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MacBytes
Oct 26, 2003, 07:29 AM
Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Open Memo to Apple Computer by Proteron (Developer of Lightswitch) (http://proteron.com/liteswitchx/openmemo.php)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by arn

edesignuk
Oct 26, 2003, 07:38 AM
Very true, and very well put. I'd have hit the roof if I have developed it and been given zero credit for it.

Lancetx
Oct 26, 2003, 08:37 AM
Oh please. :rolleyes: So why is Proteron not giving Microsoft the credit they deserve for taking the idea from them first then too? Hypocrites. As with the fast user switching, Apple got the idea from Microsoft who has had the alt-tab switching feature in Windows for many years. After all the copying M$ has done from Apple over the years, it was about time Apple took a couple from Windows too I say. As for Proteron, it's just sour grapes since they won't be able to price gouge Mac users for a free Windows feature any longer.

Knox
Oct 26, 2003, 08:41 AM
The problem with their complaint is that what they implemented is so basic a functionality that anything that Apple implemented could be seen to be similar. In fact, Apple's implementation is not a "near pixel duplication" anyway - there is no Preference Pane for a start, there is no contextual menus in the switcher, the name of the application is under the icon and not in the middle. The only similarities are that it's on a transparent grey background (which given the transparent grey backgrounds for the other icons like volume change isn't exactly unexpected) and that it contains icons in a horizontal line (which again isn't exactly unexpected...)

Of course, their real complaint is that they won't be getting many $15 from panther users, which I guess you can't blame them for.

edesignuk
Oct 26, 2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Lancetx
Oh please. :rolleyes: So why is Proteron not giving Microsoft the credit they deserve for taking the idea from them first then too? Hypocrites. As with the fast user switching, Apple got the idea from Microsoft who has had the alt-tab switching feature in Windows for many years. After all the copying M$ has done from Apple over the years, it was about time Apple took a couple from Windows too I say. As for Proteron, it's just sour grapes since they won't be able to price gouge Mac users for a free Windows feature any longer.
Have you ever seen LiteSwitch X???? What Apple have implemented is a (near) exact copy of their software. Know what your talking about before you post, it's not the alt+tab they are complaining about, it's the way it is displayed.

andrewlandry
Oct 26, 2003, 09:33 AM
I must say, when I first saw the new application switcher, I assumed that Apple must have bought Lightswitch. And then I remembered what happened with Sherlock turning into Watson with no acknowledgement.

Seems pretty crazy to me.

matthew24
Oct 26, 2003, 10:57 AM
I respect their attitude towards Apple a lot, you recognise they are truely Mac faithful.

This letter tells me that Apple should be really mindful of their third party developers. But then again MS was the first to implement this.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

fraeone
Oct 26, 2003, 11:20 AM
Yeah, imitation is the sincerist form of flattery, and Lightswitch X was imitating the hell out of Windows. It sucks that Apple has eclipsed them, but they shouldn't pretend like they had some super original idea that was stolen.

"For tens of thousands of users the feature has existed since May 2002. A developer at Proteron first conceived of it. Proteron developed and published it."

Uhm, no. I believe Windows 95 had it, and maybe even Windows 3.11. The other part I find funny is that on their homepage it says : "Dear Apple you forgot some features" Well, if Apple only has a subset of their features, than Lightswitch is still a very viable product, maybe even a more viable one after this publicity stunt.

What we arrive at is that Apple 'borrowed' the idea of icons in the middle of the screen from Windows. They then 'borrowed' the idea of being able to hide (h key) or minimize (m key) from the Lightswitch guys.

If Proteron can't even acknowledge that they got their inspiration for the product from a third party, then why in the world should Apple act any differently?

redAPPLE
Oct 26, 2003, 01:48 PM
hey. remember that rubber duck pic from apple? they stole that from me too...

Lancetx
Oct 26, 2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by edesignuk
Have you ever seen LiteSwitch X???? What Apple have implemented is a (near) exact copy of their software. Know what your talking about before you post, it's not the alt+tab they are complaining about, it's the way it is displayed.

Know what I'm talking about before I post? Have you ever seen Windows and used the alt-tab switching? So how else would they display it? Maybe in the same location on the screen where Microsoft has been doing it in Windows for years??? The point is, they copied Microsoft's idea, now these guys are upset that Apple decided to implement it now as well. Proteron is claiming that they "first conceived of it" and that is absolutely false. If anyone deserves any "credit" for originality here, it's Microsoft (maybe for one of the only times ever).

crenz
Oct 26, 2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by fraeone
They then 'borrowed' the idea of being able to hide (h key) or minimize (m key) from the Lightswitch guys.

No, pressing "h" and "q" already works on Jaguar. Pressing "m" supposedly doesn't work on Panther anymore, I thought?

Rower_CPU
Oct 26, 2003, 05:27 PM
As far as I've seen, Proteron does not state anywhere that they created this UI feature. They are taking issue with Apple's implementation, which looks almost exactly the same as theirs.

In their words, it's a "near pixel duplication".

punter
Oct 26, 2003, 08:50 PM
well if apple credits these guys with the design then they open themselves up to legal action. It's like admitting they took the idea. Similar to how the australian government won't say the word "sorry" to the aboriginal people for barging in 200 years ago. But I digress.

I also agree it's a pertty simple implementation, and probably pretty hard to think of a different way to do it.

I don't like the idea of apple eating up its developer's markets though... except for the fact it means all these cool features are now bundled with the System! I guess developers will have to innovate some more!

simX
Oct 27, 2003, 12:49 AM
Actually, it's not a "near pixel duplication". That's an outright lie. If you look at the features for LiteSwitch X, LiteSwitch X is much more full-featured. It allows you to keep the switcher up without releasing command, you can use contextual menus, and you can even drag-and-drop stuff on top of it. Plus, Panther doesn't dim hidden applications, and it doesn't put an X through applications that are marked to be quit.

"[N]ear pixel duplication", my foot. This is just an issue of sour grapes. Panther's application switcher may look like LiteSwitch X, but it's nothing like it feature-wise. So Proteron has no right to complain.

dfcster
Mar 18, 2009, 05:38 AM
Dudes,
Relax.. I have been using Apple+Tab since :apple: OS8 maybe even :apple: OS7,
Many, Many, Many haxie companies over the years have addressed that one,
In regards to 10.x.x; what about ASM.. that was released way before LSX...

I happen to own Lite Switch X,
And am as with MaxMenus upset about Proterons lack of development.
These products have not been updated since 10.5.0 at max maybe even since 10.4.9. (Their web site has been offline for ages)!

I love MaxMenus, even-though it does need a major update (uni-bin), it is the best start menu/menu system out there, way better than fruitmenu or UnSanity's other menu system (I own all of those also).

But Lite Switch X i use just for the "ff" feature that force quits an app when I am running something that needs an update that is not available making it not quit efficiently or just hang a lot. CS4 before the latest updates for instance.. Otherwise I disable it and just use the built-in one as it sucks a lot less resources than LSX.

Anyhoot back to the Application Switcher theme,
Who stole what from who? Huh!

I admit that Proteron added some nice features to the base of something that has exsisted for ages.. and ages... and ages,
on both Microsoft and Apple based PCs!

:D

Oh addition,
Proteron should be careful,
Apple own the GUI,
They implemented the transparent floating window,
They have not implemented the resize ability...
Proteron could get sued for stealing the base GUI from Apple.. No!?
Where would Proteron be without OS X?!
They should just stick to making a great MaxMenus!!!!!!

zelmo
Mar 18, 2009, 06:55 AM
You realize this thread is going on six years old, right?