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View Full Version : Returned my Air...Here's why




johnlvx
Feb 9, 2008, 09:04 PM
I returned my Air today and got a full refund (they felt it was no bueno too). Over the last two days, it began getting slower and slower, the fan would never quit and the heat was incredible. The battery also would only last about ninety minutes.

Personally, I think there is something in Leopard that needs to be patched. This started occuring after I installed Fusion and started using a windows XP VM Machine. I dont know if it is related to Fusion or not... I cannot prove it one way or the other since this was also the time I really started to use the Air heavily with multiple apps like Illustrator and Office at the same time.

I replaced it with a ThinkPad X61. I really had high hopes for the Air and Leopard. Unfortunately, I think Leopard could actually learn a few things from Vista about reliability and speed. Maybe 10.5.2 will change things. :(



hotsauce
Feb 9, 2008, 09:08 PM
Unfortunately, I think Leopard could actually learn a few things from Vista about reliability and speed. :(

You really mean that? You don't realize that just opened you up to a barrage of attack. I'd recommend you do some research on the internets and come back to edit your comment. Meanwhile, I'm gonna grab some popcorn and enjoy this.

toomuchmac
Feb 9, 2008, 09:25 PM
Seems like a planted post spreading FUD.

NC MacGuy
Feb 9, 2008, 09:25 PM
Good for you! Amazing it was working fine and you were happy until you put WinBLOWS on it.

I'm kind of sorry to see you not buying more Apple laptops since you return them and I buy them from the refurb store as evident by your MBP and now MBA displeasure.

Vista vs. Leopard? I could have understood if you were partial to XP but VISTA?? Total garbage.

Now move along and play with your new toy. Buh-Bye....

brad.c
Feb 9, 2008, 09:33 PM
I remember the bright red nipple-mouse on the Thinkpad back in the mid Nineties. It was surprisingly responsive to my touch, and easily controllable.

If only there was some similar input device these days.

Oh, wait. Found one.

instant hit
Feb 9, 2008, 09:35 PM
Personally, I think there is something in Leopard that needs to be patched. This started occuring after I installed Fusion and started using a windows XP VM Machine. I dont know if it is related to Fusion or not... I cannot prove it one way or the other since this was also the time I really started to use the Air heavily with multiple apps like Illustrator and Office at the same time.

I replaced it with a ThinkPad X61. I really had high hopes for the Air and Leopard. Unfortunately, I think Leopard could actually learn a few things from Vista about reliability and speed. Maybe 10.5.2 will change things. :(

i think you expected too much out of a product that was not meant to run fusion and osx at the same time -- and on battery power no less. also, adobe apps are notorious for eating up gobs of ram. it also seems to me that most work is being done in the virtualized environment -- did you expect it to run both osx and xp as fast as you had hoped while still giving you more than 2 hours?

now, i run multiple osx NATIVE applications. here's a run-down of what i'm running this very moment: itunes, word 2008, safari, mail, entourage 2008, adium, quicksilver, dashboard, finder, google earth. and you know what? i can net 3 hours at the minimum.

i dare you to install vmware on your x61 and run a virtualized os x(86) session while running office and illustrator at the same time in vmware. come back when you get more than 90 minutes of life.

i'd have to agree with toomuchmac here -- another FUD-related post.

/rant

harcosparky
Feb 9, 2008, 09:36 PM
I replaced it with a ThinkPad X61. I really had high hopes for the Air and Leopard. Unfortunately, I think Leopard could actually learn a few things from Vista about reliability and speed. Maybe 10.5.2 will change things. :(

Reliability in Vista? ROFLMAO

You're a comedian, right?

Do you know what the #1 Upgrade for a Windows VISTA computer is????

The #1 upgrade for a Windows Vista PC is installing Windows XP. ( yes it's true this is a very common upgrade )

I know a little bit about Windows!


Gary S.
MCP ID #1990266
MCP MCP+I MCSE since 2000


:rolleyes::D:p:rolleyes::D:p:D:D:D:D

ChaePod
Feb 9, 2008, 09:43 PM
lol this thread is making me laugh XD

jsw
Feb 9, 2008, 09:50 PM
Why is it that no one can mention an issue with an Apple product without being called a troll?

I see nothing that marks the OP as a troll. They bought a system that is advertised as Vista compatible, and they had problems, as many have had, with Leopard and with the MBA - running a Mac version of a VM and running Vista in that. I don't have an MBA, but my MBP is more troublesome in many ways since I went to Leopard. I too hope for 10.5.2 to bring some relief.

Why does that post mark them as a troll?

Mr. Mustard
Feb 9, 2008, 09:54 PM
I think Leopard could actually learn a few things from Vista about reliability and speed. Maybe 10.5.2 will change things. :([/QUOTE]

Are you in the right place? vistarumors.com?

rowath
Feb 9, 2008, 10:05 PM
I don't understand it when people return their macs to the store and then pickup PC's. There must've been a reason you chose apple in the first place. It seems to me that you would've been much better served with a MBP and not an air.

