iTunes Rental Pricing Flexibility and Earlier Releases [Archive]

MacRumors

Feb 21, 2008, 01:35 AM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

When Steve Jobs announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/15/apple-announces-itunes-movie-rentals/) iTunes Movie Rentals at the Macworld San Francisco 2008 keynote, he said that the digital rentals would appear 30 days after their DVD release. This delay is typically mandated by the movie studios who hold back "on demand" products, such as rentals, for 30-45 days after DVD release to avoid sales cannibalization.

Readers have noticed, however, that several movies are appearing in iTunes Rentals only days after their DVD release. These movies have included The Invasion (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427392/), No Reservations (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0481141/) and Michael Clayton (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0465538/). The delay from DVD release has ranged from 1 day to about a week. It seems the 30 day delay may not be enforced with all releases.

Meanwhile, Apple also appears to have some pricing flexibility with the movies. Last weekend, they ran a "Weekend Movie Rental Special" and discounted Breakfast at Tiffany's (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054698/) rental to $0.99 from the usual $2.99 fee.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/21/itunes-rental-pricing-flexibility-and-earlier-releases/)

twoodcc

Feb 21, 2008, 01:38 AM

very smart! weekend deals like this is a great idea to get people to rent movies that they usually might not watch.

it's also nice to not have to wait for 30 days when the dvd gets released

UCLA-Bruin

Feb 21, 2008, 01:38 AM

I had no idea they had BFT at $0.99 - that's a great idea. Also, any suggestions for setting for SnapzPro on iTunes movie rentals? (Is that legal?)

applefan69

Feb 21, 2008, 01:38 AM

This is great news how apple is able to have some flexibility

I can assume the 99cent movies, the mmoney is comin from apples pockets though. But thats still good to see apple having cheap movies, it will REALLY encourage people to start renting.

Expecially since at the moment i think lots of people are skeptical about renting online.

EricNau

Feb 21, 2008, 01:44 AM

skeep5

Feb 21, 2008, 01:47 AM

that would be great to have them early if i knew i could expect it for all of them...

ltldrummerboy

Feb 21, 2008, 01:50 AM

Yay! But I'm still not renting on a 256k connection and no :apple:tv

bdkennedy1

Feb 21, 2008, 01:57 AM

It makes sense. If the movie sucks then why wait a month for people to rent it.

joshamorrison

Feb 21, 2008, 02:03 AM

Apple already has snapz pro on lockdown

ReflecTruth

Feb 21, 2008, 02:11 AM

Apple already has snapz pro on lockdown

How did they do this? What's being done?

Doctor Q

Feb 21, 2008, 02:13 AM

The delay from DVD release has ranged from 1 day to about a week. It seems the 30 day delay may not be enforced with all releases.Does this depend on which studio it is?

I think "Michael Clayton" came out on Netflix just today (I got a copy :)), so Apple's rentals are providing real competition.

stoutboy1

Feb 21, 2008, 02:20 AM

Ya, why can't they compete with redbox? $.99 sounds like a good round number to me.:D

MacFly123

Feb 21, 2008, 02:30 AM

I'm pretty sure I was the first to mention this. I feel special hehe :)

P.S. They gained at least one sale with this, because my mom has been dying to rent "No Reservations" and if it hadn't been on iTunes right now she would have rented it and they never would have gotten that sale. I'm sure there were lots n lots more other than me. The 30 day delay could really hurt them because after 30 days you will have already rented what you want to see and if it was good you would just buy it by then, so either way in that scenario Apple gets screwed. Hope to see more movies posted right on release.

JimmyDreams

Feb 21, 2008, 02:47 AM

Ya, why can't they compete with redbox? $.99 sounds like a good round number to me.:D

Rebdox is that 'movie in a vending machine' thing, right?

Let's compare the competition:
Redbox : $.99
iTunes Rental: $3.99 or $4.99HD

Gas to and from 'redbox' location: avg $3.25/gal
Time spent driving to and from and looking for parking space: 20-30 minutes
Etc. etc. etc.

