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dylanemcgregor
Oct 24, 2003, 12:29 PM
I'm very much a Mac newbie and could use a little assistance upgrading my girlfriend's G4 (dual 500MHz) to panther from 9.0.1 (I think)

Sorry for the very basic questions, but she will kill me if I mess anything up... ;)

I understand that classic runs better if you upgrade to the latest version of OS 9 (9.2.2?) Should I do this before I install panther or after? Where would be a good place to get an upgrade copy of OS 9?

In the Windows world they usually suggest that you reformat before installing the OS. Is this necessary on a Mac? How exactly does the "Classic" environment work? Do you have the option at startup to boot into OS 9, or is it an emulation that runs from within OS X? The majority of her time on the computer is probably going to be spent in Classic mode... we just don't have the money to upgrade all of her software at this time. Is it still worth the upgrade? Will it make running her OS 9 programs a PITA...?

Thanks for any and all help or advice...

-Dylan

fBaran
Oct 24, 2003, 01:23 PM
OS 9 runs in a window on your desktop, I guess it works well, I never used it. Panther doesn't run Classic I THINK...

j33pd0g
Oct 24, 2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by fBaran
OS 9 runs in a window on your desktop, I guess it works well, I never used it. Panther doesn't run Classic I THINK...

Panther most certainly supports Classic. Classic also runs without having to be in a window. The only thing that is in a window is OS 9.2 start up. BTW - I always found 9.2.2 to be better than OS 9.0.1 or OS 9.1

dylanemcgregor
Oct 24, 2003, 02:30 PM
Thanks for the response so far.

Any advice on where to purchace a copy of OS 9.2.2? Is it better to wait to install Panther until after I have upgraded her to 9.2.2?

-Dylan

j33pd0g
Oct 24, 2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
Thanks for the response so far.

Any advice on where to purchace a copy of OS 9.2.2? Is it better to wait to install Panther until after I have upgraded her to 9.2.2?

-Dylan

A lady I work with called Apple to find out, and they said you can download it for free off the Apple web site.

Giaguara
Oct 24, 2003, 02:42 PM
9.2 should not be a free release, afaik.

yellow
Oct 24, 2003, 02:48 PM
All updates are free and downloadable (if you're in the U.S., I'm not sure if you're elsewhere) from Apple's Support site. You cannot skip from 9.0.x to 9.2.2 directly (with a CD installer you can) thru the downloads. Some of them are quite large, so if you don't have braodband, this could take a while.
The first piece is 9.0.x -> 9.1, the second piece is 9.1 -> 9.2.1, and the third piece is 9.2.1 -> 9.2.2. All of them can be found starting here:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75288
Note the Upgrade order..

dylanemcgregor
Oct 24, 2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by yellow
All updates are free and downloadable (if you're in the U.S., I'm not sure if you're elsewhere) from Apple's Support site. You cannot skip from 9.0.x to 9.2.2 directly (with a CD installer you can) thru the downloads. Some of them are quite large, so if you don't have braodband, this could take a while.
The first piece is 9.0.x -> 9.1, the second piece is 9.1 -> 9.2.1, and the third piece is 9.2.1 -> 9.2.2. All of them can be found starting here:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75288
Note the Upgrade order..

Thanks, I appreciate you posting the download order. I'd seen this referenced at another site...but they didn't mention the specific upgrade path. I guess I will see if I can bring her computer over to my place so she can use my broadband connection...she only gets 14.4 kbps at her place. :rolleyes:

-Dylan

solvs
Oct 24, 2003, 03:46 PM
That's what I did with my Mom's PowerBook when I installed Jaguar. She had AOL @ like 26K. I have ~1MB Cable, hooked it into my router and it worked without configuration. Updated to 9.1, 9.2.1, 9.2.2., and everything else. Installed OS 10.2, no formatting, no problem. Showed her how to dual boot between the 2.

Now if only she can get get Panther for free (she's a teacher, got Jaguar for free) for her iBook. She still likes OS 9, though. :p

dylanemcgregor
Oct 24, 2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by solvs
She still likes OS 9, though. :p

I'm a little afraid of upgrading my girlfriend to OS X, she's not real big on learning new things...at least when it comes to computers.

