The "Bring Back Translucent Menus" Thread

[kuwisdelu]

So all of the people who hated the translucent menu bar and the translucent menus got to whine until Apple gave in and gave us the option to turn off the translucency for the menu bar. But now the menus themselves are nearly opaque with no option to keep them as translucent as before? Okay, everyone who liked the translucency, do we get our turn to whine now? I want translucent menus :confused:

Anyone figure out a new Terminal command or way to change them back to the way they were before yet? Here's to hoping 10.5.3 restores translucent menus!

[Bern]

I really liked the translucent menus. Now Apple have changed it to opaque it looks dated to me.

[killmoms]

I didn't know the new "modern" was "bad UI design." :rolleyes:

[thesdx]

I really liked the translucent menus. Now Apple have changed it to opaque it looks dated to me.

Me too. Honestly, I could care less whether they're translucent or opaque, but I do think it looked better.

[sananda]

i haven't yet updated. i like the bar as it is for me now. unlike the far too busy dock distractingly reflecting windows.

[mach]

I too really liked the translucent menus, with the nice sort of frosted glass see-through look. The new ones look dated; I agree. Sad to see one of those nice little touches go.

[fsckminix6]

Bring Our Translucent Menus Back

[edtorious]

I thought you can just turn this on and off thru system preference under appearance:confused:

[Brianstorm91]

I thought you can just turn this on and off thru system preference under appearance:confused:

It's not on mine.

[kuwisdelu]

I thought you can just turn this on and off thru system preference under appearance:confused:

Nope. The option to change the translucency of the menu bar was just added in 10.5.2 and it's under Desktop/Screensaver. There's never been an option to change the translucency of the menus themselves.

[edtorious]

It's not on mine.

how about under screensaver? i'm not at home right now and I'm using my pc at work :rolleyes: now so I cannot be sure but I thought I was able to turn it on and off on my mac last night and I'm not sure if it's in the appearance or screensaver or wallpaper menu that you can check or uncheck on the bottom somewhere:confused:

[Brianstorm91]

On the homepage, click on the right-most picture in the 10.5.2 article and you see that there's a "translucent menu bar" option on the desktop window, but it's not present on mine.

[kuwisdelu]

how about under screensaver? i'm not at home right now and I'm using my pc at work :rolleyes: now so I cannot be sure but I thought I was able to turn it on and off on my mac last night and I'm not sure if it's in the appearance or screensaver or wallpaper menu that you can check or uncheck on the bottom somewhere:confused:

Under Desktop/Screensaver you can change whether the menu bar itself is translucent or not. But they increased the opacity over the menus themselves, but didn't add any option to keep them as translucent as before.

[edtorious]

Under Desktop/Screensaver you can change whether the menu bar itself is translucent or not. But they increased the opacity over the menus themselves, but didn't add any option to keep them as translucent as before.

How about recalibrating your display?, 'cause I found that after the 10.5.2 update and leopard graphics update, my LCD needed recalibrating, so I did that and I noticed a lot of improvements on my display, better than before. ;)

[Spievy]

I miss the translucent menus also.

[apfhex]

I liked the pre-10.5.2 menus as well. They're so opaque now you can barely see the transparency. Too white!

[~David]

Wtf? They're still translucent here (Yes, I'm on 10.5.2)

[Yaboze]

They are still translucent, it's just barely noticeable. :(

I would like a slider or toggle to have it the old way too.

[kuwisdelu]

Wtf? They're still translucent here (Yes, I'm on 10.5.2)

Unless you've managed to change them back somehow or it didn't change yours, they're not nearly as transparent as before. I know they're still translucent, but you have to look really closely to tell at all.

[MagicBoy]

I want the translucent menu's back. Please - someone must have a hack for this...

[Kilamite]

How about recalibrating your display?, 'cause I found that after the 10.5.2 update and leopard graphics update, my LCD needed recalibrating, so I did that and I noticed a lot of improvements on my display, better than before. ;)

Improvements? Such as...?

I did not notice colour definition change at all during the Graphics Update, nor did I need to recalibrate.

[kap91]

Another vote here for bringing back the previous level of translucency or better yet a check box or slider of some sorts. Not a big issue but I still find it aggravating.

[vandlism]

How is removing translucency an improvement? Seriously, the GUI people at Apple have multiple personalities - these changes are getting annoying. What happened to awesome translucency and glossy, glowing dialog buttons. Also, why does the "plus button" window widget look different than the others when the window is inactive. It has a harsh shadow/outline or something on the top of it. Messed up.

[Kilamite]

I like it as it is now (in 10.5.2). Still has a little transparency but much more sleek and elegant.

[killmoms]

How is removing translucency an improvement? Seriously, the GUI people at Apple have multiple personalities - these changes are getting annoying. What happened to awesome translucency and glossy, glowing dialog buttons. Also, why does the "plus button" window widget look different than the others when the window is inactive. It has a harsh shadow/outline or something on the top of it. Messed up.

Bescause excessive transparency impedes legibility, and the primary goal of a menu is to expose text-labeled commands to the user, so anything to improve legibility is good? I have the same criticism of Vista's horrendous title bars and translucent windows (the gadget pane is the worst offender).

[kuwisdelu]

Bescause excessive transparency impedes legibility, and the primary goal of a menu is to expose text-labeled commands to the user, so anything to improve legibility is good? I have the same criticism of Vista's horrendous title bars and translucent windows (the gadget pane is the worst offender).

People said the same thing of the translucent menu bar and Apple gave into them. They now have the option to turn the translucent menu bar off. But they made the menus themselves much more opaque without giving those of us who liked it the option of keeping them as translucent as before. :(

[scaredpoet]

Count me as one of those people who like the translucence of the menus. The translucence certainly wasn't THAT much to be confusing, but I guess it caused issues for some.

[Brianstorm91]

Can you turn this into a poll?

[vanmacguy]

I'm another one that liked it and is missing it.

Damn!

[kuwisdelu]

Can you turn this into a poll?

Poll added!

[clevin]

I suggested in another post, just put a slide bar in preference settings like linux does, everybody would be happy.

[TimJim]

Im running 10.5.2 and i have translucent menu bar option.

Heres some picture. The 2nd picture shows the option for translucent/not at the bottom.

[gamera~]

Menus have a simple task: present a list of options and commands as text for quick, easy access. They aren't meant for resting permanently on the screen like a window, just a second or two — thus legibility should absolutely come before aesthetics.

[QuarterSwede]

Menus have a simple task: present a list of options and commands as text for quick, easy access. They aren't meant for resting permanently on the screen like a window, just a second or two — thus legibility should absolutely come before aesthetics.
It was plenty legible before.

[JSchwage]

I didn't really like or dislike the more translucent context menus previous to 10.5.2. Though after doing the 10.5.2 update, I realize how much less distracting and easier the context menus are to read now.

Also, remember that the more options Apple adds to OS X, the more confusing it will make OS X, which is exactly what Apple doesn't want it to be. I'm sure there's probably some plist file you can edit to change the transparency of the menus. That's what I love about OS X. There aren't too many options in the GUI. But you can make lots of changes to OS X via the Terminal.

[kuwisdelu]

Im running 10.5.2 and i have translucent menu bar option.

Heres some picture. The 2nd picture shows the option for translucent/not at the bottom.

We're talking about the drop-down menus themselves, not the menu bar.

Menus have a simple task: present a list of options and commands as text for quick, easy access. They aren't meant for resting permanently on the screen like a window, just a second or two — thus legibility should absolutely come before aesthetics.

But what about those of us who didn't have a problem with the legibility? Then shouldn't they be as aesthetic as they can be, too, if legibility isn't an issue for some of us? If you're that worried about legibility, Apple can always keep near-opaque the default option and just add an option to turn translucency on or off like they did for the menu bar.

[psychofreak]

It was plenty legible before.

Not enough in all situations, it was one thing I was unhappy about with Leopard.

[Spievy]

I had no problems reading the text in the pull down menus.

[kuwisdelu]

Also, remember that the more options Apple adds to OS X, the more confusing it will make OS X, which is exactly what Apple doesn't want it to be. I'm sure there's probably some plist file you can edit to change the transparency of the menus. That's what I love about OS X. There aren't too many options in the GUI. But you can make lots of changes to OS X via the Terminal.

I would have argued this before, but seeing as they gave into the whining about the menu bar's translucency, I'd think they'd at least allow for the menus to stay transparent to match it or to turn it off. It's very unaesthetic to me to have a translucent menu bar and non-translucent menus, and I like my translucent menu bar. No one's found the correct .plist file to change and the old Terminal commands for it don't work anymore. Hopefully someone will find a new one.

[Spievy]

Hey I got an idea... Lets request they bring the :apple: menu back to the center of the screen.

[avalys]

Apple is not, and has never been about interface customization. Hell, they have never really been about any customization. I'm surprised they allowed you to turn off the translucent menubar. Apple does not want you to have to sit down and tinker with a bunch of options and sliders and percentages until you get everything just right. They want it to be set up perfectly and work right out of the box, so you can start using the computer.

There will never be a slider to control the transparency of the drop-down menus. And there will never be an option, either. It would be absurd and confusing.

If Apple including an option for everything some whiner wanted to work slightly differently, the System Preferences dialog would be roughly as complex as Microsoft Office.

If you want to dick around with every setting, install Linux.

[jeremy6044]

i had no problem reading it before. i also liked how they were translucent. seems like a step backwards to me.

[Brianstorm91]

Huh? The menus changed? 6 31.58%

Classic :D

[clevin]

Apple is not, and has never been about interface customization. Hell, they have never really been about any customization.
agreeI'm surprised they allowed you to turn off the translucent menubar. Apple does not want you to have to sit down and tinker with a bunch of options and sliders and percentages until you get everything just right. They want it to be set up perfectly and work right out of the box, so you can start using the computer.

There will never be a slider to control the transparency of the drop-down menus. And there will never be an option, either. It would be absurd and confusing.


not agree, options are absurd and confusing? please, don't belittle the intelligence of users. Each individual has their own preference, to force them into same style is truly absurd.

Work right out of box? last time I check, you still need manually install video player or codecs to play divx video. Nothing is absolutely right out of box. Give users options.

[kuwisdelu]

Apple is not, and has never been about interface customization. Hell, they have never really been about any customization. I'm surprised they allowed you to turn off the translucent menubar. Apple does not want you to have to sit down and tinker with a bunch of options and sliders and percentages until you get everything just right. They want it to be set up perfectly and work right out of the box, so you can start using the computer.

I've always agreed with this, but it just doesn't make sense to give the option of translucency on or off for the menu bar, but take away the translucency on the menus themselves. I didn't think Apple would give in to those who didn't like the translucency, but since they did, why did they take away the translucency in the menus instead of making that an option, too? Or why didn't they have the menus change to match the translucency of the menu bar? If they're going to go ahead change it around on every 10.5.x update depending on what people like or don't like, they may as well make it an option and shut everyone up.

[Brianstorm91]

Notice the lack of the option in my system preferences.

And yeah, I had to check the shortcut for screen print :o

[killmoms]

agree

not agree, options are absurd and confusing? please, don't belittle the intelligence of users. Each individual has their own preference, to force them into same style is truly absurd.

Then a Mac is not for them. This has nothing to do with belittling the intelligence of users—more options (especially for things as utterly trivial as menu translucency, for Pete's sake) ARE confusing for most users. I'm sure someone will find some plist preference somewhere, so the people who actually care can adjust it.

Ever wonder why Linux has never gained traction in the general desktop OS market? I'd bet dollars to donuts it's because it's confusing as hell.

[Fuzzy14]

Has anybody noticed that the translucency is still there for pop-up dialog boxes?

[kuwisdelu]

Has anybody noticed that the translucency is still there for pop-up dialog boxes?

Hmm, not all of them. I opened software update and it's transparent on mine, too, but then I tried to quit Safari and it gave me the "multiple tabs" dialog and there was no translucency. Interesting it's there for some of them, though.

[Kilamite]

Notice the lack of the option in my system preferences.

And yeah, I had to check the shortcut for screen print :o

Brianstorm91 - have you ever had the option for transparent menu bar? I thought some of the older Mac's didn't support it.


Has anybody noticed that the translucency is still there for pop-up dialog boxes?

Fuzzy14 - the translucency has been toned down, not removed. It was waaay to much before, now it is perfect to me.

[stainlessliquid]

I thought it was perfect before, now its so opaque that theres no point it in having any transparency. I think it looks worse now, its more of a mistake than an intention like the old transparency. One of the rules to good design is to not make half assed decisions, either make it look intentional or dont do it at all since it will just look like you messed up. The new menu's are bad design.

I would like to change it back, there was nothing wrong with the old transparency, it wasnt noticeable unless you looked for it and it did not reduce legibility at all (seriously, wtf people), it was very opaque and just the right amount of blur so that it was completely impossible to reduce legibility. Now its very difficult to even see that its transparent when looking for it, if you look very closely then there is a very faint showing of whats behind it and it reminds me more of monitor burn-in since its so extremely light and only apparent in high contrast areas.

They should have left it alone, I dont remember a single person bitching about it like they were the transparent menu BAR and 3d dock (I cant believe they didnt include an option to turn this off but they messed with menu transparency). As it is right now it should just be 100% opaque, its using up system resources for crap you cant even see.

[MarlboroLite]

So has anyone found a hack to bring back the pre .2 menus back?

I had zero legibility issues with the transparent menus and in fact I loved them. I hate it now--the menu bar itself is still pretty translucent but the drop down menus are a joke, there's barely anything there...it's not "subtle" it's 90% opaque....what's the point in even describing it as translucent when it barely is. :confused: Please Apple bring back REAL transparency!!!! You got it right the first time!!!

[xraydoc]

I dunno. While they weren't bad in 10.5.0, I think they look a little better now. Brighter... better contrast. But I've also used the new option to turn off the menu bar translucency.

