My real, first impression of Vista.

[deputy_doofy]

I finally got to work on cleaning up a spyware-infested Vista machine. I have to say that the Apple commercial with the security guy is 10000% accurate. From running things in the control panel to running some applications, the screen turns dark gray (reminds me of the OS X Kernel Panic) and asks me to ok the task at hand. It does this CONSTANTLY.

I tried to google UAC a bit to see if I could shut off UAC for certain apps if I ok'd them. Instead, I found numerous message boards and threads dedicated to the subject. I even read from "Unix gurus" who said the way UAC hounds the user to ok everything is "just like Unix." Now, I'm not a Unix guru, but I imagine that the way OS X handles things is the way Unix does, considering it's an official Unix now. Also, other people posted that OS X hounds the user the same way. Obviously, those people have 0 clue.

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here, but how can anyone find UAC useful? Not only is it not useful, it's overly annoying AND the machine I fixed still had 100+ files of spyware/adware anyway.

While I obviously prefer Mac to Windows any day, for Windows use, give me XP any day. XP is far better in every way and is my favorite version of Windows. Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled program. :)

[Neil321]

I work in a windows in a induced hell 5 days a week and spend most of it typing in passwords
,update this update that,so i know were your coming from vista in not to many words is a pile of poop.XP is not that much better but is the lesser evil of the two.God bless OS X

[WildPalms]

Right on dude. I gritted my teeth and tried Vista for around 11 days, before upgrading to Windows XP.

...never again, shall Vista grace my precious box.

[XianPalin]

Yeah, UAC is fairly lame. I understand popping it up sometimes, but for the most part it's popped up way too much and especially for things that don't matter near as much. OS X stays out of the way unless you're installing things that change system files, etc. If I change firewall settings in OS X I don't need to enter the password (unless these settings have been locked), stuff like that.

I installed Vista recently on my Mac Pro and was dreading it, but once I disabled UAC it wasn't near as bad. Well, once I disabled UAC and then disabled it from popping up messages in the taskbar saying "Warning: UAC is disabled" :p

[Eraserhead]

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned MS's new and improved control panel names.

Personally I think Vista is about as good as XP.

[NEiMac]

This is kinda sad that microsoft can't manage to do the UAC right. Ive used Mac os X, Linux and some BSD and the typing in the password never annoyed me, and it shouldnt. Only when your installing something or changing a system setting that will affect the entire system. Thankfully I havent been able to use Vista yet cept for a few minutes at a store. "Hint to microsoft, BSD does most of this stuff right, put your ugly gui on top of it and make a rosseta type program to run previous software." Hell they copy allot of apples Idea's they really should copy that one too. :rolleyes:

[cohibadad]

I'm sure some people must like Vista. Personally, I don't see the point. If you had an equivalent level of security as OS X then I'd be like Wow, gimme some of that. But you still need your AV crap installed so whatever. The UAC is the lamest thing I've seen in OS innovation. I turned that thing off after it popped up once too often. I don't really understand why M$ chose to move/rename things. All of my past experience with Windows 95-XP and I can't find/use/change settings, etc. I'm sure I could relearn for Vista but frankly, I just don't see that point. XP is compatible with everything. Vista is a bust IMO and the first major Windows OS I will not have anything else to do with, but probably not the last.

[cohibadad]

This is kinda sad that microsoft can't manage to do the UAC right. Ive used Mac os X, Linux and some BSD and the typing in the password never annoyed me, and it shouldnt. Only when your installing something or changing a system setting that will affect the entire system. Thankfully I havent been able to use Vista yet cept for a few minutes at a store. "Hint to microsoft, BSD does most of this stuff right, put your ugly gui on top of it and make a rosseta type program to run previous software." Hell they copy allot of apples Idea's they really should copy that one too. :rolleyes:

ah. if it was that easy. Microsoft is screwed. They're tied to a sad OS that maintains legacy but is dead end. If they give up the legacy for a more modern OS, they lose their customer base and open up pandora's box for OSX explosion. If they tried to use BSD, oops Apple is decades ahead so why not choose Apple over Microsoft BSD. If they maintain legacy, customers will continue to trickle away until the flood gates open. I think Microsoft has adopted the latter strategy.

