recession has begun after all. Forking out $$ for those conferences has an impact on the bottom line.

[AoWolf]

To me this means macbooks before NAB. Which is a good thing.

[desenso]

2008 the year of mac hell!?

Hmm.. I have an all-2008 lineup of Macs and I'd be hard pressed to describe it as "hellish."

:rolleyes:

[toke lahti]

So , I guess there'll be a separate event to announce new ACD's.
I guess that there will not be any new ACDs... or DvdStudioPro... or blu-ray...
Hope they announce led backlit 17" MBP at least at WWDC!

[killmoms]

With $16 billion or so in the bank and no debt, I'm not buying the "we don't have the money" excuse. This is clearly due to the lack of things to show: to wit, no significant announcements to make regarding the Final Cut suite of apps (most notably DVD Studio Pro which is now lagging significantly behind Adobe Encore in terms of HD authoring capabilities).

[fluidedge]

NAB is massive even without apple - for both apple and avid not to be there is surpising to say the least. It'll leave Adobe free to show everyone Premiere.

Sony and Panasonic have huge stands at these confrences showing off all the latest gear.

Apple weren't at Broadcast Live in london like I said, but there were a couple of people there from apple giving seminars on Final Cut/Podcasting etc - I dare say they will do the same at NAB

And of course there are loads of official resellers selling/demoing all the existing products.

If apple have nothing new to reveal there is little point in them being there. A good sized stand will cost about $10000/$15000 a day at an event like this.

[Nuvi]

To me this means macbooks before NAB. Which is a good thing.

NAB isn't place for MB or even MBP if they don't come with ability to edit 4k or something as amazing as that out of box :). NAB is for broadcasting, film and video innovations. It is by far the biggest tech expo for moving image professionals.

[Stampyhead]

Maybe if these shows didn't have such high exhibitor fees exhibitors would be more likely to go.

[iBunny]

They had to pull out of NAB. Their big announcement was going to be 10.5.2 but they know its going to take alot longer than April to be complete. So maybe it will be announced in the summer :)

[will99]

But how does this affect 10.5.2?
;)
Apple doesn't have anything new to offer at NAB so why would they go in the first place?

[Reach]

Just give us some info on "Phenomenon" sometime soon, and I'll be happy. I don't care where they release it, I won't be going to NAB anyway. :)

[Chisholm]

At least Avid and Apple won't be shouting over each other in their demos. That floor gets SO loud.

[FunkyJunk]

Poor NAB guys. Without Apple and Avid I wonder who goes there.

I went to the NAB show last year for business and believe me, Apple won't really be missed much. They are actually a pretty small part of the entire show. There are microphone companies, monitor companies, television camera companies, television truck-studio companies, control board companies, portable digital recorder companies, etc. etc. ad infinitum. Any piece of hardware or software; any product or service even remotely related to the broadcasting industry is represented there.

I was actually suprised that Apple didn't really have that large of a booth compared to a lot of other companies. They had a theater area to show off Final Cut stuff and a few banks of Macs set up with Final Cut software, but aside from that there wasn't much to it. If they don't have anything new for Final Cut, I can't imagine why they'd bother, frankly.

[Nuvi]

Take a look at this:

http://www.nabshow.com/2008/exhibitor/acquisitionProduction.asp

If I'm not seeing things thats Apple logo right there at NAB map. I'm guessing that the cancelation means that the product they would like to demo wasn't ready (FCP Extreme ;))

[Popeye206]

Trade shows have been a huge Black hole to toss money down for many companies and the value is getting less and less as the cost goes through the roof. I think it's smart of Apple... they don't need to be there (like CES) and still steal the show.

[gugy]

So , I guess there'll be a separate event to announce new ACD's.

I don't think so.
I would predict they might be refresh at WWDC.

[Data]

No new products no need to show up .

[sarge]

Won't be long now before NAB is cancelled altogether in favor of the National Association of YouTubers - thanks in no small part to FCP

[thebeat]

this means macbook pros will be released A LOT EARLIER

[matperk]

They had to pull out of NAB. Their big announcement was going to be 10.5.2 but they know its going to take alot longer than April to be complete. So maybe it will be announced in the summer :)

10.5.2 is going to be out in like days. They are seeding versions to devs faster than ever and each one contains almost NO bug fixes.

[dante@sisna.com]

this means macbook pros will be released A LOT EARLIER

Unlikely.

[InLikeALion]

10.5.2 is going to be out in like days. They are seeding versions to devs faster than ever and each one contains almost NO bug fixes.

I think you missed the humor in their intended, sarcastic undertones.

[Orng]

I recommend you go to monster.com and look for a career as an editor. At the very least, that might keep you from making useless posts that add nothing to the discussion.

But you might have to go without a few things every now and then. Soup night tonight! Hooray...

Yeah, lately I've been going through Monster.com looking for a career as something besides a video editor.

-an underpaid editor

[arkmannj]

I hope DVD Studio gets upgraded still...

[4God]

I guess that there will not be any new ACDs... or DvdStudioPro... or blu-ray...
Hope they announce led backlit 17" MBP at least at WWDC!

I don't think so.
I would predict they might be refresh at WWDC.

Man, I hope we don't have to wait 'til June for refreshes.

....I suppose Final Cut Server is vaporware?

Ouch! That's gotta hurt.

[fcpguy]

Wow that's kind of a bummer. I go to NAB every year and the last few years Apple has had one of the biggest most exciting booths in the post production area. Not to mention, going to the Apple event on Sunday was a lot of fun as well. The post production area is gonna seem kinds empty without AVID and Apple there. Oh well, on the bright side I'll now have more time to party and gamble :D

[InLikeALion]

As I've moved to doing mostly print/web design there really isn't something that NAB would offer me. However, it saddens me when Apple show's signs of slowing innovation for their pro markets. Like how they stagnated the Mac Pros last year, and how a lot of their pro software has seen few incramental updates and fixes to problems.

Also, can the handful of you guys trashing the thread with grammer please stop? Pointless posts that are OT make more work for the mods and devalue the quality of the forums. Please?

[super bad]

http://nabshow.bdmetrics.com/portal/GeneralSearch.aspx?keyword=apple

does this explain anything we do or don't know already?

[jazman]

I went to the NAB show last year for business and believe me, Apple won't really be missed much. They are actually a pretty small part of the entire show. There are microphone companies, monitor companies, television camera companies, television truck-studio companies, control board companies, portable digital recorder companies, etc. etc. ad infinitum. Any piece of hardware or software; any product or service even remotely related to the broadcasting industry is represented there.

I was actually suprised that Apple didn't really have that large of a booth compared to a lot of other companies. They had a theater area to show off Final Cut stuff and a few banks of Macs set up with Final Cut software, but aside from that there wasn't much to it. If they don't have anything new for Final Cut, I can't imagine why they'd bother, frankly.


Well we must have been at two different shows because Apple was one of the hottest spots at NAB for the last two years. In fact the reason that they moved them to they middle of the South Hall last year is because they wanted more traffic to flow through the Hall. Before people would always come in and stop at the LARGE Apple booth and bottleneck the traffic. They also got a lot of press in the daily NAB paper. So to say they won't be missed makes you sound like an NAB newb.

[termite]

Insane. FCP is assassinating Avid. Apple needs to be there to finish the job of killing off Avid. This is THE video show for Final Cut customers and XSAN customers, and for Apple to miss it is just stupid.

[matperk]

I think you missed the humor in their intended, sarcastic undertones.

It's been far too long of a day already to distinguish humor and idiocracy :o.

My apologies!

[rockstarjoe]

Well, they may have pulled out of NAB, but rumor has it that they have an event planned for the end of February (although it probably is about the iPhone SDK, not any Pro apps...)

http://www.tuaw.com/2008/02/07/rumor-apple-event-the-last-week-of-february/

[InLikeALion]

It's been far too long of a day already to distinguish humor and idiocracy :o.

My apologies!

No worries. Long days will do that.

[numbsafari]

They pulled out because they are going to buy Adobe and didn't want to pay the exhibitor fees twice.

j/k

[iAthena]

I guess they're just saving the money. Those that are interested in Apple products know how to get the information without attending some launch at NAB.

[Keebler]

i'm quite surprised by this not for the lack of a product announcement b/c they can do that anytime, but am I reading too much into it? I question why they wouldn't go? not interested in being a leader in broadcasting/film-making?

interesting...

[JDC55]

Trade shows have been a huge Black hole to toss money down for many companies and the value is getting less and less as the cost goes through the roof. I think it's smart of Apple... they don't need to be there (like CES) and still steal the show.

This man speaks the truth. Along with the money who wants to deal with the trade show unions. Why do I have to hire union labor at $65+ an hour to screw in a light bulb?

[oldwatery]

As I've moved to doing mostly print/web design there really isn't something that NAB would offer me. However, it saddens me when Apple show's signs of slowing innovation for their pro markets. Like how they stagnated the Mac Pros last year, and how a lot of their pro software has seen few incramental updates and fixes to problems.


I agree.
This is more news that indicates there is a big shift towards becoming just a consumer electronics company.
The lack of new pro software, and other notable hardware items like displays is very worrying indeed.
I guess when they dropped Computer from their name it really meant something.
The idea that booth space is expensive is just too ludicrous for words.
Sad :(

[fcpguy]

Well we must have been at two different shows because Apple was one of the hottest spots at NAB for the last two years. In fact the reason that they moved them to they middle of the South Hall last year is because they wanted more traffic to flow through the Hall. Before people would always come in and stop at the LARGE Apple booth and bottleneck the traffic. They also got a lot of press in the daily NAB paper. So to say they won't be missed makes you sound like an NAB newb.

Yeah you are absolutely right jazman....I was gonna say something about that too, but decided not to. I'm not sure what show funkyjunk was at either, but Apple's presence last year was huge and they will definitely be missed. I think Apple is making a big mistake by not being there...I can understand perhaps not having such a big booth because of lack of new products, but to pull out altogether is bad strategy. The fact that AVID pulled out should have given them even more of a reason to stay there and steal more business from them.

[notjustjay]

Your correction was pointless, especially seeing as the original was a perfectly good use of the English language.

Reminds me of the time I finally got mad after seeing someone use the word "whinging" a few too many times and I fired off a snappy response: "It's spelled WHINING, you _____".

Oh boy, did I ever get it.

As for Apple, I can see why they wouldn't need to be at NAB, but sometimes it's about maintaining mind-share rather than necessarily showing off the latest and greatest. If there will be all sorts of other companies representing hardware, software, lighting, editing, cameras, etc. then why shouldn't Apple be part of that mix? They might not have anything revolutionary to show off but their continued presence establishes in people's minds that Apple is as much a brand associated with broadcasting as Sony or Panasonic.

[oldwatery]

This man speaks the truth. Along with the money who wants to deal with the trade show unions. Why do I have to hire union labor at $65+ an hour to screw in a light bulb?

Fair enough...I've had to deal with those rip off merchants myself.
Very annoying and costly.
But if you want to play in the sandbox you gotta get in it whatever.
If other co's can do it surely Apple can too?
That's if they want to reach out to us pros any more.

[swagi]

Aperture doesn't belong at NAB. You should see something about Aperture at Photokina.

This news is disappointing to those waiting for Blu-ray support. Apparently, no Final Cut Studio 2.5 announcement this year.

The question for Apple is what the hell is going on with DVD Studio? Where's DVD Studio Pro 4.5 or 5? Blu-ray authoring support? I suppose Final Cut Server is vaporware?

I guess even worse is that 'Phenomenon' seems to be vaporware.

I personally am in no way affiliated to the broadcasting industry, but I think Shake is getting quite old, isn't it?

[louden]

Say Apple does update the ACD's but they'll be ready prior to NAB. If I'm Apple in this quarter, I want new products out there as soon as possible to maximize sales - that means if the timing for NAB isn't great - I'll skip it, and release whatever those products are - new MBPs or new ACDs prior to that date.

To me, this means we'll see new MBPs and ACDs prior to NAB.

[fluidedge]

this is deeper than just the lack of a product launch at NAB, I think this is the first sign of Apple starting to move away from regular updates to Pro Products.

Apple are much more focused on consumer level products - iPod/iPhone/iTunes store (movies)/iMacs/:apple:TV the list goes on - at the moment. I think it is getting to the stage where there isn't much you can't do in final cut, there isn't much you can't do in Logic (i'm told) - Why do we need MAJOR updates to software all the time?

Hardware is another thing, but updates to the MBP are hardly overdue and the MP is all new and shiny.

There are updates due - Aperture 2.0, but we know that is probably coming, and Final Cut server is sort of there for those that need it (major studios that use FC will have been approached by apple)

Blu-Ray/HD-DVD is perhaps the future, but Apple really sees the future in Downloads.