Even an HD rental at $4.99 is cheap if you consider the time, gas, etc. Heck if your round trip is 30 minutes, and you earn $15.00/hr at work, your dollar-value for time plus rental is already $8.49, not counting gas and the inevitable 2 liter of Coke and chips that you spontaneously purchased!!!:rolleyes: And if you're like me, there's the risk of a speeding ticket and/or being in an accident with an unlicensed, no-insurance-coverage illegal alien.:eek:

Really, the convenience factor alone makes the rental price worth it.

I personally would like to see more like a 48 hour window to watch PLUS the option to flat out buy a copy of the movie....but I'm sure buying downloads will come over time.

Besides, I can rent from iTunes wearing nothing but my boxers. Last time I tried renting from redbox wearing that, I got arrested, and dozens of bystanders are STILL in therapy.:p

:D

kitki83

Feb 21, 2008, 02:58 AM

we need a new forum called "iTunes DailiesSpecials:Joy Luck Club FREE!!!!"

So we know when a movie is cheap to rent, just an idea

TheSpecialist

Feb 21, 2008, 03:05 AM

It only gets better, very positive:rolleyes: but I'm wondering when it comes to Europe (Holland) I would very much like to use this service!

ghettochris

Feb 21, 2008, 03:12 AM

How did they do this? What's being done?

i second that question, I had a problem dvd i was trying to get to the ipod a few months back, so i just ran the snapz pro movie while the vid played in dvd player. the temp file it creates as it records can be huge for a movie, then it needs more space to save it after. i got better motion results with 30 fps rather than the source 24, but still not perfect. got a new imac 20'' pimped. might work fine on a mac pro. does this not work when playing an itunes rental on the computer? I do see a legal difference between copying a movie i own on dvd to the ipod, and making another compressed copy, just without drm and 24 hour limits...

i know apple's screenshot doesn't work when dvd player is open, but snapz has been fine, haven't tried doing this in 10.5.2 yet though.

minik

Feb 21, 2008, 03:39 AM

Good move. I better check the movie everyday now and looking for any special.

kresh

Feb 21, 2008, 04:04 AM

Apple already has snapz pro on lockdown

I thought Ambrosia had this fixed. Link. (http://www.ambrosiasw.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3602)

elppa

Feb 21, 2008, 04:10 AM

Personally I think the 30 days thing is excessive and unnecessary by the film studios. It's almost like they want digital distribution to fail.

Also, where is Gladiator, Casino Royale or any James Bond film?

un1ty

Feb 21, 2008, 04:47 AM

Funny... I just rented Breakfast at Tiffany's and Michael Clayton (in HD). I bought a new hdtv and a 160gb appleTV this weekend, and I've been loving it. The podcasts, the HD films, the slideshows, even youtube is a whole other experience.

Maybe I'm just lazy but using a dvd player seems really old-fashioned now. Also, the way the appleTV is set up, it's so easy to make impulse rentals.

Proji

Feb 21, 2008, 04:53 AM

this is typical behaviour of the film distributors. i used to work in the industry so know q a lot about this.

distributors know when they have a film that isn't going to do loads of business, so they relax release schedules. this applies to cinemas, dvd rentals and dvd release. i'm not sure how much apple will have had to do with the short time between release and rental, but i don't doubt that apple will do what any film booker would, and that's ask about each film and push for an earlier release.

the discount weekends are a really good idea too, and i can't wait for the rental scheme to come over to the uk. well done apple i say :)

johnnyjibbs

Feb 21, 2008, 05:42 AM

A nice bonus. Who voted negative? :eek:

mbene12

Feb 21, 2008, 06:41 AM

They need to aggressively move to do two things if they want this product to have a chance.

The first is ADVERTISE. This is not a product that is going to sell itself. Where the heck is the ad campaign?

