Toshiba To Stop HD DVD Player Production

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Reuters is relaying reports (http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSL1627196120080216) from Asia that Toshiba will cease production and development of HD DVD players, essentially abandoning the platform.

Toshiba had been the single largest proponent of HD DVD hardware. Earlier this year Warner announced it selected Blu-ray exclusively (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/04/hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-battle-over-warner-switches-to-blu-ray/), which gave Blu-ray an overwhelming majority of studio support. With recent conversions by Netflix (http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSWEN388420080211) and Wal-Mart (http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSWEN397220080215) to Blu-ray-only stock, key elements to the end of the format war are in place: content, hardware, and distribution.

Apple has been a member (http://www.macrumors.com/2005/03/10/apple-adopts-blu-ray-technology/) of the Blu-ray consortium's board of directors since 2005, but has not publicly announced their Blu-ray plans. It is likely that Apple's hesitation about releasing any Blu-ray products has been at least partially due to the ongoing format war.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/16/toshiba-to-stop-hd-dvd-player-production/)

[Big-TDI-Guy]

Really?!? I guess it might actually be official, then, eh?

[kster]

i for one welcome our new Blu Ray overlords

Universal
Paramount
Dreamworks

the only 3 studios left on HD-DVD

[MacTO]

Now I can go ahead and buy a Blu-ray DVD player... :D

Cheers! :apple:

[skorpien]

This is good news... This further justifies my PS3 purchase...

[CalmEnvy]

Finally, the format war is over. Although I'm a Blu-Ray fan (have 26 movies so far, have had my PS3 for 3 months).

[La Porta]

Thank god, finally - BluRay sooner rather than later in Mac Pros now.

[kskill]

apple was delaying the new mbp until the format war was over. who else is super stoked to watch blu-rays on a 15" screen?!

[berkleeboy210]

apple was delaying the new mbp until the format war was over. i'm super stoked to watch blu-rays on a 15" screen!

This Tuesday, Right? Sorry, Just had to do that. :apple:

[tothelimit]

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the writing has been on the wall for HD-DVD for a while. It was clearly a matter of time before BluRay was the "official" format war victor. I'm still not sure apple will jump on board fully - perhaps just a BTO option. They seem to be seriously pushing the idea that optical media is a thing of the past.

[La Porta]

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the writing has been on the wall for HD-DVD for a while. It was clearly a matter of time before BluRay was the "official" format war victor. I'm still not sure apple will jump on board fully - perhaps just a BTO option. They seem to be seriously pushing the idea that optical media is a thing of the past.

Until we have easy, insanely cheap flash drives for backup that are basically disposable (like DVDs), we need the discs. We can always stream video, back up to time capsule, but in the end we still need media for a true backup.

[mcarnes]

They seem to be seriously pushing the idea that optical media is a thing of the past.

True, and it's a real problem, imo. I love Apple, but quality has really taken a hit because of them. iTunes is the reason SACD failed, and blu-ray won't be developed nearly to the point it would have if movie downloads take off. It's a weird irony, because Apple always meant quality, at least to me.

[Zwhaler]

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Last night on a Japanese news channel I saw a report on this. I knew Blu ray would win, so I'm glad I bought my PS3 instead of waiting.

[Nermal]

"Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD." - That was from almost three years ago (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html) and we have yet to see support for either format in OS X. One day...

[Big-TDI-Guy]

Well, I agree with the "experts" in that this format won't be long lived. The next war is Optical Media vs Downloadable Content.

AppleTV vs BluRay.

Lets hope Apple embraces BRD on data storage and backup merit, and not view it as a competitor to Apple TV.

[God^Cent]

apple was delaying the new mbp until the format war was over. who else is super stoked to watch blu-rays on a 15" screen?!

I'm not particularly excited about watching blu-ray on a 15" screen, ( its way too small and wouldn't make much of a noticeable difference) But hooking up the mbp to a 42" 1080p tv screen will look amazing, and give me an excuse to save some money and not buy the blu-ray dvd player.:D

On a side note is this a sign that I should buy stock in any and all things blu-ray?

[Nugget]

Although I wished for HD-DVD to "win" I'm really glad that the marketplace confusion has come to an end. We're all better off with this behind us. Downloadable content is a long way off and BluRay is positioned to carry the market for many years.

[Stang68]

Now I can finally go out and buy a player! Yay!!! Hi-Def Matrix!

[LaDirection]

Although I wished for HD-DVD to "win" I'm really glad that the marketplace confusion has come to an end. We're all better off with this behind us. Downloadable content is a long way off and BluRay is positioned to carry the market for many years.

Why did you wish the inferior format to win??

[Nugget]

Why did you wish the inferior format to win??

Because I believe the issue is more nuanced than you appear to think it is (was?).

BluRay was better for capacity.
HD-DVD was better for consumers. Less Sony, less DRM, no region codes, and cheaper prices.

[Dany M]

Why did you wish the inferior format to win??

Why do you wish to questions someones opinions?

I am glad that the "war" is over, maybe apple can actually step up.

[Big-TDI-Guy]

Long way off? I differ on that thought. It'd be here today, as we have the capacity to do so... Thing is, we just need an "ipod" to kick it off. Maybe Apple TV will be it - who knows. But once we have the device in the living room - it'll catch fire quickly, and "hard media" will smolder.

Trust me, I'd rather have hard media myself - but that won't stop it from going away.

[La Porta]

Because I believe the issue is more nuanced than you appear to think it is (was?).

BluRay was better for capacity.
HD-DVD was better for consumers. Less Sony, less DRM, no region codes, and cheaper prices.

Why are region codes so bad? Prices always drop so price is never really an issue. More capacity is everything for me at this point.

[GreatDrok]

You know, a lot of people are writing HD DVD off now but there are quite a lot of films out on the format that will now be pretty cheap to buy and the quality is just as high as Blu-ray. I bought into HD DVD because it was cheap to buy the player and I figured they would still play even if/when Blu-ray won. Oddly enough, I was a Blu-ray supporter but it was too expensive and restricted when it came down to buying films worth watching. All the good films are Region A and I live in a Region B country where the price of players and discs are prohibitive.

Anyway, just like my LD collection which grew quite a bit once DVD was launched, I think I'll be buying a bunch of HD DVDs in the next few months as shops and Amazon.com clear their stocks. Its not like the discs will self destruct just like my LD collection which still plays fine.

I wonder what will happen to the budget BD/HD DVD combi players that have been announced? Also, I wonder what will happen in countries other than the US where HD DVD has a number of films that are BD exclusive in the US? Ah, whatever, as long as I get a Region A BD player I'm golden :D

[zentraedi]

iTunes is the reason SACD failed, and blu-ray won't be developed nearly to the point it would have if movie downloads take off. It's a weird irony, because Apple always meant quality, at least to me.

Either you have bad memory or are delusional. Both DVD-A and SACD were dead long before the iTunes media store.

[tk421]

True, and it's a real problem, imo. I love Apple, but quality has really taken a hit because of them. iTunes is the reason SACD failed, and blu-ray won't be developed nearly to the point it would have if movie downloads take off. It's a weird irony, because Apple always meant quality, at least to me.

iTunes was NOT the reason SACD failed. MP3's and downloading were already big before iTunes. The iTunes Music Store was launched 4 years after the introduction of SACD, and then it was Mac only for a time.

Besides MP3's, SACD failed because most people didn't want to replace CD's and buy new CD players (the quality wasn't that much better to the average joe with an inexpensive system). On top of that, there was a competing format, DVD-Audio. Sound familiar? Kind of like how many people (even folks with HDTV's) don't really care to replace their DVD players, and were confused by two competing HD formats.

In any case, I'm happy that Blu-Ray won. Still a bit expensive for me, but now prices will go down quicker!

[Spanky Deluxe]

Why did you wish the inferior format to win??

He said he wanted *HD DVD* to win, not BluRay. :rolleyes: While its a big shame that HD DVD didn't win since it really is a better format imo, its good that one has come out victorious. I just wonder how long it'll take for all the HD DVD only titles to become available on BluRay. I'm still glad I've been dual format for a good while now. I have noticed recently that BluRay is getting easier to get hold of than HD DVD in terms of bargains, 3 for 2 offers etc.

[Nugget]

Long way off? I differ on that thought. It'd be here today, as we have the capacity to do so...

You can't have it both ways. Look at this thread... La Porta says "capacity is everything to me". If HD-DVDs 35GB is insufficient then we're clearly a long, long way off from realistic downloadable content. The only way iTMS can claim HD content is by scaling back to 720p and compressing the ever living crap out of the content. The quality just isn't there.

Consumer broadband isn't even remotely close to being able to sustain 30-50GB movie downloads. The quality difference is tangible and driving HD adoption. You're just not going to get that over the wire any time soon.

[Nugget]

Why are region codes so bad?

Oddly enough, I was a Blu-ray supporter but it was too expensive and restricted when it came down to buying films worth watching. All the good films are Region A and I live in a Region B country...

La Porta, meet GreatDrok. I think he can shed a lot of light on the situation for you. :)

[Spanky Deluxe]

Why are region codes so bad? Prices always drop so price is never really an issue. More capacity is everything for me at this point.

Region codes are bad because why the **** should we have to wait two to three months to pay twice the amount for a film that is in the same language, packaging etc. It doesn't cost that much to translate a film from "American" to English after all!

I have more HD DVDs in my collection because they're region free and buy many of them via Import. Bluray is *significantly* more expensive in terms of films and players, even when you get blurays as part of 3-for-2 deals here in the UK.

[GreatDrok]

Why are region codes so bad? Prices always drop so price is never really an issue. More capacity is everything for me at this point.

You obviously don't live in one of the second class countries where films take forever to appear discs for our region and cost a flipping fortune compared with the US. Worse, the quality of transfers is often sub-par and they may even miss out extras and so forth. I have always bought multi-standard kit because the US releases were released earlier and were cheaper and better.

Lacking region codes was the best part of HD DVD as I have bought loads of films from the US. To do the same with BD I will have to import a US PS3 or standalone Region A BD player. Stupid extra expense but to be tied to Region B releases is unacceptable and the region free BD players I have seen were horrendously over priced and likely to be rendered useless by a firmware update in the future. Why BD had to have region codes is beyond me.

[La Porta]

Foot in my mouth to a degree about the region thing. That comes from never having to actually worry about it :rolleyes:.

As for the capacity, I say it's everything because I'm not even thinking about movies. HD movies will fit on both. The day that we get BR-R and BR-RW drives in our Macs is what I'm talking about. In that respect, the actual physical media will be in our favor because by that time prices will have dropped anyway, and we will have more room to work with.

[Spanky Deluxe]

Why BD had to have region codes is beyond me.

Due to a money grabbing company named S*** and a couple of money grabbing film studios. The rest don't care.

Foot in my mouth to a degree about the region thing. That comes from never having to actually worry about it :rolleyes:.

As for the capacity, I say it's everything because I'm not even thinking about movies. HD movies will fit on both. The day that we get BR-R and BR-RW drives in our Macs is what I'm talking about. In that respect, the actual physical media will be in our favor because by that time prices will have dropped anyway, and we will have more room to work with.

I really don't think BR-R and BR-RW is going to catch on in the computer market. The only thing people need that much storage for (most of the time) is video and most people will not be dealing (personally) with that much video. For large backups, data transfers etc, external HDs have become so cheap these days and easy to use that they're a no brainer. How many applications need that much space? No games use that much, no PS3 games even use that much space. A DVD or two is more than enough space and a teeny fraction of the price of a bluray disk and it will remain that way for a long time.

[GreatDrok]

Foot in my mouth to a degree about the region thing. That comes from never having to actually worry about it :rolleyes:.

As for the capacity, I say it's everything because I'm not even thinking about movies. HD movies will fit on both. The day that we get BR-R and BR-RW drives in our Macs is what I'm talking about. In that respect, the actual physical media will be in our favor because by that time prices will have dropped anyway, and we will have more room to work with.

I gave up on burning discs a long time ago. I have superdrives in most of my Macs and rarely use them. The capacity of a DVD, even a dual layer one, is a fraction of what I have on my drives. HD DVD and BD aren't enough of an improvement compared with the size of drives which have increased in capacity far more since 1998 when DVDs started to get popular. Heck, in 1998 my laptop had a 3GB drive in it and that was big. Today I have a 100GB drive in my MBP. You're better off sticking a 2.5" drive in a Firewire case for moving big chunks of data about and for backup I just mirror onto a second drive.

The difference in capacity between HD DVD and BD is neither here nor there because neither is big enough for anything more than entertainment.

[La Porta]

I really don't think BR-R and BR-RW is going to catch on in the computer market. The only thing people need that much storage for (most of the time) is video and most people will not be dealing (personally) with that much video. For large backups, data transfers etc, external HDs have become so cheap these days and easy to use that they're a no brainer. How many applications need that much space? No games use that much, no PS3 games even use that much space. A DVD or two is more than enough space and a teeny fraction of the price of a bluray disk and it will remain that way for a long time.

I agree with what you say, but discs have always been key for backup simply because they are inert, and don't have motor-driven platters, read/write heads, etc. that can fail. As for the storage...at least 15 years ago, you were hard pressed to fill up a CD (let alone DVD) with everything on your computer. Things catch up.

[chr1s60]

HD DVD is dead and has been since Warner decided to go with Blu-ray. Any companies still hanging around supporting them are pretty much wasting their time and money. I am guessing that all the delusional companies still with HD DVD will make the switch by July or August.

[bdkennedy1]

Let the bitching from the people that bought HDDVD players begin.

It's your own fault for not waiting.

[mrpither]

Now I can finally go out and buy a player! Yay!!! Hi-Def Matrix!

hi-def matrix trilogy currently only available on hd-dvd... :cool:

[Spanky Deluxe]

I agree with what you say, but discs have always been key for backup simply because they are inert, and don't have motor-driven platters, read/write heads, etc. that can fail. As for the storage...at least 15 years ago, you were hard pressed to fill up a CD (let alone DVD) with everything on your computer. Things catch up.

I really don't think Blu-rays hold enough space to be of value. Who is going to backup to Blu-rays? I'm certainly not. I've got 2TB of data on this machine here, no way would I do that. For sure, nearly all of that data isn't all that important. I could, in theory, back up all my vital data to Blu-rays but switching disks and using backup software etc is so clumsy these days and hard to use. Why would I want to spend ~£300 on a Blu-Ray recorder for backup that can write 25GB disks at ~£8 a pop when I could buy a 1TB Apple Time Capsule for £329 and have OS X seamlessly backup all my data to a secure place somewhere in my home.
The only people I can see who would find Blu-Ray to be of use to them would be 1) Some professionals that regularly need to send ~20gb of data to people and for whom all the other people in the industry have Blu-Ray readers, 2) People who want to rip and copy Blu-Ray disks and 3) People that want to watch Blu-Rays on their computers. The last one would only need a reader, number two would only need a reader for most people (since they'd compress it to a size that'd fit on a DVD) leaving only the first one. Not exactly a massive target audience.

Edit: Also don't think that just because optical disks have no moving parts that they don't degrade. Home-burnt optical disks have about a 5 year shelf life before they literally start to fall apart. :-S

[chr1s60]

Let the bitching from the people that bought HDDVD players begin.

It's your own fault for not waiting.

And for not listening. When the "war" started the majority of "technology experts" I read from, predict Blu-ray would win the war. The addition of Blu-ray to PS3 made me believe that there was already a slim, slim shot for HD DVD.

[tk421]

hi-def matrix trilogy currently only available on hd-dvd... :cool:

I think that was his point. If HD-DVD is dead, surely they'll move Matrix to Blu-ray?

[Spanky Deluxe]

I think that was his point. If HD-DVD is dead, surely they'll move Matrix to Blu-ray?

They probably will although it could take a while. If Toshiba is actually going to stop production then HD DVD players are going to cost peanuts. They'll probably still carry on with the 5 free HD DVDs deal too.

Other big news titles that will need to get re-released on Bluray (and which will probably take ages to switch over) include Transformers and Star Trek Remastered.

Edit: It will definitely take a while. For one, all the extra features and menus etc will (well, should) have to be recreated in Blu-Ray Java - one of the big reason why the people that make the disks (not the film studios, the little guys working on creating menus etc) dislike Blu-Ray so much. I wouldn't expect these films to be released on BluRay for at least 6-12 months.

[La Porta]

Edit: Also don't think that just because optical disks have no moving parts that they don't degrade. Home-burnt optical disks have about a 5 year shelf life before they literally start to fall apart. :-S[/QUOTE]

Perhaps in lab tests....I've got stuff friends burned for me 10 years ago still working. Not to mention all of those 3.5 and 5 1/4th floppies that should have all lost their magnetic charge by now.

Safe to say, we all have different priorities for why we want the formats, and what we will get from them.

[techage14]

now that the format 'war' is over, apple might start putting blu-ray drives into their Mac Pros....

[Nermal]

Let the bitching from the people that bought HDDVD players begin.

It's your own fault for not waiting.

I disagree. First, read GreatDrok's post above about how region B movies and players are overpriced. With that in mind, consider that my HD DVD player and 18 discs still cost less than a BR player on its own. I don't think I made a bad decision at all.

[ltldrummerboy]

Glad to hear it. Now I just wait a year until prices are around $100.

[FX120]

I am excited about getting a BD-RW drive when the price drops a little more. I currently backup all my critical data onto about 10DL DVD's every month or so, and it will be so much easier and much more compact to just burn 2 50GB BD disks.

Even though I back everything up to my home server nightly, I still feel that it's good to keep an optical backup in the gun safe in case of a fire or whatnot.

