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View Full Version : HP 2133 UMPC: What the MacBook Air should have been.




kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 11:07 AM
If the MacBook Air has been in this device's category, then I'd have been behind it, and probably well on my way to returning to the Mac community (started leaving in September, when I was forced to choose between a Nokia N800 and an iPhone/iTouch, and correctly decided the Nokia was a better choice).

HP 2133 UMPC (http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/19/hps-umpc-2133-revealed/)

It's HP's competitor for the EeePC, but it has a few advantages over the EeePC:

1) bluetooth
2) SSD storage option
3) express card slot

With #1 (with bluetooth FTP) and #2, I can use it as an in-backpack file server for my Nokia N810 (upgraded in November). With the wifi in access-point mode, and with a WWAN card in the express card slot, I can use it as a personal wireless gateway for my N810. And then I can use it directly for those few cases where I really need a bigger device than my N810 (which pretty much only means "when I run OpenOffice and Thunderbird"... I do just about everything else, quite successfully, on my N810).

The other big surprise is: HP will directly distribute Linux on the device. Hopefully ubuntu or kubuntu.

If they keep the price under $500 I'll be there the first month. Unless Apple enters this market (EeePC sized "mini-laptop", with bluetooth FTP, 1.8" or 2.x" HDD and SDD storage options, micro-dvi out and USB for using it as a light desktop, and an express card slot, base unit priced around $500) before I buy the HP. Then I'd gladly have the Apple instead.

But this will probably be Apple's last chance to keep me from completely leaving them behind. I haven't found that I've lost anything significant by switching to Firefox, Thunderbird, etc. ... the latest Linux GUI's (ubuntu and kde) are at the point of being "good enough to not offend me", the price points are cheaper, and you don't have to deal with draconian "obey or we'll brick your device" tactics.

Yeah, yeah, none of you will miss me (I'm sure none of you even remember any of my few posts here; and I expect a few "don't let the door smack in hte ass" type comments). I don't expect any tears. Just saying: Apple's losing the things that made them an advantage 7 years ago, without having replaced those things with anything compelling in the mean time. This device is probably the final nail in that coffin, as far as I'm concerned.



ahaxton
Feb 19, 2008, 11:31 AM
Who needs a playskool laptop?

Most of us I think want portables that don't sacrifice practically everything there is. All those short and stumpy, tiny screens, tiny keyboards, cheap plastic, tiny specs is not useful at all. Looks more like something you'd keep on your kitchen counter.

Airforce
Feb 19, 2008, 11:34 AM
Most of us I think want portables that don't sacrifice practically everything there is.

Are we talking about the Macbook Air here or...? :p

mashinhead
Feb 19, 2008, 11:36 AM
agreed about the playskool laptop. that asus eee pc has 2 gb of storage... what can you do with that? it can't really do anything the iphone can't . the iphone is better than that and in some ways is their entry into that market. Anyway i think it would be interesting to see apple enter this market too, but really i dont think it will happen for at least a year. apple does a lot of research, the market is new and they will see how it performs before thinking about entering it.

Evangelion
Feb 19, 2008, 11:39 AM
You know, that seems like a VERY interesting laptop! I have been thinking of getting the EEE or something similar, since deep down I have always liked Linux :). That device would fit the bill perfectly, especially if they keep the price down.

Airforce
Feb 19, 2008, 11:40 AM
it can't really do anything the iphone can't . the iphone is better than that

Flash websites :)

Evangelion
Feb 19, 2008, 11:44 AM
agreed about the playskool laptop. that asus eee pc has 2 gb of storage... what can you do with that?

I think there are different storage-options available... And you can do plenty with 2GB. If you keep the limitations in mind, the device can be VERY useful.

it can't really do anything the iphone can't.

Spreadsheets, word-processing, portable recording studio (that's how Scott Bourne uses his EEE)...

I have iPod touch and I absolutely adore that device. And I cant wait to get my hands on some of those apps that are going to be released. But I still do not think that iPhone/touch can be a 1:1 substitute for a proper computer. It can supplement it, but it can't really replace it 100%.

kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 11:46 AM
agreed about the playskool laptop. that asus eee pc has 2 gb of storage...

With the EeePC, you're right. Too little storage, no real expansion capability.

With the HP 2133, you've got an express card, and an SSD capability (which I expect to give you a LOT more room than 2GB of storage), and video-out (pretty sure the EeePC doesn't have video out, could be wrong).

As for the tiny screen: in my life, having had a few laptops, I have found that I don't need a 13"-15" screen (and a 17" laptop is just inane, IMO). When I'm mobile, I'm actually 90% fine with my Nokia N810's 5" screen. An 8" screen would be just fine for the things I'd do when mobile.

When I'm not mobile, I'd rather use an external display than a 15" or smaller screen.

When you look at it like that, all laptop screens are in the "playskool" category.

Really, for me, this category of device is more like an "in-backpack" file server and airport-base-station for my N810 (or iPhone/iTouch, if you prefer, and if the iTouch didn't have a glaring feature hole in the lack of bluetooth FTP). I only intend to use it directly when I have to do something that really can't be done on the 5" screen. And 90% of that I expect to do on an external monitor or screen projector.

In that regard, it'll probably replace my igloo iMac, as well.

elppa
Feb 19, 2008, 12:03 PM
Well it's quite a nice little toy computer for basic web browsing. Whether it will catch on as well as the EeePC remains to be seen.

Most bags that can fit this in (and it's hardly going to go in your pocket :eek:) will also comfortably hold the Air, so I can't really see the point. I also doubt it's packing a 64bit Core 2 Duo in that case either.

On the flip side, it does look like it has ethernet and will probably be cheaper, although I don't think it is targeted at the same demographic as the Air.

kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 12:44 PM
Well it's quite a nice little toy computer for basic web browsing. Whether it will catch on as well as the EeePC remains to be seen.

Email, web stuff (problem ticket tracking, oracle calendar, editing wiki documentation, etc.), IM, and coding in terminal windows is 90% of what I do on the computer for work. And this device should do all of that nicely. "nice little toy" == machine for real work.

Most bags that can fit this in (and it's hardly going to go in your pocket) will also comfortably hold the Air, so I can't really see the point.

I don't expect it to fit in my pocket, that's that my N810 is for :-) ... and I've found a few bags that are too small for the Air, but would fit this (or an EeePC) just fine. Especially the Maxpedition "Fat Boy", "Jumbo", "Manta", and "Colossus" bags. (I have the "Fat Boy") Too small for a laptop. Just fine for a MID/UMPC. Just right for me.

I also doubt it's packing a 64bit Core 2 Duo in that case either.

Who needs a 64bit core 2 duo _laptop_? It's nice, certainly, lord knows I wanted a multi-processing laptop for many many years ... but necessary? For the things I listed above, a 32 bit single core is plenty powerful enough.

although I don't think it is targeted at the same demographic as the Air.

Definitely not. And I'll refrain from making derogatory comments (that favor the UMPC users, and degrade the Air users) about it.

Honestly, I really would rather have an Apple entry into this market space. Call it a "MacBook Mini" even. But, having a device in this market space is more important to me than having another device from Apple.

ahaxton
Feb 19, 2008, 12:46 PM
Well it's quite a nice little toy computer for basic web browsing. Whether it will catch on as well as the EeePC remains to be seen.

Most bags that can fit this in (and it's hardly going to go in your pocket :eek:) will also comfortably hold the Air, so I can't really see the point. I also doubt it's packing a 64bit Core 2 Duo in that case either.

