Next Mobile Intel Processors and Platform (Montevina) Due in June 2008

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Digitimes reports (http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20080218PD210.html) that Intel is poised to launch the Montevina platform at Computex Taipei 2008, which takes place from June 3-7, 2008.

The Montevina platform is the next revision to their mobile platform and will carry the consumer brand "Centrino 2" to distiguish it from the current "Centrino" brand which has encompassed a number of revisions (Carmel, Sonoma, Napa and Santa Rosa).

The six new 45nm notebook CPUs will feature a 1066MHz Front Side Bus with clock speeds ranging from 2.26-3.06GHz. The recently released Penryn processors range from 2.1 to 2.8GHz and offer a 800MHz Front Side Bus. The Penryn processors have not yet been incorporated into Apple's notebook line, despite persistent rumors of an imminent release.

Meanwhile, Digitimes also notes that Intel is planning on releasing 45-nm processors similar to the MacBook Air's custom processor in the 3rd quarter of this year.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/18/next-mobile-intel-processors-montevina-due-in-june-2008/)

[BWhaler]

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Do these have the quad core option for laptops?

That would be crazy speed for a laptop.

[Roller]

Hmmm.... always something better on the way. I'm still going to get a Penryn MBP if one comes out, though.

[nnkd]

This definitely complicates things. Makes waiting for a new MBP more appealing and makes the wait less than what I originally suspected for Montevina. Good news though! :)

[Dicx]

If I was Apple I would skip Penryn and just wait for the new chips. It makes sense if you are in the education market. June 2008 is right in the prime buying season for incoming college students. I heard Dell is possibly coming out with their Latitude E series in July August with the new chipset. No word if they are doing Penryn Latitudes or not. XPS yes but business machines who knows.

Remember the MBP's revved on 6/5/07 last year. No reason to put Penryn in now if you plan on doing the best for the summer time frame. And it would look bad to have new systems for a few months and bump them again. But Apple hasn't done that before have they ;)

[J@ffa]

If I was Apple I would skip Penryn and just wait for the new chips. It makes sense if you are in the education market. June 2008 is right in the prime buying season for incoming college students.

That'd be me, then! Anyone know when the processors will actually enter into MacBook Pros? Are we looking at July, or more of a September deal?

[Mac84]

Does increasing the FSB of the processor gives a big impact to the overall speed of a computer?

As far as I know, FSB is the speed between the processor and RAM. The increase in speed will depend on your RAM. Is that true?

[gkarris]

Apple might as well wait - when you are already spending so much money for a MBP. Wouldn't you be upset if they update it and you buy, then they update it again 3 months later?

[Toe]

Intel processor lines are so gat-dang hard to follow!

Yes I know there's a Google out there, but still, I just can't keep these kajillion different intermeshing product-lines straight.

And their naming conventions... worthy of Apple almost. I love Core Duo vs. Core 2 Duo. So reminiscent of MacBook vs MacBook Pro, but with an extra confusing double-double added in.

[thefunkymunky]

I doubt Apple will update the notebooks to Penryn now if Montevina is due in June. You never know. Apple might have an early supply of Montevina-based notebooks ready for release tomorrow. ;)

[InLikeALion]

Apple might as well wait - when you are already spending so much money for a MBP. Wouldn't you be upset if they update it and you buy, then they update it again 3 months later?

No. They might as well update now. For the next 3 months anyone who buys a MBP will be paying in 2008 the same price for july 2007 tech. It's stupid to not put them in for a quick stop-gap update. The penryn proc's are pin-compatible and it would be easy. Waiting for Montevenia would mean it would be STUPID for anyone to choose a MBP between now and summer. Throwing away cash.

[redAPPLE]

I doubt Apple will update the notebooks to Penryn now if Montevina is due in June. You never know. Apple might have an early supply of Montevina-based notebooks ready for release tomorrow. ;)

so that is going to be a rev. a product (again)?

... i'm waiting :D

[ibinco]

The more news that trickle in about monteniva the more im starting to think that apple will just skip the whole Pernyn set. It makes sense really, they might follow through with a price drop on the current Santa Rosa line to encourage sales.

[pine1045]

No matter what the release is or when, news of the next better faster version will be out. It's up to you if you want to wait or not. If Apple releases a new MBP tomorrow, I will probably buy one. If you wanna wait until Montevina that's fine too but by then the next processor will be making news.

I personally could care less about the processor. I wanna see a overhaul of the entire system. A little thinner, higher res display, 256MB Nvidia video card standard, magnetic latch, and easy to access RAM and HD. Am I asking too much?;)

[jbh001]

Still waiting for the GMA X3100 to replace the GMA 950 in the MacMini. Will they skip the X3100 and jump to the X4500 instead? Or do we wait for the summer of 2009 for the Auburndale-Calpella chipset combo that officially eliminates the front side bus?

Or maybe they'll just kill off the Mac Mini altogether since Apple has shown little interest in keeping it refreshed. The only improvements the Mac Mini has seen are simple processor swaps from Core Solo to Core Duo to Core 2 Duo.

[mjstew33]

I personally could care less about the processor. I wanna see a overhaul of the entire system. A little thinner, higher res display, 256MB Nvidia video card standard, magnetic latch, and easy to access RAM and HD. Am I asking too much?;)

Apparently.

Only thing I wanna see is a processor bump and possibly a graphics card update.

[EagerDragon]

Well the MBP is in short supply and in back order for large purchases, this tell me they are upgrading NOW as in tomorrow or sometime this month.

I do not know, but it maybe possible that this new chip may be released under special arrangement between Intel and Apple instead of waiting for June.

Who knows but something is coming in Feb.

[akadmon]

If I was Apple I would skip Penryn and just wait for the new chips.

Go away!!!

[jbh001]

And their naming conventions... worthy of Apple almost. I love Core Duo vs. Core 2 Duo. So reminiscent of MacBook vs MacBook Pro, but with an extra confusing double-double added in.Then you'll love it when Nehalem comes out at the end of 2008/beginning of 2009. I've heard its official name will be Core 3 Duo. :D

[akadmon]

Apple might as well wait - when you are already spending so much money for a MBP. Wouldn't you be upset if they update it and you buy, then they update it again 3 months later?

No.

[lasuther]

Apple might as well wait - when you are already spending so much money for a MBP. Wouldn't you be upset if they update it and you buy, then they update it again 3 months later?

What in the world makes you think Apple will update to Montevina in June. Assuming it gets announced on time, there might be weeks to month before it gets released to manufacturers. Then there could be additional weeks or months before Apple decides to put it in their computers.

I would expect Montevina to make it into Apple products sometime in July or August for back to school shopping. But I also thought the MacBook Pros were going to get updated in January this year.

[dAlen]

Apple might as well wait - when you are already spending so much money for a MBP. Wouldn't you be upset if they update it and you buy, then they update it again 3 months later?

Well, the fact is that every three months they are updated even if not implemented...so which is worse/better?

Intel has the chips out...so might as well have the choice to use them, not say "well I just bought mine," technology forever moves forward. :)

But with the rate Apple is going, with Intels announcement in Jan (1st week), and here we are headed toward end of march, it could well be the end of July or early August before the monteniva chips are adopted.

Or they (Apple) does skip it (penryn) altogether.
They may want to put Penryn into the iMacs when they release Monentinva into the Macbook pros...to make a difference in the pro line...albeit a lot of pros are using the imac, so it would be nice if they did not go the silly route just mentioned. :)

Peace

dAlen

[Lone Deranger]

If true, then this casts a shadow over a febuary MBP update of any significance. Might be an idea to expect a mere speed-bump now and a major overhaul late summer.

[Eidorian]

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Do these have the quad core option for laptops?

That would be crazy speed for a laptop.There's a quad core option for Montevina.

Still waiting for the GMA X3100 to replace the GMA 950 in the MacMini. Will they skip the X3100 and jump to the X4500 instead? Or do we wait for the summer of 2009 for the Calpella chipset? Or maybe they'll just kill off the Mac Mini altogether since Apple has show little interest in keeping it refreshed. The only improvements the Mac Mini has seen are simple processor swaps from Core Solo to Core Duo to Core 2 Duo.You're going to see Santa Rosa based Mac mini eventually. Apple is really struggling to differentiate their laptop only based desktops.

[Techguy172]

Now I'm curious of how much of a difference this will make. But I think it's higher ram speeds we need more than anything right now. Quad Core's aren't coming for a while end of this year begging of next year.

[Toe]

Yes I know there's a Google out there, but still, I just can't keep these kajillion different intermeshing product-lines straight.
Oh, wait. This clears it all up. Just go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Intel_processors
and you can easily see the eight processor lines. Or twenty number series. Or 51 code names.

Then all you have to do is cross-reference that against the small list of (I can't count how many) chipsets!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets
http://users.erols.com/chare/chipsets.htm

It's all so simple now.

[rezonat0r]

I'll be waiting for the "rev B" Centrino 2 stuff in 2009. :D

[diamond.g]

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Do these have the quad core option for laptops?

That would be crazy speed for a laptop.
Penryn calls for quad core in 2H'08, so yes.
If I was Apple I would skip Penryn and just wait for the new chips. It makes sense if you are in the education market. June 2008 is right in the prime buying season for incoming college students. I heard Dell is possibly coming out with their Latitude E series in July August with the new chipset. No word if they are doing Penryn Latitudes or not. XPS yes but business machines who knows.

Remember the MBP's revved on 6/5/07 last year. No reason to put Penryn in now if you plan on doing the best for the summer time frame. And it would look bad to have new systems for a few months and bump them again. But Apple hasn't done that before have they ;)

Sigh, Penryn is the CPU, Montevina is the platofrm that also includes the chipset, wireless and cpu. Because Apple uses it's own wireless it isn't using the Santa Rosa Platform and it won't be using the Montevina Platform. It is only confusing new folks that don't know any better.

[jbh001]

You're going to see Santa Rosa based Mac mini eventually.Like in 2011 and just in time for Windows 7. :mad:

Besides it makes one wonder just how much legacy hardware Apple plans to continue to support with future OS releases. The more the Mac Mini lags, the more it looks like the Mac Mini is going the way of the PowerPC Macs.

Maybe Apple will refresh the Mac Mini when they get around to refreshing their displays (when LED backlit LCDs become more affordable).

[EagerDragon]

There's a quad core option for Montevina.

You're going to see Santa Rosa based Mac mini eventually. Apple is really struggling to differentiate their laptop only based desktops.

I need to upgrade to Intel sooner or later, would love to get a big jump in performance like Quad core in an MBP. Probably won't happen, but heck one can still hope for a dream system.

Either way I have to go soon to Intel, Aperture, FCE, and others should run a lot more smoothly than on a PPC.

[Eidorian]

I need to upgrade to Intel sooner or later, would love to get a big jump in performance like Quad core in an MBP. Probably won't happen, but heck one can still hope for a dream system.

Either way I have to go soon to Intel, Aperture, FCE, and others should run a lot more smoothly than on a PPC.With the smaller motherboard form factor in Montevina I wouldn't be surprised to see a quad core option for the 17" MacBook Pro and the 24" iMac.

Take note that the QX9300 has about the same TDP (~45W) as the current X7900 in the iMac. Get ready for another absurd shrink of the iMac as well.

[roland.g]

Apple won't put these new chips in in June or July. They will update soon to Penryn and the new chips, once supply is available will come out in September or even October. Remember just because Intel is releasing them at a conference in June doesn't mean they will be readily available to manufacturers right away. Same thing happened with Merom chips. HP, Dell and everyone else advertised them but you had a 4 week wait. Apple waited till they could actually ship.

Now what I do find interested in a 45nm chip that is MBA sized. Would be interesting to see if that makes it into the next revision of the MBA. And at what premium?

[agojes]

No matter what the release is or when, news of the next better faster version will be out. It's up to you if you want to wait or not. If Apple releases a new MBP tomorrow, I will probably buy one. If you wanna wait until Montevina that's fine too but by then the next processor will be making news.

I personally could care less about the processor. I wanna see a overhaul of the entire system. A little thinner, higher res display, 256MB Nvidia video card standard, magnetic latch, and easy to access RAM and HD. Am I asking too much?;)

Actually speaking, me too. I could care less about the penryn update. What I can't stand is if Apple redesign the current MBP. If that thing happen, I couldn't forgive myself. Especially if Apple indeed introduces the MT Trackpad in the refreshed MBP.
However, I think the MBP is thin enough already. How much thinner can we expect the MBP get? Won't it feel flaky if the design got thinner? I'm imagining carrying 15" laptop and it's less than 1" thick. I think it'd be a delicate product and must be labeled "fragile" next to the apple logo?

[Norris3eb]

Hmmm.... always something better on the way. I'm still going to get a Penryn MBP if one comes out, though.


With the time schedule of June, one would think that Apple would just bypass Penryn alltogether, and go with the MV processors.

I'll be pissed too, though. I want Penryn today.

My biggest deal is wanting to hold off for fear that when I buy mine, it will be replaced by a newer model in WEEKS.

[twoodcc]

good news. hopefully Apple won't wait to update the current notebooks that long though.

[johnnyjibbs]

Just because it is coming out in June does not mean it will be in an Apple notebook in June. Penryn is a case in point here.

Normally in the past, Apple has held back on updates when there has been a derth of anything in the pipeline (back in the good ol' G4 days), so as to have something to provide an update with further down the line when the line hasn't been updated for almost a year...

