Hell Warming Up?

[MacRumors]

Apple's iTunes for Windows launch proudly displayed the phrase "Hell Froze Over" on their corporate site (http://www.apple.com).

Hell freezing over humorously referred to the fact that Apple had finally developed a major consumer application (iTunes) for the Windows platform.

In recent weeks, Apple's site has seen a few changes due to the release of iBooks and Mac OS X Panther, but their 'Introducing iTunes for Window' splash page now removes the amusing 'Hell 'reference.

We received a report that the reason for this is due to the objection of some higher level individuals who were involved in the Richmond, VA school system iBook purchase (23,000). Due to this (high profile) objection, Apple reportedly changed their page to remove the reference.

[johnnowak]

Southerners...

[lduncan]

some people really are pathetic!

[dricci]

That's lame. :rolleyes: Why are people so scared of four letter words?

[restiffbard]

I'm officially ashamed of my Commonwealth now.

[manitoubalck]

Didn't the Eagles use that very phrase for a very similar reason?

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
Didn't the Eagles use that very phrase for a very similar reason?
Yep - 14 years prior to its release they said hell would freeze over before they would get back together. They did, hence the album name. Didn't hear any objections about that one. Great album too.

[manitoubalck]

I must agree, one of the best live albums released.

[joanb96]

Hi,

So that reference to an Eagles album is BRILLIANT, because it's like Apple had said before "We'll be doing windows software when hell freezes over", like the Eagles said of a band reunion.
A great reference because we're talking about music here, so...
I loved it, what a pity it doesn't show anymore!

JoanB

[Cochrane]

There might also be other reasons for this. For example, as I already pointed out in another post Apple said they would bring 2-Button mice as soon as either Steve Jobs leaves the company or hell freezes over. Well, as they apparently don't want those mice they had to prevent hell from freezing over.

[punter]

I thought the "hell freezing over" apple page was the best and funniest I'd ever seen. I should have known that anything I found that amusing must be offensive to someone.

And now that hell has frozen over hopefully we CAN have a two button mouse :D

[Raiden]

I happen to be one of the people in the richmond VA Ibook program (senior at godwin high school), and on the behalf of all the kids here who think beurocratic nonsence like this, I would like to thorowly appoligize for the removal of the hell freezes over joke.

BTW, im posting this on my ibook. :)

[MorganX]

As liberal as I am, I don't have a problem with it.

I don't have a problem with Apple using the reference, or a large customer asking it be removed. I actually respect Apple for removing it.

[the_mole1314]

Originally posted by Raiden
I happen to be one of the people in the richmond VA Ibook program (senior at godwin high school), and on the behalf of all the kids here who think beurocratic nonsence like this, I would like to thorowly appoligize for the removal of the hell freezes over joke.

BTW, im posting this on my ibook. :)

Ditto, same here

[Sol]

Let me get this straight: the objection to Apple posting that hell froze came not from a religious body but from an educational one?! Richmond educators should put away their bibles and do what the are supposed to do: give their students a modern education.

[Mr. Anderson]

That is a bit pathetic, but not all that surprising.....no matter what, you can't please everyone and some are just more annoying and narrow minded than others.

D

[rt_brained]

Who the hell is in charge over there in the Richmond, VA school system?

I wanna tell them where they can go.

[Exponent]

I think it's not so much of a religious matter as the idea that "Hell" is considered a kissing-cousin to a cuss word in some more genteel quarters. It certainly is an "adult" word, in many contexts. (In other words, you'd look askance at a, say, 5 year old uttering "Hell!")

That being said, it's being used to advertise a music store with all kinds of mature content in it. Actually, I'm surprised that Apple hasn't been asked/forced to come out with a screen that blocks sales of "Explicit" songs.

And for anyone thinking this is just a conservative/religious thing, just remember that it was Tipper Gore (husband of a certain Apple Board member) who pushed _that_ whole concept.

[1macker1]

I think the educators are right. And the phrase didnt make any sense anyway. Quicktime is already on windows. Apple knows that ignorant people love unimaginative phrases.

[B.B.]

Most people would probably call me a conservative Christian, but this situation seems ridiculous to me. But who's really to blame here?

Apple? Nope -- they're looking out for potential future sales and they don't want to risk those just for a (very clever) web banner.

(Alleged) Conservative Christians? Nope -- they are as entitled to their beliefs as anyone else, and are free to express them in the marketplace.

The ACLU? Perhaps, but probably not -- maybe this purely cultural reference to hell will be interpreted by a secular zealot as an attempt to impose religious values in our schools. ;)

The program administrators? Not really -- they probably aren't scared of single four letter word, instead they're frightened of...

Lawyers? -- That's it! Let's blame the attorneys who would take some group's irrational objection and turn it into a (frivolous) (very pofitable) lawsuit against the school district.

I'm a Recovering Attorney myself, and a former school district employee. I can see the fingerprints of our overly litigious culture all over this silly move.

[SiliconAddict]

$(@*&(@#@#(*&#!#!#!#~~~!!!! with a $*(@#*#@# while stuffing a banana up your *$!!@*#()$$*@#&!!!!**&# with a )$@$)(*)@(#*@# while strung upside down )*!*#$&&$*@) #(@#) #@ while #$*) in a very uncomfortable @#%)_!)$))(%(%#%# and the horse you rode in on.
:D

PS- People like this need to be taken out back and given a severe beating for gross stupidity. Oh. I'm sorry Apple deflowered your virgin eyes. Heaven help you. How will you ever survive now that you've read those three little letter. :eek: And I hate to say this but its not like some kid isn't going to hear a word like HELL 10,000 times in his/her life. :rolleyes:

Thank god Jobs didn't have the slogan:
holy ****!!! HELL froze over!! There would be a national campaign to kick Apple out of the country.

[jamesatzones]

Hell Hell Hell, why is it that anything can be construed to offend someone. Boycott the Eagles, they used it first. I wonder how many teachers in VA listen to the Eagles. What about Time magazine, they have had hell on the cover if I recall correctly. This is unfortunately a time in our society where just about anything you say can offend someone.

Let's change it to purgatory froze over, or heaven heated up...

Just my view, I'm sure I will offend someone somehow just by saying this...

[Dros]

Can someone post a link about this story?

[SilentPanda]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
$(@*&(@#@#(*&#!#!#!#~~~!!!! with a $*(@#*#@# while stuffing a banana up your *$!!@*#()$$*@#&!!!!**&# with a )$@$)(*)@(#*@# while strung upside down )*!*#$&&$*@) #(@#) #@ while #$*) in a very uncomfortable @#%)_!)$))(%(%#%# and the horse you rode in on.
:D

From Sam & Max Hit the Road


Sam: Percent sign, Ampersand, Dollar Sign.
Max: And colon, semi-colon too!
Telekenic Guy: What are you two F@*#&*g doing?
Sam: Swearing in longhand asterisk mouth

[Photorun]

What the hell! Stupid humorless bible thumpers. Hell is using peecees so clearly there's hell on earth. People who lack humor need to go to hell.

