Castro Retires as President of Cuba

[cycocelica]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7252109.stm

Cuba's ailing leader, Fidel Castro has announced he will not return to the presidency in a letter published by official Communist Party paper, Granma.

Mr Castro handed over power temporarily to his brother, Raul, in July 2006 when he underwent intestinal surgery, and has not been seen in public since.

[arkitect]

I wonder how long before the McDonalds Drive-Thru hits Havana?

Pobre Cuba. Tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de los Estados Unidos

[RedTomato]

End of an era.

The first, and the last, communist president in the western hemisphere.

My children will be saying 'daddy, what was it like to live when communism was still around?'

[pachyderm]

amazing.

what will the next government be? a puppet?

can freedom be far behind?

[RedTomato]

amazing.

what will the next government be? a puppet?

can freedom be far behind?

Agree, will be interesting to see who comes after Bush.

[martin1000]

Agree, will be interesting to see who comes after Bush.

LOL. Thanks for the laugh!!!

[Ugg]

Well, I seriously doubt there will be any Chavez-like histrionics. Raul has pretty firm control of the government and dissent is still not encouraged. It'll probably be a good five years before there's any substantial change.

[FoxyKaye]

Obviously Castro has been in failing health for some time, but still a hand nicely played by him: Most of U.S. succession intervention policy for Cuba has been predicated on his death, not turning power over to Raul while he was still alive. And of course, we've been saying for years, "the embargo will end when Castro is no longer president," and of course the first thing announced from the U.S. government was that the embargo is still standing. So, again we look like idiots on the international arena.

[absolut_mac]

So, again we look like idiots on the international arena.

The carrot always works better than the stick!!!

Okay, a little simplistic, but it really is time for a change in tactics.

I really hope that the US reconciles with Cuba soon - and I have a good feeling that will happen with our next president, whether it's McCain, Obama or Clinton. The Cubans deserve better than what Castro and the US have given them these past few decades.

And on a more personal level, I'd really love to scuba dive there in this life time ;)

[pachyderm]

Agree, will be interesting to see who comes after Bush.

lol...

regime change in cuba?

[NEiMac]

Personally I hate the fact we are so friendly with allot of these communist countries. We have been giving China carrots for a long time now and its still a very unfree country and really in my opinion keeps the communists there in power. None of these countries we have been offering carrots to have freedom of speech, of the press or Religion. It doesn't seem to working all that well to me. Sure made a bunch of rich people here in the USA richer and middle class people jobless though.

[Abstract]

To all the Americans: I've been there. Beautiful place. You should see it sometime. ;)

[stevegmu]

I take it if B. Obama were elected, he would normalize relations with Cuba?

[Ugg]

I take it if B. Obama were elected, he would normalize relations with Cuba?

Would you care to provide a source for your statement?

[stevegmu]

Would you care to provide a source for your statement?

Sounds like something President Bush would say, and take a lot of criticism for.

"Fidel Castro's stepping down is an essential first step, but it is sadly insufficient in bringing freedom to Cuba," Obama's statement said. "If the Cuban leadership begins opening Cuba to meaningful democratic change, the United States must be prepared to begin taking steps to normalize relations and to ease the embargo of the last five decades."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/19/america/america.php

[Queso]

I take it if B. Obama were elected, he would normalize relations with Cuba?
Maybe he would. It's certainly about time don't you think? Or would that jeopardise the existence of the Camp Xray Watersports Centre?

[mactastic]

I take it if J McCain were elected, the bombing of Cuba would commence immediately?

[stevegmu]

Maybe he would. It's certainly about time don't you think? Or would that jeopardise the existence of the Camp Xray Watersports Centre?


I would be down in Havana several times/year, were there no embargo, however, relations will not be normalized until Cuba is a democracy, since Cuban-Americans vote en-bloc.

GTMO has been a US naval base since the late 1890's.

[Ugg]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/19/america/america.php


What's your point here? Normalization of US/Cuban relations has been on the agenda for decades as long as certain prerequisites are met.

Obama's statement is really pretty open ended and provides no definition of "meaningful democratic change" In other words, we'd need to hear a lot more before we could categorically say anything. Wouldn't you agree?