But there is a lot in the pipeline this year - as proven by this story - so Apple has no excuse but to get in on the Penryn game, particularly as the MBP hasn't been updated for some time.

I don't believe the delay has much to do with the Air - they're different markets after all. Which must all point to one thing: incorporation of the new touch-pad and keyboard, all taking a little more time.

[Norris3eb]

Apple won't put these new chips in in June or July. They will update soon to Penryn and the new chips, once supply is available will come out in September or even October. Remember just because Intel is releasing them at a conference in June doesn't mean they will be readily available to manufacturers right away. Same thing happened with Merom chips. HP, Dell and everyone else advertised them but you had a 4 week wait. Apple waited till they could actually ship.

Now what I do find interested in a 45nm chip that is MBA sized. Would be interesting to see if that makes it into the next revision of the MBA. And at what premium?



Already talking of an MBA revision? PUH-LEEZE! That piece of **** should've never seen the prototype model.

[Thomas2006]

Still waiting for the GMA X3100 to replace the GMA 950 in the MacMini. Will they skip the X3100 and jump to the X4500 instead? Or do we wait for the summer of 2009 for the Auburndale-Calpella chipset combo that officially eliminates the front side bus?

Or maybe they'll just kill off the Mac Mini altogether since Apple has shown little interest in keeping it refreshed. The only improvements the Mac Mini has seen are simple processor swaps from Core Solo to Core Duo to Core 2 Duo.
Don't worry, the Mac mini is not going anywhere, anytime soon. I am expecting the Mac mini to get updated no later that a month before the MacBook gets updated with a Penryn processor. Remember, the Mac mini is an "entry-level" machine so it will lag behind the MacBook.

The last updates saw the Mac mini move from a Core Duo on the Napa platform to a Core 2 Duo on the Napa platform, and shortly after, the MacBook moved from a Core 2 Duo on the Napa platform to a Core 2 Duo on the Santa Rosa platform.

[diamond.g]

With the time schedule of June, one would think that Apple would just bypass Penryn alltogether, and go with the MV processors.

I'll be pissed too, though. I want Penryn today.

My biggest deal is wanting to hold off for fear that when I buy mine, it will be replaced by a newer model in WEEKS.

No such thing as Montevina Processors... Cantiga will use Penryn, until Nelahem is released.

I could have sworn this was discussed already.

[carlitofox]

isn't wwdc in june this year ?????

don't see them having anything to announce so they might wait off and annonuce new MBP's with quad core and an ad saying "see IBM thats how you do it"............:D

[a104375]

Intel processor lines are so gat-dang hard to follow!

Yes I know there's a Google out there, but still, I just can't keep these kajillion different intermeshing product-lines straight.

And their naming conventions... worthy of Apple almost. I love Core Duo vs. Core 2 Duo. So reminiscent of MacBook vs MacBook Pro, but with an extra confusing double-double added in.

i agree there are deffinitly to many processor lines and are so hard to follow they come out with new types of processors all the time and that macs use som many different ones but i hope they wait to switch processors that way they dont change twice

[Diatribe]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

Do these have the quad core option for laptops?

That would be crazy speed for a laptop.

Well they will be coming for Montevina but won't really be that much faster as there still aren't that many multi-core apps out there. Besides, they'll still be crazy expensive so who knows whether Apple will actually use them.

I'd rather have them finally offer higher capacity hard drives. 320GB HDs have been out forever.

[diamond.g]

i agree there are deffinitly to many processor lines and are so hard to follow they come out with new types of processors all the time and that macs use som many different ones but i hope they wait to switch processors that way they dont change twice

But they haven't. We have gone from Merom to Penryn. What everyone is getting confused about is Santa Rosa != CPU, Montevina != CPU. They are platforms. Platforms that Apple doesn't even use. If people here were to stop calling them by a platform that isn't used maybe the confusion would stop.

[senzung]

All I want for next refresh is some Quad core chips model or Thinner Design or MultiTouch pad, etc...

not some 0.2 Ghz "update" again... :(

altho I know 80% of chances would be latter :(:(

[Diatribe]

But they haven't. We have gone from Merom to Penryn. What everyone is getting confused about is Santa Rosa != CPU, Montevina != CPU. They are platforms. Platforms that Apple doesn't even use. If people here were to stop calling them by a platform that isn't used maybe the confusion would stop.

They don't? I was under the impression that they did. I just heard that they use their own wireless card but apart from that...

[Hooka]

For all you newbs waiting this long for a MBP update. If you have waited this long for a mbp, YOU DON'T NEED ONE. Stop the madness and just buy a damn computer already. All day on this site, "when is the mbp coming" Get a life.

[roland.g]

Already talking of an MBA revision? PUH-LEEZE! That piece of **** should've never seen the prototype model.

Sorry but I'm not talking about a revision in the sense of something just go released and I can't wait for rev. B to come out. Just speculating. But I think you obviously totally miss the point of that machine. It is what a notebook truly should be. Light. If I need to do something intensive I use a desktop. When and if I need or want a portable that would be what I get. While the MBP is perfect for the power user and the MB offers more features for the price conscious/college user/middle of the road consumer, the MBA is a perfect option for a 2nd machine to a desktop.

[johnnyjibbs]

For all you newbs waiting this long for a MBP update. If you have waited this long for a mbp, YOU DON'T NEED ONE. Stop the madness and just buy a damn computer already. All day on this site, "when is the mbp coming" Get a life.
Actually, a MBP is an expensive item to buy and something that most people will use for 3-5 years. Nobody wants to buy something that they could have bought for the same price and been enjoying since last July, especially only to find that a price cut and/or better features for the same money are available a few weeks later.

High-end computers (e.g. Apple) are a long-term investment for most people, and so it makes sense to wait for an update if you know one is imminent.

It doesn't mean we don't "need" or want one.

[diamond.g]

They don't? I was under the impression that they did. I just heard that they use their own wireless card but apart from that...

Nope. You are right in saying Apple is missing the wireless. Since that is the case they are not really using the platform. They are just using certain chips from the platform. It is similar as someone saying they have a Mac when infact they are running OS X on generic PC hardware. Apple is only using the chipset (Calistoga, Crestline, or Cantiga) and the CPU's (Merom or Penryn). That is it.

[2bcool2]

For all you newbs waiting this long for a MBP update. If you have waited this long for a mbp, YOU DON'T NEED ONE. Stop the madness and just buy a damn computer already. All day on this site, "when is the mbp coming" Get a life.

i think the fact that WE all are not prepared to buy 9 month old technology at the same price it was 9 months ago, shows that we have more intelligence than you who is telling us to buy now!!
which kinda means we willl be getting a life, a much better one than you

bring on the dancing girls


by dancing girls i mean MBP

[Marion]

High-end computers (e.g. Apple) are a long-term investment for most people, and so it makes sense to wait for an update if you know one is imminent.

It doesn't mean we don't "need" or want one.

I totally agree with you. I'll buy the Penryn version tomorrow if it's there, if not, I'll wait for that SUPER Tuesday. Why I would like to add 6+ months of age to a 2.5-3K$ system if I still can't wait some days... weeks ? (but not too much, please Apple... do it quick)

Anyway, I don't think that guys that complaint about rumor on this site are at the right place... and if they do, are they saying that they read anyway all our replies... sounds silly.

[fuziwuzi]

i can see reasons why apple would just skip straight to monteva.

BUT

there is currently a lack of stock in the 15-17inch mbp market. people in another thread have stated they have ordered 15-17inch (or asked for them in store) and they being told they are shipping later, or call back mid this week.

NOW

when stock comes back in, and these people just get the current SR, it would be safe to assume that penryn will be skipped for monteva. otherwise, we will see penryns released.

i am very interested to see how apple fills these orders that are currently being delayed.

PS. this is the thread where customers have claimed to have order mbps with apple but the ship date keeps getting pushed back
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=435212

[saule cogneur]

For all you newbs waiting this long for a MBP update. If you have waited this long for a mbp, YOU DON'T NEED ONE. Stop the madness and just buy a damn computer already. All day on this site, "when is the mbp coming" Get a life.It's a good thing we have pundits like yourself to point out the obvious. Were you hoping for a gold star for momentarily descending to our level? Page 2 threads like this one hardly exist for a functional purpose. Is it so bad to shed tears on common shoulders? It's not like anyone forces you to read our lamentations.

In 21st century computing, the word "need" is pretty silly; I'll admit that. 95% of us users would do just fine on a computer that is three years old. However, if we're about to drop 2K on a machine, it would be nice to get our money's worth and not have our computer's value drop by 50% in a matter of weeks.

[QCassidy352]

Nope. You are right in saying Apple is missing the wireless. Since that is the case they are not really using the platform. They are just using certain chips from the platform. It is similar as someone saying they have a Mac when infact they are running OS X on generic PC hardware. Apple is only using the chipset (Calistoga, Crestline, or Cantiga) and the CPU's (Merom or Penryn). That is it.

Your statements are technically true, but misleading. Apple may not use SR's wireless, but it does use the the rest of the platform - the chips (merom) and the chipset (e.g. 800 mhz fsb). I understand that you're technically correct, and that you're trying to clear up confusion, but I think you're making it worse. It's a lot clearer to say that current macs use SR, because honestly, who cares whether they use their own wireless card or not?

Here's the 2 cent version:
Merom = a processor. It can run on either the napa or the SR chipset. The original core 2 duo machines apple put out were on the napa chipset, and the current ones are on the santa rosa chipset.

Penryn = a newer processor. It can run on either the SR or the Montevina chipset. If apple releases MBPs say, tomorrow, they will be Penryn on a SR chipset. The hypothesized June MBPs would be Penryn on a Montevina chipset.

[InLikeALion]

Your statements are technically true, but misleading. Apple may not use SR's wireless, but it does use the the rest of the platform - the chips (merom) and the chipset (e.g. 800 mhz fsb). I understand that you're technically correct, and that you're trying to clear up confusion, but I think you're making it worse. It's a lot clearer to say that current macs use SR, because honestly, who cares whether they use their own wireless card or not?

Here's the 2 cent version:
Merom = a processor. It can run on either the napa or the SR chipset. The original core 2 duo machines apple put out were on the napa chipset, and the current ones are on the santa rosa chipset.

Penryn = a newer processor. It can run on either the SR or the Montevina chipset. If apple releases MBPs say, tomorrow, they will be Penryn on a SR chipset. The hypothesized June MBPs would be Penryn on a Montevina chipset.

I'm glad you could put that into words on our behalf - I think this reflects the general understanding the mac community has taken towards the Intel chips/sets in recent Macs. We refer to them as SR knowing (some of us) that it isn't technically correct, but is the least confusing and most appropriate way of delineating the different model.s

[amac4me]

I'll place my bets that new MBP's will be here this week or the next. The current generation of MBP's have run their course and are overdue for an update. No way Apple would wait until June/July. Ever since the MBP was announced in January 2006, Apple has had at a minimum 1 update to the MBP line each year (a total of 2 releases in the year) and they always tend to release some sort of updated (in Nov. 2007 it was a processor upgrade option) to the MBP lineup.

As for Montevina, there's no way Apple would wait until later in the year to release a revision to the MBP. It wouldn't make sense as portable sales would take a hit. Apple portables outsell desktops so rest assured that Apple has a pipeline of at least 2 MBP revisions for 2008. We're likely to see the Montevina based MBP's probably around the September timeframe.

[OS X Dude]

And everyone is surprised by the lack of a Penryn-based MacBook Pro? A 3 GHz MBP with 1066MHz FSB would FLY!!!!!!

[diamond.g]

Your statements are technically true, but misleading. Apple may not use SR's wireless, but it does use the the rest of the platform - the chips (merom) and the chipset (e.g. 800 mhz fsb). I understand that you're technically correct, and that you're trying to clear up confusion, but I think you're making it worse. It's a lot clearer to say that current macs use SR, because honestly, who cares whether they use their own wireless card or not?
My main annoyance is how many people don't even know that Penryn is a processor and not a platform. Those are the same people that get upset when you tell tham later that they still are using the same processors that others were using before. The multiplier didn't change, just the FSB. BTW, Napa, Santa Rosa, and Montevina aren't chipsets either.


I would hope that everyone here would be interested enough in the Mac Platform to be able to tell the difference. I don't expect people as a whole to even care.

I wonder if Apple will try to get a variant that supports DDR2 memory, or if they will go ahead with DDR3 like the Cantiga chipset is supposed to support.

If people are going to wait they might as well wait for Nelahem. The true successor to the Core 2 Architecture. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Intel_uArchs_v1_20.png)

[fuziwuzi]

i am starting to reckon, they will just internal update for the penryns (hoping to be released soon), but do a full revision for montevina.

[amac4me]

i am starting to reckon, they will just internal update for the penryns (hoping to be released soon), but do a full revision for montevina.

I think you're correct. A new design for the MBP is what many want. Perhaps we'll see one when Montevina is released.

[LondonMacs]

A new design would be good with Montevina. Its probably worth the wait!!

:cool::apple:

[Glueeater]

I'm going to college and still can't decide whether or not I want to wait. I'm still waiting on Penryn...I suppose if I don't see a magnetic latch and multi-touch with Penryn I'm going to wait. Either way I will be purchasing one.

[uNext]

For all you newbs waiting this long for a MBP update. If you have waited this long for a mbp, YOU DON'T NEED ONE. Stop the madness and just buy a damn computer already. All day on this site, "when is the mbp coming" Get a life.