[maclamb]

23K ibooks is a lot.
I think they (VA) are entitled to object (why they object is a different matter - I tend to agree about the wildly over-litigous nature of our society - probably wouldn't have happened in europe)
And I respect apple for pulling it
It was basically a joke (a good one, I think) and was up for quite a while and we and lots of others got it.
Time to move on.

[hvfsl]

I am a christain, but dont mind that Apple put hell on its website. But Apple has to respond to the needs/wants of its comsumers if it wants to make money. Apple could have kept the word 'hell' on the site, but what would have been the point? To show people they dont care what customers think.

This kind of thing happened to Nike when they started out, their first logo looked a bit like the Islamic symbol and many muslims complained. So Nike changed the logo to what it is today. Nike could have just said, how cares, we will just not sell to muslims. But then they would have made less money.

Apple removing the word 'hell' does not make their products any better or worst, I think the people in this forum and the people complaining are making a big deal about nothing.

[pscates]

Originally posted by Raiden
I happen to be one of the people in the richmond VA Ibook program (senior at godwin high school), and on the behalf of all the kids here who think beurocratic nonsence like this, I would like to thorowly appoligize for the removal of the hell freezes over joke.

BTW, im posting this on my ibook. :)

Any chance that iBook has some sort of spell-checking capability built in?

:(

I sometimes wonder if technology is being hyped/implemented at the expense of "the basics"?

Schools might do well to worry less about "a laptop in every lap" and instead making damn sure everyone they pass/graduate can spell, add, write, subtract, etc.

It's cool that iBooks, wireless networks, digital media-based reports and so forth are becoming common in schools. But it isn't the end-all/be-all point, you know? Cart before the horse, and all of that.

An iMovie about Washington crossing the Delaware that's full of typos in the captions/credits isn't cool.

:)

[hvfsl]

Originally posted by Photorun
What the hell! Stupid humorless bible thumpers. Hell is using peecees so clearly there's hell on earth. People who lack humor need to go to hell.

Like you? :D

[the_mole1314]

Lets get some thing straigt:

a.) Every kid in the school system can see this phrase, from kindergardeners on their iMacs to Seniors on their iBooks.

b.) If you had a kid and whenever they start IE or Safari they see "HELL FROZE OVER" and they were young, woutl you let them see it?

c.) It's only a matter of time before parents come to bitch and moan. Look at the parents who are suing to stop their school from using wireless networks because it might have effects on their kids! Idiots!

[Les Kern]

All things being equal, we need to remove "under god" from our pleadge asap.

[the_mole1314]

Everyone makes this discussion religious, it's not. It's a simple fact that the school dosn't want little kids exposed to 'Hell Froze Over'. I think that's a fine trade off IMHO.

[Powerbook G5]

I loved the "Hell just froze over" caption. It amused me, but really, before too long it will be removed from the front page and replaced by something else and soon forgotten, anyway. Besides, according to Dante, the 9th circle of hell has always been frozen over due to Satan's flapping wings cooling it off to a deep freeze.

[1macker1]

And you are absolutely correct.
Originally posted by the_mole1314
Everyone makes this discussion religious, it's not. It's a simple fact that the school dosn't want little kids exposed to 'Hell Froze Over'. I think that's a fine trade off IMHO.

[FlamDrag]

It's not uncommon for companies to change their ads due to consumer backlash. However mild many consider "hell" to be, they lose nothing by removing it and gain something by doing so. It makes perfect sense to me.

Still, the headline should have read "No ********* way" Maybe they're saving that for one of the following:

1. iWalk / iPod PDA
2. OS X on x86
3. Powerbooks on Tuesday.

[Powerbook G5]

No ***** way would be "Macs--Now compatible/shipping with Windows XP"

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Les Kern
All things being equal, we need to remove "under god" from our pleadge asap.

Let me know if I'm off on this but didn't the pledge originally come "under God" free? I thought I read it was early 20th century when congress passed a resolution to add "under God" Anyone? :confused:

[imbriumink]

The pledge of allegiance has nothing to do with this forum. I think the under God was added due to the communist scare since they were "godless" communists.

[allpar]

The addition of Under God was indeed a 1950s addition that would repel some of the Founding Fathers, whose religious beliefs would make them enemies of the Pat Robertson gang. It was again added under the belief that all atheists must be Communists because officially Communism was atheist - at least, in the Soviet Union, which did allow churches and synagogues to continue with roughly the same freedoms, that is to say not too many, as the czars allowed.

I find it amazing that we can have 57,000 people excluded from voting in Florida (intentionally-wrongly marked as ex-felons), and that hardly gets a whisper of outrage, but the removal of the word "Hell" gets all this emotion. People are ASSUMING that this rumor about Virginia is true. People are ASSUMING this has something to do with political correctness. Perhaps it simply confused customers. Perhaps they wanted to add something else and felt the Hell message was diluting it.

[Rower_CPU]

It was their filtering software, as far as I heard. It flagged the word and refused to load the page.

It's a moot point anyway, because the iBook updates would have superseded the iTunes announcement regardless of its content.

[Steven1621]

i think it is pretty stupid to make such a big deal over a word, but certainly it is far more important to protect the opportunity that 23000 ibooks provides.

[x86isslow]

Originally posted by Exponent
Tipper Gore (husband of a certain Apple Board member) who pushed _that_ whole concept.

so lemme get this straight. tipper is Al's husband? :eek:

[Belly-laughs]

Originally posted by dricci
That's lame. :rolleyes: Why are people so scared of four letter words?

Exactly! Most of us will probably end up there, so it´s nice to see Steve making it more comfortable.

[allpar]

If some people are offended by four letter words, what's the harm in simply not using them? Seriously... there are far more important threats to our freedom than not being able to cuss in print. Or is how we say it more important than what we are saying?

[edenwaith]

I, for one, am very glad to see Apple making such an intelligent decision upon their part to get rid of that DREADFUL phrase, with that ever-naughty word. Since that ad came out, I've been involved in no less than three felony crimes, and I blame it all on seeing that one 'word' on Apple's site! Now, hopefully I can live a semi-peaceful life again now that Apple has had its corporate mouth washed out. However, I will be scarred forever after the events which have transpired in the past few weeks.

I must go now and get ready for my court date tomorrow.

P.S. I'm kidding! I use four-letter words every day. Such as will, then, send, long, term, must, have...even my keyboard is littered with those 4-letter buggers: home, help, page, caps, lock.

[Mudbug]

I wonder if it physically hurts at all to walk around every day having your sense of humor surgically removed.

It's sad we've gotten to the point of not even joking around anymore.

