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kockgunner
Feb 10, 2008, 03:17 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else find the fact that you need to put the MacBook air on a hard surface or a cooling pad, silly? When I use an ultraportable, I don't want to carry another device around just to keep my laptop from overheating. Also, one of the reasons for a laptop is so that one can compute anywhere: sitting down, on a bed, or on a sofa. Now if I do that with the air, I'll be blocking the cooling vents, causing one of the cores to shut down to prevent the computer from overheating. Now I have a single core 1.67 ghz processor on my hands. Why do manufacturers design products, touting them as the smallest, thinnest or whatever when the products need external components to make them work in the first place? It's like an xbox 360. It's pretty small compared to the ps3 but you end up with an huge external power brick. I don't consider that to be an engineering feat. I mean, I could design a thinner laptop than the air except my laptop would have an external battery, docking station, and keyboard which defeats the purpose of the small laptop right? The extra inconvenience of carrying all these external devices and not being able to put the air on a pillow outweighs the lightness of the laptop. I don't really know if this post has a point, but what are your thoughts on this?



iTeen
Feb 10, 2008, 03:18 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else find the fact that you need to put the MacBook air on a hard surface or a cooling pad, silly? When I use an ultraportable, I don't want to carry another device around just to keep my laptop from overheating. Also, one of the reasons for a laptop is so that one can compute anywhere: sitting down, on a bed, or on a sofa. Now if I do that with the air, I'll be blocking the cooling vents, causing one of the cores to shut down to prevent the computer from overheating. Now I have a single core 1.67 ghz processor on my hands. Why do manufacturers design products, touting them as the smallest, thinnest or whatever when the products need external components to make them work in the first place? It's like an xbox 360. It's pretty small compared to the ps3 but you end up with an huge external power brick. I don't consider that to be an engineering feat. I mean, I could design a thinner laptop than the air except my laptop would have an external battery, docking station, and keyboard which defeats the purpose of the small laptop right? The extra inconvenience of carrying all these external devices and not being able to put the air on a pillow outweighs the lightness of the laptop. I don't really know if this post has a point, but what are your thoughts on this?
that is really stupid...are all Air's like this?????????

ahaxton
Feb 10, 2008, 03:20 PM
You don't need any cooling thing what not for your MBA. If you have overheating issues it's easily fixed with playing around with restarts and the power adapter, with of course a SMU reset.

Best tweak I have found: Shut down MBA, unplug adapter, do SMU reset, turn MBA back on.

gr8tfly
Feb 10, 2008, 03:26 PM
Even if you don't block the vents in the back, it will STILL get hot on a soft surface. The aluminum case is part of the cooling system, just as it is with the MBP, PB (Al, and Ti).

kockgunner
Feb 10, 2008, 03:34 PM
You don't need any cooling thing what not for your MBA. If you have overheating issues it's easily fixed with playing around with restarts and the power adapter, with of course a SMU reset.

Best tweak I have found: Shut down MBA, unplug adapter, do SMU reset, turn MBA back on.
The air's heat wasnt really the point of this post but thx

duffyanneal
Feb 10, 2008, 03:36 PM
The MBA doesn't require a device to lift it off a soft surface, but it would be a good idea and that applies to ANY notebook. Check in with the gamers and you'll see that a cooling pad is very important. It just helps to keep the machine as cool as possible so the internals stay cooler and the fan runs less.

It's like air conditioning for your car (especially in the Southwest US). It isn't necessary but it would be a good idea to have it.

I've owned several ultraportables (X505, TX, TZ, R7, D420, X1, etc.) and it isn't a good idea to use them on a soft surface. You can do it and it isn't going to cause them to explode, but they will run hotter. It's a side effect of cramming so many electrical components into a small space.

ahaxton
Feb 10, 2008, 03:37 PM
The air's heat wasnt really the point of this post but thx

It was more general since the issue touches a bit on the bugs we experience. I used the MBA just fine in bed before and after the issue I had for a few hours last night with the processor heating up and the fans going full blast too quickly.

devilot
Feb 10, 2008, 03:39 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else find the fact that you need to put the MacBook air on a hard surface or a cooling pad, silly? No.


