More Portable Player Competition

Those prices on the DJ are gonna grab a lot of customers. I am betting it won't be near the quality of the iPod, but I think Apple best find some ways to cut costs on it anyway.

Dan

It is getting crowded in here!

This is interesting as MS have tried to do the same in the mobile phone OS arena to mixed results.

The new competition will be good, Apple need to keep focused on getting standards strongly used to avoid being muscled out.

Note to Mr S Jobs, I'll help you in funding this growth if you'll bring the iTunes Store to the UK

Originally posted by alset
Those prices on the DJ are gonna grab a lot of customers. I am betting it won't be near the quality of the iPod, but I think Apple best find some ways to cut costs on it anyway.

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i agree. apple needs to add more basic features built-in to the next generation ipod (fm tuner, quality line in recording) and cut the cost a bit.
i can live without the tv/video viewer... but many people will love that.

Originally posted by arn
WindowsCE was also a similar attempt.

arn

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Yeah, and the only people who got behind that one were the Flash and RAM manufacturers... =)

Apple should act now and steal Dell's thunder, they should do an immediate $50 price drop, this would quickly blur the lines on price. The iPod has the better name recognition, so if it can be just as cheap as Dell's model, then people will choose the iPod over some unheard of Dell.

You need to understand M$'s screwed up mentality...

They want CONTROL OF EVERYTHING!! In their paranoia they must not give in one inch, because it may mean them losing marketshare.

They have the midset to crush the iPod by stealing its looks, its originality, its innovation, and do the same to its accompanying music service all the while undercutting it's prices (and you can bet if they need to cut prices to the bone M$ has the "extra funds" to help out).

You know as well as I do that those idoits couldn't innovate themselves out of a paper bag, but following after Apple's lead, and style they may be able to achieve it.

Wonder how long some of these are going to last because there's no way all of these can stick around. There just seems to be too many (and there could be more to come) for all these companies to be profitable.

Originally posted by poultryfarm
i agree. apple needs to add more basic features built-in to the next generation ipod (fm tuner, quality line in recording) and cut the cost a bit.
i can live without the tv/video viewer... but many people will love that.

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People just don't get it. One last time. PRICE MATTERS!!!

Heck I like the new Prius hybrid electric with GPS but I’m not going to go out and buy one because they are too expensive right now.

Adding an *** load of features still gives you......an expensive device.
Lets look at the Dell. $50 cheaper then the cheapest iPod and:
Gives you 5GB more space
Gives you, potentially, longer listening time.

Apple needs to drop their prices not add features.

Re: You need to understand M$'s screwed up mentality...

Originally posted by tazznb
They want CONTROL OF EVERYTHING!! In their paranoia they must not give in one inch, because it may mean them losing marketshare.

They have the midset to crush the iPod by stealing its looks, its originality, its innovation, and do the same to its accompanying music service all the while undercutting it's prices (and you can bet if they need to cut prices to the bone M$ has the "extra funds" to help out).

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Never mind the fact that MS isn't making a music player.

But other then that I agree paranoia is the root problem with MS.

Well; Sony has had an all around similar portable system that is waiting for launch by the end of next year (why they wait so long is beyond me) It's going to be called the PSP (playstation portable) New format for watching movies on the go and the ability to play games and music on the go. This move on Microsofts part is to combat both the popularity of the Ipod and to compete with sony on the all around gaming/music/movie portable solution.
As far as I'm concerned; I'm sticking to the ipod for my music needs; I have the original ipod (5gb) ever since it was launched and along with Itunes and ephod software I think it's the best solution for portable music on the go. As far as all the other uses; portable HD that can pretty much store anything; the contacts; it's a very handy all around device and it's so well designed that it handles it's features flawlessly.
There's no need for me to be swayed to this new stuff because Apple just did it so right; so right that I didn't even see the need to upgrade to a 15gb or 30gb slimmer ipods.
I say let microsoft (micro-is-soft) and Dell (Dwell) come out with their devices; there's nothing attractive about them at all. Now the Sony PSP is something to lookout for!!!! I've always loved sony; before the i-pod the Mini-disc player rocked!!! If sony and Apple would team up (hint hint) can you imagine the innovation and outstanding product that would hit the market as a result of both of their efforts (sony has always had it's own style and apple defines style/sony has gaming in it's palm and apple could benefit from that)
We can dream cant we!!!!!

Dont forget the iGP-100 1.5GB MP3 player

http://www.iriveramerica.com/

Seems like they're breeding. Good/bad/ugly, it doesn't matter. Just get it to market!

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
People just don't get it. One last time. PRICE MATTERS!!!

Adding an *** load of features still gives you......an expensive device.
Lets look at the Dell. $50 cheaper then the cheapest iPod and:
Gives you 5GB more space
Gives you, potentially, longer listening time.
Apple needs to drop their prices not add features.

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I constantly think price matters to a degree, however compared to cars the cheap models can't compare to the full featured models, and don't have to do so. For those who ever used a Sonic Blue Rio....I can possitively tell you they "sucked balls", I could go into the various reasons why they did, but that is still missing the point. Which is price.

Price matters to the Walmart generation yes, however do you see Lindows out selling even apple yet? The reality to the whole point is, that although those who are discount hungry put a considerable emphasis on price. Price isn't the whole story. Just like the car comparison, the vehicles with no options which are price leaders may attract attention, but when you see what you really get, that $50 doesn't make a big difference.

I went shopping for a new TV last weekend, I wanted a basic TV with minimal features, apprx 27" in size, and a complete set of input jacks. The price point was from $200 to $279 depending on brand. However I could have had a pure flat screen for another $80 to $100 bucks. I thought, how important a flat screen picture tube(of course a new buzzword)was to me. Was it worth an additonal $100, well to me no. However, if it was only $50 I would have said sure no problem.

What I am getting at is that features do indeed make the sale, in cars it is color & options. Some people in fact pay up to $1000 more for the right color. In TV's it is options, & connectivity. In MP3 Players, I would want features, and ease of use. I know several others who had Rio players, and it will be when hell freezes over that they will buy another one. Bad products can't sell themselves, Apple consistantly gives users a premium experience at a solid price point.

If you can convince the Harley motorcycle riders, that their $10,000 Soft tail isn't worth it when compared to Suzuki then your point may hold water, but not after then.

Re: Re: You need to understand M$'s screwed up mentality...

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Never mind the fact that MS isn't making a music player.

But other then that I agree paranoia is the root problem with MS.

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This is the point of frustration to me. Yesterday Microsoft "announces" two products that are expected to come out "in future releases" (Longhorn and this media thingie), and the press is all over it! It's on every news page, and MS didn't even have anything to show. They just talked about it.

Maybe I should hold a press conference about how I will be releasing floating cars, in the near future. This is only about MS trying to counter all of the announcementsa by Apple last week, and the release of Panther. It's that simple. They are trying to keep the press on them, not on Apple.

Regards,
Gus

Competing on price leads to a market that spirals down with no profits. You compete on features, quality and service and that's where Apple has traditionally done so well.

iPod sales are growing at the current price levels. Until they start dipping, it would be stupid for Apple to enter into a price war.

In other news, Sony announced that they were laying off 20,000 workers today because of a drop in sales and fall into loss. They blamed lack of innovation and lacklustre products, in particular, not producing flat screen LCD TVs and concentrating on CRT TVs and plasma screens.

And another thing

For those of us Rio owners, what makes the players with limited ram worthless is lack of content. I mean hello, if I could have a mp3 player or a $20 cd player with skip protection that holds 20 songs why would I pay over $80 more?

For anyone who has travelled anywhere in a car knows that even 10 cds worth of songs gets boring, but 1000 songs in your pocket is something altogether different.

I think anything less than an iPod will just piss people off, especially college kids. Sure those under 12 may not know a difference, but these cheap knock-offs is something altogether different. Beating such expectations is something not many companies can compete.

Although Sony is a good company they are stuck in a control mindset like Microsoft, in which I don't think will ever make them great. A few examples are the memory stick, and mini-disc players. Although these products were good, they only worked with sony devices hence limiting themselves to niche level. One could say this is comparable to Apple, however if Apple hasn't been adapting new technologies at the seasoned pace as they have, this claim could compare however now with USB 2.0 & bluetooth one can hardly make a protest.

Let's face it, there is alot of money to make here, Apple is a brand leader, they are consistantly delivering the best experience to consumers. Personally, I don't think any other company has the ability to blend the hardware experience with the software experience like Apple. I mean this has been their key to success thus far, and this is what the rest of the world has been missing about the Apple experience.

Time will tell, so I say bring em on.....like a warrior going into battle. Let the games begin.....(evil laugh)

Originally posted by Analog Kid
Yeah, and the only people who got behind that one were the Flash and RAM manufacturers... =)

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I think Windows CE evloved into Windows Mobile and I want one. Just waiting on the right PocketPC phone. Once Tmobile provides a Mobile 2003 OS upgrade I'm in.

One of the reasons it's taken a while is the right form factor, and the best right now, Sony, is a competitor in many areas and supports Linux and Symbian OS'. Now that others are creating better form factors, PocketPCs are much much more desireable. These things take time, but if you don't take the risk, you have not chance for a payoff.

Re: You need to understand M$'s screwed up mentality...

Originally posted by tazznb
They want CONTROL OF EVERYTHING!! In their paranoia they must not give in one inch, because it may mean them losing marketshare.

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I really don't understand this. This is part of what Microsoft does best. It's just business. They provide business solutions and development tools.

Music stores and other media stores are here to stay. Everyone who wants to get into the business may not have the resources to build the infrastructure. So there is a business for providing that infrastructure. If it boosts Microsoft's other services, tools, and media initiatives, that's good business.

Do you think Microsoft has spent so much R&D developing DRM Server for their own "Music Store." There is a big picture here and it helps others live a nice lifestyle just like Apple shareholders.

Microsoft has always enabled others, that's been their business model for a long time. Apple's business model is "All revenues to Apple." There's only one company that "Controls Everything" on their platform and that's Apple. Just ask Power Computing and Umax.

There's nothing stopping Apple from doing the same thing, but that's not the business they want to be in. They only want one iTMS (belongs to Apple), to sell one brand of music player (iPod).

edit: I think Apple could easily profilerate AAC by providing the same thing MS is providing and opening up iTunes to support everyone else's player. I'm sure other manufacturers would be happy to add an AAC-Fairplay codec at that point. But then revenues for iPods and the Apple Music Store would go down. That's not the business Apple wants.

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
People just don't get it. One last time. PRICE MATTERS!!!

Heck I like the new Prius hybrid electric with GPS but I’m not going to go out and buy one because they are too expensive right now.

Adding an *** load of features still gives you......an expensive device.
Lets look at the Dell. $50 cheaper then the cheapest iPod and:
Gives you 5GB more space
Gives you, potentially, longer listening time.

Apple needs to drop their prices not add features.

Click to expand...

siliconaddict:
reread my post. i specifically said that apple needs to "cut the cost a bit"... so i agree that cost is of importance. however, i don't think that cost is the only factor. i do think that the ipod needs to keep advancing and include some new features or more realistically apple should really push strongly for other companies to develop more accessories for the ipod.
i don't see how apple will ever win if it's just about price. they're forte is delivering exceptional products usually at a slightly higher cost than their competitors.

Look guys... sure about the price and everything.. but when you think about it... Dell's DJ aint **** compared to Apple iPod.

Think about it, i dont think Dell will have some add on third party devices added. Adding to the iPods innovation, its VERY easy to create an add-on to apple's iPod, so developers can actaully create functions for the iPod thought to be impossible. Hell did you think someone would come out with something that can store Photos while on the go? geez i dont think any "music player" can do that right now except the iPod. Apple still has the advantage, shoot im willing to bust 50 extra dollars for something thats easier, alot nicer, and worth my money. That scroll wheel on the DJ look s like it can roll right off if used dilligently. The iPods new UI with the touch-sensitive buttons will eliminate this problem. Ever had one of those old TV's and you had to press a button on it to change the channel? I did. The button sank right in and wont work anymore. it got "sticky."

Putting the iPod side by side with Dell's DJ which one are you most likely to buy even if you didnt know the price? most people who only go for price not quality will ask which is cheaper. But people who want more bam for their buck will certainly choose the appl iPod, even if it is 50 bucks more.

My two cents

Dell will fail miserably

I think everyone should read this excellent article on why Dell will fail.

Dude, you're getting a dud!

Originally posted by BaDBoY
Look guys... sure about the price and everything.. but when you think about it... Dell's DJ aint **** compared to Apple iPod.

Think about it, i dont think Dell will have some add on third party devices added. Adding to the iPods innovation, its VERY easy to create an add-on to apple's iPod, so developers can actaully create functions for the iPod thought to be impossible. Hell did you think someone would come out with something that can store Photos while on the go? geez i dont think any "music player" can do that right now except the iPod. Apple still has the advantage, shoot im willing to bust 50 extra dollars for something thats easier, alot nicer, and worth my money. That scroll wheel on the DJ look s like it can roll right off if used dilligently. The iPods new UI with the touch-sensitive buttons will eliminate this problem. Ever had one of those old TV's and you had to press a button on it to change the channel? I did. The button sank right in and wont work anymore. it got "sticky."

Putting the iPod side by side with Dell's DJ which one are you most likely to buy even if you didnt know the price? most people who only go for price not quality will ask which is cheaper. But people who want more bam for their buck will certainly choose the appl iPod, even if it is 50 bucks more.

My two cents

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I'm playing devil's advocate here, but a lot of what you said is true of a Mac or a Dell and look at our marketshare in that areana. Apple has to consider price as a factor along with everything else. And if they don't make considerations for what other companies are doing with the price of their hd based players, we'll see what happens with iPod's share of the market then.

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
People just don't get it. One last time. PRICE MATTERS!!!

Heck I like the new Prius hybrid electric with GPS but I’m not going to go out and buy one because they are too expensive right now.

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HEHE..I'm waiting for mine as we type....Expensive? maybe...But like Apple it delivers something very different from the rest and I'm willing to pay for that.

Apple needs to drop their prices not add features. [/B]

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Right now, I think they can hold off on that....

The Dell DJ is both bigger and heavier, and I'll assume that it's for the battery they love so much.

They realized that they couldn't compete in usability, form factor, or design, so they go out of their way to point out that it has a longer battery life. They just don't understand that most people would prefer a smaller, lighter player, and 8 hours is certainly plenty for me. Apple could make an iPod of the same dimensions as the DJ but with even more battery life, but that's not what the market really wants.

How many people need to go 16 hours without a charge, really? I need to charge my iPod once a week, I pretty much just use it in my car to replace radio and CDs and for some on-the-go listening. Dell is focusing on a problem that doesn't significantly bother too many people.