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View Full Version : Ah the glory of religious expression...




mactastic
Oct 28, 2003, 08:34 PM
Link (http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_2381382,00.html)

The Casper City Council has pledged to reject a 6-foot-tall granite monument that reads "God condemns gays to hell" in a meeting tonight.

The Rev. Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., wants to put the statue in a park in Matthew Shepard's hometown. For 12 years, Phelps has waged a cross-country campaign against homosexuals.

Shepard, who was gay, was viciously beaten near Laramie, tied to a fence overnight on the cold prairie and died in a Fort Collins hospital on Oct. 12, 1998.

According to Phelps' plan, which he has presented to the City Council, a brass plaque would show the young man burning in hell with the words: "Matthew Shepard entered hell Oct. 12, 1998, at age 21 in defiance of God's solemn warning."

City Manager Tom Forslund said the city is "repulsed" by the proposal. "There is no one that wants the Phelps' hate message placed here," he said.

Phelps has threatened to sue, arguing the city park already has a stone monument inscribed with the Ten Commandments, which has left the door open to other religious statements.

Casper may go to court or it could remove the Ten Commandments monument, perhaps to private land owned by the Fraternal Order Of Eagles, which donated it to the city in the 1960s.

"We don't want to move it, but we don't want Phelps' hate spread through the city," said Herschel Nickerson, secretary for the Eagles. "I don't think their monument would last very long. Fred Phelps cannot put himself above the Lord as judge."

Phelps, disbarred as an attorney in 1979 for ethical problems, and his congregation, which consists largely of his relatives, won't be in Casper on Tuesday.

"Casper is the epicenter and fountain of gay experiences," said Phelps from his Topeka home. "We know the way to the courthouse door, and we have not been accused ever of being broke."

Phelps said he will be in New York instead, seeking harsher punishment for Long Island high school football players who are accused of sexually assaulting younger team members.

"Casper has no business saying anything," Phelps said. "Casper bore Matthew Shepard and they raised him and they said it was OK to be gay."

Casper, located in Wyoming's energy-rich central plains, votes Republican and is home to 49,644 mostly conservative, mind-your-own-

business Westerners.

Phelps and his extended family of 13 children have lived in Topeka since the 1950s. He opposes school integration and civil rights. Four of his offspring have left and told tales of their father's physical abuse, tax fraud and racial hatred.

Initially tolerated and occasionally endorsed by Topeka's leaders, Phelps sent most of his children to law school. The family firm now fights for large-size picket signs and against limits on their weekly picketing in a Topeka city park.

"A 'fag' is anyone who disagrees with Fred Phelps," said Suzanne James, a former Topeka district attorney's investigator who has followed Phelps' career.

There are now anti-Phelps groups - Sunday in the Park without Fred and Not Today Fred - that back candidates for city offices who promise to curtail Phelps' demonstrations.

In recent years, Phelps also has preached that God hates America, including at a memorial service in Littleton for the Columbine victims.

Casper plans to snub the Phelps' anti-gay campaign.

"There is no way this kind of hate would be allowed," Forslund said. "There is no division here."

Things like this are the reason I didn't want Roy Moore to be able to put the 10 commandments up in his courtroom. If you allow something most people deem harmless (ie. "hanging 10") then you also are allowing this kind of religious speech as well. The constitution doesn't allow you to pick and choose your "allowed" speech. It only allows you to say whether religious statements are allowed or not. Giving preferential treatment to one POV is not acceptable. It's an all-or-nothing deal, and we can clearly see here that not everyone can handle that kind of responsibility.

FWIW, I think the Eagles, who donated the original 10 commandments monument in the park, are really trying to take the high road here, and I applaud them for their attempts to bridge this instead of turning it into a religion-vs-godlessness fight.

(edit: spelling)



bbarnhart
Oct 28, 2003, 09:31 PM
This is so stupid. I am an atheist and I don't see anything wrong with displaying the ten commandments anywhere. At least it's wholesome. I really could care less.

But this opposite sides issue where the minority is totally incorrect is just wrong.

Sayhey
Oct 28, 2003, 10:18 PM
It would be hard to imagine a more cruel and stupid action than what Phelps is trying to do to the community of Casper, not to mention Shepard's family.

zimv20
Oct 28, 2003, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Sayhey
It would be hard to imagine a more cruel and stupid action than what Phelps is trying to do to the community of Casper, not to mention Shepard's family.

agree 100%. how can phelps (who i learned of a while ago and think is a complete scumbag) be so confused as to think this kind of hate jives at all w/ the christian message of love and tolerance?

i must conclude phelps harbors homosexual feelings and hates himself for it. he doth protest too strongly.

mactastic
Oct 29, 2003, 09:27 AM
So no one who is pro-religious-displays-in-public-places wants to step up and tell us why they think allowing only some religions to express things and not others is ok? Or that Phelps should be allowed to express his religion in public spaces? What happened to Roy Moore's supporters?

Daveman Deluxe
Oct 29, 2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by zimv20
agree 100%. how can phelps (who i learned of a while ago and think is a complete scumbag) be so confused as to think this kind of hate jives at all w/ the christian message of love and tolerance?

Well, I don't think "tolerance" is the word to use, but "compassion" is. Christ never said everything is right, just to love those that are wrong (which includes every one of us on a regular basis). While I believe homosexuality is a sin, IMHO putting up a statue like Phelps proposes is an affront to everything I see in the Bible. Christ said that his disciples would be known by their love, not by telling everybody "on the outside" that God hates them.