Is it possible to install ONLY windows on a Mac?

[jbg232]

As the title suggests, is it possible to install JUST windows? I was thinking it might be possible to boot from a windows xp cd, format the hard drive and just install windows and then use the drivers from the leopard dvd that comes with the mac. Is this possible?

And please, I don't want any responses of why it's stupid to do this or why I would be getting a mac when I want a windows machine, the question is purely philosophical so save the rants for other posts. Thanks.

[Hankster]

No, it is not. The system is configured for a Mac OS. Remember, Apple is not "open source" like a PC is.

[Eidorian]

On current Macs you can install Windows XP or Vista right out of the box. On older Macs (pre-2007) you might need to upgrade the firmware.

Just make sure to wipe all the partitions and set them up the way you want.

[blackstone]

It should be possible with Vista (which is EFI-aware out of the box), but you'll run into some difficulties down the road if Apple ever issues a firmware update for your computer...

[jbg232]

So I got three different responses:

1. No
2. Yes - with vista only
3. Yes - with vista or xp

Can anyone clear this up?

[georgeoommen]

So I got three different responses:

1. No
2. Yes - with vista only
3. Yes - with vista or xp

Can anyone clear this up?

YES, absolutely possible with no problems. For intel based macs, all you need to do is to run Bootcamp once so that the EFI gets updated with the necessary information. Once this is done, create the drivers disk with bootcamp as well. Thats about all you need bootcamp for.

After this, just put the XP or vista or whatever disk u want in the drive, press C during startup to start from the optical drive, and away you go. if u continue with bootcamp, then you might be forced to keep atleast 5gb on the OSX partition. so after creating the drivers disk, kill bootcamp.

once u're done with the installation, put the bootcamp drivers disk in and install all the necessary drivers..

there is no way a future apple EFI firmware update would affect this. Any software update would have to make sure bootcamp works fine and therefore this would continue to work without any problems..

[chrono1081]

windows may work but its a safe bet to say your drivers wont.

[Cromulent]

No, it is not. The system is configured for a Mac OS. Remember, Apple is not "open source" like a PC is.

Completely wrong. You can have Windows as the only OS on your Mac with no problems at all.

It should be possible with Vista (which is EFI-aware out of the box)

No it is not. Microsoft removed the EFI compatibility from Vista quite a while ago. Vista still uses the BIOS which is included in the EFI for compatibility reasons.

Windows XP SP2 would be fine to install as well.

windows may work but its a safe bet to say your drivers wont.

Also wrong. You just install the drivers from the Leopard install disk. No problem at all.

[jbg232]

YES, absolutely possible with no problems. For intel based macs, all you need to do is to run Bootcamp once so that the EFI gets updated with the necessary information. Once this is done, create the drivers disk with bootcamp as well. Thats about all you need bootcamp for.

After this, just put the XP or vista or whatever disk u want in the drive, press C during startup to start from the optical drive, and away you go. if u continue with bootcamp, then you might be forced to keep atleast 5gb on the OSX partition. so after creating the drivers disk, kill bootcamp.

once u're done with the installation, put the bootcamp drivers disk in and install all the necessary drivers..

there is no way a future apple EFI firmware update would affect this. Any software update would have to make sure bootcamp works fine and therefore this would continue to work without any problems..

Thank you for this, a few questions though:
1. So the steps would be:
a) make drivers cd
b) install bootcamp
c) boot from cd and format hard drive partitions (including the bootcamp and mac partitions, but NOT the "proprietary get windows to work on mac partition" (how would I know which one that is?)
d) merge all partitions aside from proprietary one
e) install windows on that main partition
If my understanding is correct, this procedure would delete both bootcamp and mac os and use only a natively installed version of windows. Is this the correct procedure and will a native windows installation be the result?

2. How do I make a drivers cd? I thought all the drivers were on the leopard DVD.

[balamw]

windows may work but its a safe bet to say your drivers wont.

use the drivers from the leopard dvd that comes with the mac.