[InLikeALion]

Say Apple does update the ACD's but they'll be ready prior to NAB. If I'm Apple in this quarter, I want new products out there as soon as possible to maximize sales - that means if the timing for NAB isn't great - I'll skip it, and release whatever those products are - new MBPs or new ACDs prior to that date.

To me, this means we'll see new MBPs and ACDs prior to NAB.

But that still doesn't make sense. Apple would still want to be there to show off these new pro pieces, and make the sales pitch to the broadcasters as to why they should use Apple solutions over competitors. A lot of times at things like this companies could care less whether or not something is actually revealed with fanfare at the show. They just need solid solutions that work, even if it's been out for a few months.

[thworple]

One of the major reasons why Apple won't be at NAB is the problems they've been having with Final Cut Server.

We've been looking for a new asset management system for our company for some time now, and have been doing a bit of research into FCS, and all the feedback we've gotten back is that Apple simply haven't got the product working very well. Now, this is surprising seeing as they bought the platform (Artbox) from Proximity in 2006. Methinks that the allocation of Apple software engineers from one area to another last year (from OS X to iPhone and back again) has had a knock on effect on their other areas as well, most notably on unreleased products such as this.

I spoke to several different vendors at Broadcast Live in London last week, and they all said the same thing. FCS was very appealing to us, but we're now looking at CatDV, that does pretty much everything FCS does, but is available now.

So for Apple to turn up to NAB with no products would just be a waste of time and resources. All those moaning about 'no MBPs' have to remember that the most important Apple product to the broadcast industry is their Final Cut software family.

[InLikeALion]

Now, this is surprising seeing as they bought the platform (Artbox) from Proximity in 2006. Methinks that the allocation of Apple software engineers from one area to another last year (from OS X to iPhone and back again) has had a knock on effect on their other areas as well, most notably on unreleased products such as this.


I can sympathize and agree with what you said except for this. OS engineers and application engineers don't cross. If Apple truly is deciding to not follow through with our pro apps, it's a conscious decision re-allocate funds/resources, but not because they took a FCS coder and asked him to go work on coding the Leopard dock.

[twoodcc]

well this is bad news. i guess no updates there this year

[jnc]

Good for Apple, this stops analysts and rumour hogs pinning all their hopes and expectations on seeing new things at such events.

[wyldelee]

Apple is a hardware company. macs, ipods, iphones, etc.... They sell software applications in order to sell more hardware, not because of their love of video.

The actual industry rumor was that Adobe was trying to buy the Apple Pro Video division.... not the other way around.

Neither Avid nor Apple will be at NAB because NAB was trying to extort both companies with huge increases and an unbelievably outrageous sum of money to display. Not enough bang for the amount of buck being charged and a bad business decision to proceed at those prices.

[fluidedge]

updates aren't always good news you know - if it ain't broke don't fix it

*cough* iMac *cough*

[thworple]

I can sympathize and agree with what you said except for this. OS engineers and application engineers don't cross. If Apple truly is deciding to not follow through with our pro apps, it's a conscious decision re-allocate funds/resources, but not because they took a FCS coder and asked him to go work on coding the Leopard dock.

Perhaps you're right. Thinking about it they would probably have taken some of Proximity's engineers with them to work on this product anyway.

It seems a shame they haven't got as far as they stated they would with this though. It would have been the perfect time to release it at NAB '08, as Apple have taken to releasing Final Cut Pro/Studio updates bi-annually in recent years. With this being a year between releases, it would have been a perfect time to bring out this new product.

[toke lahti]

NAB isn't place for MB or even MBP if they don't come with ability to edit 4k or something as amazing as that out of box :).
Wasn't it NAB2006, when Apple announced first 17" MBP?
Well, RED is there, I won't :(

[fluidedge]

Apple is a hardware company

Apple is a software company

he has said this in several interviews, sorry but you're bang wrong saying apple is a hardware company, it really isn't.

i think he said it in the Jobs/Gates/Mossburg interview didn't he?

[thworple]

The actual industry rumor was that Adobe was trying to buy the Apple Pro Video division.... not the other way around.



I haven't heard this rumor anywhere. It certainly wasn't on anyone's lips at Broadcast Live (which I admit isn't the largest of industry shows). Can you link to any evidence of this?

[toke lahti]

I can sympathize and agree with what you said except for this. OS engineers and application engineers don't cross.
This time they should cross. OsX needs to have support for HDCP for bd-movies. And next DvdSP should be able to author those...

[toke lahti]

The actual industry rumor was that Adobe was trying to buy the Apple Pro Video division.
Adobe really needs fcp. Premiere is buggy as hell and there's a lot of things really wrong. Although, I've been batch capturing 1080i50 hdv with fcp6 whole week and it just keeps crashing... Why focus European hd formats, they are still not so widely used...
Shake developers came from Sony and fcp from Macromedia, if I remember correctly. So fcp would just come back home...

[milo]

I don't think this is really an indication either way about possible FCS (and related products) updates.

People speculated to death about when Logic 8 would ship based on apple's attendance at music/audio events. There were major events right around the time they shipped it, first major update to that app in 3 years or so...and apple's presence at those events was minimal or nothing.

I think apple just doesn't think most of these events are worth doing any more. If apple announces a new pro level product, people will know about it whether they demo it at a show or not. Does anyone think apple really sells that many more copies of FCS 2.5 or 3 or whatever just because they show up at a trade show?

[Pukey]

I agree.
This is more news that indicates there is a big shift towards becoming just a consumer electronics company.
The lack of new pro software, and other notable hardware items like displays is very worrying indeed.
I guess when they dropped Computer from their name it really meant something.
The idea that booth space is expensive is just too ludicrous for words.
Sad :(

This is what I am afraid of. I hope it's not what's really happening. Though in some ways it does feel like Apple is shifting away from the Pro market. This Quote makes it sound like exactly that ("customers" apparently being the average consumer):

"Apple is participating in fewer trade shows this year," said Anuj Nayar, senior manager of PR at Apple. "Often there are better ways to reach our customers. The increasing popularity of our retail stores and Apple.com Web site allows us to directly reach more than 100 million customers around the world in innovative new ways."

Apple is a hardware company. macs, ipods, iphones, etc.... They sell software applications in order to sell more hardware, not because of their love of video.

The actual industry rumor was that Adobe was trying to buy the Apple Pro Video division.... not the other way around.

Neither Avid nor Apple will be at NAB because NAB was trying to extort both companies with huge increases and an unbelievably outrageous sum of money to display. Not enough bang for the amount of buck being charged and a bad business decision to proceed at those prices.

What are your resources for this information, the point you make about extortion? Can you provide a link or something?

[termite]

Thinking about it they would probably have taken some of Proximity's engineers with them to work on this product anyway.

I like the Proximity guys but.... their development process has been horrifically slow. They interface to some of our stuff and the time between them getting a contract and contacting me about how to interface is measured in years.

[wyldelee]

If Apple were primarily a software company then Apple s/w products would not be Apple h/w specific. They would want to sell as much s/w as possible on any viable platform, we all know this is not the case.

Mind you, I am not saying that they are not innovative company, I am saying they are a hardware company first, and one that is primarily consumer not professionally oriented.

Apple would have little reason or need to buy Adobe...it certainly would not be for Premiere.

[bennyboi]

I too, have attended within the last 4 years, and agree with many that Apple's presence is exciting and fresh. I've seen the large theater and banks of computers. Why not scale back to a smaller booth? After all, Apple's unofficial design motto is: Less is more. And when it comes to system capabilities- one mac pro can pack sooo much in 1 system. Let that be the point. Have 1 booth. 1 system needed for Graphics / Mix / Edit / Color Correction / DVD output. 1 demo on loop. Simple.

[fluidedge]

Adobe really needs fcp. Premiere is buggy as hell and there's a lot of things really wrong. Although, I've been batch capturing 1080i50 hdv with fcp6 whole week and it just keeps crashing... Why focus European hd formats, they are still not so widely used...
Shake developers came from Sony and fcp from Macromedia, if I remember correctly. So fcp would just come back home...

to be honest i;d love adobe to take on Final cut. EVERYONE uses photoshop and after effects (OK not everyone, but a lot) somewhere in their workflow. why not seemlessly integrate it into CS4 - bring it to windows OS and get hollywood involved with final cut!

[puckhead193]

so i'm guessing no shake replacement...

[fluidedge]

I don't think this is really an indication either way about possible FCS (and related products) updates.

People speculated to death about when Logic 8 would ship based on apple's attendance at music/audio events. There were major events right around the time they shipped it, first major update to that app in 3 years or so...and apple's presence at those events was minimal or nothing.

I think apple just doesn't think most of these events are worth doing any more. If apple announces a new pro level product, people will know about it whether they demo it at a show or not. Does anyone think apple really sells that many more copies of FCS 2.5 or 3 or whatever just because they show up at a trade show?

apple shouldn't be so selfish to think people go to shows to see just new products from apple. Apple should be there to show support for the smaller companies that develop products/add ons to their products - standing side by side with them to display and demo the very best solutions in Final Cut/Logic etc

[fluidedge]

If Apple were primarily a software company then Apple s/w products would not be Apple h/w specific. They would want to sell as much s/w as possible on any viable platform, we all know this is not the case.

Mind you, I am not saying that they are not innovative company, I am saying they are a hardware company first, and one that is primarily consumer not professionally oriented.

Apple would have little reason or need to buy Adobe...it certainly would not be for Premiere.

oh it's definitly consumer orientated, i agree there - ilife, iwork, itunes etc

[JoshH]

Yeah you are absolutely right jazman....I was gonna say something about that too, but decided not to. I'm not sure what show funkyjunk was at either, but Apple's presence last year was huge and they will definitely be missed. I think Apple is making a big mistake by not being there...I can understand perhaps not having such a big booth because of lack of new products, but to pull out altogether is bad strategy. The fact that AVID pulled out should have given them even more of a reason to stay there and steal more business from them.

I agree with you guys, too. But giving funkyjunk the benefit of the doubt, I think he means the details of the actual booth were simple -- classically Apple simple. Other big booths had stuff everywhere, but Apple's, while centered around the theater, was simple using the demo booths around the exterior. Where I see it as simple, clean, and well thought out, others may see it as uninspired and boring. I think he saw the latter. Regardless, it was definitely one of the hottest booths on the floor. The theater was packed for every demo I saw.

[fluidedge]

I too, have attended within the last 4 years, and agree with many that Apple's presence is exciting and fresh. I've seen the large theater and banks of computers. Why not scale back to a smaller booth? After all, Apple's unofficial design motto is: Less is more. And when it comes to system capabilities- one mac pro can pack sooo much in 1 system. Let that be the point. Have 1 booth. 1 system needed for Graphics / Mix / Edit / Color Correction / DVD output. 1 demo on loop. Simple.

I think given the size of the Adobe/Sony/Pansonic/(Avid - RIP) stands there is no way apple would be there with a small booth - sends out very bad message, it has to be all or nothing really

[CalfCanuck]

Apparently, no Final Cut Studio 2.5 announcement this year.
Wasn't FCP Studio 2 just released last year? Seems that the normal upgrade is 18-24 months. I understand your concern about Blu-ray, but we don;t even have a BTO option on the MP yet.

[LizKat]

2008 the year of mac hell!?

Yeah, let's see, is it December yet? Oops, nope, only February 7th.

We can send communications around the world a lot faster than we used to do, but it still takes us 12 months to get from one end of a year to the other.

Didn't someone suggest that the purpose of time itself is to keep everything from happening all at once?

Since I'm typing this from a MacBook Air, I'm personally convinced that Apple is having a very fine year.

[toke lahti]

Insane. FCP is assassinating Avid. Apple needs to be there to finish the job of killing off Avid. This is THE video show for Final Cut customers and XSAN customers, and for Apple to miss it is just stupid.
Maybe Apple will show up at NAB2009 to show new XRAID, when they have empied their inventory of old pata disks... :)

[toke lahti]

I like the Proximity guys but.... their development process has been horrifically slow.
How about PremierePro's development?
They've been building working version for a decade now. Still it doesn't handle basic things like project trimming or EDL export right. Maybe after another decade...

[targat]

huh??:confused:

Don't tell me apple that you are losing revenues...:p

[wyldelee]

How about PremierePro's development?
They've been building working version for a decade now. Still it doesn't handle basic things like project trimming or EDL export right. Maybe after another decade...

Couldn't think of any better reason for Adobe to want FCPro,than Premiere.....

[Nuvi]

to be honest i;d love adobe to take on Final cut. EVERYONE uses photoshop and after effects (OK not everyone, but a lot) somewhere in their workflow. why not seemlessly integrate it into CS4 - bring it to windows OS and get hollywood involved with final cut!