[iMpathetic]

I am too lazy to update, so this issue does not affect me:cool:

But, I do kinda like the ol' translucent menus. There, I said it.

[hempcamp]

Definition of Apple, Inc: Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I like the opaque drop-downs better. I think they only did a high transparency initially to show off the graphics processing abilities of OS X. Kind of like all the "new features" of Vista.

--Chris

[MarlboroLite]

Definition of Apple, Inc: Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I like the opaque drop-downs better. I think they only did a high transparency initially to show off the graphics processing abilities of OS X. Kind of like all the "new features" of Vista.

--Chris

Well it doesn't have to be this way. Ok people complained about it....they respond with fully opaque menus, great! But then they took away transparency for all intents and purposes....what they now describe as "transparent" barely is....just give people opaque or transparent, don't take away one to give to the other. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp!

[iFerd]

Although I had grown used to the almost transparent drop down menus, I was happy to see them return of better readability in the latest update. I agree with the few posters in this thread that readability is prime in this matter, and 10.5.2 improves that, at least for me.

[Bonsai1214]

i very much preferred it the way it was before. now you can't even notice it unless you look for it.

a slider should be implemented.

[bluedoggiant]

I don't care, I never even noticed in the first place:p

One thing that is ugly is the opaque menu bar, for a fact, turn it on, and its ugly.

[UMHurricanes34]

I agree.

I liked the transparent menus, and it's a shame that they took away the option completely.

I really can't even tell that they're "transparent" anymore. Looks 100% opaque to me.

[anjinha]

Although I perefered the old menus the new ones don't bother me much. But I do think that it's not consistent having a translucid menu bar and almost opaque menus. That's just not good design.

[BlakTornado]

not agree, options are absurd and confusing? please, don't belittle the intelligence of users. Each individual has their own preference, to force them into same style is truly absurd.

Exactly.

Apple is about thinking different. How can it force us into having computers that are exactly the same when they're also telling us to be completely different people?

Look at Windows. That has several different styles and user interface options. Macs have barely any. I'm not complaining - I like the Mac interface... but sometimes we need thing to be customizable.

I completely agree about the whole slider thing and that we should be able to set our own levels of transparency to fit our needs. And why not have an option for people to press a simple button in system prefs to turn the newer dock into the black one? Surely that would be safer than a terminal command.
Apple needs to get people switching over to Mac and it's not going to do it if potential switchers see people like ourselves complaining.

Really, I couldn't care less if the menus aren't transparent or not but it's just a nice touch to have. I'm not going to cry myself to sleep over it but I'm not thrilled by the decision Apple made to make them more solid... I just think there should be more customizability. Not like Linux-style but just basic little tweaks.
Sure it's not "Works out of the box" but these are things you want to play with when you get a new computer. When you get a new computer, you don't go "Hey, I better get on with some work" or whatever. You think "Wow! new computer! Time to fiddle around and see what it can do!" so that kinda stamps on the whole "IT STOPS TEH OUT OF TEh BOXNESSZZ" argument. And if people DO go "Hey, time to get on with work" then there's nothing stopping them from working with the defaults and playing around with settings when they have time to kill, is there?

[stainlessliquid]

It would have been much wiser to use opaque menus with the opaque menu bar turned on and transparent menus with the default menu bar.

I dont know what Apple was thinking, I imagine it was some programmer's decision to do this. I dont think a designer at Apple would think this looks better. Its something I would expect from Microsoft since they always let their programmers make design decisions which screws with the consistency.

I dont think Apple really listened. They gave the option to turn off the transparent menu bar but they ignored the biggest complaint by far: a switch to change from a 2d to 3d dock. There are dozens of programs out there to specifically do this, not nearly as many that mess with the menu bar. That should have sent a message to Apple. I dont recall anyone complaining about the menus. They have been like that since Tiger, no complaints. Why did they think they had to make it 98% opaque?

I do like the new grid view in stacks, doesnt look half assed anymore. Thats probably the only visual improvement in 10.5.2. (but it was another thing nobody complained about)

[bassism]

I'm surprised that Apple didn't foresee that, just like forcing people into the translucent menu bar caused a bunch of people to complain, forcing a bunch of people into nearly-opaque drop-downs would cause the other half of the people in the Mac community to complain.

Seriously, they realized that forcing that UI decision on people made them unhappy, and rectified it by providing an option, then did exactly the same thing in opposite.

[ltldrummerboy]

Calibrating my screen did not make a difference.

[durija]

I almost can't believe what I am reading. Are our lives so empty that we cnnot think of anything better to do with our time than to complain, endlessly, about the opacity of menus and our lack of control over that opacity? Seems pretty small on the total human scale. Many more important (at least to me) issues out there. i think it is worth thinking about redirecting some energy elsewhere.

[MarlboroLite]

Exactly.

Apple is about thinking different.

Sadly it hasn't been for a long time. They even dropped the slogan a few years ago....

[avalys]

Exactly.

Apple is about thinking different. How can it force us into having computers that are exactly the same when they're also telling us to be completely different people?


If you consider the level of transparency of the drop-down menus on your computer a primary factor in your individuality, you need to get a life.


Sure it's not "Works out of the box" but these are things you want to play with when you get a new computer. When you get a new computer, you don't go "Hey, I better get on with some work" or whatever. You think "Wow! new computer! Time to fiddle around and see what it can do!" so that kinda stamps on the whole "IT STOPS TEH OUT OF TEh BOXNESSZZ" argument. And if people DO go "Hey, time to get on with work" then there's nothing stopping them from working with the defaults and playing around with settings when they have time to kill, is there?
When you get a new computer, by and large, it can do everything your old one could, just faster. My PowerBook G4 has transparent menus too.

The problem with customization of the UI is that it forces the user to make decisions that the designer of the program should be making. In short, customizable UIs come from lazy developers. Apple should (and perhaps has) rely on their UI knowledge and figure out what the best transparency setting is. Making it a slider is equivalent to Apple saying "Screw it, we have no idea what the right setting is. You chumps can waste five minutes apiece figuring it out, we don't care."

This is the same for every option. If Apple gives you a choice between two Docks, it means they don't know which one is best, and they expect you to figure it out. Why the hell is that my job? I paid for the software expecting a good UI - I expect Apple to research their UI design, and present me with the optimal settings when I turn on the computer. I don't want to spend my time tinkering with it to discover the optimal settings for myself. I'm not trained in UI design. Maybe a transparent menu looks cool, but is actually not as readable, and can lead to eyestrain. Who the hell knows? Not me, and I don't want to have to know.

How many copies of Leopard did Apple sell? 2 million in the first weekend. Let's be conservative and say 4 million to date. Imagine if they included all kinds of ways to customize the appearance and behavior of the UI, like you propose. Imagine it takes the average person 10 minutes to find the optimal settings (that's a lowball estimate, since most people will never find the optimal settings, and over the course of their use of Leopard, might spend quite a bit more time messing with these options). That's 106 years of effort wasted, doing what Apple could have done in the first place.

I don't buy the argument that we are all individual, unique little creatures, and the optimal UI settings are different for all of us. We all might work differently, and prefer different UI layouts - but our visual systems all process data in the same way.

Now, whether they actually do put all the effort into UI design that I expect them to, is another question. They likely do not. But at least they are not giving in and making everything an option.

As someone else mentioned, that's one of the primary reasons why Linux on the desktop sucks so bad. Every time there is a hard decision to be made, the developers say "Who cares, we'll just make it an option!" Writing the extra code to implement the option is easier than thinking about what the right choice is.

[kuwisdelu]

It would have been much wiser to use opaque menus with the opaque menu bar turned on and transparent menus with the default menu bar.

I dont know what Apple was thinking, I imagine it was some programmer's decision to do this. I dont think a designer at Apple would think this looks better. Its something I would expect from Microsoft since they always let their programmers make design decisions which screws with the consistency.

I dont think Apple really listened. They gave the option to turn off the transparent menu bar but they ignored the biggest complaint by far: a switch to change from a 2d to 3d dock. There are dozens of programs out there to specifically do this, not nearly as many that mess with the menu bar. That should have sent a message to Apple. I dont recall anyone complaining about the menus. They have been like that since Tiger, no complaints. Why did they think they had to make it 98% opaque?

I do like the new grid view in stacks, doesnt look half assed anymore. Thats probably the only visual improvement in 10.5.2. (but it was another thing nobody complained about)

I agree exactly. I was expecting the translucent menu bar to imply translucent menus as well and switching the translucent menu bar off to turn off the translucent menus too. It makes perfect sense they would go together. I can't imagine why they'd do this.

Also agree on the grid view. Fan view was a little wanky, and list view isn't as usable for me, but I love grid view. I provides the functionality of fans while not trying as hard to be eye candy.

I almost can't believe what I am reading. Are our lives so empty that we cnnot think of anything better to do with our time than to complain, endlessly, about the opacity of menus and our lack of control over that opacity? Seems pretty small on the total human scale. Many more important (at least to me) issues out there. i think it is worth thinking about redirecting some energy elsewhere.

It's my only problem with 10.5.2. Is your life so empty you can't think of anything better to do than criticize what we choose to criticize in our operating system? In the total human scale, worrying about operating system at all is pretty silly. After all, why spend that $129 on Leopard when it could be going to fight world hunger? All the people who didn't like the translucent menu bar whined, too, so I think we're perfectly entitled to our chance at whining.

The problem with customization of the UI is that it forces the user to make decisions that the designer of the program should be making. In short, customizable UIs come from lazy developers. Apple should (and perhaps has) rely on their UI knowledge and figure out what the best transparency setting is. Making it a slider is equivalent to Apple saying "Screw it, we have no idea what the right setting is. You chumps can waste five minutes apiece figuring it out, we don't care."

This is the same for every option. If Apple gives you a choice between two Docks, it means they don't know which one is best, and they expect you to figure it out. Why the hell is that my job? I paid for the software expecting a good UI - I expect Apple to research their UI design, and present me with the optimal settings when I turn on the computer. I don't want to spend my time tinkering with it to discover the optimal settings for myself. I'm not trained in UI design. Maybe a transparent menu looks cool, but is actually not as readable, and can lead to eyestrain. Who the hell knows? Not me, and I don't want to have to know.

I don't think it would have to be like this at all. Personally, I don't really want a slider to choose transparency or something. I kind of agree that would be a mistake. But they provided an option to turn the translucency on the menu bar on or off, and all I want is an option to turn the translucency on the menus themselves on or off. Either that or sync it with the menu bar option. I don't care which. "On" or "off" isn't that big of a choice. Same goes for the 2D vs. 3D dock. After all, no one thinks that offering a choice between Blue vs. Graphite is the end of the world.

[paul.b.davis]

Notice the lack of the option in my system preferences.

And yeah, I had to check the shortcut for screen print :o

You are on PPC. I thought there was never a translucent menu bar on PPC macs (or some of them anyway)

[wilfried]

The problem with customization of the UI is that it forces the user to make decisions that the designer of the program should be making. In short, customizable UIs come from lazy developers. Apple should (and perhaps has) rely on their UI knowledge and figure out what the best transparency setting is. Making it a slider is equivalent to Apple saying "Screw it, we have no idea what the right setting is. You chumps can waste five minutes apiece figuring it out, we don't care."
...
I don't buy the argument that we are all individual, unique little creatures, and the optimal UI settings are different for all of us. We all might work differently, and prefer different UI layouts - but our visual systems all process data in the same way.

Now, whether they actually do put all the effort into UI design that I expect them to, is another question. They likely do not. But at least they are not giving in and making everything an option.


I agree insofar as I find all the griping, and gallons of spilled virtual ink over transparency humorous. I never much noticed much when it was there, and don't notice much now that it's gone. Indeed there are better things to worry about. However, you're reasoning is patently absurd. Say they give us a handful of sliders and buttons to change the look of the interface. You don't want to futz with the settings? Then don't. When you turn on the machine it's set to a default. If you can't be bothered, leave it alone, and leave it at Apple's "optimal." But if you you like to futz, and don't like their optimal, then futz away. Started futzing, and decide it's too much trouble? Just put everything back to where it was (a simple "set to default" button would do it), and you're back to where you started.

No, there is no single "optimal." There are different needs, and different tastes, and yes, different eyeballs. I may value pretty over usable. I know people who set things to the most bizarre, garish colors possible, just cause it amuses them. Or I may want stark black on brilliant white, to the point where it would make others' eyes hurt, cause my eyes aren't as sharp as they used to be. I suppose you want Ford to decide the optimal color for your car. Henry did you know. He said of the Model T, you can get it in any color you want, as long as it's black. So Ford did his job by making one model in one color, and all the auto manufacturers these days with their myriad options are just being lazy? Please.

And what makes you think there's a magic formula for deciding exactly the right appearance for the interface? You don't think there's subjective judgement, and taste, involved in Apple's decisions? Was the translucent menu so optimal? Or the not so translucent one? What about the menu bar? Or the glossy screen? Or the 3D dock? Or stacks? And if the optimal is so optimal, why is everyone arguing? Everything is a design choice. How much transparency is a choice. Giving too many options is a choice, as is giving none at all. Giving options for everything isn't necessarily the right choice, but locking everything down to exactly one isn't either.

So, I just spilled yet more ink, and wasted a lot more time than I would have playing with sliders. But how to waste my time is my choice after all.

[gr8tfly]

No, I haven't read through the entire thread yet - but:

They aren't opaque - they are less transparent. I'll say they went a bit further to opaque than the change list seemed to indicate, but they are still transparent.

There were many times where the pre-10.5.2 transparency affected readability.

[Shredster00]

Does anybody have some screen shots to compare the old vs new? I don't have Leopard (or a Mac) yet, waiting for the new MBP's.

[davidjearly]

No, I haven't read through the entire thread yet - but:

They aren't opaque - they are less transparent. I'll say they went a bit further to opaque than the change list seemed to indicate, but they are still transparent.