I'm really doing this for me though, I need Expose...:o :D

As a Windows user it has been really frustrating for me to not have a quick way to get to the desktop or to switch between open windows. Looks like Expose is going to make that problem go away with style...:cool:

-Dylan

yellow
Oct 24, 2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
Thanks, I appreciate you posting the download order. No problemo.. 10.3 is pretty sweet, BTW.

Makosuke
Oct 24, 2003, 08:14 PM
A bit more info...
The majority of her time on the computer is probably going to be spent in Classic mode... we just don't have the money to upgrade all of her software at this time. Is it still worth the upgrade? Will it make running her OS 9 programs a PITA...?Quite the contrary, Classic runs just fine, and better under 10.3 than previous releases (the windows draw better when you drag stuff over them, I believe).

The advantage of running things in Classic as opposed to natively is that when OS9 inevitably crashes, you can just restart classic instead of rebooting the whole computer, since X just keeps on truckin'.

She can also use whatever OSX native software she wants, which will run vastly better than anything in classic--web browsers, for example (your choice of Safari, Camino, or a much newer version of Mozilla than Classic supports).

How exactly does the "Classic" environment work? Do you have the option at startup to boot into OS 9, or is it an emulation that runs from within OS X?
It's similar to emulation--when you want, a virtual machine running classic boots essentially like a seperate application under OSX. Other than that, Classic applications run like any other app (and exactly as they did if your machine is booting into classic natively).

If Classic crashes (which can happen the same way it does if you're running 9 normally), only the classic virtual machine dies, which is essentially like having any other application in OSX crash--the rest of the OS and any apps running are left untouched. This is nice.

Once you've got X installed, if she feels like it she can still boot into OS9 directly--just select it as the startup system in the Preference pane, or hold down Option when the computer starts booting (I think the option trick will work on a computer of that age). To switch back just repeat the process with the Startup Disk Control Panel.

In the Windows world they usually suggest that you reformat before installing the OS. Is this necessary on a Mac?It's not really necessary, although if you've got a disk utility around it'd be a good idea to run a check first.

A couple other tips:

If she's almost always running at least one classic application, you can set OSX to start Classic at startup to save a bit of time when she launches her first Classic application (otherwise it'll load Classic, which takes about a minute, when she first launches a Classic application). That option is a System Preference.

If you haven't already, dump a bunch of RAM in the computer if you can at all afford it--RAM is dirt cheap these days, and OSX loves it, particularly when running Classic.

Lastly, her computer, being a dual processor, is going to love OSX--Classic barely makes use of the 2nd processor, while OSX does whenever it can. If she plays music in the background with OSX iTunes, it will have essentially zero effect on the performance of Classic, since the OS will divide the work between the two processors.

One more thing: Tell her to prepare to reorganize a bit; she'll probably want to start storing all her files in her Home folder (make sure you throw it in the Dock), which takes some getting used to for a longtime Mac user, but if she sticks with it for a while she'll almost certainly love it after a while.

dylanemcgregor
Oct 25, 2003, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the very comprehensive answers to my questions. I'm feeling a lot more confident about installing Panther after reading your post.

I am upgrading her RAM, I've ordered a 512 stick which will up her total to 768. Should this be "enough?"

Sorry for this total newbie question, but what exactly is the "dock?" I've heard it referenced a lot, but still don't know exactly what it is...

Any other tips?

-Dylan

yellow
Oct 25, 2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
I am upgrading her RAM, I've ordered a 512 stick which will up her total to 768. Should this be "enough?"Sorry for this total newbie question, but what exactly is the "dock?" Yes, that is (more than) enough. The dock is a menu-bar, if you will, that (somewhat) takes place of the Apple Menu and Application Menu from <= OS 9. By default it lives on the bottom of the Desktop and contains shortcuts to Apps, files, and folders. It also tells you what apps are currently running.

dylanemcgregor
Oct 25, 2003, 12:53 PM
So kind of the Mac version of the Windows Taskbar?

No offense intended...;)

yellow
Oct 25, 2003, 12:59 PM
Yep, you might say that. No offense taken. It's OK that Apple is stealing from Windows. Windows has been ripping off Apple for years.

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 09:01 AM
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already, but I highly recommend a separate HD partition for a bootable version of OS 9. You will needat least 1.5 GB for this partition, 2 GB would be better. I tried having a boot OS 9 without a separate partition and it nearly drove me crazy and I am an experienced Mac user.