No thanks! FCP is fine as it is with Apple. Regarding high end editing Apple should release FCP Extreme with realtime 4K and release The Tremor (the high end "version" of Shake that Nothing Real developed before it was bought by Apple). I have to say Hollywood is very much involved with FCP its great tool but lacks the hardware integration that working in 4K really requires. So get the Tremor and FCP Extreme out and we're rocking! ...and yes forget Adobe & Windows and all that crap. Premier is kids toy. When it comes high end nobody uses After Effects. You would be looking at Inferno or similar to do the job. Trust me, Adobe is as far as it can be from high end film work.

[Alpinism]

Who needs the pros nowadays when Apple got all the 13 year old ever so eagerly posting their unboxing pic of their iphone, ipods, itouch and the mac pro ? and not to mention buying new ipods twice or thrice a year.

Perhaps they forgot that the pros were the one that helped Apple when they were in financial troubles. Eg, the desktop publishing industry uses Quark in the 90's and commanded 90% of the marketplace. Not to mention the original Mac users tend to be artists, graphic designers, filmmakers and musicians.

[Psychic Shopper]

Looking for new gear for your audio/video setup? Dude, google it!.. or you could fly to Las Vegas, spend a bunch of money and time and see the same things you saw on a webpage....
Tradeshows have been in decline for years and all those cities that built new Convention centers like Atlanta and Detroit are losing money on them. The information age has a newer better faster way of getting information, the search engine.

[vixapphire]

Hmm.. I have an all-2008 lineup of Macs and I'd be hard pressed to describe it as "hellish."

:rolleyes:

wow, Satan, is that you?:eek:

[vixapphire]

Unlikely.

heh... Dante, I just picked up a cheaper than cheap 1Gig TiBook to "ti" me over to the montevina MBP's later this year. Got tired of waiting, and didn't want to end up buying a current 2.6 w/o sse4 just to find myself kicking self in the groin when apple updates Logic w/ sse4 support in a year...

Happy to say I'm off the crack that is "forum addiction", at least for a little while.;)

Infernally yours,

vic

[scrambledwonder]

The recession has begun after all. Forking out $$ for those conferences has an impact on the bottom line.

Eggzonctly. Oh well. There's always the renewable energy conference! That's one growth area, fer sure.

[atomoboy]

I go to NAB most every year. I understand why AVID is pulling out... Apple is killing them. The boys in Cupertino have successfully redefined video post and to some extent, audio post as well. However, Apple not being there is an odd move. NAB is as much about marketing as it is about bravado.

Oh well, Apple never gave out cool swag at their booth anyway.

[Scottgfx]

When it comes high end nobody uses After Effects. You would be looking at Inferno or similar to do the job. Trust me, Adobe is as far as it can be from high end film work.

Lets see... You're comparing the top motion graphics design package with a compositing system. There is some crossover in feature sets, but they are different tools aimed at different markets. You would probably be surprised at how much "High End" motion design for both TV and film has been done in AE.

[bigandy]

This really surprises me, considering the leaps and bounds that Apple have been making in the very industry this event targets :rolleyes:

[wyldelee]

I go to NAB most every year. I understand why AVID is pulling out... Apple is killing them. The boys in Cupertino have successfully redefined video post and to some extent, audio post as well. However, Apple not being there is an odd move. NAB is as much about marketing as it is about bravado.

Oh well, Apple never gave out cool swag at their booth anyway.

That is an absurd cool aid drinking statement. On the high end of the professional market; broadcast, high end commercial post, and film if you surveyed every facility in the professional industry to determine marketshare....I can assure you the lionshare does not not belong to FCPro.

I like FCPro, it has created mass interest and the competition has pushed the entire industry to keep innovating..................... but it has not killed anything.

[BTW]

Apple has historically released new products at NAB such as Final Cut Studio (April 2007) and the first 17-inch MacBook Pro (April 2006). I wonder if this means that products Apple usually releases at NAB will be released earlier (hopefully not later! :confused:)

Dang-NAB-it! :eek: I hope so. :D

[FCPnewbie]

Anyone thinking the thread about the big media event have something to do with Apple ditching NAB?

Appleinsider has also heard whispers about an "unusual number of visual resources" being prepped for late February.

[SteveSparks]

This man speaks the truth. Along with the money who wants to deal with the trade show unions. Why do I have to hire union labor at $65+ an hour to screw in a light bulb?

The internet is making the need for a Tradeshow dwindle. Sure it is nice to talk to a person, but the days of week long shows and 100's of thousands of square feet of show is coming to an end.

[zebra451]

Oh great, I finally get to attend the NAB and Apple pulls out. Guess the only thing to do now is hang out in the casinos.

....well, at least I don't own AAPL stock! Take that Steve Jobs.

[BenRoethig]

I hope this isn't due to Apple being bored with the pro markets.

[FCPnewbie]

Oh great, I finally get to attend the NAB and Apple pulls out. Guess the only thing to do now is hang out in the casinos.


Spoken like someone who has never been before. Trust me, your head will be spinning by then end of your first day and you wouldn't have even seen half of what's there.

[Tosser]

I hope this isn't due to Apple being bored with the pro markets.

My thoughts exactly :(

I am serious here.

Perhaps not important, but first they removed firewire from the iPod (okay, since this is a music player, perhaps not significant in itself).

Then they tried pushing a MBP without the FW-800 port.

Then they stay out of the London-thingy

Then they come out with the Airbook, with no FW, but "woot!" a USB-port …

Now they stay away from one of the top exhibitions in the world (for pros, that is): NAB, using "cost" as the excuse.

All this in combination with the statement from jobs that they would like to be like "Sony" and the tiring focus on iPods and other low denominator consumer items, I am beginning to wonder whether it's about time to reconsider moving to another platform, to be sure I'm not investing in a dead end.

[Tosser]

Won't be long now before NAB is cancelled altogether in favor of the National Association of YouTubers - thanks in no small part to FCP

Haha, you're kidding, right? I hope so, because that's like saying blogging is journalism. Get real. There are much more to being a "pro" than having an advanced editing suite and some spare time spend fiddling.

You don't become a nurse or doctor either just because you happen to have a book on medicine and a stethoscope.

[SiliconAddict]

This isn't Macworld 2.0 Apple is a small fish in a very big pond. No one will miss them. So Meh. All I know is, I'm about a week, maybe a month away from buying lightroom. I've seen NO forward momentum with Aperture. Apple has this huge nest egg in their coffers yet they seem to be doing only a handful of projects here & there. No doubt iPhone 2.0 :rolleyes: :mad:

[Tosser]

This isn't Macworld 2.0 Apple is a small fish in a very big pond. No one will miss them. So Meh. All I know is, I'm about a week, maybe a month away from buying lightroom. I've seen NO forward momentum with Aperture. Apple has this huge nest egg in their coffers yet they seem to be doing only a handful of projects here & there. No doubt iPhone 2.0 :rolleyes: :mad:

Yup. I, for one, don't even dare buy any (expensive) software at the moment, as I am still on the fence whether this will continue to be my platform of choice.

– and to all people that take offense at the above (can't help but think of the usual "Don't let the door hit you on the way out", and "MS-fanboi" and what have you, I really like OS X, but it's only as useful as it is (if that makes sense to you). And I am not willing to end up the creek without a paddle from bad choices in tools.

[BenRoethig]

My thoughts exactly :(

I am serious here.

Perhaps not important, but first they removed firewire from the iPod (okay, since this is a music player, perhaps not significant in itself).

Then they tried pushing a MBP without the FW-800 port.

Then they stay out of the London-thingy

Then they come out with the Airbook, with no FW, but "woot!" a USB-port …

Now they stay away from one of the top exhibitions in the world (for pros, that is): NAB, using "cost" as the excuse.

All this in combination with the statement from jobs that they would like to be like "Sony" and the tiring focus on iPods and other low denominator consumer items, I am beginning to wonder whether it's about time to reconsider moving to another platform, to be sure I'm not investing in a dead end.

Add to that the lack of a Aperture update at the photo show and the complete lack of native Blu-Ray support on the mac. I've already heard of several Mac business owners in the event video business who have had to add a PC to the mix to be able to meet customer demands. I know they want to push itunes video, but lets not get ahead of ourselves here. As much as Apple is great at innovating, they also have an unfortunate tendency to lose interest in anything they can't innovate in.

Take Appleworks for example. It was considered to be one of the best word processors out there during the Claris days. When Jobs came in he didn't put any effort into it, let it get way behind MS Works on the PC side, and didn't give a second thought to the productivity arena until they could innovate with iWork.

There really doesn't seem to be that person at Apple who is the keeper of the mundane. If it isn't cool and new it doesn't seem to interest them. However if they keep thinking like that, I have to wonder if the pros will stay. They don't have the luxury of doing things on Apples schedule like those on the consumer side, they have a bottom line to think about.

[fluidedge]

No thanks! FCP is fine as it is with Apple. Regarding high end editing Apple should release FCP Extreme with realtime 4K and release The Tremor (the high end "version" of Shake that Nothing Real developed before it was bought by Apple). I have to say Hollywood is very much involved with FCP its great tool but lacks the hardware integration that working in 4K really requires. So get the Tremor and FCP Extreme out and we're rocking! ...and yes forget Adobe & Windows and all that crap. Premier is kids toy. When it comes high end nobody uses After Effects. You would be looking at Inferno or similar to do the job. Trust me, Adobe is as far as it can be from high end film work.

yeh i appreciate ultra high end wouldn't use AE (i edited my post!) - I thought Autodesk Flame was the one a lot used

[dAlen]

Steve, with this move it appears that you have abandoned the professional field. As of now things appear that apple is focused on the consumer market and 'business' market with the iphone & airbook.
(The iphone not prime for business yet, no 3G, and other issues, so your shooting yourself in the foot there also.)

What happened at PMA? No update to Aperture?
No show of commitment to the products you make. The trade shows are a good time to at least show your commitment and not leave people guessing if you have lost interest and just are 'focused' (if you can call it that) on airbooks and iphones.

Now NAB, no show? Avid, Media 100 gonna eat you for lunch if your not careful Apple. Arrogance will not suite you well. Yes you are reaching a market that doesnt even go to NAB, but at the same time you cant forget your roots. This at least keeps open and shows your commitment to these segments.

Even with the macbook pros.
Intel released updates (Penryn/Santarosa) and you cant even update/refresh the books? No clue, no word...just a lot of 'air'.

Used to you could blame IBM...not whats your game?
And what of the Pros who waited over a year for an update for the Mac Pros.

apple, oh dear apple.
Steve dont forget the Leopard you released late and still cant get 10.5.2 out of the door. That is a release that fixes the buggy introduction that you called a major update in software.

Be clear, dont be shy. If your about iphones and a bunch of hot air, just say so. Discreet has a nice line up. (you messed up there not buying Maya, now we have a monopoly in 3D as they own Maya and Max.)

Well, I will end the 'rant' here.

If you are committed, and you have other ways of showing it...then be clear about it. But your apple stores? Please remember international expat dont have access to your stores...only wanna be apples stores that dont offer the same experience.

Your website...How do you confirm your stance in the pro market with the web? Do you have on going training, etc? Or is it a store with a product and a movie about how the out dated product works?

Oh, you killed shake - did you ever replace it. Not even a hint at NAB.
Now I may have missed such announcement, but it doesnt seem so.

So whats up again? Trying to show you are above and separated from the rest of the world. Not participating in their games? There are different ways to view things, not sure this is the most beneficial way Steve.

You may think your iphone is hip and cool. The fact is, its missing quite a bit of stuff. Why cant you have a true GPA built into it and the ipod touch? You have a premium $ but not a premium product.

peace

dAlen

[fluidedge]

Looking for new gear for your audio/video setup? Dude, google it!.. or you could fly to Las Vegas, spend a bunch of money and time and see the same things you saw on a webpage....
Tradeshows have been in decline for years and all those cities that built new Convention centers like Atlanta and Detroit are losing money on them. The information age has a newer better faster way of getting information, the search engine.

trade shows aren't just a shopping mall.

have you ever been to one? There are dozens of seminars/presentations that are really instructive in helping people make desicions about gear/workflow refinement/business development.

no one really goes into a trade show and drops £10000 on kit do they? I usually spend no more than about £100 (books, tapes, prawn sandwiches...)

[fluidedge]

Lets see... You're comparing the top motion graphics design package with a compositing system. There is some crossover in feature sets, but they are different tools aimed at different markets. You would probably be surprised at how much "High End" motion design for both TV and film has been done in AE.

I think he meant flame rather than inferno - i agree though, after effects is a very powerful program, why not use it if it does what you need just because the 'industry' looks down it's nose a it a lot of the time?