[Danksi]

I noticed today (http://kootenaymacuser.blogspot.com/2008/02/for-those-wondering-why-wal-mart-is.html) that our local Wal-Mart was flogging HD-DVD players off, for CDN$49. Not sure how much the movies are, but they had a bunch of them front-and-centre.

[juice78]

I'm wondering what effect this will have on the resale value of current hardware. Mac hardware generally retain a good resale/used value over time, except when there are major revisions affecting multiple products--the Intel switch e.g.

Thoughts?

[pgwalsh]

Finally, the format war is over. Although I'm a Blu-Ray fan (have 26 movies so far, have had my PS3 for 3 months).
I'm pretty happy as well. I haven't bought a single DVD or HD disc since it began and now I can start my collection of HD movies. I don't know how many people waited like I did, but it's been a while and I certainly wasn't going to waste my money on the old format.

Now I can purchase a blu-ray player and an HD preprocessor. Just bought and HDTV, so good timing. :D

[Agathon]

Today is a good day for laughing at all the Sony haters.

Today HD DVD has fallen. Next year it will be the turn of the Xbox 360.

[macfan881]

the hd blu ray war was over when warner went excslousive i think now that since blu ray has won i think we will see blu ray options for macs in the next refresh line and now just bring Transformers Cloverfield and beowoulf to blu ray and ill be happy about this news :D

[macfan881]

Today is a good day for laughing at all the Sony haters.

Today HD DVD has fallen. Next year it will be the turn of the Xbox 360.

and on that news january the ps3 passed all video game system in sales last month :cool:

[shigzeo]

Why are region codes so bad? Prices always drop so price is never really an issue. More capacity is everything for me at this point.

let me guess, you live in a country where all the big movies are produced and always at low prices. let me guess. you pay no more than usd 20$ or so for a dvd. let me guess, all the same will be true for blu ray when prices come down a bit. for the rest of the world (even canada) prices are dire. 30-50 usd for a dvd. so with bloody region coding, hardware b cannot play disk a and consumer is forced to pay double to watch the same film a half year after it comes to the usa.

region is rubbish

[GreatDrok]

I disagree. First, read GreatDrok's post above about how region B movies and players are overpriced. With that in mind, consider that my HD DVD player and 18 discs still cost less than a BR player on its own. I don't think I made a bad decision at all.

Indeed. I first saw HD video back in 1992 on a 50" back projection system running off an HDMAC source (old analogue HD format that never took off) and was simply blown away by the quality. I have wanted HD video at home for a very long time and moved from the UK just as Sky HD started. These days you really can't get a TV that isn't HD and I have an HD projector too. DVD looks OK on it but I really wanted that 1992 experience so when the XBox360 drive appeared it was so cheap I figured what the heck. I expected the PS3 to be a great way to get BD to be a success and I will get one sooner or later but there are so few Blu-ray discs available here in NZ that it isn't worth bothering yet. That, and the PS3 costs about double what it does in the US.

Anyway, for much less than I paid for my first DVD player in 99, or for my first LD player back in 92 (PAL/NTSC Pioneer), I got an HD DVD player and have enjoyed all the films I have been able to buy. They won't magically disappear and if a UP5500 from the US is in my future then I will be able to play Region A BDs and my HD DVDs so I might as well keep buying. Amazon is doing quite a large number of HD DVDs for under US$15. Compare that with the $30 I used to pay for LDs back in the day.......

[iDrinkKoolAid]

apple needs to incorporate some blu-ray drives in their macs. even the dell 1530 xps laptop has a slot-load blu-ray drive nowadays... :rolleyes:

[Agathon]

and on that news january the ps3 passed all video game system in sales last month :cool:

Yes. The Sony haters are sure having to eat some today.

And the opportunities for gloating are just going to increase!!!

[overanalyzer]

As far as I'm concerned, I've been there and done that with buying physical optical media in building a DVD collection. I'm not bothering this time around. I'll buy my Blu-Ray player and keep renting from Netflix until it's time to switch to all streaming/download from Netflix, Apple, or whomever comes along with the best service and pricing. Here's hoping that mass production drops Blu-Ray player prices 50% in 6 months or less. :)

[tk421]

and on that news january the ps3 passed all video game system in sales last month :cool:

Nope, not yet. Take another look. ;)

[xStep]

... for the rest of the world (even canada) prices are dire. 30-50 usd for a dvd.
Canada pricing is competitive with the U.S. Sometimes the prices are better in Canadian stores. Unfortunately I can't speak for mail ordering.

[cisco1138]

Thank god, finally - BluRay sooner rather than later in Mac Pros now.

I was under the impression that BluRay will not display a full 1920 x 1080p without using HDMI. Something to do with HDCP.

[shigzeo]

yes, there are a few instances when a dvd is reasonably priced in canada, but that is not often. every time i visit the states, i notice all audio and movie content much cheaper from just about every store. there are bargain basement prices you get in canada as well but the 20-25 dollar dvd is rare.

multiply that in japan, europe (i don' tknow much about anywhere else) where finding dvd for less than 35$ is a fun run

[CBJammin103]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

Looking forward to LOTR and The Matrix!

[Michael CM1]

Until we have easy, insanely cheap flash drives for backup that are basically disposable (like DVDs), we need the discs. We can always stream video, back up to time capsule, but in the end we still need media for a true backup.

Amen. You can get 4.7GB single-layer recordable DVDs for under $1. I recently bought a 2GB flash drive for about $20. Do the math.

This whole digital download fancy for video is WAY ahead of its time. Audio was able to do it because people like me can store an entire library of music on less than half a 30GB iPod. Video takes up much more space (especially when you start talking HD, even 720p), so until someone can compress video better or cut the prices of flash memory by about 1000%, you're going to need optical drives.

[Marx55]

Great news. The war is over. When Macs with Blu-ray playback and Blu-ray Rewritable SuperDrive (great for backups and to move large quantities of data on a small media)? And I mean as cheap as the current SuperDrive.

[Michael CM1]

I was under the impression that BluRay will not display a full 1920 x 1080p without using HDMI. Something to do with HDCP.

I know that's true when you're talking about home theater (component won't do it). I don't know what the deal is in the computing world.

As for whomever made the comment about watching HD movies on a 15" screen, it ain't about that. It's about being able to use the movies I have on Blu-ray Disc only (the Harry Potter movies, The Simpsons Movie, Lost Season 3) on another device. Actually, it's about wanting to rip them with HandBrake so I can port them. I'm guessing that a lot of you out there like to buy the hard copies on DVD and then rip them to your computer. Well, Blu-ray Discs are exactly the same. They just look a whole lot better than DVDs.

If you can't tell the difference in HD quality and you have all the HD stuff, watch an MLS soccer game on ESPN2HD this year and then watch another one two days later on Fox Soccer Channel in SD. Same with college basketball on your regional channel and then during March on CBS.

No frickin' comparison.

[SeaFox]

Now I can go ahead and buy a Blu-ray DVD player... :D
Cheers! :apple:

No, wait for BluRay 2.0 players to come out. Unless you're buying a PS3 (they'll be upgradeable).

[sconnor99]

Don't care who won as long as there is just one format to develop for.

I have both systems and I think BluRay is a better user experience than HDDVD

Hate the region coding though!

[ReanimationLP]

Amen. You can get 4.7GB single-layer recordable DVDs for under $1.

A dollar.

Hell, most of the time you can find 25 packs of decent media (Sony, TDK, Memorex) for 7-8 bucks a pack.

So around 35 cents a disc. You get 110GB of storage in that 25 pack spindle.

(DVDs format out to 4.38 GB)

[CmdrLaForge]

I am really happy that this format war seems to be over. At least for the consumer.

Regarding Apple - I am not so sure if they will support BluRay. The comments they made indicate that they think that downloads are the future.

On the other side - their computers are used by many content creators (like me) and I want to create BlueRay media.

I don't think that the next Macbook Pro will have BlueRay because the Mac Pro hasn't got it either.

[SiliconAddict]

I hope I can get Battlestar Galactica Season one and Star Trek: TOS Season 1 for a song. Screw the "war". I'm not dropping my HD DVD player. It can sit along side a BR player whenever the damn format gets below the "magic" $200 price point. Right now the cheapest BR player is around $300 which is too much. I got my HD DVD player last fall for $160.
I'm more then willing to stock up on HD DVD disks while BR gets its crap sorted out....and when I say crap I mean the interactive features that most BR players can't support yet because they can't connect to the net. Way to back an unfinished spec guys.... :rolleyes:

Anyways. I'm glad this is over one way or another. Would have rather have had HD DVD win. I have some friends who live in Japan who could have gone on an Anime shopping spree for me. Since HD DVD is region free and BR is not....would have been nice. *shrugs*

[smiddlehurst]

Today is a good day for laughing at all the Sony haters.

Today HD DVD has fallen. Next year it will be the turn of the Xbox 360.

Can I ask a question here that's been bugging me for some time? Why, in the name of $Deity, do people get so fanatical about a frickin' MEDIA FORMAT!?!

Okay, I can kinda get the whole Apple/Microsoft thing that some people indulge in (even if it does seem stupid and pointless, but I digress) but the topic of which shiny silver discs will be triumphant has generated more wasted pixels than Britney Spears latest trauma. And the really weird thing is, in my opinion of course, those people celebrating the death of HD-DVD don't actually have a finished product to buy yet.

Oh sure, you can get a PS3 which will be firmware upgradeable to profile 2 when it finally gets released but unless you've got an amp that takes HDMI input forget about getting true HD sound out of the thing. All of the standalone players not only cost a pretty big chunk of dosh but you're going to be stuck with a profile 1.1 or even 1.0 machine so you won't get the full benefit out of discs in less than a years time. And, of course, media prices are currently... what's the word... oh yes, INSANE!

Granted I'm looking at this from a UK perspective which means we get bent over the desk and screwed on a regular basis anyway but as a price comparison here a new release on DVD tends to be around £10 - £12 in the high street on week of release. The same blu-ray or HD-DVD film goes for £20 - £30! And for what, a jump in picture quality and maybe an exclusive extra or two? Without the market pressure of a rival format I don't see that price dropping much for a while either.

Let's be honest here, the 'war' being over is a good thing for the consumer in that there's no need to choose a format and hope movies you want to see are released for that format but that's where the good news ends. Cost of entry just trippled from £100 to £300 (ED-30 HD-DVD to PS3), stand-alone players that are worth buying won't be here until late in the year at best, any future profile updates are still likely to screw you unless the standard is changed to insist on upgradable players and media costs are through the roof, up the chimney and reaching for the stars. The better outcome would have been for all studios to go multi-platform but oh well, such is life I suppose.

And as for assuming that Blu-Ray will be the standard HD media format for years to come, I wouldn't be so sure. That price point of £300 is important because it brings a player in at almost exactly the same cost as a HD satellite box and a years HD subscription. In a worst-case scenario it'll cost £20 to subscribe to the movie package which give you 2 HD channels currently and possibly three in the near future. No, it's not quite the same picture quality as Blu-Ray can offer but for most it'll be more than good enough. Yes, Blu-Ray will get cheaper as time goes on but the number of ways of getting HD content are increasing all the time. Apple TV is one example but it seems everyone and their dog are trying out video on-demand services right now. And remember that the VAST majority of users either a) don't have a 1080p set anyway or b) have a 1080p set but sit far enough away for the screen size that any extra detail is lost. To get the full benefit of 1080p from a normal viewing distance in the typical living room (say,what, 10 feet?) you'd need to be looking at a 70 inch screen at the least. To even start to notice the benefit you'd need a 50 inch screen.

One other thing, have a serious think about what got the majority of people to switch to DVD. Yes, picture and sound improvements were a big plus but what was the one thing all of your non-techie friends latched on to the first time they used it? In my case, and I suspect many others, it was the fact you didn't have to mess about with rewinding tapes and could jump instantly to a scene. A small thing but a major jump forward in useability. HD media doesn't really offer that (no, an in-movie menu bar doesn't count) but on-line distribution does. The great unwashed may well decide that having instant access to 720p versions of thousands of movies (preferably for a flat rate subscription fee but that's a different topic) is better than having to either buy or physically rent the same movie with slightly better picture and sound quality.

Sorry for the rant, guess I just had to get that out of my system.

[iSlave]

In response to the previous poster, I am also in the UK and yeah, we get completely screwed over on prices every single time. However, while you were right that in the high street blu-ray is £20-30 a shot, I have never once bought one from the high street and I never will. I've backed blu-ray since last March when I bought a PS3, and since then I've never paid more than £17.99 for a single blu-ray movie. Have a look at the prices online, particularly for region free titles. You might be pleasantly surprised.

[GreatDrok]

In response to the previous poster, I am also in the UK and yeah, we get completely screwed over on prices every single time. However, while you were right that in the high street blu-ray is £20-30 a shot, I have never once bought one from the high street and I never will. I've backed blu-ray since last March when I bought a PS3, and since then I've never paid more than £17.99 for a single blu-ray movie. Have a look at the prices online, particularly for region free titles. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Heh! The typical price of the HD DVDs I have been buying from Amazon are US$20 in other words £10. Less than the price of the DVD in most cases. Even new releases in the rather unfortunate combo DVD/HD DVD format cost about US$27 or £13.50. Best of all, I could buy brand new releases without worrying about the region. Sure, there are a number of region free BDs but all the new stuff is region locked so if you don't have a region A player you are stuck paying UK prices. £17.99 is US$35 at current exchange rates and that is a cheap BD.

Want to hear something even sicker? The most expensive BDs in NZ are NZ$50 which is £20. Most are NZ$42 or £17 and that is in the shops. Of course, I can buy HD DVDs in the shops here for NZ$32 which is £13 so it is still a little cheaper to get them from the US as long as I buy several to save on the postage. UK prices are a serious rip off for media. Players are less of an issue, in NZ the players are crazy expensive. We were still stuck paying NZ$1200 for the PS3 60GB version while you guys were getting the same machine for £350 (NZ$870) and we don't even get the 60GB version any more. The 40GB machine is NZ$799 or £322 or US$632. I believe that same machine can be had in the US for US$399. Think about that for a moment. I find it quite cheeky for people in the US to complain about the price of discs and players.

The only people really happy about BD winning are those who live in Region A. Still, they can stick their region coding, I'll just buy a US player and be done with it.

[iSlave]

Having to hunt around online for a reasonable price is pretty much the de facto standard for the UK shopper. I'm sure what I consider to be 'cheap' is still expensive by another countrys standards, but it's the best I can hope for being stuck on this miserable little island!!! :(

If anyone is recruiting for an IT Support Analyst in either Canada or NZ, then I'm available immediately if you can provide me with a box to live in. I come with a free funny accent too.

[Agathon]

Can I ask a question here that's been bugging me for some time? Why, in the name of $Deity, do people get so fanatical about a frickin' MEDIA FORMAT!?!

Okay, I can kinda get the whole Apple/Microsoft thing that some people indulge in (even if it does seem stupid and pointless, but I digress) but the topic of which shiny silver discs will be triumphant has generated more wasted pixels than Britney Spears latest trauma. And the really weird thing is, in my opinion of course, those people celebrating the death of HD-DVD don't actually have a finished product to buy yet.

Oh sure, you can get a PS3 which will be firmware upgradeable to profile 2 when it finally gets released but unless you've got an amp that takes HDMI input forget about getting true HD sound out of the thing. All of the standalone players not only cost a pretty big chunk of dosh but you're going to be stuck with a profile 1.1 or even 1.0 machine so you won't get the full benefit out of discs in less than a years time. And, of course, media prices are currently... what's the word... oh yes, INSANE!

Granted I'm looking at this from a UK perspective which means we get bent over the desk and screwed on a regular basis anyway but as a price comparison here a new release on DVD tends to be around £10 - £12 in the high street on week of release. The same blu-ray or HD-DVD film goes for £20 - £30! And for what, a jump in picture quality and maybe an exclusive extra or two? Without the market pressure of a rival format I don't see that price dropping much for a while either.

Let's be honest here, the 'war' being over is a good thing for the consumer in that there's no need to choose a format and hope movies you want to see are released for that format but that's where the good news ends. Cost of entry just trippled from £100 to £300 (ED-30 HD-DVD to PS3), stand-alone players that are worth buying won't be here until late in the year at best, any future profile updates are still likely to screw you unless the standard is changed to insist on upgradable players and media costs are through the roof, up the chimney and reaching for the stars. The better outcome would have been for all studios to go multi-platform but oh well, such is life I suppose.

And as for assuming that Blu-Ray will be the standard HD media format for years to come, I wouldn't be so sure. That price point of £300 is important because it brings a player in at almost exactly the same cost as a HD satellite box and a years HD subscription. In a worst-case scenario it'll cost £20 to subscribe to the movie package which give you 2 HD channels currently and possibly three in the near future. No, it's not quite the same picture quality as Blu-Ray can offer but for most it'll be more than good enough. Yes, Blu-Ray will get cheaper as time goes on but the number of ways of getting HD content are increasing all the time. Apple TV is one example but it seems everyone and their dog are trying out video on-demand services right now. And remember that the VAST majority of users either a) don't have a 1080p set anyway or b) have a 1080p set but sit far enough away for the screen size that any extra detail is lost. To get the full benefit of 1080p from a normal viewing distance in the typical living room (say,what, 10 feet?) you'd need to be looking at a 70 inch screen at the least. To even start to notice the benefit you'd need a 50 inch screen.

