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View Full Version : Penryn chip Macbook first thoughts?




Chris Blount
Feb 28, 2008, 08:37 AM
Just wondering what you guys think of the new Penryn chip Macbooks (those who have them). I will be getting my 2.4 GHz version today from Amazon. Will report back later with my thoughts.

I upgraded from the old 2.2 GHz version that I purchased 2 weeks ago. It's going to be interesting to see the differences first hand.



krye
Feb 28, 2008, 02:05 PM
First thoughts: what is up with the combo drive in the $1099 unit? I don't see the need to go to the $1299 version. But I need a SuperDrive! Lame. It's 2008 and a DVD burner still isn't standard? So you get iDVD for free and no DVD burner. Nice.

QCassidy352
Feb 28, 2008, 02:26 PM
I upgraded from the old 2.2 GHz version that I purchased 2 weeks ago. It's going to be interesting to see the differences first hand.

I would imagine those differences are going to be very, very minor. Probably nothing that you can measure without controlled tests. Aside from the fact that it's a Penryn and not a merom, you're gaining 200 mhz, losing 1 mb of L2 cache, and that's about it. The new ones come with more RAM and bigger HDs, and that's great, but the max capacity has not changed, only what comes standard.

These results (http://www.primatelabs.ca/blog/2008/02/macbook-pro-performance-february-2008/) are for the Penryn MBPs, not the MBs, but basically you're going to see similar differences (or lack thereof, as the tests show) in the MB line.

crazyskillz07
Feb 28, 2008, 02:39 PM
I just sent back my refurbished 2.2GHz white memron macbook before I even opened it because the new ones were releases before I recieved it. I need the computer for photoshop and aperture and I am begining to think I might just buy the same memron macbook I ordered refurbished again instead of the new 2.4GHz white macbook if I am not going to see a difference and save myself 200 dollars. I really do not get why they would go from 4mb cache to 3mb. I really think this was a poor upgrade on apple's part. Or intel... Either way...:( I have to make a decision soon and it seems like the newer one is not worth it.

QCassidy352
Feb 28, 2008, 02:58 PM
I really do not get why they would go from 4mb cache to 3mb. I really think this was a poor upgrade on apple's part. Or intel... Either way...:( I have to make a decision soon and it seems like the newer one is not worth it.

According to the front page news reports, intel is aggressively pushing apple (and others, presumably) to phase out merom chips and adopt penryn. So I would guess that the reason the macbooks saw this (very fast) update is because apple wanted to play nice with intel and use the new chips.

I have not seen any benchmarks on the SR vs. Penryn macbooks yet, but if the MBP benchmarks are any indication, there will be very little difference. The 200 mhz will matter, but the change from merom to penryn seems to have little if any effect on performance, if the chips are at the same clock. When you factor in the drop in L2 cache on the penryn machines, they will probably be only the slightest bit faster than the previous generation.

That said, I still think it's a good update because the penryn chips run cooler (longer battery life and less heat), and you now get more RAM and more HD space for the same price.

But having said *that,* I should mention, in the interest of full disclosure, that I just bought a refurb blackbook because I think they're a great deal at $1050. :D

phatcat
Feb 28, 2008, 03:15 PM
Do you guys seriously think you'd notice a difference?

cibby
Feb 28, 2008, 03:22 PM
Does anyone know if they've improved the overall construction of the case? I was sure I'd get a MBP but am now thinking about the MB. I was reading on the Apple support forums about MB cases cracking a bunch. I've had a 12" powerbook for 3 years now and it pretty much looks the same as the day I got it . A crack on a new MB would be a huge bummer. I read some posts that it might be the magnetic latch. Any chance they've fixed the issue?

Shackler
Feb 28, 2008, 03:24 PM
Does anyone know if they've improved the overall construction of the case? I was sure I'd get a MBP but am now thinking about the MB. I was reading on the Apple support forums about MB cases cracking a bunch. I've had a 12" powerbook for 3 years now and it pretty much looks the same as the day I got it . A crack on a new MB would be a huge bummer. I read some posts that it might be the magnetic latch. Any chance they've fixed the issue?

along with that could you see if it still scratches easy.

crazyskillz07
Feb 28, 2008, 03:25 PM
Wow. I am not going to complain ever again. I just ran geekbench on the PC I am on now and it ran a 1007.... HAHAHA.. And looking on the geekbench website it looks like the new macbooks score about 100-200 higher than the SR macbooks. However they are slower at "stream" Not that I know what steam is. But Im sure some one does.