If this was your first Mac, then I think you really just picked the wrong machine for what you were hoping to do with it.

johnlvx
Feb 9, 2008, 10:07 PM
You really mean that? You don't realize that just opened you up to a barrage of attack. I'd recommend you do some research on the internets and come back to edit your comment. Meanwhile, I'm gonna grab some popcorn and enjoy this.

I think I may have to join you in that popcorn hotsauce. I am suprised here. I am by no means a mac zealot and by no means a windows zealot. Computers are tools... and now that mac's ARE PC's (X86 intel platform).. we can run all sort of neat OS's on all sorts of neat hardware. I am just trying to figure out why so many people wrap their personas up in a product. They are just machines... and in my case, the Air turned out to be a machine that didnt meet what I think was a very conservative expectation (running software). The machine was most likely defective and the Genius that helped in the return also thought so.

I also am amused that Windows XP is some kind of prodigal son now.

And to the guy who threw out his MCP no's... If I list my MCSD and MCPD:EAD no's, do my posts automatically trump yours?

NC MacGuy
Feb 9, 2008, 10:13 PM
I don't understand it when people return their macs to the store and then pickup PC's. There must've been a reason you chose apple in the first place. It seems to me that you would've been much better served with a MBP and not an air.

If this was your first Mac, then I think you really just picked the wrong machine for what you were hoping to do with it.

He's already bought, ripped on and returned a MBP too. Read previous posts.

johnlvx
Feb 9, 2008, 10:18 PM
He's already bought, ripped on and returned a MBP too. Read previous posts.


So, I buy a $2000 machine, the screen is bad... I am supposed to be happy about it anyway?

I buy another $2000 machine, which can barely even perform... and I am supposed to be happy about it anyway?

I am starting to think that maybe this IS a cult... What is wrong with you?

In my experience, quality control is miserable on these things... I am not just gonna roll over on it in some sort of weird dedication to the brand. It is BECAUSE of my like for the brand that I am going to demand excellence for that much money.

barijazz
Feb 9, 2008, 10:21 PM
Reliability in Vista? ROFLMAO

You're a comedian, right?

Do you know what the #1 Upgrade for a Windows VISTA computer is????

The #1 upgrade for a Windows Vista PC is installing Windows XP. ( yes it's true this is a very common upgrade )

I know a little bit about Windows!


Gary S.
MCP ID #1990266
MCP MCP+I MCSE since 2000


:rolleyes::D:p:rolleyes::D:p:D:D:D:D

I like this kid.

etorres
Feb 9, 2008, 10:27 PM
I dont think the OP meant to be a troll. He most likely simply expected too much from his laptop and decided it was the computer's fault that it didnt give him what he wanted. Running a virtualized OS (be it windows or Linux) on ANY laptop with Adobe apps and other programs open on battery power is a bit of a stretch.
Most likely he just didnt know any better and this being his first experience with a mac went back to his comfort zone in windows.
By the way I upgraded my windows vista running on VmWare to windows Xp.

aiongiant
Feb 9, 2008, 10:49 PM
So, I buy a $2000 machine, the screen is bad... I am supposed to be happy about it anyway?

I buy another $2000 machine, which can barely even perform... and I am supposed to be happy about it anyway?

I am starting to think that maybe this IS a cult... What is wrong with you?

In my experience, quality control is miserable on these things... I am not just gonna roll over on it in some sort of weird dedication to the brand. It is BECAUSE of my like for the brand that I am going to demand excellence for that much money.

what did you expect from a "MAC" forum
were all Apple ppl here.. of course were going to be defensive about it
espcially the part where vista is better than leopard

and i agree with other ppl here.. that you prob just expected too much from the macbook air.. it was never meant to run vista.. it's not a "pro" machine

Spritey
Feb 10, 2008, 12:02 AM
I replaced it with a ThinkPad X61. I really had high hopes for the Air and Leopard. Unfortunately, I think Leopard could actually learn a few things from Vista about reliability and speed. Maybe 10.5.2 will change things. :(

Eeeeh...

Calling from Vista right now, which is the biggest piece of crap the world has seen. The only reason I've been running Vista for a year is because I can't find that goddamn XP disc and don't want to spend money on a new copy. XP was like pure heaven compared to vista, ESPECIALLY with respect to speed and reliability.

My computer used to be fast for my use, but with Vista sucking up 40% of the RAM at all times, bye bye speed.

Edit: Forgot to mention I'm running Vista on a PC, not through bootcamp or anything

hulugu
Feb 10, 2008, 12:07 AM
Why is it that no one can mention an issue with an Apple product without being called a troll?