Also, a full install OS 9.2 CD can be purchased from Apple for $19.95 with a Panther serial number and software coupon. In other words, you have to get Panther first, then send away for the OS 9.2 full install CD. I predict you will be glad you did this.

dylanemcgregor
Oct 26, 2003, 09:46 AM
Thanks for the advice. How do I go about setting up a partition on a Mac...I know how to on a pc, but have never done it.

I'm not sure that her system neds to be able to boot into OS 9. I understand that some programs will only run if the system is booted into OS 9, while others run just fine in Classic mode. From talks with other people it seems that most if not all of the programs she uses will run fine in Classic (Illustrator, Photoshop, Freehand, etc...)

What's the best install order? Do I do a clean install of Panther and then install OS 9.2 on top of it, or is it the other way around?

-Dylan

yellow
Oct 26, 2003, 09:53 AM
Partitioning is done in the Disk Utility. However, IMO, it's not necessary to partition your drive for OS 9. It's a convenience if you want to boot into 9 because you can hold Option on boot and select the start up volume. But even unpartitioned, you can still boot to 9 if you select it as the start up disk inside the OS X system prefs. If you do decide that you want to partition, you're going to have to back up all her data, because partitioning erases the volume.

Also IMO, you'll have an easier time installing the 9 updaters first, before you install Panther. But there's nothing in the world that says you cannot install Panther first.

You could always just buy her another hard drive and throw it in there and install Panther on it. Disk is cheap.

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 09:57 AM
What kind of Mac does she have? How big is the HD?

There are advantages to having a bootable partition of OS 9. Classic OS 9 has no access to Hardware and communications and some OS 9 software requires access, consequently will not run in classic.

For more experienced users, there are also things you may want to do to OS 10 that are most easily done while booted up under OS 9.

Anyway, I cannot really tell if this would be an advantage for her or not. I do agree that any OS 9 software that will run in Classic is better off there.

I will be happy to explain how to partition when you tell me more about her Mac. I assume you have a full install CD of OS 9?

yellow
Oct 26, 2003, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
I'm very much a Mac newbie and could use a little assistance upgrading my girlfriend's G4 (dual 500MHz) to panther from 9.0.1 (I think) Part of the answer is in the first post of the thread.

yellow
Oct 26, 2003, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by b_riggs
Classic OS 9 has no access to Hardware and communications and some OS 9 software requires access, consequently will not run in classic. I'm not sure what you mean here, don't mislead him. I think what you mean is that you cannot change network settings, but all the classic apps still have access to the network stack. I.,e, Internet Explorer in Classic can still get to web pages just fine.

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 10:08 AM
You are correct, you can boot to OS 9 without a separate partition. However, I guarantee that both you and OS 10 will (at least occasionally) get confused over having two OS 9 System Folders on the same HD, one for booting and one for Classic.

This can partially be delt with with Conflict Catcher Version 9, but I still ran into confusion and was much happier when I went to a separate partition. Also, Conflict Catcher version 9 costs money. I tried both ways so I am speaking from experience.

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 10:15 AM
I should have said direct access. For example, the TCP/IP control panel is not available under classic. Some OS 9 software requires this. There are other instances. I have no way of knowing whether any of her OS 9 software falls into this category. But no one is claiming that all OS 9 software will run under classic. When it does not, this lack of direct access to hardware is usually the reason.

yellow
Oct 26, 2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by b_riggs
You are correct, you can boot to OS 9 without a separate partition. However, I guarantee that both you and OS 10 will (at least occasionally) get confused over having two OS 9 System Folders on the same HD, one for booting and one for Classic. Why on earth do you have 2 System Folders? If the machine has the ROMs to boot into OS 9, it uses the same System Folder that Classic uses to start.

yellow
Oct 26, 2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by b_riggs
For example, the TCP/IP control panel is not available under classic. Some OS 9 software requires this. You're right, you cannot open or change the settings in the TCP/IP control panel, but the TCP/IP stack is still available for use by apps. Out of curiosity, which apps require opening & closing the TCP/IP Control Panel?