One other thing, have a serious think about what got the majority of people to switch to DVD. Yes, picture and sound improvements were a big plus but what was the one thing all of your non-techie friends latched on to the first time they used it? In my case, and I suspect many others, it was the fact you didn't have to mess about with rewinding tapes and could jump instantly to a scene. A small thing but a major jump forward in useability. HD media doesn't really offer that (no, an in-movie menu bar doesn't count) but on-line distribution does. The great unwashed may well decide that having instant access to 720p versions of thousands of movies (preferably for a flat rate subscription fee but that's a different topic) is better than having to either buy or physically rent the same movie with slightly better picture and sound quality.

Sorry for the rant, guess I just had to get that out of my system.

You don't understand. This is WAR!!!! ;)

[Shagrat]

This is good news... This further justifies my PS3 purchase...

Snap!

(NB NOT Snappier!)

[BongoBanger]

Next year it will be the turn of the Xbox 360.

Perhaps when the PS3's games catalogue doesn't suck quite as badly you may have an argument.

Of course, I expect the console companies will be looking at their next gen machines by then anyway and, once again, it'll be a free for all.

[TMay]

I hope I can get Battlestar Galactica Season one and Star Trek: TOS Season 1 for a song. Screw the "war". I'm not dropping my HD DVD player. It can sit along side a BR player whenever the damn format gets below the "magic" $200 price point. Right now the cheapest BR player is around $300 which is too much. I got my HD DVD player last fall for $160.
I'm more then willing to stock up on HD DVD disks while BR gets its crap sorted out....and when I say crap I mean the interactive features that most BR players can't support yet because they can't connect to the net. Way to back an unfinished spec guys.... :rolleyes:

Anyways. I'm glad this is over one way or another. Would have rather have had HD DVD win. I have some friends who live in Japan who could have gone on an Anime shopping spree for me. Since HD DVD is region free and BR is not....would have been nice. *shrugs*

I'm sure all of you HD-DVD fans will appreciate that HD-DVD will remain region free to the very end, being that the DVD Forum will now never get the chance to add Region Coding:

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=17197

Here's the specifics on Blu-Ray region coding:

link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

"Blu-ray discs may be encoded with a region code, intended to restrict the area of the world in which they can be played; similar in principle to the DVD region codes, although the used geographical regions differ. Blu-ray players sold in a certain region should only be able to play discs encoded for that region. The purpose of this system is to allow motion picture studios to control the various aspects of a release (including content, date, and, in particular, price) according to the region. Discs may also be produced without region coding, so they can be played on all devices."

As for the BD 2.0 functionality, I guess those 500,000 folks that purchased early standalone players are out of luck for interactivity, but at least they will be able to play new Blu-Ray content indefinitely.

Something that HD-DVD will quite soon lack.

[takao]

If you can't tell the difference in HD quality and you have all the HD stuff, watch an MLS soccer game on ESPN2HD this year and then watch another one two days later on Fox Soccer Channel in SD. Same with college basketball on your regional channel and then during March on CBS.

No frickin' comparison.

offtopic:
you gotta love it how in the US every channel is broadcasting in HDTV while in central europe sat1/pro7 just _shut down_ their HD TV broadcasts "at least until 2010" "because of the lack of viewers" .. which now means there is a _single_ free german HD-TV channel left ... the other 2-3 are pay per view

for which you need a 300-400 euro receiver to get that single free channel


ontopic: thank goodness a format finally one ... sadly not both failed because i would have really appreciated that to finally teach the industry a lesson ... no we only have to wait until drives actually get cheaper for watching the stuff on the computer (i'm not going to buy a HD TV just for movies)

[Bastich]

Now can we also get rid of all this competing computer OS nonsense? It's confusing for "the consumer". I prefer it when the richest consortiums make choices for me.

:cool:

[Shagrat]

hi-def matrix trilogy currently only available on hd-dvd... :cool:

Hmmn, Blu-Ray Matrix...ok, will be nice.

The 2nd and 3rd...Meh.

Like many another franchise, by the time it gets to the Threequel (i.e Flogging a Dead Horse time), it severely undermines what is often a good first movie...e.g. Pirates...Shreck...Matrix...
etc.

Still, at least we now have A HD format on disc, so that means no more shilly-shallying about.

As to whether Blu-Ray is the deseving victor, well, that's for us all to decide, I guess.

[Shagrat]

I disagree. First, read GreatDrok's post above about how region B movies and players are overpriced. With that in mind, consider that my HD DVD player and 18 discs still cost less than a BR player on its own. I don't think I made a bad decision at all.

Or, I bought a PS3 with a free Blu-ray player, or a Blu-Ray player with a free games console...

Anyway, if the dust settles soon, than I'm sure BR players will drop in price, as DVD players did.

but I have to admit, the Region encoding bit is the only part that I don't really like, although it seems as with DVD players, there will be region free(unlocked) players available.

PS Anyone know of a region unlock code/hack for a European PS3???

[dogtanian]

offtopic:
you gotta love it how in the US every channel is broadcasting in HDTV while in central europe sat1/pro7 just _shut down_ their HD TV broadcasts "at least until 2010" "because of the lack of viewers" .. which now means there is a _single_ free german HD-TV channel left ... the other 2-3 are pay per view

for which you need a 300-400 euro receiver to get that single free channel


ontopic: thank goodness a format finally one ... sadly not both failed because i would have really appreciated that to finally teach the industry a lesson ... no we only have to wait until drives actually get cheaper for watching the stuff on the computer (i'm not going to buy a HD TV just for movies)

In the UK we have:

Sky Movies HD
Sky Sports HD
Sky one HD
Sky Arts HD
Nat Geo HD
History Channel HD
Discovery HD
BBC HD
Channel 4 HD
Sky Box Office HD (Pay per view)
ITV HD is rumoured

Unfortunately, most of it's crap unless your into rugby and sports. I'm glad Bluray won seeing as I have a PS3 but it is good that people can actually start buying PS3's now since the war is over! (esp as it's the only profile 2.0 player out there...)

[satty]

... region coding...

Don't get me started :mad:
After moving from one region code to another, I can only say one thing: This must be one of the most consumer unfriendly technology ever. I've started to rip all my region 2 DVD to H.264, because it's the only way to ensure I can watch all the content I bought after my region encoded computer dies (I don't want to risk a DVD firmware upgrade). There's a good chance I will never buy a region 4 coded DVD.

Now, it appears that HD DVD "lost the war", but that doesn't necessarily mean that Blue Ray is winning the war. Look at the CD sales and music downloads... with increased network bandwidth HD movie content is going the same way.

I would think that Blue Ray or other disc formats are becoming redundant in the near/medium future.

[netdog]

Now, it appears that HD DVD "lost the war", but that doesn't necessarily mean that Blue Ray is winning the war. Look at the CD sales and music downloads... with increased network bandwidth HD movie content is going the same way.

I would think that Blue Ray or other disc formats are becoming redundant in the near/medium future.

Agree completely. The network is the winner. Don't go building that Blu-Ray library just yet. They'll wind up in a box in the attic next to your LaserDiscs all too soon.

[Evangelion]

HD-DVD was better for consumers. Less Sony

but more Microsoft

less DRM

Maybe so, but end-result for consumers is the same

no region codes

IIRC, all BD-releases have been region-free as well.

and cheaper prices.

Only because Toshiba tried to desperately sell as many players as possible with firesales. Those prices were unhealthy and not viable in the long run. If we exclude those sales, the prices were more or less the same.

[winterspan]

Long way off? I differ on that thought. It'd be here today, as we have the capacity to do so... Thing is, we just need an "ipod" to kick it off. Maybe Apple TV will be it - who knows. But once we have the device in the living room - it'll catch fire quickly, and "hard media" will smolder.

Trust me, I'd rather have hard media myself - but that won't stop it from going away.

Now I'm not talking about other countries, but there's just now way in hell that the US broadband infrastructure could handle widespread regular downloading of 20GB files. Telecoms oversell their bandwidth to such a huge degree, why do you think they make such a huge deal of like the top 1% of their customers using bittorrent and downloading loads of data. Some are even starting to disrupt all P2P and bittorent data or at least slowing them to a crawl.
I'd be willing to bet that with some cable and DSL ISPs in this country, that if you downloaded just three 20GB 1080P movie files that they'd send you a letter or something. Why do you think all the news is about ISPs starting to explore "tiered services"... The era of "unlimited" internet will be over and I'd wager bandwidth caps for the average monthly service will be around 50GB or less. As soon as a significant amount of users start using this level of data transfer, they'll start making big changes designed to choke the pipe.

The only thing that might change this will be wide spread roll out of fiber-to-the-home and so far only Verizon has even started offering service in very limited areas. We're about 5 years behind western Europe and about 10 years behind Asia. It's really quite pathetic. There is NO competition in this country for internet service because of the stupid de-regulation of cable and DSL service that the stupid ass republicans did. For people outside the USA it probably sounds foreign to hear that most of our population has a choice between ONE cable provider and ONE DSL provider. And that's if you are lucky enough to live close enough for DSL service which many are not. Many huge areas can't even get either and are relegated to satellite unless they are lucky enough to have a (WISP) terrestrial wireless ISP.

We are in dire need of real broadband competition and a national broadband plan. I hope the 700mhz auction can do something to help this.

[djellison]

Unfortunately, most of it's crap unless your into rugby and sports.....

or Movies, or Documentaries, or Drama (what else is there?). It's actually not a bad range we get offered here in the UK.

I'm glad that the format war is nearly over. At last, consumers will not be lost in a confusopoly. With one format dominant, the demand for and thus price of players will drop, the take up of HD TV's will increase.

As for downloads being the ultimate winner - forget it. A single good quality movie download would, on its own, kill most peoples bandwidth allowance or breach their fair usage policy.

A BR disk, with overnight delivery, offers better bandwidth than most ADSL connections in the UK. People want a 'thing' - something to put on a shelf, something they can share, can take to a friends house. Downloads for music are different, 79p here or there with a few meg download, who cares But a top quality HD movie is many gigs - and that's not going to be delivered via the net for some time here.

Doug

[God^Cent]

Now I'm not talking about other countries, but there's just now way in hell that the US broadband infrastructure could handle widespread regular downloading of 20GB files. Telecoms oversell their bandwidth to such a huge degree, why do you think they make such a huge deal of like the top 1% of their customers using bittorrent and downloading loads of data. Some are even starting to disrupt all P2P and bittorent data or at least slowing them to a crawl.
I'd be willing to bet that with some cable and DSL ISPs in this country, that if you downloaded just three 20GB 1080P movie files that they'd send you a letter or something. Why do you think all the news is about ISPs starting to explore "tiered services"... The era of "unlimited" internet will be over and I'd wager bandwidth caps for the average monthly service will be around 50GB or less. As soon as a significant amount of users start using this level of data transfer, they'll start making big changes designed to choke the pipe.


Not going to happen as long as Net Neutrality (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWt0XUocViE) exists! Don't know about it watch the video link.

[tvfilm]

Will all the record labels get together now and release one new HD audio format now? Will the RIAA be in charge of the releasing of such music?

probably will happen after seeing the studios collude.

This Blu-Ray alliance of all studios into one, is the most corrupt form of collusion since the 1948 Paramount Decree where studios were sued by the US government for manipulating the exhibition market.

This is the same thing but in the home video market now.

You wont see any signs of corruption now, but mark this post when HD-DVD is finally announced (god forbid) that they are done.

Watch Sony and the studios run the greed machine.

Forget trying to be an independent releasing films on Blu-Ray, they will charge an arm and leg just to license the logo now.

Toshiba had an unfair fight , if they were fighting an electronic maker NOT the actual studios, they would beat Blu-Ray hands down.

I know there are electronic makers in the Blu-Ray alliance like TDK, Panasonic, etc.
but
TDK/Panasonic is like the Island of Tongo being named as part of the US Coalition on the War in Iraq.

They are just there to sell the war. Its all US funded.

This is all about THE STUDIOS vs. TOSHIBA. trust me.

The studios are going to collude on prices, on Digital Rights Management and on the ENTIRE market . Regions on a $34.99 Blu Ray disc is the first major sign that they are in it for the money, first, second and third.

While of course, Toshiba/HD-DVD is also in it for the money, Region free coding, HDI interface, the amazing features of its discs, are all pro consumer and most importantly for the technology.

Blu-Ray glitches, loading erros, times to load, obsolete players after 1 year on the market, discs that have DRM up the wazoo, ARE clear sign they don't care about the technology of HD media.

COMPETITION IS GOOD, it thrives the technology forward (see airline industry and the pricing, big screen TV and the advancement of size and price, see hard drives, without competition, Maxtor would still be at 120GB for $300.)

Competition is also good for price points and offers. You wont see Blu-Ray, 2 for 1 deals when HD DVD leaves. it will be back to the days of CDs at $18.99 min.

Lack of educated consumers is the saddest part.

Average Joe didnt care to educate themselves that HD DVD is actually a better "CAR" than the glossy "Sony SUV" which costs more to own and run for doing the same thing.

They got sold on marketing and on the horrific Playstation 3 which still cannot produce 1 great title much less a graphic card that makes objects look real.

Toshiba had an unfair fight.

HD-DVD is the better format for the technology and for the consumer.

I will never support Blu-Ray.

I suggest you keep buying HD DVD media, and download HD movies not on HD DVD via XBOX live or similar.

Do not support Blu-Ray.

Blu-Ray payola to various retailers, companies and such to shut down or support Blu-Ray only is disgusting and goes against the american way.

If the studios were not in any camp, HD-DVD would of been the hands down winner but as always --- everyone has a price.

do you?

Do NOT sell out to Blu-Ray.

[lasuther]

As soon as Lord of the Rings is out for Blu Ray, I'll be buying a player. Or hopefully there will be a 30" iMac out by that time.

[PeteSky]

This is very good news. Allegances aside, physical media matters and the war meant confusion for consumers; and yes a MBP with HiDef media would be a very good thing. :)

[ReanimationLP]

I've pushed probably near 300-400GB of data back and forth using Verizon FIOS in the past 2 1/2 months or so.

They've never once called me or anything else about my bandwidth usage. :D

[sconnor99]

Best way to avoid the BluRay rip-off prices in the UK is to Join Lovefilm and rent them. Very cost effective way to watch the latest HD films.

[bartelby]

Who'd have thought Sony would actually win a format war?!

[cube]

It's not official

[Switched2aMac]

Maybe I can finally convince the wife to let me get a PS3...

[Macmel]

Will all the record labels get together now and release one new HD audio format now? Will the RIAA be in charge of the releasing of such music?

probably will happen after seeing the studios collude.

This Blu-Ray alliance of all studios into one, is the most corrupt form of collusion since the 1948 Paramount Decree where studios were sued by the US government for manipulating the exhibition market.

This is the same thing but in the home video market now.

You wont see any signs of corruption now, but mark this post when HD-DVD is finally announced (god forbid) that they are done.

Watch Sony and the studios run the greed machine.

Forget trying to be an independent releasing films on Blu-Ray, they will charge an arm and leg just to license the logo now.

Toshiba had an unfair fight , if they were fighting an electronic maker NOT the actual studios, they would beat Blu-Ray hands down.

I know there are electronic makers in the Blu-Ray alliance like TDK, Panasonic, etc.
but
TDK/Panasonic is like the Island of Tongo being named as part of the US Coalition on the War in Iraq.

They are just there to sell the war. Its all US funded.

This is all about THE STUDIOS vs. TOSHIBA. trust me.

The studios are going to collude on prices, on Digital Rights Management and on the ENTIRE market . Regions on a $34.99 Blu Ray disc is the first major sign that they are in it for the money, first, second and third.

While of course, Toshiba/HD-DVD is also in it for the money, Region free coding, HDI interface, the amazing features of its discs, are all pro consumer and most importantly for the technology.

Blu-Ray glitches, loading erros, times to load, obsolete players after 1 year on the market, discs that have DRM up the wazoo, ARE clear sign they don't care about the technology of HD media.

COMPETITION IS GOOD, it thrives the technology forward (see airline industry and the pricing, big screen TV and the advancement of size and price, see hard drives, without competition, Maxtor would still be at 120GB for $300.)

Competition is also good for price points and offers. You wont see Blu-Ray, 2 for 1 deals when HD DVD leaves. it will be back to the days of CDs at $18.99 min.

Lack of educated consumers is the saddest part.

Average Joe didnt care to educate themselves that HD DVD is actually a better "CAR" than the glossy "Sony SUV" which costs more to own and run for doing the same thing.

They got sold on marketing and on the horrific Playstation 3 which still cannot produce 1 great title much less a graphic card that makes objects look real.

Toshiba had an unfair fight.

HD-DVD is the better format for the technology and for the consumer.

I will never support Blu-Ray.

I suggest you keep buying HD DVD media, and download HD movies not on HD DVD via XBOX live or similar.

Do not support Blu-Ray.

Blu-Ray payola to various retailers, companies and such to shut down or support Blu-Ray only is disgusting and goes against the american way.

If the studios were not in any camp, HD-DVD would of been the hands down winner but as always --- everyone has a price.

do you?

Do NOT sell out to Blu-Ray.

All the reviews I have ever read (that´s been a few, believe me) on different sources stated that both systems were comparable from a technical point of view. None of the reviewers were able to say which one was better.
The prices are high for just one reason: only a few high-end brands were making HD players. No reason for others to make them until the war was over. Now you are going to see how really cheap players appear in the market (the same way you can get top-of-the-line regular DVD players very expensive, but also the cheap version of it. I paid less than $40 for mine, but I could have gone for a $200 one).
Originally Studios supported both formats: some of them were with BD, some with HDDVD and some with both. With time, they switched to one of them as they did in the past with VHS versus BetaMax. Would you think the same way if they had moved to HDDVD?.
The aggresive Toshiba prices were due, as someone already pointed out, to the fact that they knew they were losing. If your stuff does not sell, reduce the price. It was artificially low pricing, non sustainable. Again, I still remember CD-R and DVD-R being sold for $5 a piece. And again, small companies entered the market and lowered the prices due to competition. The exact same thing is going to happen now. I don´t know why you are so pissed.