[rueyeet]

Like the_mole1314 and 1macker1, I think that this had less to do with lack of a sense of humor, religious morals, or over-sensitive political correctness than possibly with a) school filters nixing Apple's homepage, or b) parents faced with how to explain to their kids that they shouldn't use words like "hell" inappropriately when it's displayed prominently on Apple's homepage.

You certainly do have the right to freedom of speech, and I don't believe there's anything intrinsically wrong with such words, but not in front of the elementary school kids, if you don't mind; they don't yet have the appreciation of context and subtlety that proper swearing requires for maximum impact and meaning. :D ;)

[Gabriel]

From the Henrico County Observer:

In other news the Henrico County school district has banned Dante's controversial classic The Inferno from high school curricula and is removing the book from the shelves of county libraries. Students and parents have been asked to hand in their books so that they (the books) can be burned in a public ceremony next week. It has not yet been decided whether students will be required to demonstrate the goose-step marches they have learned and sing "Deutchland Uber Alles" at the event.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by hvfsl
This kind of thing happened to Nike when they started out, their first logo looked a bit like the Islamic symbol and many muslims complained. So Nike changed the logo to what it is today. Nike could have just said, how cares, we will just not sell to muslims. But then they would have made less money.

I think what happened there is Nike released a shoe with some curly meaningless script on it that looked like "Allah" in Arabic. Walking on the name of God isn't exactly welcomed (the feet are considered dirty), so they changed it.

Originally posted by imbriumink
The pledge of allegiance has nothing to do with this forum. I think the under God was added due to the communist scare since they were "godless" communists.

Yup.

[Gabriel]

If I remember correctly the phrase "under god" was added in 1954 during the Eisenhower administration. I don't know how much the godless communists had to do with that.

Personally I'm very suspicious of any type of absurd political correctness, but the folks who want to repeal the "under god" law have a valid point, this isn't something on a private companies website, like the "hell froze over" thing, its something kids are required to chant every day and that can (1) make someone who doesn't happen to agree with that mantra very uncomfortable and (2) promote something that the government has absolutely no business promoting.

Now it occurs to me that the Henrico County people probably are running into the same problem with "hell froze over" because it sounds like they left www.apple.com as the default website on 23,000 computers. If thats the case than they probably have a valid reason for asking Apple to take down the phrase. However, why are they leaving apple.com as the default website? Isn't there something a little odd going on when its okay to make 23,000 kids look at a corporate website every day from a school computer but its not okay to say hell on that website?

[Apple][Forever]

Don't open this if you're sensitive.

http://www.chriscieslak.com/appleitunes.jpg

[Dros]

Has this story actually happened?

I've been searching various news sites and keep coming up empty.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Gabriel
If I remember correctly the phrase "under god" was added in 1954 during the Eisenhower administration. I don't know how much the godless communists had to do with that.

They had everything to do with it.

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by Dros
Has this story actually happened?

I've been searching various news sites and keep coming up empty.

something this insignifigant is probably not newsworthy... it would not be reported on either way.

but you bring up the most important point here. this is a rumor, and a page 2 rumor at that. roll that one around for a while before you go sending hate mail to the district.

who the hell cares? seriously. i don't think they had the right to ask Apple to change it, unless of course apple.com is the start page, but clearly Apple themselves did... i actually expected Apple to take it down in a day or two anyway, it's not quite apple's style, but something they would do for big apple fans as a bit of fun. apple has gotten very casual lately but i don't think "hell froze over" is going to spend much time on the front page, school district be damned.

and phil is correct, "under god" was a psychological technique to help band americans together against a common enemy, while showing a more solid front to the enemy. the cold war is almost 20 years gone, it's about time for that little addition to be stricken. my beliefs are mine, not the government's, and in school they forced me to make an oath that i disagreed with. the only people that want it left in are the right-wing nuts that are afraid of losing ground in the christian takeover of america.

:)
pnw

[Gyroscope]

I have heard that heaps of right wing radical christians live in your country! We dont have that here in Australia that much at all. :P

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by Gyroscope
I have heard that heaps of right wing radical christians live in your country! We dont have that here in Australia that much at all. :P

Here's to Australia, where zeolites, and radicals can rant and rave and no on cares.

[GorillaPaws]

Originally posted by rt_brained
Who the hell is in charge over there in the Richmond, VA school system?

I wanna tell them where they can go.

Mark Edwards is the Superintendent of Henrico County Public Schoools. He's actually a pretty cool guy (I've met him before because I used to go to school in Henrico). Anyways, the deal is they've got this revolutionary new program where all kids grades 6-12 get an iBook and have this whole integrated classroom thing (it's really big for Apple), and while I don't think that Apple should've removed the "hell freezing over" reference (cause I thought it was funny as hell), I can see how the superintendant (or whoever in the administration) might have been nervous about the reference with all the conservative parents in his school district (esp, with 6th graders reading it). Not that I would complain if I had a 6th grade child, but I can sorta see where they're coming from. Just my 2 cents. btw, the homepage for henrico county public schools is http://www.henrico.k12.va.us

[Sol]

Originally posted by Gyroscope
I have heard that heaps of right wing radical christians live in your country! We dont have that here in Australia that much at all. :P

Well there is a minister called George Pell who jumps up and down when Marilyn Manson comes to town. I do not know about other states but here in QLD the transport minister spends half his day taking down billboards with raunchy content.

Oh, and our prime minister is a right wing A-hole who is stuck in some idealised version of the past.

[rockman2023]

Originally posted by Apple][Forever
Don't open this if you're sensitive.

http://www.chriscieslak.com/appleitunes.jpg

HAHAHAHAHAHA, NIICE, HAHAHAHA, I LOVE THAT :D

What I'm not to thirilled about though is how society tries to "protect" children from "the truth", candy-coating everything. Sooner or later, they'll be exposed to reality. Just look at TV, plenty of violence on there. What about cartoons?? Whatever, i could give two flying pieces of rat *****.

That picture is priceless, HAHAHAHAHAHA

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by rockman2023
What I'm not to thirilled about though is how society tries to "protect" children from "the truth", candy-coating everything. Sooner or later, they'll be exposed to reality. Just look at TV, plenty of violence on there. What about cartoons?? Whatever, i could give two flying pieces of rat *****.

I hear what your saying, My generation grew up on Transformers, Ninja Tutles, now though it's all Pokemon and Spunge Bob where there are morrals to the cartoons.

[MetallicPenguin]

I really don't understand why some parents are so protective. Oh, and about the Under God thing, I've been thinking about this topic for a couple months, like others said, some disagree and find it uncomfortable. Like me.

PS: The macintosh community is where I have found most of the atheists and such I've met, is there some reason to this? Or have I just not been out much.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by MetallicPenguin
I really don't understand why some parents are so protective. Oh, and about the Under God thing, I've been thinking about this topic for a couple months, like others said, some disagree and find it uncomfortable. Like me.

