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MacMike1
Feb 20, 2008, 09:33 AM
Hi guys need some help.
on paper the HV30 sounds a bit better since it has this 30p. (maybe someone can explain this to me?)
so i was just wondering if anyone here had the chance to try both (if not those models maybe the HV20 and the HDR-HC7 since both these cameras are very close to the new ones the hv30 can actually do this 30p and apperantly full HD1080)
i would really appreciate any input! thanks a lot



MacMike1
Feb 22, 2008, 03:14 AM
any comments?

Cromulent
Feb 22, 2008, 05:29 AM
The HV20 had a very good repuatation I don't think that has changed with the HV30. In fact if you wanted to save some cash, just get an HV20 it is a very good camera indeed for the price.

cr2sh
Feb 23, 2008, 06:32 PM
What software are you going to use to edit this 30p footage? What do you plan on burning it to? Watching it on later?

30p sounds cool... but do you know how you're going to actually use it? I'm just guessing ere.. but I think you'll spend a lot of time deciding between cameras, just to not use 30p in the end anyways.

MacMike1
Feb 25, 2008, 03:14 AM
that is exactly my problem i dont even know what 30p is
i am using final cut pro.
so atm the sony sound more then enough for me. but off course more options sound always nice but the question is will i really ever need it.
can someone explain what 30p is really doing and when it is being used?
i mainly will be recording sport (so fast action) but also weddings for friends and holidays you know normal stuff.
thanks for your input.
mike

ColdCase
Feb 29, 2008, 06:04 AM
30p is the capability to capture and record an entire frame, 30 times a second. 24P is 24 times a second, which is the video film standard. 30p is better than 24p for sports, and is more of a standard for live video but, as the other poster says, it kinda depends on the video's end use whether that makes much of a difference.

It is easier to convert 30p video to the 15 frames per second typical/standard for youtube and other video for the internet.

MacMike1
Feb 29, 2008, 06:52 AM
if i just want to edit weddings and sport for DVD the sony is enough?

ColdCase
Feb 29, 2008, 09:32 AM
Good enough for you is a subjective judgement only you can make.

The HV20 is a good camera, winning camera of the year in 2007. It has excellent reviews, you can't go wrong with it. Don't know about Sony. You may want to look at its comparison reviews for more important specs than fps for weddings, like low light capability, color. focus, resolution, antishake performance, optics, etc.

If you think both cameras are equaly good enough for these considerations, then certainly, the faster the progresive frame capture rate the better it will be for sports. You will probably notice the difference. 1000fps would be even better, but currently impractical.

ziwi
Feb 29, 2008, 12:30 PM
If you are using FCE then the HV20 will give you fits since you will most likely want to record in 24p. The HV30 will work properly in FCE at 30p. You can still use the HV20 but usinf it in FCE with 24P is not doable unless you run it through another program first.

theBB
Feb 29, 2008, 03:47 PM
AppleTV can do 24p, but not a straight 30p in HD (H264). I noticed that when I convert my hand held footage shot at 30p through a cheap camera so that it is exported at 24p, the video becomes noticeably more jerky. I don't know how important this is for you and the next version of AppleTV may not have this limitation, but I figure I'd throw it out there.

hvfsl
Feb 29, 2008, 04:56 PM
Camcorderinfo has done reviews of both and they say the HV20/HV30 are the best when it comes to video quality. Although the main advantage of the HV30 over the HV20 is 30p. But since the European version of the HV20 already has 25p, if you can find the HV20 for a lot less than the HV30, you might as well get it.

cgingrich
Mar 1, 2008, 09:55 AM
I have the SD5 which is pretty similar to the SD9. Like everyone has said, it depends on what your preference is. If you don't have a Blu-Ray burner and Blu-Ray player for you TV, honestly it doesn't really matter because you won't be able to view the true resolutions unless it's straight from the camcorder or on your computer. The HV20 (assuming it's the same with the 30) uses miniDV tapes to record and the SD5/9 uses flash memory so you can either buy tapes which will leave you with hard backups, downside is you end up buying A LOT of tapes. Or you can get an 8GB card and backup with DVD or on an external harddrive. Also the SD5 is incredibly small and portable and I've seen the SD9 and it's even smaller so that could be a factor for you.

It all comes down to preference for you, I personally like the flash memory and size of the SD5 and I don't have a problem converting/editing the AVCHD files (make sure you have iMovie '08 or FC studio 2 or FCE4).

highjumppudding
Mar 2, 2008, 06:05 PM
I have owned the HV20 for about 6 months now. It is wonderful. I have used the Sony Z1U for about 2 years now and the quality is very comparable. I shoot the HV20 in 1080 24P and convert it in FCS2 to "true" 24P using this Doc by Apple:http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306389

The HV30 also does 30P which is nice. Great camera, great price.

I have samples of HV20 footage I have shot on my website in the signature. Check out the Visual FX Promo Reels, that is where the HV20 footage is.