I see nothing that marks the OP as a troll. They bought a system that is advertised as Vista compatible, and they had problems, as many have had, with Leopard and with the MBA - running a Mac version of a VM and running Vista in that. I don't have an MBA, but my MBP is more troublesome in many ways since I went to Leopard. I too hope for 10.5.2 to bring some relief.

Why does that post mark them as a troll?

I don't think the post is a troll, but it does feel like astroturf. That said, I think the OP's problems are related to choosing the wrong machine for the job. Running numerous Adobe apps and VM Fusion will tax the machine's processor, this will create lots of heat, and thus the machine will run its fans.
This may be indicative of a problem, but currently, referring to the information above, it seems like the OP chose the wrong machine.

Personally, I love my MacBook Pro and Leopard has been a joy to use. I can't say enough good things about the combination.

watermelon
Feb 10, 2008, 12:30 AM
I think its pretty dumb that your criticizing it, when your trying to run two operating systems at once on an ULTRAPORTABLE. This isn't meant to be a speed machine! Maybe the reason its been slowing down is because you've been installing software. Its to be expected that a computer slows down as you add new stuff to it. No computer is ever going to be as fast as it was the day you bought it.

HLdan
Feb 10, 2008, 12:55 AM
I'm not going to even comment about the OP because I already know what he's about .:rolleyes: This post is to some of you including the moderator that think that it's okay for someone to come the Mac forum and put down the Mac OS and expect the forum members to be understanding.

Please if I went to a Windows forum and said, " I was going to buy a new PC but found Apple's Mac computers better and furthermore Vista could certainly take lessons from Mac OS X Leopard".
The response from the Windows forum would be sooooo cruel it would bring anyone to tears.
I would first get the usual ignorant response in regards to market share being small on Mac OS X, then I would get the ignorant response about limited software on Macs then I would get ,"You'll be back, Macs are retarded".
Someone comes to a Mac forum and tells us that he had a defective Mac, returned it and bought a Windows machine and then mentions that Leopard has problems and could take lessons from Windows Vista. So are we suppose to suck ass and be nice about it? There's really no reason for the OP's post, he's back to using Windows and no one was really helped here. :p

McGiord
Feb 10, 2008, 01:08 AM
What is your intention to post that you prefer the ibm instead of the macbook air?
Are you looking for some mac fans to cope with your bad experience?
So we write here that you did the right thing?

New products always will have issues, and after some good quick improvement cycles get better.

It's sad to have big expectations from a mba that wasn't designed to run like a pro machine.

Anyway I have been always satisfied with the quality of my :apple: products and haven't needed to repair them, I hope my experience remains the same for my future purchases.

ahaxton
Feb 10, 2008, 01:17 AM
I really would wait to return the MBA till atleast seeing the new leopard update.
I am convinced fan, battery, heat issues are all software related, especially after today's incident with my MBA. They are even ok to deal with right now if you play around a bit.

Consultant
Feb 10, 2008, 01:52 AM
VMWare for dummies:

- Virtualization requires high amount of RAM and high CPU usage.
- High CPU usage will slow down the rest of the system.
- High CPU usage will decrease battery life.
- High CPU usage will heat the computer.
- High heat will cause the fans to run.
- Happens even with MBP.

Lack of understanding of basic computing requirement is not a Leopard problem.

As the OP said "This started occuring after I installed Fusion and started using a windows XP VM Machine." Captain Obvious says DUH!!!


By the way:

Vista Slow and Dangerous
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2007/tc20070315_101834.htm

Vista named #1 biggest tech disappointment of 2007
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,140583-page,5-c,techindustrytrends/article.html

gary0922
Feb 10, 2008, 02:19 AM
There's a 3 week wait for an X61 so I doubt he's replaced the MBA as he says.

samh004
Feb 10, 2008, 02:31 AM
I'll bite.

Why is it that no one can mention an issue with an Apple product without being called a troll?

I see nothing that marks the OP as a troll. They bought a system that is advertised as Vista compatible, and they had problems, as many have had, with Leopard and with the MBA - running a Mac version of a VM and running Vista in that. I don't have an MBA, but my MBP is more troublesome in many ways since I went to Leopard. I too hope for 10.5.2 to bring some relief.

Why does that post mark them as a troll?

Good post, however I think if your going to buy a MBA your computing habits shouldn't include running a VM of Vista and opening some heavy duty apps (I count Office here as it's just awful).

The MBA really should be marketed to people that just need to do general computing (not virtualization) tasks when they go on business trips and what not. If you expect it to run other OS' on top of Leopard and have every item in your dock open at the same time, your not the ideal user.