From the moment I switched to Apple, I started off w/a 12" PB G4. I quickly realized by reading MR and the *gasp* product manual, that these machines are called notebooks and NOT laptops because they're not meant to be used on soft, squishy surfaces that can and will block vents.

My PB, iBook, and MB all have vents all around and all their manuals strongly urge users to NOT use these machines on soft surfaces that WILL BLOCK vents.

This is NOT a new occurrence w/ the Air. And it will NOT deter me. Not one bit.

Catch
Feb 10, 2008, 03:42 PM
When I use my MBP on my bed watching say a dvd the thing gets hot enough that its hard to touch. So I'd say its not an isolated MBA problem. If you don't mind your laptop getting this hot then carry on... at your own risk.

C

Cybergypsy
Feb 10, 2008, 03:44 PM
I use mine while laying down and the vents are in the air sort of......

Catch
Feb 10, 2008, 03:46 PM
Did we really need a whole new thread on this? Sometimes people should just use their heads...

C

Sun Baked
Feb 10, 2008, 03:46 PM
No.


From the moment I switched to Apple, I started off w/a 12" PB G4. I quickly realized by reading MR and the *gasp* product manual, that these machines are called notebooks and NOT laptops because they're not meant to be used on soft, squishy surfaces that can and will block vents.

My PB, iBook, and MB all have vents all around and all their manuals strongly urge users to NOT use these machines on soft surfaces that WILL BLOCK vents.

This is NOT a new occurrence w/ the Air. And it will NOT deter me. Not one bit.

Some people's laps are softer and squishier than others, as is their tolerance for heat on the legs.

kockgunner
Feb 10, 2008, 04:46 PM
As i said before, the issue isn't really the heat of the Macbook air. It's how manufacturers augment their products (mainly by making them smaller) by leaving things out. Many companies could make a product like the Air if they left out an optical drives or Ethernet and USB ports, but that would defeat the purpose of a portable laptop as one would need to carry dongles and hubs in addition to their computer. I guess my question is how much engineering is actually going into our products.

For example, if one goes into a mountain and brings a cell phone, he would have to use the huge satellite phones to communicate. Consumer cell phones used to be big but now some are only a few millimeters thin. But is our tech really getting as advanced as we think? The reason why cell phones are so small is largely due to the fact that there are more cellphone towers so phones don't need large built-in antennae to pick up signals. How far have we really come in terms of technology. Is it really that our devices are getting smaller and more high tech or is it just that our cities are more accommodative around our technology?

MazingerZ
Feb 10, 2008, 05:14 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else find the fact that you need to put the MacBook air on a hard surface or a cooling pad, silly? When I use an ultraportable, I don't want to carry another device around just to keep my laptop from overheating. Also, one of the reasons for a laptop is so that one can compute anywhere: sitting down, on a bed, or on a sofa. Now if I do that with the air, I'll be blocking the cooling vents, causing one of the cores to shut down to prevent the computer from overheating. Now I have a single core 1.67 ghz processor on my hands. Why do manufacturers design products, touting them as the smallest, thinnest or whatever when the products need external components to make them work in the first place? It's like an xbox 360. It's pretty small compared to the ps3 but you end up with an huge external power brick. I don't consider that to be an engineering feat. I mean, I could design a thinner laptop than the air except my laptop would have an external battery, docking station, and keyboard which defeats the purpose of the small laptop right? The extra inconvenience of carrying all these external devices and not being able to put the air on a pillow outweighs the lightness of the laptop. I don't really know if this post has a point, but what are your thoughts on this?

I've been using my MBA on top of a pillow for the last 7 days and my fans have been at 2500 rpm most of the time. I'm not really sure what heat issue you are talking about because its not an issue with my MBA. Are you saying that your MBA does this?

kockgunner
Feb 10, 2008, 05:39 PM
I've been using my MBA on top of a pillow for the last 7 days and my fans have been at 2500 rpm most of the time. I'm not really sure what heat issue you are talking about because its not an issue with my MBA. Are you saying that your MBA does this?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=428380&highlight=heat%2C+air

and also:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20080131/bs_nf/58135:
"The laptop may also become sluggish after prolonged use, Apple said, because it may shut down one of the CPU cores, and even slow the clock speed of the remaining core, to protect itself from overheating. The solution is to move the computer to a cooler area or use a notebook cooling pad to dissipate the heat."