There were many times where the pre-10.5.2 transparency affected readability IMO.

Fixed.

Despite not caring one way or the other, legibility was never impacted by more transparent menus for me.

[MattyP30]

i actually LOL'd when i saw this thread title!!

[gr8tfly]

Fixed.

Despite not caring one way or the other, I legibility was never impacted by more transparent menus for me.

Thanks for the edit....

Evidently, it wasn't only IMO.

But, actually, I could have lived with it either way. I'm glad Apple listened to the critiques anyway - what I couldn't live with, was the transparent menu bar.

[stainlessliquid]

I think the reason I dont like the new ones is that they are just too bright. Menus kind of glare at me now. With the opacity lower they were less white, with them higher it jacked up the original design's intentions. Which leads me to further believe that this was a programmer meddling with design without the designer's consent. They need to make the menu shade a darker color if they are going to increase opacity, the original color was surely adjusted until it looked right at that specific opacity (or vice versa), changing the opacity requires a whole new shade so it doesnt stick out like a sore thumb.

[kuwisdelu]

I think the reason I dont like the new ones is that they are just too bright. Menus kind of glare at me now. With the opacity lower they were less white, with them higher it jacked up the original design's intentions. Which leads me to further believe that this was a programmer meddling with design without the designer's consent. They need to make the menu shade a darker color if they are going to increase opacity, the original color was surely adjusted until it looked right at that specific opacity (or vice versa), changing the opacity requires a whole new shade so it doesnt stick out like a sore thumb.

I see what you mean. That's just how I see it. They're too bright against the rest of my screen and call too much attention to themselves.

[Virgil-TB2]

Unless you've managed to change them back somehow or it didn't change yours, they're not nearly as transparent as before. I know they're still translucent, but you have to look really closely to tell at all.While I generally agree with the idea that there should be a slider for setting this sort of thing, I *do* think that people are going a bit overboard here.

The difference in transparency between 10.5.1 and 10.5.2 is not that big at all, it's not even noticeable for most users. The difference between either and the betas is a lot more noticeable however.

What surprises me more is that the gigantic increase in the drop shadow (which looks rather horrible IMO), between Leopard and Tiger has not even been a topic of conversation, let alone complaint. The shadow looks quite "muddy" now in a similar way to how the menu transparency modifies what's underneath. I think this is much more "jarring" to the eye and is "in your face" as an interface issue far more than whether the menus use 22% or 25% as their transparency.

Speaking as someone with discerning taste and excellent vision, it would be nice if we had two sliders (transparency and blurriness), for the menus and the shadows IMO.

[Virgil-TB2]

Sadly it hasn't been for a long time. They even dropped the slogan a few years ago....Technically Apple *is* "thinking different(ly)" on this one.

The more common position (based on the ubiquity of Windows and Linux installs), is to provide the user with the ability to customise almost every aspect of the UI in terms of cosmetics. Themes are also available for those operating systems from multiple vendors, as well as from the OS designers themselves.

Also, almost every stupid program made by every half-assed programmer out there is "skin-able" lately, (or considered to be less valuable somehow if it is not.)

Apple stands alone in resisting this trend and thus is definitely "Thinking Different(ly)." ;)

[kuwisdelu]

While I generally agree with the idea that there should be a slider for setting this sort of thing, I *do* think that people are going a bit overboard here.

The difference in transparency between 10.5.1 and 10.5.2 is not that big at all, it's not even noticeable for most users. The difference between either and the betas is a lot more noticeable however.

It's definitely noticeable for me. It's hardly translucent at all, now. Went more from .63 to .9 in opacity. I have to look at my screen from a really strange angle to notice at all. Personally, I don't even want a slider. Just an "on" and "off" option.

[clevin]

Apple stands alone in resisting this trend and thus is definitely "Thinking Different(ly)." ;)

lack of options should never been glorified. "think different", lol, didn't see apple resists anything when comes down to allow windows run on a mac!, or brag about M$ office can run on mac. or give users a half-hearted pathbar.

[apfhex]

I see what you mean. That's just how I see it. They're too bright against the rest of my screen and call too much attention to themselves.
Exactly. I can live with it, I just thought the more transparent menus looked a lot better and weren't so bright. I'd even be pretty happy with something half-way in-between the new look and the old.

What surprises me more is that the gigantic increase in the drop shadow
Surprises me too. But! Before I used Leopard, I thought the new shadows looked horrible. Once I actually used it though, I found them surprisingly nice.

Apple stands alone in resisting this trend and thus is definitely "Thinking Different(ly)." ;)
Yup, and it's good they're not bloating the OS with too many options, but maybe a on/off setting like they did with the menu bar would be a better solution in this case? (and I really think the settings should be under Appearance, it's not obvious to look under Desktop & Screen Saver)

[kuwisdelu]

Yup, and it's good they're not bloating the OS with too many options, but maybe a on/off setting like they did with the menu bar would be a better solution in this case? (and I really think the settings should be under Appearance, it's not obvious to look under Desktop & Screen Saver)

This is what I was expecting. As cool as a slider would be, I do think that would be a bit too confusing to find as good a translucency setting on our own. I'd like Apple to take care of that for me, and just give me the option to turn it on or off. That's not too needy, is it? They gave it to the people who wanted their precious opaque menu bar back. Why can't we get a translucent menu button? Or at least sync it with the menu bar so they don't clash. I'm tempted sometimes to change my menu bar to opaque just so it doesn't clash with the new menus as much, but I like its translucency too much to do that.

And yes, it really should be under "Appearance." I agree with the idea that it was some programmers addressing people's complaints without bothering to consult anyone in the design department...

[TheSpaz]

Okay guys, I'm back.. I was forced to take a break because I got banned for a few days. Anyways, I tried fiddling around with system files and came very close to hosing my System but its back again. Still no cure for the bright menus... I hate them.

[Chromako]

meh. tis kinda funny how we make a big deal about stuff but, so what? As long as it doesn't run our lives...

Anyway... I want my translucent menus back, Apple! And without the translucent menu bar. I had a white desktop and the combo with the shadows made it look idiotic. bah. I like to futz around with my compy. That's what makes it mine! and while you're at it, Apple, could we have some other colours besides graphite and blue?

[kuwisdelu]

Okay guys, I'm back.. I was forced to take a break because I got banned for a few days. Anyways, I tried fiddling around with system files and came very close to hosing my System but its back again. Still no cure for the bright menus... I hate them.

Glad to hear you survived it. Sorry to hear you didn't find anything.
:apple:

[kuwisdelu]

Has anyone found any Terminal commands or the proper .plist file that will bring back our translucent menus (if we so desire)? Sorry, but these near-opaque drop-down menus are driving me mad!

[callmemike20]

If vista can have everything transparent, then so can we.

[HLdan]

i haven't yet updated. i like the bar as it is for me now. unlike the far too busy dock distractingly reflecting windows.

Oh the dock is not distracting, you don't look down at it while you are working. :rolleyes:

[Quillz]

This is kind of a stupid thread, as the drop-down menus are still transparent, just less than before. This was intentional and something that Apple is very likely not to change. Yes, a setting would be nice, but it goes against Apple's philosophy of simplicity, and thus will likely never happen.

[Quillz]

If vista can have everything transparent, then so can we.
Transparency for the sake of it isn't necessary a good thing. Vista's is well done, I think, but look at all the new HUD mods that are poisoning Leopard applications. Making everything HUD doesn't work, and thus is an example of transparency gone overboard.

[kuwisdelu]

This is kind of a stupid thread, as the drop-down menus are still transparent, just less than before. This was intentional and something that Apple is very likely not to change. Yes, a setting would be nice, but it goes against Apple's philosophy of simplicity, and thus will likely never happen.

The people who wanted the ability to turn off the menu bar transparency got their option, so it makes sense that we should get one, too. And they're much less translucent than before, although this depends on what kind of screen you're using. On my MacBook, they have about 98% opacity (I compared my menu's opacity levels to ones I experimented with in GIMP).

[Quillz]

The people who wanted the ability to turn off the menu bar transparency got their option, so it makes sense that we should get one, too. And they're much less translucent than before, although this depends on what kind of screen you're using. On my MacBook, they have about 98% opacity (I compared my menu's opacity levels to ones I experimented with in GIMP).
But the problem is that people simply wanted the menu bar one way or the other. You certainly cannot please the drop-down menu fanatics. Say Apple does give us an option, there will immediately be complaints because it uses radio buttons instead of a slider. Or vice versa. And then on top of that, people will complain that the available choices are either too much or too little.

There's just no pleasing people, and this is why Apple won't change their ways. They changed them once for the sake of usability, they aren't going to do it again unless there is a very good reason.

Personally, I do agree that the menus are brighter and more opaque than before, but does it really matter? It's hardly noticeable, I think, no better or worse than Tiger. The menus are certainly no less readable than before, and at the end of the day, that's what a menu is designed to do. To present options that are clear, concise and readable. The new menus succeed in doing just that, can't we just leave well enough alone?

[kuwisdelu]

But the problem is that people simply wanted the menu bar one way or the other. You certainly cannot please the drop-down menu fanatics. Say Apple does give us an option, there will immediately be complaints because it uses radio buttons instead of a slider. Or vice versa. And then on top of that, people will complain that the available choices are either too much or too little.

I think those who want a slider would be satisfied by an "on" or "off" option. After all, in 10.5.1 you only heard "I want opacity!" but never "I want even MORE translucency!" No one's seemed to mind the lack of a slider for the menu bar.

Personally, I do agree that the menus are brighter and more opaque than before, but does it really matter? It's hardly noticeable, I think, no better or worse than Tiger. The menus are certainly no less readable than before, and at the end of the day, that's what a menu is designed to do. To present options that are clear, concise and readable. The new menus succeed in doing just that, can't we just leave well enough alone?

Back when I was using Tiger, and I first heard about the translucent menus in Leopard, it was one of those small things that I was looking forward that would make my computing experience just a little more pleasant. And it was more pleasant. The same way that I like my translucent menu bar and it makes my OS X experience more enjoyable. Now they've been taken away because of a few complaints about usability that never impacted me, even though Apple clearly originally thought it was a good idea. I just want my menus back. Is that so much to ask?

[Quillz]

I think those who want a slider would be satisfied by an "on" or "off" option. After all, in 10.5.1 you only heard "I want opacity!" but never "I want even MORE translucency!" No one's seemed to mind the lack of a slider for the menu bar.



Back when I was using Tiger, and I first heard about the translucent menus in Leopard, it was one of those small things that I was looking forward that would make my computing experience just a little more pleasant. And it was more pleasant. The same way that I like my translucent menu bar and it makes my OS X experience more enjoyable. Now they've been taken away because of a few complaints about usability that never impacted me, even though Apple clearly originally thought it was a good idea. I just want my menus back. Is that so much to ask?But don't forget that we still have transparent menus, so the people that are complaining right now still have yet to see what a truly opaque menu may look like.

[kuwisdelu]

But don't forget that we still have transparent menus, so the people that are complaining right now still have yet to see what a truly opaque menu may look like.

...my post above:

The people who wanted the ability to turn off the menu bar transparency got their option, so it makes sense that we should get one, too. And they're much less translucent than before, although this depends on what kind of screen you're using. On my MacBook, they have about 98% opacity (I compared my menu's opacity levels to ones I experimented with in GIMP).

[mrat93]

Mine still looks normal?

[kuwisdelu]

Mine still looks normal?

The drop-down menus, not the menu bar. :D

[Fiasco]

I'm for translucent menus. Having an option so users can decide if they want translucency or not on their system would be a good idea.

[PJF13]

Here is a co-worker's MacBook screenshot before the update

[PJF13]

and now the screenshot of after the update

[DukeofAnkh]

Transparent options for all! And a few other options wouldn't hurt either. No one's forcing you to change from the default if you can't be bothered.

Actually, I will say that at first I thought the original menus were a bit much but I got used to them and I find I prefer them to the 10.5.2 ones. I agree with whoever said that more transparent menus should go with the more transparent menu bar, if they don't want to complicate the issue too much.

[Cabron]

easy:

re-made the whole appearence prefpane with all customization options what we can do.

options for: dock, status bar, menu bars

[esXXI]

10.x.x -> 10.5: People whine about the menus being too transparent and having "vista blur".

10.5.1 -> 10.5.2: People whine that Apple change them back to higher opacity.

Conclusion: :apple: Unable to win.

Solution: People need to find more important things to whine about.

[Quillz]

10.x.x -> 10.5: People whine about the menus being too transparent and having "vista blur".

10.5.1 -> 10.5.2: People whine that Apple change them back to higher opacity.

Conclusion: :apple: Unable to win.

Solution: People need to find more important things to whine about.
Exactly, especially when the changes are so minor that most people don't even notice. Everyone here complaining probably makes up the 0.5% of people worldwide who have cared about this enough to even notice the change.

Really, this is just complaining for the sake of complaining, it makes people feel important.

[kuwisdelu]

10.x.x -> 10.5: People whine about the menus being too transparent and having "vista blur".

10.5.1 -> 10.5.2: People whine that Apple change them back to higher opacity.

Conclusion: :apple: Unable to win.

Solution: People need to find more important things to whine about.

No, the solution was quite simple. Most of the people before were whining about the translucent menu bar, not the menus. Apple gave them the option of turning it off, while those of us who liked it kept it on, and if Apple decided to mess with the translucency too by effectively turning it off (yes, I know it's still there, but really, it's next to impossible to notice it at all) then what would have made the most sense is to put that as an option, too. It makes no sense at all to make one an option and flat-out change the other when someone people preferred it the original way.

Exactly, especially when the changes are so minor that most people don't even notice. Everyone here complaining probably makes up the 0.5% of people worldwide who have cared about this enough to even notice the change.

Really, this is just complaining for the sake of complaining, it makes people feel important.