Get a MB, a MBP even, but don't try and pretend this was your attempt at making a switch. You chose the wrong computer for your overly optimistic goals.

zippster
Feb 10, 2008, 04:47 AM
i have an x61 tablet, 120gb drive,3gb ram and vista and its purely as a work machine(as im not allowed a mac), but when i get home it stays rotting in the bottom of my bag.

as recent convert(home use) to mac i can tell you that all of my macs have been a breath of fresh air compared to any of M$ offerings(although xpsp3 is nice) and although im a MSC &MCSE(11 years)id take OSX anyday over windows.

hell i even run fusion with XP when i work from home ;)

each to there own! everyone is in titled to there own opinion but to come on a public mac forum and start trashtalking osx is asking for trouble!

Macs are like the 'Midus Touch' Everyone at work thats touches mine wants one and quite a few have gone out and bought them ;)

oh and OP piccy attached incase you think im trolling..

deniser
Feb 10, 2008, 05:41 AM
I bought an HP laptop for my son for college last year. It came with vista installed. I really find vista a very over inflated os. I went to install XP on it for him as they use XP in school. It installed fine but had numerous problems, wireless card and ethernet not working, even after downloading the drivers. It just would not run xp so I had to put vista back onto it. It was made for vista and not xp which was a huge shame.

drchipinski
Feb 10, 2008, 07:24 AM
I picked up an Air on Saturday morning...I went home and it had 3 stuck pixels, battery issues, as well as the fan issue as well.

I went back to the store, where they exchanged it for me, and the second one is also having fan/heat issues and the battery isn't much better than the first. I am getting tired of being a guinea pig for Apple....

This one will be going back as well.

Catch
Feb 10, 2008, 08:16 AM
I picked up an Air on Saturday morning...I went home and it had 3 stuck pixels, battery issues, as well as the fan issue as well.

I went back to the store, where they exchanged it for me, and the second one is also having fan/heat issues and the battery isn't much better than the first. I am getting tired of being a guinea pig for Apple....

This one will be going back as well.

Yeah thats a shame. I am hoping mine will not have any issues. Buying rev 1 machines is always a bit of a gamble even though I agree it should not be that way.

C

Techguy172
Feb 10, 2008, 08:28 AM
The guy didn't like the computer now he's automatically a bad person, He likes vista so now he's a bad person My brother loves vista pick on him and he'll beat the hell out of you. some people like it others don't mac isn't that amazing it has quite a few problems it depends what your doing. I personally hate the Macbook Air My brother who likes vista even likes it He would buy it just to run vista and that would be ideal for him.

It all depends on what you like You guys are losers for saying he's a troll and spreading lies about someone you don't even know.

BongoBanger
Feb 10, 2008, 08:28 AM
Well if the OP is trolling then he certainly got what he wanted from some of the sillier fanboys on this site. Honestly people, you're not fish; you don't have to mindlessly bite at every worm.

As for the Air, yes there will be defective units, yes Leopard is far from perfect and, yes, Vista is a disappointment but so what? Leopard and Vista are still knd of V1.0 and both need a good bit of work. Leopard is better than Vista just now but we'll see what the SPs do for both - I remember XP being a horror when it came out and being very satisfied with it by the time they'd refined SP2.

As an aside, I love my Lenovo T60 because it's so hard wearing.

Clix Pix
Feb 10, 2008, 08:36 AM
Two and a half years ago when I bought my first Mac it was because I was tired of Windoze and all the hassles associated with it. The last thing I would ever do is to stick XP or Vista on an intel Mac, especially one with limited space on the HD! That's just asking for trouble.....

Cybergypsy
Feb 10, 2008, 08:41 AM
Good luck and goodbye, but I would have thrown it on Ebay and made more money......

devilot
Feb 10, 2008, 08:53 AM
... mac isn't that amazing it has quite a few problems it depends what your doing. Exactly. I don't quite understand folks who get 'holier than thou' about Apple hardware and let's face it, software, too. I've had quite a many hardware failure (repairs, replacements) and quite a few irritating software blips.

Do I like Apple's products? Yeah, well enough. I like them more than the typical Windows boxes or OS, and so I keep using them.

Do I think they're perfect or flawless? Hell no! But again, won't deter me from using what I like best (thus far).

Well if the OP is trolling then he certainly got what he wanted from some of the sillier fanboys on this site. Honestly people, you're not fish; you don't have to mindlessly bite at every worm. ;)

richard.mac
Feb 10, 2008, 08:54 AM
so wait lemme get this straight... you bought an MBA, thought it was too hot and the fans ran too loud and you didnt even think of troubleshooting or getting help here? except you just posted a message saying you returned it and your not happy with it?

id have to agree the machines arent perfect but you have to give them a little leeway. yes the machine could have been faulty but you should of at least checked it out.

my MBP has had a screen problem, original RAM replaced, 2 batteries replaced and it still runs perfect and im still using it 1 1/2 years later.

ahaxton
Feb 10, 2008, 09:03 AM
so wait lemme get this straight... you bought an MBA, thought it was too hot and the fans ran too loud and you didnt even think of troubleshooting or getting help here? except you just posted a message saying you returned it and your not happy with it?

id have to agree the machines arent perfect but you have to give them a little leeway. yes the machine could have been faulty but you should of at least checked it out.

my MBP has had a screen problem, original RAM replaced, 2 batteries replaced and it still runs perfect and im still using it 1 1/2 years later.