So, chrono1081, why would the Apple supplied Boot Camp drivers not work as the OP expects?

2. How do I make a drivers cd? I thought all the drivers were on the leopard DVD.

You don't they are on the Leopard DVD, only Tiger Boot Camp required this step.

B

[UltraNEO*]

I think YOU should try,
or attempt to install Windows on your Intel Mac.

You can't damage it by messing about with the partition map, though you might get a little lost cause you can't boot into windows after... But being a Mac it won't ever forget how to boot the MacOS DVD's. Period.


I suggest, once you've boot up into the windows configurations screen, just before you install windows, you are shown drive partitions... Perhaps you'd like to try deleting all existing partitions and create a new one, big enough to install windows and all your applications. I'd suggest a minimum of 30Gb? Or create a 32Gb (or bigger) partition whilst in Bootcamp.

Once your inside windows, you can remap the HD and delete all the Mac partitions if you so desire.

Oh.. with MacOS Leopard, you don't need to create a Windows driver disk like you did with Tiger. All the BOOT CAMP drives are on the Leopard Installer Disk!! But they're only 32Bit drivers suitable for Windows XP and Vista. However, NOT the 64bit version. Just insert it when once windows finish installing.

i'm playing CS:source finally.. lol...

[balamw]

So the steps would be:

For anyone seriously considering this, I would add one step above these.

Procure external HDD
Install OS X to external HDD using OS X install disc
Boot from external to make sure you can

If nothing else, you know that any future firmware updates will only be released for OS X, so you may want to be sure you can boot the Mac in its native OS once in a while.

B

[chrono1081]

Hm...just tried using a windows driver on a mac for a logitec camera. No dice.

[yellow]

If nothing else, you know that any future firmware updates will only be released for OS X, so you may want to be sure you can boot the Mac in its native OS once in a while.

QFT.

Now a days you can update the drivers through Vista/XP, but any firmware updates will be Mac OS X only. If I were going to do this, I would make sure I had just a tiny bit of my drive still dedicated to OS X so I could be sure I had some recourse for tools should something go wrong.

[chrono1081]

Oh I see, your talking about the default drivers that come on the mac.

I would say just try, it. The worst that could happen is you need to reinstall.

[gnasher729]

You basically follow the normal instructions for installing Windows using Bootcamp, with slight changes:

Bootcamp tells you to create two partitions, one for MacOS X, and one for Windows. You don't do that, you just create one partition.

Then, in the installation process when you install Windows there is a point where you need to format the Windows partition. At that point the instructions have dire warnings to make sure that you don't format the MacOS X partition (because if you do that, MacOS X is gone). Here you do exactly what the instructions tell you _not_ to do: You format the part that used to be the MacOS X partition.

From then you just follow the bootcamp instrctions. At some point you have to use your Leopard DVD, because it contains all the drivers.

I think if you then want to run MacOS X as well, you can just buy an external hard drive and install MacOS X on it. You can boot from it by holding the option-key down while restarting the computer as usual. That should work without problems. People tried to do the opposite thing: Install Windows on an external disk and leave the internal one unchanged with MacOS X. That seems to be really, really difficult.

[Neil321]

Following on the same sort of lines of this thread a mate has asked to me to
install a new HD in his MBP. Would it be possible for me while the old drives
still in Mac to install XP just say leave a tiny amount for OS X.Then swap drives
put the old one in a enclosure and be able to run XP & all the apps etc from
that and then delete the OS X partition from within XP.Would this be bootable?

[UltraNEO*]

Hm...just tried using a windows driver on a mac for a logitec camera. No dice.

Why you wanna use a 3rd party camera when the MBP/MB has a superior built-in webcam? If you gonna use Windows devices on a windows mac, you need windows drivers. However, if you wanna use Windows cameras on a Mac, in OSX then try ioxperts.

http://www.ioxperts.com/products/webcamx.html

[UltraNEO*]

You basically follow the normal instructions for installing Windows using Bootcamp, with slight changes:

Bootcamp tells you to create two partitions, one for MacOS X, and one for Windows. You don't do that, you just create one partition.

