Upgrading from OS 9.0.1

OS 9 runs in a window on your desktop, I guess it works well, I never used it. Panther doesn't run Classic I THINK...

Originally posted by fBaran
OS 9 runs in a window on your desktop, I guess it works well, I never used it. Panther doesn't run Classic I THINK...

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Panther most certainly supports Classic. Classic also runs without having to be in a window. The only thing that is in a window is OS 9.2 start up. BTW - I always found 9.2.2 to be better than OS 9.0.1 or OS 9.1

Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
Thanks for the response so far.

Any advice on where to purchace a copy of OS 9.2.2? Is it better to wait to install Panther until after I have upgraded her to 9.2.2?

-Dylan

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A lady I work with called Apple to find out, and they said you can download it for free off the Apple web site.

9.2 should not be a free release, afaik.

All updates are free and downloadable (if you're in the U.S., I'm not sure if you're elsewhere) from Apple's Support site. You cannot skip from 9.0.x to 9.2.2 directly (with a CD installer you can) thru the downloads. Some of them are quite large, so if you don't have braodband, this could take a while.
The first piece is 9.0.x -> 9.1, the second piece is 9.1 -> 9.2.1, and the third piece is 9.2.1 -> 9.2.2. All of them can be found starting here:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75288
Note the Upgrade order..

That's what I did with my Mom's PowerBook when I installed Jaguar. She had AOL @ like 26K. I have ~1MB Cable, hooked it into my router and it worked without configuration. Updated to 9.1, 9.2.1, 9.2.2., and everything else. Installed OS 10.2, no formatting, no problem. Showed her how to dual boot between the 2.

Now if only she can get get Panther for free (she's a teacher, got Jaguar for free) for her iBook. She still likes OS 9, though.

Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
Thanks, I appreciate you posting the download order.

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No problemo.. 10.3 is pretty sweet, BTW.

Re: Upgrading from OS 9.0.1

A bit more info...

The majority of her time on the computer is probably going to be spent in Classic mode... we just don't have the money to upgrade all of her software at this time. Is it still worth the upgrade? Will it make running her OS 9 programs a PITA...?

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Quite the contrary, Classic runs just fine, and better under 10.3 than previous releases (the windows draw better when you drag stuff over them, I believe).

The advantage of running things in Classic as opposed to natively is that when OS9 inevitably crashes, you can just restart classic instead of rebooting the whole computer, since X just keeps on truckin'.

She can also use whatever OSX native software she wants, which will run vastly better than anything in classic--web browsers, for example (your choice of Safari, Camino, or a much newer version of Mozilla than Classic supports).

How exactly does the "Classic" environment work? Do you have the option at startup to boot into OS 9, or is it an emulation that runs from within OS X?

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It's similar to emulation--when you want, a virtual machine running classic boots essentially like a seperate application under OSX. Other than that, Classic applications run like any other app (and exactly as they did if your machine is booting into classic natively).

If Classic crashes (which can happen the same way it does if you're running 9 normally), only the classic virtual machine dies, which is essentially like having any other application in OSX crash--the rest of the OS and any apps running are left untouched. This is nice.

Once you've got X installed, if she feels like it she can still boot into OS9 directly--just select it as the startup system in the Preference pane, or hold down Option when the computer starts booting (I think the option trick will work on a computer of that age). To switch back just repeat the process with the Startup Disk Control Panel.

In the Windows world they usually suggest that you reformat before installing the OS. Is this necessary on a Mac?

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It's not really necessary, although if you've got a disk utility around it'd be a good idea to run a check first.

A couple other tips:

If she's almost always running at least one classic application, you can set OSX to start Classic at startup to save a bit of time when she launches her first Classic application (otherwise it'll load Classic, which takes about a minute, when she first launches a Classic application). That option is a System Preference.

If you haven't already, dump a bunch of RAM in the computer if you can at all afford it--RAM is dirt cheap these days, and OSX loves it, particularly when running Classic.

Lastly, her computer, being a dual processor, is going to love OSX--Classic barely makes use of the 2nd processor, while OSX does whenever it can. If she plays music in the background with OSX iTunes, it will have essentially zero effect on the performance of Classic, since the OS will divide the work between the two processors.