Secondly they have to push a little harder to get some movies up there. In terms of relatively recent flicks we are talking like 30-40 of them. Depending on your taste you might like 3-4 of those. They seem to be adding maybe two movies a day, sometimes none. Do they really have the support of all the studios? Its been a fair amount of time since they released the software patch.

I have a 160 gb and have gotten a lot of use out of it before the patch due to iTunes, iPhoto, and Handbrake. I have enjoyed the update and am impressed with all the new features, but I really want them to expand the market for the device before netflix and 20 others flood the market.

gwiller

Feb 21, 2008, 06:42 AM

macFanDave

Feb 21, 2008, 08:32 AM

I rented "Michael Clayton" on Tuesday, so that seems to me to be a ZERO-day delay from the DVD release!

I did rent it rather late in the evening (About 9:30 Central US), and it was there the first time I checked, so I am not sure about the exact time it was released. If there is a delay, it may be in hours, not days!

The HD version was ready to watch in less than 1 minute (I have a Cable modem). This AppleTV Take Two is really a great product!

kornyboy

Feb 21, 2008, 08:36 AM

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

I really like the weekend deals and I hope that Apple continues to be able to run them. Also, the sooner they can get new releases on iTunes the better. Both of these items are reply good IMHO.

chicagostars

Feb 21, 2008, 08:45 AM

Great. I haven't used iTunes for movie rentals -- or even purchases for that matter -- but from what I'm reading here, the development of iTunes movies is pretty encouraging. May even give it a try this weekend.

kornyboy

Feb 21, 2008, 08:59 AM

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A93 Safari/419.3)

I rented "Michael Clayton" on Tuesday, so that seems to me to be a ZERO-day delay from the DVD release!

I did rent it rather late in the evening (About 9:30 Central US), and it was there the first time I checked, so I am not sure about the exact time it was released. If there is a delay, it may be in hours, not days!

The HD version was ready to watch in less than 1 minute (I have a Cable modem). This AppleTV Take Two is really a great product!

That's really cool. Thanks for the info. I hope more and more releases will come out in conjunction with the DVD release or shortly thereafter.

Jeff Meredith

Feb 21, 2008, 10:01 AM

I love the Apple movie rentals and I love my Apple TV.

One thing in comparison to a Red Box or BlockBuster, online movie rentals are guaranteed to be there. When you have a heart set on a movie and it's sold out it's hard to settle for something else.

Unfortunately, my Apple TV can't rent movies because it's somehow hooked up to the Japanese store. I can browse Japanese music, I see the Kanji characters, some western but lots of Japanese artists. Online Apple support hasn't been able to help me. I'm hoping the call in support will be able to help me reformat the drive and start over.

I still enjoy the movies on my Mac though.

Anybody had a similar experience of not having an American account when that's appropriate? Francais, Espanol, English.

BTW, One of my neighborhood BlockBusters just shuttered. Considering the extortion they put on you if you had a late movie, I am not sad to see it go.

EagerDragon

Feb 21, 2008, 10:08 AM

I hope they start having some flexibility in the 24 hour period.
I am ok with the rest, but no rentals for me until I see a min of 48 hours preferably 72 hours. I vote with my wallet.

Diatribe

Feb 21, 2008, 10:56 AM

Rebdox is that 'movie in a vending machine' thing, right?

Let's compare the competition:
Redbox : $.99
iTunes Rental: $3.99 or $4.99HD

Gas to and from 'redbox' location: avg $3.25/gal
Time spent driving to and from and looking for parking space: 20-30 minutes
Etc. etc. etc.

Even an HD rental at $4.99 is cheap if you consider the time, gas, etc. Heck if your round trip is 30 minutes, and you earn $15.00/hr at work, your dollar-value for time plus rental is already $8.49, not counting gas and the inevitable 2 liter of Coke and chips that you spontaneously purchased!!!:rolleyes: And if you're like me, there's the risk of a speeding ticket and/or being in an accident with an unlicensed, no-insurance-coverage illegal alien.:eek:

Really, the convenience factor alone makes the rental price worth it.