I agree.

People waiting obviously have no REAL need for a computer.
I dont see how somebody that rely on their computer to make ends meet can actually wait months to a year for new hardware only to be outdated 6 months later. I dont understand the logic behind it. I guess some people just want to have the latest and dont depend on their computer at all.

I ended up buying the 2.6 model because i needed it for many projects
if i would have waited that means no money. With santa roas everything works fine, The main apps i use are photoshop, fce, aperture and lightroom
and they are fast.

[akadmon]

Apple won't put these new chips in in June or July. They will update soon to Penryn and the new chips, once supply is available will come out in September or even October. Remember just because Intel is releasing them at a conference in June doesn't mean they will be readily available to manufacturers right away. Same thing happened with Merom chips. HP, Dell and everyone else advertised them but you had a 4 week wait. Apple waited till they could actually ship.

Now what I do find interested in a 45nm chip that is MBA sized. Would be interesting to see if that makes it into the next revision of the MBA. And at what premium?

I too think MV will not be implemented in the MBP until sometime in early Fall. Like you said, something happened with Merom. All you newbies should go and check out the "waiting for Merom" threads from August to November of 2006. What we're going through with Penryn is nothing compared to that "disaster".

[jeremyrader]

Actually, a MBP is an expensive item to buy and something that most people will use for 3-5 years. Nobody wants to buy something that they could have bought for the same price and been enjoying since last July, especially only to find that a price cut and/or better features for the same money are available a few weeks later.

High-end computers (e.g. Apple) are a long-term investment for most people, and so it makes sense to wait for an update if you know one is imminent.

It doesn't mean we don't "need" or want one.

The problem, though, is that updates are always imminent. It may not be a few weeks every time; and since I haven't seen Steve Jobs up on stage saying "...and they are available for purchase [pause for effect] March [pause again] 18 [smile and nod until the cheering dies down]," it's nothing but speculation. Calculated speculation, but speculation nonetheless.

Intel's roadmap is pretty clear - tick/tock. So we'll be seeing significant processor changes every year (shrink/architecture), and likely new chipsets in between, making a new platform for each target audience about every 6 months.

It's not people like you that bug/amuse me - ready to buy RIGHT NOW but are pretty sure a small bump in capability is right around the corner and feel the wait is justified. It's those who have been holding out on purchasing because "the next big thing is coming" to the MBP since its release 2 friggin' years ago and do nothing but gripe on the forums about how Apple isn't fast enough to get newly announced products to the table in one breath and how big bad Intel is pushing product changes too fast in the next...

[Aranince]

Can you say...faster Macbooks?

[Zeos]

Remember the MBP's revved on 6/5/07 last year. No reason to put Penryn in now if you plan on doing the best for the summer time frame. And it would look bad to have new systems for a few months and bump them again. But Apple hasn't done that before have they ;)

But don't expect any major MBP updates until the 45 nm chips (such as those used in the MBA) are more widely available. Montevina will still not be a good enough excuse for a major MBP update.

[lazyrighteye]

Penryn will appear in MBP updates within the month.
Montevina won't show up until after back to school (Sept/Oct).

Might be important to keep in mind: the people that post in this thread, on this site and those that even know the words Penryn & Montevina (AND associate them with Intel) make up less than 2% (big fat guess - maybe even less) of Apple's users. ;)

[nnkd]

So let's assume that the MBP line is updating tomorrow with the Penryn chipset. And, Montevina is ready in June, and Apple has them in their laptops by July. Now, according to the Buyer's Guide, the average intermission between upgrades for the MBP is 186 days. That would be mean between tomorrow and July 29 (the final Tuesday of the month), there are 161 days. That's nearly the average upgrade length. This means that Penryn chips will be arriving either this week or next for those Apple customers that have been waiting for months and months and the Montevina chips will find themselves in the MBPs sometime during the summer. Everybody wins? ... well, let's hope that idea makes most people happy at least.

[MYRZ]

For all you newbs waiting this long for a MBP update. If you have waited this long for a mbp, YOU DON'T NEED ONE. Stop the madness and just buy a damn computer already. All day on this site, "when is the mbp coming" Get a life.

Don't tempt me! Just... got... to... hold... on... a... little... longer...

[cmm26red]

i can see reasons why apple would just skip straight to monteva.

BUT

there is currently a lack of stock in the 15-17inch mbp market. people in another thread have stated they have ordered 15-17inch (or asked for them in store) and they being told they are shipping later, or call back mid this week.

NOW

when stock comes back in, and these people just get the current SR, it would be safe to assume that penryn will be skipped for monteva. otherwise, we will see penryns released.


i am very interested to see how apple fills these orders that are currently being delayed.

PS. this is the thread where customers have claimed to have order mbps with apple but the ship date keeps getting pushed back
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=435212

How could they skip Penryn? Penryn is Intels next genertation of processors, i.e. 45nm process. Monteva is there next generation chip set; i.e. it is not a processor! You are mixing Apples and Oranges, so please wiki this info and come back with some facts. instead of inaccurate statements!

[mmendoza27]

So let's assume that the MBP line is updating tomorrow with the Penryn chipset. And, Montevina is ready in June, and Apple has them in their laptops by July. Now, according to the Buyer's Guide, the average intermission between upgrades for the MBP is 186 days. That would be mean between tomorrow and July 29 (the final Tuesday of the month), there are 161 days. That's nearly the average upgrade length.

I agree. With the shortages of MBP's, an update is very imminent. I just started working at an Apple Retail store and I didn't see too many MBP's, there were a lot more MB's available in the back. (I start training Friday) I would imagine this update will happen this week or next (could be Wednesday since today is a holiday).

Penryn processor & Montevina platform should hit around August or September in time for back to school. I love seeing people complain about the upgrades coming, I was doing the same when I was waiting for a Merom processor on the Napa platform. I for sure won't be buying another MBP until late next year, I'm really interested in Nehalem processor/Calpella platform.

If you guys want more info on platforms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino

More about Nehalem (including quad-core laptop processors):http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_%28microarchitecture%29

It's good to brush up on this type of stuff :D

[fuziwuzi]

How could they skip Penryn? Penryn is Intels next genertation of processors, i.e. 45nm process. Monteva is there next generation chip set; i.e. it is not a processor! You are mixing Apples and Oranges, so please wiki this info and come back without some facts. instead of inaccurate statements!

yeah but they are both updates, you can have penryn on SR and montieva. so i was saying they if there do not change to hardware when people get the mbps they are waiting for, then apple will have skipped penryn on SR. then i would look to the next update being penryn on montieva.

(you can't have montieva without penryn. when i said penryn, i was suggesting penryn on SR)

[Cloudsurfer]

Doest my eyes deceive me? 45nm process for MacBook Air?

Here's for 2,0~2,2 GHz MBA's!

[blackbelt]

Hmmm.... always something better on the way. I'm still going to get a Penryn MBP if one comes out, though.

I am waiting for the new MBPs too, you don't think that Apple would wait and use these new Montevina processors instead of the Penron? do you???

[diamond.g]

So let's assume that the MBP line is updating tomorrow with the Penryn chipset.

Penryn isn't a chipset... But otherwise what you propose is viable. Although I am sure it would upset a few people.

[ColonelSmith]

Apple might as well wait - when you are already spending so much money for a MBP. Wouldn't you be upset if they update it and you buy, then they update it again 3 months later?

Totally off-topic but I just noticed your sig.... Go Stargate!

[cmm26red]

I think a great number of you guys are a little confused when it comes to all these fancy names Intel is flying around. First, let’s establish 2 things, 1 is the CPU, or commonly referred to as the processor, and 2 is the computer motherboard chipset.

Penryn = Processor
Montevina = Chipset

2 different things

"In notebooks, Penryn pairs with the mobile chipset series Crestline, which does not support DDR3, although Intel believes future DDR3 support will benefit mobile equipment's power- and heat-constrained environments (i.e Montevina)."

Note that nowhere on this page does it list a Montevina CPU, that is because they do not and will not ever exist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_future_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors

"The successor to Penryn, based on a new post-Core microarchitecture which features the return of hyperthreading, is Nehalem; it was discussed at the September 2007 IDF meeting, though the release date is not until the end of 2008."

Please also note that Montevina does not replace Penryn, it simply replaces the mobile chipset Crestline which is currently being utilized in the MPB! Also, the highest Penryn (after the T9300 and T9500 get dropped in) you will see in a MPB is the 2.8GHz T9600, which will most likely be a silent drop much like the current 2.6Ghz CPU was last fall. The extreme 3.06GHz chip consumes too much power for a mobile setup like the MPB.

I hope this clears things up!

[TurboSC]

man it's crazy watching the shift from supercomputing to smaller chipsets for mobile platforms.

I can't wait to see what ridiculousness comes out from the Apple camp in the next few years.

[Xavier]

Wow lol it seems like Intel is pumping out a new processor every other month

It is going to be amazing to see where this technology is a just a few years!

[nja247]

Sorry but I'm not talking about a revision in the sense of something just go released and I can't wait for rev. B to come out. Just speculating. But I think you obviously totally miss the point of that machine. It is what a notebook truly should be. Light. If I need to do something intensive I use a desktop. When and if I need or want a portable that would be what I get. While the MBP is perfect for the power user and the MB offers more features for the price conscious/college user/middle of the road consumer, the MBA is a perfect option for a 2nd machine to a desktop.

Exactly. Imagine the Air with the same TDP or less and 2GHz or more in power, 4GB Ram and maybe a bump on the hard drive space. I'd actually buy it then! As of now however it's too slow, the processor is too old, and the RAM and hard drive are too small and limited. I think they'll sell a lot more Rev. B's in mid-2008!

[mmendoza27]

Doest my eyes deceive me? 45nm process for MacBook Air?

Here's for 2,0~2,2 GHz MBA's!

It's not so much that the MBA needs a 45nm processor, it's more about the package size and TDP. The MBA uses a 65nm processor, but it's a Small Form Factor package. MBA's also use processors that can dissipate 20 watts of heat, the new Montevina platforms will use processors that have a 17W TDP. Their clock speeds are 1.6 and 1.86 GHZ, but they have a 1066 MHZ front side bus and 6 MB of L2 cache. Those two bumps will help improve the speed of the next MBA.

[Marion]

As for Montevina, there's no way Apple would wait until later in the year to release a revision to the MBP. It wouldn't make sense as portable sales would take a hit. Apple portables outsell desktops so rest assured that Apple has a pipeline of at least 2 MBP revisions for 2008. We're likely to see the Montevina based MBP's probably around the September timeframe.

I agree... with the shares that took a 30% drop in less than 2 months, Apple need to continue to satisfy their current customer and must continu to impress the rest of the world... let's start with an updated MBP !!! ok, an updated MBP won't make any big difference to te stock market, but personaly, I don't think that the MBA had a great impact either (so far anyway).

I have a Thinkpad (PC/windows) right now and really want to change for my first Mac ever. But there is no way I'll buy a 8+ months old design if I know the average update for this platform is 6 months http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#MacBook_Pro The point here is that I'm a new potential customer ready to buy (the dream of any business, right), but for some reason, Apple doesn't follow their 6 months update cyle. As for today, the downside for them is that they never got a single penny from me yet.

[fuziwuzi]

Penryn = Processor
Montevina = Chipset


god you linked to wiki and still got it wrong :/

montevina is a platform, and incorporates CPU, chipset, and wireless. it does include specs for vid, but those can be bypassed by using discrete graphics.

as some mention earlier in this thread the current MBPS are not true SR are they do not use intel wireless

so basically when u say montieva, it is implied that it includes penryn, it would be like saying car without implying wheels :/

[Norris3eb]

Sorry but I'm not talking about a revision in the sense of something just go released and I can't wait for rev. B to come out. Just speculating. But I think you obviously totally miss the point of that machine. It is what a notebook truly should be. Light. If I need to do something intensive I use a desktop. When and if I need or want a portable that would be what I get. While the MBP is perfect for the power user and the MB offers more features for the price conscious/college user/middle of the road consumer, the MBA is a perfect option for a 2nd machine to a desktop.


MBA is also the perfect machine for the FOOL -- who just paid $1600 and got..NOTHING.

I have an $800 PC laptop that has 4 USBs, DVI, VGA, Both WIRED and WIRELESS Ethernet, and a bigger hard drive. It's also 9x times faster than the MBA. And it's 1" thick.

How you like them Apples? (haa!)

[nja247]

But don't expect any major MBP updates until the 45 nm chips (such as those used in the MBA) are more widely available. Montevina will still not be a good enough excuse for a major MBP update.

Air's processor is not 45 nm, it's a die-shrunk 60 nm merom.

[lazyrighteye]

I think a great number of you guys are a little confused when it comes to all these fancy names Intel is flying around. First, let’s establish 2 things, 1 is the CPU, or commonly referred to as the processor, and 2 is the computer motherboard chipset.

Penryn = Processor
Montevina = Chipset

2 different things

"In notebooks, Penryn pairs with the mobile chipset series Crestline, which does not support DDR3, although Intel believes future DDR3 support will benefit mobile equipment's power- and heat-constrained environments (i.e Montevina)."

Note that nowhere on this page does it list a Montevina CPU, that is because they do not and will not ever exist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_future_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors

"The successor to Penryn, based on a new post-Core microarchitecture which features the return of hyperthreading, is Nehalem; it was discussed at the September 2007 IDF meeting, though the release date is not until the end of 2008."