PS: The macintosh community is where I have found most of the atheists and such I've met, is there some reason to this? Or have I just not been out much.

You just haven't been out much.

Actually, Mac users are by average, smarter and better educated, as are nonbelievers, so it might match.

BTW, I'm very atheist.

[Les Kern]

Originally posted by Gyroscope
I have heard that heaps of right wing radical christians live in your country! We dont have that here in Australia that much at all. :P

Our airwaves are filled with fundamentalist nut-cases of every ilk. The problem isn't that in itself, the real issue is that the neo-cons running our crappy government are aligning themselves with them; slowly but surely removing our secular moniker. Then, sir, we're hosed. I guess it's concievable that my daughters daughters son will one day march into Beijing carrying an M-16 and a cross. Oh how proud I'll be.

[sparkleytone]

I wish the hair trigger idiots on this board would get a frickin clue.

First of all, 'Hell froze over.' was bound to be a temporary attention-grabbing catch phrase for the introduction of iTunes for Windows.

Secondly, the bigger issue here has been politely mentioned by a more intelligent board member here...this being the fact that a good bit of CONTENT FILTERING SOFTWARE installed on public computers and educational computers would block access to apple.com. This is NOT a good thing for Apple, and would therefore need to be changed quickly. It HAS been changed quickly. They made their statement, and now its a functional 'iTunes for Windows' advertisement.

Get over yourselves.

[Frohickey]

Is Hell Exothermic or Endothermic? (http://www.pinetree.net/humor/thermodynamics.html)
Dr. Schambaugh, of the University of Oklahoma School of Chemical Engineering, Final Exam question for May of 1997. Dr. Schambaugh is known for asking questions such as, "why do airplanes fly?" on his final exams. His one and only final exam question in May 1997 for his Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer II class was: "Is hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with proof."

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

"First, We postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave.

Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, then you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and souls go to hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant. Two options exist:

If hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose.
If hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over.

So which is it? If we accept the quote given to me by Theresa Manyan during Freshman year, "that it will be a cold night in hell before I sleep with you" and take into account the fact that I still have NOT succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then Option 2 cannot be true...Thus, hell is exothermic."

The student, Tim Graham, got the only A.

[jamesatzones]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Actually, Mac users are by average, smarter and better educated, as are nonbelievers, so it might match.

BTW, I'm very atheist.

If you look at the average Mac user, they are as a whole better educated and on average make $80K a year. I read that somewhere and I am now desperately searching for it so I can share it with this forum. Nonbelievers I do not have the same information for, however atheists tend to be better educated as a whole group compared to religious fanatics who are always searching for a hope, my knowledge on that comes from a thesis I wrote back several years ago. Members of Mensa are split on religion and won't disrespect another's belief, these people as a group have the highest IQ's in the world yet understand and can comprehend life. I won't say I am atheist, my beliefs are exactly that, my beliefs. I don't look down on the bible thumpers out there, nor the muslims, the Jew's or Mormon's.

The reason I bring this all up is for, which applies to those of us in the US, is that we a free from a Government that controls religion, speech, and basic human rights however every day some religious group is applying pressure here or there against my rights. The only religions people I look at with true admiralty and respect is the Tibetan Monks, they have what most people want in life, inner peace.

Tomorrow I am going to make it a point to say hell, a word that I don't use often, but I am going to say it just to raise hell. If I offend anyone, I am sorry, I am offended about this whole topic. It will take hell to freeze over or for man kind to die out before this world can enjoy unity!

[m_gerbik]

I agree completely with Apple's decision to remove the h-e-double-hockey-sticks word from their site and applaud the courage of the right-wing a-holes who forced them to do it. I myself have been campaigning for years to have that very word removed from that impure book called "The Bible". Any kid can pick that book up and see hundreds of references to it! Maybe we should just rename the Bible "iBook" m-fers.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Frohickey
Is Hell Exothermic or Endothermic? (http://www.pinetree.net/humor/thermodynamics.html)

We can tell that at least one professor has a way to make his essays more enjoyable to grade!

[hvfsl]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
You just haven't been out much.

Actually, Mac users are by average, smarter and better educated, as are nonbelievers, so it might match.

BTW, I'm very atheist.

Please dont put such sweeping, made up comments in a thread like this, you are only inviting flaming. There has never been a study to show Mac users are more intelligent than PC users, or atheists being more intelligent than religious types. (even if there had, the survey would have to take into account the whole world to be acurate). If anything, you have proved the reverse with your sweeping statement.

If anything Mac users might be dumber than PC users, since Macs are easier to use and so require less brain power.

[SpaceMagic]

Another example of religion causing problems...

I cannot believe they told Apple to take it off. Why can people not say 'Hell'? Afterall , believers in Christ, some will be going there! It freezing over is amusing as those people wont get burnt! :p

[the_mole1314]

There seems to be more speculation instead of fact in this thread. I'll come clean, I'm the one who submitted this news, and yes, it is news, it's true.

Now, here is the history of the event. Henrico bought over 23,000 iBooks in 2001 for use by the high school and middle school students. They already have many iMacs and other older macs laying around that have Apple.com as thier main home page. Now, when Thursday came around, Henrico was having some problems with the 'Hell Froze Over' phrase. Not that it says Hell, but more that parents would come around complaining about the phrase, so they then blocked the URL, which registers a 404 error to the user, while the page is really there. Now, this happened mid day Friday. Apple changed it on Monday and the page was un-blocked. I agree that the phrase was hilarious, but in terms of 6 year olds running around saying 'hell', I'm not a huge fan of that.

[StealthRider]

That being said, it's being used to advertise a music store with all kinds of mature content in it. Actually, I'm surprised that Apple hasn't been asked/forced to come out with a screen that blocks sales of "Explicit" songs.

[/B]

Oh, come on. They are clearly marked "Explicit" and it is not Apple's job to screen explicit music from kids. That is , and always has been, the parents' job.

[jimh123456]

USO Performer (complaining about her sprained ankle): "It hurts like heck."

Hawkeye Pierce: "You can say 'hell' here - this is Korea. If you can't say 'hell' in hell, where in hell can you say it?"

[whooleytoo]

Apple is actually really sensitive to concerns like these (odd that it's so PC! ;). In fact, in early builds of Copland, the smiley Mac winked, but was removed after a bug was logged saying it might be offensive to some cultures!

[humantech]

I also thought the reference was extremely funny. I am a relatively conservative christian with a few pseudo hippy liberal beliefs :-)
All the backlash about someone asking to have it removed ( also, a rumor...) seems a little bit anti free speech- I dont think anyone threatened to sue ( or if they did, we have no evidence of that) -- I mean, the second side of the free speech coin is that someone has the right to ask for something to be removed that offends them, or makes them uncomfortable- Apple didnt seem to have a big issue with it so stop getting your panties in a twist girls.....
as always, my 2 cents.....