I personally would like to see more like a 48 hour window to watch PLUS the option to flat out buy a copy of the movie....but I'm sure buying downloads will come over time.

Besides, I can rent from iTunes wearing nothing but my boxers. Last time I tried renting from redbox wearing that, I got arrested, and dozens of bystanders are STILL in therapy.:p

:D

Nice post :D

Yeah, I agree, the convenience is hard to beat. Though they really need to expand their HD catalogue and especially bring out TV shows in HD. I think even though it is just 720p if they'd come out with TV shows and movie purchases at similar prices in HD I think I would even stop buying Blu-Ray for the most part (except maybe a few movies where the quality matters).

megfilmworks

Feb 21, 2008, 11:09 AM

I rented "Michael Clayton" on Tuesday, so that seems to me to be a ZERO-day delay from the DVD release!
The HD version was ready to watch in less than 1 minute (I have a Cable modem). This AppleTV Take Two is really a great product!

I see on Nertflix that the HD version of Clayton does not release until March 11th!! And I bet I would have to wait a couple of weeks after that to get it.
Way to go Apple!!

billabong

Feb 21, 2008, 11:35 AM

It just keeps getting better and better, Michael Clayton came out the same day as the DVD! Let's hope more films follow this!

gkarris

Feb 21, 2008, 11:41 AM

Amazon Unbox has had this already - special rental pricing, .99, 1.99...

Heck, some rentals were FREE!

I assume Apple will be following them...

mdntcallr

Feb 21, 2008, 11:52 AM

I had no idea they had BFT at $0.99 - that's a great idea. Also, any suggestions for setting for SnapzPro on iTunes movie rentals? (Is that legal?)

OMG so lame, Apple finally makes some progress in getting studio support and you want to find a way to steal content from it?

theBB

Feb 21, 2008, 11:57 AM

OMG so lame, Apple finally makes some progress in getting studio support and you want to find a way to steal content from it?
Oh, well, what do you expect from a Bruin? :)

happydude

Feb 21, 2008, 12:15 PM

what aspect of this post could elicit a negative rating? do people just press that as their MO?

mdntcallr

Feb 21, 2008, 12:15 PM

Oh, well, what do you expect from a Bruin? :)

Hah funny, spoken like someone who went to USC?

whatever

Feb 21, 2008, 12:26 PM

Not sure if this is me but when I choose Power search in iTunes and look for movies to rent I only see 150. Are there more than that??

I am using my Powerbook not apple tv for this search obviously..

I have been looking everyday for the 1000 movies that Mr Jobs said would be available for rent by the end of Feb..

Last time I counted (last week) there were over 750 movies available for rent, with over 80 being available in HD.

The only thing that I think is missing the ability to purchase movies from within Apple TV, movies that you can buy in iTunes you can only rent in Apple TV.

rtdunham

Feb 21, 2008, 12:34 PM

The first is ADVERTISE. This is not a product that is going to sell itself. Where the heck is the ad campaign?......... They seem to be adding maybe two movies a day, sometimes none..

Absolutely: where are the ads?

Another post suggested a site that would notify readers of weekend specials; what about a site that does that and notes additions to the iTMS rental library? Sounds like a biz opportunity for someone.

rtdunham

Feb 21, 2008, 12:43 PM

I love the Apple movie rentals and I love my Apple TV.

One thing in comparison to a Red Box or BlockBuster, online movie rentals are guaranteed to be there. When you have a heart set on a movie and it's sold out it's hard to settle for something else.

Last week i went three times to my closest blockbuster looking for the dvd "The Rundown" with the Rock. (my kind of movie: chases, explosions, testosterone spewed across the inside of the tv screen).

The first time I just assumed they'd have it; the second time was a drive-by so not a great inconvenience; the third time i called ahead and they confirmed they had it: when i got there their computer showed it in stock but they couldn't find it.

