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thedommer
Feb 15, 2008, 08:48 AM
Hi,

my mac pro should be arriving in the next few weeks. just wondering if a 10,000 rpm drive matters that much and if raid matters that much. I have a pc right now and the main drive is 10,000 rpm. I've never had a drive less then that so I dont know if its really that much faster. also the mac does raid I think. so should I set 2 drives up in raid? will it be that much faster?

I was going to stick with the 320 standard one as my main drive and buy a 1TB as my time machine drive. Then I have a few 500 gig drives I was going to put in for other things. no raid though. I had raid on my PC for a while and it kept screwing up and ruining my life so I gave up on it. but maybe it will be more stable with the mac.

anyways let me know if it is really worth it to use the full potential of the computer. I basically am using this for everything in the adobe creative suite and Protools. so really everything media intensive :)

my config that I am receiving is:
2.8 (2 quads)
6 gigs ram ( 4 gigs bought online )
320 gig hard drive.

Oh and one ram question. should I have all 4 sticks on one of the two ram "cards" or should I have 2 on each.



urchinboy
Feb 15, 2008, 08:59 AM
I really think it depends on what you're planning to use it for. If you're doing lots of video editing for example, particularly with uncompressed high data rate stuff, you will benefit from having fast drives in some sort of RAID.

What kind of thing will you be doing?

urchinboy
Feb 15, 2008, 09:03 AM
Sorry, I'm such a gimp. I didn't read your post properly.

Yes. Use a RAID for media intensive stuff if you can. Although you'll need more than one drive.

A 10,000rpm drive does make a difference but running a couple of 7200 drives in asoftware based RAID 0 or 1 done from within disk utility should be quick enough for most stuff I reckon. Any more complex than that and you're getting into more expensive territory.

thedommer
Feb 15, 2008, 09:19 AM
what about getting a 10,000 rpm drive as OS drive?

I just want to make sure I do this right. Im spending this much on a computer. I just dont want the drives to be slowing it down.

barefeats
Feb 15, 2008, 09:35 AM
We did some testing last year comparing a pair of drives in a RAID 0 set (striped) to a single drive to see if there were gains to be had in boot time and app launch time. The gains, if any, were insignificant.

However, the 10K drives were faster than the 7K drives for booting. One of my colleagues who builds custom servers contends that the ultimate boot drive is one with low latency and short access/seek times. That's why the 10K SATA drives are faster. If you really want to get crazy, the 15K SAS or SCSI drives could be considered the ultimate boot drive. But it will cost you big bucks for low capacity SAS and SCSI drives (300GB max). Apple charges $800 for the SAS host adapter and $800 for the 300G 15K SAS drive

One idea is to boot from a small fast 10K or 15K drive. Then define a second, larger capacity 7K drive as the default user volume. Also, if you are a Photoshop CS3 jockey, a dedicated 10K SATA or 15K SAS or SCSI drive (or RAID 0 set) is the ultimate in scratch area.

thedommer
Feb 15, 2008, 09:50 AM
interesting.

10k drive as scratch. thats not a bad idea. what if I just get a 10k for scratch and keep boot on 7k

and if I use 10 k is boot what do you mean by user drive as 7k drive? you mean like documents and programs?

would 10k be better as boot or as scratch?

I only have 4 slots in the computer so if I have 2 10k drives I only have room for one raid setup (if its even necessary) which means I need to have a seperate external windows drive for all my microsoft fun??

time machine drive will be external anyways.

15k is insane. I cant afford that. :(

m1stake
Feb 15, 2008, 10:00 AM
Stay away from RAID0 unless you have time machine. I always thought that losing my hard drive wouldn't be a big deal and people blow it up. But when it actually happened to me it was a huge hassle, took a lot of time, and a lot of money getting the old data off the drive. I didn't even get all of it.

Just back your stuff up. Get 10,000RPM hard drives instead of RAID0, the WD Raptors have a 5 year warranty.

thedommer
Feb 15, 2008, 10:07 AM
yah thats the same thing I had with my raid. finiky. very easy to mess up. Im definately doing time machine. and if raid on mac is really reliable then I might do it....if its even worth it.

if the 10k drive for boot is good but not that amazing then I wont do it. It means I have to get a new drive and install the OS on that. bit of a hastle so if it doesnt do much I wont do it. However if my computer is going to be a bit snappier then Im in.

anyone else have experience with a 10k scratch? is it worth it? if I could only have one which is better 10k for OS or 10k for scratch?

if I dont do raid I can have 2 10k drives(1 os, 1 scratch). a 500 gig project drive, the 320 gig that comes with the computer as maybe windows drive and then a 1TB drive as external for time machine.

imacdaddy
Feb 15, 2008, 11:08 AM
Anyone running 10K raptors as boot in their new MP? Is it loud?

m1stake
Feb 15, 2008, 12:16 PM
I have one in my PC, it's not that loud.

jconly
Feb 15, 2008, 12:32 PM
Anyone running 10K raptors as boot in their new MP? Is it loud?