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 10:29 AM
I'm not sure exactly how to answer this because it has been quite a while since I was working with OS 9 and OS 10 on the same HD. However, it is clear that the versions of OS 9 Classic and OS 9 boot are extremely different. Classic is extremly truncated, with only a few extensions and control panels. So, at a minimum, one has to have a way of controling what loads when booting or when loading Classic from the same System Folder. This can be done with Conflict Catcher V 9, but it is not all that great in practice.

Anyway, besides my own experience, I refere you to Mac OS X, The Missing Manual, Second Edition, by David Pogue, who highly recommends a second partition for OS 9.

yellow
Oct 26, 2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by b_riggs
However, it is clear that the versions of OS 9 Classic and OS 9 boot are extremely different. Classic is extremly truncated, with only a few extensions and control panels. So, at a minimum, one has to have a way of controling what loads when booting or when loading Classic from the same System Folder. This can be done with Conflict Catcher V 9, but it is not all that great in practice. Classic, as it is installed by OS X's installers is pared down, certainly. But it's nearly identical to the default, clean install from an OS 9 cd. I have ~150 (originally OS 9) Macs that have OS X installed and use the old OS 9 System Folder as Classic. I've never had to reinstall Classic from the OS X installers to get it to work properly. One can still open the Extensions Manager in OS X and change which extensions are loaded at boot/classic-boot through the Advanced tab in the Classic pref pane.

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 10:38 AM
My basic point depends on information I do not have.

That is - IF, and only if, she wants to be able to boot in OS 9, for any reason, she will be better off with a separate OS 9 partition.

This was my own experience, and is also recommended by users and authors who are much more knowledgable than I am.

dylanemcgregor
Oct 26, 2003, 10:51 AM
Yikes, You guys are scaring me a bit. :o

A couple of things:

1) Her computer is a dual 500MHz G4 "gigabit ethernet." It is currently running 256MB of RAM, but I'm planning on upgrading that with another 512MB soon. She has a 40GB harddrive that is mostly empty (she's using 15%.) I've been thinking about adding another drive, but I've given that kind of low priority since she still has a fair amount of room left on this one. I also just installed a Pioneer DVD burner.

2) My girlfriend is an artist, right now she is mostly using her computer to make prints of her originals. She is also starting to get into digital photography, but hasn't experimented with it too much yet.

Her computer has been acting kind of wacky for a while now. It crashes or temporarily freezes quite often. She gets intermittent messages warning her that she is low on HD space, when she's only using about 5GB worth, etc...

Because of this I assume it is best to at some point do a clean install? Of course she has no idea where any of her program discs are...but that's another story. Hopefully she will find those soon.

-Dylan

Edit: Sorry took me a while to write this post. The software that she needs to run under OS 9 is primarily Illustrator and Photoshop 5.0. And maybe Pagemaker sometimes. She's also hoping to find a used copy of freehand somewhere.

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 11:10 AM
That is a decent computer and should function well with Panther and Classic. However, there has been a long standing issue about the speed of OS 9 software running in Classic versus running natively under OS 9. I have seen many posts about Classic speed being quite a bit slower than native OS 9. But this does depend on the both the particular app and the particular computer. I personally find Panther to be very snappy but at this point I make hardly any use of OS 9 software. The Apps you mention she uses may well be somewhat slower under classic, just how much, and how annoying that may be to her is unknown.

The first thing you should do is figure out what is going on with her HD, something is fishy. I highly recommend Disk Warrior for fixing most hard drive problems and it has a reputation also of never doing harm, unlike Norton. You can also try Disk First Aid, which is an Apple Utility and should already be present on her HD. But Disk First Aid is not a powerful tool.

The quitting and freezing seems related to the HD issues but could also be partly the normal kind of stuff that comes with OS 9. OS 9 is more reliable if one knows how to maintain a well managed System Folder. This can be learned from experience the hard way, or easier from selected books on OS 9.

yellow
Oct 26, 2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by b_riggs
Anyway, besides my own experience, I refere you to Mac OS X, The Missing Manual, Second Edition, by David Pogue, who highly recommends a second partition for OS 9. I just checked this book, first time I've ever cracked it since I got it, and his suggestion for partitioning is the same that I gave earlier in this thread. Partitioning 9 & X makes booting into either easier, assuming you need to switch which OS you boot into often.

yellow
Oct 26, 2003, 11:34 AM
I'll chorus a second to b_riggs' promotion as DiskWarrior as the disk util of choice. Far and away the best OS X util out there.