Plus I'm convinced we have the fan issue amongst a couple others on all our MBA's or the majority and it will be fixed via a software update. Especially after my second time yesterday.

NC MacGuy
Feb 10, 2008, 09:10 AM
Illustrator, Windows via fusion and Office all at once on the Air? You bought the wrong computer to begin with. Obviously you were misguided in its capabilities and your needs.

johnlvx
Feb 10, 2008, 09:33 AM
i have an x61 tablet, 120gb drive,3gb ram and vista and its purely as a work machine(as im not allowed a mac), but when i get home it stays rotting in the bottom of my bag.

as recent convert(home use) to mac i can tell you that all of my macs have been a breath of fresh air compared to any of M$ offerings(although xpsp3 is nice) and although im a MSC &MCSE(11 years)id take OSX anyday over windows.

hell i even run fusion with XP when i work from home ;)

each to there own! everyone is in titled to there own opinion but to come on a public mac forum and start trashtalking osx is asking for trouble!

Macs are like the 'Midus Touch' Everyone at work thats touches mine wants one and quite a few have gone out and bought them ;)

oh and OP piccy attached incase you think im trolling..


You ARE trolling... most of you here are... all under the auspices of accusing ME of trolling. I was never trash talking OSX, I simply stated my opinion about my current experience with Leopard and all of a sudden the OCD crazies come out and start losing sleep over it. Most of the "Trashtalking" I've done has been invented by subsequent posters and kept alive by posts like yours.

There are some interesting people on this forum to say the least.

I picked up an Air on Saturday morning...I went home and it had 3 stuck pixels, battery issues, as well as the fan issue as well.

I went back to the store, where they exchanged it for me, and the second one is also having fan/heat issues and the battery isn't much better than the first. I am getting tired of being a guinea pig for Apple....

This one will be going back as well.

Careful man, you're likey to get slaughtered for being honest and not supporting the notion that the Air is the messiah. LOL

There's a 3 week wait for an X61 so I doubt he's replaced the MBA as he says.

There ARE stores that keep these in stock Gary. Thanks for dishonest implication.:mad:

duffyanneal
Feb 10, 2008, 09:36 AM
I picked up an Air on Saturday morning...I went home and it had 3 stuck pixels, battery issues, as well as the fan issue as well.

I went back to the store, where they exchanged it for me, and the second one is also having fan/heat issues and the battery isn't much better than the first. I am getting tired of being a guinea pig for Apple....

This one will be going back as well.


I'm still trying to figure out what this "fan issue" is that people are talking about. Do you mean the fan is running? Like it is supposed to when it gets hot? Like any computer (that has a fan) is supposed to? When you first get any Mac (applies to Vista machines as well) it will run slower and the machine will heat up. Why? This is because Spotlight is indexing the drive. If you notice a little dot pulsating in the magnifying glass that means indexing is underway. On the MBA this may take 30 minutes or longer on the initial index. If you happen to be using the machine at the same time the indexing will take even longer. Indexing causes the CPU to heat up so the fan will run, and since the HDD/SSD is being accessed constantly the machine will appear to be lethargic. FYI, when all this is taking place the battery life will suck for obvious reasons.

cohibadad
Feb 10, 2008, 09:47 AM
I run Parallels with XP on my MBA. It runs very well although I only have it because of the IE only web interfaces I have to use for business.

drchipinski
Feb 10, 2008, 10:00 AM
I'm still trying to figure out what this "fan issue" is that people are talking about. Do you mean the fan is running? Like it is supposed to when it gets hot? Like any computer (that has a fan) is supposed to? When you first get any Mac (applies to Vista machines as well) it will run slower and the machine will heat up. Why? This is because Spotlight is indexing the drive. If you notice a little dot pulsating in the magnifying glass that means indexing is underway. On the MBA this may take 30 minutes or longer on the initial index. If you happen to be using the machine at the same time the indexing will take even longer. Indexing causes the CPU to heat up so the fan will run, and since the HDD/SSD is being accessed constantly the machine will appear to be lethargic. FYI, when all this is taking place the battery life will suck for obvious reasons.


It should not run hot for 6 hours straight...should it?

Is the Air a "cool" computer, yes. Does it have issues, yes. Am I willing to keep going to the Apple store (which by the way had 55+ Airs in stock on Saturday) to continue to "fix" this machine, NO.

Also, I charged mine last night for 9 hours and it only got to 58% capacity. I really do not want to wait in line at the Genuis Bar day after day...I do have a life....