[sparkleytone]

It looks like logic and reason are beyond the capacity of a BUNCH of the newcomers to this forum.

/me heads back to the IRC channel.

[humantech]

ou just haven't been out much.

Actually, Mac users are by average, smarter and better educated, as are nonbelievers, so it might match.

BTW, I'm very atheist.


That is the most ABSURD thing I have ever heard... " You make outrageous claims- like you invented the question mark!" :-)
.Could someone please post the links to the "studies" that have been done to prove that mac users and "non-believers" are smarter than their christian and pc using counterparts? I need a good laugh--
Honestly--- Because someone is an atheist, they think they have it all figured out.... BTW- I am a dyed in the wool mac user, Apple specialist reseller , paid Mac consultant , digital musician ( using macs of course) and a christian. BTW- We christians DO get to have sex, occasionally curse ( although its not really to classy to do so), drink and enjoy the arts.... ( yes even nudes)--- I'm also quite sure Mensa, Nasa and even more importantly, people who do all manner of real day to day building, designing, engineering, science , etc.. are christian. Albert Einstein himself believed in God. get a clue about reality and stop living in a college 101 philiosophy course - maybe you should practice a little diversity and actually hang out with some christians for a while so you better understand that they to are people with different beliefs from yours.... isnt that what atheism is about- ? Not believing unless you have some proof and facts, or at least use a scientific method to determine that " until proven wrong, there is a strong liklihood that this is correct"?

My 2 cents---
Tech

[bluedalmatian]

i'd be much more concerned about my children being exposed to lazy americanisms like 'go see'

for God's sake.

[PretendPCuser]

if it was someone who all ready bought a ton of ibooks? I guess Apple has to be considerate of them, but there are far greater evils in the world these days.

<rant>TV is EVIL I tells ya! Down with the TV! How many murders do you see on the internet? (Notice i didn't say how many murders does a child hear in songs that s/he might listen to by the time he's 18.)

Does he sing along with them? GUess what? It's called parenting. Heaven forbid you might have to talk about something with your child on par with the afterlife. Might cause you (and more importantly, your child) to have to THINK! We can't have THAT!!

Oh, and don't let anyone think they can express feelings or anything either. That's taboo!

Some people need to get an afterlife....sheesh

OH, and BTW, i happen to be a parent. Not afraid to talk to my kid about things that come up.
</rant>

[jimh123456]

... isnt that what atheism is about- ? Not believing unless you have some proof and facts, or at least use a scientific method to determine that " until proven wrong, there is a strong liklihood that this is correct"?

Actually, what you are describing is agnosticism. Atheism is an absolute disbelief in God, which, to me, is just as irrational as is a belief in God - there's no "proof" either way.

As a die-hard agnostic, I'm proud to say I have no idea WHAT to believe and probably never will.

[tny]

Originally posted by B.B.

The ACLU? Perhaps, but probably not -- maybe this purely cultural reference to hell will be interpreted by a secular zealot as an attempt to impose religious values in our schools. ;)


Edited out my own objections to this posting, which were off topic. So is this comment, which betrays a terrible ignorance of what the ACLU does.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Sol
Let me get this straight: the objection to Apple posting that hell froze came not from a religious body but from an educational one?! Richmond educators should put away their bibles and do what the are supposed to do: give their students a modern education.

The point being that "Hell" is on the list of "forbidden words" (along with many a more salacious four-letter word) in many school districts around the country. This includes the California district where I went to school, too (or at least did then).

It is perhaps a rather "strict" reading of such rules to require that any site mentioning any of those words must be banned from students' sight. On the other hand, given the vast array of schools and districts in this country, there's bound to be a couple that read their rules in such a way.

Of course, it would make perfect sense if the Apple site had gotten nixed by "Net Nanny" ninny-ware. Most of those programs allow you to enter a list of blocking words, and if any of those words exist on a web page the page filters out and the user gets a connection error instead.

[the_mole1314]

Originally posted by jettredmont
The point being that "Hell" is on the list of "forbidden words" (along with many a more salacious four-letter word) in many school districts around the country. This includes the California district where I went to school, too (or at least did then).

It is perhaps a rather "strict" reading of such rules to require that any site mentioning any of those words must be banned from students' sight. On the other hand, given the vast array of schools and districts in this country, there's bound to be a couple that read their rules in such a way.

Of course, it would make perfect sense if the Apple site had gotten nixed by "Net Nanny" ninny-ware. Most of those programs allow you to enter a list of blocking words, and if any of those words exist on a web page the page filters out and the user gets a connection error instead.

I decided to jump into the Way Back Machine to look at the code for the page to see if that's right. Things are blocked by three ways:

-Bad words in the text (or source code)
-Blocked due to problems in school (game sites, email)
-Blocked through Terminal

Unfortunatly, I couldn't find the Hell page. But the problem with your theory is that the words need to be as text, not a image, which was what the phrase was in. The county actually went and BLOCKED the site because of the phrase, not the software.

[Matthé]

filtering software that filters fourletter words even if they're written as images?
serious filter if you ask me

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Matthé
filtering software that filters fourletter words even if they're written as images?
serious filter if you ask me

Without looking at the actual site, the image text could be blocked one of four ways (none of which entails doing OCR on the image):

[list=1]
the ALT text
The Title
An HTML comment
The image URL
[/list=1]

If Apple used any of the four (and the ALT text or Title attribute should have been used as a part of good web design), then simple text-filtering software would filter their page out.


Looking at the current www.apple.com page, the main image says:


Mac OS X Panther
The Evolution of the Species.

Now Available.

With over 150 innovative new features, it's like getting a whole new Mac.


Looking at the source code, you will see the ALT text for that image like so:


alt="Mac OS X Panther. The Evolution of the Species."


Thus, I find it higly likely that the previous "Hell froze over" campaign did, indeed, use the likes of:


alt="Hell Froze Over"


to describe itself.

Anyone wish to go way-back and prove me wrong/right?

Again, it's just a theory. But if I were running a school district about to buy a few thousand or so iBooks and suddenly the Apple home page (and hence the most logical route to sales and help etc) was inaccessible to all my computers, I think I'd ask Apple to change it.

(Edit: thought of a fourth way for the image text to be filterable :) )

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by hvfsl
Please dont put such sweeping, made up comments in a thread like this, you are only inviting flaming. There has never been a study to show Mac users are more intelligent than PC users, or atheists being more intelligent than religious types. (even if there had, the survey would have to take into account the whole world to be acurate). If anything, you have proved the reverse with your sweeping statement.

If anything Mac users might be dumber than PC users, since Macs are easier to use and so require less brain power.

There have been several studies showing that Mac users are better educated and make more money. There have been several studies showing a correlation between high IQ and better education and lack of religion. It is demographic fact, and the two do correlate. It's not a stretch to suggest that due to convergence between the two demographics, you end up with more nonbelievers using Macs.

