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MacRumors
Feb 11, 2008, 07:20 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple's largest competitor in the smartphone market, RIM, today experienced a data outage that spanned multiple carriers (http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/11/technology/rimm_blackberry/index.htm).

RIM said BlackBerry subscribers "may be unable to send or receive messages and may also be unable to "register their device, roam in another location, or use other services such as Internet browsing."

The outage began at roughly 3:30pm and affected all North American carriers, but not necessarily all Blackberry users. Voice and SMS was reportedly unaffected. At this time, RIM reports that service has been restored and an investigation into the outage is ongoing.

Today marks the second major BlackBerry-specific service outage since the iPhone launched in June 2007. While iPhones have occasionally been susceptible to EDGE service interruptions, there have yet to be any iPhone-specific outages.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008/02/11/blackberry-data-service-outage-affects-multiple-carriers/)



puckhead193
Feb 11, 2008, 07:30 PM
my verizon pearl was fine around that time. It was slower then normal to receive emails but they still got through.....

zflauaus
Feb 11, 2008, 09:59 PM
During these outages, the only thing that is affected (at least in my case, on the Verizon Pearl) is BWS (Web service and email). Regular TCP connections like those using Opera Mini and other programs you can set to use TCP will work fine.

helmsc
Feb 11, 2008, 10:12 PM
could something like this happen to the iPhones?

projectle
Feb 11, 2008, 10:27 PM
There are plenty of things that could happen to the iPhone that would be just like this failure...

Let's say Visual Voicemail being offline... GASP!

Either that, or maybe push e-mail being down from Yahoo or Google Maps not being able to connect to the server.

On second thought, all of those things have happened several times.

erandall38
Feb 11, 2008, 11:59 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple's largest competitor in the smartphone market, RIM

Is RIM actually considered a true competitor of the iPhone?

Mebsat
Feb 12, 2008, 01:28 AM
Why is there a single point of failure for all Blackberries across multiple carriers? Does this knock out all enterprise BES users too or can you still check accounts manually but no push?

aviationwiz
Feb 12, 2008, 01:51 AM
That single point of failure is RIM's Network Operations Center, which is what provides the true push email system that RIM has.

However, this outage did not effect all users. I can speak for myself with VZW in Minneapolis, and a friend of mine on TMO in Lawrence, KS, that neither of us had any issues today.

Like projectle said, similar things have happened with the iPhone, however, since RIM is the market king for such devices and used by such a broad user base, when there is a RIM issue, that mainstream news picks up on it.

@erandall38, I whole-heartedly agree, I don't think the BlackBerry is a true competitor to the iPhone at all, nor is the iPhone a true competitor to the BlackBerry. The BlackBerry is a whole different ball game from the iPhone, some don't like it as much, or others, such as myself, like it more.

winterspan
Feb 12, 2008, 04:32 AM
Can anyone clarify why the Blackberry push email service/operations center would be tied in with Web browsing? Does web browsing on a blackberry go through a blackberry server web proxy? What would be the use of that?

michaelsviews
Feb 12, 2008, 05:14 AM
Is RIM actually considered a true competitor of the iPhone?

1. RIM is first
2. iPhone
3. Windows OS PDA's

Some one has to be screwing around with RIM or its there new software for the servers that they just released

Mebsat
Feb 12, 2008, 10:29 AM
There are plenty of things that could happen to the iPhone that would be just like this failure...

Let's say Visual Voicemail being offline... GASP!



But Visual Voicemail is not centrally served, it is on every ATT voicemail server, right? So while one server in a particular place might fail, which I have had happen with BellSouth, it would be isolated.

Is this a good assumption or is there some central component to Visual Voicemail?

opg4759
Feb 12, 2008, 11:04 AM
But Visual Voicemail is not centrally served, it is on every ATT voicemail server, right? So while one server in a particular place might fail, which I have had happen with BellSouth, it would be isolated.

Is this a good assumption or is there some central component to Visual Voicemail?

The way carrier voicemail works is that you have hubs for markets or regions. The Visual Voice mail(VVM) is a separate network box from the voicemail boxes so for example in a CO you might have 20 to 25 voicemail cabinets and then two to four Visual Voice mail servers that when you make the connection with your iPhone the account profile routes your connection through the VVM server and you are pulling your VM though the VVM server as the interface.

Overall the VM account is the same between a BB and a iPhone the only difference s that the iPhone has the interface built in and your account is flaged to use it. I would expect to see BlackBerry's and Windows Mobile phones later this year. Believe it or not Apple didn't invent it VVM it's been in the works for a few years by all the major carriers, I know Comverse, Glennayre, and Unisys has all been working on VVM.

AT&T was just fortunate enough to have a new manufacture(apple) that was willing to test and help develop a interface, rather then stick with what they already had(Nokia,Motorola,RIM,etc) since it's expensive to write and test the code for handsets.

BiikeMike
Feb 12, 2008, 11:09 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple's largest competitor in the smartphone market, RIM,



Is that a joke? They are serving TOTALLY different markets!

longofest
Feb 12, 2008, 11:42 AM
Okay, a few people have had issue with my claim that Apple is competing with RIM and the Blackberry.

Are the two devices different? Yes. The iPhone is definitely more consumer friendly than the blackberry. Also, the iPhone definitely does some things much better than the BlackBerry, whereas the BlackBerry has push-email established, with a huge government market installed.