I'm not faulting BB. Mistakes happen to all of us. But it is a circumstance that's less likely with the :apple:TV and my multiple efforts to get it from BB comprise a fairly significant inconvenience.
========
I assume they're waiting to advertise until they have enough movies to keep the inventory from being an embarrassment. I hope that's soon.

Diatribe

Feb 21, 2008, 12:48 PM

I think in time they will drop the price either everything by a Dollar or just the HD versions to the same price of the regular ones just as they did with iTunes plus. Just give it a year or so.

JimmyDreams

Feb 21, 2008, 01:35 PM

Last week i went three times to my closest blockbuster looking for the dvd "The Rundown" with the Rock. (my kind of movie: chases, explosions, testosterone spewed across the inside of the tv screen).

Heh heh heh

They said 'spewed'!

heh heh heh
:D

jettredmont

Feb 21, 2008, 02:49 PM

Rebdox is that 'movie in a vending machine' thing, right?

Let's compare the competition:
Redbox : $.99
iTunes Rental: $3.99 or $4.99HD

Gas to and from 'redbox' location: avg $3.25/gal
Time spent driving to and from and looking for parking space: 20-30 minutes
Etc. etc. etc.

Even an HD rental at $4.99 is cheap if you consider the time, gas, etc. Heck if your round trip is 30 minutes, and you earn $15.00/hr at work, your dollar-value for time plus rental is already $8.49, not counting gas and the inevitable 2 liter of Coke and chips that you spontaneously purchased!!!:rolleyes: And if you're like me, there's the risk of a speeding ticket and/or being in an accident with an unlicensed, no-insurance-coverage illegal alien.:eek:

Yeah, or you could add about 5 minutes to your commute by popping into the store along your commute and picking the movie up, and 5 minutes to your commute the next day to return it ...

That having been said, Redbox sucks because it has really crappy selection and, yes, a 24-hour window. Hitching on the commute means it needs to be returned in the morning, so effectively you have an overnight rental service like we used to hate in the 80s.

jettredmont

Feb 21, 2008, 03:30 PM

Not sure if this is me but when I choose Power search in iTunes and look for movies to rent I only see 150. Are there more than that??

I am using my Powerbook not apple tv for this search obviously..

I have been looking everyday for the 1000 movies that Mr Jobs said would be available for rent by the end of Feb..

You have to hit the "More Results" button/link at the bottom of the screen. The Power Search results are limited to batches of 150. So, you count how many times you can hit "More Results", multiply that by 150, and add in the number of results on the last screen to get the total number of matching movies.

Do note that last time I looked there were some glitches in "PowerSearch" not finding all rentable movies ...

darwen

Feb 21, 2008, 03:35 PM

Jeff Meredith

Feb 21, 2008, 04:02 PM

You have to hit the "More Results" button/link at the bottom of the screen. The Power Search results are limited to batches of 150. So, you count how many times you can hit "More Results", multiply that by 150, and add in the number of results on the last screen to get the total number of matching movies.

Do note that last time I looked there were some glitches in "PowerSearch" not finding all rentable movies ...

Counting today, I received two screens of 150 plus one of 85. If it says View Movie in the Power Search Column you can rent or buy it, if it says Rent Movie you can only rent.

So they have a way to go to a 1000 but they're getting there. I'm looking forward to seeing the catalog grow.

Astro8973

Feb 21, 2008, 04:26 PM

oh thanks for mentioning the fact that I found this out for yall. geez -_-

whatever

Feb 21, 2008, 05:35 PM

Counting today, I received two screens of 150 plus one of 85. If it says View Movie in the Power Search Column you can rent or buy it, if it says Rent Movie you can only rent.

So they have a way to go to a 1000 but they're getting there. I'm looking forward to seeing the catalog grow.

Alright for you iTune's movie counters, here is the easiest way to find out the total number of movies available in iTunes.