[matthew24]

Normally as a Apple-fan I know that this board is not the right place to talk about my conviction, and refrain to do so, but with this subject I feel compelled to respond.

Some points:

1) I am a born again Christian.
2) I am not offended by Apple.
3) I do love Jesus and the Apple community.
4) I don’t like MS too much.

As I said I am not offended by the slogan, but I am really anxious when non-believers talk that easy about things they do believe are fiction but in reality do exist. There are other spiritual realities like Heaven, God, satan, angels, and demons.
I know that millions of people who persist in their sin and unbelief will never make it into heaven. (This also applies to believers who persist in their sin!)

A link wih the explanation concerning basic Christianity can be found here:

Salvation (http://www.bible.org/docs/findgod/find.htm)

God Bless Apple and their fans,

Now you may start flaming! (I'll forgive you anyway
;) )

[hvfsl]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
There have been several studies showing that Mac users are better educated and make more money. There have been several studies showing a correlation between high IQ and better education and lack of religion. It is demographic fact, and the two do correlate. It's not a stretch to suggest that due to convergence between the two demographics, you end up with more nonbelievers using Macs.

As numerous people have said on this thread before, WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS. I can say that there is a lot of evidence that aliens excist, but that does not mean they do excist. A lot of the evidence is just plain made up.

And as one person eariler pointed out, Elstein was Jewish, and he was one of the most inteligent people that have ever lived.

I have met a lot of stupid Mac, PC, religous, non-religous people. This kind of bigotry/stereotyping has lead to some of the worst moments in human history. e.g. Slavery, 911 etc. Given any given group of people, there will always be people of differing abilities, personalities.

[blueflame]

[edited]
ok, sorry, just kidding all. was trying to see how many i could fit.

[mod. edit - Profanity.]

[hvfsl]

Originally posted by matthew24
Normally as a Apple-fan I know that this board is not the right place to talk about my conviction, and refrain to do so, but with this subject I feel compelled to respond.

Some points:

1) I am a born again Christian.
2) I am not offended by Apple.
3) I do love Jesus and the Apple community.
4) I don’t like MS too much.

As I said I am not offended by the slogan, but I am really anxious when non-believers talk that easy about things they do believe are fiction but in reality do exist. There are other spiritual realities like Heaven, God, satan, angels, and demons.
I know that millions of people who persist in their sin and unbelief will never make it into heaven. (This also applies to believers who persist in their sin!)

A link wih the explanation concerning basic Christianity can be found here:

Salvation (http://www.bible.org/docs/findgod/find.htm)

God Bless Apple and their fans,

Now you may start flaming! (I'll forgive you anyway
;) )

I think it is probably about time this thread got deleted. Religous threads always end up with flaming because someone says something like they did at the begining of this thread. You then get a load of people who say stuff like, there was a sciencetist who proved that God does not excist without providing the sources or proof.

[hvfsl]

Originally posted by blueflame
[edited]
ok, sorry, just kidding all. was trying to see how many i could fit.

I normally do not get annoyed in threads, but it is people like you that make a big deal out of nothing. If you dont like Apple removing the word 'Hell', then buy a PC instead. Apple has the right to do what ever it wants, and this time it decided to do what its customers requested (and a major customer at that).

And besides, what I gather it was not a religous reason that the word was removed, but a software blocking issue. Some software would not allow kids to access the Apple site because it blocks out the word 'hell' which is after all a curse word.

[MetallicPenguin]

Okay sorry, I didn't mean for that one "PS" about the Mac and atheist thing to start a commotion.

Oh and this entire discussion is pointless, it's not like Apple's going to put it back up there. But we can all enjoy the announcement stream, it's still on, and I think Steve Jobs actually says "Hell Froze Over."

[hvfsl]

If people really want to get pissed off at how religon is missing up society, look at most of the tall office towers in the UK. Very few of them actually have a 13th floor because of superstition. Canary Wharf in Docklands is an example. They have 12a and 12b. There are then the buildings in Hong Kong that have been destroyed because they are not 'Fen Shay' (I dont know how to spell it).

[blueflame]

lol, i was just playng with the idea. I really could care less if apple removed it for whatever reason that may be.
I saw it, i laughed, that is all that matterd, its gone now, no big ****ING deal!
:-)
ok Peace all
Andreas

[mod. edit - Don't circumvent the profanity filter.]

[Photorun]

You then get a load of people who say stuff like, there was a sciencetist who proved that God does not excist without providing the sources or proof.

Hmmm, yet xtians don't need any (and can never) any proof that there is a god? Kinda hypocritical, dontcha think? And no, the bible isn't proof, it was stories written by a bunch of lead poisoned zealots crammed together 1700 years ago to make one tome of work... it ain't proof. Just like science cannot prove there is no god (though it disproves much of the bible, can't have plants without light, Genesis) xtians can't use their "scientists" to prove their is one.

[lduncan]

Originally posted by hvfsl
If anything Mac users might be dumber than PC users, since Macs are easier to use and so require less brain power.


Yeah because chosing to use a PC which is harder to use and less productive than a Mac is a really intelligent choice! :rolleyes:

Layton

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
That is a bit pathetic, but not all that surprising.....no matter what, you can't please everyone and some are just more annoying and narrow minded than others.

D

Haha really.

BTW, did anyone think of the children when steve was wearing...

wearing...

wearing that Provocative Black Shirt and Jeans.

For the LOVE OF GOD THAT IS INHUMAN!














:rolleyes:


Originally posted by the_mole1314
Lets get some thing straigt:

a.) Every kid in the school system can see this phrase, from kindergardeners on their iMacs to Seniors on their iBooks.

b.) If you had a kid and whenever they start IE or Safari they see "HELL FROZE OVER" and they were young, woutl you let them see it?

c.) It's only a matter of time before parents come to bitch and moan. Look at the parents who are suing to stop their school from using wireless networks because it might have effects on their kids! Idiots!
There is already filtering in 99% of school districts.
a) Yes sure, but you ignore the fact that there is no reason a kindergardener would be
1. On the Internet
2. On Apple.com's website
b) It wasn't a satin worship site, it was for a product that a company made.
So far I haven't seen a product called 'hell'
c) Erm... Many schools have a internet policy 'you can't do _____. You can do __________.
Sign Here ________.

And now I have a question...

Is this picture http://www.bible.org/docs/findgod/find-3.gif Implying that to get the holy god you have to walk on Jesus... :eek:

Errmm... what the hell... :D

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by hvfsl
I have met a lot of stupid Mac, PC, religous, non-religous people. This kind of bigotry/stereotyping has lead to some of the worst moments in human history. e.g. Slavery, 911 etc. Given any given group of people, there will always be people of differing abilities, personalities.

Which is why we should judge individuals as individuals. But that doesn't stop us from studying and noting demographics.

If you want me to find a source for you PM me. This doesn't need to be on the thread.