On the flip side, it does look like it has ethernet and will probably be cheaper, although I don't think it is targeted at the same demographic as the Air.

Air is the only one in its class. I needed a laptop thats very portable, but also fully functional. I haven't used a desktop since I got my Air.

Cybergypsy
Feb 19, 2008, 12:49 PM
you have to be kidding, I cant even stand to look at that thing!

diabolic
Feb 19, 2008, 01:03 PM
If the Air would have been this size, I wouldn't have bought one. It would have crossed my personal comfort and usability threshold by being too small.

mashoutposse
Feb 19, 2008, 01:08 PM
I've used numerous ultraportables -- that screen is way too small for a device with a serious keyboard.

Devices like the iPhone and your N810 work because they are designed to be held much closer to your face than an actual laptop.

While you may bring this kind of laptop with you everywhere, once you take it out of your bag, set it on a desk/lap, and start USING it, you'll be wishing for something much more friendly to use. Ironically, you'll then stop bringing it with you everywhere. I've owned laptops in this size class since 2003 -- this is the reality of ownership.

I don't expect it to fit in my pocket, that's that my N810 is for :-) ... and I've found a few bags that are too small for the Air, but would fit this (or an EeePC) just fine. Especially the Maxpedition "Fat Boy", "Jumbo", "Manta", and "Colossus" bags. (I have the "Fat Boy") Too small for a laptop. Just fine for a MID/UMPC. Just right for me.


We're not going hunting :p Most people need a bag that can actually fit a standard folder or piece of paper without having to fold it. The great thing about the MBA form factor is that it can fit in practically any bag that can hold those things.

macsensei
Feb 19, 2008, 01:19 PM
ummmm...whats the word? oh yeah UGLY.

elppa
Feb 19, 2008, 01:38 PM
We're not going hunting :p Most people need a bag that can actually fit a standard folder or piece of paper without having to fold it. The great thing about the MBA form factor is that it can fit in practically any bag that can hold those things.

I was thinking of a regular backpack/holdall/briefcase when I wrote my original piece!

kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 01:39 PM
you have to be kidding, I cant even stand to look at that thing!

Obviously if it had been done by Apple it would have been more aesthetically pleasing. The functional aspects (size, features, capabilities) are what I'm talking about, not the fashionable ones.

miniConvert
Feb 19, 2008, 01:42 PM
Wow, that thing looks so small that I could type on it with one hand. And only one hand.

The Air is an awesome machine and I think it'll be very popular. Would I like to see Apple create something smaller still? Yes. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't have made the Air.

TatsuTerror
Feb 19, 2008, 01:42 PM
And why should the MBA be this?

Name three places you can take this but not an MBA.

kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 01:43 PM
We're not going hunting

You can also find bags in that size range from Tom Bihn (messenger type bags, not hunting/military focused), and some other vendors. The point is, lots of people have no need to carry something as garishly large as a 12" or 13" laptop.

Most people need a bag that can actually fit a standard folder or piece of paper without having to fold it.

Not in my observation of "most people". And I work at a university, where "paper" is important. And my observation also holds for the tech industry (I'm not far from silicon valley).

Most people don't want to carry paper, nor paper-sized stuff, if they don't have to.

kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 01:47 PM
And why should the MBA be this?

Because it's an actually useful product space, as opposed to the MBA which is ... just a thin macbook. Look at how poorly the ultra-thin laptops have done in the past. Look at how well the EeePC is doing now (and how many imitators, like the Cloudbook, are coming out).

Name three places you can take this but not an MBA.

Name three places I'd rather take an MBA than something this size.

The answer is: there aren't ANY places I'd want to take an MBA sized device. The 12"-17" laptop is about to go the way of the dinosaur.

Cybergypsy
Feb 19, 2008, 01:51 PM
Obviously if it had been done by Apple it would have been more aesthetically pleasing. The functional aspects (size, features, capabilities) are what I'm talking about, not the fashionable ones.For me the size is too small this is perfect for me.....

Whorehay
Feb 19, 2008, 01:53 PM
I dunno. I kinda like the way it looks. I guess I am the minority.

cedar
Feb 19, 2008, 02:14 PM
Because it's an actually useful product space, as opposed to the MBA which is ... just a thin macbook. Look at how poorly the ultra-thin laptops have done in the past. Look at how well the EeePC is doing now (and how many imitators, like the Cloudbook, are coming out).



Name three places I'd rather take an MBA than something this size.

The answer is: there aren't ANY places I'd want to take an MBA sized device. The 12"-17" laptop is about to go the way of the dinosaur.

Not to those interesting in retaining their eyesight and enjoy typing something with normal size fingers. But maybe you foresee a future population of dwarf cyclops.

kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 02:22 PM
Not to those interesting in retaining their eyesight and enjoy typing something with normal size fingers. But maybe you foresee a future population of dwarf cyclops.

I have large fingers, and wear glasses. And I do fine for average stuff on a 5" device. When I need more than that, I use external devices. Just like when I used to use a laptop for that kinda stuff.

Just like what will happen when the laptop goes the way of the dodo.

kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 02:25 PM
I've used numerous ultraportables -- that screen is way too small for a device with a serious keyboard.

Devices like the iPhone and your N810 work because they are designed to be held much closer to your face than an actual laptop.

While you may bring this kind of laptop with you everywhere, once you take it out of your bag, set it on a desk/lap, and start USING it, you'll be wishing for something much more friendly to use. Ironically, you'll then stop bringing it with you everywhere. I've owned laptops in this size class since 2003 -- this is the reality of ownership.

When I need to type a lot, I'll use the same folding bluetooth keyboard I use with my N810 (when I want to do a lot of typing on it). And when I need a bigger display, I'll use an external display.

Really, full size laptops == dinosaurs

cedar
Feb 19, 2008, 02:31 PM
When I need to type a lot, I'll use the same folding bluetooth keyboard I use with my N810 (when I want to do a lot of typing on it). And when I need a bigger display, I'll use an external display.

Really, full size laptops == dinosaurs


So, you lug all of those accessories around when you need them? Sort of limits the portability doesn't it? I would rather have a machine with the features built in, with complete portability. But to each his own.

netdog
Feb 19, 2008, 02:32 PM
For so many reasons, I am so glad that the Air is nothing like this...

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/02/hp-2133picture-119feb08-440.jpg

kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 02:45 PM
So, you lug all of those accessories around when you need them? Sort of limits the portability doesn't it? I would rather have a machine with the features built in, with complete portability. But to each his own.

The bag* I carry it in is smaller than any laptop bag I've ever carried. Its footprint is _smaller_ than the 8.5x11 envelope that the Air commercials show (thicker, but that's not a problem: the main compartment is 6x8.5x3). And the accessories (power cords, etc.) all boil down to a breeze to carry.

That's with the N810, the folding bluetooth keyboard, and my phone. Adding something the size of the EeePC/HP-2133 wouldn't be a problem for size or weight. When compared to the laptop bag I used to have to carry for my apple laptop, and that I'd still have to use in order to carry the MBA if I had one, it's no contest. Even if it was just the Tom Bihn "braincell" (reinforced laptop compartment + 1 side pocket), that's still too large and awkward. The fact that the MBA is thin and light doesn't make up for the fact that you're going to put it in a bag (which will weigh more than the laptop if it's anything other than a non-protective sleeve), and the 8.5x11 footprint is still awkward to carry (and it's still the identical footprint of the macbook).