I cannot disagree that running in OS 9 is faster then running it as Classic, there is one distinct advantage that Classic has over OS 9. If your girlfriend is having crashing/freezing problems and you cannot iron out the culprit(s).. When the machine freezes in OS 9, you have to reboot. When Classic freezes, you simply restart Classic, no need to reboot the machine. In a few months, you might want to look for Photoshop 7 on eBay. It should be quite cheap since Adobe recently released a new version.

dylanemcgregor
Oct 26, 2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by b_riggs
The quitting and freezing seems related to the HD issues but could also be partly the normal kind of stuff that comes with OS 9. OS 9 is more reliable if one knows how to maintain a well managed System Folder. This can be learned from experience the hard way, or easier from selected books on OS 9.

I have to admit that the freezing and crashing seems to happen more when I use the computer than when she does. It seems to happen mostly when I try to do more than one thing at a time. I can't seem to access a menu while an IE page is loading for example.

The low space on the HD warning seems to be linked to specific files in Illustrator. I've never been there when it happens, so I can't give you any details on it. I will try Disk First Aid and if that doesn't work I will get a copy of Disc Warrior.

I had just assumed that the OS was having a conflict or had become corrupted somehow. In the Windows world reformatting the HD and reinstalling is the catch all to fix just about every problem...a bit extreme perhaps, but...;)

It will be interesting to see how slow her programs become under Classic. We're not talking Virtual PC slow are we?

-Dylan

p.s. Thanks for the "Missing Manual" suggestion. It has been recommended to me before, but you tipped me over the edge, ordered on Amazon just a few minutes ago.

yellow
Oct 26, 2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
It will be interesting to see how slow her programs become under Classic. We're not talking Virtual PC slow are we? I wouldn't say THAT slow :) IMO, after a little while she won't notice the difference. And, no, OS 9 was not very good at multi-threading tasks. OS X is awesome at it.

dylanemcgregor
Oct 26, 2003, 12:08 PM
OK...So I think that I will upgrade her to OS 9.2.2, then install Panther on top of that. If it becomes necessary later to have an easily accesible way to boot into 9, then I will add a partition for it. Sound about right?

-Dylan

yellow
Oct 26, 2003, 12:18 PM
It'd be easier to partition now, since typical partitioning on a Mac requires the drive to be erased. But like I said, disk is cheap, if you find that you need a separate volume later, just buy a cheap (but not slow) hard drive and throw it in there, there's plenty of room for it. Then move her OS 9 stuff to it.

rtcrane
Oct 26, 2003, 12:28 PM
I have the same system: Dual 500 G4, originally with 256 MB RAM, 40 GB drive and OS 9.

What I have now is 768 MB RAM, 120 GB and 80 GB hard drives, Panther and 9.2.2.

How I got there:

1) Exchanged my 40 GB drive for an 80 and added a 120 GB drive (the 120 is my primary drive). Panther is on the 120 and OS 9 is on my 80. 80 GB is overkill for OS 9 but I have partitioned this drive and use the second partition for my iTunes music folder. You don't need to swap out your 40 gig drive for OS 9, but I would highly recommend a larger drive for Panther. If you choose not to get a second drive now, at least partiition the drive into two partitions (see step three).

2) Backup data and get the updates to OS 9 others have already mentioned. You definitely want to be ready to move to 9.2.2. Save these updates to a CD (you said she has a burner now, right?) Start by making sure you have a backup of anything and everything you could possibly need in the futute. Partitioning wipes all data from the drive in the process.

3) Partition the drive: Boot to the first Panther disk (by rebooting while holding down the C key) and run the Disk Utility. Choose the partition tab. Drag the partition divider until the partitions are set the way you want. (If you're doing this with just the 40 gig drive, you should be able to get by with just 4 gig for the OS 9 partition, but remember after re-installing your software to tell Photoshop to use a different partition as the scratch disk.) Name the partitions something obvious like "OS 9 HD" and "OS X HD" so you can easily identify them when you're loading the OS's.

4) Install OS 9: Now reboot to your original OS 9 disk and install. After OS 9 is installed, run all your updates to get up to 9.2.2. Reboot the machine after removing any CD's.