I am glad so many of you are so patient with Apple. I am not. If it doesn't work, I move on. When I spend well over $3,000 on a computer, it should just work. Not work after an exchange, then a battery replacement, then a new hard drive, etc.

They are a computer company, not a way of life.

zippster
Feb 10, 2008, 10:00 AM
OOoooohhhhh think we have hit a nerve ;)


see yah! dont let the door hit you on the a$$ on the way out now!

duffyanneal
Feb 10, 2008, 10:10 AM
It should not run hot for 6 hours straight...should it?

Is the Air a "cool" computer, yes. Does it have issues, yes. Am I willing to keep going to the Apple store (which by the way had 55+ Airs in stock on Saturday) to continue to "fix" this machine, NO.

Also, I charged mine last night for 9 hours and it only got to 58% capacity. I really do not want to wait in line at the Genuis Bar day after day...I do have a life....

I am glad so many of you are so patient with Apple. I am not. If it doesn't work, I move on. When I spend well over $3,000 on a computer, it should just work. Not work after an exchange, then a battery replacement, then a new hard drive, etc.

They are a computer company, not a way of life.

Are you saying that it ran for 6 hours on the battery? :D

You should go buy a TZ. The battery does charge fairly quickly, but get ready to hear the fan ALL of the time regardless if you're doing anything. Enjoy Vista since retrograding back to XP is a severe pain in the ass with Sonys. Make sure to take advantage of Ready Boost with a SD or Express card. You'll need it even if you get an SSD. Oh I forgot the SD slot and Express card slot are too slow to be Ready Boost compliant (thank Sony for that one). Sorry. How do I know this? I actually own one.

Hansii
Feb 10, 2008, 10:17 AM
Is there anyone on this forum which isn't a biased mac fanboy?

People have diferent experiences with Vista and Leopard, for me Vista has been a lot faster and reliable than Leopard, but for other people it's the other way around. Both of them will hopefully give more consistent user experiences after their service packs

cedar
Feb 10, 2008, 10:26 AM
Why is it that no one can mention an issue with an Apple product without being called a troll?

I see nothing that marks the OP as a troll. They bought a system that is advertised as Vista compatible, and they had problems, as many have had, with Leopard and with the MBA - running a Mac version of a VM and running Vista in that. I don't have an MBA, but my MBP is more troublesome in many ways since I went to Leopard. I too hope for 10.5.2 to bring some relief.

Why does that post mark them as a troll?

LOL. He may not be a troll, but he is puzzling in his logic. I have a 4-month old HP laptop that runs Vista. I also has a Toshiba running XP. The Vista os is really, really bad and slow compared to the XP. And how somebody would expect Vista to run flawlessly with an Apple product is beyond me. I wouldn't wish that piece of crap on my worst enemy.

Techguy172
Feb 10, 2008, 10:27 AM
Is there anyone on this forum which isn't a biased mac fanboy?

People have diferent experiences with Vista and Leopard, for me Vista has been a lot faster and reliable than Leopard, but for other people it's the other way around. Both of them will hopefully give more consistent user experiences after their service packs

I am not biased to windows or mac but unfortunately there isn't too many that are like me.

duffyanneal
Feb 10, 2008, 10:35 AM
Is there anyone on this forum which isn't a biased mac fanboy?

People have diferent experiences with Vista and Leopard, for me Vista has been a lot faster and reliable than Leopard, but for other people it's the other way around. Both of them will hopefully give more consistent user experiences after their service packs

I'm sorry, but I actually use XP, Vista, and Mac OS every day. So I call it like it is. Vista sucks why do you think no large corporation has adopted it? It provides zero advantage over XP unless you want to take advantage of all the DX10 games like Crysis. Oh yeah, Crisis actually works better on DX9 on XP. UAC is laughable at best and all the broken apps are a blast to deal with. 1 year after introduction I still have problems getting a stable VPN connection on Vista. XP on the other hand is quite stable and useful.

As far as asking for an unbiased opinion. Did you happen to notice what this site is called? I'm sure if I ventured to MaximumPC and asked for an unbiased review of Vista vs Mac OS I'm quite sure everyone would line up to extoll the virtues of each OS. Actually, that isn't a good example since most there would probably speak their minds which is that Vista is a mess.

mashoutposse
Feb 10, 2008, 10:36 AM
It should not run hot for 6 hours straight...should it?

Sounds like you were using the computer while charging. Remember, the charger is 45W versus the MB's 65W and the MBP's 85W -- battery charging slows to a crawl when the computer is actively in use. This is a negative, for sure. A definite deal-breaker for some.

The battery circuitry is likely designed around the 45W adaptor, so swapping it with the MBP's likely won't make a difference. I will give it a try, however.

Also, I charged mine last night for 9 hours and it only got to 58% capacity.

Did you close the screen or otherwise put the computer to sleep?