I myself edit in Final Cut Express quite a lot of the time, we have one machine with FCStudio for big jobs and the other machines have FCE. For quick jobs, i like the simplicity of FCE, there is a lot of snobbery about software packages.

[Shagrat]

...

Didn't someone suggest that the purpose of time itself is to keep everything from happening all at once?


Yep... X.J. Kennedy (http://writersalmanac.publicradio.org/programs/2004/07/19/index.html)....

[OneArmedScissor]

Steve, with this move it appears that you have abandoned the professional field. As of now things appear that apple is focused on the consumer market and 'business' market with the iphone & airbook.
(The iphone not prime for business yet, no 3G, and other issues, so your shooting yourself in the foot there also.)

What happened at PMA? No update to Aperture?
No show of commitment to the products you make. The trade shows are a good time to at least show your commitment and not leave people guessing if you have lost interest and just are 'focused' (if you can call it that) on airbooks and iphones.

Now NAB, no show? Avid, Media 100 gonna eat you for lunch if your not careful Apple. Arrogance will not suite you well. Yes you are reaching a market that doesnt even go to NAB, but at the same time you cant forget your roots. This at least keeps open and shows your commitment to these segments.

Even with the macbook pros.
Intel released updates (Penryn/Santarosa) and you cant even update/refresh the books? No clue, no word...just a lot of 'air'.

Used to you could blame IBM...not whats your game?
And what of the Pros who waited over a year for an update for the Mac Pros.

apple, oh dear apple.
Steve dont forget the Leopard you released late and still cant get 10.5.2 out of the door. That is a release that fixes the buggy introduction that you called a major update in software.

Be clear, dont be shy. If your about iphones and a bunch of hot air, just say so. Discreet has a nice line up. (you messed up there not buying Maya, now we have a monopoly in 3D as they own Maya and Max.)

Well, I will end the 'rant' here.

If you are committed, and you have other ways of showing it...then be clear about it. But your apple stores? Please remember international expat dont have access to your stores...only wanna be apples stores that dont offer the same experience.

Your website...How do you confirm your stance in the pro market with the web? Do you have on going training, etc? Or is it a store with a product and a movie about how the out dated product works?

Oh, you killed shake - did you ever replace it. Not even a hint at NAB.
Now I may have missed such announcement, but it doesnt seem so.

So whats up again? Trying to show you are above and separated from the rest of the world. Not participating in their games? There are different ways to view things, not sure this is the most beneficial way Steve.

You may think your iphone is hip and cool. The fact is, its missing quite a bit of stuff. Why cant you have a true GPA built into it and the ipod touch? You have a premium $ but not a premium product.

peace

dAlen


Spot On. Spot On...

i think this should be mailed to sjobs.

[Swift]

...and nobody came?

I think that, while HDTV is seen as the great hope of the old broadcast infrastructure, sort of Color TV II, broadcast is collapsing as fast as the economy will carry it. Sure, HD is nice, and people are buying more and more of the sets as the price falls. But HD isn't at all the big savior for the networks, cable, and all the rest of the broadcast infrastructure. The whole idea of a stream of broadcasts, available now and not tomorrow, no matter how often it is repeated on HBO or the dozens of reuses a single movie can have, is defunct. We want HD podcasts. We want giant TiVos in the sky. We want to Google the world's video, the International Library of Audio-Visual, historical, recorded broadcasts. We want Video that we decide we want to see. Some can be free, some can be advertising supported, government-funded, or Pay Podcasts.

For 50 years, a small number of men have gotten incredibly wealthy telling us what to watch and when. We want to watch what we want to watch when we think of it. If I want to see the entire works of Alain Resnais, I want it now. If I want all the documentaries made about World War II, I want them now. I want to watch the show on my iPod, on my iPhone, on my computer, on the plane, on the train -- I grew up at a time when I couldn't watch all the TV I wanted to, I had to go upstairs and do my homework away from that. Now, it's just as often the book that is the distraction.

[Nuvi]

I think he meant flame rather than inferno - i agree though, after effects is a very powerful program, why not use it if it does what you need just because the 'industry' looks down it's nose a it a lot of the time?

I myself edit in Final Cut Express quite a lot of the time, we have one machine with FCStudio for big jobs and the other machines have FCE. For quick jobs, i like the simplicity of FCE, there is a lot of snobbery about software packages.

I actually meant Inferno and still do. Inferno and Flame has very similar feature sets but Inferno is MUCH faster and is more inclined towards film work with better grain control, CC etc. So if you are working in 4k with producers breathing down your neck you want Inferno. However, time on Flame is less expensive then in Inferno so therefore lot of motion graphics are done in Flame. AE and FFI (Flint, Flame, Inferno) are made for totally different user groups. One is high end work and other is mainstream. Without FFI doing the magic would take a life time.

[fluidedge]

I actually meant Inferno and still do. Inferno and Flame has very similar feature sets but Inferno is MUCH faster and is more inclined towards film work with better grain control, CC etc. So if you are working in 4k with producers breathing down your neck you want Inferno. However, time on Flame is less expensive then in Inferno so therefore lot of motion graphics are done in Flame.

:D fair enough

[louden]

But that still doesn't make sense. Apple would still want to be there to show off these new pro pieces, and make the sales pitch to the broadcasters as to why they should use Apple solutions over competitors. A lot of times at things like this companies could care less whether or not something is actually revealed with fanfare at the show. They just need solid solutions that work, even if it's been out for a few months.

So, it could make sense if you look at it from a perspective that Apple's target for ACDs and MBPs is much larger than those who go to NAB. So, maybe there's no new version ready for Aperture or Final Cut - you could then logically think that Apple doesn't need to hit the conference.

It can make sense!

And now we have this 2/26 event - so I still could be right.

[Project]

Steve, with this move it appears that you have abandoned the professional field. As of now things appear that apple is focused on the consumer market and 'business' market with the iphone & airbook.
(The iphone not prime for business yet, no 3G, and other issues, so your shooting yourself in the foot there also.)

What happened at PMA? No update to Aperture?
No show of commitment to the products you make. The trade shows are a good time to at least show your commitment and not leave people guessing if you have lost interest and just are 'focused' (if you can call it that) on airbooks and iphones.

Now NAB, no show? Avid, Media 100 gonna eat you for lunch if your not careful Apple. Arrogance will not suite you well. Yes you are reaching a market that doesnt even go to NAB, but at the same time you cant forget your roots. This at least keeps open and shows your commitment to these segments.

Even with the macbook pros.
Intel released updates (Penryn/Santarosa) and you cant even update/refresh the books? No clue, no word...just a lot of 'air'.

Used to you could blame IBM...not whats your game?
And what of the Pros who waited over a year for an update for the Mac Pros.

apple, oh dear apple.
Steve dont forget the Leopard you released late and still cant get 10.5.2 out of the door. That is a release that fixes the buggy introduction that you called a major update in software.

Be clear, dont be shy. If your about iphones and a bunch of hot air, just say so. Discreet has a nice line up. (you messed up there not buying Maya, now we have a monopoly in 3D as they own Maya and Max.)

Well, I will end the 'rant' here.

If you are committed, and you have other ways of showing it...then be clear about it. But your apple stores? Please remember international expat dont have access to your stores...only wanna be apples stores that dont offer the same experience.

Your website...How do you confirm your stance in the pro market with the web? Do you have on going training, etc? Or is it a store with a product and a movie about how the out dated product works?

Oh, you killed shake - did you ever replace it. Not even a hint at NAB.
Now I may have missed such announcement, but it doesnt seem so.

So whats up again? Trying to show you are above and separated from the rest of the world. Not participating in their games? There are different ways to view things, not sure this is the most beneficial way Steve.

You may think your iphone is hip and cool. The fact is, its missing quite a bit of stuff. Why cant you have a true GPA built into it and the ipod touch? You have a premium $ but not a premium product.

peace

dAlen


Go outside. Get some air. It ain't that serious.

[Tosser]

I don't know if this is new, but they're stating FC-server will be out early 2008:

http://www.apple.com/finalcutserver/

[Nuvi]

this is deeper than just the lack of a product launch at NAB, I think this is the first sign of Apple starting to move away from regular updates to Pro Products.

Apple are much more focused on consumer level products - iPod/iPhone/iTunes store (movies)/iMacs/:apple:TV the list goes on - at the moment. I think it is getting to the stage where there isn't much you can't do in final cut, there isn't much you can't do in Logic (i'm told) - Why do we need MAJOR updates to software all the time?

Hardware is another thing, but updates to the MBP are hardly overdue and the MP is all new and shiny.

There are updates due - Aperture 2.0, but we know that is probably coming, and Final Cut server is sort of there for those that need it (major studios that use FC will have been approached by apple)

Blu-Ray/HD-DVD is perhaps the future, but Apple really sees the future in Downloads.

Actually the lack of annual FCP upgrades is due to fact that users want finished product with minimum amount of bugs and therefore with least amount of updates / bug fixes. For Mac geeks (me included) its fun to get new 10.5.2 :D or similar updates but in reality one should hope for single release with no bugs to fix. Downtime for post houses is big no no and Apple has actually been listening, beta testing and communicating very well. On pro (at least video, don't know about anything else) line-up there should be less updates with more solid products. So this means more time between upgrades but more solid products that enable you to keep that money coming in. The next ground shaking release would be hardware integration with FCP / Tremor. Both of them will be expensive as hell from mainstream point of view but very competitive with AutoDesk IFFFS and Quantel products. With FC Server coming the turn-key systems would make Apple one of the major players among the high end post production equipment manufacturers. Only then will Apple have solid products from consumer (iMovie) to high end without forgetting the mainstream (FCP Studio).

I'm not the DVD / Blu-Ray guy but I bet there will be separate release at least for Blu-Ray support.

[Nuvi]

Oh, you killed shake - did you ever replace it. Not even a hint at NAB.
Now I may have missed such announcement, but it doesnt seem so.


Because Tremor isn't ready yet.

[wyldelee]

The decision makers in the broadcast, post, and film industries do not go to NAB every year to buy point products. They go to make decisions that will affect their buying patterns and plans for the entire year, and some, for many years.

The way they do this is not by standing on the floor and trying to see and hear over the shoulders of 5000 other people---they do it in private strategy rooms with manufacturere executives, workflow solutions experts, engineers, and demo personnel attending those meetings. They discuss the product roadmaps and future plans and the impact that it will have on that client's business and plans.

The floor presence is a great way to reach the many editors, artists, freelancers, schools, producers etc.

Apple is a consumer hardware company that sells software in order to sell more hardware. There is a lot more money in the consumer industry. The professional industry has been flatline as far as growth for the last decade and ASP's (average selling prices) have crashed. I don't fault Apple for making business decisions, only for leading people to believe that they are committed to the professional industry....when they clearly are not.

[Intarweb]

Apple has historically released new products at NAB such as Final Cut Studio (April 2007) and the first 17-inch MacBook Pro (April 2006). I wonder if this means that products Apple usually releases at NAB will be released earlier (hopefully not later! :confused:)

I just want them to release a functional Compressor 3. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[docwisdom]

Who gives a flying $%^&*( about the apple retail stores and Apple.com.

NAB gives PROFESSIONALS a chance to check out new gear and to pick the brains of the geeks a little bit. I would love to see someone try to go to an apple store and ask questions about Xserve and fiber channel and render clusters. It would be hilarious.
I was really hoping to hear about Final Cut Server at NAB this year. I guess its just vaporware for now. (As for the website saying early 2008. Apple has been saying that since NAB 07 and I doubt you will even see it then)

Yes, apple spent a %&^-load of money on their booth last year, but it was the largest aside from Sony and Avid. They could at least show up with a smaller booth, rather than drop out completely.

Apple is sucking up to the dumbass consumer way to much.

[Mindflux]

Those pullouts are always tricky. I personally try and go for the face after pulling out.
:D

[fcpguy]

Steve, with this move it appears that you have abandoned the professional field. As of now things appear that apple is focused on the consumer market and 'business' market with the iphone & airbook.
(The iphone not prime for business yet, no 3G, and other issues, so your shooting yourself in the foot there also.)

What happened at PMA? No update to Aperture?
No show of commitment to the products you make. The trade shows are a good time to at least show your commitment and not leave people guessing if you have lost interest and just are 'focused' (if you can call it that) on airbooks and iphones.

Now NAB, no show? Avid, Media 100 gonna eat you for lunch if your not careful Apple. Arrogance will not suite you well. Yes you are reaching a market that doesnt even go to NAB, but at the same time you cant forget your roots. This at least keeps open and shows your commitment to these segments.

Even with the macbook pros.
Intel released updates (Penryn/Santarosa) and you cant even update/refresh the books? No clue, no word...just a lot of 'air'.