MazingerZ
Feb 10, 2008, 05:42 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=428380&highlight=heat%2C+air

Are you and Jalpert the same guy? Are you having issues with your MBA or you are just speculating that all our MBA's are having issues?

PlaceofDis
Feb 10, 2008, 05:42 PM
No.


From the moment I switched to Apple, I started off w/a 12" PB G4. I quickly realized by reading MR and the *gasp* product manual, that these machines are called notebooks and NOT laptops because they're not meant to be used on soft, squishy surfaces that can and will block vents.

My PB, iBook, and MB all have vents all around and all their manuals strongly urge users to NOT use these machines on soft surfaces that WILL BLOCK vents.

This is NOT a new occurrence w/ the Air. And it will NOT deter me. Not one bit.

thank you. exact thing i was going to say. they're portables. but they're not meant to be used on your lap.

cohibadad
Feb 10, 2008, 05:52 PM
I use my MBA on my lap quite a bit and don't have any overheating problems.

abijnk
Feb 10, 2008, 06:02 PM
Is it really that our devices are getting smaller and more high tech or is it just that our cities are more accommodative around our technology?

It's both actually. Your cell phone analogy has the same answer, it's both.

I am going to take a leap here and say you are not a computer or electrical engineer (or a computer scientists, etc etc). Well, myself and my fiance are. The leaps and bounds that have been and continue to be made in technology are phenomenal. Going back to your cell phone analogy, the fact that there are more cell towers in more places isn't (just) society becoming more accomodating, that in itself is a technological advancement. We can make smaller towers now and can therefore put them in more places.

Take for example the Penryn processor. People don't understand why it is such a huge deal since there are only modest speed gains and power improvements. They shrunk the processor from 65nm to 45nm, that's a big step. That means the smallest feature size is 45 nanometers, or, to put it into perspective, it is 1.7% the diameter of a human hair (which is 2540 nanometers on average). If that isn't an engineering feat I don't know what is. The new penryn chips also incorporate a different hardware technique for division. This is the first major overhaul of the process since the original Pentiums came out in 1993 (there is a really great article about it in the current edition of IEEE Spectrum).

To say that we aren't really moving forward, but that we are just getting more adapted is thoroughly inaccurate. As technology marches forward it will continue to shape out lives, that is just a fact. Technology will find a more definite and defined place as new products are introduced, and it will continue to feel more and more natural to interact with electronics in all that we do. As such, the illusion that things aren't changing much will probably become more prevalent to those who don't understand the inner workings of things such as processors or cell phones. That's not to say the general public is stupid or anything, it just doesn't matter to many people, they just care that it works. However, a look behind the scenes will show that the advances in engineering these things are nothing less than amazing.

kockgunner
Feb 10, 2008, 06:08 PM
thank you. exact thing i was going to say. they're portables. but they're not meant to be used on your lap.

why not?

and do you guys actually read the post? It's not about the heat issue...

beatzfreak
Feb 10, 2008, 06:09 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=428380&highlight=heat%2C+air

You say this isn't about the heat issue, yet you pull up a thread about the heat issue. Anyway, I have been using the MBA on my lap for 2 days and have had no heat issues and don't for see a need to carry around a laptop cooler.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20080131/bs_nf/58135:
"The laptop may also become sluggish after prolonged use, Apple said, because it may shut down one of the CPU cores, and even slow the clock speed of the remaining core, to protect itself from overheating. The solution is to move the computer to a cooler area or use a notebook cooling pad to dissipate the heat."

As has been stated, Apple has said this about their other notebooks, not just the air.

devilot
Feb 10, 2008, 06:10 PM
why not? Did you see what I wrote in my post? Apple, as in the manufacturer and designer for the machine in question, specifically states in the user manual, NOT to use the machine in that manner. If a user misuses the product in terms of how what it was designed for-- then that user seems silly for being upset when it doesn't perform as expected.