Please also note that Montevina does not replace Penryn, it simply replaces the mobile chipset Crestline which is currently being utilized in the MPB! Also, the highest Penryn (after the T9300 and T9500 get dropped in) you will see in a MPB is the 2.8GHz T9600, which will most likely be a silent drop much like the current 2.6Ghz CPU was last fall. The extreme 3.06GHz chip consumes too much power for a mobile setup like the MPB.

I hope this clears things up!

Thanks for clearing that up (at least for me)!

[ajx22]

...and 90% of the people even reading this thread still won't 'get it right' - as most people just don't care. They know that the "penryn" is the 'new' thing - and it's going to make the system faster somehow - and that's about as far as it goes (oh; and knowing the name of the new thing sounds better then the new thingamabobber).

Some of us have been in the industry for 20+ years and know the real breakdowns - but for the masses who are simply 'using' the device - they won't 'get it' cuz they just don't care.

In other words - a proc or chipset or architecture by any name is still a 'thingamabobber' or at the very least; a 'thingamajigger'.

:D

[DanBUK]

How you like them Apples? (haa!)

4 USB ports?!:eek: Er, it runs, like Windows.

[diamond.g]

...and 90% of the people even reading this thread still won't 'get it right' - as most people just don't care. They know that the "penryn" is the 'new' thing - and it's going to make the system faster somehow - and that's about as far as it goes (oh; and knowing the name of the new thing sounds better then the new thingamabobber).

Some of us have been in the industry for 20+ years and know the real breakdowns - but for the masses who are simply 'using' the device - they won't 'get it' cuz they just don't care.

In other words - a proc or chipset or architecture by any name is still a 'thingamabobber' or at the very least; a 'thingamajigger'.

:D

:( So true.

[Digital Skunk]

After skimming through a lot of this thread I can see about three things going on:

1) Many of the Apple zealots and newbies believe that Apple will skip the much needed update to Penryn. NOT HAPPENING. Apple should and better update because the advances that are gained with Penryn are enough for plenty of people not wanting to pay for overpriced hardware.

2) Many of those same people don't understand the difference between the chipset and CPU architecture that Intel produces, NOR the fact that the 3.06 GHz chip won't make it into the 17" and 15" MBP. FACE THE FACTS, Apple won't give us a machine like that, especially if the consumers want a MBA like MBP. If Apple makes the notebook thinner, then they won't be packing any high end hardware, just like the current model. I doubt we will see a quad core MBP or even a 3GHz laptop from Apple until much later in 2009.

3) Many people understand that Apple should update to Penryn, won't release a Montevina MBP until August or even later because that's how Apple does, and that Apple may, by that time, neglect the Penryn MBP and update everything else first. GOOD! I am glad those people understand and realize the truth about may happen in the next few weeks and months.

There will and needs to be a Penryn update and Apple needs to redesign the MBP case and make it able to fit the faster and hotter chips that Intel already has on the market.

[DanBUK]

...and 90% of the people even reading this thread still won't 'get it right' ...
Some of us have been in the industry for 20+ years ... but for the masses who are simply 'using' the device...

Simply USING the device?! And what pray tell have you been doing with it? Making love to the ethernet port? Is that why people are bashing the MBA?

I thought this was a place where us "elitist snobs" (http://www.tuaw.com/2008/02/17/the-street-mac-owners-are-snobs/) could mingle in harmony- are you trying to cause a splinter group who have found higher planes of interaction with their computer?

I found todays Engadget table enlightening. A kind commenter even translated the Japanese...

1) Platform generation
2) Platform branding
3) Release date
4) Processor family
5) Processor codename
6) Manufacturing process
7) No. of cores
8) L2 Cache size
9) 64-bit support
10) Highest FSB speed
11) Chipset group
12) Highest memory speed supported
13) Graphics core
14) Sound
15) Wireless connection group
16) Wireless connection specification

[ridehard]

so, if montevina is a chipset, maybe the MB layout has to change a bit, so maybe apple could change the design.
To bad its in june, cant wait that long, hope the "tomorrow" refresh will be a nice one, so i can buy my 1º :apple:

[diamond.g]

All that was being said is that people here, in general, will continue to use the wrong terminology when talking about CPUs, chipsets, and platforms.
Since the misinformation is recycled by most (if not all) Mac websites it won't be fixed.


Simply USING the device?! And what pray tell have you been doing with it? Making love to the ethernet port? Is that why people are bashing the MBA?

I thought this was a place where us "elitist snobs" (http://www.tuaw.com/2008/02/17/the-street-mac-owners-are-snobs/) could mingle in harmony- are you trying to cause a splinter group who have found higher planes of interaction with their computer?

I found todays Engadget table enlightening. A kind commenter even translated the Japanese...

1) Platform generation
2) Platform branding
3) Release date
4) Processor family
5) Processor codename
6) Manufacturing process
7) No. of cores
8) L2 Cache size
9) 64-bit support
10) Highest FSB speed
11) Chipset group
12) Highest memory speed supported
13) Graphics core
14) Sound
15) Wireless connection group
16) Wireless connection specification

[diamond.g]

so, if montevina is a chipset, maybe the MB layout has to change a bit, so maybe apple could change the design.
To bad its in june, cant wait that long, hope the "tomorrow" refresh will be a nice one, so i can buy my 1º :apple:

Montevina isn't a chipset... it is a platform. That Apple doesn't use.

[t0mat0]

Hmmm can someone help fill in the blanks for laptops and desktops?

The CPU = Penryn now, next update will be .....
THE Desktop Chipset now = Santa Rosa The next update will be the Montevina.

But Apple doesn't use this? And also

Mobile Apple computers can use Penryn CPU, the next update will be Nehalem.
Mobile Apple computers use Crestline mobile chipset now The next update will be .... Montevina?

What does Apple use Chipset and CPU wise, and what's up next, when? (and for the diehard neverbuyers, what's on the horizon after that?)

[Jarra]

[/QUOTE]Please also note that Montevina does not replace Penryn, it simply replaces the mobile chipset Crestline which is currently being utilized in the MPB! Also, the highest Penryn (after the T9300 and T9500 get dropped in) you will see in a MPB is the 2.8GHz T9600, which will most likely be a silent drop much like the current 2.6Ghz CPU was last fall. The extreme 3.06GHz chip consumes too much power for a mobile setup like the MPB.

I hope this clears things up![/QUOTE]

That is a shame, I am still going to get a MBP though. Penryn will definitely do!

[ridehard]

got confused about this montevina, and also dont care now.
just want :apple: to release the mbp, ill see the specs compare and BUY.
Otherwise will never buy anything always waiting...

[skemmuni]

Hmmm.... always something better on the way. I'm still going to get a Penryn MBP if one comes out, though.


Me too.....

I can't wait 4 to 8 months for a new new CPU... And if I'll wait 4-8 months.. there will be a new CPU on the way... :rolleyes:

I can't wait getting my verry first Mac ... I just love u :apple:

[ridehard]

I can't wait getting my verry first Mac ... :apple:

word !

[diamond.g]

Hmmm can someone help fill in the blanks for laptops and desktops?

The CPU = Penryn now, next update will be .....
THE Desktop Chipset now = Santa Rosa The next update will be the Montevina.
BUT:
Mobile Apple computers can use Penryn CPU, the next update will be Nehalem.
Mobile Apple computers use Crestline mobile chipset now The next update will be .... Montevina?
Now -> Future
CPU: Penryn -> Nehalem
Chipset: Crestline -> Cantiga

Montevina includes Intel Wireless. It is a platform not a chipset.

Desktops don't really have platforms Current CPU's are called Conroe and the "next" CPU's are called Wolfdale (or Yorkfield depending on whose circle you sit at). Apple uses mobile parts for the iMac and the MP's use Workstation/Server CPU's and chipsets.

[jumpinjoe]

Question to help clear things up at my end. What will be the benefit of waiting for the montevina platform? Also if Nehalem is the next big thing in processors, do we see the full advantage when it is released the beginning of next year? Would we have to wait 6 months for the next platform to be released? If someone could explain what extra we could expect from these upgrades, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe

[diamond.g]

Question to help clear things up at my end. What will be the benefit of waiting for the montevina platform? Also if Nehalem is the next big thing in processors, do we see the full advantage when it is released the beginning of next year? Would we have to wait 6 months for the next platform to be released? If someone could explain what extra we could expect from these upgrades, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe

Cantiga brings faster fsb (1066) and faster RAM (DDR3). The Penryn processors would run faster, but the CPU's are pretty much the same as the ones before. Nehalem is supposed to be a total revision to the mobile line of microprocessors. Aside from better power use and more cache I am not sure what else it brings.

[eastcoastsurfer]

Sorry but I'm not talking about a revision in the sense of something just go released and I can't wait for rev. B to come out. Just speculating. But I think you obviously totally miss the point of that machine. It is what a notebook truly should be. Light. If I need to do something intensive I use a desktop. When and if I need or want a portable that would be what I get. While the MBP is perfect for the power user and the MB offers more features for the price conscious/college user/middle of the road consumer, the MBA is a perfect option for a 2nd machine to a desktop.

The problem is that what you're describing is totally against which way the market has been moving. People are not buying anymore desktops. They want laptops that they can do everything on. The MBA is not a machine that you can replace your desktop with. This is why I think Apple missed the boat with the MBA. It may not require you have another computer, but strongly suggests it.

[Stridder44]

For all you newbs waiting this long for a MBP update. If you have waited this long for a mbp, YOU DON'T NEED ONE. Stop the madness and just buy a damn computer already. All day on this site, "when is the mbp coming" Get a life.


Oh man you're a smart one. You're right we should just buy a MBP now, it's best to toss out the info of an imminent update of the MBP line that could come out as soon as tomorrow. You should be an investor!

You think these posts about people complaining they want new MBP's are annoying? You should try reading the posts made by all these mouth breathing-bottom feeders that just spew out "Duhr buy it now guys its a great buy just get it if you need it *drool*".

[japanime]

Completely off-topic, but I love the fact that these processors are named after places where I grew up (Napa), first worked (Sonoma), and got married (Santa Rosa).

Makes me feel special. :o

[japanime]

Double-post. Sorry.

[lazyrighteye]

MBA is also the perfect machine for the FOOL -- who just paid $1600 and got..NOTHING.

I have an $800 PC laptop that has 4 USBs, DVI, VGA, Both WIRED and WIRELESS Ethernet, and a bigger hard drive. It's also 9x times faster than the MBA. And it's 1" thick.

How you like them Apples? (haa!)

And what OS are you running? :rolleyes:

[cneo]

I agree with alot of what you said... most people are definitely confused.
it's funny, because my friend and i were discussing this digi-times article last night... and we came up with these basic conclusions/predictions/opinions:

1. Penryn processor will be (very?) coming soon - they need to do this to distinguish their pro line and not stay behind on the curve. Getting the Penryn upgrade gives more of a performance boost than the entire montevina overhaul or the cantiga chipset upgrade.

2. Montevina will be released post back-to-school bonanza. Apple has done this before, they like to discount and bundle for back-to-school to get rid of their current inventory. And this release reloads them in preparation for the upcoming holiday season.

I've attached an image of Intel's Roadmap in hopes of making things a bit clear(er) for people. I hope it helps.

http://www.cneo.net/randompics/roadmap.jpg

After skimming through a lot of this thread I can see about three things going on:

1) Many of the Apple zealots and newbies believe that Apple will skip the much needed update to Penryn. NOT HAPPENING. Apple should and better update because the advances that are gained with Penryn are enough for plenty of people not wanting to pay for overpriced hardware.

2) Many of those same people don't understand the difference between the chipset and CPU architecture that Intel produces, NOR the fact that the 3.06 GHz chip won't make it into the 17" and 15" MBP. FACE THE FACTS, Apple won't give us a machine like that, especially if the consumers want a MBA like MBP. If Apple makes the notebook thinner, then they won't be packing any high end hardware, just like the current model. I doubt we will see a quad core MBP or even a 3GHz laptop from Apple until much later in 2009.

3) Many people understand that Apple should update to Penryn, won't release a Montevina MBP until August or even later because that's how Apple does, and that Apple may, by that time, neglect the Penryn MBP and update everything else first. GOOD! I am glad those people understand and realize the truth about may happen in the next few weeks and months.

There will and needs to be a Penryn update and Apple needs to redesign the MBP case and make it able to fit the faster and hotter chips that Intel already has on the market.

[SirOmega]

As long as Montevina + 45nm CPUs show up in the November MacBooks I think I might be buying myself a new one. Time to upgrade from my Core Duo 1.83Ghz MB.

This of course will require that the MBP would get these in September-ish.

[pine1045]

Actually speaking, me too. I could care less about the penryn update. What I can't stand is if Apple redesign the current MBP. If that thing happen, I couldn't forgive myself. Especially if Apple indeed introduces the MT Trackpad in the refreshed MBP.
However, I think the MBP is thin enough already. How much thinner can we expect the MBP get? Won't it feel flaky if the design got thinner? I'm imagining carrying 15" laptop and it's less than 1" thick. I think it'd be a delicate product and must be labeled "fragile" next to the apple logo?

Well I think the thing would come from making the display cover a little thinner. Maybe the MBP is already thinner but my G4 Powerbook has a relatively thick display cover.

[Bye Bye Baby]

Then you'll love it when Nehalem comes out at the end of 2008/beginning of 2009. I've heard its official name will be Core 3 Duo. :D

Will someone please explain what is the link/difference between Montevina and Nehalem please!