(* as I already pointed out: the Maxpedition "Fat Boy", which is their smallest messenger type bag (versipack, they call it); really, I'm just one step up from having a utility belt, and all of the freedom and flexibility that goes with that carry size/format/weight/etc. ... there's no way I'll ever go back to lugging around a full size laptop)

profiteor
Feb 19, 2008, 03:03 PM
The thing looks interesting, in a good way; it may not be Apple-designed but I think it has some potential. It's expandable, from the sounds of it, and it doesn't seem too woefully underpowered on paper. Honestly, sounds like a mid-90's PowerBook from days gone by. :) (Aside -- I've been resurrecting a 190cs and I've been incredibly pleased and amazed at every turn of the way, thank you drive bays, SCSI and PCMCIA slots!)

If they're affordable, this Air owner might look at one, for grins. Not unhappy with the Air, but interested in seeing how UMPCs are. I think it's a different market than the Air's meant for.

netdog
Feb 19, 2008, 03:13 PM
And why should the MBA be this?

Name three places you can take this but not an MBA.


Back to the place you bought it.
To the nearest dumpster.
To the store for tiny-handed munchkins, hobbits and elves.


So there! ;)

I don't want to browse on a screen this size.

I certainly don't want to write on a screen this size.

I don't want to type on such a stupidly small keyboard.

So what the hell is it good for?

There is a reason that UMPCs haven't caught on outside of gadget-crazy Japan. That reason is that they kind of suck. The Air did a really nice job at providing a much better vision of what a lightweight computer's form should be. Every manufacturer will follow Apple's lead soon.

ahaxton
Feb 19, 2008, 03:43 PM
I would not be able to survive with a machine like this. I'd have to bring a whole other laptop lol. Thankfully the MBA is super portable, but is useful for my needs day and night.

netdog
Feb 19, 2008, 03:44 PM
I would not be able to survive with a machine like this. I'd have to bring a whole other laptop lol. Thankfully the MBA is super portable, but is useful for my needs day and night.

Ditto.

erickzig
Feb 19, 2008, 04:16 PM
I think you all are forgetting an important aspect of the MBA vs. Eee debate. Price. $400 vs $1800. You can't really compare the two even though people love to do it. Personally, I would love an Air but since I already have a 17" MBP and a desktop PC, that would be silly. I need a small UMPC that I can throw in my small bag (or man-purse as my firends call it) and take with me everywhere. I need it only to write my scripts/stories and to maybe surf the web. The Eee and the HP would be perfect. The HP might actually be too big for me since it has all that space around the screen. I like the Air and would like to buy one. Hell, I'll even buy a bigger man-purse to fit it in there but I'm not going to spend $1800 for something I will use just to write a few scripts on while I ride the train to work... Maybe if I sell one of them for a million bucks... :D

weckart
Feb 19, 2008, 04:26 PM
So what the hell is it good for?

There is a reason that UMPCs haven't caught on outside of gadget-crazy Japan. That reason is that they kind of suck. The Air did a really nice job at providing a much better vision of what a lightweight computer's form should be. Every manufacturer will follow Apple's lead soon.

There is so much wrong in that last paragraph. You cannot get hold of an eeePC at the moment as demand is outstripping supply, and whatever supplies are available are selling at a premium over their RRP. So much for UMPCs not catching on. People just do not want to spend thousands for a laptop any more. As for Apple's vision - it's just retreading the same waters already trodden by the likes of Sony and Mitsubishi all those years ago.

If HP gets the battery life and price right, this thing will fly off the shelves. There's already a proven market for this.

As for the small screen - people are writing articles and coding on those smaller 7" ASUS screens at this moment. And happily so. Not everyone is cursed with the eyesight of Mr Magoo.

whateverandever
Feb 19, 2008, 04:34 PM
Email, web stuff (problem ticket tracking, oracle calendar, editing wiki documentation, etc.), IM, and coding in terminal windows is 90% of what I do on the computer for work. And this device should do all of that nicely. "nice little toy" == machine for real work.

The fact that you're a shell user proves you have no concept of what the industry at large (and society in general) uses or wants.

netdog
Feb 19, 2008, 04:38 PM
There is so much wrong in that last paragraph. You cannot get hold of an eeePC at the moment as demand is outstripping supply, and whatever supplies are available are selling at a premium over their RRP. So much for UMPCs not catching on. People just do not want to spend thousands for a laptop any more. As for Apple's vision - it's just retreading the same waters already trodden by the likes of Sony and Mitsubishi all those years ago.

If HP gets the battery life and price right, this thing will fly off the shelves. There's already a proven market for this.

As for the small screen - people are writing articles and coding on those smaller 7" ASUS screens at this moment. And happily so. Not everyone is cursed with the eyesight of Mr Magoo.

Sorry, but I think once most people try these, they are going to agree with Mossberg and Jobs that the keyboards are too small to type on and that the tiny displays force you to be constantly scrolling to get anything done, all with too little text on the screen at any given time, and then I think these beasts that may be temporarily flying off the shelves will soon find themselves instead gathering dust there.

If these multitudes are currently coding on 7" screens, they will also soon be Mr. Magoo.

Whorehay
Feb 19, 2008, 04:46 PM
Sorry, but I think once most people try these, they are going to agree with Mossberg and Jobs that the keyboards are too small to type on and that the tiny displays force you to be constantly scrolling to get anything done, all with too little text on the screen at any given time, and then I think these beasts that may be temporarily flying off the shelves will soon find themselves instead gathering dust there.

If these multitudes are currently coding on 7" screens, they will also soon be Mr. Magoo.

It's not a very high resolution screen though.

Some people might get tired of it, as I think I might if I ever got one, but there's something about having a cheap, ultraportable machine that you can just take anywhere and beat around.

netdog
Feb 19, 2008, 04:48 PM
It's not a very high resolution screen though.

Some people might get tired of it, as I think I might if I ever got one, but there's something about having a cheap, ultraportable machine that you can just take anywhere and beat around.

There's something about it until you use one. This is not the next iPod in terms of market impact.


(comments not directed at you, Whorehay)

roland.g
Feb 19, 2008, 05:02 PM
Really that isn't awful looking. But I only saw Windows and Linux as the choices. No OS X. Hmm.:rolleyes: Think I like the MBA. At some poiunt I don't really want the screen too small. I do still need real estate, just not weight. And our 12" PB feels a bit on the small side. So I'll take 13.3 over 8.9. Thanx.

queshy
Feb 19, 2008, 05:51 PM
It looks nice, but the average person would be way less productive on that thing. Why? Look how small the kb and touchpad is. Interestingly, the air has a more comfortable keyboard than most 15" laptops I know of (and ALL laptops smaller, too, although it does rival the thinkpads'). It also has a much bigger touchpad. Big touchpad + big screen + big keyboard = more productivity

The HP looks like a great machine but it makes too many compromises for me, though i'm sure a lot of people will be attracted to it for obvious reasons.

gonyr
Feb 19, 2008, 06:15 PM
It's not necessarily what the Air should have been, but it's definitely a lot like what I had hoped it was going to be. Thin doesn't matter nearly as much to me as footprint does, and since I rarely use a laptop at a distance greater than about 24 inches, the screen size should be fine. As long as it's not woefully underpowered like the EEE, and comes in at a decent price, it will be something I seriously consider purchasing.

Hopefully Apple is paying attention to products like this. I'd love to replace my ibook with a more powerful, but smaller machine, and I really want to stick with OSX. I want my macbook mini.

weckart
Feb 19, 2008, 06:29 PM
Sorry, but I think once most people try these, they are going to agree with Mossberg and Jobs that the keyboards are too small to type on and that the tiny displays force you to be constantly scrolling to get anything done, all with too little text on the screen at any given time, and then I think these beasts that may be temporarily flying off the shelves will soon find themselves instead gathering dust there.