Catch
Feb 10, 2008, 10:38 AM
People have diferent experiences with Vista and Leopard, for me Vista has been a lot faster and reliable than Leopard, but for other people it's the other way around. Both of them will hopefully give more consistent user experiences after their service packs

I think you will find a much more hardcore group of PC 'haters' of Vista out there than OSX users. It seems to me that there are allot of people out there that really dislike Vista. I never used it so can't say I like or dislike it myself. XP was very good though in my opinion.

Equally, there were allot of OS9 users that 'hated' OSX in the beginning... I guess all these things take time to evolve...

C

camarobh
Feb 10, 2008, 10:46 AM
Is there anyone on this forum which isn't a biased mac fanboy?

People have diferent experiences with Vista and Leopard, for me Vista has been a lot faster and reliable than Leopard, but for other people it's the other way around. Both of them will hopefully give more consistent user experiences after their service packs

The real point here is why post a message that says you don't like your MBA and are returning it to buy a Vista machine? I mean really, who cares? What are you trying to accomplish other than light up the flame wars? If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you did buy it, return it and move on. We don't need to hear about it. This forum should be used for sharing tips, troubleshooting issues, and exploring rumors.

Techguy172
Feb 10, 2008, 10:47 AM
I'm sorry, but I actually use XP, Vista, and Mac OS every day. So I call it like it is. Vista sucks why do you think no large corporation has adopted it? It provides zero advantage over XP unless you want to take advantage of all the DX10 games like Crysis. Oh yeah, Crisis actually works better on DX9 on XP. UAC is laughable at best and all the broken apps are a blast to deal with. 1 year after introduction I still have problems getting a stable VPN connection on Vista. XP on the other hand is quite stable and useful.

As far as asking for an unbiased opinion. Did you happen to notice what this site is called? I'm sure if I ventured to MaximumPC and asked for an unbiased review of Vista vs Mac OS I'm quite sure everyone would line up to extoll the virtues of each OS. Actually, that isn't a good example since most there would probably speak their minds which is that Vista is a mess.


What about better security new interface and better support for networks and Network attached storage as well as easier setup Those are advantages.

duffyanneal
Feb 10, 2008, 11:00 AM
What about better security new interface and better support for networks and Network attached storage as well as easier setup Those are advantages.


The new network features are in part what broke all existing VPN software. As I mentioned earlier I still have problems getting a stable VPN connection. At one point I had to reboot one of my Vista machines about 5-6 times a day. I gave up and went back to XP on that particular machine. As far as security is concerned the first thing I do after a clean install of Vista is disable UAC, Windows Defender, and the Security Control center. I guess I don't take advantage of those benefits. NOD32 seems to work fairly well along with whatever happens to be the flavor of the day for anti-spyware.

NC MacGuy
Feb 10, 2008, 11:31 AM
Maybe a fanboi here but,,,, I think Tiger is much more stable than Leopard and have had some Leopard issues. Honestly. Vista still sucks worse and I can live w. XP. I use Office over iWork, even though I don't dare touch Entourage.
My computers are much faster since switching from PPC to Intel.

I've had issues w. Apple products especially since going Intel but come on, they totally switched processors and had to re-write OS in what, two years? M$ has had plenty of time to dominate on the same platforms and hasn't kicked Apple's butt which they should have.

Fact is the two make the other better. Competition in this sense is good.

zippster
Feb 10, 2008, 11:31 AM
Is there anyone on this forum which isn't a biased mac fanboy?

People have diferent experiences with Vista and Leopard, for me Vista has been a lot faster and reliable than Leopard, but for other people it's the other way around. Both of them will hopefully give more consistent user experiences after their service packs

LMAO and you ask this on a MAC forum?:D

Krevnik
Feb 10, 2008, 11:40 AM
Good post, however I think if your going to buy a MBA your computing habits shouldn't include running a VM of Vista and opening some heavy duty apps (I count Office here as it's just awful).

I wouldn't virtualize Vista, but my XP VMWare install with Office and a couple other small apps (Microsoft Reader and ABBYY FineReader) seems to work just fine. For the most part it doesn't heat up and spin up the fans.

rickboy
Feb 10, 2008, 11:48 AM
Im a graphic designer s naturally i would by a machine that suits my needs. Mac Air is a great product, but it doesnt suit my needs. You installed Fusion and started using a windows XP VM Machine? On top a that you were using very demanding software like illustrator and office is not that intesnive, but if you run multiple apps at the same time, Im gonna feel sorry for your MBA. If you have any concept of what RAM is, Scratch disk space and how CPU demanding these apps are, why through all this and blame the MBA when it clearly was made for things like, checking out your facebook or showing a power point presentation to a staff of bored director members? Sure you can do small things in photoshop and illustrator, but damn dude, you made the poor Mac book Air cringe in pain.

And the comment you made about Leopard learning a few things from vista is just wrong. I use vista at work and its aggrivating and used XP long before it.