[sconnor99]

Do not support Blu-Ray.

Blu-Ray payola to various retailers, companies and such to shut down or support Blu-Ray only is disgusting and goes against the american way.

If the studios were not in any camp, HD-DVD would of been the hands down winner but as always --- everyone has a price.

do you?

Do NOT sell out to Blu-Ray.

Too late - it's all but a done deal.

Bear this in mind though, In order for ANY HD disc format to takeoff, the players have to be cheap and the discs have to be a reasonable cost and there has to be lots of titles available. If Sony don't make this happen then BR will be a dead format anyway regardless of whether there is any competition or not.

[dogtanian]

Will all the record labels get together now and release one new HD audio format now? Will the RIAA be in charge of the releasing of such music?

probably will happen after seeing the studios collude.

This Blu-Ray alliance of all studios into one, is the most corrupt form of collusion since the 1948 Paramount Decree where studios were sued by the US government for manipulating the exhibition market.

This is the same thing but in the home video market now.

You wont see any signs of corruption now, but mark this post when HD-DVD is finally announced (god forbid) that they are done.

Watch Sony and the studios run the greed machine.

Forget trying to be an independent releasing films on Blu-Ray, they will charge an arm and leg just to license the logo now.

Toshiba had an unfair fight , if they were fighting an electronic maker NOT the actual studios, they would beat Blu-Ray hands down.

I know there are electronic makers in the Blu-Ray alliance like TDK, Panasonic, etc.
but
TDK/Panasonic is like the Island of Tongo being named as part of the US Coalition on the War in Iraq.

They are just there to sell the war. Its all US funded.

This is all about THE STUDIOS vs. TOSHIBA. trust me.

The studios are going to collude on prices, on Digital Rights Management and on the ENTIRE market . Regions on a $34.99 Blu Ray disc is the first major sign that they are in it for the money, first, second and third.

While of course, Toshiba/HD-DVD is also in it for the money, Region free coding, HDI interface, the amazing features of its discs, are all pro consumer and most importantly for the technology.

Blu-Ray glitches, loading erros, times to load, obsolete players after 1 year on the market, discs that have DRM up the wazoo, ARE clear sign they don't care about the technology of HD media.

COMPETITION IS GOOD, it thrives the technology forward (see airline industry and the pricing, big screen TV and the advancement of size and price, see hard drives, without competition, Maxtor would still be at 120GB for $300.)

Competition is also good for price points and offers. You wont see Blu-Ray, 2 for 1 deals when HD DVD leaves. it will be back to the days of CDs at $18.99 min.

Lack of educated consumers is the saddest part.

Average Joe didnt care to educate themselves that HD DVD is actually a better "CAR" than the glossy "Sony SUV" which costs more to own and run for doing the same thing.

They got sold on marketing and on the horrific Playstation 3 which still cannot produce 1 great title much less a graphic card that makes objects look real.

Toshiba had an unfair fight.

HD-DVD is the better format for the technology and for the consumer.

I will never support Blu-Ray.

I suggest you keep buying HD DVD media, and download HD movies not on HD DVD via XBOX live or similar.

Do not support Blu-Ray.

Blu-Ray payola to various retailers, companies and such to shut down or support Blu-Ray only is disgusting and goes against the american way.

If the studios were not in any camp, HD-DVD would of been the hands down winner but as always --- everyone has a price.

do you?

Do NOT sell out to Blu-Ray.

I pity you... :o

[Bakey]

They seem to be seriously pushing the idea that optical media is a thing of the past.

What?! Because Apple have produced ONE machine that lacks an optical drive!!

Riiight.... :rolleyes:

[raybo]

iTunes was NOT the reason SACD failed. MP3's and downloading were already big before iTunes. The iTunes Music Store was launched 4 years after the introduction of SACD, and then it was Mac only for a time.

Besides MP3's, SACD failed because most people didn't want to replace CD's and buy new CD players (the quality wasn't that much better to the average joe with an inexpensive system). On top of that, there was a competing format, DVD-Audio. Sound familiar? Kind of like how many people (even folks with HDTV's) don't really care to replace their DVD players, and were confused by two competing HD formats.

In any case, I'm happy that Blu-Ray won. Still a bit expensive for me, but now prices will go down quicker!

Another reason that SACD died is that the early discs were not hybrid, and nobody was going to replace their home, car, and portable equipment. If folks had been able to play the new discs on existing players, and the discs did not cost much more than CDs, I believe we would have seen a natural progression to SACD.

They were too in a hurry to push the players, and blew it.

Ray

[3247]

AppleTV '''vs''' BluRay.I thinks you've spelt "with" incorrectly. :eek:

A BluRay drive for the AppleTV USB port would be really nice.

[RichardI]

It's too bad really. Sony charges waaayyy too much for everything they manufacture. Always have. Look at the old Beta Max format as proof. Sony insisted on getting a premium for it over VHS, and it disappeared. The HD-DVD was every bit as expensive to manufacture as the Blu-Ray was, and yet the Blu-Ray players were MUCH more money to buy. Why??? Those of you who buy Blu-Ray, enjoy - Sony is.

Rich :cool:

[Breckenridge]

Now that the war is over, we need at least a blue-ray player option in a mac. Price of BD recorders is near $2000, maybe apple is waiting for the prices to drop down a little.

[jfanning]

Heh! The typical price of the HD DVDs I have been buying from Amazon are US$20 in other words £10. Less than the price of the DVD in most cases. Even new releases in the rather unfortunate combo DVD/HD DVD format cost about US$27 or £13.50. Best of all, I could buy brand new releases without worrying about the region. Sure, there are a number of region free BDs but all the new stuff is region locked so if you don't have a region A player you are stuck paying UK prices. £17.99 is US$35 at current exchange rates and that is a cheap BD.

Rubbish, not all the new stuff is region locked, you can, and I still purchased a lot of Blu-rays from the US. And all of the ones I have purchased have been $20 or less, well except Resident Evil that was $48 for three movies.

Want to hear something even sicker? The most expensive BDs in NZ are NZ$50 which is £20. Most are NZ$42 or £17 and that is in the shops. Of course, I can buy HD DVDs in the shops here for NZ$32 which is £13 so it is still a little cheaper to get them from the US as long as I buy several to save on the postage.

But the NZ prices include GST, I doubt you are paying GST on overseas purchases (since all imported purchases over NZ$200 you have to pay GST on). I can still remember paying NZ$70 for MiB when it was first released.

UK prices are a serious rip off for media. Players are less of an issue, in NZ the players are crazy expensive. We were still stuck paying NZ$1200 for the PS3 60GB version while you guys were getting the same machine for £350 (NZ$870) and we don't even get the 60GB version any more. The 40GB machine is NZ$799 or £322 or US$632. I believe that same machine can be had in the US for US$399. Think about that for a moment. I find it quite cheeky for people in the US to complain about the price of discs and players.

And prices in the UK are cheaper than other part of europe. But then again I could produce a huge list of products in NZ that are cheaper then in Uk/Europe, heck petrol is one...


The only people really happy about BD winning are those who live in Region A. Still, they can stick their region coding, I'll just buy a US player and be done with it.

Or maybe it is also the people that wanted to purchase movies from the BD supporting studios that are happy, region coding would have been added to HD DVD if Disney or Fox had sided with them.

[jfanning]

It's too bad really. Sony charges waaayyy too much for everything they manufacture. Always have. Look at the old Beta Max format as proof. Sony insisted on getting a premium for it over VHS, and it disappeared. The HD-DVD was every bit as expensive to manufacture as the Blu-Ray was, and yet the Blu-Ray players were MUCH more money to buy. Why??? Those of you who buy Blu-Ray, enjoy - Sony is.


What, and Apple doesn't charge too much for their stuff?

The reason HD DVD players were cheaper was Toshiba was losing more money they people were on the BD players

[mixel]

Aha! Great news, and as others have said already.. Good to see the better format win. :)

And yeah, I would like to be able to backup to BD, especially once the "100GB BD firmware-update" happens. its a v good option for all sorts of work. Can backup my entire documents folder (full of PSDs mostly) routinely. Very nice.

Can also burn all the EyeTV recordings to a disk with DivX/Xvid and play them on the PS3, saving huge amounts of Hard disk space and clutter.

As for the region code FUD, if you do research, a number of studios don't use regions on their BDs, so it's not as bad as all that. Once the drives are in more machines someone will likely come up with region hacks anyway. And the prices will drop in places like here in the UK once DVD is on the way out. What's the big rush?

[Stella]

Why are region codes so bad? Prices always drop so price is never really an issue. More capacity is everything for me at this point.

Another reason: If you were to move to a different part of the world, you'd have to repurchase all your movies in order to watch them ( unless you also bought your existing player with you - hoping its compatible with the local voltage. ).

[franz1999]

Until we have easy, insanely cheap flash drives for backup that are basically disposable (like DVDs), we need the discs. We can always stream video, back up to time capsule, but in the end we still need media for a true backup.

Personally I have had multiple bad experiences (and so my closest friends) with optical media backup in the past. After less than 12 months optical media were not readable or some of the data was somehow corrupted.
I would NEVER think of saving 40+ GB of data on a single blu-ray disc and consider that data "safely backed-up".
Just my 2 cents,

FG

[garty]

Because I believe the issue is more nuanced than you appear to think it is (was?).

BluRay was better for capacity.
HD-DVD was better for consumers. Less Sony, less DRM, no region codes, and cheaper prices.

And that (region codes) is why I'll stick with an up converting dvd player and download the rest of the HD content I want to watch. Blu-ray No-way.

[Emulsion]

I was hesitant to tell a family yesterday not to buy their HD-DVD player, but I don't think they would have listened to me...

[Sandfleaz]

Anybody want to buy a nice HD DVD and Betamax?
.

[Spanky Deluxe]

Personally I have had multiple bad experiences (and so my closest friends) with optical media backup in the past. After less than 12 months optical media were not readable or some of the data was somehow corrupted.
I would NEVER think of saving 40+ GB of data on a single blu-ray disc and consider that data "safely backed-up".
Just my 2 cents,

FG

My thoughts exactly. I recently had to junk whole stacks of optical disks that I'd backed up to a few years ago, they had faded 'rings' in them and several were flaking off the silvery bits. They were all kept in a cool, dark place. I'm not saying that hard drives live forever, however, if you buy yourself a Time Capsule ever two years then you should be ok.

[AidenShaw]

A dollar.

Hell, most of the time you can find 25 packs of decent media (Sony, TDK, Memorex) for 7-8 bucks a pack.

So around 35 cents a disc. You get 110GB of storage in that 25 pack spindle.

(DVDs format out to 4.38 GB)

4.38 GiB = 4.7 GB

(4.38 * 1024 * 1024 * 1024) = 4,702,989,189.12

Storage hardware is measured in true GB, but many OS displays wrongly show GiB labeled as GB.

http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

[johnnyjibbs]

It sounds like Toshiba is admitting defeat. Ending the HD format war is one thing, but it will still be a steep uphill battle for BlueRay due to the success of DVD and the little extra that HD discs have to offer. I don't expect this format [whoever the winner is - probably BlueRay] to be ever as successful as DVD, nor will I be buying a player for some years (unless it gets included with a Mac).

I applaud Apple for not jumping onto a bandwagon and having to potentially make an embarrasing u-turn. However, I rather suspect that, even with the end of the format war, Steve Jobs is rather lukewarm to "next-gen" disc solutions. Particularly as the Air is a message spelling out the end of the optical disc.
:cool:

[franz1999]

Why are region codes so bad? Prices always drop so price is never really an issue. More capacity is everything for me at this point.

I live in the US, but my family is European and my fiance's family is in Japan. Regions are really bad for us. We like to watch original japanese and italian DVDs and being in the US this is not possible.
Luckily there is such a thing as region-free DVD! ;)

[Digital Skunk]

It is likely that Apple's hesitation about releasing any Blu-ray products has been at least partially due to the ongoing format war.

I doubt that. HD-DVD wasn't as pervasive as BluRay to begin with, and BR just isn't that abundant either way. I doubt Apple's lack of BR hardware was due to the "war" it's more likely that Apple sees BR as many others, a new format that will be available, but not as abundant as DVD was. Now that people can download movies, rent movies, and order movies online, and always borrow them from their friends, I don't see BR being as big as DVD or VHS was in their time.

Apple will offer BR hardware, but only as BTO, not standard, and even that may be for some more years to come.

[MarsUltor]

No games use that much, no PS3 games even use that much space. A DVD or two is more than enough space and a teeny fraction of the price of a bluray disk and it will remain that way for a long time.

No game yet... I remember a day when a game could fit on a 5 1/2 inch floppy disc, what was that capacity? No more than 512 K? Am I showing my age by bringing this up? As games get more and more advanced they will require more and more space... years ago I got Wing Commander 3, that was on 6 different CD's... now that there is DVD's, it could be put to one disc, and as blu-ray becomes more accepted, people will adopt it and utilize the space to create bigger games... why would you ever doubt this fact? If you haven't noticed, everything costs more space than it did in previous years, for example M$ word on a mac 15 years ago may have been about 1.5 mb, now it is a little more than 60 mb (Word 2008)...

And as for the cost you mention, i remember when CD-R first came out, individual blank discs cost $10 or more, now we can buy a spindel of DVD's at a CVS or Walgreens for about $0.10 a disc (give or take)... the cost will drop rather quickly, and as people buy more and more into bluray, companies are going to be more willing to push their technology to utilize this hugh external capacity...

[darthraige]

Blu-ray is such a cooler name than HD-DVD. It's was too plain. Thank God it's over now.

[Curtis72]

Not so fast...

Ultra high end broadband is not available to the vast majority of consumers yet. Although it only took a few minutes to download "The Core" in HD from iTunes the other day, it is still not the same as watching a Blu-ray movie.

Where is also the extra features? I'm not saying that everybody is interested in extra features. But for me, I do want to watch them for certain movies.

And that is the thing... For some movies, I want to own. If I going to own it then I want it in the highest quality possible.

[Linkjeniero]

Maybe I can finally convince the wife to let me get a PS3...

OR, you could grow a pair and just go get one... :P

[snarton]

I'm glad that Blu-ray won but for a pretty obscure reason. Back in 1987 Toshiba Machine illegally sold technology to the USSR (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE5DA103DF935A25755C0A961948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all) that helped them build quieter nuclear submarines that could avoid detection by the U.S. military. This was important during the cold war. Maybe 21 years is a bit long to hold a grudge, but I'm glad I'll be able to avoid supporting Toshiba when I upgrade my DVD player.

[Evangelion]

This Blu-Ray alliance of all studios into one, is the most corrupt form of collusion since the 1948 Paramount Decree where studios were sued by the US government for manipulating the exhibition market.

You mean like they "colluded" to push DVD down our throats?

Toshiba had an unfair fight , if they were fighting an electronic maker NOT the actual studios, they would beat Blu-Ray hands down.

There were numerous studios backing HD-DVD.

This is all about THE STUDIOS vs. TOSHIBA. trust me.

Why is it then that there are STILL studios backing HD-DVD?

The studios are going to collude on prices, on Digital Rights Management and on the ENTIRE market

And that's different from regular DVD's how?

Regions on a $34.99 Blu Ray disc is the first major sign that they are in it for the money, first, second and third.

So companies do what they do for money? Well thank you Captain Obvious! And yes, Blu-Ray is expensive at the moment. So would HD-DVD if you disregard the price-dumbing. And guess what? DVD's were expensive as well in the beginning!

Blu-Ray glitches, loading erros, times to load, obsolete players after 1 year on the market, discs that have DRM up the wazoo, ARE clear sign they don't care about the technology of HD media.

IIRC, there hasn't been that much glitches anymore. n the beginning, yes, but not anymore. DRM... Blu-Ray has a bit more DRM than HD-DVD does, and they BOTH are a lot worse in this area than regular DVD's are! So I fail to see how you can call HD-DVD somekind of "champion of the consumer" or something!

COMPETITION IS GOOD, it thrives the technology forward (see airline industry and the pricing, big screen TV and the advancement of size and price, see hard drives, without competition, Maxtor would still be at 120GB for $300.)

This format-war hurt both parties AND the consumers. Elimination of that market-confusion HELPS the consumers! And we still have competition: we have several companies making players, several studios releasing content and several retailers selling both. Having the market split in to two incompatible halves is NOT a good thing! It forces the consumer to buy both technologies and it reduces the economies of scale.

Competition is also good for price points and offers. You wont see Blu-Ray, 2 for 1 deals when HD DVD leaves.

Yes you will. We have those with DVD's, and DVD has had no competition.

They got sold on marketing and on the horrific Playstation 3 which still cannot produce 1 great title much less a graphic card that makes objects look real.

PS3 is a fine system, there's nothing wrong with it.

I will never support Blu-Ray.

Your "never" will last two years, tops.

Blu-Ray payola to various retailers, companies and such to shut down or support Blu-Ray only is disgusting and goes against the american way.

There has been widespread rumours that backers of HD-DVD paid hundreds of millions to studios for their support for HD-DVD. What do you think of that? And what companies have been forced to "shut down" due to them not backing Blu-Ray?

If the studios were not in any camp, HD-DVD would of been the hands down winner but as always --- everyone has a price.

But studios NEED to be in some camp. They need to release their content on some format.