Used to you could blame IBM...not whats your game?
And what of the Pros who waited over a year for an update for the Mac Pros.

apple, oh dear apple.
Steve dont forget the Leopard you released late and still cant get 10.5.2 out of the door. That is a release that fixes the buggy introduction that you called a major update in software.

Be clear, dont be shy. If your about iphones and a bunch of hot air, just say so. Discreet has a nice line up. (you messed up there not buying Maya, now we have a monopoly in 3D as they own Maya and Max.)

Well, I will end the 'rant' here.

If you are committed, and you have other ways of showing it...then be clear about it. But your apple stores? Please remember international expat dont have access to your stores...only wanna be apples stores that dont offer the same experience.

Your website...How do you confirm your stance in the pro market with the web? Do you have on going training, etc? Or is it a store with a product and a movie about how the out dated product works?

Oh, you killed shake - did you ever replace it. Not even a hint at NAB.
Now I may have missed such announcement, but it doesnt seem so.

So whats up again? Trying to show you are above and separated from the rest of the world. Not participating in their games? There are different ways to view things, not sure this is the most beneficial way Steve.

You may think your iphone is hip and cool. The fact is, its missing quite a bit of stuff. Why cant you have a true GPA built into it and the ipod touch? You have a premium $ but not a premium product.

peace

dAlen

Holy cow you people need to settle down. As much as I am disappointed with apple pulling out of NAB as well this isn't the end of the world or the pro market.
Anyone who knows the "pro" video market knows that post facilities and the like do not upgrade every year unless equipment is getting old or there is something so compelling they must have it. Stability is key in the post production world, so if it ain't broke and it does everything you need then don't fix it. Schedules are designed in such a way that there is very little time allocated for computer/software malfunctions. In fact many productions simply rent their equipment from rental places that use equipment that is years old...I personally know people who work on very high end reality shows that still cut on G4 OS 9 AVID's!!!
NAB for Apple is really designed for the FCP suite, media management and high end graphics/compositing suits. Apeture, monitors and the like have no business being introduced there...in fact, the only reason the 17' was released a few years back at NAB was because they needed to show FCP working on a portable intel machine.
Trust me when I say Apple is not abandoning their pro market....they are simply saying, why spend millions and millions of dollars to show what we showed last year, especially since AVID will not be there either. It makes zero sense for them. FCP server isn't ready, there's no new FCP suite and no reason to make a big to do about nothing. AVID is basically saying the same thing. And please the Media 100 isn't going to eat anyone's lunch, nor is premier...no one out here uses either of those for serious professional work.
I find posts like this and the guy who said I am going to switch platforms very annoying and arrogant because it shows a true lack of understanding about what NAB is all about and how people in the pro video world react to technological changes. Most of the time, it takes years for post houses to upgrade, so stuff we saw at NAB last year is still not totally making it way into daily use. The bottom line is some of you need to just settle down and stop reading so much into things. And if you so convinced apple is some how personally shunning you then go ahead and switch platforms to teach them a lesson....good luck finding work though!

[KillTheBunny]

I hope this isn't due to Apple being bored with the pro markets.

Well at least one guy(blogger) claims its a done deal. FCP etc is sold according to some..... I'll take my grain of salt now

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/fcapria/story/apple_avid_and_nab/

"Word on the street is that Apple has been shopping ProApps around since late last summer, and a deal was close last fall. Now such rumors have reached a fevered pitch, with ProApps apparently sold with all but the final announcement to be made. Potential buyers include Thompson, which has been on an acquisition spree of late, and would love to add an industrial strength NLE to its newsroom offerings.
No one will speak on the record for attribution. Until then anything can happen, but sources say morale in the ProApps group is low. Key members of the team have been moved to consumer-focused products like iMovie. Others have begun preparing for life after Apple.
If this is the case, Apple has little reason to throw a party for ProApps, and lopping a few million from the expense column makes the unit a lot more attractive to a buyer."

[Tosser]

I find posts like this and the guy who said I am going to switch platforms very annoying and arrogant because it shows a true lack of understanding about what NAB is all about and how people in the pro video world react to technological changes.

Get over yourself, you're accusing me of being arrogant, and telling me I lack a "true understanding" of NAB, when you utterly miss that NAB is more than video. If it haven't occured to you, NAB is audio too. NAB is ENG as well (look it up), and that includes radio and what else we have on the audio front. You're the arrogant bloke here, not realising that the next time one has to invest in tools, the seemingly shift of focus to cnsumer products while apparently ignoring the pro set will be a huge part of the decision making. You don't think the Beeb or The Danish Broadcast Corporation or other like them decide to get their support and their products from an Apple Store, do you?


Most of the time, it takes years for post houses to upgrade, so stuff we saw at NAB last year is still not totally making it way into daily use. The bottom line is some of you need to just settle down and stop reading so much into things.

Stupid argumentation. That argument would only work if you had a very (VERY) limited number of users, and you weren't interested in future customers. See, not everyone upgraded last year. Customers come and go. In essense you're saying that all the post houses (again not recognising that audio (and apple in that context) is about more than post.


And if you so convinced apple is some how personally shunning you then go ahead and switch platforms to teach them a lesson....good luck finding work though!

Oh, haha! That is excellent! Being the apologist you have shown yourself to be, you're telling me to find other work. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but being a journalist I have no problems finding other work, and, frankly, that fanboy-tone of yours is very, very childish to say the least. I am not sitting on the fence to teach anyone a lesson. I am saying I am on the fence, because that is what I am. You have shown yourself to be type of person that cannot handle reading someone is not blindly applauding SJ's complete shift of focus to the mass-consumer side of things and are reconsidering whether it's such a good idea to stay with Apples. You apparently have no clue either, that although Apple has a great chunk of the market(s), they're not alone in that market. People use a wide variety of products. Some are better of with other products. Grow up. Really.

[fcpguy]

Well at least one guy(blogger) claims its a done deal. FCP etc is sold according to some..... I'll take my grain of salt now

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/fcapria/story/apple_avid_and_nab/

"Word on the street is that Apple has been shopping ProApps around since late last summer, and a deal was close last fall. Now such rumors have reached a fevered pitch, with ProApps apparently sold with all but the final announcement to be made. Potential buyers include Thompson, which has been on an acquisition spree of late, and would love to add an industrial strength NLE to its newsroom offerings.
No one will speak on the record for attribution. Until then anything can happen, but sources say morale in the ProApps group is low. Key members of the team have been moved to consumer-focused products like iMovie. Others have begun preparing for life after Apple.
If this is the case, Apple has little reason to throw a party for ProApps, and lopping a few million from the expense column makes the unit a lot more attractive to a buyer."

Interesting article, thanks for putting it up. However, I don't buy it.
I have talked to a lot of reps in last few years and I have not gotten the sense that the pro apps are going anywhere right now. Taken a back seat, sure, but that also goes back to the fact that the pro apps do not need to be updated as frequently as consumer level products. I could be wrong and only time will tell, but it wouldn't make any sense at this point in time. Why would Apple sell off their pro apps division just when it is starting to make serious inroads into AVID's market share. Although, I suppose if Steve Jobs is bored with that market and the price is right, then anything could happen. I do know for a fact that there is some serious beta testing going on around town right now for some things that would fall into the NAB category, but that they are not ready for prime time yet. So it would seem weird for Apple to be pouring resources into beta testing products that they are going to sell soon. AVID on the other hand has needed to restructure for years and it is finally happening, it will be interesting to see what kind of company comes out on the other end.

[FunkyJunk]

Well we must have been at two different shows because Apple was one of the hottest spots at NAB for the last two years. In fact the reason that they moved them to they middle of the South Hall last year is because they wanted more traffic to flow through the Hall. Before people would always come in and stop at the LARGE Apple booth and bottleneck the traffic. They also got a lot of press in the daily NAB paper. So to say they won't be missed makes you sound like an NAB newb.

Sorry it took me a while to respond to this.

I admit I AM an NAB newb--it was my first year there--but let's be serious. They don't have anything significant to say about their video products that isn't already well-known by everyone who cares. There's not enough of a benefit to them to justify going.

As for Apple's booth being a hot spot, I didn't see that really. It was well-attended, but certainly not one of the big frontrunners. Sony's booth, the Red camera booth, and many others were more mobbed and had much more content. I found Apple's to be kind of boring, but that's in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

[fcpguy]

Get over yourself, you're accusing me of being arrogant, and telling me I lack a "true understanding" of NAB, when you utterly miss that NAB is more than video. If it haven't occured to you, NAB is audio too. NAB is ENG as well (look it up), and that includes radio and what else we have on the audio front. You're the arrogant bloke here, not realising that the next time one has to invest in tools, the seemingly shift of focus to cnsumer products while apparently ignoring the pro set will be a huge part of the decision making. You don't think the Beeb or The Danish Broadcast Corporation or other like them decide to get their support and their products from an Apple Store, do you?




Stupid argumentation. That argument would only work if you had a very (VERY) limited number of users, and you weren't interested in future customers. See, not everyone upgraded last year. Customers come and go. In essense you're saying that all the post houses (again not recognising that audio (and apple in that context) is about more than post.




Oh, haha! That is excellent! Being the apologist you have shown yourself to be, you're telling me to find other work. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but being a journalist I have no problems finding other work, and, frankly, that fanboy-tone of yours is very, very childish to say the least. I am not sitting on the fence to teach anyone a lesson. I am saying I am on the fence, because that is what I am. You have shown yourself to be type of person that cannot handle reading someone is not blindly applauding SJ's complete shift of focus to the mass-consumer side of things and are reconsidering whether it's such a good idea to stay with Apples. You apparently have no clue either, that although Apple has a great chunk of the market(s), they're not alone in that market. People use a wide variety of products. Some are better of with other products. Grow up. Really.

I am fully aware of what NAB is and is not, I have attended the last 7 years so please don't lecture me on NAB. I was speaking to the post production world, particularly Video/Film and Apple's involvement in that. I apologize that I forgot to mention audio. Apple is not involved with technologies such as radio and satellite and a lot of other things that are on display at NAB so that is irrelevant.
Furthermore, anyone who is involved in professional level editing, storage, audio has an Apple rep that they typically deal with directly. No need for the Apple store. Apple has people in a lot of different regions to deal with customers one on one for what their particular needs are. It is quite shortsighted on your part to think anyone who is serious about the pro apps would be turned off by Apple's consumer division. So tell me, what is Apple ignoring exactly that you need so desperately??? This also goes to your stupid argument claim, which is if you have needs as a pro user there are avenues to take to upgrade, demo, test, and purchase that are beyond the scope of the apple store. NAB is not the only place in which to explore these options.
You are quite skilled at jumping up and down and screaming about stuff that is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things...quite the "journalist" you are. I am no fanboy, but have worked on Macs, AVID's, Final Cuts, Softimage and the like for over 12 years. It annoys me when non industry people make assumptions that are totally incorrect. I was simply making the point that you were severly over reacting to this and if you are taking this so personally perhaps it would be better for you to move on since you are so angry. In LA, the majority of post production is done on Macs...whether it's FCP or AVID or Protools or After Effects or Photoshop, etc....that is a FACT whether you like it or not. I was only trying to point that out.
Those that fall back to name calling when they have nothing to back up their points are the "childish" ones and have no room telling anyone to grow up. Like I said before, just settle down already, this is not the end of the world.

[fluidedge]

i think everyone needs to take a chill pill.

just because apple has pulled out of NAB doesn't mean they won't be in LV at the same time - same goes for AVID, what's to say they won't be in a hotel round the corner displaying?

We don't know what has happened between Apple/Avid and the organizers of NAB, they might have had disagreements about position of booths or prices etc. Enough for them to say, fine we just won't be there. They may not be at NAB, but i'll wager they'll be there in LV somewhere. They're definitely going to be there at the FCP Super Meet - they're booked in for that one! Perhaps we'll see FCS there

[Tosser]

I am fully aware of what NAB is and is not, I have attended the last 7 years so please don't lecture me on NAB.
Funny, you seem to think you can lecture other on their choices and their considerations.

I was speaking to the post production world, particularly Video/Film and Apple's involvement in that. I apologize that I forgot to mention audio. Apple is not involved with technologies such as radio and satellite and a lot of other things that are on display at NAB so that is irrelevant.

Sorry to tell you this, but they sure are. Digital content creation (ENG both for radio and net – besides video/film and tv) , editing of it, and the delivery of such things are what NAB is all about.

I am frankly amazed you can say they have nothing to do with radio. I guess you think that radio is all about live talk-back radio and satellite music channels. But the world is bigger than that. Yo may want to look outside of the US.