Late 2007 2.2GHz....
http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/similar/41691/4

Early 2008 2.4GHz....
http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/similar/41782/4

jalpert
Feb 28, 2008, 03:29 PM
Benchmarks mean nothing to me, nor does the speed increase or decrease. What I care about is the heat. I hate laptops that get hot, this laptop should be cooler.... For me it's worth it just for that.

~~Hello~~
Feb 28, 2008, 03:32 PM
Macbooks crack, Macbook Pros dent.

crazyskillz07
Feb 28, 2008, 03:33 PM
Macbooks crack, Macbook Pros dent.

Was that supposed to be a joke?:D

cibby
Feb 28, 2008, 03:38 PM
Macbooks crack, Macbook Pros dent.

The posts I read were people who swear they treated their MB with the utmost care. Do the pros dent under those conditions? My powerbook never has. If you drop something, sure I'd expect it to be damaged. But if it cracks from the wrist rest not being supported properly or the magnetic latch being too strong, that's a design flaw I'd hope Apple would address.

Chris Blount
Feb 28, 2008, 03:39 PM
Well, it was just delivered. Be back later with a comparison.

crazyskillz07
Feb 28, 2008, 03:40 PM
Well, it was just delivered. Be back later with a comparison.

CONGRATS!:D:apple::D

kamm
Feb 28, 2008, 04:10 PM
Wow. I am not going to complain ever again. I just ran geekbench on the PC I am on now and it ran a 1007.... HAHAHA.. And looking on the geekbench website it looks like the new macbooks score about 100-200 higher than the SR macbooks. However they are slower at "stream" Not that I know what steam is. But Im sure some one does.

Late 2007 2.2GHz....
http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/similar/41691/4

Early 2008 2.4GHz....
http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/similar/41782/4

The latter three are all my results. First is default config but wasn't registered, second still default and registered, third is with 4GB memory. ;)
With my former 2007 Late BlackBook I got slightly above 3k, somewhere around ~3020...

Speed isn't really different but default 2GB was A LOT snappier than older 1GB base config.

crazyskillz07
Feb 28, 2008, 04:15 PM
The latter three are all my results. First is default config but wasn't registered, second still default and registered, third is with 4GB memory. ;)
With my former 2007 Late BlackBook I got slightly above 3k, somewhere around ~3020...

Speed isn't really different but default 2GB was A LOT snappier than older 1GB base config.

I ran a geekbench on the new blackbook in the apple store and got a score above 3100. It also only had 2GB's of ram. So I am convinced enought that it isnt slower then the previous macbooks(which was my concern as dumb as it sounds). I should have mine tomarrow night so ill run it before and after I put my 4GBs of RAM in.

krye
Feb 28, 2008, 05:39 PM
The posts I read were people who swear they treated their MB with the utmost care. Do the pros dent under those conditions? My powerbook never has. If you drop something, sure I'd expect it to be damaged. But if it cracks from the wrist rest not being supported properly or the magnetic latch being too strong, that's a design flaw I'd hope Apple would address.

I've had my MacBook for over a year and it looks as good as the day I bought it. And for $1400 I pamper it accordingly. People that complain about their laptops breaking and denting, etc need to take a little more care and pride in their stuff. So no, it's not a design flaw.

wgriffiths2000
Feb 28, 2008, 07:40 PM
Pros
-a few bumps to standard options

Cons
-no back lit key board
-no LED screen
-no BTO video card
-no BTO BluRay
-no multi touch (you got to be kidding me)
-over priced (unless it included above features)

I myself am going to wait hoping the June bump will be more significant. Also fingures crossed for a re design. With a smaller form factor 13 mb is almost same size as 15 mbp and mbp come with BTO video cards. I am realy hopping for a re deghin with a new material cause the acrylic plastic that they use brakes way to easy i have had my mb in for 2 case replacements and i baby the thing and its cracking again. Though i do use my laptop and i think apple did not make them to be used but to sit on a desk and look prity.

Non the less its a decent upgrade and if i did not already have one and was in the market for a laptop i would get one.

TSE
Feb 28, 2008, 08:38 PM
90% of people who are looking for a basic consumer-laptop don't need all those features, and no, the MacBooks are not overpriced.

honeycrisp
Feb 29, 2008, 01:14 AM
First thoughts: what is up with the combo drive in the $1099 unit? I don't see the need to go to the $1299 version. But I need a SuperDrive! Lame. It's 2008 and a DVD burner still isn't standard? So you get iDVD for free and no DVD burner. Nice.