[EagerDragon]

Just my opinion:

Given the economic down turn, I expect new MBP this month and new ones around Sept then again in March 2009. If there is going to be a major redesign, it will probably be in early 2009 around March.

This year and next Apple needs more switchers and more users to upgrade so they are going to push new systems out as long as they can give the users a compelling reason to Buy/Upgrade.

If you are waiting for the redesign, you have about a year to wait. There is little wrong with the current MBP design, other than the Alum haas a negative effect on the WIFI signal.

Now this does not mean that they can not sell you a new system with better CPU, faster FSB, LED light, better screen resolution in the mean time but that is not the Major redesign that will likely come early (March) next year.:apple:

[lazyrighteye]

Simply USING the device?! And what pray tell have you been doing with it? Making love to the ethernet port? Is that why people are bashing the MBA?

I thought this was a place where us "elitist snobs" (http://www.tuaw.com/2008/02/17/the-street-mac-owners-are-snobs/) could mingle in harmony- are you trying to cause a splinter group who have found higher planes of interaction with their computer?

I found todays Engadget table enlightening. A kind commenter even translated the Japanese...

1) Platform generation
2) Platform branding
3) Release date
4) Processor family
5) Processor codename
6) Manufacturing process
7) No. of cores
8) L2 Cache size
9) 64-bit support
10) Highest FSB speed
11) Chipset group
12) Highest memory speed supported
13) Graphics core
14) Sound
15) Wireless connection group
16) Wireless connection specification

Hmmm, WiMAX eh?

[fuziwuzi]

As long as Montevina + 45nm CPUs show up in the November MacBooks I think I might be buying myself a new one. Time to upgrade from my Core Duo 1.83Ghz MB.

This of course will require that the MBP would get these in September-ish.

wow a mb with montevina would be hell yummy. it's kinda hard to think how powerful small laptops are getting

[phatcat]

I'm waiting for the Montevina MBA. They run at 17 watts, versus the current 20 watt CPU. 6 hour battery life? Then there's also a 10watt 1.4GB CPU coming out as well. 8+ hour battery life?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/intel-releasing-15-montevina-cpus-in-may/

[Kelson]

Penryn calls for quad core in 2H'08, so yes.


Deleted...

- Kelson

[jbh001]

BTW, Napa, Santa Rosa, and Montevina aren't chipsets either.Fine. They are the set of chips (CPU, northbridge, southbridge, wireless, etc.) that comprise various versions of the Centrino platform. Heaven forbid we call the set of chips that make up the platform a chipset (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipset). :p;)

[fewture]

of course Apple will update MBP's with Penryn. How can some of you be so stupid? Apple is charging premium prices for its laptops, and if every other manufacturer is putting the latest Penryn chips in their top laptops (and not even top) then Apple HAS to do the same.

Anyhow, all these improvements that Intel is doing every 6 months aren't really that amazing. The speed increase is all pretty negligible. No way I would wait for a slightly faster chip in 6 months (nor a platform which doesn't provide that much more)

Now an overhaul to the entire system, thats something I would consider waiting for.

[jbh001]

Will someone please explain what is the link/difference between Montevina and Nehalem please!

Nehalem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_%28microarchitecture%29) & Penryn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_2#Penryn) = CPU
Montevina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montevina#Montevina_platform_.282008.29) = Centrino platform which includes CPU (Nehalem or Penryn), northbridge, southbridge, wireless, etc.

(Sorry, I'll get skewered by some if I call the set of chips that comprise Montevina a chipset (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipset).) :D

Except for the Mac Pro, Apple essentially uses the Santa Rosa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montevina#Santa_Rosa_platform_.282007.29) platform (minus Intel's wireless) for its notebooks and the iMac. If you want to get technical, it uses the Crestline northbridge & southbridge chips.

The Mac mini essentially uses the Napa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montevina#Napa_platform_.282006.29) platform (also minus Intel's wireless), specifically the Calistoga chips.

The Cantiga chips from the Montevina platform is what (most) everyone is really excited about when they talk about Apple using the Montevina platform.

I want to use next year's tax refund to get a Mac that uses Nehalem + Calpella (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montevina#Calpella_platform_.282009.29) chips, because that's when the front side bus officially gets eliminated.

Clear as mud?

[fewture]

Just my opinion:

Given the economic down turn, I expect new MBP this month and new ones around Sept then again in March 2009. If there is going to be a major redesign, it will probably be in early 2009 around March.

This year and next Apple needs more switchers and more users to upgrade so they are going to push new systems out as long as they can give the users a compelling reason to Buy/Upgrade.

If you are waiting for the redesign, you have about a year to wait. There is little wrong with the current MBP design, other than the Alum haas a negative effect on the WIFI signal.

Now this does not mean that they can not sell you a new system with better CPU, faster FSB, LED light, better screen resolution in the mean time but that is not the Major redesign that will likely come early (March) next year.:apple:

actually with Apple bringing in new designs all the time (and with this new aluminium/black/silver theme) I don't see why a new MBP design or slightly revised isn't in the pipelines for the near future term

[diamond.g]

Fine. They are the set of chips (CPU, northbridge, southbridge, wireless, etc.) that comprise various versions of the Centrino platform. Heaven forbid we call the set of chips that make up the platform a chipset (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipset). :p;)

:p You have a point. Really we should be specific when referring to what chips Apple uses. Apple doesn't use Intel Wireless (or LAN AFAIK), or NAND (Robson) so to call the systems by the platform name is disingenuous.

[fuziwuzi]

You're going to see Santa Rosa based Mac mini eventually. Apple is really struggling to differentiate their laptop only based desktops.
yeah, as a current PC user (switching to apple if mbps come out before uni starts) i find it hard with apple, all their computer products are based around laptop cpus, ram and chipsets, except for the mac pro, and that costs thousands, and is basically high end workstation gear.

they really do lack something in the middle ground.

[t0mat0]

1. Penryn processor will be (very?) coming soon
2. Montevina will be released post back-to-school bonanza.
I've attached an image of Intel's Roadmap in hopes of making things a bit clear(er) for people. I hope it helps.

Can we mod this graphic or make one so simple folk like me can get this clear? :)

[jbh001]

Really we should be specific when referring to what chips Apple uses. Apple doesn't use Intel Wireless (or LAN AFAIK), or NAND (Robson) so to call the systems by the platform name is disingenuous.Perhaps, but since Intel rarely trumpets updates to its northbridge and southbridge chips as loudly as (or separately from) its upgrades to its Centrino platform, it's easier to just follow their lead.

[diamond.g]

Can we mod this graphic or make one so simple folk like me can get this clear? :)

Technically you should draw a red line through the platform names as well.

[jbh001]

Can we mod this graphic or make one so simple folk like me can get this clear? :)
Replace that "?" with Calpella (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino#Calpella_platform_.282009.29), and you are set.

[Tattoo]

Reading all this now just gives me a huge headache.

I'm better off NOT knowing all the names of Chip Sets/Processors - It makes everything worse and you never end up buying anything.

Cant we just go back to the G3, G4, G5 - days? ahhhh it was so much easier! Upgrades every 3 years and all we knew was G6 is next!!

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/TATTOO_WOW/intel.png

I'm just going to close my eyes to all this and buy a computer when I need it.

Case Closed.

Otherwise your like an addict looking for the next big high.

No thanks. :cool:

[Tattoo]

Question to help clear things up at my end. What will be the benefit of waiting for the montevina platform? Also if Nehalem is the next big thing in processors, do we see the full advantage when it is released the beginning of next year? Would we have to wait 6 months for the next platform to be released? If someone could explain what extra we could expect from these upgrades, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe

Next big thing:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/TATTOO_WOW/486DX2-50-SX626.gif

[Tattoo]

Well I think the thing would come from making the display cover a little thinner. Maybe the MBP is already thinner but my G4 Powerbook has a relatively thick display cover.


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/TATTOO_WOW/g5funny.jpg

[Toe]

Next big thing:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/TATTOO_WOW/486DX2-50-SX626.gif

I thought it was supposed to be the ix486 Core FX2 Fargo Quad Double-Duo Argon 63xx. (Codename Blablabla.)

[Eidorian]

Reading all this now just gives me a huge headache.

I'm better off NOT knowing all the names of Chip Sets/Processors - It makes everything worse and you never end up buying anything.

Cant we just go back to the G3, G4, G5 - days? ahhhh it was so much easier! Upgrades every 3 years and all we knew was G6 is next!!

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/TATTOO_WOW/intel.png

I'm just going to close my eyes to all this and buy a computer when I need it.

Case Closed.

Otherwise your like an addict looking for the next big high.

No thanks. :cool:If keeping track of just Intel hardware is giving you a headache then this really isn't the thread for you. The same goes for everyone else.

[Toe]

If keeping track of just Intel hardware is giving you a headache then this really isn't the thread for you. The same goes for everyone else.
So this isn't the thread for anyone?

I think that's right.

[Tattoo]

So this isn't the thread for anyone?

I think that's right.


I feel better now after eating something.....

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/TATTOO_WOW/BoxedLunch_Pro.jpg

[Tattoo]

I thought it was supposed to be the ix486 Core FX2 Fargo Quad Double-Duo Argon 63xx. (Codename Blablabla.)

Bro don't make fun "DX2" was bad azz! ;)

[MattInOz]

If I was Apple I would skip Penryn and just wait for the new chips. It makes sense if you are in the education market. June 2008 is right in the prime buying season for incoming college students.

Most of whom won't know their Santa Rosa from their San Jose.
Makes just as much sense to processor bump now. And do a new case design style overhaul in 6 months. Use the back to school sales to clear inventory.

[t0mat0]

Fill in the gaps and revise me :)

[Tattoo]

Current (Future)
Screen inches Processor GHz Chip Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
MBP 15 2.2 (2.5) T7500 (T9300) Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
15 2.4 (2.5) T7700 (T9500) Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
17 2.4 (2.6) T7700 (T9500) Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
17 2.6 (2.?) T7700 (T9???) Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
iMac 20 2.0(2.1) T7300 (T8100) Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
20 2.4 (2.5) T7700 (T8300) Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
24 2.4 (2.5) T7700 (T9300) Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
24 2.8 (2.8) X7900 (X9000) Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
MB 2.0 Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
2.2 Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
MP N/A 2.2 (OctoCore G5) Core2Duo (Penryn) QX9650?
N/A 2.4
N/A 2.6
N/A 2.4
2.6

MBA 13 Custom Core2Duo (MobileOctoG5)



This post made me drunk :eek:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/TATTOO_WOW/MySpace%20Comments/cryingkoreans.jpg

[t0mat0]

This post made me drunk :eek:

Damnit - So the table goes fugly and you have a go at me whilst i'm trying to make it hit less fugly tree branches? :p

You could at least help fill in some blanks ;)

[bigwig]

Why doesn't Apple use Intel's wireless chip? Is it low performance or too power hungry?

[cneo]

Current (Future)
SCREEN GHz CHIP FAMILY Santa Rosa (Montevina June 08) ((Calpella Xmas 08))
inches


Correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think this chart you concocted even makes sense...
Santa Rosa and Montevina are mutually exclusive

Processor: Merom -> Penryn
Platform: Santa Rosa -> Montevina (sometimes people refer to the platform when they are actually talking about the chipset)
Chipset: GM/PM965 -> Cantiga

My understanding is that there is supposed to be a Santa Rosa refresh (with the new 45nm Penryn Processors) SOON (tomorrow?)

The Montevina platform will come with the Cantiga chipset and offer - upgraded wireless technology (wimax), ddr3, etc.

[Eidorian]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think this chart you concocted even makes sense...
Santa Rosa and Montevina are mutually exclusive

Processor: Merom -> Penryn
Platform: Santa Rosa -> Montevina (sometimes people refer to the platform when they are actually talking about the chipset)
Chipset: GM/PM965 -> Cantiga

My understanding is that there is supposed to be a Santa Rosa refresh (with the new 45nm Penryn Processors) SOON (tomorrow?)

The Montevina platform will come with the Cantiga chipset and offer - upgraded wireless technology (wimax), ddr3, etc.You're correct. There is supposed to be a Santa Rosa Refresh (http://news.google.com/news?q=santa+rosa+refresh&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn) that allows the usage of Socket P based Penryn processors.

[kgeier82]

just wanted to add my .02.

any one see that bestbuy is Backordered for 2weeks on all MACBOOKS and MACBOOKPROS?

thats a little strange for such a large electronics store.

[akadmon]

I agree. With the shortages of MBP's, an update is very imminent. I just started working at an Apple Retail store and

Stop it right there, brother! You realize Apple employees aren't even allowed to browse rumor forums, let alone post in them? How many M. Mendozas (age 27) are working for Apple? For your sake I hope the number is at least 2 :D

[Full of Win]

Everyone knows that the Cerietinittog will be better, as it has a Delta type FSB and a new Rear Side bus running at 500 Kellycams! Now, if you want to wait, then in a few months the Denver platform will be released and have native support for SXTR-2, which is different then SXTR-1z, in that SXTR-2 will have double the registrars on the alpha level of logic...and I think we all know what that means....yep, more fulklieks!