However, we've run more than a few articles on here about how the iPhone is making inroads to corporate markets. The two devices are both considered smartphones by not only Apple but by marketshare surveyers, which puts them into competition with each other. Latest surveys indicate that Apple is #2 behind RIM (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/05/iphone-with-28-of-u-s-smartphone-marketshare-for-q4-2007/), so RIM is who they need to catch up to.

aristobrat
Feb 12, 2008, 11:51 AM
However, this outage did not effect all users. I can speak for myself with VZW in Minneapolis, and a friend of mine on TMO in Lawrence, KS, that neither of us had any issues today.
Are you guys using BIS or BES? From reading at blackberryforums.com, pretty much every BES-admin over there reported their North American BES' SRPs were dropping during the afternoon/evening, preventing emails from being delivered. I know at 6PM ET, the small 250-user BES I administer had nearly 1000 emails queued up.

Like projectle said, similar things have happened with the iPhone
iPhones do not route their email through a central service like BlackBerrys do. If gmail goes down because something at Google is screwed up, it doesn't affect .Mac or Yahoo mail. The only example I can think of for the iPhone involving email that's similiar to what happened again to RIM yesterday would be if AT&T's EDGE network failed across all of North America, and that'd get plenty of coverage.

kristokn
Feb 12, 2008, 12:12 PM
Is that a joke? They are serving TOTALLY different markets!

Following up what the other poster already said. They both do all the same things -- I'm confused why you think it's a joke. I have a Blackberry Curve through work that has a 4gb microSD card (was only $40) .. has a media player for music/video, acts as an external drive when I plug it in and I can throw videos/mp3s/photos on it. It's actually easier to manage files in that regard than my ipod touch.

At least where I live, in silly-con valley, I know just as many "consumers" with blackberries as I do people with corporate blackberries.

-K

BiikeMike
Feb 12, 2008, 01:02 PM
Following up what the other poster already said. They both do all the same things -- I'm confused why you think it's a joke. I have a Blackberry Curve through work that has a 4gb microSD card (was only $40) .. has a media player for music/video, acts as an external drive when I plug it in and I can throw videos/mp3s/photos on it. It's actually easier to manage files in that regard than my ipod touch.

At least where I live, in silly-con valley, I know just as many "consumers" with blackberries as I do people with corporate blackberries.

-K


Blackberrys are the standard in business. The iPhone is a GREAT device, but not so much as a business device. The iPhone has three BIG things working against it to make it any type of competitor with RIM. #1 is email. No one can hold a candle to RIM's email service. I use mine for 3gmail accounts, and 1 exchange. My mail hits my 8830 sometimes a few minutes before it will hit my desktop. The iPhone can't touch RIM when it comes to email. I work with top level execs that are getting hundreds and hundreds (up to 1000) emails a day that they handle on their Blackberrys.

The second BIG thing the iPhone has working against it is it's camera. That counts out every lawyer, government worker, secured building employee, etc. That is a HUGE amount of people.

Third is it's security software. The iPhone is obviously not a secure device no matter how you slice it. Blackberrys have all sorts of security varification available, and IT departments can administer, monitor, and push out updates to them. I work very closely with people in the banking business, and their computers, blackberrys, etc are locked down tighter than you would believe.

These are just three things of which any one of them would count the iPhone out of the corporate world. Is it a great device? you bet! can it hold a candle to RIM devices in the corporate world? not a chance.

Like I mentioned, I work closely with high level execs of one of the largest securities firms in this country, and we run meetings with hundreds of people at them. Every single person in that room has a blackberry that is company mandated, company controlled, and company supported. A lot of them also have iPhones for personal use, but the company won't even touch them.

kristokn
Feb 12, 2008, 01:34 PM
I'd agree with you Mike, I think I was taken a back by some people assuming the iPhone is consumer and Blackberry is not or corporate only. You can see all the paparazzi photos of Lindsay Lohan partying holding a blackberry to know it's definitely not a corporate only device! hehe

My company uses a blackberry exchange server and I have to say that it rocks, when it's up -- unlike yesterday. I usually get meetings/emails on my blackberry before it arrives in Outlook on my laptop.

Either way, I love both devices. If my company weren't sponsoring Blackberries for everyone and the iPhone had good MS exchange support... I'd probably be using an iPhone.

bigandy
Feb 12, 2008, 04:37 PM
I rather preferred El Reg's headline (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/12/blackberry_servers_down/):

BlackBerry takes Monday afternoon off
:D

BiikeMike
Feb 12, 2008, 05:01 PM
I rather preferred El Reg's headline (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/12/blackberry_servers_down/):


:D

HAHAHA, awesome!

mdntcallr
Feb 15, 2008, 10:42 AM
Blackberry has hardly been a quality product over the last year and a half.

The main thing you want is reliability, currently, Blackberry isn't reliable.

Yes, they are reporting 2 major outages within the last 6 months. but, there has been service outages and delays on many more times than just this.

frequently there will be other smaller, un-reported outages, sometimes carrier specific, or sometimes when their systems got so bogged down that emails came through very delayed.

anyway you cut it, the main thing i want as a customer is reliability and good service.

RIM should be worried.
RIM should be very worried.

aristobrat
Feb 15, 2008, 11:23 AM
Palm's having some fun. Check out their web page. I guess they also ran that as a print ad in today's NY Times, too. :)

UCLA-Bruin
Feb 21, 2008, 04:51 PM
I got a $20 credit on my T-Mobile bill b/c of this...not too shabby.