Furthermore, anyone who is involved in professional level editing, storage, audio has an Apple rep that they typically deal with directly. No need for the Apple store.
How can so sorely miss my point? You called me arrogant for sitting on the fence, yet you completely fail to register and recognise that the reason I mention Apple Stores is because of the signals Apple seems to be sending: That there might not be that bloody rep anywhere, because their only focus will be consumer products. Hence my mentioning of the Apple Store.


Apple has people in a lot of different regions to deal with customers one on one for what their particular needs are. It is quite shortsighted on your part to think anyone who is serious about the pro apps would be turned off by Apple's consumer division.
See above. You have to trust the company which is providing you with solutions. Especially when things go wrong.

So tell me, what is Apple ignoring exactly that you need so desperately??? This also goes to your stupid argument claim, which is if you have needs as a pro user there are avenues to take to upgrade, demo, test, and purchase that are beyond the scope of the apple store.

See above, you're keeping on ignoring the initial argument, all in order to continue with your fanboyish strawman argument.

NAB is not the only place in which to explore these options.
I know. It's the signal they're sending. It's in the beginning of february, yet they have already said no to two of these things for pros.

You are quite skilled at jumping up and down and screaming about stuff that is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things...quite the "journalist" you are.
I am sorry to tell you, since you obviously haven't got a clue about this: These posts aren't written as me being a journalist. They're not even being written as blogs. When I am working, I am a journalist. Are you trying to say that my opinion and why I am on the fence should read as a journalistic article? If so, you must have lost your marbles somewhere along the way.


I am no fanboy, but have worked on Macs, AVID's, Final Cuts, Softimage and the like for over 12 years.

Funny you should say that. But the only people I have found to be so intent on closing their eyes to the argumentation at hand, all so they can say "don't let the door hit you on the way out", while at the same time showing an immense trust in Apple are the fanboys.

It annoys me when non industry people make assumptions that are totally incorrect. I was simply making the point that you were severly over reacting to this and if you are taking this so personally perhaps it would be better for you to move on since you are so angry.
See above.
Further, I am not taking this personally. I was giving the reasons why I was on the fence. Huge difference. But of course, you have yet again proven that when you think this is personal, while at the same time reacting like you do, telling me to get another job, while defending Apple ad nauseum, you are acting like the fanboy you claim not to be.

In LA, the majority of post production is done on Macs...whether it's FCP or AVID or Protools or After Effects or Photoshop, etc....that is a FACT whether you like it or not. I was only trying to point that out.

Weird, because that is far from what you "only" pointed out. Besides, pro broadcasting is a lot bigger than LA. Or perhaps you're trying to tell me Apple has the market cornered in broadcast? Get real, will you.

Those that fall back to name calling when they have nothing to back up their points are the "childish" ones and have no room telling anyone to grow up.

Yes, I know some people think that as that is an easy way to judge people. But when it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, I am sure as hell going to call it a duck and not "my feathered friend". In reality is an easy way (on the surface) to say that people are in wrong whenever they point to a specific behaviour.

Like I said before, just settle down already, this is not the end of the world.

Perhaps you should look at my posts again. You're the bloke that went all up in arms about me saying that I am not willing to invest more money in Apple as it is right now, because I am not sure Apple is the way to go.

[Tosser]

i think everyone needs to take a chill pill.

just because apple has pulled out of NAB doesn't mean they won't be in LV at the same time - same goes for AVID, what's to say they won't be in a hotel round the corner displaying?

We don't know what has happened between Apple/Avid and the organizers of NAB, they might have had disagreements about position of booths or prices etc. Enough for them to say, fine we just won't be there. They may not be at NAB, but i'll wager they'll be there in LV somewhere. They're definitely going to be there at the FCP Super Meet - they're booked in for that one! Perhaps we'll see FCS there

Yep, let's hope so.

[MikeTheC]

We'd heard rumors that Apple would be pulling out of NAB and that the reason was primarily motived by the high cost of exhibiting. [Emphasis added]
Motived? What kind of word is that?

In other news, Apple's got other, better ways to present itself than at NAB, IMHO.

[Michael Horton]

Historically Apple announces big things in FCS every 2 years not every year. Last year was a big thing year.

Apple may of pulled off the show floor but they still will be at the annual FCPUG SuperMeet to be held April 16 at the MGM Grand Hotel. The way I'm spinning this decision is if you really want to talk to the folks from the FCS team and I mean the ones that really matter; the ones that make decisions on your behalf, the ones that can really answer your questions, then you'll find them April 16 at the SuperMeet. They will be right up on stage and after that out in the hall. Try finding them on the show floor at their giant booth at a giant trade show like NAB. Yes, they are there, but just try and find them.

None of us know the exact reasons Apple pulled out but most of suspect its simply because this year the return on the several million dollar investment needed to show at NAB is just not worth it. Next year it might be worth it.

FCS Users are not being hurt or abandoned here, as only a tiny percentage of the (estimated 1,000,000) user-base go to NAB. We all can get as much troubleshooting info as we need on the internet. We can get training in just about every major city in the world. We can get installation and workflow solutions in every major city in the world.

This is just one year in many since Final Cut Pro launched, and in these recessionary times it's time for all companies to re-think their marketing strategies and take a more customer driven approach to achieve their ROI. Smaller customer based events like the SuperMeet are just one way to achieve that. Where else can you hang out with people smarter than you are, get problems solved, eat free food and get inspired to create, all in one room? Try that on a giant crowded show floor at a Giant trade show like NAB.

Apple pulling out is bad for NAB. Not so bad for its users.

Michael Horton
lafcpug
http://www.lafcpug.org

Co-producer of the FCPUG SuperMeet
http://www.lafcpug.org/nab_2008

[h'biki]

Because Tremor isn't ready yet.

Tremor? Wow. I haven't heard that name in a long, long time.

Shake is dead, its been dead since Apple bought it. Lack of real time functionality isn't what killed Shake, its Apple's lack of forward direction on the package. Terrible 3D space support, terrible EXR support, terrible timeline support, etc. etc. (and QMaster sucks balls - still does)

I really don't care what becomes of the Shake followup, I just don't have faith that Apple is interested in the high end compositing market. It may try to find some middle ground between Motion and Shake, but it won't affect the traditional Shake customers.

Nuke is the only compositing package with a future in high end compositing. (Flame Flint and Inferno's have their place in film work, but the only facility I know of that does serious VFX work on FFI is Hydraulics)

[skiesforme]

WOW !!
Seems like we have a Catfight / Dogfight here !!
Calm down guys !! :D

[fcpguy]

I am frankly amazed you can say they have nothing to do with radio. I guess you think that radio is all about live talk-back radio and satellite music channels. But the world is bigger than that. Yo may want to look outside of the US.

You clearly have an issue with reading and comprehension. My points have always been directed towards Apple's core demographic which is post production of film & video. If some of their pro apps are being adapted for use in radio that's great. However, FCP was never design or targeted at such an audience. Nor is any of their other pro apps aside from perhaps logic, which is still designed for video post production. In fact, one point I will concede to you that if radio is your thing, Apple's pro apps are probably not the way to go. If that's your thing then perhaps you might want to look elsewhere. If you are talking about podcasting and web video then you can pretty much make due with iLife or FCP express.


How can so sorely miss my point? You called me arrogant for sitting on the fence, yet you completely fail to register and recognise that the reason I mention Apple Stores is because of the signals Apple seems to be sending: That there might not be that bloody rep anywhere, because their only focus will be consumer products. Hence my mentioning of the Apple Store.

First off, I never called you arrogant...that was directed towards the original poster from which I quoted. Regardless, there has been no word whatsoever that the Apple reps are going to fall off the face of the earth. In fact, I just spoke with ours yesterday and he would back up everything I am saying. So would you say that my Apple rep is a blind "fanboy" as well?? I have no idea where you are getting this assumption from other then reading too far into things.

See above, you're keeping on ignoring the initial argument, all in order to continue with your fanboyish strawman argument.

Please stop with the fanboy crap when you won't even answer a direct question I asked you. And please tell me how anything I've said is a strawman argument, when the majority of what you have said, has been nothing but assumption and speculation based on nothing substantial.


I know. It's the signal they're sending. It's in the beginning of february, yet they have already said no to two of these things for pros.

I've already gone through this...they have NOTHING to show right now that is new.


I am sorry to tell you, since you obviously haven't got a clue about this: These posts aren't written as me being a journalist. They're not even being written as blogs. When I am working, I am a journalist. Are you trying to say that my opinion and why I am on the fence should read as a journalistic article? If so, you must have lost your marbles somewhere along the way.

No I am saying that you write like a pissed off 16 year old who just want to bitch for the sake of bitching while calling people names and adding very little in the way of substance to your arguments. All the while ignoring direct questions that further a healthier discussion. But hey two can play that game...



Further, I am not taking this personally. I was giving the reasons why I was on the fence. Huge difference. But of course, you have yet again proven that when you think this is personal, while at the same time reacting like you do, telling me to get another job, while defending Apple ad nauseum, you are acting like the fanboy you claim not to be.

I simply said, twice, if you are not happy with your current choices perhaps you should look for other options. I never said to get another job, I said good luck finding one in LA that is not mac based. I am not defending Apple, but rather Apple's decision not to go to NAB this year...big difference. But apparently, your reading skills have failed you again. Or perhaps you have nothing else to say so once again you fall back on the "fanboy" name calling.


Weird, because that is far from what you "only" pointed out. Besides, pro broadcasting is a lot bigger than LA. Or perhaps you're trying to tell me Apple has the market cornered in broadcast?

See above about reading and comprehension skills.



Yes, I know some people think that as that is an easy way to judge people. But when it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, I am sure as hell going to call it a duck and not "my feathered friend". In reality is an easy way (on the surface) to say that people are in wrong whenever they point to a specific behaviour.

You can call it whatever you want.....You call it a duck, I call it a goose



Perhaps you should look at my posts again. You're the bloke that went all up in arms about me saying that I am not willing to invest more money in Apple as it is right now, because I am not sure Apple is the way to go.

Yeah, I was up in arms...wow you are so very perceptive..hahahaha
I would love to continue this little pissing match, but it's friday and I have better things to do with my time.
That's fine if you want to pass me off as a so called "fanboy" who is blindly defending apple no matter what. That is your prerogative. I am telling you what I know based on my experience and connections with Apple and others in the industry. If that's not good enough for you then that's your problem not mine.
What does annoy me about people like you though is that anyone who defends or tries to explain apple is a "fanboy" who should not be taken seriously. Give you a break, no, give me a break. Next time I suggest you try having a debate with someone with out all the unnecessary labels and assumptions you have made today. I apologize for not being in tune with what is going on all over the world, but I do know what happens in the entertainment capital of the world. Next time the subject comes up about Apple's pro apps, I'll be sure to not post anything. Heaven forbid, I add my 2 cents about the industry I work in and know for fear someone like you may call me a bad name like "fanboy". Have a good one, bloke :p

[fluidedge]

Will you two shut up? No one cares - take it into a private chat room, or the school yard.

Historically Apple announces big things in FCS every 2 years not every year. Last year was a big thing year.

Apple may of pulled off the show floor but they still will be at the annual FCPUG SuperMeet to be held April 16 at the MGM Grand Hotel. The way I'm spinning this decision is if you really want to talk to the folks from the FCS team and I mean the ones that really matter; the ones that make decisions on your behalf, the ones that can really answer your questions, then you'll find them April 16 at the SuperMeet. They will be right up on stage and after that out in the hall. Try finding them on the show floor at their giant booth at a giant trade show like NAB. Yes, they are there, but just try and find them.

None of us know the exact reasons Apple pulled out but most of suspect its simply because this year the return on the several million dollar investment needed to show at NAB is just not worth it. Next year it might be worth it.

FCS Users are not being hurt or abandoned here, as only a tiny percentage of the (estimated 1,000,000) user-base go to NAB. We all can get as much troubleshooting info as we need on the internet. We can get training in just about every major city in the world. We can get installation and workflow solutions in every major city in the world.

This is just one year in many since Final Cut Pro launched, and in these recessionary times it's time for all companies to re-think their marketing strategies and take a more customer driven approach to achieve their ROI. Smaller customer based events like the SuperMeet are just one way to achieve that. Where else can you hang out with people smarter than you are, get problems solved, eat free food and get inspired to create, all in one room? Try that on a giant crowded show floor at a Giant trade show like NAB.

Apple pulling out is bad for NAB. Not so bad for its users.

Michael Horton
lafcpug
http://www.lafcpug.org

Co-producer of the FCPUG SuperMeet
http://www.lafcpug.org/nab_2008


Now this is someone we should listen to! Nice to have your opinions Michael! Hey do you know if Larry Jordan is doing anything at the supermeet? I always like the way he talks about Final Cut

[Michael Horton]

Larry will be at the SuperMeet. In what capacity we don't know yet. Agenda will be set sometime in March.

Larry hosted the Macworld SuperMeet for us.