Do NOT sell out to Blu-Ray.

But selling out to HD-DVD would be A-OK, right?

[SactoGuy18]

I'm glad that the format wars are pretty much over. :) Now we can concentrate on drastically cutting the price of players so people who've bought widescreen TV's with HDMI inputs in the last three years will have the incentive to buy Blu-ray players.

(A little off-topic, but I think DVD Audio could make a comeback. There's good reason for this: it's far easier to build a DVD-A player, mostly because it's a close derivative of the DVD video format. In fact, if you have a DVD player or recorder drive in your computer all you need is the appropriate software and sound card and you can play back DVD-A discs, complete with full surround sound decoding!)

[TMay]

Don't get me started :mad:
After moving from one region code to another, I can only say one thing: This must be one of the most consumer unfriendly technology ever. I've started to rip all my region 2 DVD to H.264, because it's the only way to ensure I can watch all the content I bought after my region encoded computer dies (I don't want to risk a DVD firmware upgrade). There's a good chance I will never buy a region 4 coded DVD.

Now, it appears that HD DVD "lost the war", but that doesn't necessarily mean that Blue Ray is winning the war. Look at the CD sales and music downloads... with increased network bandwidth HD movie content is going the same way.

I would think that Blue Ray or other disc formats are becoming redundant in the near/medium future.

Please read the link in my previous post. The DVD Forum would approved the addition of region coding, but as I say, the HD-DVD format didn't live long enough to see it.

Either way, you are stuck with region coding. My sympathies.

[lucky3killer]

I would hopefully that Apple make external BD drive for iMac and MacBook Pro with Firewire.

Also add BD component support on Apple DVD or maybe rename into Apple HD Movie.

[guzhogi]

I like Blu-Ray's capacity, but like HD-DVD's consumer-friendliness (no drm, lower prices, no region codes, etc.).

The thing I'm waiting for is for Apple to ship Blu-Ray drives in its computers w/ the HDCP stuff integrated, too. Makes little point to have a HD movie if you can't watch it in all its HD glory. Maybe start using HDMI for its displays. Personally, I'd also like iSights to be built in to the cinema displays.

Apple also needs to start making movies on iTunes full HD 1080P as well as upgrade Apple TVs to be able to support 1080p. Not just 720p and up mixing to 1080p.

[gkarris]

Well, here it is.

This is not good though, this is what we get in return:

1. Higher disc prices - no other 1080 HD format to compete against.
2. The Constraint Token will be turned "ON". HD DVD committed to leaving it off. No without the competition, Blu-ray can turn it on, no HDMI? DVD quality for you... (and that's my case).
3. Content Exclusion. Disney made Blu-ray factories it is using sign an agreement that they will never produce adult content. (I don't like that, that could lead to more censorship - for me it could lead to censoring Christian content). I guess not a big deal, that content could still be on DVD or Digital Download.
4. Region Encoding. HD DVD is regionless. Now, Blu-ray discs can turn theirs on. Digital Downloads have DRM.
5. Crap MPEG-2 masters. HD DVD used the more advanced MPEG-4 or VC-1. Blu-ray has nothing to compete against...

Well, I do plan on going out and getting a Toshiba standalone closeout - I'll put it on top of my CED player... :D

[rockos]

another blow to microsoft...now just bring on a blu-ray drive from apple for the mac pro

rockos

[lucky3killer]

I like Blu-Ray's capacity, but like HD-DVD's consumer-friendliness (no drm, lower prices, no region codes, etc.).

The thing I'm waiting for is for Apple to ship Blu-Ray drives in its computers w/ the HDCP stuff integrated, too. Makes little point to have a HD movie if you can't watch it in all its HD glory. Maybe start using HDMI for its displays. Personally, I'd also like iSights to be built in to the cinema displays.

HD-DVD does support DRM too, known as ICT.

DVD don't have region code at earlier time, when came out in 1997 until they added region code in later after came out, it would happen to HD-DVD.

BD region code seems more lighter than DVD because we can watch Japanese movies on US based BD player due support A region.

[Kirkmedia]

Isn't funny how all the retailers and Studios finally united behind an "HD" format(Blu ray) since the introductions of HD quality movie rentals from Itunes? Apple really is shaking things up.

[DaBrain]

apple needs to incorporate some blu-ray drives in their macs. even the dell 1530 xps laptop has a slot-load blu-ray drive nowadays... :rolleyes:

Nope! Apple is going to offer the new Holographics COMBO drive!--))) :rolleyes:

[anubis]

But hooking up the mbp to a 42" 1080p tv screen will look amazing, and give me an excuse to save some money and not buy the blu-ray dvd player.:D

Considering the fact that the maximum visual acuity of a person with "perfect" 20/20 vision is one arc minute, and the angle subtended by a pixel on a 42" 1080p is significantly less than one arc minute (assuming you sit more than 3-4 feet away from the TV), I would say you got taken. Should have saved some $$$ and gone with 720p.

[Nugget]

I don't like that, that could lead to more censorship - for me it could lead to censoring Christian content

http://macnugget.org/albums/strange/oppressedcc2.gif

[Coprolite]

5 1/2 floppy??? What ever happened to my wonderful 8" floppies?

Progress..... how wonderful....




No game yet... I remember a day when a game could fit on a 5 1/2 inch floppy disc, what was that capacity? No more than 512 K? Am I showing my age by bringing this up? As games get more and more advanced they will require more and more space... years ago I got Wing Commander 3, that was on 6 different CD's... now that there is DVD's, it could be put to one disc, and as blu-ray becomes more accepted, people will adopt it and utilize the space to create bigger games... why would you ever doubt this fact? If you haven't noticed, everything costs more space than it did in previous years, for example M$ word on a mac 15 years ago may have been about 1.5 mb, now it is a little more than 60 mb (Word 2008)...

And as for the cost you mention, i remember when CD-R first came out, individual blank discs cost $10 or more, now we can buy a spindel of DVD's at a CVS or Walgreens for about $0.10 a disc (give or take)... the cost will drop rather quickly, and as people buy more and more into bluray, companies are going to be more willing to push their technology to utilize this hugh external capacity...

[tvfilm]

You mean like they "colluded" to push DVD down our throats?



There were numerous studios backing HD-DVD.



Why is it then that there are STILL studios backing HD-DVD?



And that's different from regular DVD's how?



So companies do what they do for money? Well thank you Captain Obvious! And yes, Blu-Ray is expensive at the moment. So would HD-DVD if you disregard the price-dumbing. And guess what? DVD's were expensive as well in the beginning!



IIRC, there hasn't been that much glitches anymore. n the beginning, yes, but not anymore. DRM... Blu-Ray has a bit more DRM than HD-DVD does, and they BOTH are a lot worse in this area than regular DVD's are! So I fail to see how you can call HD-DVD somekind of "champion of the consumer" or something!



This format-war hurt both parties AND the consumers. Elimination of that market-confusion HELPS the consumers! And we still have competition: we have several companies making players, several studios releasing content and several retailers selling both. Having the market split in to two incompatible halves is NOT a good thing! It forces the consumer to buy both technologies and it reduces the economies of scale.



Yes you will. We have those with DVD's, and DVD has had no competition.



PS3 is a fine system, there's nothing wrong with it.



Your "never" will last two years, tops.



There has been widespread rumours that backers of HD-DVD paid hundreds of millions to studios for their support for HD-DVD. What do you think of that? And what companies have been forced to "shut down" due to them not backing Blu-Ray?



But studios NEED to be in some camp. They need to release their content on some format.



But selling out to HD-DVD would be A-OK, right?



You really dont understand the 1948 Paramount Decree.
http://www.whitenberg.de/FoxTheatreAtlanta/ParamountDecree.html


This is bad for the consumer. If this was the airline business and they all got together to control the market, there would be congressional hearings.

Wait 6 months after Toshiba calls it quit and you will understand my post.

What Sony did by paying off to win blocked free trade and technology.

Toshiba is not a studio and cannot compete with the studios.

yes some studios were on HDDVD but in the end, they will stick together when they always co finance 30-100 million dollar movies, of course they will stick together.

Surely if all the record labels got together and made 1 CD format or Digital Music Program , they would get the RIAA to distribute it.

There is no reason why 2 formats cant exsist. Currently EA SPORTS per say, releases the SAME GAMES across 3 systems and there is no confusion there on the consumer part. They know what they want, XBOX, PS3 or Wii.

You dont see the market or the makers say, Well there is confusion in the market place, we must make 1 GAME SYSTEM for all.

This is a way to manipulate the home video market with pricing, DRM, technology, licensing fees of the Blu Ray logo and technology to companies (which is a lucrative business), something the studios hated when they lost millions on the SD DVD technology to the Toshiba group.

go ahead and support Blu-Ray.

Im sticking with HD-DVD and HD downloads of whatever is not on HD-DVD.

Sony should not be rewarded for their actions of payola to hinder free trade.

Consumers are sheep if you gloss the marketing enough.

BR is inferior to HD DVD.

i know you have over $500-$100 tied to your Playstation , so I can understand why you defend it so much when deep down inside I know you understand that Sony and the studios are not in it for the consumer.

Regions on $34.99 disc still is the first major sign. More to come as they will cripple the discs with 5-10 layers of DRM and they will keep the technology at 2.0 for as long as they want. There is no competition and you have to live with it because there is no other HD format .

They got you by the blu-balls.

[TMay]

Well, here it is.

This is not good though, this is what we get in return:

1. Higher disc prices - no other 1080 HD format to compete against.
2. The Constraint Token will be turned "ON". HD DVD committed to leaving it off. No without the competition, Blu-ray can turn it on, no HDMI? DVD quality for you... (and that's my case).
3. Content Exclusion. Disney made Blu-ray factories it is using sign an agreement that they will never produce adult content. (I don't like that, that could lead to more censorship - for me it could lead to censoring Christian content). I guess not a big deal, that content could still be on DVD or Digital Download.
4. Region Encoding. HD DVD is regionless. Now, Blu-ray discs can turn theirs on. Digital Downloads have DRM.
5. Crap MPEG-2 masters. HD DVD used the more advanced MPEG-4 or VC-1. Blu-ray has nothing to compete against...

Well, I do plan on going out and getting a Toshiba standalone closeout - I'll put it on top of my CED player... :D

Interestingly, I'm not really keen on rat poison being manufactured in the same factory as aspirin. I'll give Disney the benefit of the doubt on this. Seems like the concern is some parent opening up the box to find something quite a bit different than "Cars".

[carlgo]

You know, I might just skip this whole Blu-ray thing and get an Apple TV. Seems like the future to me.

I have always made fun of the Apple TV, but now I am a believer.

That being said, I wouldn't mind it at all if my next notebook came with a BR player as that would give me the most flexibility. Apple will probably be forced to offer BR players, even though I don't think they really want to.

[lucky3killer]

Well, here it is.

This is not good though, this is what we get in return:

1. Higher disc prices - no other 1080 HD format to compete against.
2. The Constraint Token will be turned "ON". HD DVD committed to leaving it off. No without the competition, Blu-ray can turn it on, no HDMI? DVD quality for you... (and that's my case).
3. Content Exclusion. Disney made Blu-ray factories it is using sign an agreement that they will never produce adult content. (I don't like that, that could lead to more censorship - for me it could lead to censoring Christian content). I guess not a big deal, that content could still be on DVD or Digital Download.
4. Region Encoding. HD DVD is regionless. Now, Blu-ray discs can turn theirs on. Digital Downloads have DRM.
5. Crap MPEG-2 masters. HD DVD used the more advanced MPEG-4 or VC-1. Blu-ray has nothing to compete against...

Well, I do plan on going out and getting a Toshiba standalone closeout - I'll put it on top of my CED player... :D

That's incorrect.

Both of BD and HD-DVD are support Image Constraint Token (ICT), it's up to film companies to use it or not, if HD-DVD contain ICT enabled then you would struck with SD when connect in analog cable, it does same applies to BD too but film companies don't add ICT until after 2012 or so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Constraint_Token

DVD don't have region code when released in 1997, DVD Forum would adopt the region code on HD-DVD in later time.

BD does support MPEG-4 and VC-1, most of BD movies are based on MPEG-4, not -2, according on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray

[mixel]

I dont understand people saying this will make disc prices high because there is no HD format competition.. DVDs had no competition, but have had dropping disc prices for their entire lifespan.

And crap MPEG-2 masters? VC-1 and MPEG4 work on BD.. it's up to the content providers to encode stuff properly - it's not the format's fault. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_high_definition_optical_disc_formats

How come this debate happens every time. HD-DVD would have ended up with region codes too.. This is best for the consumer. A single format is better than two. :D

lol lucky3killer got in there first, good call.

[garty]

Please read the link in my previous post. The DVD Forum would approved the addition of region coding, but as I say, the HD-DVD format didn't live long enough to see it.

Either way, you are stuck with region coding. My sympathies.

They can put all the region codes on the discs that they want so long as I can buy an unlocked player. Until there is a Blu-ray player that can be unlocked I'm not buying.

[Evangelion]

Well, here it is.

This is not good though, this is what we get in return:

1. Higher disc prices - no other 1080 HD format to compete against.

PRices of DVD's went through the floor, even though it had no competition either.

3. Content Exclusion. Disney made Blu-ray factories it is using sign an agreement that they will never produce adult content. (I don't like that, that could lead to more censorship - for me it could lead to censoring Christian content). I guess not a big deal, that content could still be on DVD or Digital Download.

There's already Blu-Ray porn being released. And most of that stuff is online anyway.

5. Crap MPEG-2 masters. HD DVD used the more advanced MPEG-4 or VC-1. Blu-ray has nothing to compete against...

You mean like DVD's were crap quality since DVD had no competition? And Blu-Ray can use the same encodes as HD-DVD did, and many of them do.

[mac-er]

Steve Ballmer is trying to figure out a way to spin this for MSFT, since they were one of the original backers of HD DVD.

Maybe he is going to launch a bid for Sony, shut down Blu-Ray and restart HD DVD. Yeah, that is what he is planning to do.

[twoodcc]

well hopefully this will be the end of the war. and we can now move forward

[Evangelion]

This is bad for the consumer.

If buying two incompatlble players so you could play back all the content out there is a benefit, then yes, consolidating on one format might be considered a "drawback"....

If this was the airline business and they all got together to control the market, there would be congressional hearings.

Why didn't we have this compaint with VHS or DVD's? Why would it be OK for companies to standardize on HD-DVD but not blu-ray?

Toshiba is not a studio and cannot compete with the studios.

Toshiba is not the only backer of HD-DVD.

yes some studios were on HDDVD but in the end, they will stick together when they always co finance 30-100 million dollar movies, of course they will stick together.

Like they did with VHS and DVD. And what horrible anti-consumer failures both of those were....

There is no reason why 2 formats cant exsist.

Yes they CAN co-exist. But fact is that forcing consumers to buy two different systems so they could play back content is not exactly ideal, now is it?

Currently EA SPORTS per say, releases the SAME GAMES across 3 systems and there is no confusion there on the consumer part.

And quite often the different version and and behave differently. And why should we be forced to buy both HD-DVD and blu-ray-players? Pray tell: what benefit would that give?

This is a way to manipulate the home video market with pricing, DRM, technology, licensing fees of the Blu Ray logo and technology to companies (which is a lucrative business), something the studios hated when they lost millions on the SD DVD technology to the Toshiba group.

Like they did with DVD, right?

go ahead and support Blu-Ray.

I will. And I will do that just to spite you ;).

Sony should not be rewarded for their actions of payola to hinder free trade.

You never commented on the reports that HD-DVD-camp paid hundreds of millions to studios for supporting HD-DVD... I guess there's double-standards afoot here! HD-DVD-payola is OK, blu-ray payola is not. And I haven't heard Blu-ray camp paying anyone to switch to Blu-ray (unlike what HD-DVD-camp did). Have you? Do you have an links?

BR is inferior to HD DVD.

Just because you keep on repeating that, does not make it a fact.

i know you have over $500-$100 tied to your Playstation

I don't own a playstation. I do have a Wii, does that count?

Regions on $34.99 disc still is the first major sign.

Keep dreaming.

There is no competition and you have to live with it because there is no other HD format .

Just like we had with DVD. And why would it be better to have only HD-DVD? I mean, every single complaint you made against blu-ray hegemony could be made against against HD-DVD-hegemony as well.

Seriously: your "arguments" make zero sense. They are filled with paranoia, hypocricy and double-standards.

[Takeo]

It's all moot now. Seems silly to argue about it.

Shame about SACD... I have a few SACD's on a moderate system... nothing audiophile... not even close... just a decent theater amp (maybe $400?) and some decent Infiniti towers ($1000?)... and some of those discs literally take your breath away. You close you eyes and it's almost spooky... you could swear that you're there... like you gonna get up and walk around and accidently bump into the musicians. Truly amazing. The iTunes store sells crap. I still buy CD's because I can hear the difference on my system. It's pretty noticeable. My iTunes library has about 3000 songs... and maybe 6 are from iTunes... maybe a dozen are legal and /or illegal downloads... the rest are all ripped CD's.

[Switched2aMac]

OR, you could grow a pair and just go get one... :P
Ha, good one. I just might do that.:)

[BenRoethig]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

the writing has been on the wall for HD-DVD for a while. It was clearly a matter of time before BluRay was the "official" format war victor. I'm still not sure apple will jump on board fully - perhaps just a BTO option. They seem to be seriously pushing the idea that optical media is a thing of the past.