1. Start iTunes
2. Select iTunes Store
3. Select Movies from the store links
4. Under Categories select the All Movies link
5. Now this is where it gets tricky, there are 38 pages with each full page have 21 movies, so we need to go to the last page to see how many movies there are on the last page, so click the U-Z link (which moves us to page 36), move forward to the 38th page.

Alright there are only 6 movies on the last page so we have to do some complicated math.

(Movies per page x number of full pages) + number of movies on last page

(21 x 37) + 6 = 783

That means there are currently 783 unique movies available to either buy or rent from the iTunes store.

Pretty tough to figure out I know, but there you go.

Now I have a quick question, has anyone tried to move a HD movie from an Apple TV to an iPhone on iPod Touch. Is that possible. The reason I ask this is that this might prevent Apple from removing non-HD movies and only off everything in HD.

Lord Sam

Feb 22, 2008, 04:58 AM

Thats all fine and dandy, but what about UK movies?

Scarpad

Feb 22, 2008, 09:04 AM

Interesting. Other movies, however, are definitely being withheld until that thirtieth day, such as Elizabeth: The Golden Age (yes, I've been waiting).

Plus other movies, such as the The Bourne Ultimatum, seem to be missing long after the 30-day mark. :confused:

Me too I can't get it from Netflix.

jettredmont

Feb 22, 2008, 10:30 AM

Alright for you iTune's movie counters, here is the easiest way to find out the total number of movies available in iTunes.

1. Start iTunes
2. Select iTunes Store
3. Select Movies from the store links
4. Under Categories select the All Movies link
5. Now this is where it gets tricky, there are 38 pages with each full page have 21 movies, so we need to go to the last page to see how many movies there are on the last page, so click the U-Z link (which moves us to page 36), move forward to the 38th page.

Alright there are only 6 movies on the last page so we have to do some complicated math.

(Movies per page x number of full pages) + number of movies on last page

(21 x 37) + 6 = 783

That means there are currently 783 unique movies available to either buy or rent from the iTunes store.

Pretty tough to figure out I know, but there you go.

Now I have a quick question, has anyone tried to move a HD movie from an Apple TV to an iPhone on iPod Touch. Is that possible. The reason I ask this is that this might prevent Apple from removing non-HD movies and only off everything in HD.

Either buy or rent is the operative phrase. The PowerSearch includes only those available for rental (it's one of the terms of the search). There are many which you can only buy (A), those you can buy or rent (B), and many which you can only rent (C). Unless I'm mistaken, you're giving us (A+B+C) whereas the pertinent number (1000 by the end of February) is (B+C) only.

That having been said, I'm rather certain that when I looked through PowerSearch a few days after the store opened I also got 385 movies, and at that time noticed at least one movie which hadn't shown up in the "All Rentals" power search.

[Edit: nope, I was mistaken. Previously (1-17), I counted 318 movies, one of which showed up in the "Rentals" search even though it only allowed purchasing. I then searched by "Rating" for all movies (ie, buy + rent) and ended up with a total of 543, which of course excludes unrated movies like Coyote Ugly and Breakfast at Tiffany's. Assuming PowerSearch wasn't skipping movies left and right, Apple's added a little south of 240 movies (240 == added + missed originally because they were unrated) in the past month, which isn't an overly impressive rate, and certainly won't get them to 1000 rentals or even 1000 movies overall by the end of the month! See http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4774700#post4774700 ].

terjack

Feb 22, 2008, 12:54 PM

I must be the only person in America who likes the convenience Redbox gives me. I go to work, and their are 6 Redbox machines in a 5 mile radius
of my work.
I go home, and their are 5 Redbox machines in a 10 mile radius of my
house, the closest one is located in a Wal-mart 6 blocks from my house.

The selection may not be more than new release stuff, but when you
just want to watch a movie TONIGHT when you get home, and not
wait for downloads, et al., then Redbox is great. Not to mention Free
Rental Mondays they send to your cell phone, and twice a month they send you Free Thrusday night rentals to your email.