[SimonMW]

No show at NAB just means they don't have any new products for broadcasting/video/film market.

No it doesn't. It means that NAB is too expensive to exhibit at for little return on that investment. Big shows like NAB are going the way of the dinosaur, and more and more companies are pulling out from them.

Apple can handle their releases better at their own conferences and through the media. They don't need a big stand at a big show. Panasonic are going through the same thinking too at the moment and I wouldn't be surprised to see them pull out from NAB in coming years too.

[Tosser]

You clearly have an issue with reading and comprehension. My points have always been directed towards Apple's core demographic which is post production of film & video.

I see, and that's why you claimed (although a bit withdrawn now), that that was what NAB was _only_ about as well. Splendidly.

If some of their pro apps are being adapted for use in radio that's great. However, FCP was never design or targeted at such an audience. Nor is any of their other pro apps aside from perhaps logic, which is still designed for video post production. In fact, one point I will concede to you that if radio is your thing, Apple's pro apps are probably not the way to go.

Hence my use of Deck and Peak as well as protools and Dalet etc. It still doesn't change that it appears Apple is leaving th field of pro audio. Even with films and tv you do audio, you know. I know,I know, when asking films and tv-folks (real) audio is usually the one thing that isn't given any second thought – it's all about getting "nice" pictures and "sweet" effects.

If that's your thing then perhaps you might want to look elsewhere. If you are talking about podcasting and web video then you can pretty much make due with iLife or FCP express.

You seriously think that I was talking about podcasting and webvideo?




First off, I never called you arrogant...that was directed towards the original poster from which I quoted.

Really, now what do you call this:

I find posts like this and the guy who said I am going to switch platforms very annoying and arrogant because it shows a true lack of understanding about [etc.]!

Anyway:

Regardless, there has been no word whatsoever that the Apple reps are going to fall off the face of the earth. In fact, I just spoke with ours yesterday and he would back up everything I am saying.
Frankly, have you tried the "not-test" on that? What rep would say "We are not going to support you in the future"? Perhaps you should try that test a bit more often before taking a rep's word as gospel.

So would you say that my Apple rep is a blind "fanboy" as well??

Nope, I'd call him loyal to Apple. So far. And I frankly doubt he will back you up on _everything, seeing as you have said quite a lot not necessarily connected to Apple. The rep. can only back you up on things pertaining to his role as rep for Apple, not "everything" as you state.

I have no idea where you are getting this assumption from other then reading too far into things.
Funny, this. You're the one going off, because I'm saying I'm on the fence. You're the one that cannot even remember calling me arrogant (as I have just quoted above), and basically saying that if I have nothing good to say and trust Apple I should leave. Yet at the same time you're pissed that I voice my opinion on the matter, claiming that NAB is Film/TV/Video only (and inferring audio and radio is not part of NAB).



Please stop with the fanboy crap when you won't even answer a direct question I asked you. And please tell me how anything I've said is a strawman argument, when the majority of what you have said, has been nothing but assumption and speculation based on nothing substantial.
I do not answer "direct questions" when those direct questions is clearly part of a strawman argument. So stop with rhetorics and I might answer. However, you have made assumptions upon assumptions, yet you claim I am the one. That's brilliant. By choosing to accuse others of the very same you yourself are guilty of, you apparently think that you somehow get a free pass.




I've already gone through this...they have NOTHING to show right now that is new.
Hmm, yes. You have stated your opinion on the matter, and made assumptions, trying to convince me and others that it's fine that they have nothing to show, that it's fine they by the 8th of february have cancelled two pro shows. You don't think that companies only go there if they have something "new", do you?




No I am saying that you write like a pissed off 16 year old who just want to bitch for the sake of bitching while calling people names and adding very little in the way of substance to your arguments.
Really? How many times should I remind you that it was you who took offence that someone was actually voicing his doubts as to whether he should stay loyal to Apple?


All the while ignoring direct questions that further a healthier discussion. But hey two can play that game...

- and your attempts as strawmen continue. See above.





I simply said, twice, if you are not happy with your current choices perhaps you should look for other options.

Did you, now? Look at the other post I already quoted. There's a difference in the tone of voice you're using now and how it resonated over the world wide web.

I never said to get another job, I said good luck finding one in LA that is not mac based.

Haha, no you didn't. You didn't even mention LA to begin with. And even if you _had_ been mentioning it, how ridiculous is it to assume that everyone working in "the industry" is working in LA? However, you didn't mention LA.

I am not defending Apple, but rather Apple's decision not to go to NAB this year...big difference.
You have a funny way of showing that. Especially since you were reacting to me sitting on the fence, and "no Apple at NAB" wasn't the one and only reason for me to reconsider my options.

But apparently, your reading skills have failed you again.

There it is again: Accusing the other first, in an attempt not to be shown doing the same. The thing is, you haven't read my posts properly. Hell, you can't even remember what you have written yourself as I have shown, so that's hardly a surprise.

Or perhaps you have nothing else to say so once again you fall back on the "fanboy" name calling.
Going for the "victim role" here, are we? Saying to people that they should get out the door and ending with "good luck on finding another job", or constantly accusing people of having no knowledge, not knowing what NAB is "really about", and that they know nothing, unless they work in your niche in LA may not be name calling, but it sure as hell is arrogant and it shows an uncanning tendency to be besserwissen.

See above about reading and comprehension skills.
You may need to reread your own posts. Beginning from the one calling me arrogant.


You can call it whatever you want.....You call it a duck, I call it a goose
Nope, you're asking me to call the duck a goose, because your knee-jerk reaction is that a duck should never be called a duck, because that is by definition (in your book) insulting.






Yeah, I was up in arms...wow you are so very perceptive..hahahaha
You're really beginning to show your true colours. I urge you to read the other post I quoted in here. That started it all. after that you have continued to ignore what I have said – to such a degree that by now you're acting as if I am on the fence merely because they don't show at NAB. Remember that strawman argumentation I accused you of before?

I would love to continue this little pissing match, but it's friday and I have better things to do with my time.
Don't we all, don't we all? Well, at this time at night I don't here in Denmark.

That's fine if you want to pass me off as a so called "fanboy" who is blindly defending apple no matter what. That is your prerogative. I am telling you what I know based on my experience and connections with Apple and others in the industry.

No, you're giving me your opinion while claiming your opinion is the only right one, asking me to trust in Apple blindly, and if I don't want to, you're telling me to find another job. You are telling me this, claiming it is based in knowledge and your connections, yet fail utterly to understand that the world is bigger place with loads more niches than the one you're working in, and in that geographical region you happen to be at.

If that's not good enough for you then that's your problem not mine.
Yes, of course it's my problem, that I don't take your word and opinion as gospel. Especially since we aren't in the same niche, doing the exaclt same thing in the exact same city. Yes, I certainly have big problem on my hands …


What does annoy me about people like you though is that anyone who defends or tries to explain apple is a "fanboy" who should not be taken seriously.

I never said such a thing. It is the way you're telling everyone that does not agree with you to buzz off. Telling them they don't know anything because they don't work in the exact same niche as you. You even use strawmen to infer that I am basing my "fence sitting" on the absense at NAB alone. Also you take an Apple rep's word as gospel, and try to convince me I should too. That is indeed fanboyism.

Give you a break, no, give me a break. Next time I suggest you try having a debate with someone with out all the unnecessary labels and assumptions you have made today. I apologize for not being in tune with what is going on all over the world, but I do know what happens in the entertainment capital of the world.

You forgot: Within your own niche.

Next time the subject comes up about Apple's pro apps, I'll be sure to not post anything. Heaven forbid, I add my 2 cents about the industry I work in and know for fear someone like you may call me a bad name like "fanboy". Have a good one, bloke :p

You didn't just add your two cents. No, in effect, you asked anyone that doesn't agree with you to find another job.

[atomoboy]

That is an absurd cool aid drinking statement. On the high end of the professional market; broadcast, high end commercial post, and film if you surveyed every facility in the professional industry to determine marketshare....I can assure you the lionshare does not not belong to FCPro.

I like FCPro, it has created mass interest and the competition has pushed the entire industry to keep innovating..................... but it has not killed anything.

I own a post facility doing national, regional and local work. There is no way in hell I would buy a seat of any AVID product because I can buy a copy of FCP and charge the same hourly fee. AVID continues to have better database integration and I'd say a better tool set but for raw cutting, I'll take FCP any day. I can capture at the office and edit at the house. I've done national commercials in my bedroom on a PowerBook. Not possible with most AVID systems. I have not onlined a single spot in over 5 years that was offlined on AVID. Not one. That includes national spots.

I in no way implied that FCP was the end all post production product. I do however stand by my statement that FCP has redefined the industry. Every producer and agency we work with has at least one seat of FCP (usually bootlegged). It's cheap, easy to learn and is fully compatible via OMF with Flame, Smoke and other high-end systems. (Which I drive every day) Do we do motion graphics or compositing in FCP? No way. But you wouldn't do that in Media Composer either. Why do you think that Autodesk is pumping increased OMF compatibility into their systems level products? It's because FCP is the swiss army knife of post.

AVID has been gutted by Apple and rightfully so. AVID used to charge around $15,000 for 5 gig drives that were "certified" to edit with. Give me a break. Media Composer used to be around $125,000 and Apple sells a very similar product for $1,000. That my friends is redefining an industry. AVIDs only holdouts are with legacy users, people who need robust multi-user editing and feature editors who need the stronger keycode support.

For all those reasons, I respectfully disagree and stand by my previous post.

[atomoboy]

yeh i appreciate ultra high end wouldn't use AE (i edited my post!) - I thought Autodesk Flame was the one a lot used

It depends. Many of the high end design shops doing ID pkgs, show opens and promos have embraced AE. It's cheap and easy and well suited for design driven jobs. Flame has a great foothold in spot production. It is a very interactive program for working with huge numbers of layers in realtime. I can't speak on feature production but from what I read, it's a real mix of products.

In the end, it's what the artist is comfortable with and what the shop can afford. I own Flame running on Linux and use it daily. I also own AE running on a Mac and have an incredible artist who does great stuff with it. We each gravitated towards the systems that matched our working styles.

Outside of forums like this, the end concern is the quality of the creative output not the brand plate on the box.

[BenRoethig]

Well at least one guy(blogger) claims its a done deal. FCP etc is sold according to some..... I'll take my grain of salt now

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/fcapria/story/apple_avid_and_nab/

"Word on the street is that Apple has been shopping ProApps around since late last summer, and a deal was close last fall. Now such rumors have reached a fevered pitch, with ProApps apparently sold with all but the final announcement to be made. Potential buyers include Thompson, which has been on an acquisition spree of late, and would love to add an industrial strength NLE to its newsroom offerings.
No one will speak on the record for attribution. Until then anything can happen, but sources say morale in the ProApps group is low. Key members of the team have been moved to consumer-focused products like iMovie. Others have begun preparing for life after Apple.
If this is the case, Apple has little reason to throw a party for ProApps, and lopping a few million from the expense column makes the unit a lot more attractive to a buyer."

I hope to God this isn't true. Content creation has been the Mac's bread and butter. If the Mac has gotten to a point where the platform only exists to challenge Steve Jobs and not to serve the users, then we have a problem.

[wyldelee]

I own a post facility doing national, regional and local work. There is no way in hell I would buy a seat of any AVID product because I can buy a copy of FCP and charge the same hourly fee. AVID continues to have better database integration and I'd say a better tool set but for raw cutting, I'll take FCP any day. I can capture at the office and edit at the house. I've done national commercials in my bedroom on a PowerBook. Not possible with most AVID systems. I have not onlined a single spot in over 5 years that was offlined on AVID. Not one. That includes national spots.

I in no way implied that FCP was the end all post production product. I do however stand by my statement that FCP has redefined the industry. Every producer and agency we work with has at least one seat of FCP (usually bootlegged). It's cheap, easy to learn and is fully compatible via OMF with Flame, Smoke and other high-end systems. (Which I drive every day) Do we do motion graphics or compositing in FCP? No way. But you wouldn't do that in Media Composer either. Why do you think that Autodesk is pumping increased OMF compatibility into their systems level products? It's because FCP is the swiss army knife of post.

AVID has been gutted by Apple and rightfully so. AVID used to charge around $15,000 for 5 gig drives that were "certified" to edit with. Give me a break. Media Composer used to be around $125,000 and Apple sells a very similar product for $1,000. That my friends is redefining an industry. AVIDs only holdouts are with legacy users, people who need robust multi-user editing and feature editors who need the stronger keycode support.

For all those reasons, I respectfully disagree and stand by my previous post.

Maybe you can charge the same prices in Alabama but you definitely cannot charge the same price for an FCP suite as an avid suite in major markets. And the rates for the editors are much lower.
I do not consider redefining the pricepoints as the same thing as redefining the industry.