If these multitudes are currently coding on 7" screens, they will also soon be Mr. Magoo.

The resolution of the HP2133 is 1386x768, which compares favourably with that of the Macbook. You will scroll less, as you can squeeze more lengthways. So, no to that argument. That keyboard is about the same size as the Macbook's. Notice the dead space on the Macbook around the keyboard? That is what you are giving up there. Not much use for actual typing.

Don't forget, Apple is selling the iPhone/iPod Touch on the basis that you can surf the web on those displays as well as any laptop, so I doubt that Jobs belongs in any argument that small is impractical.

kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 08:54 PM
It's not necessarily what the Air should have been, but it's definitely a lot like what I had hoped it was going to be.

Yes, and that's really what I was getting at. The potential of the pre-show hype that they were coming out with an ultra-portable design made think Apple was going to do something useful, like release something in the EeePC, OXO, or MID category. Instead, what they gave us was "ho hum", in my opinion.

Thin doesn't matter nearly as much to me as footprint does, and since I rarely use a laptop at a distance greater than about 24 inches, the screen size should be fine.

Yup, and with its resolution, you can still get a good visual experience while getting closer to it (like you're intended to on an iPhone or Nokia N8x0). Not ideal, but good enough on the road. And when you get to a destination, you're just as good as with any laptop: you hook it up to a real display, a real keyboard, and a mouse.

As long as it's not woefully underpowered like the EEE, and comes in at a decent price, it will be something I seriously consider purchasing.

Hopefully Apple is paying attention to products like this. I'd love to replace my ibook with a more powerful, but smaller machine, and I really want to stick with OSX. I want my macbook mini.

Yup. If Apple enters this market before I'm able to snatch up the Linux version of the HP, I'll get the Apple version. I'd like to have ANY excuse from Apple to stay on their platforms. But, since the draconian iPhone debacle in Sept, the dreadful lack of no-brainer features on the iTouch (bluetooth, the same apps that were on the iPhone, from day one instead of 6 months later for an extra fee), I've been steadily grown more disillusioned by Apple.

In the last year, I've moved from Apple Mail (was my favorite mail client since 1990 when I started using Nextstep, but the last few years it had more and more feature problems) to Thunderbird, from Safari to Firefox (again, too many mis-features and missing features on Safari), and when I got my N800, I saw that the Linux community had finally "gotten it" with respect to GUI quality. So why WOULDN'T I go to a Linux UMPC if Apple isn't going to get their crap in order?

But, if Apple doesn't show me that there's still some actual interesting things going on over there (and, no, the iPhone, iTouch, and MBA don't qualify, in my book), then I'll be going with the Linux version of the HP UMPC when it comes out.

kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 09:09 PM
Hopefully Apple is paying attention to products like this. I'd love to replace my ibook with a more powerful, but smaller machine, and I really want to stick with OSX. I want my macbook mini.

Actually, what I would probably really like to see, rather than a tiny-laptop format from Apple, is a tablet that has a virtual split thumb keyboard. The Samsung UMPC originally had a virtual split thumb keyboard instead of the split real thumb keyboard. As you held the sides, and you needed to type, translucent overlay keys for the left and right thumbs appeared in the upper left and upper right corners of the display.

Then give it a removable fold under cover, that protects the screen, can be held flush against the back when holding it like a tablet, or used as a kickstand when at a desk (fold under == as you hold the sides, the cover folds under the bottom edge, not over the top; you'll see why when I get to the WWAN). 2 or 3 USB ports, micro-DVI out, audio out, power, wifi, express card slot, and bluetooth (DUN, PAN, FTP, real HDI and SPP to use any bluetooth keyboard, not just certain bluetooth keyboards) ... and _maybe_ a WWAN capability (or place the express card slot in a way that it doesn't get in the way of your hands when you hold the sides of the screen; so maybe it's on the top edge; if not that, then make sure the iPhone can share its WWAN with the device, either via wifi or bluetooth). I might also give it one or two full size SDHC card slots (it's really a staple among the UMPC and MID families to have some form of SD card, and doing it via USB is actually kind of annoying). Give it a screen around 8". No optical disk.

Typing on the go: virtual thumb keyboard.
Typing at a random table: bluetooth keyboard
Typing at your desk: USB keyboard

Let it do the same things for an optical drive that a MBA does (the one and only thing that I liked about the MBA is it's ability to "borrow" the optical drive of your desktop computer).

The reason the fold under cover is removable: let 3rd parties make keyboard replacements for the cover.

I think that's what I'd really want with a Mac based UMPC.

In the "2nd generation wishlist" I said a twist-screen laptop/tablet format, but I think that's actually slightly clunky. I'd prefer an actual tablet, like the virtual keyboard oriented Samsung (O2?) UMPC.

kanon14
Feb 19, 2008, 09:43 PM
I'm glad the MAB is what it is now. This HP is does look good but I use my MBA as my main work machine at school (i'm a teacher) so I don't want the screen to be that small (I don't have space to put another monitor on my desk)

QCassidy352
Feb 19, 2008, 10:47 PM
But I still do not think that iPhone/touch can be a 1:1 substitute for a proper computer. It can supplement it, but it can't really replace it 100%.

Ditto this little HP monstrosity. It certainly does not qualify as a "proper computer" at that size. With .5 lb more you get a fully functional, real computer in the MBA. In short, this thing is a toy. Thank god apple made an actually useful ultraportable. (yes, I'm aware that some of you think portability is defined by footprint, but I strenuously disagree. Weight is what matters.)

kzin
Feb 19, 2008, 11:14 PM
Ditto this little HP monstrosity. It certainly does not qualify as a "proper computer" at that size. With .5 lb more you get a fully functional, real computer in the MBA. In short, this thing is a toy. Thank god apple made an actually useful ultraportable. (yes, I'm aware that some of you think portability is defined by footprint, but I strenuously disagree. Weight is what matters.)

Weight mattered when you're talking about luggables vs heavy laptops. When it comes down to these devices, weight is like arguing over the weight of a sheet of paper vs a feather. It doesn't matter.

Footprint makes a huge amount of difference.

Good thing I can pay 1/3 as much money for my toys as you do for your "real/proper computers", and yet do heavy lifting real work on them. I feel sorry for your accountant, having to keep track of all of the money you waste.

netdog
Feb 20, 2008, 08:59 AM
The resolution of the HP2133 is 1386x768, which compares favourably with that of the Macbook. You will scroll less, as you can squeeze more lengthways. So, no to that argument. That keyboard is about the same size as the Macbook's. Notice the dead space on the Macbook around the keyboard? That is what you are giving up there. Not much use for actual typing.

Try them side by side. The keyboard and display size will not compare at all.

Don't forget, Apple is selling the iPhone/iPod Touch on the basis that you can surf the web on those displays as well as any laptop, so I doubt that Jobs belongs in any argument that small is impractical.

The Touch and iPhone have touch screens and limited functionality that is more appropriate to the size. Browsing on the go on one is useful and yet does not compare to browsing on a screen 13.3" or larger.

As for Jobs, he clearly stated that Apple found the smaller displays and smaller keyboards to be trade-offs that were unwise, hence the size of the display and keyboard of the Air which he sees as a big advantage. I'd rather have my screen and keyboard, all at 3lbs in a wafer thin unit than this UMPC with a small keyboard, small display and chunky build. Then again, you may want exactly that.