I agree! Talk about lame...

Chris Blount
Feb 29, 2008, 06:26 AM
Last night I had a chance to sit down with my new Penryn Macbook.

First, no benchmark scores. These are simply my observations. I am comparing this against my previous Macbook which was the 2.2 GHz version with 2 GB of RAM installed.

First off, definitely more zippy. Not much more but I could tell the difference when loading web pages.

DVD Ripping and encoding, faster. The internal fan went on a few times but didn't stay on the entire time like in the old Macbook.

Programs also load slightly faster.

The bottom feels cooler but to tell you the truth, it isn't that much cooler. It's still gets pretty warm.

Battery life? Don't know yet. I haven't been able to run it down yet.

My recommendations:

1. For those who can return their old Macbooks and not pay the restocking fee, Do it! It's worth the upgrade!

2. For those who will have to pay a restocking fee, purely a judgement call. You will have to decide if the extra money is worth the slightly better performance. Personally, I feel comfortable knowing that I have the latest version. If you have the extra money and don't mind paying the restocking fee, I would say go for it. If you are dead set against paying, be happy with your current Macbook. It's not really such a bad device after all.

tremendous
Feb 29, 2008, 06:29 AM
Last night I had a chance to sit down with my new Penryn Macbook.


First off, definitely more zippy. Not much more but I could tell the difference when loading web pages.



Sorry, but I just can't believe you'd notice any difference whatsoever.

Chris Blount
Feb 29, 2008, 07:39 AM
Sorry, but I just can't believe you'd notice any difference whatsoever.I'm sorry you don't believe it but that's what I see. I did, howerver, say that the improvements were slight. Nothing drastic.

tremendous
Feb 29, 2008, 08:41 AM
I'm sorry you don't believe it but that's what I see. I did, howerver, say that the improvements were slight. Nothing drastic.

you're seriously telling me a .2 increase from an already way more than you need for surfing the web 2.2 makes a detectable difference?

Sorry mate, but in this case I really think you must be imagining it. pages load on my powerbook faster than I can blink - and that's some seriously actually old tech! perhaps the wifi reception is better on the new computer but i really doubt it's got anything to do with the processor.

Chris Blount
Feb 29, 2008, 08:55 AM
you're seriously telling me a .2 increase from an already way more than you need for surfing the web 2.2 makes a detectable difference?

Sorry mate, but in this case I really think you must be imagining it. pages load on my powerbook faster than I can blink - and that's some seriously actually old tech! perhaps the wifi reception is better on the new computer but i really doubt it's got anything to do with the processor.It's possible that wifi is better but loading web pages is not the only thing that appears faster. I was just using an example.

Roba
Feb 29, 2008, 09:14 AM
With Macs things generally do run faster on new computers anyway.

phatcat
Mar 1, 2008, 06:39 AM
I agree as well. New macs have more storage and probably less fragmentation on the drives. If your HD is nearly full, everything slows down. A better comparison would be to wipe both PC's clean and perform a system restore.

PowerFullMac
Mar 1, 2008, 01:02 PM
So your getting a new computer to replace one you got 2 weeks ago for a extra .2GHz! Mad!

SFStateStudent
Mar 1, 2008, 01:53 PM
It's possible that wifi is better but loading web pages is not the only thing that appears faster. I was just using an example.

about the speed being faster, and I've also noticed that copying/burning DVD's via HandBrake and converting to MP4 for my iPhone is "blazing" in comparison to my MB 2.16. I've also noticed that my BlackBook is noticeably "cooler" than the MB 2.16, since I'm always placing my MB and BlackBook on my lap. I'm hoping there will be some temp comparisons soon. Also, syncing my music and videos to my iPhone has been faster as well. Normally, when I sync a new movie to my iPhone, I go grab a drink or a snack, 'cause it's going to be a few minutes before I can disconnect from iTunes. As an example, I loaded Blackhawk Down (610MB file) to my iPhone and it took 2 minutes and 16 seconds to load on my new BlackBook, while with my MB 2.16 it took 5 minutes and 32 seconds to load. I know it's not scientific methodology, but the results are clear to me, that the BlackBook is definitely faster regarding my iPhone syncing my DVD's and videos. :cool:

Chris Blount
Mar 1, 2008, 05:23 PM
So your getting a new computer to replace one you got 2 weeks ago for a extra .2GHz! Mad!Actually it's a little more than that. A bigger hard drive and more memory.