It sounds like you found your tool of choice,but that doesn't mean it is the editorial marketshare leader in the Pro industry.If you need multi seat collaboration,FCP is a poor option, at least for now... Avid was selling those expensive drives when drives cost an awful lot of money (unreasonable comparison to todays prices).

I too,will stick with what I said"Apple is a hardware company that is primarily focused on consumer products. They sell software in order to sell more apple hardware".

[fluidedge]

this is the problem with geek forums like this - no one is prepared to admit they're wrong on any point no matter how small. You persist in calling Apple a hardware company even though the CEO/Chairman of that company has on numerous occasions contradicted you!?

As for FCP revolusionising the industry - why do you have to argue that one? I'm prepared to listen to a guy that runs a post house who thinks thats so.

As for the bitch fight that is happening on this thread between 'those two' above - another example of neither side giving an inch to the other. Whats the point of having a discussion on these things if no one is prepared to learn from people who might be more knowledgeable than them - i find it very interesting to hear the views of post production directors, SuperMeet organisers - all you can do is say they are wrong when they have not only way more experience then the rest of us, but a geniune insight into the state of the industry.

Can we all try to give a little ground to each other and maybe learn off each other, especially those who know what they are talking about?

[wyldelee]

this is the problem with geek forums like this - no one is prepared to admit they're wrong on any point no matter how small. You persist in calling Apple a hardware company even though the CEO/Chairman of that company has on numerous occasions contradicted you!?

As for FCP revolusionising the industry - why do you have to argue that one? I'm prepared to listen to a guy that runs a post house who thinks thats so.

As for the bitch fight that is happening on this thread between 'those two' above - another example of neither side giving an inch to the other. Whats the point of having a discussion on these things if no one is prepared to learn from people who might be more knowledgeable than them - i find it very interesting to hear the views of post production directors, SuperMeet organisers - all you can do is say they are wrong when they have not only way more experience then the rest of us, but a geniune insight into the state of the industry.

Can we all try to give a little ground to each other and maybe learn off each other, especially those who know what they are talking about?

I am more than willing to give ground. But telling me that because a CEO says so... makes it so, is really a bit naive. Making staments like they gutted or killed Avid is simply childish since they didn't gut or kill anyone. I was not the one using such cool aid drinking,flammable, and inciteful language.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I could care less about which version of a computer OS is out, or even which platform, or name brand it is.
I care about the technology moving ahead in a stable and predictable manner so business plans can be brought to fruition and the industry has the tools it needs.

I like Apple products. I truly believe they were the only company who would have made a good editorial product, FCP, so inexpensively that it became available to the masses---who else would have had that same level of motivation (selling more computers).......but none of this makes FCP the tool favored by industry professionals.

Also, you are making assumptions about experience. I have been in the the industry for 2 1/2 decades, gone to 24 NAB's and work with owners/managers of hundreds of post houses, as well as every major broadcaster in the United States. I would guess that we are one of the largest owners of systems (hundreds) of both FCP and Avid in the country. I really didn't think I needed to run my resume in order to offer an opinion.

In reality, the cpu (or platform) is really the tire on the car..... and not the point at all. The industry buys tools because they are useful and cost effective. They buy into a manufacturer roadmap or vision because it works with their future plans, it is useful, cost effective, and predictable. The industry's move from point products or islands to a more collaborative model is a good one.

As I said before, the reason both Avid and Apple pulled out had everything to do with the NAB organization trying to extort insane amounts of money from them ---not enough bang for the amount of bucks they were demanding. It would have been a poor business decision for either company. Just because you have money does not mean you should piss it away. In the end NAB hurt themselves more than Apple, Avid
or the customers.

I will continue to stand by what I said earlier "Apple is a hardware company, that is primarily consumer oriented. It sells software at very inexpensive prices in order to sell more Apple hardware". If they were a software company they would be platform agnostic. That doesn't mean I don't like them :).

[Scottgfx]

Making staments like they gutted or killed Avid is simply childish since they didn't gut or kill anyone. I was not the one using such cool aid drinking,flammable, and inciteful language.

Avid made a good product in the Media Composer. It's the first NLE I used after years of editing in a linear-tape environment. I chose it over what were then top products like Media100 and Immix. Even in 1996, there was great amount of talk about the "arrogance" of Avid's management, and how they weren't listening to their customers. Soon after that, according to my sources, Avid was prepared to completely drop the Mac platform. Apple hadn't bought NeXT yet and was still working on their new next generation operating system. Avid told them that they wouldn't develop for it. I never heard the technical reasons. This may have been the start of Apple's effort to get into NLE.

Fast forward many years and you have a dying Avid and a strong Apple. A polar opposite of the situation 10 years ago.

I hear things from friends in the post production industry. One surprising thing from last year was that the head of post production of a major network was saying that they were looking at anything *but* Avid. I know where I work, there is a very strong anti-Avid sentiment, and it doesn't come from me.

Now about the rumors of Apple shopping around the Pro Apps: There is a huge amount of competition and these rumors always seem to get started just before a big show. Two years ago at NAB, people in Autodesk's booth were telling people about Apple's "Final Cut Extreme", but also about an agreement between the two not to cross each other's turf. Does FCE exist? Who knows.

I see in the production switcher marketplace, a similar kind of story. For years now there have been rumors about Grass Valley stopping development in California and just selling the German developed "Philips" switchers. For the third straight year, I'm hearing the same thing. Grass Valley's Kalypso debuted in 1999. It's due for replacement as these things go in large multi-year cycles. Is the Grass Valley name going to be replaced with Thomson? Will the new "big-iron" switcher be a "Diamond Digital"?

My point is that the rumor-mill, while interesting, can be just the competition spreading mis-information. You are talking about sales people that have multi-million dollar contracts at stake. It has a different feel than the normal Apple product rumors. It could be Avid, Sony or Thomson making up things to make people uneasy about buying editing systems from Apple. (Customer's like a major news network that would buy hundreds of seats of FCS.) Perhaps there's a bit of truth to it or a self-fulfilling prophecy. Autodesk abandoned their low-end edit* product in 2001. They may want to buy FCP. We'll see in a few months. :)

[wyldelee]

Avid made a good product in the Media Composer. It's the first NLE I used after years of editing in a linear-tape environment. I chose it over what were then top products like Media100 and Immix. Even in 1996, there was great amount of talk about the "arrogance" of Avid's management, and how they weren't listening to their customers. Soon after that, according to my sources, Avid was prepared to completely drop the Mac platform. Apple hadn't bought NeXT yet and was still working on their new next generation operating system. Avid told them that they wouldn't develop for it. I never heard the technical reasons. This may have been the start of Apple's effort to get into NLE.
:)

Believe me it wasn't a choice it was a necessity. The reason that Avid started the move to develop for the windows platform was Apple's decision to make teensy weensy little computers that had tiny power supplies and did not have enough slots for the Avid boardsets (this was despite repeated begging for them to continue putting out an industrial box) ??? Avid had to scramble to come up with an expansion chassis with a good power supply to put the boards in which then connected to the mac via a cable. Really unhappy situation but there was nothing else to be done.

Since then Avid has maintained platform agnosticism and tried to keep parity---meaning the app is the same on either platform, your choice.

I lived through a lot of good and bad with both these companies. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction.Thank god the technology has come far enough for all these apps to be software rather than hardware reliant. The days of expensive hardware upgrades are gone and so is most of the resentment.

They both make good products and we own plenty of both. I do not know of a single major broadcaster that is using multi seat FCPro as their primary editorial platform although I have been involved in many small clusters being used for specific projects.

[Scottgfx]

...Avid had to scramble to come up with an expansion chassis with a good power supply to put the boards in which then connected to the mac via a cable. Really unhappy situation but there was nothing else to be done...

Ah, yes, the AMP Chassis. It worked pretty well for me except that I kept having to re-seat the SCSI card. (The machine wasn't in a properly cooled environment.) Accom later did something similar with the Affinity. That large "Media Processor" box is simply a PCI expansion chassis.

...Since then Avid has maintained platform agnosticism and tried to keep parity---meaning the app is the same on either platform, your choice...

At NAB `99, I saw Avid's booth with several Windows based Media Composers and ONE Mac based system. I saw many people standing around the Mac system and almost no one around the PCs. There was a strong hue and cry from the users not to drop Mac support, as I think it was floated as an idea.

Apple was at that NAB, but their booth looked more like an Apple Store showroom. ProApps weren't yet where they are today. :)

[atomoboy]

Maybe you can charge the same prices in Alabama but you definitely cannot charge the same price for an FCP suite as an avid suite in major markets. And the rates for the editors are much lower.
I do not consider redefining the pricepoints as the same thing as redefining the industry.

It sounds like you found your tool of choice,but that doesn't mean it is the editorial marketshare leader in the Pro industry.If you need multi seat collaboration,FCP is a poor option, at least for now... Avid was selling those expensive drives when drives cost an awful lot of money (unreasonable comparison to todays prices).

I too,will stick with what I said"Apple is a hardware company that is primarily focused on consumer products. They sell software in order to sell more apple hardware".

Hear what I'm saying. On the pro side, we focus on creative output of the artist and will buy the tools best for the job. It's a complicated equation but central to it is economics. I never questioned Apple's position as a hardware company. Holy crap, why do you think FCP isn't dongled or tied to MAC addresses? My guess is they really don't care too much if a million bootleged copies are out there since everyone stealing the software has to pony up significant cash for the hardware to run it. Pretty smart thinking to me.

Media Composer is largely a non factor because of FCP much the same way that Henry died a miserable death because of Flame. Production and post are littered with great products who were killed by better and cheaper products. Here in town is a shop that bought a high end DVD authoring system about eight or so years back. They dropped about $25k on it. Six months later DVD studio pro came out. For a mere fraction of the investment, everyone in town was in the DVD business. In that instance we can safely say that DVD SP redefined DVD authoring and gutted the competitors. Yes, the high end authoring products survived and continue to exist as a niche industry but the DVD business was totally changed. Same with MC and FCP or service bureaus and type setting machines prior to the introduction of post script fonts and Quark. It's not an Apple fan thing it's just reality. With the introduction of FCP, two facilities opened up in my town alone centered around the software. No longer did calling yourself an edit house require a half million up investment. A few thousand bucks and talent put you in business. It rippled throughout the industry. One or two men shops became the norm. Geese man, look at the list of industry powerhouses that are now gone. We're talking top of the heap production and post houses that couldn't survive with the paradigm shift. Pick up a copy of Post Magazine and show me one new shop opening centered around AVID Media Composer or DS and I'll show you twenty that list FCP and After Effects. That is redefining an industry. You are spot on with the statement about AVIDs strength in multi-seat environments. You'll recall that I mentioned that earlier. AVID was price gouging on drives, but so was Discreet and Quantel and Grass Valley, etc. The drive price I mentioned was about 4 times the going rate at that time. Several years back, I dropped over 80k for about 10k in drives from Discreet for my previous Flame because Discreet had microcode embedded on plain jane Baracuda drives that "blessed" them to work with their software. Guess what, AVID and now Autodesk dropped their drive tax and let you use any storage. Why? Because FCP and other products were open and put pressure on the industry to stop extorting shops with insanely high markups on hardware. That again is redefining an industry.

The assertion that cutters using FCP make less than those using MC is balderdash. Yeah, a DS artist will demand more salary than a FCP editor but that's an apples and oranges comparison. Salary is a function of experience, client following and total billings not really the software an artist uses.

I think it's incredibly cool that FCP is priced such that home enthusiasts can grab a copy to play with but powerful enough to do a national spot or even a feature length film. Who among us would have expected that 15 or 20 years ago? I guess I find it odd that giving props to the home team on a forum like this would raise the ire of anyone. Maybe somebody just needs a hug.

[hanahawk]

Regarding the comment Apple will not be missed, and the booth was not that big, did they go to the same show that I did? Crowds spilling out into the aisles, standing room only for the presentations? People literally sprinting as the doors opened to line up to register for the mini seminars? Did they not share the magical time as Walter Murch explained his decision process for editing? The Apple booth was huge! It was the reason I have been going to NAB. I must question whether I will spend the money this year. Avid was a ghost town in comparison. NAB moved the Apple booth so it would not clog the entryway. I am so disappointed they will not be there.

[Joseph Hutson]

Poor NAB guys. Without Apple and Avid I wonder who goes there.

Everyone who knows ANYTHING about the new Scarlet Cam coming out.

red.com

[billchase2]

I haven't read the 7 pages of this thread... but I do have to admit that I'm rather disappointed that Apple will not be there this year. This is the first year that I've been able to get the money around to fly out there for the show and I would have loved to see their booth.