As for Apple, they clearly don't, and hence they didn't introduce one, but went the way of the Air. Soon, all PC makers will follow suit and the UMPC will continue to be nothing more than a minor niche product.

Airforce
Feb 20, 2008, 09:12 AM
This thing is still missing one thing I couldn't live without:

A cd/dvd drive.

The Macbook Air needs one and so does this sucker to be on my list of useful..... :rolleyes:

Roba
Feb 20, 2008, 09:51 AM
I think that that notebook looks good. I think it would have been more ideal if Apple made something like this and also made a 12-13inch Pro notebook that was fully functional and not lacking in some key features like the MBA is.

Apple could have based this ultraportable UMPC on the iPhone. I could see how something like that would work.

QCassidy352
Feb 20, 2008, 10:00 AM
Weight mattered when you're talking about luggables vs heavy laptops. When it comes down to these devices, weight is like arguing over the weight of a sheet of paper vs a feather. It doesn't matter.

Footprint makes a huge amount of difference.

What do you mean by "these devices?" The HP vs. the air? Or one of them vs a macbook (pro)? Because IMO the weight difference between this or the air and a macbook (pro) is large and significant.

Footprint makes ZERO difference to me. Tell me one place I could use this POS HP that I couldn't use an air because of the footprint difference.

Good thing I can pay 1/3 as much money for my toys as you do for your "real/proper computers", and yet do heavy lifting real work on them. I feel sorry for your accountant, having to keep track of all of the money you waste.

Oh I'm sorry, did I say I had a MBA? No... I have a core duo macbook. But if I did need an ultra-portable this thing would never be an option.

And given that you could almost certainly be doing your "heavy lifting real work" on an old centrino PC laptop that would cost about $200 bucks at this point, I guess you're "wasting money" too, right?

notjustjay
Feb 20, 2008, 10:14 AM
I'm very interested to see how things play out with the HP2133, but I think the OP's speculated price of $500-ish is very unrealistic, unless someone can tell me otherwise.

I used to be a big gadget freak and would hop at chances to play with Windows CE devices, NEC MobilePro 880 some time back, stuff like the eeePC, this HP, etc. But these days I've learned to spend my money smarter, and I don't buy into devices unless they really, really suit me. (Hence I own neither an MBA nor eee PC).

We'll see how it goes...

erickzig
Feb 20, 2008, 11:32 PM
I'm very interested to see how things play out with the HP2133, but I think the OP's speculated price of $500-ish is very unrealistic, unless someone can tell me otherwise.



I believe engadget speculated/reported that the cost would be around $630 and it would come out possibly in April...

ctt1wbw
Feb 21, 2008, 02:49 AM
You know, that seems like a VERY interesting laptop! I have been thinking of getting the EEE or something similar, since deep down I have always liked Linux :). That device would fit the bill perfectly, especially if they keep the price down.


Just go to ebay and buy a used Dell or something for Linux. Much cheaper and you actually get a real computer.

shadowmatt
Feb 21, 2008, 03:54 AM
I dont get why some people want Apple to make a eeePC style notebook.

You have already complained enough about what Apple had to cut out to make the Air. If they reduced screen size, hd space to 4gb, and a lesser cpu would you really be happy.

Sure it would probably run a cut down version of OSX, like the iPhone. But it wouldnt run CS3, Office or any of the other great apps that the Air can run. So you would basically have a large iPhone, capable of browsing the web, reading email and editing a few documents using a cut down version of some full sized app.

Not my idea of portable computing.

notjustjay
Feb 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
Sure it would probably run a cut down version of OSX, like the iPhone. But it wouldnt run CS3, Office or any of the other great apps that the Air can run. So you would basically have a large iPhone, capable of browsing the web, reading email and editing a few documents using a cut down version of some full sized app.

Not my idea of portable computing.

I would like it, if they were to also price it like an eee PC (e.g. $300) and if it had similar battery life to an iPod Touch or iPhone (e.g. 10-20 hours). It would be a great thing to throw into the car or luggage for checking email on vacations, or taking notes in lectures and meetings. It would also have its uses in classrooms, etc.

But, yes, it would be very much a niche device.

deniser
Feb 22, 2008, 12:42 PM
That has to be the most ugliest looking laptop I have ever seen

Adokimus
Feb 22, 2008, 01:36 PM
Actually, if Apple came out with an eeePC sized/form laptop which combined the aethetics and function of the Air and the iPod touch, and around 16GB memory, for under $750, I would be there. The eeePC really started a computing revolution, the HP entry looks even more polished and useful, and I would love to see Apple redefine the 7-10" screen category. I'm thinking of a combo media player, laptop, GPS for car, multi-touch screen, etc...

Won't happen, but I like to dream.

ecsk2
Feb 23, 2008, 12:26 PM
agreed about the playskool laptop. that asus eee pc has 2 gb of storage...

Maybe someone pointed this out already? But the 2Gb version is a cheaper version of the BASE MODEL the 4Gb edition. There is also an 8Gb version.
As for the EEE I don't feel it's in the same category as this HP at all, I doubt HP is ready to release such a lowend/affordable computer at this time. The EEE really fits into a nice segment and compliments my Apple's really nicely. For me the EEE is just what I need for some occasions, and right price and size. No hassle with Windows (unless that's what you need/want, I don't) but I can still run Win programs under crossover. :)

What I really want though is an Apple product in the handtop size:
..Apple are you listening/watching??

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/02/mbpmockup1003.jpg
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/02/mbpmockup1014.jpg

kzin
Feb 25, 2008, 05:05 PM
Actually, if Apple came out with an eeePC sized/form laptop which combined the aethetics and function of the Air and the iPod touch, and around 16GB memory, for under $750, I would be there. The eeePC really started a computing revolution, the HP entry looks even more polished and useful, and I would love to see Apple redefine the 7-10" screen category. I'm thinking of a combo media player, laptop, GPS for car, multi-touch screen, etc...

Won't happen, but I like to dream.

Which is really what I was getting at. I don't want a device that literally looks like the HP. Nor the fujitsu lifebook u810.

What I want is an Apple entry into the under $750, 7-10" screen laptop market (more resolution, but still in the smaller screen, and enough screen memory to display a ton more when attached to an external monitor). 1 or 2 SDHC cards for primary storage, SSD option, a USB Client port (for syncing and charging), one or two USB Host/OTG ports, micro-DVI out, both stereo speakers and audio out, Express Card slot, multi-touch screen, wifi, and bluetooth.

(in portrait mode: put as many of the ports/slots* on one long edge (top or bottom), or maybe some USB on top and some USB on bottom; then use iPhone-like detectors to allow the device to be used in _any_ orientation ... perhaps with a speaker in each corner, and some means of always correctly directing left/right sound to the correct pairs of speakers)

(* ports/slots == SDHC slots, USB ports, Micro-DVI out, audio out, and Express Card)

It would be especially nice if it could act as a wifi base-station for an iTouch. And/or if the iPhone could act as a wifi base-station for this device. Then you could use the iPhone's WWAN to have this device be connected, while the iPhone is in your pocket. Or you could have a WWAN card in this device's express card slot, keep it in your backpack, and use the iTouch to surf the net via this device's express card WWAN.