Its a very risky strategy though. If AppleTV doesn't explode they way they want it to, the lack of Blu-Ray could unfortunately make Final Cut and the Mac platform a thing of the past for video professionals. I know of quite a few people in the wedding/event business owners who have had to either switch or add a PC to their ranks because of this. As BR-ROMs and Writers get cheaper this could funnel down to the consumer ranks as well. Apple should have been an early adopter here as they were with the DVD.

[cisco1138]

If you can't tell the difference in HD quality and you have all the HD stuff, watch an MLS soccer game on ESPN2HD this year and then watch another one two days later on Fox Soccer Channel in SD.
No frickin' comparison.

There is also no comparison between BD movies played back on my PS3, and ANY of the content available from cable or satellite. The effort being made by the content providers is laughable. The larger your display, the easier it is to see the difference.

I project my ATT&T U-Verse, PS3, and iMac onto a 110" screen. U-Verse has a lot of room for improvement.

[jaw04005]

Apple should have been an early adopter here as they were with the DVD.

That's very true. I've talked with many people who are purchasing licenses for Adobe's Encore for this very reason. The thing is, if you're going to replace DVD Studio Pro with Encore, it may lead to replacing the entire Final Cut Studio suite with Adobe CS3 Production Suite.

Adobe's pricing is very aggressive.

And Blu-Ray can use the same encodes as HD-DVD did, and many of them do.

That's a huge gain with the format war ending. Now, former "purple" movie studios can produce hi-def encodes that actually use Blu-ray's technology (50GB, max 48 Mbit/s) instead of producing cookie-cutter HD DVD and Blu-ray encodes.

[Xtremehkr]

About time, with hard drives reaching a TB in size, regular DVDs are far too undersized for storage these days. 7 years ago, I used to be able to back up an entire hard drive onto 6 DVDs, but it would take about 107 now. I have Time Machine working on an external drive now, but I like to keep a backup on media as well. There will be all sorts of advantages to having an optical drive with that much capacity. I wonder how long it will be before the CD disappears entirely. I can't imagine a DVD is that much more expensive than a CD is to make.

[PodPacker]

Apple hasn't gone for full support of Blu-Ray because it would cannibalize it's sales of AppleTV. Apple has invested too much into iTunes to have people buying discs to watch movies on the OS X platform.

[nick9191]

I think Apple didn't adopt Blu Ray because I can't see it gaining any ground, what with the whole rental system taking off on itunes. So what will blu-ray be used for except distributing software, and it will be a long time before a single application requires more than a DVD.

I'd just like to point out that HD DVD is far better for the consumers. If you want a load of DRM rubbish then go for Blu Ray. I'd also like to point out that the blu-ray specification is not finished, so If its changed in the future then theres a good chance none of the future disks will work on current players.

Thats the one single reason movie producers are choosing blu-ray, DRM.

One say people will realise what a joke DRM is... One day...

Oh and hi, I'm Nick :)

[TMay]

That's very true. I've talked with many people who are purchasing licenses for Adobe's Encore for this very reason. The thing is, if you're going to replace DVD Studio Pro with Encore, it may lead to replacing the entire Final Cut Studio suite with Adobe CS3 Production Suite.

Adobe's pricing is very aggressive.



That's a huge gain with the format war ending. Now, former "purple" movie studios can produce hi-def encodes that actually use Blu-ray's technology (50GB, max 48 Mbit/s) instead of producing cookie-cutter HD DVD and Blu-ray encodes.

I've been holding off purchasing a Mac Pro until both a Blu-Ray burner and the next rev of the Cinema displays appear. It would be reasonable to expect that Apple is working on BD authoring support in FCS to be released in the same time frame.

Personally, I think Apple wants to give HD downloads a bit of running room before release of a Blu-Ray player/burner.

[Shore Points]

Let the bitching from the people that bought HDDVD players begin.

It's your own fault for not waiting.

Yup...that would be me.

Not bitching though....I knew I was rolling the dice. Did get the player at a good price....and I only own HD-DVD 6 movies (10 if those free ones ever roll in).

Oh well. At least it will play regular DVDs. Maybe I'll get luck and there will be a class action lawsuit or something. :)

[TMay]

I think Apple didn't adopt Blu Ray because I can't see it gaining any ground, what with the whole rental system taking off on itunes. So what will blu-ray be used for except distributing software, and it will be a long time before a single application requires more than a DVD.

I'd just like to point out that HD DVD is far better for the consumers. If you want a load of DRM rubbish then go for Blu Ray. I'd also like to point out that the blu-ray specification is not finished, so If its changed in the future then theres a good chance none of the future disks will work on current players.

Thats the one single reason movie producers are choosing blu-ray, DRM.

One say people will realise what a joke DRM is... One day...

Oh and hi, I'm Nick :)

Blu-Ray 2.0 is the final spec, has been released, players have been announced (Panasonic DMP-BD50K as an example) and the PS3 needs only a firmware update. The only difference in the specs is addition of PIP and memory (1.1) and ethernet (2.0).

As others have pointed out, HD-DVD had DRM, just not the same level that Blu-Ray had, and region coding had been approved for HD-DVD by the DVD Forum, but hadn't been implemented.

[cube]

Apple does not include any hidef drives because they support BOTH Blu-Ray and HD DVD.

[supafly1703]

Long live blu-ray

[bdkennedy1]

They started popping up on Craigslist for cheap if anyone still wants one for some reason.

[mondesi43]

Today is a good day for laughing at all the Sony haters.

Today HD DVD has fallen. Next year it will be the turn of the Xbox 360.
:p:p:p:p:p:p You are funny and/or out yo mind. PS3 should have been number one in sales because 1) people aren't going to buy multiple 360s 2) the Wii allegedly can't keep up to demand. It's pathetic that they didn't become #1 within the first 6 months. Oh yeah, crappy games and people only buying as a cheap alternative to the BR only players. That's what sold them.

I currently have 20 some HD DVD titles and thoroughly welcome this. I will be able to buy another 30+ titles at dirt cheap prices. Yay me! I got 6 free titles and never paid more than $20 for the other ones. I really can't tell the difference between the formats when I'm sitting on the couch anyway.

The only thing that sucks now is less competition between the formats/developers = laziness and no price checks.

[BenRoethig]

Apple hasn't gone for full support of Blu-Ray because it would cannibalize it's sales of AppleTV. Apple has invested too much into iTunes to have people buying discs to watch movies on the OS X platform.

If they think that AppleTV is going to be the immediate successor the DVD, they better be ready for their products and all the gains that Mac has made to go bye bye. Neither the device nor the format are ready for prime-time yet. Video compression technology isn't near as good as it should be. It could be the future of HD rentals, but until there is a major breakthrough, DVD and Blu-ray will reign supreme and if Apple better jump on board if the don't want to be left out.

[zorinlynx]

Edit: Also don't think that just because optical disks have no moving parts that they don't degrade. Home-burnt optical disks have about a 5 year shelf life before they literally start to fall apart. :-S

I think this is an urban legend. I have a binder full of CD-Rs of many different brands I burned between 1995 and 2001 or so, and all of them still read okay. (Yes, ALL of them, I copied all of them to my hard drive about a year ago so I could have all my data online and not have to hunt for disks anymore. Funny how a *BINDER* full of discs is now nothing compared to the size of typical hard drives!)

[zorinlynx]

Apple hasn't gone for full support of Blu-Ray because it would cannibalize it's sales of AppleTV. Apple has invested too much into iTunes to have people buying discs to watch movies on the OS X platform.

I'm actually surprised that third parties have not stepped in and sold Blu-ray movie watching kits for Macs. I suspect it's because the only mac you can install an additional optical drive into is the Mac Pro, making the potential market smaller.

It's not hard to do; Bluray player plus movie playing software in a box. They did this back in the days before all systems came with DVD-ROM drives, afterall.

[TheNightPhoenix]

Region codes are bad because why the **** should we have to wait two to three months to pay twice the amount for a film that is in the same language, packaging etc. It doesn't cost that much to translate a film from "American" to English after all!

I have more HD DVDs in my collection because they're region free and buy many of them via Import. Bluray is *significantly* more expensive in terms of films and players, even when you get blurays as part of 3-for-2 deals here in the UK.

I don't think region codes have a whole lot to do with the release date and price of films. The majority of people buy their DVD's from the local shop or their favorite website which begin selling the DVD when the studios say so and at the price the studio say so. Even if DVD didn't have region codes I really doubt HMV would start mass importing from America. They would still sell when they are told to and for how much they are told to.

I also don't see region codes on Bluray are a major. Out of about 40 bluray I have 30 have come from the states that I bought on holiday, no region codes on them. The rest come from toys r us where they are only £9.99.:D

[futureswitcher]

ooh...i wonder if the next MB update will include blu-ray drives!
doubt it, but hey I can hope

[TheNightPhoenix]

I think this is an urban legend. I have a binder full of CD-Rs of many different brands I burned between 1995 and 2001 or so, and all of them still read okay. (Yes, ALL of them, I copied all of them to my hard drive about a year ago so I could have all my data online and not have to hunt for disks anymore. Funny how a *BINDER* full of discs is now nothing compared to the size of typical hard drives!)

NOT legend. I would have lost all my College and University work if it wasn't on the original zip discs!

I backed up onto CD, and kept them on a spindle in a drawer away from heat, cold etc some are intenso some are verbatim all have gone yellow-ish and most can't be read from.

I also had some burnt music CD's from the late 90's, a friend asked to borrow them. They had been on a self next to original bought CD's. They nearly all had pealed and the top silver coating had peeled right off.

If you want a true safe back up you need to make more then one back up and on different types of media. I know a very sensible head of IT who ended up kicking himself silly when he placed all his back up hard drives in the store room next to the lift. Turns out the motors generated a wonderfully powerful magnetic field, although his DVD's were fine.

[TMay]

:p:p:p:p:p:p You are funny and/or out yo mind. PS3 should have been number one in sales because 1) people aren't going to buy multiple 360s 2) the Wii allegedly can't keep up to demand. It's pathetic that they didn't become #1 within the first 6 months. Oh yeah, crappy games and people only buying as a cheap alternative to the BR only players. That's what sold them.

I currently have 20 some HD DVD titles and thoroughly welcome this. I will be able to buy another 30+ titles at dirt cheap prices. Yay me! I got 6 free titles and never paid more than $20 for the other ones. I really can't tell the difference between the formats when I'm sitting on the couch anyway.

The only thing that sucks now is less competition between the formats/developers = laziness and no price checks.

Uhm, the PS3 had a cell processor that had never been developed for. By definition, it would take longer for developers to learn to program the chip. This year, lots of titles announced, many of which will take advantage of the common hardware platform that is the PS3.

Advantage early to the Xbox 360, even with its high failure rate, which was a very conventional computer platform to develop for. Its probable that the PS3 will hit its stride this year, what with many announced titles coming out, cost reductions on the hardware and rumors of a $299 machine.

If that happens, Xbox sales rates will thereafter place Microsoft in at best a respectable third place.

[bluefiberoptics]

Can people tell the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray on a 15 inch Macbook Pro screen?

[V.K.]

I think this is an urban legend. I have a binder full of CD-Rs of many different brands I burned between 1995 and 2001 or so, and all of them still read okay. (Yes, ALL of them, I copied all of them to my hard drive about a year ago so I could have all my data online and not have to hunt for disks anymore. Funny how a *BINDER* full of discs is now nothing compared to the size of typical hard drives!)

It's not a legend. It might depend on the burner and the actual disks (I'm not sure what's the cause is) but it does happen. I have a bunch of DVD-R's burned on my laptop that became unreadable a couple of years after I burned them with VERY light usage. It also happened with a number of disks burned on my old PC.

[Mister9]

...and now Apple makes its offer to Sony for $50 billion and my entire house will be in sync.

[Mister9]

well lets not go too overboard here. I think that there is still a market for HD-DVD's/Players because they're a lot cheaper; i.e. consumer computers. Although BD's will have the Netflix and Blockbuster on lock down I think HD-DVD's might be able to make a market in the computer hardware business.

[Frisco]

well lets not go too overboard here. I think that there is still a market for HD-DVD's/Players because they're a lot cheaper; i.e. consumer computers. Although BD's will have the Netflix and Blockbuster on lock down I think HD-DVD's might be able to make a market in the computer hardware business.

No way. It's completely dead now.

[zedsdead]

No way. It's completely dead now.

It is. Toshiba is even backing out. As an HD DVD supporter for a while, I am not overjoyed, but not unhappy. I stopped buying about April 2007, and am sorry I even got into it that far. I really thought the end to the war would be dual player and the like, but it seems that since Warner's Total HD discs failed the company had no choice but to pick one and Blu-Ray won out.

The only good news is that Apple will finally add support, it's just a matter of when at this point. Maybe then Handbrake or another program will be able to support Blu-Ray to Apple TV conversions.

I still prefer downloads. The Apple TV HD is amazing considering the specs.

[FX120]

I never get the people who say HD-DVD = Microsoft.

Microsoft was never behind the format all that firmly. They provided a codec VC-1 which was one out of 3 available for disk mastering, but VC-1 is also used on some Blu-Ray disks too.

And they released a HD-DVD ad on for the 360, which was a wise thing for their consumers considering the ongoing format war was very uncertain at the time.

[zedsdead]

I never get the people who say HD-DVD = Microsoft.

Microsoft was never behind the format all that firmly. They provided a codec VC-1 which was one out of 3 available for disk mastering, but VC-1 is also used on some Blu-Ray disks too.

And they released a HD-DVD ad on for the 360, which was a wise thing for their consumers considering the ongoing format war was very uncertain at the time.

HD DVD was primarily Universal and Toshiba. Microsoft was a major player too, that is for sure, but not the only backer. If Microsoft was agnostic in the war they would have offered a Blu-Ray add on too.

The VC-1 codec is on both, but Universal and Paramount are the two primary users of it which are HD DVD. Most of the Blu-Ray crowd uses MPEG-4 now. I originally went HD DVD because Blu-Ray was stupidly using MPEG-2 at first. HD DVD offered MPEG-4 first.

[megfilmworks]

I think the format war was decided a little too late.
I doubt Bluray will get a foothold and if it does it will be left in the dust by downloadable content.
That being said I love Bluray and I still love HD-DVD.
But I think I like my HD downloads from iTunes the most!!

[Curtis72]

well lets not go too overboard here. I think that there is still a market for HD-DVD's/Players because they're a lot cheaper; i.e. consumer computers. Although BD's will have the Netflix and Blockbuster on lock down I think HD-DVD's might be able to make a market in the computer hardware business.

BD-R and BD-RE hold more data than their HD-DVD counterparts. BD-R and BD-RE also have higher write/read speeds than HD DVD-R and HD DVD-RW.

HD-DVD has a movie delivery format is near death. By 2009, it will be dead. I foresee the same fate for HD DVD-R/RW by 2010.

[zedsdead]

I think the format war was decided a little too late.
I doubt Bluray will get a foothold and if it does it will be left in the dust by downloadable content.
That being said I love Bluray and I still love HD-DVD.
But I think I like my HD downloads from iTunes the most!!

While I want that to happen, the fact is most owners of HDTV's do not, nor will not buy an Apple TV. Blu-Ray is not going to just fall off the face of the earth now that the the Apple TV has HD on it. Remember, there still is no way to purchase HD at all, not TV HD Shows, and none on iTunes. The Apple TV only has it (they're locked on the unit), and they are only rentals.

[FX120]

HD DVD was primarily Universal and Toshiba. Microsoft was a major player too, that is for sure, but not the only backer. If Microsoft was agnostic in the war they would have offered a Blu-Ray add on too.

The VC-1 codec is on both, but Universal and Paramount are the two primary users of it which are HD DVD. Most of the Blu-Ray crowd uses MPEG-4 now. I originally went HD DVD because Blu-Ray was stupidly using MPEG-2 at first. HD DVD offered MPEG-4 first.

Read more about it here:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/microsoft-hd-dvd.ars

Microsoft in the long run only "backed" HD-DVD because of it's usage policies and at the time it looked like a better format, while at the same time also being a member of the Blu-Ray forum and providing a codec for the BD standard. So it's not like they just played one side of the camp, and with HD-DVD's failing, it's not exactly a major blow to Microsoft in any way besides the silly HD-DVD add on (which I suspect was pushed by Toshiba). I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a Blu-Ray add on coming in the next few months.

------------

And digital downloads / OTA / Cable / Sattelite HD is still no where near good enough when compared to what BD offers. Compression artifacts and a loss of depth might not bother people with cheap 32" Olivia Best Buy specials, but they look like **** on my 52" XBR4...

[mondesi43]

Uhm, the PS3 had a cell processor that had never been developed for. By definition, it would take longer for developers to learn to program the chip. This year, lots of titles announced, many of which will take advantage of the common hardware platform that is the PS3.

Advantage early to the Xbox 360, even with its high failure rate, which was a very conventional computer platform to develop for. Its probable that the PS3 will hit its stride this year, what with many announced titles coming out, cost reductions on the hardware and rumors of a $299 machine.

If that happens, Xbox sales rates will thereafter place Microsoft in at best a respectable third place.

I agree, but MS has the online side of it light years ahead of Sony. That's what most people spend their time doing, online play. Sony really needs to step up online in order to kill MS in all facets. All of my friends who have the PS3 use it as a BR player, rarely a gaming system.

MS was a year ahead getting the 360 to market, they will have something new with better hardware than the PS3 within the next 2 years. MS will still have the leg up in the gaming market, and Sony will have the market in HD discs.

Sony bet on Betamax and lost, MS bet on HD-DVD and lost. Live and learn

[clayj]

Sony bet on Betamax and lost, MS bet on HD-DVD and lost. Live and learnMicrosoft bet virtually nothing on HD-DVD... it wasn't their format in the same way that Blu-ray is Sony's format. Microsoft mostly supported HD-DVD as a counterbalance to Sony. If there's a loser here (aside from us customers, of course), it's Toshiba and Universal.