It's not complaining for the sake of complaining. There were plenty of people who had other problems before the update complaining about the menu bar because it legitimately bothered them. Why is it complaining for the sake of complaining when an aspect of the GUI--one which Apple obviously liked in the first place but then gave into peoples' complaints--legitimately bothers us? Not to mention that if the other 99.5% of the people won't notice, then they didn't have a problem with the translucency, and thus there was no reason to change it in the first place.

[Dave00]

I like the update. Much more readable. This was especially noticeable with a menu drop-down over text or contrasting backgrounds. When you got a drop-down over a floating menu, for instance, it was much harder to read.

I've posted some screenshots pre and post update in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=436265)

Dave

[kuwisdelu]

I like the update. Much more readable. This was especially noticeable with a menu drop-down over text or contrasting backgrounds. When you got a drop-down over a floating menu, for instance, it was much harder to read.

I've posted some screenshots pre and post update in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=436265)

Dave

I looked at your pictures and almost posted with "Looks great that the menus are better-sized, but it's too bad they took away the translucency--they look so much better in the before-shots" but then i decided to keep my desires over in this thread. Like was said before, many of us never had a problem with the translucency. By the way, your pictures are showing the little question mark box and no longer loading when I went to check again. :confused:

[ingenious]

Notice the lack of the option in my system preferences.

And yeah, I had to check the shortcut for screen print :o

It's because you're using a 12" PowerBook. Their graphics cards aren't Core Image capable...

[ingenious]

You are on PPC. I thought there was never a translucent menu bar on PPC macs (or some of them anyway)

On older, non Core Graphics-capable ones.

[kuwisdelu]

Despite it being called "eye candy" and "aesthetics," I found the translucency more subtle. The opacity level of it now makes them seem as if they're trying to "win" the focus of the screen, and force you to focus on the menus, which isn't subtle at all. Before, with the translucency, the menus didn't try to be any more than a member tool of the application, and the translucency reflected this, and didn't take away too much focus from the application, instead simply allowing one to focus on what they were trying to use the menus to accomplish for that application rather than the menus themselves.

[iSamurai]

they're trying not to copy vista by making it non translucent. this is so ugly now. they should have an opacity chooser to set the transparency-ness just like vista (for once vista is better than mac).

[Beric]

Seriously,

Huh? The menus changed?

I had no idea. Menus are the least of my worries when I have my wireless dropout to think about.

[x86isslow]

It's because you're using a 12" PowerBook. Their graphics cards aren't Core Image capable...

10.2 had translucency on waay older machineshttp://reviews.cnet.com/i/so/pc/ji_20324675_20324676_pc_01.gif

[cbrain]

I liked the ones in 10.5.1 but I think the option to choose either would be best.

[TheReef]

I've noticed the sheet windows are as still transparent as the old menus were:

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4309/picture1mj1.png

I personally like them more transparent, any terminal hacks?

[esXXI]

No, the solution was quite simple. Most of the people before were whining about the translucent menu bar, not the menus. Apple gave them the option of turning it off, while those of us who liked it kept it on, and if Apple decided to mess with the translucency too by effectively turning it off (yes, I know it's still there, but really, it's next to impossible to notice it at all) then what would have made the most sense is to put that as an option, too. It makes no sense at all to make one an option and flat-out change the other when someone people preferred it the original way.

No, the reason people complained about the menubar was because it lowered readability and was nothing more than a "me-too" of Vista's effects. People were complaining about the menus, exactly how I stated. They called them harder to read, and coupled with 'lame vista blur'. Of course, now they've changed it, people always jumps on the bandwagon of "Oh it's the wrong thing! Apple doesn't do what we want! The sky is falling!" which happens every time people decide they know how to manage OS X better than them.

Arguing for customizability is all well and dandy but as a previous poster said, for the most part it adds nothing but confusion to new users. It doesn't matter anyway, most people will have forgotten about the whole thing by 10.5.4, and moved on to arguing about the next inane thing (MBA will never sell! Why is there no xMac?! etc).

[PowerFullMac]

Hey, I just noticed! Damn you Apple!

[hugodrax]

Translucent menu was stupid. I mean what is the point of it except decreasing readability. I am glad its back to normal. Vista offers more of that though.

[TheSpaz]

No, the reason people complained about the menubar was because it lowered readability and was nothing more than a "me-too" of Vista's effects. People were complaining about the menus, exactly how I stated. They called them harder to read, and coupled with 'lame vista blur'. Of course, now they've changed it, people always jumps on the bandwagon of "Oh it's the wrong thing! Apple doesn't do what we want! The sky is falling!" which happens every time people decide they know how to manage OS X better than them.

Arguing for customizability is all well and dandy but as a previous poster said, for the most part it adds nothing but confusion to new users. It doesn't matter anyway, most people will have forgotten about the whole thing by 10.5.4, and moved on to arguing about the next inane thing (MBA will never sell! Why is there no xMac?! etc).

What's confusing is when they give us something.... then we get used to it... then they take it away. That is the part that is confusing. At first, I didn't like the transparent menu bar but, I've gotten used to it.... and now I prefer it to the opaque one... strange. I always liked the more translucent menus and now they've taken that away from us with no options for the people who PREFERRED IT.

It's a question about taste. I never found it unusable.

[kuwisdelu]

No, the reason people complained about the menubar was because it lowered readability and was nothing more than a "me-too" of Vista's effects. People were complaining about the menus, exactly how I stated. They called them harder to read, and coupled with 'lame vista blur'. Of course, now they've changed it, people always jumps on the bandwagon of "Oh it's the wrong thing! Apple doesn't do what we want! The sky is falling!" which happens every time people decide they know how to manage OS X better than them.

Arguing for customizability is all well and dandy but as a previous poster said, for the most part it adds nothing but confusion to new users. It doesn't matter anyway, most people will have forgotten about the whole thing by 10.5.4, and moved on to arguing about the next inane thing (MBA will never sell! Why is there no xMac?! etc).

There's no bandwagon, and there's no one saying they know how to manage OS X better than Apple. Apple was the one that originally implemented the translucent menus, and really it's the people who wanted the opacity that are saying they know how to manage OS X better. I liked the translucency, and never found it harder to read. In fact, in another thread, I explained just how the translucency could even be very useful for some of us. Back in 10.5.1 I wanted the whiners to get their OPTION opaque menu bar so they could be happy. They got it, and they are happy. I was never expecting that it would mean losing translucent menus, otherwise I would have been against the idea back in 10.5.1. It makes no sense to make one an option and the other not. Why are you so against us getting the option to have our translucent menus again?

[TheSpaz]

There's no bandwagon, and there's no one saying they know how to manage OS X better than Apple. Apple was the one that originally implemented the translucent menus, and really it's the people who wanted the opacity that are saying they know how to manage OS X better. I liked the translucency, and never found it harder to read. In fact, in another thread, I explained just how the translucency could even be very useful for some of us. Back in 10.5.1 I wanted the whiners to get their OPTION opaque menu bar so they could be happy. They got it, and they are happy. I was never expecting that it would mean losing translucent menus, otherwise I would have been against the idea back in 10.5.1. It makes no sense to make one an option and the other not. Why are you so against us getting the option to have our translucent menus again?

IT SUCKS that they force this stuff on us. They give us some things... and they take some away... that's crap. If they ship an OS with certain "features" I don't think they should take them away in point upgrades. And before anyone tells me not to upgrade, I want the bug fixes just like everyone else, so it's either -- stay in a buggy version of the OS just for cosmetics... or upgrade and be reminded of how terrible the menus look now every time I click one.

[kuwisdelu]

IT SUCKS that they force this stuff on us. They give us some things... and they take some away... that's crap. If they ship an OS with certain "features" I don't think they should take them away in point upgrades. And before anyone tells me not to upgrade, I want the bug fixes just like everyone else, so it's either -- stay in a buggy version of the OS just for cosmetics... or upgrade and be reminded of how terrible the menus look now every time I click one.

This was just how I felt. It felt terrible saying goodbye to the translucent menus, but I needed X11 to work, which 10.5.2 promised (and it does work now), so I had no choice but upgrade. I just want my menus how they were...

Still no Terminal command?

[TheSpaz]

This was just how I felt. It felt terrible saying goodbye to the translucent menus, but I needed X11 to work, which 10.5.2 promised (and it does work now), so I had no choice but upgrade. I just want my menus how they were...

Still no Terminal command?

It's probably hard-coded into the OS

[HLdan]

Translucent menu was stupid. I mean what is the point of it except decreasing readability. I am glad its back to normal. Vista offers more of that though.

You need Windows 95.:p

According to you what's the point of having a nice UI at all??? As far as you're concerned we all may as well be using the same GUI as we did back when it was System 7 or Windows 3.1 as long as the computers run the apps.

Damn dude wake up please???? Today computers are a lot more than just about about sitting to a desk with a pinstripe suit on and glasses and with a boring haircut just doing spreadsheets all day.
We use computers for multimedia and fun and having an OS with a GUI that's looks more futuristic makes the experience all worthwhile.

How old are you?? You must be one of those conservatives with grey hair and a couple of lines on the face that won't give in to change.:p

[kuwisdelu]

You need Windows 95.:p

According to you what's the point of having a nice UI at all??? As far as you're concerned we all may as well be using the same GUI as we did back when it was System 7 or Windows 3.1 as long as the computers run the apps.

Damn dude wake up please???? Today computers are a lot more than just about about sitting to a desk with a pinstripe suit on and glasses and with a boring haircut just doing spreadsheets all day.
We use computers for multimedia and fun and having an OS with a GUI that's looks more futuristic makes the experience all worthwhile.

How old are you?? You must be one of those conservatives with grey hair and a couple of lines on the face that won't give in to change.:p

That may or may not be worded a little harshly, but you're very right. Part of the reasons I came over to Macs in the first place is aesthetics. And in a world where aesthetics really suffers on otherwise good computers (Thinkpads...), that's a really, really major plus for me and lots of people. Mac OS X doesn't just offer a great, functional OS, but offers great aesthetics that go along with the experience.

[TheSpaz]

That may or may not be worded a little harshly, but you're very right. Part of the reasons I came over to Macs in the first place is aesthetics. And in a world where aesthetics really suffers on otherwise good computers (Thinkpads...), that's a really, really major plus for me and lots of people. Mac OS X doesn't just offer a great, functional OS, but offers great aesthetics that go along with the experience.

Yeah, it's about the overall experience... the looks as well as the brains... For some reason the menus just look pure white to me and the contrast makes me want to squint somewhat... it's just like... BAM! MENU!!! IN YOUR FACE... but, before it was more subtle... I had a little bit of color under it and it wasn't distracting... it was actually kind of calming and soothing.

[PaThKu]

I hate it too. I have yet to finish reading all 6 pages of this thread. So if there is a solution, I apologize for saying

SOMEONE FIX THIS

[kuwisdelu]

I hate it too. I have yet to finish reading all 6 pages of this thread. So if there is a solution, I apologize for saying

SOMEONE FIX THIS

Sadly there is no solution yet :( I'm not quite well-enough versed in Unix to be a Terminal guru yet, and I can't find any proper .plist for it. Hopefully someone smarter with OS X than us can find a way.

[Sirus The Virus]

How about recalibrating your display?, 'cause I found that after the 10.5.2 update and leopard graphics update, my LCD needed recalibrating, so I did that and I noticed a lot of improvements on my display, better than before. ;)

How about not using blue as a font color....

I don't mind the opaque menus, but I like the translucent a little more, and would like the option back.

[kap91]

I don't know if this has been posted or not but it seems to me that the quickest and most reliable way of having the menus changed back (other than a hack of some kind) is to email Apple. If everyone voiced their concerns to Apple through the official means we might have a higher chance of getting it changed versus the hope that Apple will see this discussion and decide to change it. (Although it is obvious that Apple many times reads this and other forums.) So I say we should all go to. www.apple.com/feedback and tell them what we think.

[Pees330]

The translucency never bothered me one way or another. However, I do agree that if there is going to be an option for the menu bar, then the menus should have the option as well. What's another checkbox to Apple.

[DesignerOnMac]

Me too. Honestly, I could care less whether they're translucent or opaque, but I do think it looked better.

My menu bar was transparent before the latest upgrade to the OS and has not changed!

So what am I missing? lol!:rolleyes:

[kuwisdelu]

My menu bar was transparent before the latest upgrade to the OS and has not changed!

So what am I missing? lol!:rolleyes:

Not the menu bar, the menus themselves.

[TheSpaz]

My menu bar was transparent before the latest upgrade to the OS and has not changed!

So what am I missing? lol!:rolleyes:

Wow. You're... Wow.

[mbpcron]

Must ... stop ... reading ... this ... endlessssssssssssss. Ahhhhhhhhhh !

[kuwisdelu]

Must ... stop ... reading ... this ... endlessssssssssssss. Ahhhhhhhhhh !

I'm confused. Is someone tying you down and forcing you to read this thread? With a gun to your head? You poor man! ;)

[kuwisdelu]

I don't know if this has been posted or not but it seems to me that the quickest and most reliable way of having the menus changed back (other than a hack of some kind) is to email Apple. If everyone voiced their concerns to Apple through the official means we might have a higher chance of getting it changed versus the hope that Apple will see this discussion and decide to change it. (Although it is obvious that Apple many times reads this and other forums.) So I say we should all go to. www.apple.com/feedback and tell them what we think.

Thanks for that link. I sent them my feedback :)

In the mean time, does anyone know of any Terminal hacks yet? These opaque menus are really bugging me.

[TheSpaz]

Thanks for that link. I sent them my feedback :)

In the mean time, does anyone know of any Terminal hacks yet? These opaque menus are really bugging me.

I've been keeping an eye out for a hack on macosxhints.com ... nothing yet. You could always downgrade to 10.5.1 with Time Machine and extract the 10.5.2 Dock and see if that works.