[the_mole1314]

Every room in elementary school has iMacs. I've seen the kids use them everyday for internet purposes for research. ALL the browsers are locked to prevent a main page change from www.apple.com. All the computers are locked to prevent software installs too.

See what I'm saying? It's not as if it it's when a kid goes online and *THEN* goes to apples site for no reason, they have to go!

Hell is still hell. People still don't like it when it's used in a slang or very causal conversations. It's like saying ****, or ****.

[rufwork]

I believe that about sums it up.

[blueflame]

did you know:

92 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot
:-)
Peace
AK

[autrefois]

Originally posted by edenwaith
I use four-letter words every day. Such as will, then, send, long, term, must, have...even my keyboard is littered with those 4-letter buggers: home, help, page, caps, lock. [/B]

You forgot another important four-letter word on the keyboard--ctrl! :)

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by the_mole1314
Hell is still hell. People still don't like it when it's used in a slang or very causal conversations. It's like saying ****, or ****.

Not unless you're a tightwad.

[mactastic]

Originally posted by MrMacman

b) It wasn't a satin worship site,

Lol....ok, the whole post was funny, but this really made me laugh. I love funny typos. Satin worship indeed.:D

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I loved the "Hell just froze over" caption. It amused me, but really, before too long it will be removed from the front page and replaced by something else and soon forgotten, anyway. Besides, according to Dante, the 9th circle of hell has always been frozen over due to Satan's flapping wings cooling it off to a deep freeze.

It's been a long time since I read the Inferno, but aren't Brutus, Judas, and Bill Gates on that level?

[autrefois]

Originally posted by Sayhey
It's been a long time since I read the Inferno, but aren't Brutus, Judas, and Bill Gates on that level?

http://mannym.8m.net/html/conspiracy.html

Don't know if other people have seen this or not. The first part about ASCII is true (I verified the ASCII codes), but I can't verify if some of the other things mentioned are true, and one or two things seem to be a stretch...

I in no way endorse this site (I guess I should say "for entertainment purposes only"?)--it just came up after a quick Google search based on your post. Funny, tho. :)

[Sayhey]

autrefois,

so you're saying the mark of the beast is "intel inside"? Very interesting! :D

[mproud]

The blocked the Apple sight because they didn't agree with one word.

That is sad.

RIDICULOUS.

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by mproud
The blocked the Apple sight because they didn't agree with one word.

That is sad.

RIDICULOUS.


Way to "think different," ey?

They better hurry up and block www.webster.com too... I heard "hell" and some dirty words were in there...

[Arcady]

I don't mind the word "hell" but I strongly object to the use of the word "Windows" on Apple's site. :D

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by Sol
Well there is a minister called George Pell who jumps up and down when Marilyn Manson comes to town. I do not know about other states but here in QLD the transport minister spends half his day taking down billboards with raunchy content.

Oh, and our prime minister is a right wing A-hole who is stuck in some idealised version of the past.

Adelaide is way to laid back, no shifty transport minister.

But how true you are about Little Johnney,
Entertain this: The Coalition of the willing
1: Toni Blair (Laber)
2: Johnney Boy (Liberal)
3: GWB (Texan Cowboy)
The odd trio in my mind,

[hvfsl]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Which is why we should judge individuals as individuals. But that doesn't stop us from studying and noting demographics.

If you want me to find a source for you PM me. This doesn't need to be on the thread.

Yes it does since others are interested in this source.

[hvfsl]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Not unless you're a tightwad.

What is your problem, no need to give abuse or flame people, where you come from it may be OK to go up to someone and start saying curse words at them, but in most civilised places, people are meant to be polite to each other. I dont go up to people I dont know and say, 'Who the hell are you?'. It is just not done. This was why the word Hell is on the blocking list at many schools and why Apple needed to remove it from their site.

I am going to leave this thread now because you keep on flamering and pissing me off with your stupid comments, not backed up by any evidense. I could quite easily start cursing at you now, but I am not going to stoop to your level.

[Swift]

I can see, if you're relgious, the objection to mild phrases like, "Go to hell," or "Damn you." I mean, it seems like nit-picking, but I can see the nits. But to object to any use of the term, "hell"? So, if a preacher is saying doing x will send you to hell, that's wrong? Or a secular usage of the same word, an ironic jibe like, "Hell froze over"? That's just objecting to a word per se, and that's just a little nuts. I can't even see the nits here.

[Potus]

Originally posted by humantech
That is the most ABSURD thing I have ever heard... " You make outrageous claims- like you invented the question mark!" :-)
.Could someone please post the links to the "studies" that have been done to prove that mac users and "non-believers" are smarter than their christian and pc using counterparts? I need a good laugh--
Honestly--- Because someone is an atheist, they think they have it all figured out.... BTW- I am a dyed in the wool mac user, Apple specialist reseller , paid Mac consultant , digital musician ( using macs of course) and a christian. BTW- We christians DO get to have sex, occasionally curse ( although its not really to classy to do so), drink and enjoy the arts.... ( yes even nudes)--- I'm also quite sure Mensa, Nasa and even more importantly, people who do all manner of real day to day building, designing, engineering, science , etc.. are christian. Albert Einstein himself believed in God. get a clue about reality and stop living in a college 101 philiosophy course - maybe you should practice a little diversity and actually hang out with some christians for a while so you better understand that they to are people with different beliefs from yours.... isnt that what atheism is about- ? Not believing unless you have some proof and facts, or at least use a scientific method to determine that " until proven wrong, there is a strong liklihood that this is correct"?

My 2 cents---
Tech

True.

I've actually met believers who were brilliant and well-educated. I know WinDoze users who have high IQs. I don't think that the fact that I am sceptical or use any particular product means that I'm necessarily any more (or less) intelligent

It was a cool ad... but it's just an ad. I think parents are hyper-sensitive about things which may or may not affect their children. The ad was based on the cliche "I'm prepared to wait for [x] until hell freezes over." In other words, I will not be changed or I have the patience of Job or I will wait until an oxymoron becomes realit. Adlai Stevenson when US ambassador to the UN, questioned the Soviet ambassador on the presence of missiles in Cuba and stated that he was prepared to wait for the answer until "Hell freezes over." As used in the Stevenson statement and in the ad, Hell is a location like Texas or the Antipodes. I think Apple recognized the hypersensitivity (perhaps misplaced) and changed the ad. It's not a big deal.

[mactastic]

Lol, is that the patience of Job or Jobs?