Im gonna buy a MBA off of ebay when the next one comes out, because its good if you go travelling and backpacking in Europe and you can keep in touch and surf the web through wi fi networks. i havent bought one cause of the price and to be moving around I dont trust a traditional hard drive. Im want the SSD version. Its less vulnerable to bumps and magnetic fields you might encounter at airports.Thing is at 3,000... Ill be stressed out carrying that around in places like spain were you got gypsies pickpocketing tourists or staying in a hostel were it might get stolen. Im hoping to get one on ebay when i see one for less than 1000. What Im trying to say in this paragraph is that the MBA is a good product but has a specific use and targetted at a different market.

Hansii
Feb 10, 2008, 11:52 AM
I'm sorry, but I actually use XP, Vista, and Mac OS every day. So I call it like it is. Vista sucks why do you think no large corporation has adopted it? It provides zero advantage over XP unless you want to take advantage of all the DX10 games like Crysis. Oh yeah, Crisis actually works better on DX9 on XP. UAC is laughable at best and all the broken apps are a blast to deal with. 1 year after introduction I still have problems getting a stable VPN connection on Vista. XP on the other hand is quite stable and useful.

As far as asking for an unbiased opinion. Did you happen to notice what this site is called? I'm sure if I ventured to MaximumPC and asked for an unbiased review of Vista vs Mac OS I'm quite sure everyone would line up to extoll the virtues of each OS. Actually, that isn't a good example since most there would probably speak their minds which is that Vista is a mess.
I could list tons of thing in Vista that makes it a lot better than XP, but let's not get off topic. Just because you have problems with bad network drivers doesn't mean Vista is bad, I agree that you shouldn't have any problems, but it's not like it isn't like this with any OS, some unlucky peopel are going to have problems, no software is perfect.

But I agree with what one other poster said, this thread is pretty useless

drchipinski
Feb 10, 2008, 11:52 AM
Are you saying that it ran for 6 hours on the battery? :D

You should go buy a TZ. The battery does charge fairly quickly, but get ready to hear the fan ALL of the time regardless if you're doing anything. Enjoy Vista since retrograding back to XP is a severe pain in the ass with Sonys. Make sure to take advantage of Ready Boost with a SD or Express card. You'll need it even if you get an SSD. Oh I forgot the SD slot and Express card slot are too slow to be Ready Boost compliant (thank Sony for that one). Sorry. How do I know this? I actually own one.

Plugged in...the fan doesn't seem to run when it is not plugged in which is strange.

drchipinski
Feb 10, 2008, 11:55 AM
I am not planning on buying a Wondows based computer. I will wait to see if Apple can resolve these issues before I purchase another one. Not worth my time or anguish until then.

diabolic
Feb 10, 2008, 12:06 PM
Plugged in...the fan doesn't seem to run when it is not plugged in which is strange.

I wonder if the battery gets the system hotter when plugged in.

Maybe the reason I haven't had any heat issues is that I have run on battery only so far. The only time my MBA is plugged in is for recharging. My fans have run at 6200RPM, but only for shorter periods.

McGiord
Feb 10, 2008, 12:06 PM
Is there anyone on this forum which isn't a biased mac fanboy?

People have diferent experiences with Vista and Leopard, for me Vista has been a lot faster and reliable than Leopard, but for other people it's the other way around. Both of them will hopefully give more consistent user experiences after their service packs

All our opinions (fanboys and nonfanboys) are based on our logical way of thinking and in our taste.

Is like talking about your favorite restaurant, some people like sea food, others love it, some hate it while other want to eat it but are allergic!
If you then start talking about sushi, even some people who like sea food don't even give it a try, while others can't live with their periodic fix.

In the Mac vs PC, OSX vs Windows and all its flavors we have a very peculiar mixture of different experiences with people who live in the past, other that try to keep up with the latest and greatest (who is right about this?), and some that made our minds already on what is what we like and we just keep enjoying our time with our beloved :apple: stuff.

Is up to you to decide what do you want to do, try to convert people?

What is the essence of this forum:
Have this this 2 new religions or sects with extremist struggling to dominate a mac forum ???
Or we want to discuss interesting topics about the macs, :apple: and the industry?

johnlvx
Feb 10, 2008, 12:13 PM
Guys, this thread has become completely pointless in terms of contributing to the community.

As the OP I wish I could close it.

Newer mac user (me), meet mac community (hello). And a handful of fanboys who are counting on Apple Computer Co. for their eternal salvation.

I have gotten a taste of the so called "Cult of Mac". and How!

devilot
Feb 10, 2008, 12:16 PM
As the OP I wish I could close it. I happen to be reading this thread, but for future purposes and in terms of any other posts that violate MacRumors' Forum Rules, please click on this icon: http://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/buttons/report.gif to report a post.

Thanks.