[kuwisdelu]

Okay, 10.5.2's been out a while. Still no fixes for the opaque menus? :confused:

Oh aesthetics, where art thou?

:(

[TheSpaz]

Okay, 10.5.2's been out a while. Still no fixes for the opaque menus? :confused:

Oh aesthetics, where art thou?

:(

It seems like the people who want it back are more than the people who like it the way it is now.

[wallaby]

Threads like this are the reason I'm happy I'm staying with Tiger.

[ibeetle]

I liked the translucent menu's. I filed my complaint. Unfortunately sense we are just users and not IDG publication magazine editors or New York Times technology bloggers I doubt Apple will listen.

In case you missed it. You can file your complaint at:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html/

[macrem]

I liked the translucent menu's. I filed my complaint.
Thanks for link, I complained too and asked someone to help in the Apple discussion forum.

The survey is telling: "I preferred the translucent menus back in 10.5.1 and would like the option back." wins hands down.

All we need is for someone at Apple to listen or someone to figure out a way to change it back.

Has anyone tried to change the menu translucency back and made progress?

[kuwisdelu]

Sadly, nothing yet, I think. If enough people let Apple know it's being missed, though, we may see it in 10.5.3.

[macrem]

Before I bought Leopard, the menus were something I specifically checked out and I really like the translucent blur. Then I bought Leopard.

If you buy a new black car, then later take it back for its first tune up and they paint it white for you explaining that the car is now more visible and safer, would you be happy??

[kuwisdelu]

Before I bought Leopard, the menus were something I specifically checked out and I really like the translucent blur. Then I bought Leopard.

If you buy a new black car, then later take it back for its first tune up and they paint it white for you explaining that the car is now more visible and safer, would you be happy??

This is exactly how I felt. The translucent menus were one of those little things I was looking forward to in Leopard that--while perhaps not making a very large difference--would just make things slightly more enjoyable. Like milk and cookies on Christmas. And just shortly after I got Leopard, it's gone. :(

[TheSpaz]

This is exactly how I felt. The translucent menus were one of those little things I was looking forward to in Leopard that--while perhaps not making a very large difference--would just make things slightly more enjoyable. Like milk and cookies on Christmas. And just shortly after I got Leopard, it's gone. :(

You seem to be almost exactly like me. We should be best friends or something!

[macrem]

I called Customer Service in the US from Europe to inform Apple that I miss 10.5.1 menu transparency. The Customer Service representative I spoke with said he misses it too and if enough people let Apple know, its highly likely that there will be an option to change it back in a future update.

[macrem]

I have downgraded to 10.5.1 until there is some way to get the very cool blurred menus + the latest software updates together.

It was significant time and effort that did not have to be spent doing this, as is writing these posts, and calling/writing to Apple, but in the end it was worth it as I am very happy to have my menus back, even though I would also like to have the latest software updates. The menus look sizzling hot again, are way cool and absolutely usable!!

To recap what happened:

- the people who designed the original Leopard menus are the top experts & artists in the world of UI design. They collaborated and made translucent, blurred menus that look stunning and are absolutely usable,

- amateurs who know relatively very little about UI design whined with arguments that do not hold water. Reading menus is NOT the same thing as reading a book or a webpage. If it was so important to listen to non-appreciative amateurs, then what about us who appreciate the work of artists??

- so Apple caved to a bunch of whiney amateurs, whom according to this poll hold the minority opinion. Its not the fault of amateurs, though, its the fault of Apple management for listening to one side and not at least giving us the choice, and forcing something most users don't want on them, and for not being responsive enough after its obvious they made a judgement error. Apple should have left us an option to revert back to the professional's choice instead of managers caving in to voiciferous amateurs. Rest assured that Apple is 100% capable of offering an update with an option to restore the original translucency or at least quietly seeding a (command line) hack out to the community today if they so choose, e.g. if Steve says make it so,

- by combining important software updates with a forced (if you want 10.5.2), controversial UI change, many people are choosing not to upgrade or are reverting to 10.5.1 and not getting all the latest software patches. You should not have to back out of security patches to get the translucent menus that were there when choosing to buy the product and perhaps influenced your decision to upgrade, as was my case. This is a major flaw. From a *nix perspective, technically speaking it is downright ridiculous,

- probably some Product/Project Managers and/or upper management at Apple stepped in and overruled the experts in UI design, possibly making the latter less confident about making great, cutting edge designs for Apple in the future (I hope not!).

How can the people who made the best OS ever not see these things? Whether or not you agree with all these arguments, its logical to assume that many people will and so much relatively easier to just stick in an option that makes us all happy. During the months I have been waiting patiently for a "fix", I have not been my usual Apple/OS-X-advocating-self.

[macrem]

another observation now that I have translucent menus back again:

the translucent menus are less white, so less bright, so less obtrusive or less of a shock to the eye while looking at the screen and panning across menus between different sized rectangular shapes flashing up on the screen. Translucency muting the brightness here is a plus. You don't stay on a single menu like you would stay focussed on a single window to read a substantial amount of text. All aestheics aside, it also offers an improved user experience. If I did not know the difference, I would say that 10.5.1 is the newer enhanced release from a UX standpoint.

[Sunnzy]

I actually liked the translucent menu and menu bar back in Tiger... don't know if many people will share the same opinion though...

[DaveF]

To recap what happened:

- the people who designed the original Leopard menus are the top experts & artists in the world of UI design. They collaborated and made translucent, blurred menus that look stunning and are absolutely usable,

- amateurs who know relatively very little about UI design whined with arguments that do not hold water. Reading menus is NOT the same thing as reading a book or a webpage. If it was so important to listen to non-appreciative amateurs, then what about us who appreciate the work of artists??
You're right -- when I was having trouble reading menus due to their transparency, I really wasn't. Thanks for clarifying.

As for the Apple experts: they get it wrong sometimes. The first iteration of Stacks conclusively shows that.

[kuwisdelu]

Apple experts may get it wrong sometimes, but in this case it's a matter of opinion whether they got it wrong or not, and many of us agree with the original decision. The menus were beautiful before. Now they're blah. That's really all there is to it. For some people the blah makes it easier to read, and for the rest of us it's just blah. Why have blah when we could have beautiful? (And an option to return to blah for the people who had trouble reading it before.)

I agree with just about everything macrem said. Except I'm not sure how many people are trying to downgrade because of it. Personally, I just don't want to go through the trouble, and am patiently hoping Apple will delight me with the translucent menus' return in 10.5.3, or through a quietly released Terminal command. Nonetheless, it is causing a less than perfect user experience.

[TheSpaz]

You're right -- when I was having trouble reading menus due to their transparency, I really wasn't. Thanks for clarifying.

As for the Apple experts: they get it wrong sometimes. The first iteration of Stacks conclusively shows that.

How the heck did you have trouble reading the menus before? What kind of background stuff needs to be going on where the menus are un-readable? I'd like to know so that I can re-produce this strange phenomenon for myself. The default menu text is HUGE, BLACK, and PLAIN and it has NEVER affected my ability to read perfectly clearly. I have yet to run into a situation where I say to myself "Man, I'm sure glad Apple made the menus almost pure white now, I can really start working hard now that I can read again." -- That's ridiculous. Maybe you just can't focus your eyes right or maybe you have ADD or something... I don't know.

[DaveF]

How the heck did you have trouble reading the menus before? ... That's ridiculous. Maybe you just can't focus your eyes right or maybe you have ADD or something... I don't know.Go backward through the thread, I've explained it previously. But just like the other smugly patronizing poster, I'm sure you're right. It's wholly me. My eyes are defective, weak zonules, not holding my lenses in place, preventing me from reading Apple's menus. No need for false modesty: you clearly know what's happening.

Apple experts may get it wrong sometimes, but in this case it's a matter of opinion whether they got it wrong or not, and many of us agree with the original decision. The menus were beautiful before. Now they're blah. That's really all there is to it. For some people the blah makes it easier to read, and for the rest of us it's just blah. Why have blah when we could have beautiful? (And an option to return to blah for the people who had trouble reading it before.)

I agree with just about everything macrem said. Except I'm not sure how many people are trying to downgrade because of it. Personally, I just don't want to go through the trouble, and am patiently hoping Apple will delight me with the translucent menus' return in 10.5.3, or through a quietly released Terminal command. Nonetheless, it is causing a less than perfect user experience.Personal aesthetics are part of it, but I don't agree that's all it is. There's some basic physiology here too: text superimposed on a busy or partially-readable background is going to be harder to read than text on a pristine background. For some people moreso, for others not at all.

Consider this: Apple has an interface that part of the audience finds beautiful and part of the audience finds difficult -- actually decreases ease of use. I think Apple made the right choice in sacrificing the beauty (in some opinions) to improve usability for others.

Personally, I still think the menus are too transparent. I'd like to see them fully opaque. As said before, a user option for controlling opacity would be just fine.

[macrem]

I am just curious to know from people who complained to Apple about the menus pre-10.5.2 before opaqueness was added... Would you please look at this screenshot:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/lfrem/LeopardMenus.png

Now, please point out a character that you have difficulty reading.

Its my 10.5.1 bookmarks menu over the wikipedia home page with high contrast black and white text and an image in the background. I had to artificially line things up to try to make it the 'worst case scenario'.

Also, why do you guys keep using the (wet, translucent page, etc.) book analogy? That sounds "smugly patronizing". Reading menus is NOT like reading a lengthy block of text, ergo why there is no transparency behind Safari windows. With menus, you glance using a pointer or arrows to highlight text (blue bar above).

The more white & opaque the menus are, the brighter they are and the more blocks of bright light flash on the screen before your eyes as you pan through menus. Is that better for your eyes and your brain? Do you like bright as possible light light flashing before your eyes?

Btw, Apple did not take away Stacks, they gave us more options. Taking away is a regression.

Also, menus on the latest top-of-the-line video products such as televisions are often translucent these days (more so than the pre-10.5.2 menus). It looks more advanced. Do you call up the video product manufacturers in these cases to complain that you cannot read the menus as well?

When you highlight an icon and hit the space bar (forget what that feature is called but its even more transparent than menus), and see many other elements that are still matching/consistent with the transparency of pre-10.5.2 menus, do you call Apple to complain about transparency in these places too?

[Sunnzy]

I don't think that's the worst case scenario you can get. An image in the background does not distract that much.

But if there is a block of text in the back then it would make it worse than just an image.

But I don't know... I never used 10.5.1, I just started using 10.5.2... I personally liked the menu back in Tiger...

[kuwisdelu]

Personal aesthetics are part of it, but I don't agree that's all it is. There's some basic physiology here too: text superimposed on a busy or partially-readable background is going to be harder to read than text on a pristine background. For some people moreso, for others not at all.

Consider this: Apple has an interface that part of the audience finds beautiful and part of the audience finds difficult -- actually decreases ease of use. I think Apple made the right choice in sacrificing the beauty (in some opinions) to improve usability for others.

Personally, I still think the menus are too transparent. I'd like to see them fully opaque. As said before, a user option for controlling opacity would be just fine.

They practically are fully opaque right now. You really have to be looking for the translucency to see it at all. And I don't think Apple sacrificing a pleasing GUI experience for some users to satisfy what appears to be a minority is the right choice. The proper choice would have been to offer an option--just like they did with the menu bar. Look, I've explained this time and time again, including how the translucency is even more usable for some users (like myself and a few others) in certain situations. Go ahead and go back through this thread and look at my own explanations. There are perfectly good reasons to give the option to keep them translucent. There's no reason to take it away without an option.

[macrem]

I don't think that's the worst case scenario you can get. An image in the background does not distract that much.

But if there is a block of text in the back then it would make it worse than just an image.

But I don't know... I never used 10.5.1, I just started using 10.5.2... I personally liked the menu back in Tiger...
Fyi, this is 10.5.1 with a block text in the background:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/lfrem/1051menu.png

I like Tiger menus too. I started using Leopard from 10.5.0. After the 10.5.2 upgrade, to get the translucent menus back I downgraded to 10.5.0 by performing an archive and install with the Leopard CD, then manually downloaded and installed the 10.5.1 combo update from the Apple website.

Below is another 10.5.1 screenshot with white text on black, the opposite of above. Notice how this menu is darker than the above screenshots. When the menu pops up, its less bright than an opaque white menu and softer to the eye as it contrasts relatively less to the eye adjusted to reading text on a black background:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/lfrem/another1051.png

I consider that a plus usability wise, aside from its sublime appearance.

I can read it perfectly well. Would someone who complained about translucent menus please point out a character that's difficult to read in any of the screenshots I have posted?

Btw, my new mobile phone and digital camera have some transparent menus. Has anyone with similar devices called to complain to the manufacturers?

[Stratus Fear]

If you replace the following files:

/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

by versions from 10.5.1 or 10.5, you'll get your translucent menus back. Be advised that the option to turn off the translucent menu bar will no longer work if you do this (although those of you interested in translucent menus probably don't care, same as me). Unfortunately, this is the only thing I've figured out that works. I haven't seen any solutions elsewhere. Apple hardcoded the values into these frameworks, instead of putting it in an xml file, or something like that.

If you do this, make sure the HIToolbox and CoreUI files are chmod 755 (rwxr-xr-x) and SArtFile.bin is chmod 644 (rw-r--r--) or your OS won't boot when you restart (it wouldn't be fun to boot off an install disc to open Terminal there and fix your system). I'd make backups of your files before replacing them, too.

[killmoms]

When the menu pops up, its less bright than an opaque white menu and softer to the eye as it contrasts relatively less to the eye adjusted to reading text on a black background:

You do realize, of course, that reading light text on a black background is more tiring to the human eye than the opposite, right?

[macrem]

If you replace the following files:

/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin
[...]

Finally, the information I've been looking for everywhere!! Thank you Stratus Fear!!