On my 3.0 10gb ram

im currently running a 10k raptors as my os drive. By that I mean the system directories

I then have a 7200 as my drive for all user data, that is my user directories.
then I have a applications folder on this drive for applications I install. The there is a symbolic link to my system apps folder.

Aside from the speed benefits
This way if my os ever gets corrupted or goes down or whatever, all I need to do is reinstall the os, and everything is back to normal. All my apps and settings and everything

Then I got two 10k raptors in raid 0 for scratch

shokunin
Feb 15, 2008, 12:40 PM
I use a 150gb raptor as my boot and bootcamp drive. While Raid 0 has it's risks, it also could have some advantages when you need large sequential reads/writes.

I have 2 Samsung F1 1 terabyte drives, where I have the first 300gb of each drive in Raid 0 (600gb Raid 0 Volume) and the other as a normal volume, so that you can get Raid 0 for when you need that, but the rest of the drive can be a regular single volume (2x700gb).

In my previous I mixed Raid 0 and Raid 1 on the same 2 drives, performance when I need it, but redundancy for the impotant stuff.

4God
Feb 15, 2008, 12:41 PM
...One idea is to boot from a small fast 10K or 15K drive. Then define a second, larger capacity 7K drive as the default user volume. ...

On my 3.0 10gb ram

im currently running a 10k raptors as my os drive. By that I mean the system directories

I then have a 7200 as my drive for all user data, that is my user directories.
then I have a applications folder on this drive for applications I install. The there is a symbolic link to my system apps folder.

Aside from the speed benefits
This way if my os ever gets corrupted or goes down or whatever, all I need to do is reinstall the os, and everything is back to normal. All my apps and settings and everything...


Okay, that's what I want to do. How on earth do you do that?

EDIT: Oh, and while I'm asking, how 'bout a pair of 150 gig raptors in raid0 for boot, a third drive for apps and user stuff and a fourth drive for scratch?
BTW, I'm all over Final Cut Studio except not a whole lot of Color.

jtblueberry
Feb 15, 2008, 12:48 PM
see www.barefeats.com and search for some hard drive speed tests.
They have good recommendations...obviously.
I got seagate barracuda 7200.11 1TB drives for my working drives. I'm thinking about upgrading my boot drive to barefeats recommended western digital which was fastest on small random read/writes for the money.
The boot drive that came with my new octo is a 500gb seagate 7200.10. I wish I would have kept the smallest option and upgraded.
To be honest I haven't felt my hard drives are slow by any means but since you're doing your homework you might as well be picky.
My point of view is fastest for the money...not absolute fastest...apply all this info to your budget.

4God
Feb 15, 2008, 01:03 PM
Well then, I think I'll just go with 1 raptor drive as boot and keep my other drives for apps and scratch. Now, how do I go about doing that? You know, do I just move my apps folder over to the other drive? How 'bout my home folder?

thedommer
Feb 15, 2008, 01:39 PM
someone recommended we use the 10k raptor as os and apps. then also use it as a scratch disk because once the apps are loaded they wont be accessing the drive that much so it is free to use it as a scratch disk. does that make sense?

thedommer
Feb 15, 2008, 01:53 PM
Well then, I think I'll just go with 1 raptor drive as boot and keep my other drives for apps and scratch. Now, how do I go about doing that? You know, do I just move my apps folder over to the other drive? How 'bout my home folder?

I feel like in this case if your only getting one drive the apps and scratch drive should be the 10k one and leave the OS on a 7200 drive. Dont know if that makes sense... just guessing :)

THX1139
Feb 15, 2008, 03:45 PM
I have one in my PC, it's not that loud.

Compared to what? A Jackhammer? I had one of those awful drives and sent it back. It's loud compared to "modern" drives (the Raptor is old technology) and it cost just as much with less storage space. Speed? Not that much faster than current drives. I tried one as a startup drive and did NOT notice any speed improvements.

imacdaddy
Feb 15, 2008, 09:25 PM
Compared to what? A Jackhammer? I had one of those awful drives and sent it back. It's loud compared to "modern" drives (the Raptor is old technology) and it cost just as much with less storage space. Speed? Not that much faster than current drives. I tried one as a startup drive and did NOT notice any speed improvements.

Thanks THX. I thought no one would answer me on this. On occasion, I do some amateur sound recordings and I don't want to hear the HD in the background.

I'm a heavy Photoshop user and planning to get 1 x 10K Raptor for scratch and Windows Vista. I only care for my MP to be quiet under OS X so when I'm not using Photoshop, will the drive be noisy on idle?