[Henri Gaudier]

An absolute tragedy. I'm really upset. One of the few counter balances to Americas and it's puppy Europe's lies. Only Chavez left to rub The Combine up the wrong way. A sad day. Cuba has always brought to mind quiet dignity in the face of a giant retarded bully.

[Ugg]

I would be down in Havana several times/year, were there no embargo, however, relations will not be normalized until Cuba is a democracy, since Cuban-Americans vote en-bloc.


You're extremely ill-informed. Cuban-Americans who were born in Cuba tend to vote in a bloc, those born in the US not at all.

[Queso]

GTMO has been a US naval base since the late 1890's.
True, but let's face it, tactics like those currently employed there would not be tolerated at Okinawa or Guam would they? Do you think the current state of relations with Cuba makes Gitmo a better choice of site for torturing people?

[stevegmu]

You're extremely ill-informed. Cuban-Americans who were born in Cuba tend to vote in a bloc, those born in the US not at all.

I said Cuban Americans. I assumed everyone thought it would mean Cubans who fled, and who are now Americans, not native-born Americans who are descendants of Cubans.

[mactastic]

I said Cuban Americans. I assumed everyone thought it would mean Cubans who fled, and who are now Americans, not native-born Americans who are descendants of Cubans.
When you hear the term "African-American" do you think of someone who was born in Africa and then came to America as opposed to a native-born American who is a descendant of an African?

Just curious.

[stevegmu]

When you hear the term "African-American" do you think of someone who was born in Africa and then came to America as opposed to a native-born American who is a descendant of an African?

Just curious.

Yes. I go by the correct usage, not a PC construct.

[takao]

how often has the US vetoed in the UN security council against resolutions condemning the US trade embargo against cuba, despite nearly always voted for in the general assembly overwhelmingly ?

i think last time it was 184 countries for a resolution with only the US, israel and 2 pacific island opposing it

before that it was 183 countries ...


time to let it go US .. it's fricking 2008 already

[stevegmu]

how often has the US vetoed in the UN security council against resolutions condemning the US trade embargo against cuba, despite nearly always voted for in the general assembly overwhelmingly ?

i think last time it was 184 countries for a resolution with only the US, israel and 2 pacific island opposing it

before that it was 183 countries ...


time to let it go US .. it's fricking 2008 already

Feel free to trade with Cuba. No one is stopping you.

[mactastic]

Feel free to trade with Cuba. No one is stopping you.
... he said, deliberately missing the point.

[Henri Gaudier]

Feel free to trade with Cuba. No one is stopping you.

If only. Have you read the Apple licensing agreement? It makes my blood boil every time I "agree". I wish I could win the lottery and send a 1000 Macs to Cuba, Syria and Iran etc just to flout it. If you trade with Cuba, America says you are a smuggler, a pirate and should be dealt with as such. You're no longer a trader but a criminal. Outrageous.

[kuebby]

time to let it go US .. it's fricking 2008 already

It's not always that easy. This is a "golden age" U.S. policy that is not so easily discarded, especially since the same Cuban leader has been looking back at us for so long.

[Ugg]

... he said, deliberately missing the point.

That seems to be his reason for being here, deliberate obfuscation.

[stevegmu]

If only. Have you read the Apple licensing agreement? It makes my blood boil every time I "agree". I wish I could win the lottery and send a 1000 Macs to Cuba, Syria and Iran etc just to flout it. If you trade with Cuba, America says you are a smuggler, a pirate and should be dealt with as such. You're no longer a trader but a criminal. Outrageous.

You are in France. What do you care about the licensing agreement?

[Ugg]

You are in France. What do you care about the licensing agreement?

You are in the US, why do you care about hooligans in Britain?

[solvs]

Sounds like something President Bush would say, and take a lot of criticism for.
He would be criticized because he wouldn't mean it. He said he was bringing freedom to Iraq and look at how well that's turning out. If he offered "freedom" to Cuba, we and they would wonder what that really meant, basing it on our experience with his administration. Obama is just making a blanket statement saying he'd be open to trade under the right circumstances, which is what we should be thinking. We don't know if he'd screw it up or even do it if those generalizations were met, but if he did, you act as if we wouldn't criticize him for it. Of course we would, he just hasn't given us reason to doubt him yet. Bush has, even if you don't see it.