I like the translucent menubar too so no worries if that option's gone. I'm currently away from home with my MBP, am planning to test this procedure on an old machine once back at home on Monday. My install disc is at home too...

[richard.mac]

Fyi, this is 10.5.1 with a block text in the background:

snip

I like Tiger menus too. I started using Leopard from 10.5.0. After the 10.5.2 upgrade, to get the translucent menus back I downgraded to 10.5.0 by performing an archive and install with the Leopard CD, then manually downloaded and installed the 10.5.1 combo update from the Apple website.

Below is another 10.5.1 screenshot with white text on black, the opposite of above. Notice how this menu is darker than the above screenshots. When the menu pops up, its less bright than an opaque white menu and softer to the eye as it contrasts relatively less to the eye adjusted to reading text on a black background:

snip

I consider that a plus usability wise, aside from its sublime appearance.

I can read it perfectly well. Would someone who complained about translucent menus please point out a character that's difficult to read in any of the screenshots I have posted?

Btw, my new mobile phone and digital camera have some transparent menus. Has anyone with similar devices called to complain to the manufacturers?

how did u get the menu grey?

If you replace the following files:

/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

by versions from 10.5.1 or 10.5, you'll get your translucent menus back. Be advised that the option to turn off the translucent menu bar will no longer work if you do this (although those of you interested in translucent menus probably don't care, same as me). Unfortunately, this is the only thing I've figured out that works. I haven't seen any solutions elsewhere. Apple hardcoded the values into these frameworks, instead of putting it in an xml file, or something like that.

If you do this, make sure the HIToolbox and CoreUI files are chmod 755 (rwxr-xr-x) and SArtFile.bin is chmod 644 (rw-r--r--) or your OS won't boot when you restart (it wouldn't be fun to boot off an install disc to open Terminal there and fix your system). I'd make backups of your files before replacing them, too.

can you or anyone else please zip those files and attach them? thanks! and also how do you "chmod" to change permissions in Terminal? what is the command and syntax? thanks!

[macrem]

can you or anyone else please zip those files and attach them? thanks! and also how do you "chmod" to change permissions in Terminal? what is the command and syntax? thanks!
The safest procedure would be to get those files directly from an install CD or your own pre-10.5.2 harddrive, that way you know the files are authentic (this is a good security practice example why Apple should not hardcode this stuff and just let us tweak some xml file settings, in addition to common sense.)

The command to ensure permissions are correct after backing up the 10.5.2 originals and copying over the pre-10.5.2 versions:

sudo chmod 755 /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI && sudo chmod 644 /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

...also to ensure ownership is correct:

sudo chown root:wheel /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

[richard.mac]

The safest procedure would be to get those files directly from an install CD or your own pre-10.5.2 harddrive, that way you know the files are authentic (this is a good security practice example why Apple should not hardcode this stuff and just let us tweak some xml file settings, in addition to common sense.)

The command to ensure permissions are correct after backing up the 10.5.2 originals and copying over the pre-10.5.2 versions:

sudo chmod 755 /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI && sudo chmod 644 /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

...also to ensure ownership is correct:

sudo chown root:wheel /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

thanks macrem and Stratus Fear! i was a bit confused by chmod and chown so this clears things up. also good idea getting the files off the install DVD ill use Pacifist to do that.

EDIT: im assuming that the first command is to change the permissions for all 3 files at once and that the second command is to check this?

[richard.mac]

OK so i just tried replacing those files with the ones from my 10.5.0 install DVD and it didnt work. i doubled checked that i had set the right permissions and set them again.

it will boot and gets to the login window even though i have automatic login set but i cant login, it just goes straight back to the login window. i tried another user account and the same deal so its not a user level problem. obviously these files dont interact properly with the other interface system files. this leads me to believe that other files from 10.5.0 have to be transfered over to 10.5.2. does this definitely work for you Stratus Fear?

im currently living on a 10.5.0 install on an external drive (with the translucent menus :D) until i restore my backups.

[TheSpaz]

If you replace the following files:

/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

by versions from 10.5.1 or 10.5, you'll get your translucent menus back. Be advised that the option to turn off the translucent menu bar will no longer work if you do this (although those of you interested in translucent menus probably don't care, same as me). Unfortunately, this is the only thing I've figured out that works. I haven't seen any solutions elsewhere. Apple hardcoded the values into these frameworks, instead of putting it in an xml file, or something like that.

If you do this, make sure the HIToolbox and CoreUI files are chmod 755 (rwxr-xr-x) and SArtFile.bin is chmod 644 (rw-r--r--) or your OS won't boot when you restart (it wouldn't be fun to boot off an install disc to open Terminal there and fix your system). I'd make backups of your files before replacing them, too.

This was the first thing I tried when 10.5.2 came out and it didn't work then, so I don't know why it would work now.

[Stratus Fear]

It's been working fine for me. Not sure why it wouldn't work for anyone else. I'm running .2 on an Air and grabbed the files from my .1 MBA install disc.

Make absolutely sure your files look like this in regards to permissions and owner:group:

In /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/
Mercury:A wesley$ ls -l HIToolbox
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 18205168 Mar 15 23:58 HIToolbox

In /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/
Mercury:A wesley$ ls -l CoreUI
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1457648 Mar 15 23:52 CoreUI

In /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/
Mercury:Resources wesley$ ls -l SArtFile.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 1831880 Mar 16 00:06 SArtFile.bin

If it isn't working, the only causes I can think of are your file versions don't match each other (take all the stuff from either 10.5 or 10.5.1, not a mix of both), your permissions are incorrect, 10.5 retail files don't work (possibly), or your computer just hates you.

In the interest of finding out if you're trying to use the same files I did, report the file sizes in bytes of the files you're using in replacement. Maybe the ones from my specific build of .1 that came with my computer work, but older ones don't. It's a possibility.

Edit: Actually, what could cause you to get kicked back to loginwindow would be if Finder died trying to load one of those frameworks. Initially I had that issue when I only replaced CoreUI, and all carbon apps died when they couldn't load HIToolbox since it was looking for a function in CoreUI having to do with the opaque menu bar (which is non-existent before .2). Make sure you've got your files replaced correctly.

[thirdeyeopen666]

If you replace the following files:

/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI
/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

by versions from 10.5.1 or 10.5, you'll get your translucent menus back. Be advised that the option to turn off the translucent menu bar will no longer work if you do this (although those of you interested in translucent menus probably don't care, same as me). Unfortunately, this is the only thing I've figured out that works. I haven't seen any solutions elsewhere. Apple hardcoded the values into these frameworks, instead of putting it in an xml file, or something like that.

If you do this, make sure the HIToolbox and CoreUI files are chmod 755 (rwxr-xr-x) and SArtFile.bin is chmod 644 (rw-r--r--) or your OS won't boot when you restart (it wouldn't be fun to boot off an install disc to open Terminal there and fix your system). I'd make backups of your files before replacing them, too.

Awesome man, thanks. You wouldn't happen to be the same Stratus Fear as on Xbox Live eh? Think I played against you in COD4 this morning.

edit: Rebooted and have that same issue... I can login, but it just kicks me right back to the login window. I replaced using pacifist to extract from my retail cd. My file sizes look exactly like yours, except for HIToolbox.

[Stratus Fear]

Awesome man, thanks. You wouldn't happen to be the same Stratus Fear as on Xbox Live eh? Think I played against you in COD4 this morning.

edit: Rebooted and have that same issue... I can login, but it just kicks me right back to the login window. I replaced using pacifist to extract from my retail cd. My file sizes look exactly like yours, except for HIToolbox.

So the culprit must be HIToolbox... I don't know how kosher it is legally to post my HIToolbox file anywhere, but what is Macrumors policy on that? I wonder if my file would work for others since it apparently works for me.

And no, I'm not the same one as you saw on XBL. I've been using this handle for a while but someone else out there apparently is as well, as I can't always get the same one in all places (had to settle for a different one on XBL). That and I don't have COD4 yet :(

Edit: Just so you can see here (http://www.stratusfear.com/images/screen.png), I do in fact have it working. Wish I could figure out exactly what the problem is for others -- I really doubt I have a super special Mac or anything like that. I still bet its that HIToolbox difference.

[DesignerOnMac]

Bring Our Translucent Menus Back

Isn't it in the preferences to do that? There is a radio button to turn on or off!

[richard.mac]

So the culprit must be HIToolbox... I don't know how kosher it is legally to post my HIToolbox file anywhere, but what is Macrumors policy on that? I wonder if my file would work for others since it apparently works for me.

And no, I'm not the same one as you saw on XBL. I've been using this handle for a while but someone else out there apparently is as well, as I can't always get the same one in all places (had to settle for a different one on XBL). That and I don't have COD4 yet :(

Edit: Just so you can see here (http://www.stratusfear.com/images/screen.png), I do in fact have it working. Wish I could figure out exactly what the problem is for others -- I really doubt I have a super special Mac or anything like that. I still bet its that HIToolbox difference.

maybe transfering the files from 10.5.0 to 10.5.2 doesnt work & it has to be from 10.5.1? or maybe it will only work from a MacBook Air 10.5.1 install?

ill download the 10.5.1 combo updater and extract the files to see if it works. can you also upload the three files or just HIToolbox from your MBA Stratus Fear? its fine uploading them here i uploaded the keyboard .prefpane for a memeber a little while ago. just zip it and attach to your post.

[Stratus Fear]

It looks like, according to the attachment page, that the files are all too big to attach here even zipped, so I'll provide some links for them.

Edit: You can find them here (http://www.stratusfear.com/other/). Note that this server is on a network with a 100KB/sec upload cap, so it's no speed demon, but it'll get the job done. Let me know if any of this works for you.

[heatmiser]

The annoying thing about their changing it is the fact that something like this takes five minutes to code an option switch for. They could easily have given the user the option to switch transparency, much as they did for the menu bar itself. Oh well. Maybe it'll be back in 10.5.3.

[TheSpaz]

IT WORKED!!!!!

I'm going to make a tutorial on exactly what I did.

1. I downloaded the files that Stratus Fear posted (http://www.stratusfear.com/other/) (thanks dude!)
2. I enabled the root user by opening /Applications/Utilities/Directory Utility and clicking Edit>Enable Root User
3. I logged out of my normal user and logged into root
4. I went to /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox and backed up the existing HIToolbox and dragged the new one into it's place.
5. I launched /Applications/Utilities/Terminal
6. Type this command in the Terminal:
chmod 755 /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
7. I went to /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI once again making sure I backed up and copied the new CoreUI file and set permissions in the Terminal to 755 using the same method as step 6.
8. I went to /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin and replaced it with the new one... only this time setting the permissions to 644 instead.
9. Logged out and logged back in. My System is now nice and transparent again!!! Woohoo!

I hope this all works for you! It worked for me and I can confirm 100% that Stratus Fear was not lying.

[Stratus Fear]

Yay! Glad to see it finally worked for someone. Glad I could be of help. Now I suppose the real trick is to see what happens with the next update -- whether Apple gives us the option, or whether they don't but possibly change something in the frameworks again necessitating us to replace the files once again to get the look we want.

Anyway, everyone post back here if you have any issues with this solution. I've been using it about a couple of weeks and haven't had any issues so far, so I think we're good for now!

[TheSpaz]

Yay! Glad to see it finally worked for someone. Glad I could be of help. Now I suppose the real trick is to see what happens with the next update -- whether Apple gives us the option, or whether they don't but possibly change something in the frameworks again necessitating us to replace the files once again to get the look we want.

Anyway, everyone post back here if you have any issues with this solution. I've been using it about a couple of weeks and haven't had any issues so far, so I think we're good for now!

Thanks Stratus Fear! You're my hero!

[thirdeyeopen666]

Woohoo! Thanks TheSpaz and Stratus Fear. Works great now. Now if I could only figure out why my MBP shows so much more translucency than my iMac. It was the same way in 10.5 and 10.5.1. Maybe a contrast thing?

[kuwisdelu]

Great solution, guys! Too bad Apple didn't make it a little easier... Just in case I have any troubles, I'm waiting for my Time Capsule arrives so I can finally get a Time Machine backup going before I try this. But once I have a backup just in case something goes awry (as this is my only machine, and I need it for schoolwork) I'll try this out, too. :D

[macrem]

It worked, phew! :eek: Finally a solution to have the latest updates and translucent menus.

This will rest in my memory as one of the most idiotic OS situations. The funky, obfuscated coding + the feeling :apple: could care less left a bad taste.

I used Stratus Fear's HIToolbox file and my 10.5.1 backups for the other two files. Thank you again Stratus Fear, you rock!!

[richard.mac]

WOO! i got it working now! the HIToolbox file did the trick thanks Stratus Fear! i think it needs to be from a 10.5.1 install or the file is different on a MBA im not sure.

hopefully Apple wont make any more adjustments to these files and add them to a system update. ill keep a backup of these 3 files along with my originals just in case.

here is how i did it. almost the same as The Spaz so use our methods as a guide. note: i already had a OS X install on my external drive.

1. downloaded the files (http://www.stratusfear.com/other/)
2. booted into my external drive.
3. opened /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/ and backed up HIToolbox, then deleted it and replaced it with Stratus Fear's one.
4. did the same for CoreUI in /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/ and SArtFile.bin in /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/
5. entered this command into the Terminal

sudo chmod 755 /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI && sudo chmod 644 /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

[macrem's command which sets the permissions for all 3 files]

6. booted into my main hard drive and enjoyed the view!

i too can confirm that this is 100% working. lets just hope that Apple doesn't replace these files in a software update.

one thing to note though is although the "Translucent menu bar" tickbox is still in the desktop picture preferences it doesnt work so you cant have an opaque menu bar which doesnt bother me.

109130 109131 109134 109133

[Stratus Fear]

Awesome awesome awesome! Glad to see that solution is working! Having to replace files isn't the most ideal situation, so hopefully Apple will give us a choice in the future...