[patseguin]

I am always flabergasted every time I read someone trashing on Vista. Mac is my main computer, but I have a home-built PC I made for SLI gaming. I run Vista x64 on it and I love it. UAC is very simple to deal with, turn it off. I never get any reminders that it's turned off or anything. All the games and other software I use on it work flawlessy. The OS itself is very slick and has never crashed on me once. OS X is light-years ahead but I still think Vista is pretty solid, granted I am running it on modern hardware and with SP1.

[Smoogz]

Vista is truly nothing but trash... other than Direct X 10 I dont see the point. Basically in my eyes its the Windows OS that came out 2 years late. Vista is the reason I bought a mac!

[mahashel]

UAC is indeed very annoying.
It can be completely disabled, but then it's akin to XP where you run as an admin at all times. No warnings/permission dialogs at all.

I've heard that Vista service pack 1 contains some modifications to make UAC suck less, but I've not seen an SP1 build yet, myself.

As for Vista vs. XP... I know it's popular to bash Vista, but frankly XP was the same way when it went RTM.
Everyone bashed XP when it came out. Major hardware compatibility and driver issues.. plus it required waaay more machine to run than Win 2K.
Fast-forward 7 years, and you have Vista, which everyone bashes because it has major hardware compatibility and driver issues, plus it requires waaaay more machine to run than XP. Rinse & repeat...
Me? I still use XP. I don't dislike Vista, I'm simply waiting until my next major system upgrade before switching over. It's not that I love Vista, but I do happen to have a good enough memory to recall that the pains of early-adopting a Microsoft OS (or even Apple for that matter) are not new. They are virtually identical with each iteration. (well.. ME to XP was indeed a fabulous leap. lol)

[ttriff]

As a 25yr PC user (1 month with a Mac Pro) my impression after using Vista for 6 months is that it's a dog.

I had Vista on a laptop and replaced it with XP Pro. The system runs much better now....

Thinking about a future where everything is dependent on Vista is the reason I bought my MP.....

[deputy_doofy]

Well, I had only seen Vista from afar and read the many crappy reviews, but I'm glad I actually had a chance to work with it. I'll give it another chance when SP1 comes out.

And yes, while I found Leopard a bit disappointing in its first iteration, it wasn't horrible to the point of me wanting to switch back to Tiger. 10.5.2 rules, though. :D

[louden]

... I like better about Vista is the ability to maximize a window to the whole screen. Just double click the title bar and BAM. So why can't this be copied on the mac?

Vista is heavy, and you can see it affect performance with features like aero and dreamscene, but yes, there are probably no fans of vista on this site.

[Sijmen]

... I like better about Vista is the ability to maximize a window to the whole screen. Just double click the title bar and BAM. So why can't this be copied on the mac?

Vista is heavy, and you can see it affect performance with features like aero and dreamscene, but yes, there are probably no fans of vista on this site.

What window could I possibly want to cover my entire 24" screen? I know that this size might not exactly be common, but above like 17" on the desktop I wouldn't want that.

[chrono1081]

I truly hate vista as well. For those out there who say "Vista is great I have no problems" just wait, they will come. Vista is a slow piece of ****. The transfer speeds for usb devices is horrendous, its nice how a 45k file takes 3 minuets to send to the recycle bin, UAC is useless a small script can bypass that, and nothing is compatible still after a year.

And if anyone wants to try and say its just my computer your wrong, Ive worked on hundreds of vista machines all with the same problems. Its just not good. Another rush by microsoft.

[Daveoc64]

I truly hate vista as well. For those out there who say "Vista is great I have no problems" just wait, they will come. Vista is a slow piece of ****. The transfer speeds for usb devices is horrendous, its nice how a 45k file takes 3 minuets to send to the recycle bin, UAC is useless a small script can bypass that, and nothing is compatible still after a year.