5) Install Panther: Insert the Panther disk and start the installer. Follow the on screen instructions and be sure to choose the larger partition for your installation.

Now you will be able to boot to 9, X or boot to X and use classic. The classic mode automatically disables any esxtensions or control panels that are not relevant. To boot into 9 just restart the machine while holding down the option key and choose the OS 9 option that comes up. It is best to install your OS 9 apps when booted to OS 9, some installers don't work in classic. You don't have to hold down the option key to get back to X (unless you changed the startup disk setting in OS 9) just restart and you will go back to X.

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 12:34 PM
I agree with buying a second HD, It will be easier than having to reformat the existing HD if you do not do it at the beginning. Also, there are other advantages to having a second HD, fast, easy back-up for example. In fact, I suggest you start looking for an inexpensive HD right now at your leasure. Depending on how big it is, it can be used for many useful things.

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 12:45 PM
Very good advice in my opinion. I too would suggest an 80 GB HD for use with Panther. Look for an ATA-100 drive. You can probably find one for about $85. And get Disk Warrior. I also suggest Cocktail (shareware) for various OS 10 maintenance tasks. I am also a big fan of Supercal, the best software I have ever seen for mortals to use to provide a high quality monitor profile.

dylanemcgregor
Oct 26, 2003, 12:55 PM
Thanks. Great step by step instructions. A couple of stupid questions. Forgive me, but I don't understand partitioning that well.

I understand that I would want to keep all the OS 9 programs installed on the OS 9 partition, but do all of her files that she uses with these programs also need to be on that partition?

Sorry, that wasn't very clear. Let me try again. Right now if she opens up one of her document folders and selects a picture file it knows to open up Illustrator to look at that file (I think?) If she had her documents stored on the OS X partition, would it know to look on the OS 9 partition for the programs to open that file?

If I decided to get another HD to install Panther to, would this need to be the primary drive? i know this is a little backwards, but can I have it default to boot into OS 9, and press the option key at startup if she wants to boot into OS X? I'm trying to change her user experience as little as possible at first. She is rather skeptical about upgrading, she used a friends iBook with OS 10.0.2 (I think?) and hated it after 5 minutes. I'd like to be able to install OS X so that she (and more importantly I :D ) can experiment with it gradually.

-Dylan

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 12:59 PM
The Mac world does not really have primary and secondary drives from the user point of view. You select the boot drive and that drive continues to be the boot drive until you change it.

dylanemcgregor
Oct 26, 2003, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by b_riggs
The Mac world does not really have primary and secondary drives from the user point of view. You select the boot drive and that drive continues to be the boot drive until you change it.

Good to know.

I'm thinking for the time being I will just upgrade her to OS 9.2.2 and start looking around for good deals on harddrives to install Panther on to. It seems like this will be the easiest in the long run. (Wish I would have bought that 200GB drive from Dell for $22 a few weeks back.:( )

-Dylan

dylanemcgregor
Oct 26, 2003, 01:31 PM
So I just found this drive on Techbargains (http://www.techbargains.com/)

Maxtor 120GB Deal $59.84, Oct 26
Code: 94097054 Maxtor 120GB 7200RPM ATA/133 8MB Cache hard drive $129.84 - $20 in link - $50 rebates = $59.84. Item 678808 Free shipping.

$50 rebate Exp 11/1/03

It seems like a pretty good deal and am planning on ordering it, but I wanted to make sure that it will work with her Mac. I've never installed a harddrive before so I'm a little nervous about ordering the wrong equipment. Do you guys have any opinions on this drive?

-Dylan

rtcrane
Oct 26, 2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
Sorry, that wasn't very clear. Let me try again. Right now if she opens up one of her document folders and selects a picture file it knows to open up Illustrator to look at that file (I think?) If she had her documents stored on the OS X partition, would it know to look on the OS 9 partition for the programs to open that file?
The Mac keeps track of what's needed to open a file. It doesn't matter where you store it. Just double-click and the right program will open -- even if it has to open "Classic" within OS X first.

If I decided to get another HD to install Panther to, would this need to be the primary drive? i know this is a little backwards, but can I have it default to boot into OS 9, and press the option key at startup if she wants to boot into OS X? I'm trying to change her user experience as little as possible at first. She is rather skeptical about upgrading, she used a friends iBook with OS 10.0.2 (I think?) and hated it after 5 minutes. I'd like to be able to install OS X so that she (and more importantly I :D ) can experiment with it gradually.