This all sounds great - but OS X must have support for SXTR-2, whereas it can only take full advantage of the SXTR-L instruction set stored in the LX of the current CPU. Now, assuming if those fatcats at Apple can get off their duffs, then sure, we could see extended support. Now, if they really want to make up happy, how about adding OS level support for the Deltingnio chipset that will be released in 14.67 months. That would make me do this ->:)

[Hooka]

Oh man you're a smart one. You're right we should just buy a MBP now, it's best to toss out the info of an imminent update of the MBP line that could come out as soon as tomorrow. You should be an investor!

You think these posts about people complaining they want new MBP's are annoying? You should try reading the posts made by all these mouth breathing-bottom feeders that just spew out "Duhr buy it now guys its a great buy just get it if you need it *drool*".

That is not what I am saying. If you have a actual need for a computer and you are not buying it for up to now, five months. You don't need it. What are you going to do? Tell someone that you can't do the work because Apple hasn't released a new MBP for the last five months. Apple has done a wonderful job filling in the gaps for open mouth breathers like yourself. Go out and get a iBook, put windows on it and play COD4. And if you can't wait to sit on an airplane and watch "dodgeball" in HD, then you need to get a life.

I bought my MBP because I do mobile video editing and conversions, things a iBook at the time could not do very well. I started a business and guess what? Six weeks after my MBP was purchased they came out with Core 2 duo chips. But I needed the computer and I bought it. If I didn't then I would of lost out of thousands of dollars of business.

[hohohong]

Simply USING the device?! And what pray tell have you been doing with it? Making love to the ethernet port? Is that why people are bashing the MBA?

I thought this was a place where us "elitist snobs" (http://www.tuaw.com/2008/02/17/the-street-mac-owners-are-snobs/) could mingle in harmony- are you trying to cause a splinter group who have found higher planes of interaction with their computer?

I found todays Engadget table enlightening. A kind commenter even translated the Japanese...

1) Platform generation
2) Platform branding
3) Release date
4) Processor family
5) Processor codename
6) Manufacturing process
7) No. of cores
8) L2 Cache size
9) 64-bit support
10) Highest FSB speed
11) Chipset group
12) Highest memory speed supported
13) Graphics core
14) Sound
15) Wireless connection group
16) Wireless connection specification

That's not jap! It's chinese! :rolleyes:

[jbh001]

. . . and a new Rear Side bus running at 500 Kellycams!That's Kellicams (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Kellicam) buster, and don't forget it! :mad:

[kgeier82]

That is not what I am saying. If you have a actual need for a computer and you are not buying it for up to now, five months. You don't need it. What are you going to do? Tell someone that you can't do the work because Apple hasn't released a new MBP for the last five months. Apple has done a wonderful job filling in the gaps for open mouth breathers like yourself. Go out and get a iBook, put windows on it and play COD4. And if you can't wait to sit on an airplane and watch "dodgeball" in HD, then you need to get a life.

I bought my MBP because I do mobile video editing and conversions, things a iBook at the time could not do very well. I started a business and guess what? Six weeks after my MBP was purchased they came out with Core 2 duo chips. But I needed the computer and I bought it. If I didn't then I would of lost out of thousands of dollars of business.

i agree with your standpoint 110%. that said, most of the people on here are not starting a business and buying a pc/laptop at the same time.

I wouldve done the exact same thing, buy it when you need it.

i just happen to be in the market, so ill wait a week or so. i have something to hold me over.

[Hooka]

i agree with your standpoint 110%. that said, most of the people on here are not starting a business and buying a pc/laptop at the same time.

I wouldve done the exact same thing, buy it when you need it.

i just happen to be in the market, so ill wait a week or so. i have something to hold me over.

Of course if you don't need it for business and you want to have an overpriced laptop then wait. But just for pleasure, go and get an iMac loaded to the max and call it a day. My MBP gets so hot yo can't even keep it on ones lap for to long.

[FJ218700]

Stop it right there, brother! You realize Apple employees aren't even allowed to browse rumor forums, let alone post in them? How many M. Mendozas (age 27) are working for Apple? For your sake I hope the number is at least 2 :D

soon to be </= 1

[mmendoza27]

Stop it right there, brother! You realize Apple employees aren't even allowed to browse rumor forums, let alone post in them? How many M. Mendozas (age 27) are working for Apple? For your sake I hope the number is at least 2 :D

Awww, crap, I'm fu***in screwed!! Sorry, guys gonna have to terminate my membership on the forums... if only I could change my age too, then they would never find me, muahahaha...

Note to self..... never mention working at an Apple store again....

[hose this!]

The problem, though, is that updates are always imminent. It may not be a few weeks every time; and since I haven't seen Steve Jobs up on stage saying "...and they are available for purchase [pause for effect] March [pause again] 18 [smile and nod until the cheering dies down]," it's nothing but speculation. Calculated speculation, but speculation nonetheless.

Intel's roadmap is pretty clear - tick/tock. So we'll be seeing significant processor changes every year (shrink/architecture), and likely new chipsets in between, making a new platform for each target audience about every 6 months.

It's not people like you that bug/amuse me - ready to buy RIGHT NOW but are pretty sure a small bump in capability is right around the corner and feel the wait is justified. It's those who have been holding out on purchasing because "the next big thing is coming" to the MBP since its release 2 friggin' years ago and do nothing but gripe on the forums about how Apple isn't fast enough to get newly announced products to the table in one breath and how big bad Intel is pushing product changes too fast in the next...

It's people like YOU who bug/amuse me to assume that consumers are not justified in demanding the most value for money. If Intel's roadmap is so well defined, then why not should Apple follow with the most contemporary updates as possible? While we'd all like to espouse how far ahead of the curve Apple are in terms of creating a better user experience, they've traditionally fallen behind in terms of technological prowess and there are a good many power users or just plain practical consumers out there who would like to see Apple keep pace with the PC world with regards to performance. And why not? Not everybody out there buys an $1800 laptop to do the kind of basic word processing and web surfing we were doing 10 years ago.

[fuziwuzi]

Now I'm curious of how much of a difference this will make. But I think it's higher ram speeds we need more than anything right now. Quad Core's aren't coming for a while end of this year begging of next year.
tech sites have been stating that a penryn at the same ghz rating at current cpu at the same rating, will be 10% faster. but we are going to see those speed improvement soon (if they update the current mbps with penryn).

i could take a guess at the speed bump at the speed increase of 1066mhz ram over 667mhz, and the 1066 fsb over 800mhz fsb. but i would mostly be wrong, i think most of the speed improvement would come from the ram though. but in the past when FSB/RAM has been improved the speed increase has tended to be incremental, rather than monumental,

[GregorBehr]

but that is not the Major redesign that will likely come early (March) next year.:apple:

Not being argumentative, just curious what your description of a redesign would be? Because you listed several things that in my mind count as a redesign.
Granted many of those changes can be made without changing the shape of the current case... is what what you meant as a redesign?

[fuziwuzi]

Not being argumentative, just curious what your description of a redesign would be? Because you listed several things that in my mind count as a redesign.
Granted many of those changes can be made without changing the shape of the current case... is what what you meant as a redesign?

i think the common use of major redesign includes the case and design of the product. while any changes to the internals when the case stays the same would be considered an update

[GregorBehr]

Stop it right there, brother! You realize Apple employees aren't even allowed to browse rumor forums, let alone post in them? How many M. Mendozas (age 27) are working for Apple? For your sake I hope the number is at least 2 :D

LOL, I though to myself, if he starts training at his new job on Friday (or was it Thursday) as he mentioned, then I guess he hadn't signed the "Hear No Apple, See No Apple, SPEAK NO APPLE, least thy get thy ass fired" paperwork yet.

:p

[jasonh1234]

Next big thing:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/TATTOO_WOW/486DX2-50-SX626.gif

Ha! That was my first REAL computer! Ah the good 'ol days when that chip could play the highest end game in the world... Doom 1

[diamond.g]

tech sites have been stating that a penryn at the same ghz rating at current cpu at the same rating, will be 10% faster. but we are going to see those speed improvement soon (if they update the current mbps with penryn).

i could take a guess at the speed bump at the speed increase of 1066mhz ram over 667mhz, and the 1066 fsb over 800mhz fsb. but i would mostly be wrong, i think most of the speed improvement would come from the ram though. but in the past when FSB/RAM has been improved the speed increase has tended to be incremental, rather than monumental,

From my experience, the CPU makers usually "slow down" the CPU when increasing the FSB (by way of the multiplier). The CPU speeds should stay the same, but overall you will see a speed increase due to the higher bus and memory bandwidth. The only downside is they aren't going to be using DDR2 memory, and DDR3 memory is more expensive, plus it doesn't look like there is going to be a DDR2 version of Cantiga.

[EagerDragon]

Not being argumentative, just curious what your description of a redesign would be? Because you listed several things that in my mind count as a redesign.
Granted many of those changes can be made without changing the shape of the current case... is what what you meant as a redesign?

In my crazy definition, it means a new or significant change to the case, placements of components in the cases (motherboard changes, 2nd battery, access to disk drive), and or more/less ports. In other words you can tell is something new from 5 to 15 feet away.

Example a black metal casing would be something that you can tell at that distance but by itself, it is a minor redesign, mainly cosmetic.

By major redesign I do not mean one change like a new keyboard or case color, I mean several items (3+) that change.

Did not take it as argumentative, no issue with explaining what I mean.

A lot of times the case is the tell tale sign as a smaller or larger motherboard is then used, with several of the chips moved around and some modification of the airflow and the addition to access bays to reach components that previously were not reacheable without major surgery. In the process you may lose or gain ports like for example firewire.

actually with Apple bringing in new designs all the time (and with this new aluminium/black/silver theme) I don't see why a new MBP design or slightly revised isn't in the pipelines for the near future term

Yes apple will do minor cosmetic changes for the short term. As I stated, Apple needs to contiinue to grow during the down turn, so it does need to attract more clients and will IMHO do so by doing bumps and some cosmetic changes + LED which we all know is a sure thing. But IMHO will not go after a Major Redesign until 2009 when new chipsets will bring more significant changes where chip position and airflows will be more of an issue.

[AidenShaw]

isn't wwdc in june this year ????

Yes, 8-13 June at Moscone West (http://www.moscone.com/site/do/event/view?nav.type=0&nav.filter=0806&nav.base=0802&id=281).

[EagerDragon]

Yes, 8-13 June at Moscone West (http://www.moscone.com/site/do/event/view?nav.type=0&nav.filter=0806&nav.base=0802&id=281).
11 Sept 2001 "cannot be the day liberty perished."
- 11th Circuit Court of Appeals


Correct, It was the day our right to privacy perished.

[GT500Shlby]

I think they will release something new soon. Think of it this way.
Apple uses us.
They use the rumor sites, blogs and forums. Just the sheer volume of rumors and speculation alone will drive Apple to release something. I can almost guarantee they read and have meetings on all the rumors floating about. We, the consumer are voicing our opinions on what we want. They read that and respond with a product.

Like "accidentally" releasing the "MacBookPro4,1" - they know we are watching. They are not naive. They are fueling the fire - albeit a little too much because they inevitably fail us a little in the end.

For instance, I already have a 17" top-of-the-line MBP and it works just fine for what I use it for. However, being a gadget person I want something newer. I bought my MBP just before Christmas 2006. So I have had that laptop for a little more than a year. Conceivably I could wait until the end of 2008 to purchase a new MBP.

What would make me purchase a new one sooner would be:
LED Back-lit Glossy 1920x1200 17" Widescreen
Multi-Touch track pad
Penryn T9300 - T9500 C2D

I think that is a highly optimistic fortune, truth be told. We may just see the regular cold-cathode WUXGA and a Penryn now with the other goodies coming later. Which, then I would just wait until the end of 2008 before I drop $4,000 on a machine.

[andrewdewey]

In light of both the Montevina and Blu-Ray news of late, wouldn't the configuration that we all would include:

Montevina
Blu-Ray
17" display
1920x1080 full-HD Res

I think this would be a category killer.

If I am in the $3k neighborhood, I can wait 6 months, as painful as it may be.

[AidenShaw]

In light of both the Montevina and Blu-Ray news of late, wouldn't the configuration that we all would include:

Montevina
Blu-Ray
17" display
1920x1080 full-HD Res

I think this would be a category killer.

If I am in the $3k neighborhood, I can wait 6 months, as painful as it may be.


Or, did you mean BD - "Blu-ray Disk".

But, you are right that it's about time that Apple put BDs into MACs.

[Digital Skunk]

In light of both the Montevina and Blu-Ray news of late, wouldn't the configuration that we all would include:

Montevina
Blu-Ray
17" display
1920x1080 full-HD Res

I think this would be a category killer.

If I am in the $3k neighborhood, I can wait 6 months, as painful as it may be.

You forgot:

Dual 2.8GHz
built in 3G
Dual HDDs
500GB BTO
three FW ports (400 or 800)
redesigned case
larger trackpad with multi-touch

I think this would be the machine that I can truly call a PRO machine.

[Full of Win]

You forgot:

Dual 2.8GHz
built in 3G
Dual HDDs
500GB BTO
three FW ports (400 or 800)
redesigned case
larger trackpad with multi-touch

I think this would be the machine that I can truly call a PRO machine.

Dual 2.8GHz: Why not just a Quadcore?

Built in 3G: Too many standards out there to make it an option for Apple's way of doing things.

Dual HDDs: The case is cramped enough as is.

500GB BTO: Sure

Three FW ports (400 or 800): How about USB 3.0 or eSATA?