You are in the US, why do you care about hooligans in Britain?
Didn't you get the memo? Americans are allowed to tell other countries what to do. Just not the other way around. Especially, apparently, if you're French. :rolleyes:

Not that we know why we hate the French, but we do, so don't question it or the terrorists win.

[RedTomato]

Personally I hate the fact we are so friendly with allot of these communist countries. We have been giving China carrots for a long time now and its still a very unfree country and really in my opinion keeps the communists there in power.

China isn't communist any more. In some ways they're far more free market than the USA e.g. very little market regulation, weak pollution, health and safely laws, copyright not enforced, extremely flexible labour (i.e. workers get shafted every day) etc. A free market economist's wet dream.

Much of the hot air coming from the USA towards China recently has been aimed at getting china to be a bit less capitalist and a bit more socialist i.e. enforce copyright, don't make cheap but toxic products, respect human rights etc. Embarrassingly, china's being a rather better capitalist economy than the USA.

[takao]

Feel free to trade with Cuba. No one is stopping you.

Helms-Burton Act ? how can an international company trade with cuba without losing business ?

so much for "it's all about the free market" USA

[biturbomunkie]

oh, maybe our OB/GYNs will be able to practice their... eh... love with cuban women soon.

[pachyderm]

oh, maybe our OB/GYNs will be able to practice their... eh... love with cuban women soon.

the first sensible post all day...

[Henri Gaudier]

You are in France. What do you care about the licensing agreement?

Because it offends me. Normally when a bully says "Say you're a wanker or I'll kick your head in!" you tell them to "****** off" out of pride and self assertion. You don't say "Yes I'm a wanker" under any circumstances. With the licensing agreement I click "I agree" but I don't agree and there's no way of saying so and defying it. Sure, I use the software and I don't believe in its politics but it's not enough because without defiance it's ostensibly like believing/obeying.

[RedTomato]

Yes, it's remarkable how much this affects other companies around the world. I wanted to go to Cuba a while back (I'm from the UK) but am not sure if it will affect any future visits to the USA.

BTW it was Barcardi who sponsored and supplied legal support to the Helms act :
Bacardi’s lawyers also helped draft the US Helms-Burton Act, which extends the United States’ blockade of Cuba to third countries, in breach of international trade law. So central was the role of Bacardi’s lawyer, Ignacio E Sanchez (a CANF member) in establishing Helms-Burton that US Senator William Dengue said the law should be renamed the Helms-Bacardi Protection Act.

It does get me up when they show their adverts showing Cuban life to make you buy their drinks, when they're doing their best to destroy that way of life.

Havana Club is the local Cuba rum, and it's easily available in the UK. Although Bacardi have started making their own version:

Although the blockade means that Cuban rum cannot be sold in the USA, in 1974 Cubaexport registered the Havana Club trademark there to prevent its use by other companies. The rights to the trademark were bought by the French company Pernod Ricard when it set up a joint venture with Havana Club Holdings in 1994 - in the face of threatening letters from Bacardi.

In 1996, Bacardi started illegally marketing its own Havana Club. Pernod Ricard sued. But, thanks to a section (section 211) hastily tacked onto last year’s US budget after frantic lobbying by Bacardi’s lawyers, Bacardi won. Section 211 arbitrarily stipulates that no court in the USA may recognise or in any way validate any claim regarding trademarks and commercial names related to properties ‘confiscated’ by the Cuban government. Bacardi claims Havana Club uses former Bacardi assets nationalised by Cuba in 1960. Section 211 contravenes international trade law, and Pernod Ricard is taking the case to the World Trade Organisation. As Castro pointed out, ‘I hope no one will now complain if we start marketing a Cuban Coca-Cola.’

[stevegmu]

Because it offends me. Normally when a bully says "Say you're a wanker or I'll kick your head in!" you tell them to "****** off" out of pride and self assertion. You don't say "Yes I'm a wanker" under any circumstances. With the licensing agreement I click "I agree" but I don't agree and there's no way of saying so and defying it. Sure, I use the software and I don't believe in its politics but it's not enough because without defiance it's ostensibly like believing/obeying.

I can't imagine buying a product from a company I felt so strongly against. Perhaps Microsoft doesn't have a licensing agreement which forbids resellers from doing business with Cuba.