And if anyone wants to try and say its just my computer your wrong, Ive worked on hundreds of vista machines all with the same problems. Its just not good. Another rush by microsoft.

I've had Vista on three computers for over a year and there have been no problems.

This MacBook has had Vista on it from day one, again - no problems.

Yeah, UAC is annoying but people have a go at MS for not having a secure OS, then when they do something to fix it they get hounded.


Why should they even bother?

[contoursvt]

Photoshop? Illustrator? Excel? Any program you choose because you have the choice to do so?


What window could I possibly want to cover my entire 24" screen? I know that this size might not exactly be common, but above like 17" on the desktop I wouldn't want that.

[JNB]

I've had Vista on three computers for over a year and there have been no problems.

This MacBook has had Vista on it from day one, again - no problems.

Yeah, UAC is annoying but people have a go at MS for not having a secure OS, then when they do something to fix it they get hounded.


Why should they even bother?

So UAC is how to make an OS more secure? Placing the responsibility on the user for choosing between "Cancel" or Allow" to protect your system is not the definition of security. Granted, there's likely to be a bit of spirited MS-bashing (this is a Mac forum, after all), but if it was a matter of simply badmouthing another OS, where's all the Solaris disrespect, or the trashing of Linux? Nah, MS deserves it for the most part.

Years overdue, missing all the major components that were the keystone improvements to XP, requiring most average users to upgrade hardware or miss all the GUI-goodness, six freaking versions, and major corporate and edu IT staffs refusing to get anywhere near it forcing MS to "allow" OEM XP builds for an extended period. Whew. Not a successful release, in anybody's book.

[contoursvt]

Well in OSX, you have to type your password to allow for an install for example. Cancel or allow is easier for a user than typing a password. Its one mouse click.

So UAC is how to make an OS more secure? Placing the responsibility on the user for choosing between "Cancel" or Allow" to protect your system is not the definition of security. Granted, there's likely to be a bit of spirited MS-bashing (this is a Mac forum, after all), but if it was a matter of simply badmouthing another OS, where's all the Solaris disrespect, or the trashing of Linux? Nah, MS deserves it for the most part.

Years overdue, missing all the major components that were the keystone improvements to XP, requiring most average users to upgrade hardware or miss all the GUI-goodness, six freaking versions, and major corporate and edu IT staffs refusing to get anywhere near it forcing MS to "allow" OEM XP builds for an extended period. Whew. Not a successful release, in anybody's book.

[JNB]

Well in OSX, you have to type your password to allow for an install for example. Cancel or allow is easier for a user than typing a password. Its one mouse click.

I hardly think that you could even consider comparing OSX authentication with UAC. On average, with default settings, how many times do you have to click cancel or allow, and how many times do you have to authenticate on a Mac over the course of a day? Plus, how does requiring a mouse click ensure security? Literally anyone could be clicking "Allow" on that Vista box. I don't think one would have the same ease trying to install something on my Mac without having my password.

[dsnort]

Meh, my folks bought a Toshiba with Vista on it that I get to go troubleshoot periodically. So far, it hasn't been too bad. I'ts very... pretty, I'll give it that. After working on it for a few minutes, however, I remember why I'm a Mac Fan. It's just as cumbersome and annoying to work with as XP.

I know it's popular to bash Vista, but frankly XP was the same way when it went RTM.


Do you remember the joy that was "Windows Messenger" pre-SP1? That more than anything is what led me to look at other OS's, which brought me to Mac. I still feel like Bill Gates owes me money for that debacle.

[balamw]

Fast-forward 7 years, and you have Vista, which everyone bashes because it has major hardware compatibility and driver issues, plus it requires waaaay more machine to run than XP. Rinse & repeat...


Flash forward 7 years and Microsoft actually has to lower Vista retail prices to encourage upgrade adoption.

http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=Al7dqcKWTO.JOKdgJ8IJkYp82PAI;_ylu=X3oDMTFpNGltbmptBGlpZANELlVIRzl3cXFvN0ZpYkhPUUF6SjFBLS0Ebm9oA zMEcG9zAzEEcmlkA182NDU2/SIG=13f4479ii/**http%3A//us.rd.yahoo.com/mymod/hdln/rc/sty/*http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080229/tc_nm/microsoft_vista_dc_5

FWIW I don't find it so bad and run Vista Pro on my Dell.