For example, say I buy a microwave. And the manual says, do NOT microwave metallic objects. And I do so anyway. I shouldn't be upset or surprised that the microwave and other things don't wind up in great shape.

As has been stated, Apple has said this about their other notebooks, not just the air.Yup, which I also wrote in my first post.

PlaceofDis
Feb 10, 2008, 06:14 PM
why not?

because its a 'notebook' not a 'laptop' nitpicking perhaps but its the way that apple treats its portables. see page 58 of your user manual. apple even cautions and warns that your notebook will get hot during use and that a solid. steady surface is better for ventilation.

kockgunner
Feb 10, 2008, 06:19 PM
It's both actually. Your cell phone analogy has the same answer, it's both.

I am going to take a leap here and say you are not a computer or electrical engineer (or a computer scientists, etc etc). Well, myself and my fiance are. The leaps and bounds that have been and continue to be made in technology are phenomenal. Going back to your cell phone analogy, the fact that there are more cell towers in more places isn't (just) society becoming more accomodating, that in itself is a technological advancement. We can make smaller towers now and can therefore put them in more places.

Take for example the Penryn processor. People don't understand why it is such a huge deal since there are only modest speed gains and power improvements. They shrunk the processor from 65nm to 45nm, that's a big step. That means the smallest feature size is 45 nanometers, or, to put it into perspective, it is 1.7% the diameter of a human hair (which is 2540 nanometers on average). If that isn't an engineering feat I don't know what is. The new penryn chips also incorporate a different hardware technique for division. This is the first major overhaul of the process since the original Pentiums came out in 1993 (there is a really great article about it in the current edition of IEEE Spectrum).

To say that we aren't really moving forward, but that we are just getting more adapted is thoroughly inaccurate. As technology marches forward it will continue to shape out lives, that is just a fact. Technology will find a more definite and defined place as new products are introduced, and it will continue to feel more and more natural to interact with electronics in all that we do. As such, the illusion that things aren't changing much will probably become more prevalent to those who don't understand the inner workings of things such as processors or cell phones. That's not to say the general public is stupid or anything, it just doesn't matter to many people, they just care that it works. However, a look behind the scenes will show that the advances in engineering these things are nothing less than amazing.

I know that our cell phones aren't just getting smaller because of more cell towers, but I was just making it simpler for other people to understand my point. But great post, you actually looked past the heat issue of the Macbook air and looked at the bigger picture.

mashoutposse
Feb 10, 2008, 06:24 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else find the fact that you need to put the MacBook air on a hard surface or a cooling pad, silly? When I use an ultraportable, I don't want to carry another device around just to keep my laptop from overheating. Also, one of the reasons for a laptop is so that one can compute anywhere: sitting down, on a bed, or on a sofa. Now if I do that with the air, I'll be blocking the cooling vents, causing one of the cores to shut down to prevent the computer from overheating. Now I have a single core 1.67 ghz processor on my hands. Why do manufacturers design products, touting them as the smallest, thinnest or whatever when the products need external components to make them work in the first place? It's like an xbox 360. It's pretty small compared to the ps3 but you end up with an huge external power brick. I don't consider that to be an engineering feat. I mean, I could design a thinner laptop than the air except my laptop would have an external battery, docking station, and keyboard which defeats the purpose of the small laptop right? The extra inconvenience of carrying all these external devices and not being able to put the air on a pillow outweighs the lightness of the laptop. I don't really know if this post has a point, but what are your thoughts on this?

Do you own one?

diabolic
Feb 10, 2008, 06:32 PM
As i said before, the issue isn't really the heat of the Macbook air. It's how manufacturers augment their products (mainly by making them smaller) by leaving things out.

I really think it's a target market issue again. Since the first day when I re-installed OSX from the external Superdrive, I haven't connected anything to my MBA. All software, movies, and music were downloadable. I don't need to carry around anything but the MBA.

I use my MBA on my lap quite a bit and don't have any overheating problems.

Same here.

abijnk
Feb 10, 2008, 06:34 PM
I know that our cell phones aren't just getting smaller because of more cell towers, but I was just making it simpler for other people to understand my point. But great post, you actually looked past the heat issue of the Macbook air and looked at the bigger picture.