I'm sort of agnostic about the keyboard choices. I could probably make due with a mini-laptop (HP/EeePC style, or Fujitsu Lifebook U810 style ... between the two, I slightly prefer the U810 (twist screen) style, even though it's uglier), or a OQO style slide-out keyboard. But, I think the Samsung Q1 had it right: a virtual version of the Q1-Ultra or Pepperpad split-thumb keyboard. I'm not saying use this exact implementation (the aesthetics could be better, and I'd make it more translucent so you can see more of the underlying real-estate):

http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/samsung-q1-2.jpg

But that's the general idea. You can thumb-type on the screen, no need to waste physical device space with real keys. If you need a REAL keyboard, then I see lots of options for people in that situation (someone could make a case for it that has a keyboard, so it becomes like a mini-laptop for people in that crowd; you could use any bluetooth keyboard; someone could make a docking station that held it up like a small iMac; etc.).

And, when you've got it attached to a docking station, you can use it basically as a replacement for the Mac-mini ... except for the optical drive. For that, you could either mount the MBA's USB superdrive, or you could use the MBA's software to borrow one from another machine. Keyboard and mouse via bluetooth (or via USB in the port replicator/docking station), and a large-ish external monitor via the port-replicator/docking station. Depending on how you do the docking station/port replicator, maybe this device can also be used as a drawing tablet and/or large trackpad while it's docked.

All of that combined with a platform that is somewhat of a mix of the iPhone/iTouch and standard OSX --- some UI elements directly from the iPhone/iTouch, but fully compatible with desktop/laptop OSX applications. It should have the visual aesthetics of the Mac platform (perhaps looking something between a large iPhone and a small rounded off iMac).


If Apple did that, I'd buy it.

I would LOVE to have that, over the EeePC, the HP 2133, Everex Cloudbook, etc.

I will NEVER buy the MacBook Air. Even if I had the spare cash. I'd rather buy the regular MacBook. Same footprint (and yes, that is FAR more important to me than the weight difference between the MB and MBA), better features at the same price points. The whole concept of the MBA is completely useless to me.

But, then, I'm pretty sure i wont buy a MacBook, either -- too big. It's not that I want to do all of my work on a small screen, it's that I can put that device on a bigger screen for those moments when I do need a bigger screen. But, in most moments, I do NOT need the bigger screen. So, I would lean closer to a 7" screen than a 10" one. I think 8" (not the HP's 8.9") would be just about right.

Unfortunately for Apple, I'm more interested in an 8" screen device than I am in an OS X device. Certainly it can't be a Windows device ... but I'll be mostly happy if it's running one of the newer/nicer Linux distributions (they're no where near as god-awful on usability as they were 5-10 years ago). I'm just not as addicted to Nextstep/OSX as I was as recently as 1-2 years ago (and before that, I had been head-over-heels for Nextstep since I first used it, in the late 80's).

Apple has a hole in its product line. A hole that other companies are filling with something very attractive to the market right now. They should fill that hole with _SOMETHING_ that has an Apple brand.

kzin
Feb 28, 2008, 11:55 AM
Thinking about it more, I suppose I would be happy with an 8" screen version of the iPod Touch, as opposed to an 8" MacBook, if the 8" iPod Touch had:


The split virtual keyboard when used in landscape mode
No skimping on the included software (like they did with the original iPod Touch, and no $25 add-on fee to fix it, like they did with the iPod Touch; should be able to do everything the iPhone and iPod Touch do, except make phone calls and do SMS/MMS messages)
An open SDK
An OpenSSH client (via the SDK or built in, either one)
A VNC client (via the SDK or built in, either one)
A Remote Desktop client (again, via the SDK or built in, either one)
SSD storage with at least 32GB, pref. options that match the iPod Classic storage tiers, only with SSD instead of HDD.
An express card slot, with WWAN card drivers
Bluetooth (for headsets, keyboards, and for DUN _and_ PAN)
Some form of tethering with the iPhone (add bluetooth DUN or PAN to the iPhone, or let the iPhone act as an airport base station for the 8" iTouch).
Some form of wireless data sharing protocol to use among the iPod family (ex: add Bluetooth FTP to the iPod Classic, iPhone, and iPod Touch, and let them share music, video, and files among each other)
Lots and LOTS of battery
Price tag under $1000


Maybe I should mention that over in those forums.

Sesshi
Feb 28, 2008, 12:19 PM
No way! How I am I going to be holier than thou with a VIA processor? And that's just for starters...

QCassidy352
Feb 28, 2008, 12:59 PM
I will NEVER buy the MacBook Air. Even if I had the spare cash. I'd rather buy the regular MacBook. Same footprint (and yes, that is FAR more important to me than the weight difference between the MB and MBA), better features at the same price points. The whole concept of the MBA is completely useless to me.

You've yet to explain why footprint matters. You didn't answer before, so I'll ask it again - where can you use an HP 2133 that you can't use a MBA? On 8" wide table tops? :rolleyes:

Thinking about it more, I suppose I would be happy with an 8" screen version of the iPod Touch, as opposed to an 8" MacBook, if the 8" iPod Touch had:


SSD storage with at least 32GB, pref. options that match the iPod Classic storage tiers, only with SSD instead of HDD.
...
Price tag under $1000



yeah, good luck with that.

topicolo
Feb 28, 2008, 01:25 PM
kzin, I think you're having trouble realizing that your requirements for a perfect laptop puts you in the vast minority. How many people are out there who buy laptops to put in their backpack and act as a mobile server for their N810s? how many people even own an N810? On top of that, how many people in that population use openSSH and use bluetooth to ftp files to their other electronic devices? Do you actually think this population is bigger than say, the number of people who want a sleek laptop that they can take on the road with them?

Apple will never tailor their hardware to hardcore subpopulations like the one you're describing. If you haven't noticed, they're more focused on streamlining complicated technologies so that they just work for the masses. That's why they're so successful.

kzin
Feb 28, 2008, 04:30 PM
You've yet to explain why footprint matters.

I can carry it in a smaller bag, so I don't have to lug around something the size of a briefcase, full size messenger bag, etc. Even if it's a sleeve, it's obtrusive to carry a full size laptop.

Whereas, you can carry 8" and smaller devices in bags that are small enough and comfortable enough that you almost don't notice them.

The weight difference between an HP 2133 and a MacBook Air isn't something I'll notice. The fact that the bag I carry the MBA in is an annoyance to deal with, where the bag the HP is in is not, is something I'll notice.

greenmeanie
Mar 3, 2008, 08:58 PM
I am going to get one.

robanga
Mar 3, 2008, 09:33 PM
I have a Samsung Q1 and it will soon join the forlorn gadget corner of my closet, awaiting it's day on Ebay that will also likely never come.

It was a great thought a tablet based UMPC and it had a lot of very interesting features including the virtual thumb based keyboards, but the reality of using it was a less than pleasing experience. I watched a few movies on it as recorded by my Media Center, had some fun posting to picture sites and the like but in the end its bang for the buck was small.

It was a really nice Skype machine because of the excellent dual microphones and good sound in general, but there are not a lot things beyond those I have listed. I'm not sure your average "road warrior" or business joe (or joelene) is right for a tablet. Your options for text entry are limited without another keyboard and slow in general.

To be sure there are places for tablets. Medical and any job that requires the filling in of lot's of electric forms are excellent tablet prospects. We are beginning to see them ruggedized for outdoor use and that is great too, but for your average business person? I don't see it happening. Even the UMPC concept as envisioned as an ultra cool consumer satellite computer for music, video and light web duties is being supplanted by the likes of the iPhone. I think Samsung sold something like 300,000 units of the Q1 and at least it kept them in the market for version two and three.

Which leads us to this eePC and light notebook concept. This one has legs, because the trade-offs are not as big and the price tag for playing is low. Its a form factor that people understand and can work with. If HP is really having 2,000,000 of these built, I believe they will sell them.

An Apple version of this, perhaps a Macbook "Breeze" or something like that :) I think it would have real market appeal. You'd have to do it for a lower than air price point of course. $799-$899 would be good. I think they would sell a bundle. I'd buy one and leave the MBP at home more often.

gcmexico
Mar 3, 2008, 11:19 PM
Yes, and that's really what I was getting at. The potential of the pre-show hype that they were coming out with an ultra-portable design made think Apple was going to do something useful, like release something in the EeePC, OXO, or MID category. Instead, what they gave us was "ho hum", in my opinion.



Yup, and with its resolution, you can still get a good visual experience while getting closer to it (like you're intended to on an iPhone or Nokia N8x0). Not ideal, but good enough on the road. And when you get to a destination, you're just as good as with any laptop: you hook it up to a real display, a real keyboard, and a mouse.



Yup. If Apple enters this market before I'm able to snatch up the Linux version of the HP, I'll get the Apple version. I'd like to have ANY excuse from Apple to stay on their platforms. But, since the draconian iPhone debacle in Sept, the dreadful lack of no-brainer features on the iTouch (bluetooth, the same apps that were on the iPhone, from day one instead of 6 months later for an extra fee), I've been steadily grown more disillusioned by Apple.

In the last year, I've moved from Apple Mail (was my favorite mail client since 1990 when I started using Nextstep, but the last few years it had more and more feature problems) to Thunderbird, from Safari to Firefox (again, too many mis-features and missing features on Safari), and when I got my N800, I saw that the Linux community had finally "gotten it" with respect to GUI quality. So why WOULDN'T I go to a Linux UMPC if Apple isn't going to get their crap in order?

But, if Apple doesn't show me that there's still some actual interesting things going on over there (and, no, the iPhone, iTouch, and MBA don't qualify, in my book), then I'll be going with the Linux version of the HP UMPC when it comes out.

**What did Apple do to you? Seems like you have made up your mind and have moved passed Apple, let it go, no need to gripe

Plain and simple that laptop is ugly has hell, you can explain it every way possible but it's still ugly! My MBA rocks, my Imac rocks, and my Iphone rocks!!

By the way Apple rocks!:D

jlbrown23
Mar 4, 2008, 12:39 AM
That thing looks awful. The MOST important part of any computer for non-gamers is THE SCREEN, and a sub-9" screen renders the thing almost unusable(not to mention the sin of ALL THAT SPACE around the screen). Add the tiny keyboard and it looks like an awful user experience - certainly not usable for any sort of heavy use.

The Air has a full keyboard, a great screen and it is light(I always scratch my head when people talk about footprint. Who gives a **** about footprint? Has anyone ever said "my shoulder hurts from carrying around this laptop with a large footprint"? I think Apple did a great job with the Air - it made the right sacrifices and didn't make any of the wrong ones. They're pushing the limits of weight while minimizing sacrifices on the most critical aspects needed for usability. Input(keyboard/track pad), output(screen) and networking(wireless) MUST be maintained because they are THE THINGS THAT MATTER MOST(if you don't believe that, travel to China for 3 weeks with a single laptop as your only tool for 70 hour work weeks. Wished I had an Air with me, but my IBM X40 was great. A 9" screen would have been miserable. Do the math on the AREA difference - it is HALF). Everything else is up for negotiation to save some weight. This HP thingy sacrifices input and output, 2/3 of the critical components, and doesn't really give back much weight savings for it. If it really does cost $600 that alone is enough to justify it for a lot of people because that is a pretty big price difference, but you take a huge hit in functionality for that price. It really isn't a full computer - it's closer to a bulky iPod Touch with some additional functionality than a budget MacBook. Which to me is the mistake - with the SDK(, the Touch/iPhone will blow this thing out of the water. If you are giving up all that function, why not have it slip easily in to your pocket?

mungopark
Mar 4, 2008, 01:47 AM
Its useless to discuss pros and cons of a laptop if you never have had one in your hands - I have the MBA and I really like it, its lightweight, small and fast enough for what I do with it on the road - I dont miss any interface nor the DVD when I am traveling and give presentations and I dont want a bulky looking something black brick.

mac-slap-happy
Apr 10, 2008, 03:29 PM
I actually ordered one of these yesterday. Will I like it? Only time will tell.

I can say that a device like this DOES fit my needs. I'm a DBA who is pretty much on call 24/7, and though I've came to terms with that I have been longing for something more portable than my current work machine (Thinkpad T42). Before the haters come out of the woodwork, I'm required to run Windows for work - my Macs are my home / web design computers.

With the Thinkpad, I couldn't really just grab the laptop, get on the motorcycle, and go to the park for a few hours. I don't have saddlebags on the motorcycle (don't like 'em), and the only real space available is the small bag between the handlebars. This laptop will fit in that bag - a MBA will not, nor would any standard sized laptop.

The reviews state it is underpowered due to the VIA processor, but for my purposes that should be fine. All I really need is the ability to whip this out if needed, pull up an SSH session to a server and take care of business. For my purposes, a super small machine like this is exactly what I've been needing for a while. I've just not been willing to live with 800x600 resolution the eee PC is stuck with or I would have purchased one last year.

I guess what I'm saying is that it entirely depends on your needs as to whether or not this will be useful.

netdog
Apr 10, 2008, 03:38 PM
Well, it's certainly thickerer.

ProwlingTiger
Apr 10, 2008, 04:25 PM
Oooo linux. Doesnt Dell do that for some machines? Or, is it that hard to download linux, or request a free cd? Big whoop. Whats that screen size? Kind of small. I guess if you like squinting....

For the record, I've tried ubuntu. Never will I go back to it.

weckart
Apr 10, 2008, 04:52 PM
Whats that screen size? Kind of small. I guess if you like squinting....

So how do you like squinting at your iPod Touch? :rolleyes:

ProwlingTiger
Apr 10, 2008, 05:22 PM
I dont squint at all really, as it doesnt have 1366 x 766 resolution :D

The iPod screen is built and acts as its intended function requires.

mingsaque
Apr 11, 2008, 09:53 PM
A review is posted at http://the-gadgeteer.com/review/hp_2133_mini_note_pc along with better pictures. It actually doesn't look bad and the reviewer says the keyboard is quite nice.

robanga
Apr 12, 2008, 12:18 AM
I have seen several other good reviews. I am thinking I will buy one and have a play with it, it will likely end up on ebay or gathering dust in the gadget closet but none the less....

Maybe my ten year old will get it for his school bag.

beast
Apr 12, 2008, 05:15 PM
i actually quite like the form factor of the 2133... while it is not as stylish as my MBA, it's not an ugly machine by any means. To be honest, the 2133 is close to the replacement I wanted for my old 12 inch powerbook.
Lets face it, the macbook air is not an ultraportable machine, it is simply a light low end macbook.... if the 2133 could run OS X, i would defiantly get one.

peterlobl
Apr 12, 2008, 05:37 PM
like several product categories before, other companies are roughly defining the borders of a product niche, opening up public acceptance..

then with a large enough market potential becomes too enticing to ignore, I think an apple tablet will come out (xmas this year, perhaps? hop..)!!
if it's under $1000, it will do soooo well!

powderblue17
Apr 12, 2008, 06:46 PM
So how do you like squinting at your iPod Touch? :rolleyes:

That's a pretty silly argument considering you hold an iPhone or Touch much closer to your face then you ever would a laptop.

hotdamn
Apr 12, 2008, 07:33 PM
That's a pretty silly argument considering you hold an iPhone or Touch much closer to your face then you ever would a laptop.

thats probably why it had the rolling eyes smiley

zap2
Apr 12, 2008, 07:40 PM
No, this is a very different computer then the Air.