I've got two of the HD-DVD addons for my Xbox 360s, and about 30 movies on HD-DVD. They'll still work, and I'll still be able to watch them. But my next HD purchase will have to be a Blu-ray player, and from here on out I'll only be buying Blu-ray movies. I'll slowly replace the HD-DVDs that I have with Blu-ray movies, until the day comes that I can sell my HD-DVDs and players on Craigslist or eBay.

As far as Apple goes, I think it's time for them to put out a Blu-ray option for Mac Pros which will allow us to burn 50 GB data discs and play movies back in full 1080p with HDCP-compliant monitors (like ACDs). I would rather buy an "official" solution from Apple than some third-party thing that's going to be kludgy in any way.

[djellison]

I doubt Bluray will get a foothold and if it does it will be left in the dust by downloadable content.

I think you're very wrong. iTunes doesn't offer anywhere near the quality of a BR movie at the moment. ADSL in this country ( UK ) certainly can't handle the downloading of regular multiple-gig movies by consumers. There is the simple fact that a disk is better quality, better reliability (put it in even if the network's down) It's a physical medium, you can take it round to a friends house, you don't have to download it again if your HDD crashes.

Hell - the act of posting a BR disk from a warehouse to a home in the UK offers a faster 'bandwidth' than trying to download it.

Doug

[Stope]

let me guess, you live in a country where all the big movies are produced and always at low prices. let me guess. you pay no more than usd 20$ or so for a dvd. let me guess, all the same will be true for blu ray when prices come down a bit. for the rest of the world (even canada) prices are dire. 30-50 usd for a dvd. so with bloody region coding, hardware b cannot play disk a and consumer is forced to pay double to watch the same film a half year after it comes to the usa.

region is rubbish

Let me guess, you live in a country whose currency is actually worth something

[theheadguy]

i for one welcome our new Blu Ray overlords
i knew that sounded familiar... http://www.digg.com/business_finance/Netflix_picks_Blu_ray_good_luck_renting_an_HD_DVD_soon?t=12779001#c12779001

HD-DVD wasn't well thought out to start with... a sizable investment and alliances were the only thing that kept it going this far...

[n1ght]

I think we'll be seeing a Blu-ray option on Mac Pros in the next few months, and eventually iMacs and MBPs.

I hope adding Blu-ray drive options to higher-end models will force them to add SuperDrives standard across the board. Seriously, that combo drive is ancient...

[mrpither]

well, as soon as apex makes a blu-ray player, i'll be all over it. and hopefully it will hackable like many of their past units. region, shmegion! ;)

[Bastich]

Will all the record labels get together now and release one new HD audio format now? Will the RIAA be in charge of the releasing of such music? <snip>

No, because they too have no clue on the technology side. It took Apple and iTunes to get them to finally accept music downloading as a plausible income source.

A technology company will need to come along first with a viable HD audio format/medium, then the RIAA will cripple it with DRM to protect their content monopoly and diminish your rights.

The interesting thing about the HD movie side is that Sony also IS a huge media company. I wonder if anyone considered that they've just been handed the keys to Hollywood?

:cool:

[chuckles:)]

wow.. A Sony format actually won a round... Who knew?
:o

[bmb012]

I don't really know why anyone would consider HD DVD to be an inferior format, both could hold more than an entire movie in 1080p, and HD DVD was cheaper. I've yet to really see blu-ray's scratch resistant surface in action, so who knows...

I really don't see either format being the 'main' format, because of DVD, not because of digital download.

I guess in the end I'm just glad that there's still a physical medium for HD movies, I love the quality, and I'll pay extra for the quality, but I'll at least admit that most of the world will not...

[phalewhale]

Good to know my PS3 will be playing high quality movies for a long while yet. My PS2 introduced me to DVD when I got that, and my PS3 has done the same for Blu-ray.

The quality is simply superb and the price is comparable to that of DVD when it was first released. I seem to remember paying £17.99 for new release films on DVD way back when...

[MacGeek7]

I can't wait for built-in Blu-Ray players in our  products

[Bastich]

Apple will probably be forced to offer BR players, even though I don't think they really want to.

Nobody is forcing them to do anything. Apple will "offer" BR drives when there is enough consumer demand, and someone makes one for a reasonable price.

:cool:

[TheNightPhoenix]

I've yet to really see blu-ray's scratch resistant surface in action, so who knows...
<snipped>



I have to say it really is scratch resistant. I have had 3 x box discs repaired because of scratches, they weren't even big scratches just general use/abuse hair line type stuff, but my over sensative xbox wouldn't play them.

Not a single scratch on any of my PS3 games or Bluray movies. If they get finger marks I just rub em on my jeans, and they all still look virgin.

[yg17]

Digital downloads aren't going to be replacing any disc format anytime soon.

1. Not everyone's broadband connection is fast enough. For me, I can drive to Blockbuster, rent the movie, watch it, drive back to return it and back home before a high def movie would even be close to downloading.

2. None of the online ones that I know of are 1080p. If I have a 1080p TV, I'm not wasting my time and money on anything less than 1080p when it comes to movies.

3. Ditto for DTS-HD and the other high def, 7.1 channel audio tracks. Online movies don't have those either.

4. If I want to buy movies and built up a collection, I'm certainly not doing it with downloadable video. The files are still way too large and will eat up space on my hard drive. And if my hard drive dies? There goes my entire collection that I paid good money for and can't get back.

5. Ease of use. None of the online stores are intuitive for computer illiterate people. Take my parents for example. They'd never figure out how to use iTunes to rent a movie. But they're capable of using a DVD player.

[TheNightPhoenix]

2. None of the online ones that I know of are 1080p. If I have a 1080p TV, I'm not wasting my time and money on anything less than 1080p when it comes to movies.

3. Ditto for DTS-HD and the other high def, 7.1 channel audio tracks. Online movies don't have those either.


You also forgot that the data rate for these 720p stereo downloads is far far less then their disc orientated brothers, I downloaded the matrix on the xbox and was bummed to get stereo sound and I could notice a serious drop in picture quality during the fast motion scenes.

They are in general High Def in their number of pixals and that it.

[Bastich]

This format-war hurt both parties AND the consumers. Elimination of that market-confusion HELPS the consumers! And we still have competition: we have several companies making players, several studios releasing content and several retailers selling both. Having the market split in to two incompatible halves is NOT a good thing! It forces the consumer to buy both technologies and it reduces the economies of scale.

Yes, just like they force us to buy a PS3, Xbox 360, and Wii to be able to play all games.

And let's not forget who started this format war, breaking away from the logical successor to DVD in order to create their own incompatible format.

:cool:

[combatcolin]

Today is a good day for laughing at all the Sony haters.

Today HD DVD has fallen. Next year it will be the turn of the Xbox 360.

Prat.

[Prof.]

I've been saying Blu-Ray will win the format war for a year now and most ppl didn't believe. Now I don't mind spending $700 on my PS3 when it first came out.:cool:

Now for the Mac vs. PC war:p

There is one more thing.

The guy that helped me at Best Buy today told me that XBox 360 sales are falling and PS3 sales are rising rapidly.

ALL HAIL THE PS3!!!

[dernhelm]

I've been saying Blu-Ray will win the format war for a year now and most ppl didn't believe. Now I don't mind spending $700 on my PS3 when it first came out.:cool:

Now for the Mac vs. PC war:p

There is one more thing.

The guy that helped me at Best Buy today told me that XBox 360 sales are falling and PS3 sales are rising rapidly.

ALL HAIL THE PS3!!!

He's wrong. XBox is falling, but they're about to be surpassed by Nintendo, not Sony. Sony is not even CLOSE!

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12758/Nintendo-CEO-Wii-to-Surpass-Xbox-360s-Installed-Base/

ALL HAIL THE Wii! :p

(Sorry, just had to do that)

[Mrbill317]

PS3 sales are still slow , no fricking good software other then Ratchet and Resistance.

I am very sad about hd-dvd dying. I have a brand new Toshiba A-3 which I paid 200 dollars for and ever since I got it 50% of my hd-dvd's freeze at about 15mins.
I probably should get warranty support soon I reckon.

I still havent received my free dvds from toshiba.

I do have a blu-ray player as well , an awesome panasonic unit

[TheNightPhoenix]

I've been saying Blu-Ray will win the format war for a year now and most ppl didn't believe. Now I don't mind spending $700 on my PS3 when it first came out.:cool:

Now for the Mac vs. PC war:p

There is one more thing.

The guy that helped me at Best Buy today told me that XBox 360 sales are falling and PS3 sales are rising rapidly.

ALL HAIL THE PS3!!!

That only because everyone already has an XBox :p

[mac-er]

Apple hasn't gone for full support of Blu-Ray because it would cannibalize it's sales of AppleTV. Apple has invested too much into iTunes to have people buying discs to watch movies on the OS X platform.

Apple announced that they would "support" both formats years before :apple:TV.

I suspect that Apple was trying to play both sides of the format so they didn't end up like MSFT and put time/money/support into a losing format. Jobs would make a masterful politician.

[BryanLyle]

HD DVD was doomed the day I bought my A2 player. I seem to have that effect on new technology. I would like to personally apologize to all the rest of the HD DVD folks out there.

I guess PS3 here I come.

[cohibadad]

I am glad to see Blu Ray as the sole HD disk format, not as much because I have anything against HD DVD, but because the longer this went on the more people who would invest in an orphaned format. But HD disks have a ways to go before they overcome DVD and they have new competition in downloadable content.

1. Home Theaters. For the vast majority of consumers, HD and DVD are indistinguishable on their current systems.
2. Cost. DVD players are dirt cheap and DVDs cost much less than HD disks.
3. Ripping. With ever increasing numbers of portable players and devices like :apple:TV, PS3 and Xbox 360, the ability to rip DVDs and encode for these devices has become increasingly attractive. Investing in HD disks only to be limited to only playing it back on one type of device is a problem.
4. Downloadable rentals. The ease, convenience and immediate availability of high quality downloadable rentals gives a viable choice for consumers. Most movies are viewed once as opposed to music so rentals that you don't even have to leave your house to get are very attractive. Mindsets will change from the idea that you need to have physical media to view a movie. This is a paradigm shift in video industry like that which occurred in the music industry a few years ago.

[JackAxe]

Apple is part of the Blu-ray Disc Association board, so bringing B-r to their products has never been a doubt.

I'm just grateful that MS has one less avenue into our living rooms.

<]=)

[ezekielrage_99]

The Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD war is over?????

That really was fast, considering there's only 3 studios left I would have to say by the end of the year if HD-DVD is still around I'll be surprised.

Well I guess that means I can now go looking for a Blu-Ray player..... :rolleyes:

[lucky3killer]

It is. Toshiba is even backing out. As an HD DVD supporter for a while, I am not overjoyed, but not unhappy. I stopped buying about April 2007, and am sorry I even got into it that far. I really thought the end to the war would be dual player and the like, but it seems that since Warner's Total HD discs failed the company had no choice but to pick one and Blu-Ray won out.

The only good news is that Apple will finally add support, it's just a matter of when at this point. Maybe then Handbrake or another program will be able to support Blu-Ray to Apple TV conversions.

I still prefer downloads. The Apple TV HD is amazing considering the specs.

Well, it would good if you have faster high speed broadband, at above 6 mbps but my DSL in our area is max at 3 mbps and quietly slower when download HD movies, that's no good for me.

[lucky3killer]

The Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD war is over?????

That really was fast, considering there's only 3 studios left I would have to say by the end of the year if HD-DVD is still around I'll be surprised.

Well I guess that means I can now go looking for a Blu-Ray player..... :rolleyes:

UMD is still around here but very few movies are in pending to be released.

[D-Love]

OR, you could grow a pair and just go get one... :P

LOL I was thinking the same thing but didnt want to say it. LOL

[Bubba Satori]

PS3 sales are still slow , no fricking good software other then Ratchet and Resistance.

I am very sad about hd-dvd dying. I have a brand new Toshiba A-3 which I paid 200 dollars for and ever since I got it 50% of my hd-dvd's freeze at about 15mins.
I probably should get warranty support soon I reckon.

I still havent received my free dvds from toshiba.

I do have a blu-ray player as well , an awesome panasonic unit

They're picking up quickly.

" The monthly NPD Group console sales numbers usually tell the same old story. Nintendo does awesome, there is a sharp drop in sales of the Xbox 360, and the PS3 is always at the bottom of the list. Well, the numbers for January are in, and Sony has pulled a shocker: the PS3 outsold the Xbox 360, Nintendo DS, and even the PlayStation Portable. "


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080215-aperfect-ps3-storm-blu-ray-hotness-and-xbox-supply-issues.html

[Bastich]

Apple announced that they would "support" both formats years before :apple:TV.

I suspect that Apple was trying to play both sides of the format so they didn't end up like MSFT and put time/money/support into a losing format. Jobs would make a masterful politician.

What everyone seems to forget is that Apple doesn't manufacture HD players or sell movies. They do make computers that are used to create movie content, however, regardless of final output format. They don't have to pick one "side" or another. In fact, they can't.

:cool:

[fluidedge]

you know what, i'm going to say what everyone else is thinking - yet i've never seen it mentioned before:

Blu-Ray has won (is winning?) the battle because it has a snappier name than HD-DVD

anyone with me on that one? HD-DVD is a really boring name, 'Blu-Ray' on the other hand is exciting, it's futuristic, as a consumer i get excited by exciting sounding products.

If you had no knowledge of any of the technical specs or the pros and cons of each (of which both have; blu-ray has some serious cons by the way) but you were in a shop and you had to decide between "Blu-Ray" or "HD-DVD" - which would you go for?

2 syllables vs 5 syllables?

[Lucy Brown]

I never understood this movie buying buisness. Why the hell would you spend your hard earned money on a movie that you will eventullay get bored of and sell or trade for pennies on the dollar. Biggest wast of money if you ask me. Just join Netflix. You can have them deliver the movie to your door when you feel like watching it. With the cable companies offering on demand viewing and streaming movies from the internet gaining popularity why the hell would you buy a movie. I just dont get why you would waste your money. Now I can understand buying some dvds for you kids to watch. I'm sure owning a copy of Finding Nemo is invaluable to a parent but other than that it makes no sense. Collect something that will go up in value if you must.

[ebouwman]

let me guess, you live in a country where all the big movies are produced and always at low prices. let me guess. you pay no more than usd 20$ or so for a dvd. let me guess, all the same will be true for blu ray when prices come down a bit. for the rest of the world (even canada) prices are dire. 30-50 usd for a dvd. so with bloody region coding, hardware b cannot play disk a and consumer is forced to pay double to watch the same film a half year after it comes to the usa.

region is rubbish

Well here in canada it isn't so bad, we're still part of dvd region 1. Also dvd prices are on par here i would say.

[kabunaru]

Blu-ray is the winner. It's over for HD DVD. :p :D

[ebouwman]

you know what, i'm going to say what everyone else is thinking - yet i've never seen it mentioned before:

Blu-Ray has won (is winning?) the battle because it has a snappier name than HD-DVD

anyone with me on that one? HD-DVD is a really boring name, 'Blu-Ray' on the other hand is exciting, it's futuristic, as a consumer i get excited by exciting sounding products.

If you had no knowledge of any of the technical specs or the pros and cons of each (of which both have; blu-ray has some serious cons by the way) but you were in a shop and you had to decide between "Blu-Ray" or "HD-DVD" - which would you go for?

2 syllables vs 5 syllables?

I do have to seriously agree. Just like how when the XBox 360 was released they added the 360, instead of just xbox 2, so that they could compete with the PS3.

Names have a huge impact on the success of a product.

But what serious con's does blu-ray have?

[Frisco]

you know what, i'm going to say what everyone else is thinking - yet i've never seen it mentioned before:

Blu-Ray has won (is winning?) the battle because it has a snappier name than HD-DVD

anyone with me on that one? HD-DVD is a really boring name, 'Blu-Ray' on the other hand is exciting, it's futuristic, as a consumer i get excited by exciting sounding products.

I've heard the opposite argument that HD DVD is easier to remember and self-explanatory. Although I prefer the name Blu-Ray myself.

[chr1s60]

I never understood this movie buying buisness. Why the hell would you spend your hard earned money on a movie that you will eventullay get bored of and sell or trade for pennies on the dollar. Biggest wast of money if you ask me. Just join Netflix. You can have them deliver the movie to your door when you feel like watching it. With the cable companies offering on demand viewing and streaming movies from the internet gaining popularity why the hell would you buy a movie. I just dont get why you would waste your money. Now I can understand buying some dvds for you kids to watch. I'm sure owning a copy of Finding Nemo is invaluable to a parent but other than that it makes no sense. Collect something that will go up in value if you must.

You are applying how you feel about movie buying to how everyone feels about it. I personally own a lot of movies, most of which I could watch many, many times throughout my life and not get sick of. The whole Netflix thing doesn't work that way either. If I want to watch a move at 10:00 at night, I can't say Netflix and have the movie magically appear so I can watch it right then, owning a movie I can watch whenever I want without knowing a day in advance. I also don't like the idea of constantly paying money to watch something. Renting a movie in any form is ok if you only want to watch something once or twice, but what about movies you want to watch a lot? In those situations it is much more reasonable to buy a movie for $5-20. There are a lot more variables to movie purchasing than what you say.