In my possession, I have 3 x 750 F1's. I was planning the following.
- 2 x 750 F1 in RAID0 for user dir, apps and data
- 1 x 150K 10K Raptor for Scratch and Windows
- 1 x 750 F1 in external for backup
- Boot drive still deciding. If 10K are loud then I need another option. Any suggestions? Or maybe use the 1 x 720 F1 which I had planned for external backup to be my OSX and Apps. I have a spare 500GB LaCie external...I can use this as backup.

Wild-Bill
Feb 15, 2008, 11:16 PM
Anyone running 10K raptors as boot in their new MP? Is it loud?

Yeah. I have a 74 gig Raptor. it's the ONLY thing I can hear from my machine. It's not too bad though. I also put it in Bay 4 so its as far away from me as possible. I've got a WD 400, Seatage 500, and WD 750 in there as well. The 400 is all for Windows (once I clone the Bootcamp XP off the 750 and put it on the first partition of the 400.

I eventually have to move my user volume to the 500. And the 750 is going to be all for Logic Studio. Gonna put the 320 it came with into the bottom optical bay one of these days as my backup drive.

orpheus1120
Feb 22, 2008, 01:30 AM
yah thats the same thing I had with my raid. finiky. very easy to mess up. Im definately doing time machine. and if raid on mac is really reliable then I might do it....if its even worth it.

if the 10k drive for boot is good but not that amazing then I wont do it. It means I have to get a new drive and install the OS on that. bit of a hastle so if it doesnt do much I wont do it. However if my computer is going to be a bit snappier then Im in.

anyone else have experience with a 10k scratch? is it worth it? if I could only have one which is better 10k for OS or 10k for scratch?

if I dont do raid I can have 2 10k drives(1 os, 1 scratch). a 500 gig project drive, the 320 gig that comes with the computer as maybe windows drive and then a 1TB drive as external for time machine.

Lets see if this suits you:-

2 10k drives = 1 for OS, 1 for dedicated scratch disk

1 500GB 7k drive with 2 partitions = 1 partition for user data, 1 partition for project drives

stock 320GB drive = bootcamp or whatever you need. I would however keep this stored and unused for emergency bootup or applecare repair time, and opt to buy another 500GB/1T 7k drive for projects/data/time machine instead.

External drive = optional, but if I'm doing it I'll do time machine here, since subsequent backups are incremental, so transfer time is bearable. Use a firewire 400/800 external. Take a look HERE (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010150414+131021336+1310221288+1035915635&name=USB+2.0+%2f+IEEE+1394a+%2f+1394b)

If you decide to use time machine on the external, then you can have 2 7k drives for your projects/user/bootcamp/data

I will stay away from RAID formation if I can, personal preference though.

Okay, that's what I want to do. How on earth do you do that?

EDIT: Oh, and while I'm asking, how 'bout a pair of 150 gig raptors in raid0 for boot, a third drive for apps and user stuff and a fourth drive for scratch?
BTW, I'm all over Final Cut Studio except not a whole lot of Color.

You just move the user folder from the 10k drive into the 7k one.

someone recommended we use the 10k raptor as os and apps. then also use it as a scratch disk because once the apps are loaded they wont be accessing the drive that much so it is free to use it as a scratch disk. does that make sense?

If you are a power photoshop user, it is always recommended to have a dedicated scratch disk, usually in the fastest drive you have. Useful guidelines for setting scratch disks are to avoid using the same drive where your operating system is installed, avoid using a drive where the files you edit are stored, and don't use network or removable drives for a scratch disk.

Virtuoso
Feb 22, 2008, 02:36 AM
Compared to what? A Jackhammer? I had one of those awful drives and sent it back. It's loud compared to "modern" drives (the Raptor is old technology) and it cost just as much with less storage space. Speed? Not that much faster than current drives. I tried one as a startup drive and did NOT notice any speed improvements.

I have to agree with this. I have about 20 WD RE drives ranging from 500Gb to 1Tb all of which are very quiet. I bought a 150Gb Raptor to use as a boot drive and the seek noise made me think the drive was faulty. :eek:

It's really not worth the premium and it's only marginally faster than the latest WD 7200rpm models.

orpheus1120
Feb 22, 2008, 03:30 AM
I have to agree with this. I have about 20 WD RE drives ranging from 500Gb to 1Tb all of which are very quiet. I bought a 150Gb Raptor to use as a boot drive and the seek noise made me think the drive was faulty. :eek:

It's really not worth the premium and it's only marginally faster than the latest WD 7200rpm models.

Hmm... is the seek noise that unbearable? I've never used a raptor before so.. I mean honestly, how much faster is the raptor compared to the 7200rpm ones? Is it speed noticeable?