I think we are operating on the same wavelength here ;) (yes, cheesey cell phone pun completely intended)

With the air, Apple has added a new way of thinking about what makes a computer portable. As to your specific post, it really comes down to what you want and what you are willing to sacrifice. Most companies view the idea of an ultra portable pc as something you can fit in a purse or other small bag and take with you more conveniently. Apple presented us with a notebook that is lighter than crap, thin (and therefore much easier to fit in a backpack or messenger bag), but still gives you the feeling of a regular sized 13.3" computer. Are there sacrifices? OF COURSE!!! But what good doesn't come with sacrifices?

For me personally the AIR is exactly what I need, its like Stevie was crawling around inside my brain and picked out what I need in a computer. It is powerful enough for me to accomplish all of my tasks with ease, is light enough to haul around campus with even greater ease than my old macbook, and is thin so it takes up less space in my backpack.

Is it like this for everyone? Nope, and thats why we have all different flavors of computers. Ones you can drop without too much worry, ones where you can write on the screen, small ones that will fit almost anywhere, big ones that will do almost anything, and all those inbetween. Each presents its own engineering feats, its own design standards, and its own sacrifices.

Now, if we could just get all these flavors with a sprinkle of Mac OSX. :)

(I hope I haven't gone too philosophical and mushy...)

kockgunner
Feb 10, 2008, 06:38 PM
No.


From the moment I switched to Apple, I started off w/a 12" PB G4. I quickly realized by reading MR and the *gasp* product manual, that these machines are called notebooks and NOT laptops because they're not meant to be used on soft, squishy surfaces that can and will block vents.

My PB, iBook, and MB all have vents all around and all their manuals strongly urge users to NOT use these machines on soft surfaces that WILL BLOCK vents.

This is NOT a new occurrence w/ the Air. And it will NOT deter me. Not one bit.

But many other laptops don't need to be put on a hard surface. Doesn't the fact that Apple suggests one to do so and even puts it in their manuals kinda seem like they're just saving their resources by not having developing a better cooling system? Instead of spending money on finding an effective way to cool their laptops all these years, Apple requires the user to use their products in a certain way.

QuarterSwede
Feb 10, 2008, 06:44 PM
But many other laptops don't need to be put on a hard surface.Block any of the vents on any other notebook and you'll have the fans spinning up to cool the system down. I use my 12" PB on my lap and bed all the time. The only time the fans spin up loud enough to annoy me (when doing non proc intensive work) is when I've partially blocked the vents.

mashoutposse
Feb 10, 2008, 06:52 PM
But many other laptops don't need to be put on a hard surface. Doesn't the fact that Apple suggests one to do so and even puts it in their manuals kinda seem like they're just saving their resources by not having developing a better cooling system? Instead of spending money on finding an effective way to cool their laptops all these years, Apple requires the user to use their products in a certain way.

Have you owned an MBA long enough to know definitively whether its cooling system is sufficient for your situation? Do you own one at all?

kockgunner
Feb 10, 2008, 06:54 PM
Do you own one?

yes i do in fact own one.

beatzfreak
Feb 10, 2008, 07:03 PM
yes i do in fact own one.

Have you read page 58 of your manual?

It says that the bottom of your MBA may become very warm during use. If your MBA is on your lap and gets uncomfortably warm remove it...

There is also a similar statement in my Fujitsu notebook manual.

mashoutposse
Feb 10, 2008, 07:03 PM
yes i do in fact own one.

Which model? If you have the HDD version, more heat is to be expected. I think the MBA was designed with the SSD in mind.

cohibadad
Feb 10, 2008, 07:13 PM
I don't really know if this post has a point, but what are your thoughts on this?

The air's heat wasnt really the point of this post but thx

dunno what the point of the post was but I don't carry anything with my MBA, especially a cooling pad, and I use it anywhere including my lap without excess heat or a core shutting down. I think that sufficiently covers most of what I read in the post.

kockgunner
Feb 10, 2008, 07:50 PM
dunno what the point of the post was but I don't carry anything with my MBA, especially a cooling pad, and I use it anywhere including my lap without excess heat or a core shutting down. I think that sufficiently covers most of what I read in the post.