[mactastic]

"Many observers believe Fidel Castro will either be replaced by his brother Raul, or by his idiot son, Fidel W. Castro." - David Letterman
:p:D

[Queso]

"Many observers believe Fidel Castro will either be replaced by his brother Raul, or by his idiot son, Fidel W. Castro." - David Letterman
:p:D
That's class :D

[Henri Gaudier]

I can't imagine buying a product from a company I felt so strongly against. Perhaps Microsoft doesn't have a licensing agreement which forbids resellers from doing business with Cuba.

The moment one has a modicum of awareness it becomes clear that there is no one to trade with or buy from without compromise. I'm vegan and buy food for my cats. That struggle, if one is sufficiently present to take part, is an age old war. Cheap pissy shot about M$oft too. It isn't specifically Apple as the laws against trade with Cuba were not instigated by said company.

I don't want to start a slanging match but you do understand that? N'est-ce pas?

[RedTomato]

Cheap pissy shot about M$oft too. It isn't specifically Apple as the laws against trade with Cuba were not instigated by said company.

Neither Apple nor MS are involved. It's mainly Bacardi who are responsible for this embargo mess, as I pointed out earlier in this thread.

[pachyderm]

"Many observers believe Fidel Castro will either be replaced by his brother Raul, or by his idiot son, Fidel W. Castro." - David Letterman
:p:D

too funny.

[Henri Gaudier]

Neither Apple nor MS are involved. It's mainly Bacardi who are responsible for this embargo mess, as I pointed out earlier in this thread.

Er ... tail chasing perhaps but ... as I said my objection is to the licence agreement and yes this isn't specifically an Apple thing. I'll take your word on how important Bacardi's claws were in the debacle.

[RedTomato]

Er ... tail chasing perhaps but ... as I said my objection is to the licence agreement and yes this isn't specifically an Apple thing. I'll take your word on how important Bacardi's claws were in the debacle.

Yeah I agree with you on the license. I remember being shocked to read a clause about Cuba somewhere in my documentation from Apple, when I bought my first PowerBook in the UK. This was back when I still had time to read these things :)

I just read the wiki article about Bacardi - I didn't realise quite how obsessed Bacardi are with Cuba - everything they do seems to revolve around shafting Cuba.

Scary when it's a family-owned company with an income of $3 billion a year, and a history of buying their own B-26 bombers to bomb Cuba with... :eek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacardi

[Henri Gaudier]

I can't imagine buying a product from a company I felt so strongly against. Perhaps Microsoft doesn't have a licensing agreement which forbids resellers from doing business with Cuba.

It's amazing what you'll Google after 2 bottles of Bordeaux Superior:-

END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE

5. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. You agree that you will not export or re-export the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, any part thereof, or any process or service that is the direct product of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT (the foregoing collectively referred to as the "Restricted Components"), to any country, person or entity subject to U.S. export restrictions. You specifically agree not to export or re-export any of the Restricted Components: (i) to any country to which the U.S. has embargoed or restricted the export of goods or services, which currently include, but are not necessarily limited to Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, and the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (including Serbia, but not Montenegro), or to any national of any such country, wherever located, who intends to transmit or transport the Restricted Components back to such country; (ii) to any person or entity who you know or have reason to know will utilize the Restricted Components in the design, development or production of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons; or (iii) to any person or entity who has been prohibited from participating in U.S. export transactions by any federal agency of the U.S. government. You warrant and represent that neither the BXA nor any other U.S. federal agency has suspended, revoked or denied your export privileges.

[RedTomato]

If I read that right, if you run a home webserver (via MS or OSX doesn't matter; both have the same clause), then you are breaching the license if you allow anyone from that list of countries to access any webpage on your computer. (serving a webpage is a service of the software)

:confused::eek::mad:

[pachyderm]

Yes. I go by the correct usage, not a PC construct.

most of my friends prefer to be called black... or even just by their name...;)

[stevento]

classic republican hate mongering

[stevegmu]

classic republican hate mongering

The trade embargo?

[solvs]

European Union to lift sanctions on Cuba (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/06/19/eu.cuba.sanctions/index.html)

[és:]

European Union to lift sanctions on Cuba (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/06/19/eu.cuba.sanctions/index.html)

So, I wonder how the USA are going to react to that, considering their statements regarding their own sanctions on Cuba over the years.

The sooner this heinous act ends, the better.