[X38]

While it's nice to see Microsoft's wmv plans take a hit with the end of HD-DVD, I don't understand all the clamor for Blu-Ray support. As a movie distribution format, it is probably only a matter of a year or two before on-line distribution reaches the same percentage as on-line music distribution. As a general removable storage format, it will very soon be hopelessly obsolete. Holographic storage is already here in the professional markets and should be moving to the consumer market within a year or two (http://www.inphase-technologies.com/). At that point Blu-Ray will be about as relevant as floppy disks. Unless holographic disks fail some how to make the transition to the consumer market, as a consumer I just don't see what the point is in investing anything in Blu-Ray.

[winterspan]

I was under the impression that BluRay will not display a full 1920 x 1080p without using HDMI. Something to do with HDCP.

HDCP is compatible with DVI. Already have it in my two year old Dell laptop and gateway monitor.

[SiliconAddict]

Now can we also get rid of all this competing computer OS nonsense? It's confusing for "the consumer". I prefer it when the richest consortiums make choices for me.

:cool:

I know you are joking but on a serious note....
Having Apple become the only option would doom the computer industry. they already make a buggy OS out of the box. What the heck do you think would happen to OS X if they were the only game in town. Hell Steve Jobs and Apple is easily the most arrogant company in the computer industry. :eek: I shutter at the though of them being top of the pile.

HDCP is compatible with DVI. Already have it in my two year old Dell laptop and gateway monitor.

Key word....compatible. There is a stream going from the device to your TV. If that protected path isn't protected along the entire route (Layman's terms), which is what happens if you are using a BR player with DVI instead of HDCP, the player has the option of saying "Hey this isn't a protected stream. I'm downgrading you to SD resolution!". The thing is this is disk dependent. So down the road if WB wants to get pissy they can enable this option. Right now as far as I know no one has turned this option on because so few players are fully compatible with HDCP 1.2 and that they don't want to alienate people who are starting to get into HD content. They will do this later on when they have everyone hooked. I look forward to the lawsuits.

[MacAddict1978]

seriously, when DVD came out, the first rounds of players were obsolete not even 2 years later when "Dual Layer" discs came out. Everyone paid hundreds of dollars for players that couldn't play newer discs. (They'd freeze, skip, audio would fall out of sync) and had to buy all new players. Firmware updates! ha! BR is clunky on the back end, and I am betting something similiar will happen to make the experience better as it happened with DVD. Though I think this time, discs will play in the future ok, but I'm betting early adopters will find later hardware offerings cheaper and more feature rich than theirs. (Just size of the player alone shrinking. Sorry, but those players are bulbous.)

And DVD was $30 a disc when it came out. It took years for production costs of the discs to drop. HD-DVD required no changes to manufacturing faciliites, where as BR needs all new everything to be produced, which will keep the cost up much longer than HD-DVD would have.

Winner or not, except for the foolishly die harded (and no offense meant, but early adoption of this kind of thing is foolhardy. In a year or 2 the players and discs will DROP BIG in price) no one will buy into this until its priced like DVD is now. 90% of America finds DVD fine for their needs and will upgrade in time when their current players wear out and a Blue Ray player is $100 with $20 new releases and bargain bins.

Come on. People love diving in the 2 for and 3 for bins at sprawl-mart.

HD-DVD would have risen to a consumer friendly price point extremely fast. The BR manufacturing process is uber expensive. As a result of this, it won't be for several years unless studios and hardware makers eat cost somehwere to jump start the format, and historically (Cassette, Laser Disc, CD, VHS, DVD) they have never done this. Ever.

For blu ray fanboys, gratz. For the rest of the world, come over to watch from BRD in a few years.

For the storage happy, (and storage was BR's only really achievement over HD-DVD), no one will ever use it. Other media is already larger in capacity and more convenient. I can imagine sitting for hours while it writes to a disk, as I'm sure the write times will be s-l-o-w on the first rounds of consumer level burners. Again, more technology that will be outdated quickly and need to be swapped out. And yet another more cost focused bonus to HD-DVD as the burning technology would have probably fell to a fair price point faster.

I really think if not for the PS3, this could have gone on longer, so I'm glad that everyone can get on with it. But I just think this was not a real win for consumers on a more broad level.

[winterspan]

Holographic storage is already here in the professional markets and should be moving to the consumer market within a year or two (http://www.inphase-technologies.com/). At


HAHAHAH are you kidding me? Talk about a pipe dream. Now don't get me wrong, this holographic technology was developed from Bell labs which has produced a good deal of advanced computer technology. It looks to be a proven, viable technology and the products appear to be in production or soon to be in production.

BUT, and this is a BIG BUT (:)), do you have any idea how long it takes to migrate this technology into a low cost system capable of DVD-level mass production, and more importantly, reduce the costs of the components and manufacture so as to sell $400 players and $2 dollar discs? The first product from inPhase which I'm not sure you can even buy right now, is reportedly going to cost USD $15,000 just for the reader and a single disc around US$120–180. And this is not to mention the huge costs and time involved in setting up all the production lines and getting the movie studios and computer software guys trained in the development of these discs.
Now I understand technology reduces in cost, but for this to be at Blu-ray competitor status in 1-2 years?? Are you kidding?

Meanwhile, blue laser optical discs (specifically Blu-ray) that hold 200GB are already in working prototype stage and the factories and production lines for producing them are already built and functioning. Players are already easily in the consumer budget, and discs are already being produced. and given the life time of DVD and standard definition TV, I can only IMAGINE the time it will take for people to upgrade to even something like 4K TV (2260P) which is the new digital cinema format. Even then H264 encoding on a 100GB->200GB disc will hold all the video and audio you need. What on earth in the consumer video market would you need a 3.5TB holographic drive for in the next 5-8 years? At least in America, people do not upgrade THAT FAST. Japan, I'm not sure. :):)

Bottom line, no way in HELL.

[combatcolin]

seriously, when DVD came out, the first rounds of players were obsolete not even 2 years later when "Dual Layer" discs came out. Everyone paid hundreds of dollars for players that couldn't play newer discs.

You are mistaken.

the 1st gen DVD players could all playback dual layer films.

However, early DVD players did pause briefly when this happened, leading to many people thinking there DVD player was broken.

This le to the disclaimer on the back of all DVD box's pointing out layer changing.

[manhattanboy]

blue-ray vs HDDVD doesn't matter anymore and that is probably the reason apple has withheld it
http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10610923

[aristotle]

blue-ray vs HDDVD doesn't matter anymore and that is probably the reason apple has withheld it
http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10610923
Who needs physical discs?
1. People without broadband.
2. People who buy/collect movies.
3. People with or without broadband who do not want to "wire" their living rooms with CAT5e.
4. People with small children.
5. People without any internet access or computers.
6. People who want 1080p without compression artifacts.
7. People with broadband which impose bandwidth caps.

[manhattanboy]

Who needs physical discs?
1. People without broadband.
2. People who buy/collect movies.
3. People with or without broadband who do not want to "wire" their living rooms with CAT5e.
4. People with small children.
5. People without any internet access or computers.
6. People who want 1080p without compression artifacts.
7. People with broadband which impose bandwidth caps.

most of the above people think Blue-ray is a combo of Jeff Foxworthy's Blue collar tour combined with a Billy Ray concert.
Can I get a heee-yaaaa
:p

[chubad]

Disc's are not going away for many, many years. Until you can download video that is not compressed as He** I'll take a Blu-Ray disc.
Wait until movie downloading becomes more prevalent and watch the ISP's start to charge for bandwidth. You can see that coming already. Hopeful some competition will prevent that, but I would not count on it.

[aristotle]

most of the above people think Blue-ray is a combo of Jeff Foxworthy's Blue collar tour combined with a Billy Ray concert.
Can I get a heee-yaaaa
:p
Uh.... I don't know where you live but Wal-mart is selling 40"+ 1080p LCD TVs for under 800 bucks.

More people know what Blu-ray is compared with HD DVD.

[matticus008]

Uh.... I don't know where you live but Wal-mart is selling 40"+ 1080p LCD TVs for under 800 bucks.
No, they are not. Even their cheapy 40" Polaroids are 720p and well over $800.

[Frisco]

Who needs physical discs?
1. People without broadband.
2. People who buy/collect movies.
3. People with or without broadband who do not want to "wire" their living rooms with CAT5e.
4. People with small children.
5. People without any internet access or computers.
6. People who want 1080p without compression artifacts.
7. People with broadband which impose bandwidth caps.

Blu-Ray is the new format eventually replacing DVD. Apple TV and all the other digital download services will be lucky if they get 5%.

No one wants to download movies, except for us geeks.

[lita313]

i for one welcome our new Blu Ray overlords

:p Oh my gosh. Your post reminds me of when Kent Brockman saw the pictures of the ants and thought the world was being overtaken by them. *laughs* Man, I miss the old Simpson episodes.

[akakillroy]

Well I had a whole lot to say, but my session timed out, but wanted to at least convey the highlights.

I think any technology war like this is bad for namely the consumer, second if Sony doesn't screw things up they can be successful at this, third I can feel for those adopting HD DVD, and those who purchased early Blue-Ray players and can't play the newer disks. Last I am thankful for the forums here, I don't post much but I do a lot of reading, and I have to say the Apple community as a whole are a great bunch of People indeed.

[aristotle]

No, they are not. Even their cheapy 40" Polaroids are 720p and well over $800.
They are in Canada's Wal-marts. No Polaroid brand though.

[AidenShaw]

You are mistaken.

the 1st gen DVD players could all playback dual layer films.

However, early DVD players did pause briefly when this happened, leading to many people thinking there DVD player was broken.



Also, the early DVDs were mastered with both layers starting at the inner tracks - when the first layer ended the head had to be moved from the very outside of the disk to the inside tracks for the second layer.

Most current DVDs are mastered with the first track recorded inside to outside, and the second layer is recorded outside to inside. This avoids having to move the laser a long distance, and hides the layer switch most of the time.

[matticus008]

They are in Canada's Wal-marts. No Polaroid brand though.
I'd like to see some evidence of that. That price would be well below what other vendors are charging, and as someone who lived in Vancouver for two years, I'm not inclined to believe that Canadian Walmarts offer very much of quality--their higher end products are generally no cheaper than other retailers.

Their website doesn't even list any 1080p LCDs, and Futureshop's cheapest 1080p is $1299. I can't imagine Walmart beating out another big-box supplier by $500.

Brand, model number, and price, please.

[TMay]

Well I had a whole lot to say, but my session timed out, but wanted to at least convey the highlights.

I think any technology war like this is bad for namely the consumer, second if Sony doesn't screw things up they can be successful at this, third I can feel for those adopting HD DVD, and those who purchased early Blue-Ray players and can't play the newer disks. Last I am thankful for the forums here, I don't post much but I do a lot of reading, and I have to say the Apple community as a whole are a great bunch of People indeed.

Please stop with the misinformation regarding Blu-Ray.

Blu-Ray players of the first generation, v1.0, will be able to play future Blu-Ray disks quite well, thank you. What you won't get is Bonus View (which is Picture-In-Picture) which arrived with v1.1, and Blu-Ray Live (which is interactivity via the internet) which is upcoming soon in v2.0.

All Blu-Ray players are 1080p while some of the intial HD-DVD players were 1080i.

Not a deal breaker for most people.

[mac-er]

What everyone seems to forget is that Apple doesn't manufacture HD players or sell movies. They do make computers that are used to create movie content, however, regardless of final output format. They don't have to pick one "side" or another. In fact, they can't.

:cool:

They do decide what type of players/burners to put in their computers though, and format their OS will accommodate.

[SactoGuy18]

Folks,

In my humble opinion, there is a lot of ridiculous FUD in regards to Blu-ray's future now that Toshiba plans to phase out HD-DVD.

I do see the following:

1) Now that manufacturers don't have to choose between formats and the Profile 1.1 and 2.0 specifications are finalized, the cost of Blu-ray players will start to rapidly drop, especially with new chipsets for console players.

2) I expect the majority Blu-ray discs to use either VC-1 or AVC encoding, especially now that computer workstation power is good enough to do either VC-1 or AVC video encoding fairly quickly; that's the nice thing about the general availability of quad-core CPU's from AMD and Intel at reasonable prices. Also, with VC-1 or AVC encoding, it frees up storage space on the disc so you can put in multilanguage/commentary soundtracks and supplemental features on the same disc. You may see some movies still encoded in MPEG-2, but they will be more carefully mastered to avoid MPEG-2 "aritifacts" in fast-moving motion.

3) I expect many Blu-ray releases--especially big, "epic" movies--to use either Dolby TrueHD or DTA Master Audio lossless audio encoding. Can you imagine the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy with a 7.1 DTS Master Audio soundtrack? :D Conventional Dolby Digital and DTS audio soundtracks will still be used on many modern movies, older movies, and TV shows.

[angelwatt]

And yet I still don't see myself ever buying a Blu-Ray. Waste of money.

[TMay]

Folks,

In my humble opinion, there is a lot of ridiculous FUD in regards to Blu-ray's future now that Toshiba plans to phase out HD-DVD.

I do see the following:

1) Now that manufacturers don't have to choose between formats and the Profile 1.1 and 2.0 specifications are finalized, the cost of Blu-ray players will start to rapidly drop, especially with new chipsets for console players.

2) I expect the majority Blu-ray discs to use either VC-1 or AVC encoding, especially now that computer workstation power is good enough to do either VC-1 or AVC video encoding fairly quickly; that's the nice thing about the general availability of quad-core CPU's from AMD and Intel at reasonable prices. Also, with VC-1 or AVC encoding, it frees up storage space on the disc so you can put in multilanguage/commentary soundtracks and supplemental features on the same disc. You may see some movies still encoded in MPEG-2, but they will be more carefully mastered to avoid MPEG-2 "aritifacts" in fast-moving motion.

3) I expect many Blu-ray releases--especially big, "epic" movies--to use either Dolby TrueHD or DTA Master Audio lossless audio encoding. Can you imagine the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy with a 7.1 DTS Master Audio soundtrack? :D Conventional Dolby Digital and DTS audio soundtracks will still be used on many modern movies, older movies, and TV shows.

Cool feature is that AVCHD video cameras can output AVC files via a dedicated DVD burner playable on a Blu-Ray player. Also, I use SD flash via PS3 and a Panasonic DMP-BD30K right out of the camera. Big problem is lack of AVCHD output from apple video apps; yet another reason for waiting for a Blu-Ray burner BTO.

[tcoleman]

iTunes is the reason SACD failed...

:confused: You lost me there. How did that happen again? I mean, a format that was designed to give higher fidelity than CD, and which basically had its entire purpose justified to the public as such failed because of iTunes, which is not even in the same market?

SACD failed because CDs were just good enough to make it not worthwhile for most to buy SACDs. Draconian copy protection schemes didn't help. You could say that the CD was the reason for SACD to fail, but saying iTunes was the reason is quite a stretch.

[Evangelion]

I know you are joking but on a serious note....
Having Apple become the only option would doom the computer industry. they already make a buggy OS out of the box.

But not quite as buggy as Microsoft does. Not even close.

[Evangelion]

Yes, just like they force us to buy a PS3, Xbox 360, and Wii to be able to play all games.

But most people are not interested in playing "all the games". And the three are a bit different from each other. But with HD-formats things would be different since all studios release content that people want to see. Same might not apply to consoles. And with consoles the situation is different. We have fans of games made by Nintendo (for example). In movies, we do NOT have fans of movies made by Universal. In consoles and games, people do gather around companies and game-studios, in movies that does not happen.

And let's not forget who started this format war, breaking away from the logical successor to DVD in order to create their own incompatible format.

What makes HD-DVD a "logical successor"? Because it was backed by the DVD-forum? Is your logic so that anything that gets backed by that particular group, should automatically become the new standard? It doesn't quite work that way. And as far as the consumer was concerned, there was no difference between the two when looking from the perspective of the DVD. Systems in both camps could play back DVD's just fine, DVD-players could not play back either format. How exactly was HD-DVD different from that perspective? What benefit does DVD-forum bring?

[SiliconAddict]

Please stop with the misinformation regarding Blu-Ray.

Blu-Ray players of the first generation, v1.0, will be able to play future Blu-Ray disks quite well, thank you. What you won't get is Bonus View (which is Picture-In-Picture) which arrived with v1.1, and Blu-Ray Live (which is interactivity via the internet) which is upcoming soon in v2.0.

All Blu-Ray players are 1080p while some of the intial HD-DVD players were 1080i.

Not a deal breaker for most people.

Ummm wow. That is known as spin. So you are telling me that people who dropped at minimum of $300, and realistically more like $400 on a BR player won't be able to use all its features, and no one is going to care? Wow. What is the color of the sky in your world? Pink? Brown? Purple? Because here in the real world companies finish a spec for a product before they launch it.
Watch for the class action lawsuits against the various companies as this hits the fan. Mark my words right now...someone is going to get sued.

How exactly was HD-DVD different from that perspective? What benefit does DVD-forum bring?

Other then credibility and a finalized format out of the gates? I guess not much. :rolleyes:

[Puckman]

apple was delaying the new mbp until the format war was over. who else is super stoked to watch blu-rays on a 15" screen?!

Sorry. Noobie question here. But are current MBP DVD drives unable to read Blu Ray discs? Or simply unable to display the higher definition?

[Flyer0815]

Sorry. Noobie question here. But are current MBP DVD drives unable to read Blu Ray discs? Or simply unable to display the higher definition?

Blu-Ray is a completely different beast than DVD. No Apple computer has the ability to view blu-ray discs out of the box.

[Puckman]

Blu-Ray is a completely different beast than DVD. No Apple computer has the ability to view blu-ray discs out of the box.

Ahhhh! And maybe future MBPs might...got it.