B

[Hankster]

If Microsoft ever want to gets it right they need to get rid of the overbloated OS systems and go back to Windows 98 where things were simple and to the point. Vista was a strong reason why I made the full move to Mac.

[ayeying]

XP is sooo much easier then Vista. I personally think Vista was a disaster. None of my friends upgraded to Vista, some even downgraded. I'm sorry fanboys, Vista is just not ready for the real world yet.

When XP came out, i easily upgraded to XP without any of these problems.

[Sesshi]

So UAC is how to make an OS more secure? Placing the responsibility on the user for choosing between "Cancel" or Allow" to protect your system is not the definition of security. Granted, there's likely to be a bit of spirited MS-bashing (this is a Mac forum, after all), but if it was a matter of simply badmouthing another OS, where's all the Solaris disrespect, or the trashing of Linux? Nah, MS deserves it for the most part.

Years overdue, missing all the major components that were the keystone improvements to XP, requiring most average users to upgrade hardware or miss all the GUI-goodness, six freaking versions, and major corporate and edu IT staffs refusing to get anywhere near it forcing MS to "allow" OEM XP builds for an extended period. Whew. Not a successful release, in anybody's book.

UAC covers more than constant nag screens when you're running as Administrator like most people do.

It's because you're running as administrator you get more nag screens - because Microsoft, probably rightly given the reaction from the masses and certainly here, thinks that you're too dumb to consider the security implications of running as Administrator.

Set yourself up as a Standard User and you'll find the experience much more OS X like. If it needs permissions, it will ask you to present yourself as Administrator.

The reason that MS gets much bashing is that Windows is probably the only other OS apart from OS X where people who don't have any clue what they are doing can pick up and use on an everyday basis. And in many ways, it is certainly less forgiving of ignoramuses than OS X.

[McGiord]

Avoid Windows and you'll be always happy.

[Neil321]

Avoid Windows and you'll be always happy.

Id love too but have to use it at work

[JNB]

UAC covers more than constant nag screens when you're running as Administrator like most people do.

It's because you're running as administrator you get more nag screens - because Microsoft, probably rightly given the reaction from the masses and certainly here, thinks that you're too dumb to consider the security implications of running as Administrator.

Set yourself up as a Standard User and you'll find the experience much more OS X like. If it needs permissions, it will ask you to present yourself as Administrator..

Good point (and one I didn't mean to ignore for obfuscation), but as the sole user on all of my machines, I have always run as Admin; in fact, I don't even enable Guest accounts in either my Windows or Mac environments. Is a better answer than to create a local user that is allowed to administer, or one that has full access, but no Admin privileges? I'm just resistant to more layers than I need on a routine basis. And, having run that way for years, what's the impact of changing this late in the game?

[Sesshi]

For just general working I create a Standard User for myself, be it on OS X or Vista. I elevate privileges only when necessary in everyday situations. I am also the sole user of all my machines.

[contoursvt]

After the initial setup is done, I virtually never get bothered by UAC. New installations or changing system settings but outside of that, day to day usage it never really comes up. SO basically I can go days without seeing a UAC screen.

Also sure anyone can click "allow" but its your own computer so you're clicking "allow" or "deny". In a work environment, the user is locked down anyway so they cannot install anyway unless they have some kind of admin rights given to them. In a work enviornment you can lock the console when you walk away from your desk so nobody can get in anyway.


I hardly think that you could even consider comparing OSX authentication with UAC. On average, with default settings, how many times do you have to click cancel or allow, and how many times do you have to authenticate on a Mac over the course of a day? Plus, how does requiring a mouse click ensure security? Literally anyone could be clicking "Allow" on that Vista box. I don't think one would have the same ease trying to install something on my Mac without having my password.