The other thing is that I did not have to pay a re-stocking fee. It was really a no brainer. I had no reason not to do it since it didn't cost me anything extra.

QCassidy352
Mar 1, 2008, 11:09 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

so if we're to believe this thread, the .2 ghz make webpages load faster and improve USB transfer rates. I would *love* to see reputable benchmarks showing that.

phatcat
Mar 2, 2008, 06:42 AM
I'm hoping there will be some temp comparisons soon.

Did somebody mention temp comparisons?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/28/apple-macbook-pro-penryn-tests-a-little-more-speed-a-lot-less/

Chris Blount
Mar 2, 2008, 10:16 AM
Just did a Handbrake encode through the iMac 20" 2.0 GHz and the Penryn 2.4 GHz Macbook. Same movie, same settings.

As expected, the iMac took 1 hour 40 minutes to encode the movie.
The Macbook took 1 hour 20 minutes.

Looks like I might have to switch my movie encoding over to the Macbook. :)

Chris Blount
Mar 2, 2008, 11:03 AM
The original intent of this thread was to hear from those who purchased the Penryn Macbooks. I gave my opinion and specifically stated that I wasn't using any benchmark programs. My observations were strictly subjective. In my experience, benchmarks sometime don't tell the whole story which is why I wanted to avoid using them as a reference. Not that they aren't accurate in most cases, but there are so many variables involved that using benchmarks as a sole source of info is dangerous.

Instead many that have replied to this thread have not owned the old Macbook and the new so I'm having a hard time understanding why you guys can tell me that it's not faster.

In any case, I hope we hear more from other users like SFStateStudent who made the jump.

SFStateStudent
Mar 2, 2008, 11:34 AM
The original intent of this thread was to hear from those who purchased the Penryn Macbooks. I gave my opinion and specifically stated that I wasn't using any benchmark programs. My observations were strictly subjective. In my experience, benchmarks sometimes don't tell the whole story which is why I wanted to avoid using them as a reference. Not that they aren't accurate in most cases, but there are so many variable involved that using benchmarks as a sole source of info is dangerous.

Instead many that have replied to this thread have not owned the old Macbook and the new so I'm having a hard time understanding why you guys can tell me that it's not faster.

In any case, I hope we hear more from other users like SFStateStudent who made the jump.

Chris. This is an excellent thread for those you've described. I look forward to others experiences with the MacBook v. the BlackBook, and benchmarks tend to dilute that experience, for me at least. To me the benchmark is someone else's experience and not the actual user's experience, and though helpful in the end, there are certain things benchmarks can't tell us, such as the feel of the keyboard, how the screen looks to the eye, waking your computer from sleep mode, or the amount of time your computer takes to start-up and there's probably a ton of other features just waiting to be shared. So, keep 'em coming...:cool:

Chris Blount
Mar 2, 2008, 04:04 PM
Chris. This is an excellent thread for those you've described. I look forward to others experiences with the MacBook v. the BlackBook, and benchmarks tend to dilute that experience, for me at least. To me the benchmark is someone else's experience and not the actual user's experience, and though helpful in the end, there are certain things benchmarks can't tell us, such as the feel of the keyboard, how the screen looks to the eye, waking your computer from sleep mode, or the amount of time your computer takes to start-up and there's probably a ton of other features just waiting to be shared. So, keep 'em coming...:cool:

Agree and thanks. BTW, I meant to mention this earlier. Does the keyboard seem a little different to you? It feels like the keys are sitting a little higher. Could be just me though.

iViking
Mar 2, 2008, 04:44 PM
So that's a good thing. The only bad thing is that the keyboard seems like it's not working too well, especially the Y J and K keys...