[greenfrogz]

hi, after i replaced the file, I noticed that my safari icons is changed in the toolbar. and almost all the icon is different. anyone face the same problem or can anyone help me?

thanks

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8485/picture1qd9.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7434/picture2sr2.th.png (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture2sr2.png)



EDIT: I fixed it. The reason is I didn't log on into root user to do the changes. XD Thanks anyway

[richard.mac]

^thats so weird!?... did you click the report bug button? hehe :D

glad you fixed it.

[HLdan]

WOO! i got it working now! the HIToolbox file did the trick thanks Stratus Fear! i think it needs to be from a 10.5.1 install or the file is different on a MBA im not sure.

hopefully Apple wont make any more adjustments to these files and add them to a system update. ill keep a backup of these 3 files along with my originals just in case.

here is how i did it. almost the same as The Spaz so use our methods as a guide. note: i already had a OS X install on my external drive.

1. downloaded the files (http://www.stratusfear.com/other/)
2. booted into my external drive.
3. opened /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/ and backed up HIToolbox, then deleted it and replaced it with Stratus Fear's one.
4. did the same for CoreUI in /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/ and SArtFile.bin in /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/
5. entered this command into the Terminal

sudo chmod 755 /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI && sudo chmod 644 /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin

[macrem's command which sets the permissions for all 3 files]

6. booted into my main hard drive and enjoyed the view!

i too can confirm that this is 100% working. lets just hope that Apple doesn't replace these files in a software update.

one thing to note though is although the "Translucent menu bar" tickbox is still in the desktop picture preferences it doesnt work so you cant have an opaque menu bar which doesnt bother me.

109130 109131 109134 109133

Interesting, I wish I had the courage to do this. How does the "About This Mac" dialog box say, "Mac OS X Leopard" with a black apple? It usually just says Mac OS X with the silver apple. Is this a haxie as well?

[muitommy]

it's big paradox and it's stupid for Apple just removing the translucent things instead of make it optional to us ..:p
i prefer translucent menu bar, it's cool!!

[richard.mac]

Interesting, I wish I had the courage to do this. How does the "About This Mac" dialog box say, "Mac OS X Leopard" with a black apple? It usually just says Mac OS X with the silver apple. Is this a haxie as well?

yeh i made that myself... the apple icon was looking a bit dated... its cool huh? i cant remember where i got the black apple but the "Mac OS X Leopard" writing i got from Mitthrawnuruodo. i can post the files and install instructions if you would like? you will have to replace some more system files so i wouldnt do it unless you feel comfortable doing the instructions above... system folder madness!

[maxrobertson]

Oh man that's a shame. I thought they were gorgeous and one of the few things I actually liked about the leopard UI.

[UltraNEO*]

I like it as it is now (in 10.5.2). Still has a little transparency but much more sleek and elegant.

If Apple were to created a user changeable slider for transparency,
like in Linux. I think it'll please just about everyone... Personally I never notice it changed back... :rolleyes: lol

Shortcuts are so much more useful. :D

[HLdan]

yeh i made that myself... the apple icon was looking a bit dated... its cool huh? i cant remember where i got the black apple but the "Mac OS X Leopard" writing i got from Mitthrawnuruodo. i can post the files and install instructions if you would like? you will have to replace some more system files so i wouldnt do it unless you feel comfortable doing the instructions above... system folder madness!

I like, it looks very cool. I'm pretty tech savvy so I would try your idea but I already changed the aqua scroll bars to match the iLife ones and I started getting errors when repairing permissions so I reformatted and decided not to modify my Mac. I do wish Apple gave us more customization and I too am pissed they took away the very cool translucent menus and left us with no option to change it back.

[TheSpaz]

Update: I can no longer log into my machine remotely with SSH... it says permission denied even though I've got the correct user name and password.... a restart didn't help. I think this is one of those security features that if you mess with the System Files, it locks you out in case someone is doing things maliciously. That sucks.... anyone else not able to SSH anymore after this edit?

[siorai]

I just did this last night as well. I have to admit that for some reason I was hesitant to do it. When I was running XP Pro I never hesitated to do stuff like this. I guess since I had used it for years, a format/reinstall was never a worry. I could have my system back to where it was in about an hour or two. As I'm a new convert to Mac, I wasn't looking forward to how long it would take to get a fresh install of OSX back to where I have it now.

But...

It went perfectly! I followed the steps richthomas posted (minus booting to an external, just made sure to login as root) and I now have the translucent menus back. :D It's not a big change, and legibility is fine, but it's just enough to make the UI look a bit more cool and not so sterile like it was previously. Many thanks to everyone who was involved in making the needed files available and the steps laid out in full for how to do it.

[PowerFullMac]

yeh i made that myself... the apple icon was looking a bit dated... its cool huh? i cant remember where i got the black apple but the "Mac OS X Leopard" writing i got from Mitthrawnuruodo. i can post the files and install instructions if you would like? you will have to replace some more system files so i wouldnt do it unless you feel comfortable doing the instructions above... system folder madness!

I done that kind of stuff all the time with my iBook G3... Loved it! I changed my "About this Mac" window a lot and made it say I had a 900GHz CPU and 384GB RAM :D lots of other stuff, too!

[Stratus Fear]

Update: I can no longer log into my machine remotely with SSH... it says permission denied even though I've got the correct user name and password.... a restart didn't help. I think this is one of those security features that if you mess with the System Files, it locks you out in case someone is doing things maliciously. That sucks.... anyone else not able to SSH anymore after this edit?

I don't know if I've been having this issue or not. Having only my MBA right now, I obviously don't SSH into the machine much since I always have it with me (waiting on an iMac I ordered -- both my previous Macs got stolen when someone broke the window to my apt :() I did notice, though, that after the most recent security update, some 3rd party software caused the SSH client to die. Might be the same thing with the SSH server. In my case, it was a component of AirFoil that caused the issue. You might want to check on that, unless everything was working before you made the change. I'll test the SSH server on mine and get back to you on that.

Edit: Remote Login/SSH working here. Definitely check to see if you applied that security update recently and that could be causing the issue. Or maybe something else is going on.

[kuwisdelu]

Remote Login/SSH working here. Definitely check to see if you applied that security update recently and that could be causing the issue. Or maybe something else is going on.

Any kind of software update always breaks my Cisco VPN client I use to SSH into my school's computers. May be similar to this, as I always have to reinstall it after an update. Gets kind of annoying. Even worse is that the same happens w/ UT2004 :mad:

[TheSpaz]

Edit: Remote Login/SSH working here. Definitely check to see if you applied that security update recently and that could be causing the issue. Or maybe something else is going on.

I did install a security update recently... how do I get SSH working again? FTP is also broken however, I can still use VNC and AFC and Web Sharing... it's just SSH and FTP that are screwed up.

How do I find out if my SSH service is crashing?

[Deadaim357]

They are still translucent, it's just barely noticeable. :(

I would like a slider or toggle to have it the old way too.

The slider is a great idea. Also the option to turn it on and off would be ideal. That way everybody's happy. :)

[Stratus Fear]

I did install a security update recently... how do I get SSH working again? FTP is also broken however, I can still use VNC and AFC and Web Sharing... it's just SSH and FTP that are screwed up.

How do I find out if my SSH service is crashing?

Taking a look at the logs in /var/log could shed some light on the problem. Be forewarned, they're not the most fun thing to read. Look for stuff referencing sshd.

[TheSpaz]

Taking a look at the logs in /var/log could shed some light on the problem. Be forewarned, they're not the most fun thing to read. Look for stuff referencing sshd.

Here's what I found:

Mar 25 10:28:32 Mac-Pro sshd[41215]: USER_PROCESS: 41215 ttys000
Mar 25 10:28:32 Mac-Pro com.apple.launchd[1] (0x10d960.sshd[41215]): Could not setup Mach task special port 9: (os/kern) no access
Mar 25 10:34:44 Mac-Pro com.apple.launchd[1] (0x10e160.sshd[41252]): Could not setup Mach task special port 9: (os/kern) no access

Edit: Here's what happens when I start SSH in System Preferences:

Mac-Pro com.apple.launchd[1] (com.openssh.sshd): Unknown key: SHAuthorizationRight

[edwardrjones]

IT WORKED!!!!!

I'm going to make a tutorial on exactly what I did.

1. I downloaded the files that Stratus Fear posted (http://www.stratusfear.com/other/) (thanks dude!)
2. I enabled the root user by opening /Applications/Utilities/Directory Utility and clicking Edit>Enable Root User
3. I logged out of my normal user and logged into root
4. I went to /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox and backed up the existing HIToolbox and dragged the new one into it's place.
5. I launched /Applications/Utilities/Terminal
6. Type this command in the Terminal:
chmod 755 /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
7. I went to /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI once again making sure I backed up and copied the new CoreUI file and set permissions in the Terminal to 755 using the same method as step 6.
8. I went to /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/Resources/SArtFile.bin and replaced it with the new one... only this time setting the permissions to 644 instead.
9. Logged out and logged back in. My System is now nice and transparent again!!! Woohoo!

I hope this all works for you! It worked for me and I can confirm 100% that Stratus Fear was not lying.

This may make me sound a little stupid but when i load 'Directory Utility' i cannot select enable root user. it is greyed out.

Can someone please explain?

Cheers

Eddie

[TheSpaz]

This may make me sound a little stupid but when i load 'Directory Utility' i cannot select enable root user. it is greyed out.

Can someone please explain?

Cheers

Eddie

You must unlock the lock icon first.

[edwardrjones]

Ha so simple

Cheers, i now have my translucent menus back

[TheSpaz]

Ha so simple

Cheers, i now have my translucent menus back

Awesome!

[macrem]

Just thought I'd mention an alternative, simple unix geek way to update these system files without enabling the root, aka super user account.

1. as admins are sudoers, from a command line type (if you're not already a sudoer):

su admin

...where "admin" should be substituted by an account name on your machine with administrator privileges. This is to switch users to an admin account at the current command line only, its not the equivalent of fast user switching. I always recommend logging in as a standard user with limited privileges, then becoming an admin only when needed.

2. run the sudo commands posted earlier from the above command line while still logged in as a standard user, without enabling root.

Also, normally I do not advocate changing system files, nor getting said files from unknown users on the net. This is the first and hopefully the last time I will feel compelled to do it. Hopefully Apple will realize that the way they have implemented this feature practically causes a security hole exploitable by a combination of hacking (although I assume it would be difficult to hack these binary files without source code) and social engineering.

[Stratus Fear]

Here's what I found:

Mar 25 10:28:32 Mac-Pro sshd[41215]: USER_PROCESS: 41215 ttys000
Mar 25 10:28:32 Mac-Pro com.apple.launchd[1] (0x10d960.sshd[41215]): Could not setup Mach task special port 9: (os/kern) no access
Mar 25 10:34:44 Mac-Pro com.apple.launchd[1] (0x10e160.sshd[41252]): Could not setup Mach task special port 9: (os/kern) no access

Edit: Here's what happens when I start SSH in System Preferences:

Mac-Pro com.apple.launchd[1] (com.openssh.sshd): Unknown key: SHAuthorizationRight

Could be a permissions issue maybe?

[Stratus Fear]

Also, normally I do not advocate changing system files, nor getting said files from unknown users on the net. This is the first and hopefully the last time I will feel compelled to do it.

Same here, really. Only reason I posted 'em is because I knew people really wanted it and I managed to figure out the files. Usually tinkering with your system or installing files from unknown sources is a recipe for disaster, unless you're really sure of what you're doing.

[TheSpaz]

Could be a permissions issue maybe?

Just an update guys... my SSH still wasn't working and I fought with it all day to get it to work... well... as luck would have it... Apple released a version 1.1 of their Security Update and after installing that and restarting, my SSH is working normally again... so it WAS an update that caused the problem and they released another update that fixed the problem that the first update caused.

[Stratus Fear]

Just an update guys... my SSH still wasn't working and I fought with it all day to get it to work... well... as luck would have it... Apple released a version 1.1 of their Security Update and after installing that and restarting, my SSH is working normally again... so it WAS an update that caused the problem and they released another update that fixed the problem that the first update caused.

Good to see that fixed it. I guess Apple certainly doesn't always get it right :D

[Stratus Fear]

Just got my new iMac 24" in today :D Did the "hack" after getting all the updates, works fine with no problems :)

[Bonsai1214]

here's hoping 5.3 will have a slider.. hah. too much work to do the hack right now. i'll give it a try next weekend..

[sambaranghosh]

Does it work on hackintosh?
I tried it 2 times and my hackintosh running leo4all leopard 10.5.2 crashed and I had to reinstall it.

[TheSpaz]

Does it work on hackintosh?
I tried it 2 times and my hackintosh running leo4all leopard 10.5.2 crached and I had to reinstall it.

Did you fix the permissions?

[sambaranghosh]

Did you fix the permissions?

Yes I did! with terminal using chmod method

[ghall]

Does it work on hackintosh?
I tried it 2 times and my hackintosh running leo4all leopard 10.5.2 crashed and I had to reinstall it.

Same thing happened to me though I have an official Mac.

[richard.mac]

Same thing happened to me though I have an official Mac.

dude i have EXACTLY the same Mac as you! should work man.

[geek-inthe-pink]

Hey I got an idea... Lets request they bring the :apple: menu back to the center of the screen.
You have really got to be kidding me. Either that, or ou were asleep when you wrote this......

[geek-inthe-pink]

So has anyone found a hack to bring back the pre .2 menus back?

I had zero legibility issues with the transparent menus and in fact I loved them. I hate it now--the menu bar itself is still pretty translucent but the drop down menus are a joke, there's barely anything there...it's not "subtle" it's 90% opaque....what's the point in even describing it as translucent when it barely is. :confused: Please Apple bring back REAL transparency!!!! You got it right the first time!!!