Then, in the installation process when you install Windows there is a point where you need to format the Windows partition. At that point the instructions have dire warnings to make sure that you don't format the MacOS X partition (because if you do that, MacOS X is gone). Here you do exactly what the instructions tell you _not_ to do: You format the part that used to be the MacOS X partition.

From then you just follow the bootcamp instrctions. At some point you have to use your Leopard DVD, because it contains all the drivers.

I think if you then want to run MacOS X as well, you can just buy an external hard drive and install MacOS X on it. You can boot from it by holding the option-key down while restarting the computer as usual. That should work without problems. People tried to do the opposite thing: Install Windows on an external disk and leave the internal one unchanged with MacOS X. That seems to be really, really difficult.

Thanks for rewording everything - maybe they'll understand the second time? lol..

[Neil321]

Following on the same sort of lines of this thread a mate has asked to me to
install a new HD in his MBP. Would it be possible for me while the old drives
still in Mac to install XP just say leave a tiny amount for OS X.Then swap drives
put the old one in a enclosure and be able to run XP & all the apps etc from
that and then delete the OS X partition from within XP.Would this be bootable?

Anyone able to answer this for me please?

[Cromulent]

Hm...just tried using a windows driver on a mac for a logitec camera. No dice.

Well if you are running Windows then it should work fine. If however you are trying to install it under Mac OS X then obviously the Windows driver will not work.

[UltraNEO*]

Following on the same sort of lines of this thread a mate has asked to me to
install a new HD in his MBP. Would it be possible for me while the old drives
still in Mac to install XP just say leave a tiny amount for OS X.Then swap drives
put the old one in a enclosure and be able to run XP & all the apps etc from
that and then delete the OS X partition from within XP.Would this be bootable?

Honestly... I don't know why you'll need two HD's...
and since i've not tried it myself, i'm not whiling to say either way..
If your about to upgrade your HD anyway.. why not give it a try.

I would of thought, that most advice given here are from people who've taken a moment to experiment with their macs... So why don't you give it whirl?? Perhaps you can teach us something.
;)

[Neil321]

Honestly... I don't know why you'll need two HD's...
and since i've not tried it myself, i'm not whiling to say either way..
If your about to upgrade your HD anyway.. why not give it a try.

I would of thought, that most advice given here are from people who've taken a moment to experiment with their macs... So why don't you give it whirl?? Perhaps you can teach us something.
;)

Ok i'll give it a go but the reason for asking was that its not my MBP,the reason for two HD is that he would rather not have XP on his Mac so this seemed a good idea

[gnasher729]

Following on the same sort of lines of this thread a mate has asked to me to
install a new HD in his MBP. Would it be possible for me while the old drives
still in Mac to install XP just say leave a tiny amount for OS X.Then swap drives
put the old one in a enclosure and be able to run XP & all the apps etc from
that and then delete the OS X partition from within XP.Would this be bootable?

People have attempted to make a bootable external hard drive that boots into Windows, and it seems to be more than tricky.

[jbg232]

You basically follow the normal instructions for installing Windows using Bootcamp, with slight changes:

Bootcamp tells you to create two partitions, one for MacOS X, and one for Windows. You don't do that, you just create one partition.

Then, in the installation process when you install Windows there is a point where you need to format the Windows partition. At that point the instructions have dire warnings to make sure that you don't format the MacOS X partition (because if you do that, MacOS X is gone). Here you do exactly what the instructions tell you _not_ to do: You format the part that used to be the MacOS X partition.

From then you just follow the bootcamp instrctions. At some point you have to use your Leopard DVD, because it contains all the drivers.

I think if you then want to run MacOS X as well, you can just buy an external hard drive and install MacOS X on it. You can boot from it by holding the option-key down while restarting the computer as usual. That should work without problems. People tried to do the opposite thing: Install Windows on an external disk and leave the internal one unchanged with MacOS X. That seems to be really, really difficult.


From my own experimenting with bootcamp on a mbp when you create a bootcamp partition there is a small partition that also has to be created to allow bootcamp to run on a mac. I'm not sure if this is just a "bootcamp+leopard" thing or a "required to use windows on mac" thing. My main goal in this is to make a 200GB (the full size of the HDD) NTFS partition to run windows. Obviously we all know that I could install bootcamp and keep a 5-10GB leopard partition. But if I did that I would be running windows using bootcamp support - not a bad thing in itself. My question though is whether windows can be installed WITHOUT boot camp.

Can a mac boot to a windows disc during its startup (EFI on macs) AND allow a windows installation from that bootup? I assume that during the windows installation when it gives me the hard drive map I would be able to delete everything from there and start from scratch. I'm not so sure of this though because of the problem in bootcamp where it creates an extra partition which may be required to run windows on a mac in the first place.

Basically when you install bootcamp with leopard you wind up with these partitions:
1. Leopard
2. Weird unused windows partition (that I think is required for booting windows but may only be needed if you want to use windows + leopard at the same time) - this partition can only be created by bootcamp I think
3. Windows partition

If you delete partition #2 windows will not run in bootcamp, this is a fact.

Would you still be able to install windows if you didn't have this #2 partition that bootcamp creates - ie. is it proprietary and necessary to run bootcamp first to install windows on a mac?

[Neil321]

People have attempted to make a bootable external hard drive that boots into Windows, and it seems to be more than tricky.

Many thanks for the reply,yes im aware that alot of people have tried and possibly failed to get windows to boot from a external.But this way would be different as windows & drivers would be
installed while the drive is still in the Mac then taken out and put in a external rather than cloned

[jbg232]

From my own experimenting with bootcamp on a mbp when you create a bootcamp partition there is a small partition that also has to be created to allow bootcamp to run on a mac. I'm not sure if this is just a "bootcamp+leopard" thing or a "required to use windows on mac" thing. My main goal in this is to make a 200GB (the full size of the HDD) NTFS partition to run windows. Obviously we all know that I could install bootcamp and keep a 5-10GB leopard partition. But if I did that I would be running windows using bootcamp support - not a bad thing in itself. My question though is whether windows can be installed WITHOUT boot camp.

Can a mac boot to a windows disc during its startup (EFI on macs) AND allow a windows installation from that bootup? I assume that during the windows installation when it gives me the hard drive map I would be able to delete everything from there and start from scratch. I'm not so sure of this though because of the problem in bootcamp where it creates an extra partition which may be required to run windows on a mac in the first place.

Basically when you install bootcamp with leopard you wind up with these partitions:
1. Leopard
2. Weird unused windows partition (that I think is required for booting windows but may only be needed if you want to use windows + leopard at the same time) - this partition can only be created by bootcamp I think
3. Windows partition

If you delete partition #2 windows will not run in bootcamp, this is a fact.

Would you still be able to install windows if you didn't have this #2 partition that bootcamp creates - ie. is it proprietary and necessary to run bootcamp first to install windows on a mac?

Can anyone answer these questions from page 1?

[balamw]

Would you still be able to install windows if you didn't have this #2 partition that bootcamp creates - ie. is it proprietary and necessary to run bootcamp first to install windows on a mac?

Can anyone answer these questions from page 1?

Remember that the Mac is an EFI/GPT system not a BIOS/MBR system it only emulates BIOS/MBR to provide legacy OS support. This #2 partition is where EFI can store its settings and it is not by any means proprietary, it's just a FAT32 partition with a different ID so it can be identified by the firmware.

Here's your answer though http://refit.sourceforge.net/myths/

Myth: Mac OS X requires GPT

This is mostly a myth. Mac OS X boots and runs just fine from disks using MBR partitioning, or even APM (Apple Partition Map, used on PowerPC Macs).

However, the Mac OS X Installer will refuse to put a fresh copy of Mac OS X on a disk that’s not using GPT. You can work around this using cloning tools like SuperDuper! or Carbon Copy Cloner. Install Mac OS X on a GPT-partitioned disk first, then clone it onto the disk of your choice.

Apple’s firmware updates are another issue. The exact requirements are not known at this time, but they are known to not work if you don’t have GPT and you don’t have a EFI System Partition.
Myth: Mac OS X requires a hidden EFI System Partition

Every GPT-formatted disk is supposed to have an EFI System Partition, and Apple’s tools create one at the beginning of the disk. However, Mac OS X doesn’t actually use it; the EFI System Partition is completely empty on a standard Intel Mac. Apple has added a HFS+ file system driver to its firmware, and the firmware boots Mac OS X directly from the partition it is installed on.

Also see above; Mac OS X can boot from a MBR-only disk with no trace of an EFI System Partition.

There is still some uncertainty about firmware updates, though. So far no one has investigated how they work in detail, and some people believe they require the EFI System Partition to be present.

Again. If you ever think you might need a firmware update. Make sure you have a GPT partitioned OS X install handy.

B

[Trainwreck707]

With my new Mac Pro dual 2.8 turned on I put the Windows XP Pro x64 install disc in the disc drive and shut the computer down. I then popped out my original hard drive and installed a new one in bay 2. After I restarted the computer it recognized the XP install disc and I proceeded to install Windows (SP 1). I then installed the drivers I had collected beforehand and updated the system to SP 2. It was very easy and I never used Boot Camp. When rebooting without the original hard drive in, it boots directly into windows, so the answer to your question is definitely yes.

[Supaklaw]

I was going to say, I've now installed both XP 64 bit and Vista 64 bit... with the bootcamp failing to properly set it up so although it technically "erased" the partition to prepare for windows... the Win install seemed to install fine without boot camp's help. I never installed drivers off the OS X CD and simply downloaded them directly from nVidia, realtek. XP had both my Apple wireless mouse and keyboard running. I simply have to Ctrl+Cmd+P+R to reboot into Mac.

These installs were both onto separate blank drives in my new Mac Pro, not onto my OS X drive... so it wasn't partitioning, just a clean install.

[jbg232]

With my new Mac Pro dual 2.8 turned on I put the Windows XP Pro x64 install disc in the disc drive and shut the computer down. I then popped out my original hard drive and installed a new one in bay 2. After I restarted the computer it recognized the XP install disc and I proceeded to install Windows (SP 1). I then installed the drivers I had collected beforehand and updated the system to SP 2. It was very easy and I never used Boot Camp. When rebooting without the original hard drive in, it boots directly into windows, so the answer to your question is definitely yes.

I was going to say, I've now installed both XP 64 bit and Vista 64 bit... with the bootcamp failing to properly set it up so although it technically "erased" the partition to prepare for windows... the Win install seemed to install fine without boot camp's help. I never installed drivers off the OS X CD and simply downloaded them directly from nVidia, realtek. XP had both my Apple wireless mouth and keyboard running. I simply have to Ctrl+Cmd+P+R to reboot into Mac.

These installs were both onto separate blank drives in my new Mac Pro, not onto my OS X drive... so it wasn't partitioning, just a clean install.

VERY interesting... Has anyone ever tried this with Windows XP Pro 32-bit or Vista Ultimate 32-bit?

[balamw]

VERY interesting... Has anyone ever tried this with Windows XP Pro 32-bit or Vista Ultimate 32-bit?

Why are you having such a hard time understanding the answer is yes.

Any Mac with Boot Camp compatible firmware will boot legacy operating systems through BIOS emulation. That includes Linux, XP, Vista, etc....

The forums are rife with success stories of folks installing Windows without Boot Camp holding their hand.

Repeat after me: Boot Camp Assistant is just a pretty face to repartition your hard drive and prompt you for the right kind of Windows install disc to keep it simple (SP2 single-disc retail) and preserve your ability to dual boot OS X and Windows.

You can boot OS X from MBR, you can boot Windows from MBR, you can boot Linux from MBR.

I've installed XP Upgrade, others have installed MCE, Linux, etc... on their Macs.

WARNING: If you go down this path (format your internal drive with an MBR partition table only) and do not have a Mac Pro or Macbook with easily removable drive, or do not have OS X on an external drive you may run into issues when a firmware update is released.

B

[zmunkz]

I didn't read through this whole thread, so I am sure this has already been said.... But I know you can have only windows if you have an extra HDD to set it up with.

I know this *not* because I wanted to set it up this way, but due to an issue with Bootcamp, I can only boot into windows if I physically unplug both hard drives associated with OSX, and turn on the computer with only my windows HD. When I do that, there is only a windows OS in there... no mac anywhere.

Dunno if that helps...

[jbg232]

Ok, so I did a ton more research on the topic and figured it out.

Here's the answer to the original question of how to install windows only to your mac (three different setups but the same point in all of them):

XP on Macbook Pro (http://ricardocabello.com/?postid=451)
Vista on Macbook Pro (http://serialseb.blogspot.com/2007/12/how-to-wipe-mac-os-out-of-your-macbook.html)
Vista on Macbook Air (http://www.topxml.com/rbnews/Biztalk-Adapters/re-80964_Installing-Vista-on-a-MacBook-Air.aspx)

Although there do seem to be two different approaches:

1. Load leopard DVD from bootup -> go to diskutil -> delete all partitions -> create mbr windows partition (fat32 or ntfs) -> restart with windows dvd and install

2. Install bootcamp 2.0 from leopard DVD -> reboot with vista dvd (I guess this method only works with vista) -> go to recovery console of vista setup -> type diskpart to start the disk management utility -> format hdd completely -> convert your drive to MBR by doing a select drive 0 and convert mbr



Just a few more questions (mostly to balamw):

1. How important would it be to keep the ability to have firmware updates - ie. how often does the firmware get updated, and what do the updates entail?

2. I got conflicting answers regarding the gpt installation. If I clear the gpt partition from the hdd, is there any way to install a gpt partition later on? mac os x later on (on an external drive if necessary)? The article you quoted seems to suggest no (because you need gpt partition to install mac os x, but doesn't say how to get gpt partition/formatting back).

[balamw]

Just a few more questions (mostly to balamw):

1. How important would it be to keep the ability to have firmware updates - ie. how often does the firmware get updated, and what do the updates entail?

2. I got conflicting answers regarding the gpt installation. If I clear the gpt partition from the hdd, is there any way to install a gpt partition later on? mac os x later on (on an external drive if necessary)? The article you quoted seems to suggest no (because you need gpt partition to install mac os x, but doesn't say how to get gpt partition/formatting back).

There have been a few firmware updates for the Intel Macs, these tend to affect things like power management, fan control, enabling Boot Camp, etc... These are equivalent to a BIOS update on a PC, i.e. something you may not have to do very often, but when you need it, you need it.

Just like you blew away the GPT partition table to create a new MBR partition table, you can do the opposite with Disk Utility. You should be able to boot OS X from the install DVD, at least to the point of running Disk Utility, wipe the drive and install a new GPT partition table, then re-install OS X from scratch, but wouldn't it just be easier to have a bootable, GPT partitioned, external drive already on hand for when you needed it?

I know you don't want to discuss it, but why? You could just preserve a minimal OS X install on the internal, set the boot preference to default the boot to Windows and lose nothing but a few GB on your HDD. When/if you choose to boot OS X, just hold down option.

B

[jbg232]

I know you don't want to discuss it, but why? You could just preserve a minimal OS X install on the internal, set the boot preference to default the boot to Windows and lose nothing but a few GB on your HDD. When/if you choose to boot OS X, just hold down option.


Because I'm still deciding if this is going to be done on a macbook air, macbook pro, or macbook if it's done at all. If it's the air I want to get all the hard drive space I can (especially if I get the ssd).

[balamw]

Because I'm still deciding if this is going to be done on a macbook air, macbook pro, or macbook if it's done at all. If it's the air I want to get all the hard drive space I can (especially if I get the ssd).

More the reason to spend <$100 more to have a bootable external ON HAND, UP FRONT, you'll need some backup method, right?

B

[jbg232]

More the reason to spend <$100 more to have a bootable external ON HAND, UP FRONT, you'll need some backup method, right?


Well I currently have a 750GB external HFS+ formatted for time machine, but if I installed only windows I would want to reformat it to ntfs and thus could not install mac os on it right? The prospect of buying another drive (hfs+ formatted) solely for the ultimate purpose of firmware updating seems a little strange to me, but it is a valid point.

I guess it would be done like this:
1. I Realize I need a firmware update
2. Plug in external drive
3. Load with option-select to external drive and wait forever for os x to load
4. Update firmware from apple's website (I've never done a firmware update, is it in software update or like flashing a bios?)
5. Unplug drive
6. Restart computer

Question: How would I load os x onto the external hdd in the first place? Will leopard dvd on bootup recognize external hard drive and install to that? I guess I might have to diskutil it and add a gpt component, correct?

[balamw]

Well I currently have a 750GB external HFS+ formatted for time machine, but if I installed only windows I would want to reformat it to ntfs and thus could not install mac os on it right? The prospect of buying another drive (hfs+ formatted) solely for the ultimate purpose of firmware updating seems a little strange to me, but it is a valid point.

I guess it would be done like this:
1. I Realize I need a firmware update
2. Plug in external drive
3. Load with option-select to external drive and wait forever for os x to load
4. Update firmware from apple's website (I've never done a firmware update, is it in software update or like flashing a bios?)
5. Unplug drive
6. Restart computer

Question: How would I load os x onto the external hdd in the first place? Will leopard dvd on bootup recognize external hard drive and install to that? I guess I might have to diskutil it and add a gpt component, correct?

The point isn't just firmware updates alone, it's preserving the ability to boot a $3000 hardware system (assuming MBA SSD) to the OS it was designed for, for whatever reason that might be.

Firmware updates are just the only thing that are KNOWN not to work if you do not have a bootable drive with the (empty) EFI partition. Once you have a way of booting OS X, you can feel free to remove it from the internal put away the external and hope you never have to use it. If you were doing this with a Mac Pro or Macbook the easiest solution is to buy a separate drive for your Windows adventure and just shelve the original drive for a rainy day. This is not likely with the MBA SSD since you would not be able to buy a spare drive so inexpensively, or the MBP or iMac since it is hard to access the HDD in those systems.

You could probably just repartition your Time Machine drive Boot Camp style, small bootable HFS+ partition with a large NTFS partition behind it. I'm not sure Boot Camp Assistant can do this for you, but you should be able to find a guide to do it manually.

And yes the OS X installer has no problems installing to an external from scratch. By default, if you let it at a fresh drive it will use a GPT partition table, just because it is that much better than MBR. You just don't want to have to deal with learning about that when you need it.

Firmware updates come in via Software Update and usually take hold on the next boot of OS X, but if you don't occasionally boot to OS X, you might not know about the updates....

B

[gnasher729]

Many thanks for the reply,yes im aware that alot of people have tried and possibly failed to get windows to boot from a external.But this way would be different as windows & drivers would be
installed while the drive is still in the Mac then taken out and put in a external rather than cloned

From what I have heard, one of the problems is that the BIOS has a (primitive) USB driver, uses it to start booting from the external disk, at some point it finds a better USB driver in Windows on the external disk, and then it tries to turn off the primitive driver and switch to the new one - at that point things go badly wrong, because it has just turned off the USB driver it uses to boot from the external hard drive.

No idea if Windows can boot from an external Firewire disk.

[jbg232]

Ok, one more question then:

If I do this and completely delete mac os and then install windows and then load up the leopard dvd to install the windows drivers, will that include support for the special keys (media, volume, screen, eject, etc.) or will that require a firmware update?

Edit:
On further thought, will I have any access to bootcamp control panel properties? Is there any way to install this control panel applet (see attachment) if I do a clean format and install without using bootcamp?

[Stridder44]

Also wrong. You just install the drivers from the Leopard install disk. No problem at all.


So I have a question, I see that you install the drivers via the Leopard disc, but what about driver updates? How do you get them? In OS X? Does Windows see them and prompt you to update them?

[jbg232]

You can install updated drivers by getting them through the internet (or wherever) just like you were using a regular windows pc.

[Quillz]

So, just to be sure, it's completely safe to erase all the internal partitions on my MacBook, including the EFI/Boot Camp partitions? I do have an external drive, so if I ever wanted Mac OS X, I just boot to an external and work from there, right?

[mreg376]

As the title suggests, is it possible to install JUST windows? I was thinking it might be possible to boot from a windows xp cd, format the hard drive and just install windows and then use the drivers from the leopard dvd that comes with the mac. Is this possible?

And please, I don't want any responses of why it's stupid to do this or why I would be getting a mac when I want a windows machine, the question is purely philosophical so save the rants for other posts. Thanks.

At J&R Computer World in Manhattan they have a 24" Imac that boots up only into Windows XP. I know that because I was curious as to why I couldn't find OS X on the machine, and rebooted it myself. Came back up only in XP. So I would say the answer is yes.

BTW, why would you be getting a Mac if you want a Windows machine? :)

[Neil321]

At J&R Computer World in Manhattan they have a 24" Imac that boots up only into Windows XP. I know that because I was curious as to why I couldn't find OS X on the machine, and rebooted it myself. Came back up only in XP. So I would say the answer is yes.

BTW, why would you be getting a Mac if you want a Windows machine? :)

So what happens when apple release a firmware update?

[brand]

No, it is not. The system is configured for a Mac OS. Remember, Apple is not "open source" like a PC is.

This statement is incorrect in several ways. Care to explain ho PCs are open source?

[maxshanly]

It is possible, I did it by accident at work whilst trying to work out how to clone a Novell ZenWorks Image onto a Mac mini.

[brand]

clone a Novell ZenWorks Image onto a Mac mini.

How did that go for you?

Right now we run ZENworks Desktop Management 7 with about 4000 workstations. We just created a new eDirectory tree and are currently migrating ZENwork Configuration Management.

[maxshanly]

How did that go for you?

Right now we run ZENworks Desktop Management 7 with about 4000 workstations. We just created a new eDirectory tree and are currently migrating ZENwork Configuration Management.

We had loads of problems and I won't know for definate if the new method I tried has worked until I go into work later today. When I first did it because it was converting partitions from FAT32 it some how wiped the OS X partition.

Myself and my colleague tried various methods that we found off the web on how to apply the image to the Boot Camp partition but they were either too complicated or to time consuming. In the end the big problem was that to image onto it it needed to be an NTFS partition as having it as a FAT32 partition just caused problems when applying the image.

So we booted into an XP Installation Disk and started the installation, after it had started to install some files on the partition (still as FAT32) we turned the Mac mini off and rebooted into the disk again. From there we ran recovery console and formatted and converted the partition from there.

Needless to say it actually showed up on the option screen on boot, which was good as this hadn't happened before. It was getting late so we just set the image to install and then we left for the weekend.

I will know if it had worked around 12 PM today. I'l come back and say whether it did or not then. :)

P.S: If this has worked I shall be writing up a guide.

[louden]

It should be possible with Vista (which is EFI-aware out of the box), but you'll run into some difficulties down the road if Apple ever issues a firmware update for your computer...

Actually, Vista wasn't EFI ready until SP1 came out, so you'd need to find a Vista+SP1 installation disk. I haven't tried it, but it should work... You'd still want the Bootcamp disk for drivers.