Redesigned case: The current one is stale

Larger trackpad with multi-touch: Sure

[AidenShaw]

Built in 3G: Too many standards out there to make it an option for Apple's way of doing things.

Is Apple's way "ignoring the wishes and needs of its customers"? Sometimes it seems so.


Dual HDDs: The case is cramped enough as is.

500GB BTO: Sure

Hitachi and ASUS Collaborate to Deliver the World’s First One Terabyte Notebook PC (http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/site/en/template.MAXIMIZE/menuitem.368c8bfe833dee8056fb11f0aac4f0a0/?javax.portlet.tpst=74ef8e8d695bcd876ccf7be1cf4362b4_ws_MX&javax.portlet.prp_74ef8e8d695bcd876ccf7be1cf4362b4_viewID=content&javax.portlet.prp_74ef8e8d695bcd876ccf7be1cf4362b4_docName=20080103_asu_notebook.html&javax.portlet.prp_74ef8e8d695bcd876ccf7be1cf4362b4_folderPath=%2Fhgst%2Faboutus%2Fpress%2Finternal_n ews%2F&beanID=804390503&viewID=content&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=token&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=token)

pwned


Three FW ports (400 or 800): How about USB 3.0 or eSATA?

eSATA 3.0 Gbps definitely. One port with an Apple-styled 5-way eSATA port multiplier (http://www.sataport.com/) available as an accessory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_3.0

The USB 3.0 specification is planned to be released in the first half of 2008, commercial products are expected to arrive in 2009 or 2010.

I'd guess that USB 3.0 could wait for the first major revision.


In that case, why not FireWire 3200? As fast as eSATA, blows away USB 3.0.

Come back and ask that question again once 1394b S3200 is ratified and starts shipping. eSATA 3.0 Gbps is here now.


Redesigned case: The current one is stale

I think that D.Skunk's point would be for Apple to address people who depend on portable computers for their jobs (that's what "Pro" used to mean before Apple changed its meaning to "shiny"). This means *adding* a portable workstation to the line - a thicker, heavier MacBook with more power, ports and storage (and cooling). With Apple's way of naming, this would probably be the MBPE - the MacBook Pro Extreme.

But yes, the TiBook style is old and stale. The MBP needs an update too.

[bigwig]

Three FW ports (400 or 800): How about USB 3.0 or eSATA?

In that case, why not FireWire 3200? As fast as eSATA, blows away USB 3.0.

[mmendoza27]

All this talk about USB 3.0, eSATA, FW3200, etc. is getting me all excited!!

Which is why I'm going to wait until 2009 to buy my next laptop. Like GT500Shlby, I bought my MBP in November 2006 (Napa Core2Duo with Merom processor) and I missed out on small things like upgradeable to 4GB of RAM, new graphics card and the oh so sweet 1920x1200 display!

However, before I drop $3,000 on my next MBP, the longer I wait the better. In 2009, Nehalem will be the processor, quad-core with up to 4 GB of RAM, better graphics card, LED 1920x1200 display, and blu-ray 4x burner. That would be sweet!! I can't wait until next year!!

Then I'll be able to use my Apple Employee discount!!! ....... which I'm not supposed to talk about here....... nevermind.... you never heard that.

[diamond.g]

In that case, why not FireWire 3200? As fast as eSATA, blows away USB 3.0.

I would think S3200 would be a waste of time. Why? Cause S1600 has been around for a while and I haven't seen any products that use it. Why would I expect S3200 to be in use?

[AidenShaw]

All this talk about USB 3.0, eSATA, FW3200, etc. is getting me all excited!!

Which is why I'm going to wait until 2009 to buy my next laptop.


No need to wait for eSATA. Laptops are already using it:

http://www.maxitmag.com/hardware-reviews/laptops/asus-z84j-laptop-debuting-at-ces.html

One of Asus' laptops headed for Las Vegas (CES is being held there) has already made an appearance at Notebook Review.

The Z84Jp ... features 4 USB 2.0 ports and an eSATA port. This is the first time we have seen a laptop with an eSATA port though we expect a lot more of them to have it, especially the ones that are going to be showcased at CES. The Z84Jp will be released mid January.

There are also ExpressCard eSATA and eSATA RAID controllers available, and many external disks with eSATA (from the simple Seagate Freeagent Pro (http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/external/freeagent_pro_data_movers/) with USB 2.0 + eSATA) to small and midsize arrays.

USB 3.0 will be here in 2009/2010, but if you hold your breath waiting for 1394b S3200 you might turn this color:
http://www.apple-history.com/images/models/blueg3.gif

[Mister9]

It's people like YOU who bug/amuse me to assume that consumers are not justified in demanding the most value for money. If Intel's roadmap is so well defined, then why not should Apple follow with the most contemporary updates as possible? While we'd all like to espouse how far ahead of the curve Apple are in terms of creating a better user experience, they've traditionally fallen behind in terms of technological prowess and there are a good many power users or just plain practical consumers out there who would like to see Apple keep pace with the PC world with regards to performance. And why not? Not everybody out there buys an $1800 laptop to do the kind of basic word processing and web surfing we were doing 10 years ago.

yup- its simply capitalism my friends. I've been in the "Wait for new Macbook Pro's" forum, the one where the vote spells Montevina as Monteniva.... I can't handle it in there. There are so many morons. Oh yeah and someone said earlier that "its still going to be the same Penryn" - no, no its not... It will be a predecessor that can accept the full 1066 FBS. This current penryn was a premature release on intel's part to help flush out the old, obsolete technologies known as the Santa Rose and many suckers have made their plans reality. Its funny how the MBP (early 2008) performed worse on nearly every bench mark and below on overall performance than the MBP 2007 and yet there are morons who go out and buy it anyways :eek:... sillyness...

[diamond.g]

This current penryn was a premature release on intel's part to help flush out the old, obsolete technologies known as the Santa Rose and many suckers have made their plans reality.

:eek: Whaaa? You do know that Penryn is a CPU and Santa Rosa isn't right?

[Mister9]

:eek: Whaaa? You do know that Penryn is a CPU and Santa Rosa isn't right?

Yes?? haha- what the hell? I'm not sure where your question is going? Are you saying that somehow the SR platform doesn't use CPU's? Well I just read a few of your posts and you obviously know what you're talking about- this penryn processor is backwards compatible with SR to accept the 800 MHz FBS. This CPU was used to get buyers to buy now due to the overstock of SR platforms which will soon be obsolete. Remember how Intel announced there would be a limited supply? This wasn't because of production woes, this was a strategic plan based on current SR inventories to get suckers to think "Oh I'd better get one now." The next Penryn will accept the full 1066 that the Montevina platform and Cantiga chipset will offer. That's all I am saying.

[diamond.g]

Yes?? haha- what the hell? I'm not sure where your question is going? Are you saying that somehow the SR platform doesn't use CPU's? Rephrase your question please- or go to the "Waiting for New Macbook Pro" forum... you'd fit right in.

Sure it does, Merom and Penryn. I was just trying to understand how the Santa Rosa Platform is obsolete?

As far as Montevina using the successor to the existing Penryn, sure it will. The current Penryn CPU's can probably run at the 1066 fsb quite easily. More over I am pretty sure the existing chips can run at 1600 fsb on air with no overvolting.

And for the umpteenth time Apple doesn't use Intel's platforms. They are missing the wireless, robson cache, and lan. Apple is currently using the Crestline chipset (northbridge and southbridge) and the Penryn CPU's.

[jjahshik32]

Yes?? haha- what the hell? I'm not sure where your question is going? Are you saying that somehow the SR platform doesn't use CPU's? Well I just read a few of your posts and you obviously know what you're talking about- this penryn processor is backwards compatible with SR to accept the 800 MHz FBS. This CPU was used to get buyers to buy now due to the overstock of SR platforms which will soon be obsolete. Remember how Intel announced there would be a limited supply? This wasn't because of production woes, this was a strategic plan based on current SR inventories to get suckers to think "Oh I'd better get one now." The next Penryn will accept the full 1066 that the Montevina platform and Cantiga chipset will offer. That's all I am saying.

If you really look at the big picture it wouldnt matter if you bought today's penryn or montevina since they all will use the same ram, unless montevina changes to a 1066mhz ram which I doubt.

Lol, from your sig I see that your waiting for the Nehalem. How long have you been waiting to buy a mbp? I think its silly for people to wait 6-12 months to buy a laptop because all the time you wait for that spec to show up, you could be enjoying the laptop right now and once its released then something much better will show up the next 6-12 so to me its a year wasted of waiting.

But I too am a spec whore and do wait until the next update if I'm in the market for a new laptop and around 3 months for the update to arrive.

I bought my SR 2.4ghz mbp just about 5 months ago and was surprised to see the penryn update. But to me it wasnt too big a jump to upgrade, the only thing I want is the new multitouch thats about it.

[diamond.g]

If you really look at the big picture it wouldnt matter if you bought today's penryn or montevina since they all will use the same ram, unless montevina changes to a 1066mhz ram which I doubt.


Cantiga, which is what Apple would use, is specced to support up to 1066 DDR3 RAM. I hope they do cause Nehalem, is dropping DDR2 support.

[Mister9]

I bought my SR 2.4ghz mbp just about 5 months ago and was surprised to see the penryn update. But to me it wasnt too big a jump to upgrade, the only thing I want is the new multitouch thats about it.

Going from MBP 2007 to MBP (early 2008) is actually a downgrade; at least according to the performance tests.

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/02/newmbp-benchmarks.jpg

[Toe]

Going from MBP 2007 to MBP (early 2008) is actually a downgrade; at least according to the performance tests.

If I understand correctly, the newer 2.4 model has less L2 cache than the older 2.4. And I think the earlier models cost a lot more for comparable speeds.

[Mister9]

Cantiga, which is what Apple would use, is specced to support up to 1066 DDR3 RAM. I hope they do cause Nehalem, is dropping DDR2 support.

hey diamond, do you suspect montevina will have soldered processors?

[diamond.g]

hey diamond, do you suspect montevina will have soldered processors?

I'd hope not. Does Apple normally solder the CPU's to the mobo's? Although it won't make too much of a difference. Nehalem will be on a different package, so CPU upgradability of Cantiga is probably a moot point.

After doing some snooping, it may be possible for Cantiga to support Nehalem. Or should I say a variant of Cantiga could support Nehalem. Of course The real question is will Intel go that route, or will they wait till Q2 to actually update the mobile line.

[Mister9]

I'd hope not. Does Apple normally solder the CPU's to the mobo's? Although it won't make too much of a difference. Nehalem will be on a different package, so CPU upgradability of Cantiga is probably a moot point.

After doing some snooping, it may be possible for Cantiga to support Nehalem. Or should I say a variant of Cantiga could support Nehalem. Of course The real question is will Intel go that route, or will they wait till Q2 to actually update the mobile line.

The MBP has a soldered CPU...at least mine does. It'd be nice, that way I won't have to wait as long :p

Okay, I've been doing some digging... and I'm more confused than when I started, but I guess the chip known as 'Nehalem' is going to be significantly larger and will be released in 4th Q of 2008, but hardware for it will be early 2009... so we're looking at a year from now-ish. http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5741&Itemid=35

[diamond.g]

The MBP has a soldered CPU...at least mine does. It'd be nice, that way I won't have to wait as long :p

Okay, I've been doing some digging... and I'm more confused than when I started, but I guess the chip known as 'Nehalem' is going to be significantly larger and will be released in 4th Q of 2008, but hardware for it will be early 2009... so we're looking at a year from now-ish. http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5741&Itemid=35

Yeah the package is LGA11(something). Although the die is supposed to be smaller than the current one.

[Mister9]

Everything I see says the 'Nehalem' to be released at the end of this year will be for the desktop; for laptops it will be sometime around now next year; then we'll be in the same boat trying to decide whether to get the Montevina version or wait until summer 2009. I'm thinking I will go through with this Montevina update because the Nehalem will be completely 'new' for Intel and with 'new' comes flaws and revisions just like Pentium, Pentium II, Pentium III, etc... So, for me (at least now), I'll get the MBP (mid-2008) and then perhaps the Nehalem II or Sandybridge -or whatever kids these days are calling it- in 2011. Wow, talk about planning ahead...

[diamond.g]

Everything I see says the 'Nehalem' to be released at the end of this year will be for the desktop; for laptops it will be sometime around now next year; then we'll be in the same boat trying to decide whether to get the Montevina version or wait until summer 2009. I'm thinking I will go through with this Montevina update because the Nehalem will be completely 'new' for Intel and with 'new' comes flaws and revisions just like Pentium, Pentium II, Pentium III, etc... So, for me (at least now), I'll get the MBP (mid-2008) and then perhaps the Nehalem II or Sandybridge -or whatever kids these days are calling it- in 2011. Wow, talk about planning ahead...

All CPU's have some errata. It is just some errata is worse than others. Upgrade to Cantiga (cause Apple doesn't use Intel platform) and by the same time next year you can make the move to Nehalem. Hopefully Apple will use DDR3 with Cantiga and not punk out and use DDR2.

[Mister9]

All CPU's have some errata. It is just some errata is worse than others. Upgrade to Cantiga (cause Apple doesn't use Intel platform) and by the same time next year you can make the move to Nehalem. Hopefully Apple will use DDR3 with Cantiga and not punk out and use DDR2.