Yes, my feelings exactly. It's funny: My dock is translucent black (its on the left now, but i made it black when it was down centered too), I hate the transparent menu bar, but LOVE the translucent menu drop downs and dialogue slide-outs.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Apple, this is from me to you; please please please please please please please please bring aesthetic transparent menu dorps and slide-outs back into Leopard reality.

[geek-inthe-pink]

I almost can't believe what I am reading. Are our lives so empty that we cnnot think of anything better to do with our time than to complain, endlessly, about the opacity of menus and our lack of control over that opacity? Seems pretty small on the total human scale. Many more important (at least to me) issues out there. i think it is worth thinking about redirecting some energy elsewhere.

and you're replying BECAUSE.............???????

yeah, that's right. you're bored too.

[geek-inthe-pink]

hi, after i replaced the file, I noticed that my safari icons is changed in the toolbar. and almost all the icon is different. anyone face the same problem or can anyone help me?

thanks

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8485/picture1qd9.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7434/picture2sr2.th.png (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture2sr2.png)



EDIT: I fixed it. The reason is I didn't log on into root user to do the changes. XD Thanks anyway

Yes, me too! And my graphics went all weird............
So, "With me it's all or nothin'"
I say no thank ou. It goofed up my blue tooth and when I was in safari, the menubar is opaque. in terminal it turns translucent when i change focus. It also, messed up time machine, so I'm switching back, thank you very much. (I got my MB like two weks ago, dont want it brokedededed yet)

[TheSpaz]

Yes, me too! And my graphics went all weird............
So, "With me it's all or nothin'"
I say no thank ou. It goofed up my blue tooth and when I was in safari, the menubar is opaque. in terminal it turns translucent when i change focus. It also, messed up time machine, so I'm switching back, thank you very much. (I got my MB like two weks ago, dont want it brokedededed yet)

You did something wrong. If you follow my instructions exactly, it should come out perfect. My Safari is fine, my bluetooth is fine and everything else is fine...

SSH wasn't affected by this edit, a security update broke it and then another security update fixed it.

[geek-inthe-pink]

You did something wrong. If you follow my instructions exactly, it should come out perfect. My Safari is fine, my bluetooth is fine and everything else is fine...

SSH wasn't affected by this edit, a security update broke it and then another security update fixed it.

Yeah I did something wrong - I don't know what it is, but I had to wipe my whole hard drive and reinstall from the disk. It's a pretty painful process.
IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE INSTRUCTIONS, OR YOU THINK ABOUT SKIPPING A STEP, DO NOT ATTEMPT!

The results can be disastrous. Learn from my mistake.

[iPoodOverZune]

Yes, my feelings exactly. It's funny: My dock is translucent black (its on the left now, but i made it black when it was down centered too), I hate the transparent menu bar, but LOVE the translucent menu drop downs and dialogue slide-outs.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Apple, this is from me to you; please please please please please please please please bring aesthetic transparent menu dorps and slide-outs back into Leopard reality.

Ditto here. I wanted the same thing. So I used a workaround and not that difficult at all. After doing all the steps above, select one or few desktop pictures you like and then modify by putting a rectangle on top. For example, I used photoshop elements (or any other photo editing tool u may have) and for 1680x1050 monitor (and appropriate file), I added a 0.7 cm wide rectangle and it perfectly covers the menu bar. After that, use the drop bucket to paint with the desired color shade and transparency ( I could not set the gradient yet; dont know exactly how to do it; i am new to photoediting) and there you have it.

Very nice looking menu bar with transparent drop down menus. :)

[reubs]

I got Leopard a few wks ago and then I updated automatically to the 10.5.2, so I used the translucent menu bar. However, I'd be interested to see at least an option for the translucent menu bar.

[TheSpaz]

Ditto here. I wanted the same thing. So I used a workaround and not that difficult at all. After doing all the steps above, select one or few desktop pictures you like and then modify by putting a rectangle on top. For example, I used photoshop elements (or any other photo editing tool u may have) and for 1680x1050 monitor (and appropriate file), I added a 0.7 cm wide rectangle and it perfectly covers the menu bar. After that, use the drop bucket to paint with the desired color shade and transparency ( I could not set the gradient yet; dont know exactly how to do it; i am new to photoediting) and there you have it.

Very nice looking menu bar with transparent drop down menus. :)

That seems like a lot of work. You could just open the Terminal and paste:

sudo defaults write /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.WindowServer 'EnvironmentVariables' -dict 'CI_NO_BACKGROUND_IMAGE' 1

And Restart.

Done, next. ;-)

Edit: If you want a slightly grey menu bar so it's not as harsh on your eyes, just do this:

sudo defaults write /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/com.apple.WindowServer 'EnvironmentVariables' -dict 'CI_NO_BACKGROUND_IMAGE' 0.62

[siorai]

OK, having a bit of a problem here. The other night I decided to format/reinstall my system. Since I had recently switched to Mac, I was trying out various program and whatnot and just wanted a fresh start now that I know basically what I want installed. The install went fine, but now I'm back to enabling the translucent menus. This is what I'm seeing:

http://siorai.com/stuff/menu.jpg

I followed the exact same directions (posted by richthomas on page 8) that I used last time. Last time it worked perfectly. This time as you can see, I'm left with a partial translucency.

Any ideas of what might have went wrong?

[richard.mac]

siorai your translucency looks fine to me. it definitely doesnt look like the 10.5.2 menus which are almost opaque. heres a screenshot of my menus which ive tried to make as similar as possible as your screenshot.

http://i26.tinypic.com/3590rbq.jpg

[siorai]

Maybe I just never noticed it before, but now it seems like it's only partially translucent? Most text seems to get cut if half. I'll have to check again after work. I'm probably just being too critical.

edit: That's what I get for adjusting my monitor's settings.. :o The contrast was a bit too high and caused the translucency to render weirdly. I put it back to what it was and it looks great again.

[Fuzzy-Wan]

I found the manual method too tedious and error prone -- plus I blew the system icons like a few others here. :( So I've written two shell scripts to automate the process.

A few advantages: No need to activate the root account, or boot from an external drive (like I had to do when my first attempt screwed up HIToolbox and hosed the OS :rolleyes:).

The cp terminal command is supposed to maintain the original permissions, owner and group of the files being replaced, which makes this a very simple process (and safer, I hope). No chmod or chown required.

Unhack.sh script included to restore things to (10.5.2) normal.

Best of all: It didn't blow my icons. :D Disclaimer: I personally preset the permissions and ownership of the files before running the script, just to be safe. Don't try this unless you've got the chops to fix things that break. Have a bootable system backup ready if things go horribly wrong. Pray to Steve Jobs for strength ... and ask His forgiveness afterward. ;)

OK. Unzip the attached scripts. Copy the 10.5.2 versions of HIToolbox, CoreUI and SArtFile.bin to the included "originals" subfolder (see the paths.txt file if you've lost track of those hideously long filepaths). Place Stratus Fear's files (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=5201268&postcount=177) in the "replacements" subfolder. Open a Terminal, cd to the scripts folder, do ./hack.sh then log out/in and you should be all set. Run unhack.sh to restore the more opaque menus.

I encourage Stratus and/or TheSpaz to vet the scripts and verify that they actually work before anyone else tries them...

[TheSpaz]

Warning: 10.5.3 will not operate if you update with this hack applied.

[PowerFullMac]

The transparency seems to have gone 100% in 10.5.3!

[macrem]

The transparency seems to have gone 100% in 10.5.3!

I saw 10.5.3 is available and came here before upgrading to find out the scoop on transparent windows before upgrading...

Are you kidding me, Apple did not listen to us? :mad:

Is there really no (option for) transparency in 10.5.3?

+ as TheSpaz indicated, the hack won't work either?

[PowerFullMac]

I saw 10.5.3 is available and came here before upgrading to find out the scoop on transparent windows before upgrading...

Are you kidding me, Apple did not listen to us? :mad:

Is there really no (option for) transparency in 10.5.3?

+ as TheSpaz indicated, the hack won't work either?

Definatly no option that I can see and the transparency is definatly not there, I tilted my screen just too make sure!

[TheSpaz]

Definatly no option that I can see and the transparency is definatly not there, I tilted my screen just too make sure!

Is the option to make the menubar transparent still there (like it was in 10.5.2)?

I think they took it away from us!!! HAHAHA!

[PowerFullMac]

Is the option to make the menubar transparent still there (like it was in 10.5.2)?

Where is that located, again?

[macrem]

Definatly no option that I can see and the transparency is definatly not there, I tilted my screen just too make sure!
What... but... that can't be... the survey. Didn't they see the survey. I even sent Apple a link to the survey. Say it isn't so. No, no, nooooo!!! :eek:

[ergdegdeg]

Is the option to make the menubar transparent still there (like it was in 10.5.2)?

Yes it is.

[macrem]

I've been searching around for more info about 10.5.3. In every forum I've seen (including Apple's) users are saying: where are the transparent menus... I liked the transparent menus better... why not use a slider... make menu transparency match with the selected menu bar transparency option... why did they take away transparency... give users a choice... etc.

Two minutes of research & its obvious that a lot of people were expecting Apple to address this issue in 10.5.3. Ubuntu is looking better and better to me.

[PowerFullMac]

I've been searching around for more info about 10.5.3. In every forum I've seen (including Apple's) users are saying: where are the transparent menus... I liked the transparent menus better... why not use a slider... make menu transparency match with the selected menu bar transparency option... why did they take away transparency... give users a choice... etc.

Two minutes of research & its obvious that a lot of people were expecting Apple to address this issue in 10.5.3. Ubuntu is looking better and better to me.

You cant be serious! Moving to Linux because of transparent menus! :eek:

Use this, (http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html) perhaps.

[macrem]

You cant be serious! Moving to Linux because of transparent menus! :eek:

Use this, (http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html) perhaps.
Several of us already did that right after 10.5.2 came out and also called Apple and sent requests via the Apple discussion forum asking Apple to please give us an option, even if its a hidden option like a CLI command. Then the waiting and no information, then nothing...

Hardcoding menu transparency is bad programming, its not *nix philosophy, its M$-ish. Its not only about transparent windows, its about having some control over the interface. Why would Apple go out of their way to keep people from changing some setting from the command line? They just took away a feature from Leopard and made it near impossible to change it back without a hack that theoretically could have included malicious code (however, we trust StratusFear).

In my case I'm also already using both OSes and this kind of stupid programming is a bad sign. People are downloading a hack off the internet to change menu transparency. This is a security issue too. With Ubuntu (compiz-fusion) it is very easy to add transparency to menus, for example, at any level you want and it will never be taken away. This applies to many, many things.

[macrem]

Just having to explain is another turn off...

I bought Leopard (and a new MBP, my third and probably last Apple laptop) with a feature that I liked and paid for that was just taken away unannounced. To get back it back, I am supposed to write and plea to Apple (which actually I did), search for other solutions/hacks, maintain a hacked system, defend my reasoning for a feature that should not have just been taken away to begin with. I explained my position on this clearly to Apple several months ago via the same link you sent and on the phone. Screw them, I have other options.

[PowerFullMac]

Several of us already did that right after 10.5.2 came out and also called Apple and sent requests via the Apple discussion forum asking Apple to please give us an option, even if its a hidden option like a CLI command. Then the waiting and no information, then nothing...

Hardcoding menu transparency is bad programming, its not *nix philosophy, its M$-ish. Its not only about transparent windows, its about having some control over the interface. Why would Apple go out of their way to keep people from changing some setting from the command line? They just took away a feature from Leopard and made it near impossible to change it back without a hack that theoretically could have included malicious code (however, we trust StratusFear).

In my case I'm also already using both OSes and this kind of stupid programming is a bad sign. People are downloading a hack off the internet to change menu transparency. This is a security issue too. With Ubuntu (compiz-fusion) it is very easy to add transparency to menus, for example, at any level you want and it will never be taken away. This applies to many, many things.

True, customising is very nice, but I wouldnt change OS becuase of it.

I had to hack the hell out of my iPod to put apps on it (I have 2.0 now so take that, Steve! :p

[TheSpaz]

How are we going to hack this now? The old hack doesn't work anymore.

[TheSpaz]

True, customising is very nice, but I wouldnt change OS becuase of it.

I had to hack the hell out of my iPod to put apps on it (I have 2.0 now so take that, Steve! :p

Although hacking your iPod is not illegal... downloading a private beta software is illegal... I just hope you know that.

[macrem]

How are we going to hack this now? The old hack doesn't work anymore.

StratusFear? :confused:

[richard.mac]

http://www.dmctalk.com/images/smilies/signs/hesaid.gif

***She ;)

Warning: 10.5.3 will not operate if you update with this hack applied.

How are we going to hack this now? The old hack doesn't work anymore.

so i havent installed 10.5.3 yet, should i reinstall the default files before updating?

i hope we can get the translucent menus back… i love them! :( StratusFear's files were from an Air, maybe if we try another type of Mac with 10.5.0 or 10.5.1?

[PowerFullMac]

Although hacking your iPod is not illegal... downloading a private beta software is illegal... I just hope you know that.

Maybe I am a registered developer?

Maybe I have a time machine and went forward to after the update was released and installed it!

Apple dont care who downloads their beta, anyway, its not like they are loosing money from it or anything

[thefunkymunky]

***She ;)
so i havent installed 10.5.3 yet, should i reinstall the default files before updating?

i hope we can get the translucent menus back… i love them! :( StratusFear's files were from an Air, maybe if we try another type of Mac with 10.5.0 or 10.5.1?

Definately disable the hack BEFORE updating to 10.5.3. I didn't and 10.5.3 failed to boot (stuck at the gray Apple loading screen) On investigating the crash logs I found out it had something to do with the translucent menus. I had to Archive and Install and combo update to 10.5.3. All working OK now. But no translucent menus :(

[richard.mac]

^aight cool thanks dude. i backed up the files just in case ;)