MacMike1
Mar 4, 2008, 03:33 AM
thanks guys for all the input.
after long thinking and discussing with guys who know cameras. i made the decision for HDV tapes. AVCHD is in my opinion still in beta.
and burning on blue-ray or dvd-dual layer is to risky in my opinion for a backup. you don't know how long it will last. its Russian roulette with data.

i am tending to take the sony since i am getting it very cheap. the HV30 is not out yet, comes in april.
hv20 is cheap but i am getting the hc9 cheaper then the hv20 now.
then i also like the sony night shot feature. yes canon is better in low light. in day light i actually liked the picture of hc7 better then hv20 (personal taste)
i am just struggling with the extra features of canon if it is worth paying more getting 30p and all of that but not night shot and in my opinion sony has nicer picture. canon has a little purple filter. at least the shots i saw.
thanks for all the input.
convince me of the 30p stuff :)

MacMike1
Mar 4, 2008, 07:49 AM
ok i was reading more reviews and i am really struggling.
i read that 30p is mainly for videos when u upload them on web.
is this the only advantage?
Please somebody explain the 30p properly to me and the advantage of it. aswell the 24p thanks a lot for the great community
mike

McBob
Mar 4, 2008, 02:47 PM
Hey Mike,

In a nutshell:

24p as many people have said before is the video worlds imitation of film which is recorded at 24 frames per second. This imitation basically involves the picture becoming slightly blurred (in a good way) achieving a film look. Since the cameras shutter is also having to do less work it can stay open for longer and will often yield more color accurate images with better light quality.

60i is the default recording method used by most consumer camcorders. This captures 60 fields a second. (30 frames of positive and negative lines combined together) This gives a smoother picture which is great for fast moving camera pans or action sequences but the shutter has less time to capture light so image quality will be degraded.

30p is basically halfway between. The camera will be able to keep its shutter open for longer to get a better color and light reading but be less prone to motion blur. Canon like to think of it as the best of both worlds, as well as telling us that it converts nicely for online video. This perhaps being something that looks great on paper, but does not make a noticeable difference in real life.

None the less the HV20 is a fantastic camera and the HV30 looks to be a solid successor. If you want the sharp black case, 30p and up rated screen (which was a problem on the HV20) then for the price in my opinion you can't do any better!

xRob

JerryE
Mar 4, 2008, 05:26 PM
MacMike1,

The HV30 is available now. bhphoto.com and buydig.com are indicating "in stock".

MacMike1
Mar 5, 2008, 07:45 AM
thanks JeeryE for the info but i need it in the UK or Europe at least. thanks anyway.

McBob (cool name by the way)
thanks for the very informational explanation of 24p 60i and 30p
now you said that 30p in practice wouldnt show any improvements.
improvements to 60i or 24p?
then what are the practical applications of these formats. say 60i for sports? or is it 30p since u said 24p has a slow shutter.
atm i would get the sony hc9 for 525 and the hv30 for 596 (pre-order, deliverd in april.) so i am wondering if the 24p and 30p is worth paying 70 quid more and not getting the sony night shot and the very good manufacture quality (according to ppl in forum sony is better manufactured)
any thoughs on this?
thanks Mike

JerryE
Mar 5, 2008, 12:15 PM
MacMike1,
Sorry, I didn't realize you're on the other side of the pond.

I don't know if you've read these reviews so thought I'd pass on the info.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-HC9-Camcorder-Review-34562.htm

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HV30-Camcorder-Review-34401.htm

I have a Sony dcr-trv8 bought new 8 years ago. It has been a good camera. It has the Night Shot feature and I have the extended range IR light. The feature is nice but in my case, rarely used. The video is viewable but the green and black image limits its use in footage.

In looking at the reviews above, the Low Light comparisons in the "Performance" section is quite an eye opener. The 30p/auto setting of the Canon at 15 lux blows away the Sony HC9. Low light capability is a high priority for me because much if not most of my shooting occurs indoors and I prefer to limit the use of lighting.

McBob
Mar 5, 2008, 01:41 PM
Hey,

As to the little difference made by the 30p format, I mean this only for when converting video for the web compared to an identical shot on the same camera but in either 24p or 60i. As for the difference between them at their full quality (on a dvd for instance) it would be very noticeable.

60i as you said is great for sports, any action sequences or even if you just think your going to be moving the camera fast. The HV30's 60i footage will look a little better than the Sony's but where the Canon comes into its on is on a location where 24p will work well. This could be a landscape shot or perhaps a wide shot at a wedding reception during a speech, this footage will look drastically more pretty than anything the Sony can achieve. This is not to say the Sony's footage is ugly.

As for other factors, Night shot is a "fun" feature. Although useful its something that I wouldn't dream of putting in anything unless I wanted to achieve an amateur effect in my work. Yet this depends entirely on what the video your recording for. If this is just for personal enjoyment then yes its a handy feature to have if you want to film at a dimly lit party or a family camping trip (much as i did when i was younger). As for build quality its undeniable that Sony build some great looking cameras with the best build quality around. Although that doesn't mean that Canon's Line is flimsy, they are just not as aesthetically pleasing and take a bit more getting used to.