I'm also fortunate to live in a town that has 6 Blockbusters, 5 Hollywood Videos, 2 Hastings Videos, and 2 or 3 mom and pop video stores.
Heck, we just got a Family Video last week, and everything to
rent there is $2 for 1 ( catalog) and $1.08 a night new release.

When Apple and The studios get that convienent, I 'll jump on the
bandwagon.

whatever

Feb 22, 2008, 01:40 PM

Either buy or rent is the operative phrase. The PowerSearch includes only those available for rental (it's one of the terms of the search). There are many which you can only buy (A), those you can buy or rent (B), and many which you can only rent (C). Unless I'm mistaken, you're giving us (A+B+C) whereas the pertinent number (1000 by the end of February) is (B+C) only.

That having been said, I'm rather certain that when I looked through PowerSearch a few days after the store opened I also got 385 movies, and at that time noticed at least one movie which hadn't shown up in the "All Rentals" power search.

.
The number of movies available to rent as of today on an Apple TV is 360.

I did not give A+B+C as stated by Jettredmont, that would be stupid, because that would increase the number.

I do not recall what Jobs said in the keynote, whether that there will be 1000 movies to rent or 1000 movies available. If he meant available then today that number would be 783. If he meant to rent then today that number stands at 360.

I was pretty clear when I said that there are 783 unique movies which are available to rent or buy (I don't specify how many you can rent or how many you can buy, just the total number of unique movies).

LizKat

Feb 23, 2008, 10:24 AM

jettredmont

Feb 23, 2008, 11:35 AM

The number of movies available to rent as of today on an Apple TV is 360.

I did not give A+B+C as stated by Jettredmont, that would be stupid, because that would increase the number.

You are either using some odd logic I can not understand, are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say, or are yourself mistaken.

To restate what I described above, there are two overlapping sets: "Available to Buy" and "Available to Rent". A Venn diagram of two sets will include three regions: "A" for those only "Available to Buy", "B" for those in both sets (available to buy and available to rent) and "C" for those only "Available to Rent".

The facts as of Feb 23, 2007 at 8:00AM PST, as observed from California:

Power Search on iTunes shows 388 rentals available (150 X 2 + 88). This is (B+C) in my Venn diagram.
The All Rentals movies link (which I'm pretty sure wasn't there when I looked a month ago, but I might have just completely missed it :) ) shows 18 pages of 21 (378) and one of 4 on the last page (382 rentals). This, too, is (B+C) in my Venn diagram (like I said, the PowerSearch seems to have some issues, so I trust this number more).
All Movies on iTunes shows 37 pages of 21 (777) and one of 6 (783 movies). This is (A+B+C) in my Venn diagram.

So, again, quite clearly, the All Movies link is A+B+C. The All Rentals link, using you method above, is likely the most accurate measure of movies available to rent (B+C).

[snipped you stating the above as well ... we're obviously in agreement, even though you apparently don't think so ...]

I was pretty clear when I said that there are 783 unique movies which are available to rent or buy (I don't specify how many you can rent or how many you can buy, just the total number of unique movies).

The problem is the "or" makes your statement imprecise. It could mean (available to rent) OR (available to buy), or it could mean available to (rent OR buy) which is, (available to rent) AND (available to buy) (if I say a movie is "available to rent or buy today" I do not mean that the movie is either available to rent or available to buy and I'm just being mercurial; the choice lies in the hands of the actor, you: you can rent it OR you can buy it).

English is a poor language for precisely defining set intersections. You could be a little more clear by stating "to buy or to rent" to clarify that the phrases are being used as adjectives not proposed verbs, but it's still not a clear way to describe things.

Anyway ... it seems we're in agreement here (see above). There aren't 1000 movies available, to rent or to buy, from iTunes yet, and there certainly aren't 1000 available to rent.