I dont know where this whole thread went. At least it got some discussion going

Clix Pix
Feb 10, 2008, 07:56 PM
No heat issues here with my 1.8 SSD MBA......in fact, I have been enjoying using it on my lap, which is something I didn't normally do with my MBP because of the tendency of that machine to get a bit too warm. The MBA is amazing in that it doesn't get so toasty! On a flat surface -- tabletop, workstation, whatever, no need for a cooling pad, either. Someone has pointed out that there may be differences between the standard HD and the SSD that account for the variance in heating issues.....and that makes sense to me.

meagain
Feb 10, 2008, 07:59 PM
Kockgunner - the thread went this way because 50% of your post references heat/vents. :)

I see the vents being on the bottom as a problem for me.
My question - Say I have the flu and I'm in bed surfing the net. Can I just close the lid and set it next to me on the down comforter safely or will I start a fire or damage the machine?? I assume it'll go to sleep - will it be OK or no?

abijnk
Feb 10, 2008, 08:17 PM
Kockgunner - the thread went this way because 50% of your post references heat/vents. :)

I see the vents being on the bottom as a problem for me.
My question - Say I have the flu and I'm in bed surfing the net. Can I just close the lid and set it next to me on the down comforter safely or will I start a fire or damage the machine?? I assume it'll go to sleep - will it be OK or no?

It should shut itself off to prevent any damage.

thefferon
Feb 10, 2008, 08:24 PM
You don't need any cooling thing what not for your MBA. If you have overheating issues it's easily fixed with playing around with restarts and the power adapter, with of course a SMU reset.

Best tweak I have found: Shut down MBA, unplug adapter, do SMU reset, turn MBA back on.

What's SMU please, and how do you do it?

ahaxton
Feb 10, 2008, 08:30 PM
What's SMU please, and how do you do it?

It's a controller on the logic board that regulates a lot of different things.

Shut down your MBA, Once shut down hold these buttons: left shift, left control, left option, then press the power button once while holding down those buttons. Let go and wait like 10-15 seconds then turn your MBA back on.

mashoutposse
Feb 10, 2008, 09:25 PM
It's a controller on the logic board that regulates a lot of different things.

Shut down your MBA, Once shut down hold these buttons: left shift, left control, left option, then press the power button once while holding down those buttons. Let go and wait like 10-15 seconds then turn your MBA back on.

What indication of a successful reset should the MBA give me after I've turned it back on?

admanimal
Feb 10, 2008, 10:14 PM
I have used my Air for web and email while having it on my lap with the vents mostly blocked and the fans and temps stay low and constant. I wouldn't expect this to be the case if I was doing something more intense with it...but I didn't buy the Air to do anything intense with.

happyslayer
Feb 10, 2008, 10:55 PM
I have been using my MBA on my lap for the last 3 hours. the rear of the laptop is barely warm. Not hot in any way.

Last night I was using it in bed resting on my knees on a comforter with NO issues whatsoever. Just web surfing and a bit of writing in Word 2008.

I am not doing video editing or anything but that is not what I bought it for.

MBA 1.8/SSD

maokh
Feb 10, 2008, 11:38 PM
i used this thing for about 5 hours now, i have not noticed any heat issues. Its running a lot cooler than my macbook. Its been on my lap about 90% of the time...

lewisozz
Feb 12, 2008, 01:48 PM
Wonder why they call it a Laptop when you cant put it on your lap ??? Without a Cooling Pad or A TABLE ON YOUR LAP !!!!

tofupancake
Feb 12, 2008, 01:51 PM
I've been using my MBA on top of a pillow for the last 7 days and my fans have been at 2500 rpm most of the time. I'm not really sure what heat issue you are talking about because its not an issue with my MBA. Are you saying that your MBA does this?

Same here, everything seems fine! Maybe in summer...

admanimal
Feb 12, 2008, 01:55 PM
Wonder why they call it a Laptop when you cant put it on your lap ??? Without a Cooling Pad or A TABLE ON YOUR LAP !!!!

Who exactly is calling it a laptop? Apple certainly is not...