Also a question for yourself, where are you planning on getting your Canon from if you go for it, Im looking to get one of my own in April. I see there on Amazon for 799 I think?

xRob

MacMike1
Mar 6, 2008, 03:04 AM
JerryE no worries :)
McBob you convinced me. you all did now. :)
i will buy the hv30
i wanted to buy the sony because i would get it cheaper since i work at sony :)
but seeing all the advantage of the hv30 with 24p and 30p i guess its unbeatable in price.
to bad the professionals are so super expensive, otherwise i would buy a sony hvr-a1e. well canon it is :)
i think its actually interesting that even the proffesional sony dont have 24p or 30p i wonder why.

last question: 24p and 30p is there anything i have to take into consideration working with final cut Pro? are those formats supported?

Macs&Video
Mar 18, 2008, 05:52 PM
What version do you have? The latest version of Final Cut Pro does-

"Mix and match different video formats and frame rates in the same timeline all without rendering." (apple.com)

Ps- I'm on the same camera search as you and I'm leaning towards the hv30. And don't worry about the nightshot. I have it on my current sony camera and it's useless beyond 10 feet anyway. Only used the function once.

MacMike1
Mar 19, 2008, 04:20 AM
i already ordered the HV30 should come soon!
and yes i am having the latest version of final cut pro
one more question 25p 30p are they all compatible with Final cut Pro?
or do you need to convert the footage before editing?
Mike

Macs&Video
Mar 20, 2008, 08:33 AM
Nope. You're fine with putting as many different frame rates in one timeline as you want (recent update for FCP6). Don't have to do any prep.

Tell me how you like the camera after you use it for a bit. I'm almost positive I'm getting the hv30 with my graduation money.

shuffle1
Mar 20, 2008, 05:24 PM
Hi Gang,

I have the HV20 and haven't shot anything in 24p with it yet, but have been wanting to recently. Someone mentioned that you first need to convert 24p footage first before putting it in FCE. Can you tell me what program that is? Thanks so much!

shuffle1

ColdCase
Mar 20, 2008, 08:48 PM
Apple support article # 306389 contains a 24p workflow that could be helpful.

Macs&Video
Mar 21, 2008, 12:17 AM
What he said.

MacMike1
Jun 4, 2008, 04:34 PM
could it be that the european version does not have 30p? but only 25p

ChemiosMurphy
Jun 4, 2008, 04:45 PM
Yeah dude. If you're in Europe under the PAL system it's either 25p or 50i.

NTSC, aka American standard, has 30p, 60i and 24p. It's tied to the electrical system, 60 hertz electricity and 60 hertz video so that there is no interference.

30 is half of 60, the normal framerate of American TV, and 25 is half of PAL's 50. So you should be good if you're in Europe. 25p is same effect as 30p.

MacMike1
Jun 5, 2008, 09:54 AM
ok thanks. its just then there is no difference between the hv20 and hv30.
its the same thing. hv30 has 30p but only for ntsc. hv20 has already 25p so no use to buy the hv30.

jpac125
Jun 14, 2008, 07:13 PM
I'm really interested in hv20, but I'm also interested in the hv30. This is probably a dumb question, but the hv30 is compatible with macs, correct? There is a firewire port and whatnot? I just want to be completely certain of this before possibly buying it, because I previously had a dcr-dvd508 (which doesn't work well with mac at all!), and I don't want the same mistake to arise once more.


In addition to what you guys have been talking about, would you suggest canon's vixia hv30 as a better purchase for filmmaking than hv20. I intend on shooting short films this summer, and these look like promising cameras for their price range

MacMike1
Jun 14, 2008, 07:40 PM
are you pal or NTSC?
if you are pal as far as i know the real change between hv30 and hv20 is the color and and the hv30 is supposed to have a better LCD.
in NTSC there is an addition of 30p.
I have the HV30 Pal version and was looking forward to the 30p option and was very sad when i saw that it wasnt there.
i thought to myself the hv20 would have been cheaper. same thechnology.
i am still happy with the hv30. and it is complete mac compatible. no issues there. at least on the PAL side. :)
mike

MvdM
Nov 16, 2008, 04:59 PM
Besides camcorderinfo and http://www.akam.no/artikler/sony_hc9_vs_canon_hv30/55296/2 , where can I find comparisons of the display quality, not only in low light?

NeoMayhem
Nov 16, 2008, 09:49 PM
Hi Gang,

I have the HV20 and haven't shot anything in 24p with it yet, but have been wanting to recently. Someone mentioned that you first need to convert 24p footage first before putting it in FCE. Can you tell me what program that is? Thanks so much!

shuffle1

You need final cut pro.

allymmpink
Nov 17, 2008, 04:17 AM
Hey everyone!
I was earlier tossing up between the HV-20 and the HDR-HC7, ended up finding the HC7 on an auction site, and bought it, and COULD NOT BE HAPPIER.
It is amazing, and I have heard that the HV-20 is quite nice aswell, but the HC7 really takes the cake. It looks amazing, takes great pictures during capture, and yes, I am extremely happy.
Go for an HC7 :)
Ally
:apple: