Best place to get Windows XP service pack 2??? [Archive]

Mr. Zarniwoop

Feb 25, 2008, 06:45 PM

I am new to this forum and wondering what is the best way to get my hands on the windows xp service pack 2 so I can run bootcamp on my macbook pro?
Typically, you'd need to buy a copy of Windows XP, either Home Edition or Professional are supported by Apple Boot Camp. Here's an Windows XP Comparison Guide (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/choosing2.mspx) between Home Edition and Professional.

What are the things I should watch out for?
Don't get the 64-bit Edition (for Itanium-based workstations), x64 Edition (no Boot Camp driver support even if you have a 64-bit Mac Pro), Media Center or Tablet PC Editions (those last two probably can be made to work, but Apple doesn't support them).

Also, you can't use an upgrade version because you can't eject the CD to validate the product being upgraded.

Lastly, if you buy a pre-SP2 copy (original or SP1) then you have to make your own SP2 installation CD through a process called slipstreaming (http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_sp2_slipstream.asp) as the Mac needs driver support that came in SP2.

Can I use someone else's copy?

Do I have to get my own?
In general, you need to have your own license for Boot Camp as Microsoft XP uses product activation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_activation) to make sure you're running a legitimate licensed copy. There are hacks to get pirated copies of Windows working, but inevitably some update from Microsoft gets released and the stolen copy stops working. They do then offer to sell you a legit license over the Internet though. :D

Can it be any copy of Windows XP? does it have to be specifically for a Mac?
There is no special Mac version of Windows XP. The cheapest approach is to buy an OEM version (~$90 for Home Edition, ~$140 for Professional), which once activated will be tied to your Mac, cannot be transferred to another computer, and does not entitle you to any support from Microsoft.

Retail (non-OEM) editions cost about twice as much, do let you transfer the license to another computer if you uninstall it from the first, and come with support from Microsoft. Otherwise, OEM vs. Retail are the same.

Koodauw

Feb 25, 2008, 06:48 PM

I would check out ebay. I got one on there at christmas time for about $80 shipped.

GreatDrok

Feb 25, 2008, 06:54 PM

Be careful buying OEM versions of Ebay. I bought one and it was fine for about a year and then WGA popped up claiming that my copy was using a discontinued VLK.

I've simply wiped that install, reinstalled and now won't let the thing install WGA. It functions and does automatic updates. Just Windows Update that doesn't work because it insists on WGA.

TEG

Feb 25, 2008, 06:56 PM

Get an OEM version from www.newegg.com (http://www.newegg.com)

You can only use OEMs if you are building a computer. Just go out and buy a legit copy of XP Pro in any store (it will be SP2).

TEG

autumn

Feb 25, 2008, 08:52 PM

Check out your local craigslists. I got mine yesterday for $45. Pro SP2 that is. Installed it last night and no problem.

Playing Orange Box now...:D

Just be careful not to get the branded ones..like for Dell only and stuff.

balamw

Feb 25, 2008, 09:22 PM

You can only use OEMs if you are building a computer. Just go out and buy a legit copy of XP Pro in any store (it will be SP2).

TEG

While I agree with you that buying retail is clearly legit, the terms of the System Builder License remain somewhat murky. So much so that MS has to blog about it trying to counter BSA FUD.

http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2007/02/18/oem-microsoft-software-clarifications-plus-if-it-s-labeled-oem-you-should-stay-away-from-that-neil-macbride-of-the-bsa-business-software-alliance-about-buying-software-online.aspx

My interpretation (note: IANAL) of the SBL implies that many of its restrictions kick in only when you redistribute the license and thus would not generally apply to someone that is building a system they intend to use. (including the act of installing OEM software on a fully assembled PC, as "System Builder" has usually been defined as including "software installer").

I'm not alone in that interpretation: http://windowssecrets.com/2007/06/07/03-Get-OEM-discounts-when-you-upgrade-your-PC

Note too that as the System Builder you are responsible for primary support of any licenses you redistribute, so beware if you install OEM and sell your Mac, but if all you are doing is installing Windows for personal use and you don't need support form Microsoft...

B

hodgjy

Feb 25, 2008, 09:41 PM

Yes, thank you. The EULA for OEM Microsoft products is pretty ambiguous. You could easily argue that you are building a system, albeit a virtual system. Plus, like as was stated, a lot of the "Builder" OEM EULA only kicks in when you distribute (i.e., sell) the system and included software.

Obviously, Dell, HP, Gateway, etc., have licensing deals with Microsoft at what is probably a reduced cost because they deal in such high volumes. System builders buying from Newegg are obviously much smaller operations, which is why Microsoft sells OEM software over the counter. Basically, so mom and pop operations can build, sell, and support computer systems.

So much so that MS has to blog about it trying to counter BSA FUD.

My interpretation (note: IANAL) of the SBL implies that many of its restrictions kick in only when you redistribute the license and thus would not generally apply to someone that is building a system they intend to use. (including the act of installing OEM software on a fully assembled PC, as "System Builder" has usually been defined as including "software installer").

I'm not alone in that interpretation: http://windowssecrets.com/2007/06/07/03-Get-OEM-discounts-when-you-upgrade-your-PC

B

jrigwald

Feb 25, 2008, 10:48 PM

Thanks everyone for the fantastic info.

Now I'm wondering how vulnerable my computer will be to viruses when I run download things on the windows side.

Do I have to do anything in particular to protect myself?:confused:

hodgjy

Feb 25, 2008, 10:52 PM

Do I have to do anything in particular to protect myself?:confused:

The same as you would with any Windows standalone machine:

Virus checker
Anti-spyware/Anti-malware
Firewall
Common sense

Mr. Zarniwoop

Feb 25, 2008, 11:26 PM

Now I'm wondering how vulnerable my computer will be to viruses when I run download things on the windows side.
Yes. You should get something if you're going to be downloading Windows programs from who-knows-where. The most popular free product is AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition (http://free.grisoft.com/doc/download-free-anti-virus/us/frt/0). It's also probably the least annoying free product, which might explain its popularity, although it's still just a little bit annoying.

In the US, the most popular consumer commercial product is Norton AntiVirus 2008 (http://www.symantec.com/norton/products/overview.jsp?pcid=is&pvid=nav2008) (~$40 for 1 year, current promotion for 50% off), but I personally like Kaspersky Anti-Virus 7.0 (http://usa.kaspersky.com/products_services/anti-virus.php) (~$60 for 1 year, but if you hunt around you can usually find 20-25% off deals on the coupon sites).

Here's a story (http://blogs.pcmag.com/securitywatch/2008/01/antimalware_performance_testin.php) on the most recent (2008.01.22) AV-Test (http://www.av-test.org/) comparison of how well all the current anti-malware products work.

balamw

Feb 26, 2008, 12:24 AM

System builders buying from Newegg are obviously much smaller operations, which is why Microsoft sells OEM software over the counter. Basically, so mom and pop operations can build, sell, and support computer systems.

Strictly speaking, Microsoft doesn't sell OEM software except to a few key distributors, however they allow redistribution of unopened licenses from one system builder to another, which is how Newegg et al sell OEM copies to the mom-and-pop operations and individual system builders.

Essentially though if you really want to probe the limits of the EULA, you'll need an attorney to help interpret all the legalese, and ultimately a court in which to test them. Which of course is the main reason for any agreement, anything to keep the lawyers rich. :p

B

hodgjy

Feb 26, 2008, 12:50 AM

You learn something new every day. Thanks. I thought Microsoft was helping the mom and pops out there. I had no idea that Newegg et al. was "allowed" to resell unsold OEM copies that MS sold to them. I thought Newegg et al. was just a distributer for Microsoft's OEM program (different from reselling as noted above).

jrigwald

Mar 2, 2008, 01:43 PM

Mr. Zarniwoop

Mar 2, 2008, 03:29 PM

So do I have to buy the full version or can I buy the upgrade version? Just to remind you, I don't have anything right now and I would only be using it to download music tablature off the internet.

I went to office depot and they had the upgrade for $99.99 and the full version for 199.99
Upgrade versions of Windows can't get installed under Boot Camp. You can't validate the upgrade under Windows, because during install the Apple Keyboard driver isn't loaded yet and you cannot eject the CD to put in a CD of an upgrade-qualifying product during the install.

An OEM copy of XP Professional is around $140, or $90 for Home Edition, that's the cheapest approach although the terms of the license are non-transferable to a new computer in the future once you install it on your Mac.

stainlessliquid

Mar 2, 2008, 05:48 PM

Get OEM. Dont get Professional, 99% of people who get Professional dont use the features that actually make it different than the Home version (it mainly just has network administration extras). Media Center is the best version of XP, it comes with media center as well as a glossy UI skin that looks way better than the standard XP playskool crap (which you can download and install on other copies of XP but it can be tricky to find), among other things.

Mr. Zarniwoop

Mar 3, 2008, 09:46 AM

Get OEM. Dont get Professional, 99% of people who get Professional dont use the features that actually make it different than the Home version (it mainly just has network administration extras).
Here's a chart with the differences between Windows XP Home Edition and Professional Edition (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/howtobuy/choosing2.mspx). Another bit that may matter to some Mac owners is that Home Edition supports only one CPU while Professional can support two.

Media Center is the best version of XP, it comes with media center as well as a glossy UI skin that looks way better than the standard XP playskool crap (which you can download and install on other copies of XP but it can be tricky to find), among other things.

The theme you're referring to is called Royale/Energy Blue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Blue), it's a bit more of a contemporary glossy feel. Microsoft New Zealand had it up for download for a bit, here it is for download on Softpedia (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Enhancements/Themes/Royale-Theme-for-WinXP.shtml). It works fine with any flavor of XP.

Other than that, I'm not sure Mac owners would get much befit from Media Center. I would characterize it as an uglier-worser version of Front Row. :(

MacSchwigg

Mar 5, 2008, 10:05 AM

Another bit that may matter to some Mac owners is that Home Edition supports only one CPU while Professional can support two.

Sorry if this is a little dense of me, but I'm considering buying a copy of XP Home for use with Boot Camp on my MBP and thought I'd clarify... a Core 2 Duo processor counts as just one CPU, right? I assume you're talking about CPUs, not cores.

Mr. Zarniwoop

Mar 5, 2008, 10:33 AM

Sorry if this is a little dense of me, but I'm considering buying a copy of XP Home for use with Boot Camp on my MBP and thought I'd clarify... a Core 2 Duo processor counts as just one CPU, right? I assume you're talking about CPUs, not cores.
You're not dense at all! Microsoft licensing (and the HAL code that is executed because of that licensing) is tied to physical processor sockets (http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/multicore.mspx). I'm not kidding.

Microsoft Windows XP Home: supports one physical processor socket (i.e. one CPU only, regardless of the number of cores in that one CPU)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional: supports one or two physical processor sockets (i.e. up to two CPUs, regardless of the number of cores in each CPU)

P.S. Their flavors of Windows XP get even more fun when it comes to Microsoft Windows Server 20003. There are seven different flavors. Depending on the edition, it supports up to 2-, 4-, 8-, 16-, or 32-way SMP processing, referring to the number of cores, but is then separately licensed (and enforced by the HAL driver) by physical CPU.

docseuss68

Mar 5, 2008, 01:03 PM

Mr. Zarniwoop

Mar 5, 2008, 01:29 PM

Looking for some clarification on OEM version of Windows. Are the restrictions imposed only legal, or are there also system restriction (such as an activation code that could only be used a certain number of times). If I needed to do an erase and install sometime in the future on the same computer, is that allowed (legal) and possible?
You can reinstall, reactivate, and revalidate an OEM Windows XP/Vista license on the same system, and it will let you do so usually without issues. If it detects that you're trying to do it on new hardware, say a new motherboard, and that activation code was used before, it will refuse activation.

I have found in those cases, if you call them (the phone number is on the screen when activation is refused) they will give you a new activation code that will allow activation as long as your story seems normal. "I was just trying to reinstall on the same PC."

pikafumanchu

Mar 5, 2008, 01:30 PM

Funny thing about Windows. My old roommate and I both have Intel MBP. I wanted to dualboot, but was very unsure about the process, and didn't want to pay however much money. So, my roommate, who was wealthy, bought a legit copy at Circuit City or something of XP Home.

He installed it, and it worked wonderfully. I installed it and when it came time to validate the software, I decided to call it in. On the phone with the person, I originally tried lying saying I'm installing it onto a new computer since my old computer died. That wasn't allowed, so I hung up.

Now, I should mention that when you first call in, it asks you to enter in a code that is on the screen. I entered this in and it said the device was already registered or something. So I clicked on the button that said refresh (or something similar), and it gave me a new code. I entered that code in and voilà, I had a fully functioning copy of XP Home, SP2.

I guess what happened was that the original code they gave me was also for my roommate's. When I clicked on refresh (which the screen says to ONLY do if you are instructed by an operator), it gave me a completely unrelated one.

Moral of the story: if you know someone with a store-bought copy, try it out. It definitely can't hurt.

Moral of the story 2: dumb luck is a great thing. ;)

hodgjy

Mar 5, 2008, 01:43 PM

Posting piracy threads is strictly against forum rules. See the sticky note at the top of the Windows on the Mac thread.

Funny thing about Windows. My old roommate and I both have Intel MBP. I wanted to dualboot, but was very unsure about the process, and didn't want to pay however much money. So, my roommate, who was wealthy, bought a legit copy at Circuit City or something of XP Home.

He installed it, and it worked wonderfully. I installed it and when it came time to validate the software, I decided to call it in. On the phone with the person, I originally tried lying saying I'm installing it onto a new computer since my old computer died. That wasn't allowed, so I hung up.

Now, I should mention that when you first call in, it asks you to enter in a code that is on the screen. I entered this in and it said the device was already registered or something. So I clicked on the button that said refresh (or something similar), and it gave me a new code. I entered that code in and voilà, I had a fully functioning copy of XP Home, SP2.

I guess what happened was that the original code they gave me was also for my roommate's. When I clicked on refresh (which the screen says to ONLY do if you are instructed by an operator), it gave me a completely unrelated one.

Moral of the story: if you know someone with a store-bought copy, try it out. It definitely can't hurt.

Moral of the story 2: dumb luck is a great thing. ;)

cheeseadiddle

Mar 5, 2008, 01:48 PM

Get an OEM version from www.newegg.com

Just got one in the mail from them today. Ordered on Sat.

OdduWon

Apr 2, 2008, 02:00 PM

You're not dense at all! Microsoft licensing (and the HAL code that is executed because of that licensing) is tied to physical processor sockets (http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/multicore.mspx). I'm not kidding.

Microsoft Windows XP Home: supports one physical processor socket (i.e. one CPU only, regardless of the number of cores in that one CPU)

Microsoft Windows XP Professional: supports one or two physical processor sockets (i.e. up to two CPUs, regardless of the number of cores in each CPU)

P.S. Their flavors of Windows XP get even more fun when it comes to Microsoft Windows Server 20003. There are seven different flavors. Depending on the edition, it supports up to 2-, 4-, 8-, 16-, or 32-way SMP processing, referring to the number of cores, but is then separately licensed (and enforced by the HAL driver) by physical CPU.

So XP home is suitable for all single socketed computers, regardless of core count?

From the chart above, (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/howtobuy/choosing2.mspx) it seems that XP Pro is the option for people wanting to use remote features and MS supported tools.

For my needs (ACAD, Revit, 3Ds Max,), is XP Home adequate? I only need windows for my one machine (MBP 2.5), though reinstalling on my other machine (POS) would be helpful, if it decides to stop working.

Is OEM the best option regarding usability, for the described programs/needs? or is a "retail" version a better choice?

iFizz

Apr 2, 2008, 02:04 PM

I've heard two rumors recently. Can anyone verify these:

1) Win XP SP3 is coming soon.
2) MS will stop selling Win XP in June.

steveza

Apr 2, 2008, 04:02 PM

Well . . .

I've heard two rumors recently. Can anyone verify these:

1) Win XP SP3 is coming soon. True
2) MS will stop selling Win XP in June.I'm not so sure - most enterprise customers aren't going to switch to Vista this year

mrwizardno2

Apr 2, 2008, 04:04 PM

He's right about XP EOL in June. See the MS link

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx

steveza

Apr 2, 2008, 04:16 PM

I see what you are saying - I was thinking more along the lines of the end column. So you will still be able to buy machines with XP pre-installed but not OEM and boxed products.

morespce54

Apr 2, 2008, 04:56 PM

I see what you are saying - I was thinking more along the lines of the end column. So you will still be able to buy machines with XP pre-installed but not OEM and boxed products.

That's (kind of) funny. And what are they going to do with the leftovers?
Burn them or "slipstream" them to "upgrade" them into Vista versions? ;)

steveza

Apr 2, 2008, 04:58 PM

That's (kind of) funny. And what are they going to do with the leftovers?
Burn them or "slipstream" them to "upgrade" them into Vista versions? ;)Don't you know??? BillyG has got his own eBay account and he's going to stick the spares on there :)

Wallace86

Apr 3, 2008, 12:47 AM

If I buy SP2 now, oem off of newegg, will it auto update to service pack 3 when that is released?

The Flashing Fi

Apr 3, 2008, 01:01 AM

If I buy SP2 now, oem off of newegg, will it auto update to service pack 3 when that is released?

Yes.

iFizz

Apr 3, 2008, 01:39 AM

If I buy SP2 now, oem off of newegg, will it auto update to service pack 3 when that is released?

Yes, but unless you need it right now, it would be more convenient to just wait until they are selling XP SP3. That would save you from having to download SP3 every time you re-install XP. It would all be in one place, right there on the installation disc. Just a convenience thing though...not a big deal.

OdduWon

Apr 3, 2008, 02:00 PM

Yes, but unless you need it right now, it would be more convenient to just wait until they are selling XP SP3. That would save you from having to download SP3 every time you re-install XP. It would all be in one place, right there on the installation disc. Just a convenience thing though...not a big deal.

Does/will BOOTCAMP support sp3 discs?

steveza

Apr 4, 2008, 03:42 AM

Does/will BOOTCAMP support sp3 discs?

XP SP2 is a minimum requirement for boot camp so SP3 should work.

mreg376

Apr 4, 2008, 08:03 AM

...Also, you can't use an upgrade version because you can't eject the CD to validate the product being upgraded...

You CAN use an upgrade version when installing Windows under VMFusion, as long as you realize that Fusion has taken control of the CD drive by then and you have to do the eject with the Windows window active. I did it and it worked just fine, once I realized that Fusion and the Mac can trade control of the hardware.

Mr. Zarniwoop

Apr 4, 2008, 09:04 AM

You CAN use an upgrade version when installing Windows under VMFusion
I was answering a question regarding Boot Camp.

Under VMware, you can run just about any flavor of Windows, or even DOS, you can get your hands on! I set up a Windows 3.1 VM a while back...

mreg376

Apr 4, 2008, 09:14 AM

I was answering a question regarding Boot Camp.

Under VMware, you can run just about any flavor of Windows, or even DOS, you can get your hands on! I set up a Windows 3.1 VM a while back...

I know. That's why I mentioned Fusion, lest there be any confusion. In fact, why do people bother with bootcamp at all with Fusion around, except for the fact that it's free/included? (Fusion costs all of about $35 at Amazon now including a rebate.)

OdduWon

Apr 8, 2008, 01:07 PM

Bought XP sp2 PRO retail last night from newegg.

Why PRO over Home?

My decision to go for pro was based on two things: First, the though that of the XP family, I believe pro will have it's support dropped last, or at least after Home. Second I was going to wait till xp3, but it's newly designed activation seems like it will either cause problems or delays, or both for bootcamp users.

Why RETAIL over OEM?

Well, as often as my older windows system was down, having the assurance that you have an legit program, and employment of that program, is worth the extra price. Plus, what happens if you get you MBP mother board replaced, or a entirely new unit through Apple care? If i understand correctly, if MS wanted to enforce the OEM EULA then you cannot put your used OEM on that "new" computer, Unless you call Redmond :rolleyes:.

I will be using this XP on my MBP 2.5 GHZ and running Autodesk REVIT (arch), 3DS max, and Acad 09.

Let the CADding begin! :D

XP vs Home chart (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=5254188#post5254188)