You keep saying that? What do you mean by 'platform'?? If you mean Santa Rosa- or even 'Core' or 'Montevina' you're confused; these are all very much Intel technologies. As is Cantiga, which will be refreshed in 1 year- just like everything else intel does- to Calpella, which is the first 'chipset' that will optimize the 'Nehalem' CPU by discarding the Northbridge FSB and fusing the memory controller on the CPU. I really want to wait that long but not sure I'll make it... we'll see.

[diamond.g]

You keep saying that? What do you mean by 'platform'?? If you mean Santa Rosa- or even 'Core' or 'Montevina' you're confused; these are all very much Intel technologies. As is Cantiga, which will be refreshed in 1 year- just like everything else intel does- to Calpella, which is the first 'chipset' that will optimize the 'Nehalem' CPU by discarding the Northbridge FSB and fusing the memory controller on the CPU. I really want to wait that long but not sure I'll make it... we'll see.

Nope not confused. Most Mac people are confused as to what the difference is.

When referencing Intels Platforms you say: Santa Rosa, Montevina, Capella. What that (platform) means is Intel CPU, Intel Chipset (north bridge and south bridge), Intel Wireless, Intel LAN, and (optionally) Intel Robson Cache.
Apple only uses the first 2.

This means that Apple doesn't use Intel Platforms. Apple use components from the platform but not the platform itself. It is like saying the Audi S4 uses the R8 platform, it doesn't; it may share some parts but that is about it.


Now when dealing with chipsets you can then go by things like Calistoga (past), Crestline (current) or Cantiga (future). The CPU's are Merom (past) Penryn (current), or Nehalem (future). That is what Apple uses. Nothing else Apple uses comes from Intel.

[Norris3eb]

Hmmm.... always something better on the way. I'm still going to get a Penryn MBP if one comes out, though.

Echo. Once I finally came to the realization that something better would come out, I jumped off the deep end, and ordered one of the new Penryn MBP's.

I'm excited to receive it, as it should be here any day.

[Norris3eb]

Going from MBP 2007 to MBP (early 2008) is actually a downgrade; at least according to the performance tests.

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/02/newmbp-benchmarks.jpg

It isn't a downgrade. The highest performing number on that graph is the 2.6Ghz chip, and as it should be.

[diamond.g]

It isn't a downgrade. The highest performing number on that graph is the 2.6Ghz chip, and as it should be.

That isn't the new 2.6 chip, it is the old one.

[Digital Skunk]

Going from MBP 2007 to MBP (early 2008) is actually a downgrade; at least according to the performance tests.

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/02/newmbp-benchmarks.jpg

That isn't the new 2.6 chip, it is the old one.

While it’s certainly interesting to compare new models to the most recent releases to gauge the progression of Apple’s offerings, most people who bought a new MacBook Pro just last year are probably not looking to upgrade. Rather, it’s owners of even older laptops who have a stake in seeing just how much performance has improved with this latest release.

To provide a point of comparison, we also ran Speedmark tests on a 2GHz MacBook Pro Core Duo, a two-year-old machine that was among the first to ship with an Intel-built processor. The new 15-inch, 2.5GHz MacBook Pro scored around a 50-percent improvement over that older laptop in both Speedmark 5 and our Compressor tests. We also found the newer model to be 36 percent faster than the 2GHz MacBook Pro in both our Photoshop suite and Cinema 4D tests.

Why would anyone go from last years model to the current one.

And it's not a downgrade even from the last model as per MacWorld's performance tests. (www.macworld.com)

Also:

The new entry-level 2.4Ghz model bested the last entry-level system—a 2.2GHz MacBook Pro—by 10 percent in our Speedmark tests. In certain tests, like Photoshop, the improvement was even more dramatic, with the new 2.4GHz model finishing our Photoshop suite 23 percent faster than the older 2.2GHz system.

Even with less L2 cache, the new low-end MacBook Pro was able to compete head-to-head with last falls’s more expensive build-to-order MacBook Pro, posting a Speedmark score just one point less than the older system powered by as 2.6GHz Core 2 Duo chip.

The new 15-inch 2.5GHz MacBook Pro was quite a bit faster across the board than that build-to-order 2.6GHz system—more than 8 percent faster, in fact, in Speedmark, and 23 percent faster in Photoshop. Doubling the video memory also helped the new 2.5GHz MacBook Pro best the older build-to-order machine in our Unreal Tournament test by a whopping 34 percent.

And: (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3195&p=3)

[Norris3eb]

That isn't the new 2.6 chip, it is the old one.

Correct -- but you're missing the point.

It may be the old 2.6 chip, but a 2007 Ferrari is still faster than a 2008 Toyota..right?

The graph isn't valid because it puts a 2.6 chip against a 2.5 chip -- great for comparison purposes, but the person that originally posted it said that the new 2.5 chips were a downgrade. They're not.


The new chips are more efficient - they weren't meant to be faster than the 2.6 chips. That's why they're 2.5. . .

[macgroovy]

Why would anyone go from last years model to the current one.

And it's not a downgrade even from the last model as per MacWorld's performance tests. (www.macworld.com)

Also:



And: (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3195&p=3)

The Macworld benchmarks are a bit surprising I think - the tests show that the new 2.4Ghz machine is slower than the old 2.2Ghz with regards to the framerate of the Unreal Tournament game. This is despite the new model having a graphics card that is twice the capacity!

I would have liked Macworld to have included the old 2.4Ghz model in the testing mix too.

[TimeWaster101]

Blast this is a hard decision for me:

A. I could get the current MBP in a month by my birthday and have it to use ALL summer! I still love the current design.

B. Wait for the next model. What if I don't like the new design. But maybe it'll be better looking? But I don't really want an air styled design. I like the curved rectangle look of the MBPs and MBs. However, regardless of how amazing the new design may look, what about all the issues there could be. The last thing I want to do is be fixing my computer all the time in college.

I really don't think I personally will notice a performance update with Montevina and I don't think the specs will change much. People keep saying it will be thinner, but here's why I disagree:

1. Mac laptops already have heating issues. Make the thing any smaller and it'll overheat (BAD!).
2. The nvidia 8600M is about the best that can fit and the 8800M is larger and creates more heat. Apple needs to future proof itself. If they get too ahead of themselves and make every thing super thin, there will be no room for extra features. Its better to have more space for extra features, than make an already very thin laptop thinner. Honestly, anyone who thinks 1" is too thick needs to take a shopping trip through the PC isle and compare.
3. if they make it thinner, it may resemble the Air's style (all curvy and such). While the air looks amazing, on a larger laptop, all the weird curves make not look right and may make the computer look too complicated and I associate Apple's design with simple. Simple usually is better. What is it I hate about the look of every PC laptop? All the stuff. Too many designs, to busy, and too clunky. I love that when you close a MB or MBP the whole thing is symetric and smooth. Also I'd rather have a solid laptop than one that resembles a wedge from the side (slopes from 1" to .5" or something)

But its a hard decision. I don't want to buy now then see the new one and wish I'd waited. Yet if the new is nothing special, I'll wish I'd bought already.

[Digital Skunk]

I don't think the MBP is going to get any more thinner. It would be nice, but I don't Apple can continue to deal with the hardware limitations of such a thin design. Even now Apple can't stuff as much hardware and features in the MBP as comparable PC models.

I did want a new design but the current Penryn MBPs are perfect for my needs.

[macgroovy]

But its a hard decision. I don't want to buy now then see the new one and wish I'd waited. Yet if the new is nothing special, I'll wish I'd bought already.

Mate, I'd just bite the bullet and get the latest model. After a release is always going to be the best time to buy (for both new and old models!)

Before this latest update many people were expecting a new case design, new graphics card, blu-ray etc, which didn't happen. There is nothing to suggest the the next upgrade will be revolutionary rather than evolutionary, and it may not come for another 6-8 months!

Also, apparently the heating issues have been addressed in the current models.

[TimeWaster101]

Mate, I'd just bite the bullet and get the latest model. After a release is always going to be the best time to buy (for both new and old models!)

Before this latest update many people were expecting a new case design, new graphics card, blu-ray etc, which didn't happen. There is nothing to suggest the the next upgrade will be revolutionary rather than evolutionary, and it may not come for another 6-8 months!

Also, apparently the heating issues have been addressed in the current models.

Thanks so much for you and skunk's input. Still deciding...:(

[Norris3eb]

Thanks so much for you and skunk's input. Still deciding...:(

You could wait until the next revision; but what are you going to do in the meantime?

Just buy one now. If you want to upgrade later, just sell this one on eBay. They retain their value if you take care of them.

[Norris3eb]

Can anyone who's already received their new Penryn machines tell me if:

A - The estimated shipping times on apple.com are reliable, and

B - If it says "7-10 Days Ship", does this include shipping time to my door, or time to build the computer before it ships?

I've ordered my MBP, as I said I would. It's taking longer than I thought it would, though.

[Digital Skunk]

Can anyone who's already received their new Penryn machines tell me if:

A - The estimated shipping times on apple.com are reliable, and

B - If it says "7-10 Days Ship", does this include shipping time to my door, or time to build the computer before it ships?

I've ordered my MBP, as I said I would. It's taking longer than I thought it would, though.

The SHIPPING TIME is always how long it with ship to your local deliverer. Or how long Apple takes to get it over to your neck of the woods. Delivery time is dependent upon the UPS or whatever company they use to deliver it to your home.

[TimeWaster101]

You could wait until the next revision; but what are you going to do in the meantime?

Just buy one now. If you want to upgrade later, just sell this one on eBay. They retain their value if you take care of them.

Wondering...If I bought one now, would it still be worth $1700 by next summer (summer 2009), or would the price drop much less?

[diamond.g]

Wondering...If I bought one now, would it still be worth $1700 by next summer (summer 2009), or would the price drop much less?

If you have AppleCare and upgraded the RAM you should be able to get around 1700 for it.

[TimeWaster101]

If you have AppleCare and upgraded the RAM you should be able to get around 1700 for it.

So i should probably wait then...bummer.. I'm SO IMPATIENT!!!! AHHHH!!!!!:D

[Norris3eb]

So i should probably wait then...bummer.. I'm SO IMPATIENT!!!! AHHHH!!!!!:D

Nah. Don't wait. Just do what I did. Buy whatever Mac you are comfortable with, get the cheapest RAM option, then go to a computer store, and buy 4 Gig of RAM. Mine cost $74. Much better than spending $400 extra. Increases your resale value, too.

[Digital Skunk]

To Timewaister:

If you do buy a machine now and have AppleCare and maxed out RAM you may be able to get close to what you paid upfront for it. But remember that Apple is also selling refurbished models of the same thing without RAM and AppleCare for a little bit less.

Not that you shouldn't try asking for $1700, just that a lot of people, especially those that are in the know, probably won't want to pay that much. You might end up getting $1400 --> $1500 for it, which still isn't bad.

[Norris3eb]

Nah. Don't wait. Just do what I did. Buy whatever Mac you are comfortable with, get the cheapest RAM option, then go to a computer store, and buy 4 Gig of RAM. Mine cost $74. Much better than spending $400 extra. Increases your resale value, too.


To give you guys an update on what [another] horrible experience I've had with Guitar Center in Plano (yes, there've been multiple bad experiences, but I always get a good deal, so I continue to do business with them)

I ordered my MBP17 on Friday, Feb. 29th.

I was told today that they wouldn't have it in their hands until...

March 17th.

Big letdown. Thanks to Guitar Center for helping make my Spring Semester a great one. ****ERS!

[TimeWaster101]

But what if I bought one now and sold this summer (2008)? Would I get $1700 then? Sorry for bugging you guys.

[Digital Skunk]

But what if I bought one now and sold this summer (2008)? Would I get $1700 then? Sorry for bugging you guys.

If you bought this summer for $2000 with AppleCare and 2GB of RAM your machine would be worth about $2450 or so... $350 for AppleCare and $100 for the 4GB of RAM.

Even if you get that on a student discount, don't tell no body. ;)

Now.... by summer (in 6 months or so) that machine may be worth about .... hmm ... about $2000. Take $200 off the machine, another $100 off the price of AppleCare, and the RAM wouldn't really hold much value since it's pretty cheap.

You can get around $1800 for sure... the main thing though is how much Apple will lower the price of the low end Penryn by that time.

[jjahshik32]

Nope not confused. Most Mac people are confused as to what the difference is.

When referencing Intels Platforms you say: Santa Rosa, Montevina, Capella. What that (platform) means is Intel CPU, Intel Chipset (north bridge and south bridge), Intel Wireless, Intel LAN, and (optionally) Intel Robson Cache.
Apple only uses the first 2.

This means that Apple doesn't use Intel Platforms. Apple use components from the platform but not the platform itself. It is like saying the Audi S4 uses the R8 platform, it doesn't; it may share some parts but that is about it.


Now when dealing with chipsets you can then go by things like Calistoga (past), Crestline (current) or Cantiga (future). The CPU's are Merom (past) Penryn (current), or Nehalem (future). That is what Apple uses. Nothing else Apple uses comes from Intel.

Thanks for clearing that up, I was rather annoyed by the confusion from some people.

[jjahshik32]

But what if I bought one now and sold this summer (2008)? Would I get $1700 then? Sorry for bugging you guys.

This can happen very easily.. just 6 months ago the SR mbp was bought at $2499 and now on ebay that same 2.4Ghz SR mbp with 256vram could be bought as low as $1500-$1600 or even at macmall as brand new could be bought for $1799:eek:

So if you bought now with the current penryn's (like I have), it would be wise to just wait until Nehalem to upgrade.