-Dylan
As someone already mentioned, the Mac doesn't really distinguish between primary and secondary drives the way the PC does, I just thought this would help you to understand it a little better coming from the PC world.

But to answer your question, yes, that is a great way to go. In the Startup Drive control panel in OS 9 just choose the OS 9 drive as (you guessed it) your start up drive. Then do the option startup thingy to choose OS X when you want.

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 02:28 PM
It should work. Your Mac model is almost certainly a Gigabit Ethernet. If so, it came with an ATA-66 drive interface. But ATA drives are backwards compatible. So this ATA-133 drive will work. I had an ATA-100 drive in an ATA-33 Mac and it worked fine. Also, it was fairly fast.

Speaking of getting the right stuff, this mac takes PC-100 memory.

A word of caution, there is a limit to the size of hard drive that OS 9 can see/manage (as a boot drive). So that is another reason to think about partitioning the new hard drive. It will be faster than the stock drive and your girfriend will want to be able to use it. Of course, in Classic this problem goes away.

rtcrane
Oct 26, 2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
It seems like a pretty good deal and am planning on ordering it, but I wanted to make sure that it will work with her Mac. I've never installed a harddrive before so I'm a little nervous about ordering the wrong equipment. Do you guys have any opinions on this drive?

-Dylan
Sounds like a good deal to me too. And, yes, it will work with her Mac.

To install it, just open the side of her Mac. Turned off, of course, but still plugged in (this helps dissipate static). Move the jumper on the drive to the slave position (this will be in the instructions that come with the drive). Mount it just above the already installed drive and connect the cable and power. Close the Mac, boot up and run Disk Utility to format ("Erase" in Mac speak) the drive (it will be pre-formatted for use on a PC). It is best to format as Mac OS Extended. If you plan to partition the drive, this is the time to do that as well.

dylanemcgregor
Oct 26, 2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by b_riggs
Speaking of getting the right stuff, this mac takes PC-100 memory.

A guy at the Apple store told me I could use PC-133 memory, plus the OWC configuration page only pops up with PC-133. If I understand correctly it will run at the slower PC-100 speed, but other than that should work fine. Is this correct?

-Dylan

b_riggs
Oct 26, 2003, 03:13 PM
Macs can be VERY picky about memory. My understanding is that some PC-133 is backwards compatible on Macs and some is not. I suggest you check with the memory manufacterer and/or seller.

dylanemcgregor
Oct 26, 2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by rtcrane
Sounds like a good deal to me too. And, yes, it will work with her Mac.

To install it, just open the side of her Mac. Turned off, of course, but still plugged in (this helps dissipate static). Move the jumper on the drive to the slave position (this will be in the instructions that come with the drive). Mount it just above the already installed drive and connect the cable and power. Close the Mac, boot up and run Disk Utility to format ("Erase" in Mac speak) the drive (it will be pre-formatted for use on a PC). It is best to format as Mac OS Extended. If you plan to partition the drive, this is the time to do that as well.

Thanks, anwsered my question before I even had a chance to ask it. I will certainly be referring back to this thread often.

I went ahead and ordered the drive. Should be here on Tuesday. With any luck I should have OS X installed on it by the end of the week. :D :excited:

-Dylan

dylanemcgregor
Nov 1, 2003, 09:20 PM
So my new hard drive came a couple of days ago, and Panther just came today. I'm going to install them both either tomorrow or Monday, but before I do I promised my girlfriend I would triple check that I know what I'm doing. ;)

Thanks to the excellent instructions by rtcrane, I feel pretty comfortable installing the hard drive. After I do this and format it I can then install Panther to this new drive doing a clean install. After I'm finished with this I should have OS 9 on her original drive along with all of her programs and files, correct? The computer will by default boot into 9, and in this mode she shouldn't notice any real differences to what she has now? Later I can go into some system preference folder and change the default boot setting so that she will boot into OS X?

Does this all sound about right? Anything major (or minor) that I'm leaving out? Thanks to everyone for all the help so far. I'm really looking foward to getting her computer up and running with the new OS. I'm sure she's going to love it too. (well eventually ;) )

-Dylan