SFStateStudent
Mar 2, 2008, 05:37 PM
Agree and thanks. BTW, I meant to mention this earlier. Does the keyboard seem a little different to you? It feels like the keys are sitting a little higher. Could be just me though.

and quite responsive to the touch. It takes very little effort to depress the keys and the reach seems a bit easier, instead of the "I can almost reach the "q" or "z" or "[" and the numbers, but I'm not sure if those are the right keys unless I look at them" thing. A definite improvement, for those of us that know the "home keys" and don't have to hunt & pick to type. :p

cherry su
Mar 2, 2008, 06:01 PM
To Penryn & SR MacBook owners: Do you miss the num pad?

jvette
Mar 2, 2008, 06:07 PM
Apple has you right where they want you. 95% of you will never need or notice the little difference in this upgrade. It sure makes the stock holders happy because it sells computers. Just like an update again in June will sell more computer. This is a good update for someone who needs a new computer but to just buy one because of the new specs is a waste of money.

iamnotmad
Mar 2, 2008, 08:33 PM
Hi can one of you guys with a new Penryn Macbook, do me a favor please? Do the following somewhere sorta quiet:

1) turn your volume up a bit
2) close lid to put to sleep or just put to sleep.
3) Wait at least 5 mins.
4) open/wake up.
5) Play any sound, listen very carefully when you first play this sound after waking the computer. Listen to the first couple seconds for some hissing/static to accompany the sound (the sound will still be there, just with the static/hiss)

This is happening on my otherwise great new Black MB. Could be a software, soundcard wake from sleep problem. Sorta hoping it is.

Thanks!

AlexanderTgreat
Mar 2, 2008, 08:43 PM
I've had my MacBook for over a year and it looks as good as the day I bought it. And for $1400 I pamper it accordingly. People that complain about their laptops breaking and denting, etc need to take a little more care and pride in their stuff. So no, it's not a design flaw.


Err no it is a design flaw, there are thousands of macbooks that have suffered the problem with no harsher treatment than just general use. I have had two now and both have suffered the problem. You just wait it will happen to you as well.

SFStateStudent
Mar 2, 2008, 09:10 PM
and my BlackBook 2.4 Penryn 250GB HDD passed with flying colors. Sorry! :cool:

pjashley1
Mar 2, 2008, 09:12 PM
5) Play any sound, listen very carefully when you first play this sound after waking the computer. Listen to the first couple seconds for some hissing/static to accompany the sound (the sound will still be there, just with the static/hiss)

I noticed this too ... but it also happened on my 2.2 SR that I bought a few days earlier.

iamnotmad
Mar 2, 2008, 09:47 PM
I noticed this too ... but it also happened on my 2.2 SR that I bought a few days earlier.

So you get a hiss along with the sound after waking from sleep?

ironMonkey
Mar 2, 2008, 10:09 PM
90% of people who are looking for a basic consumer-laptop don't need all those features, and no, the MacBooks are not overpriced.

MBP is very close to overpriced. It costs around a $1000 more than a similarly priced Thinkpad T61p. For $1000 you get 256 mb more video ram, an aluminum case, and OS X. It's up to you to see if that's worth $1000.

ps. Word has it MBP is very warm to the touch.

jegbook
Mar 2, 2008, 11:39 PM
So, for those of you with Penryn MacBooks that also have 4GB of RAM, would you see if you can get your MacBook to kernel panic when launching DVD Player? It should do it if you haven't rebooted in a while (at least a few days) or have somewhere near 1GB of RAM free. It can be tough to get that little RAM free. Easiest way is to run a virtual machine and set it to 2GB of memory.

There's a large contingent of Santa Rosa MacBook owners out there that have 4GB of RAM that kernel panic when launching DVD Player. Seems to be an x3100 graphics driver issue, but maybe the new processor will let it handle it Ok.

If it works with Penryn, then I'm gonna lobby Apple for a no-cost replacement (heck, I'd even pay a 10% restocking fee to be able to use DVD Player and Front Row...).

Thanks!!!

And I apologize up front for trying to hijack this thread. Kinda uncool. Sorry...

pjashley1
Mar 3, 2008, 08:35 AM
So you get a hiss along with the sound after waking from sleep?

Yes, both on Santa Rosa and Penryn.

iamnotmad
Mar 3, 2008, 09:03 AM
Yes, both on Santa Rosa and Penryn.

Thanks for the info, have you ever brought it in to the apple store? Do you plan to? It's not a huge deal, but it shouldn't be happening.

If you have brought it in what did they say?
Thanks!

pjashley1
Mar 3, 2008, 09:42 AM
No I haven't brought it in - they all do it (thought it has been more noticeable with the 2.2 SR and 2.4 Penryn)

iamnotmad
Mar 3, 2008, 12:37 PM
No I haven't brought it in - they all do it (thought it has been more noticeable with the 2.2 SR and 2.4 Penryn)

My Wifes white 2.2 SR does not do it, at least not that I can hear. That's why I am concerned about mine.