[Mattnh]

Why bother at all, people.
Flaming and throwing mud does not change anything at all and is pretty unfriendly.
A lot of religions seem pretty out-dated by me but there's still a lot of people that are sleeping better with their religion in the back-pack.
Personally I don't get involved with these people too much, aspecially when it comes to discussions. A lot of times it ends in some monologs instead of dialogs. Pretty dumn all together.
I'm just a bit disappointed that people who can't take a joke ('cause that's what the whole 'HELL'-thing was to me) could get Apple to change their funny intro-text/webpage for iTunes.
Comes to show that money (selling eBooks) seems more important to the CEO's than freedom of speech/making funny remarks.
It seems all a bit uptight, better let it rest.
There are more important things out there that can/need be changed with a little positive effort.
Oh no, a kernel-panic.
Sorry, gots to go ;)

[Sayhey]

If Apple changed it website so that filters from schools wouldn't block access of students to the site, that makes sense to me. What I don't understand is why those filters would stop the access to sites that use the word "hell." Don't we expect students to know and be able to explore what this word means? Seems like another case of the morality police run amok.

[mrsebastian]

just for fun they should have replaced headline with "holy ******". now that would have been funny :D

[iPC]

I was not offended by the reference. I did find it a bit childish however.

[Potus]

Originally posted by mactastic
Lol, is that the patience of Job or Jobs?

I wish I'd been quick enough to pick up on that...:)

[bcsimac]

Your real(ie reality) is not necessarily my real (ie reality). I personally limit the content that I watch. Personally, I don't want my kids saying hell unless it is in reference to what the Bible says or preaching a sermon or telling someone about salvation. I think keeping cuss words from kids is hard enough for parents...why should we make it any harder for them. People from the south do think differently than people from the north and west and east. They have as much right to think and feel the way they do about things as you do. Just for your references, I am a northerner who married a southerner and now lives in the heart of the Mid-South.....so I have some concept of what people here think. Personally, I think in general we have a huge problem with kids who are exposed to too much violence, rudeness, fowl language, impatience, unkindness, and purely bad behavior. I think we need to protection our younger children as much as we can and let them be what they are.....children.....not adults. We are trying to make kids grow up too fast. Let kids have their innocence. Yes, I agree that it was a good advertising and marketing joke. I was very much amused by it. However, I do think it is not appropriate for young children. By the way, I know of many of my Christian Mac using friends who have their kids on Macs as soon as they can crawl and hold a mouse. Would you want a 18 month old seeing that kind of language? I wouldn't. Anyway, it was an ingenious marketing ad; but bad in taste considering that Apple does have a big market in education.

P.S. "the truth" is not necessarily "the truth" it depends on culture and perspective. One other thing, I am a Christian Mac User.

Originally posted by rockman2023
HAHAHAHAHAHA, NIICE, HAHAHAHA, I LOVE THAT :D

What I'm not to thirilled about though is how society tries to "protect" children from "the truth", candy-coating everything. Sooner or later, they'll be exposed to reality. Just look at TV, plenty of violence on there. What about cartoons?? Whatever, i could give two flying pieces of rat *****.

That picture is priceless, HAHAHAHAHAHA

[sethypoo]

If someone purchased 23,000 widgits from me, I'd sure listen to them afterwards!

:) :rolleyes: :D

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by bcsimac
Your real(ie reality) is not necessarily my real (ie reality). I personally limit the content that I watch. Personally, I don't want my kids saying hell unless it is in reference to what the Bible says or preaching a sermon or telling someone about salvation. I think keeping cuss words from kids is hard enough for parents...why should we make it any harder for them. People from the south do think differently than people from the north and west and east. They have as much right to think and feel the way they do about things as you do. Just for your references, I am a northerner who married a southerner and now lives in the heart of the Mid-South.....so I have some concept of what people here think. Personally, I think in general we have a huge problem with kids who are exposed to too much violence, rudeness, fowl language, impatience, unkindness, and purely bad behavior. I think we need to protection our younger children as much as we can and let them be what they are.....children.....not adults. We are trying to make kids grow up too fast. Let kids have their innocence. Yes, I agree that it was a good advertising and marketing joke. I was very much amused by it. However, I do think it is not appropriate for young children. By the way, I know of many of my Christian Mac using friends who have their kids on Macs as soon as they can crawl and hold a mouse. Would you want a 18 month old seeing that kind of language? I wouldn't. Anyway, it was an ingenious marketing ad; but bad in taste considering that Apple does have a big market in education.

P.S. "the truth" is not necessarily "the truth" it depends on culture and perspective. One other thing, I am a Christian Mac User.

Amen to that, I too am a Christian Mac User.

[Sayhey]

Originally posted by bcsimac
Your real(ie reality) is not necessarily my real (ie reality). I personally limit the content that I watch. Personally, I don't want my kids saying hell unless it is in reference to what the Bible says or preaching a sermon or telling someone about salvation. I think keeping cuss words from kids is hard enough for parents...why should we make it any harder for them. People from the south do think differently than people from the north and west and east. They have as much right to think and feel the way they do about things as you do. Just for your references, I am a northerner who married a southerner and now lives in the heart of the Mid-South.....so I have some concept of what people here think. Personally, I think in general we have a huge problem with kids who are exposed to too much violence, rudeness, fowl language, impatience, unkindness, and purely bad behavior. I think we need to protection our younger children as much as we can and let them be what they are.....children.....not adults. We are trying to make kids grow up too fast. Let kids have their innocence. Yes, I agree that it was a good advertising and marketing joke. I was very much amused by it. However, I do think it is not appropriate for young children. By the way, I know of many of my Christian Mac using friends who have their kids on Macs as soon as they can crawl and hold a mouse. Would you want a 18 month old seeing that kind of language? I wouldn't. Anyway, it was an ingenious marketing ad; but bad in taste considering that Apple does have a big market in education.

P.S. "the truth" is not necessarily "the truth" it depends on culture and perspective. One other thing, I am a Christian Mac User.

First, if a 18 month old can read the word "hell" or any other word, then we need to know who they are for observation as child prodigies. I know I couldn't read at that age and my kids or anyone else I've every heard of couldn't either.

I agree, however, that you have every right to not look at or not allow your children to look at sites that offend you. What I don't understand is why your standards should determine what I can look at or what my children can view. Isn't it your responsibility to make those decisions with your family and mine with my family?

I really don't have a problem if the South is more straight laced than other regions of the country, I just don't want every region forced to adopt Mississippi morals. My own view is that it is a profound waste of time to concentrate on keeping children uninformed when we should be letting them know our viewpoints on challenging moral questions early on so they can make good choices later. Just my opinion.

[Potus]

Originally posted by Sayhey
...
I really don't have a problem if the South is more straight laced than other regions of the country, I just don't want every region forced to adopt Mississippi morals. My own view is that it is a profound waste of time to concentrate on keeping children uninformed when we should be letting them know our viewpoints on challenging moral questions early on so they can make good choices later. Just my opinion.

What you probably really don't want is the lack of educational achievement, rate of high school graduation, number of children and adults without health insurance, average wage, or poor air quality that characterizes Mississippi and other Southern states. Alabama hates taxes and it's poor showing on just about every quality of life index shows it.