Don't compare the Air vs this or EEE PC

hotdamn
Apr 12, 2008, 07:58 PM
No, this is a very different computer then the Air.

Don't compare the Air vs this or EEE PC

Doctor, you forgot to mention that it is also not Lupus.

Signed,
your biggest fan.

n1ght
Apr 12, 2008, 08:05 PM
No, this is a very different computer then the Air.


Don't compare the Air vs this or EEE PC

I agree.

The MBA is the following:
- High-end
- Mid-level performance (despite what people think; it's got a 1.6GHz C2D)
- 1 computer for usage anywhere (thinnote)
- Mainstream + businesses

The HP and EEE are the following:
- Low-end
- Basic performance (VIA or Celeron ULV, Atom in the future)
- 1 computer for usage anywhere for basic users (mini-note)
- Secondary computer for on-the-go for power users
- Mainstream + education + businesses

hexonxonx
Apr 12, 2008, 08:58 PM
If the MacBook Air has been in this device's category, then I'd have been behind it, and probably well on my way to returning to the Mac community (started leaving in September, when I was forced to choose between a Nokia N800 and an iPhone/iTouch, and correctly decided the Nokia was a better choice).

HP 2133 UMPC (http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/19/hps-umpc-2133-revealed/)

It's HP's competitor for the EeePC, but it has a few advantages over the EeePC:

1) bluetooth
2) SSD storage option
3) express card slot


That thing is just plain ugly, plain and simple. The MacBook Air wins on looks alone. I would never use this laptop that you have linked to simply because of the looks of it. I can't believe people would buy that.

hitekalex
Apr 12, 2008, 09:13 PM
That thing is just plain ugly, plain and simple. The MacBook Air wins on looks alone. I would never use this laptop that you have linked to simply because of the looks of it. I can't believe people would buy that.

It's no Macbook Air, but certainly wouldn't call HP 2133 "ugly". I actually think it looks cool, in an art deco sort of way. Nice solid looking metal casing, and the keyboard looks like it's be a pleasure to type on. One thing for sure - this is an EEE killer.

robanga
Apr 12, 2008, 11:34 PM
It's no Macbook Air, but certainly wouldn't call HP 2133 "ugly". I actually think it looks cool, in an art deco sort of way. Nice solid looking metal casing, and the keyboard looks like it's be a pleasure to type on. One thing for sure - this is an EEE killer.

I'm with you on that. The metal finish etc is pretty nice and indeed compared to the look of the eePc, it looks more substantial.

mingsaque
Apr 13, 2008, 11:52 AM
That thing is just plain ugly, plain and simple. The MacBook Air wins on looks alone. I would never use this laptop that you have linked to simply because of the looks of it. I can't believe people would buy that.
I agree it's no Air but I don't think it's ugly. The metal case seems to be nice and sleek and the keyboard is actually a coated metal. The keyboard is, I think, 92% of full size. Of course it doesn't include OSX and that is it's major flaw but other wise it's not bad just for travel.

aussieinrome
Apr 13, 2008, 12:53 PM
There's no optical drive? Where are all the numbtards who were complaining about the MacMagazine Air not having an internal optical drive?

The processor in the HP (Hunk-o-Poo) is beyond a joke.

BongoBanger
Apr 13, 2008, 01:42 PM
Meh... I think I'll wait for the 900 series Eee.

Dsr1205
Apr 13, 2008, 02:01 PM
agreed about the playskool laptop. that asus eee pc has 2 gb of storage... what can you do with that?

the asus ee has 2gb to 20gb of storage depending on the model, dont be hating. I have the 4gb version and it workd great with xp, i keep my storage on 16gb SDHC card. remeber, for 400 bucks you get a pretty awesome machine, i think the EEE and the 2133 beat the crap out of the MBA in terms of price/feature/usage abilities. Honestly you cant compare the 2 because they have differnt target audiences. the eee basically imposible to type on for some people. the 2133 and MBA have good keyboards so maybe they can be compared but once again theres big differences between them. I would get a MBA but i dont have 3k lying around, ill stick with my eee because it suits my needs and a price i like.

Danger! Will
Apr 13, 2008, 02:25 PM
I'm debating on wether getting an EEE PC or HP MINI as a second computer to lug back and forth to school. Either will fit nicely in my backpack and the SSD make them both quick to boot to do some web surfing or take notes in class. Because of the price on both systems $399 4GB EEE PC with Windows XP or $499 HP Mini with Linux I wouldnt give it a second thought to tossing it in my backback. With the MacBook Air I would.

BongoBanger
Apr 13, 2008, 03:14 PM
The Eee suits me perfectly - the 900 series has 12GB on-board memory plus you can squeeze an extra 16GB in there with a high capacity SD card. Plenty of room to run XP, put Office 2003 on (or at least Excel, Word and PP) and enough storage as you can always back up to an external HDD or your desktop.

Danger!Will hit the nail on the head - because the Eee is so cheap you can chuck it in your bag an not worry about it too much whereas I'd feel nervous doing that with the Air.

Aegelward
Apr 14, 2008, 02:55 PM
Well, reguarding an apple equivilent...

Certainly a 10" screen would be suitable. a couple of inches larger than the eee, but its still small but gives better visability. a resolution of around 1200x800 would work fine for me.
Being roughly thick as a macbook would be 'fine' as well, if they can shave a few mm off that'll be great however.
also, the screen's bezel shoulden't be more than 1cm, the 2.5 or so cm bezel around the macbooks is pretty unessaray. even the air and macbook would become far more portable if they can shave that down.

Processor wise they might as well go for the atom, the custom chipset used in the air may be too expensive to put in considering the desired ($500-800) price range
Storage can be done by an average hard disc, maybe a 1.8 one like the types used in the ipod classic, they could offer a SSD but OS X is so big these days that anything under 64 would be crippling
CD drive is unessary on such a device, just use the same software on the macbook air if its needed.

however... batterys, offering a built in smaller battery, and a removeable battery with standard and extended variants would be highly desirable. I like the air, i'd love it if they shaved the footprint down a couple of inches by trimming that bezel space. But what puts a bitter taste in my mouth about it is the battery. an extended battery is a MUST for an ultraportable to get any realistic use out of it. The day it was announced i thought up an extended battery system for the Air, rather than a cumbersome hook on one. have a kind of magsave attachment on the underside for the attachment of an extended battery.

If apple can deliver one of these i may consider dropping my macbook for a 'macbook mini' like this, i don't think what i laid out is espessily unreasonable.. BUT apple could save face on the air by doing a couple of the things i sugested. i may think about one of those too. Whew, long post.

Kebabselector
Apr 14, 2008, 03:17 PM
I think the HP UMPC looks great, it would be handy for me to carry round for quick internet use (via my 3g broadband USB). A linux model I hope is available as i'd rather not use Vista. That said I've got access to XP fundamentals edition, which for what I'd want something like this for is ideal.

O.k. It's not the Air, but it's trying to be either. Also it's not the most powerful device, but it serves a function. I'm seriously looking at an ultra portable mini laptop (this and eee pc seem to fit the bill). Sadly the Air, albeit light isn't small enough for me.