One more thing: Tell her to prepare to reorganize a bit; she'll probably want to start storing all her files in her Home folder (make sure you throw it in the Dock), which takes some getting used to for a longtime Mac user, but if she sticks with it for a while she'll almost certainly love it after a while.

Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
I am upgrading her RAM, I've ordered a 512 stick which will up her total to 768. Should this be "enough?"Sorry for this total newbie question, but what exactly is the "dock?"

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Yes, that is (more than) enough. The dock is a menu-bar, if you will, that (somewhat) takes place of the Apple Menu and Application Menu from <= OS 9. By default it lives on the bottom of the Desktop and contains shortcuts to Apps, files, and folders. It also tells you what apps are currently running.

Yep, you might say that. No offense taken. It's OK that Apple is stealing from Windows. Windows has been ripping off Apple for years.

More advise on OS 9 and Panther

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already, but I highly recommend a separate HD partition for a bootable version of OS 9. You will needat least 1.5 GB for this partition, 2 GB would be better. I tried having a boot OS 9 without a separate partition and it nearly drove me crazy and I am an experienced Mac user.

Also, a full install OS 9.2 CD can be purchased from Apple for $19.95 with a Panther serial number and software coupon. In other words, you have to get Panther first, then send away for the OS 9.2 full install CD. I predict you will be glad you did this.

Partitioning is done in the Disk Utility. However, IMO, it's not necessary to partition your drive for OS 9. It's a convenience if you want to boot into 9 because you can hold Option on boot and select the start up volume. But even unpartitioned, you can still boot to 9 if you select it as the start up disk inside the OS X system prefs. If you do decide that you want to partition, you're going to have to back up all her data, because partitioning erases the volume.

Also IMO, you'll have an easier time installing the 9 updaters first, before you install Panther. But there's nothing in the world that says you cannot install Panther first.

You could always just buy her another hard drive and throw it in there and install Panther on it. Disk is cheap.

What kind of Mac does she have? How big is the HD?

There are advantages to having a bootable partition of OS 9. Classic OS 9 has no access to Hardware and communications and some OS 9 software requires access, consequently will not run in classic.

For more experienced users, there are also things you may want to do to OS 10 that are most easily done while booted up under OS 9.

Anyway, I cannot really tell if this would be an advantage for her or not. I do agree that any OS 9 software that will run in Classic is better off there.

I will be happy to explain how to partition when you tell me more about her Mac. I assume you have a full install CD of OS 9?

Re: Upgrading from OS 9.0.1

Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
I'm very much a Mac newbie and could use a little assistance upgrading my girlfriend's G4 (dual 500MHz) to panther from 9.0.1 (I think)

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Part of the answer is in the first post of the thread.

Originally posted by b_riggs
Classic OS 9 has no access to Hardware and communications and some OS 9 software requires access, consequently will not run in classic.

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I'm not sure what you mean here, don't mislead him. I think what you mean is that you cannot change network settings, but all the classic apps still have access to the network stack. I.,e, Internet Explorer in Classic can still get to web pages just fine.

To Yellow

You are correct, you can boot to OS 9 without a separate partition. However, I guarantee that both you and OS 10 will (at least occasionally) get confused over having two OS 9 System Folders on the same HD, one for booting and one for Classic.

This can partially be delt with with Conflict Catcher Version 9, but I still ran into confusion and was much happier when I went to a separate partition. Also, Conflict Catcher version 9 costs money. I tried both ways so I am speaking from experience.

To Yellow

I should have said direct access. For example, the TCP/IP control panel is not available under classic. Some OS 9 software requires this. There are other instances. I have no way of knowing whether any of her OS 9 software falls into this category. But no one is claiming that all OS 9 software will run under classic. When it does not, this lack of direct access to hardware is usually the reason.

Re: To Yellow

Originally posted by b_riggs
You are correct, you can boot to OS 9 without a separate partition. However, I guarantee that both you and OS 10 will (at least occasionally) get confused over having two OS 9 System Folders on the same HD, one for booting and one for Classic.

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Why on earth do you have 2 System Folders? If the machine has the ROMs to boot into OS 9, it uses the same System Folder that Classic uses to start.