Buying Dillema - PC vs. Mac - HUGE $$$ Difference

[~Shard~]

I am hoping to get some advice from the Mac community on why I should switch from my PC to a Mac. I have been following this site, as well as the Apple site for the past 6 months now, and have been getting more and more excited about buying a new Mac this winter. I have really fallen in love with Macs and really want to get one.

I want a high-end system, and was looking at a 1.8 GHz PowerMac, but recently ran into a dillema. My friend gets computers at cost, and drew up a quote for me - one for a PC, one for a 1.8 GHz PowerMac. I knew there would be a price difference, but I was willing to pay more for the Mac. OSX alone is worth it, plus being more fun to use, more stable, the longevity factor of the system, etc. - I had it all figured out and justified the extra cost. However, check out my friend's quote form his supplier. This is in Canadian $, so I'll inlucde the USD equivalent in brackets:

PC:

Pentium 4 2.8 GHz (800 MHz)
350W Power Supply
8 USB 2.0 ports (2 on front), 5 PCI slots, 800 MHz FSB, 6 DDR, 8x AGP, FireWire
16x DVD-ROM
DVD+/-RW
160 GB SATA HD
1 GB DDR400 PC3200 SDRAM
17" LCD w/ DVI
GeForce FX5600 256 MB DDR RAM, VIVO, TV-OUT, DVI
SB Audigy2 6.1 Surround
basic 3-piece speaker system
4-port cable/DSL router
V.92 56K modem
10/100/1000BASE-T Ethernet Card
wireless optical mouse, keyboard, floppy drive, yadda yadda...

Mac:

1.8GHz PowerPC G5
900 MHz FSB, 8 DDR, USB 2.0, USB 1.1, FireWire 400(x2), FireWire 800, Optical digital audio in/out
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
1.5 GB DDR400 SDRAM (2x256 stock, 2x512 added on)
160GB Serial ATA 7200 RPM
SuperDrive
10/100/1000BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Three PCI-X Slots
AGP 8x Pro
AirPort Extreme Ready
Bluetooth Ready
same 17" LCD as above
basic 3-piece speaker system
4-port cable/DSL router

Kay, here's the kicker - the price:

PC: $2879.07 taxes in ($2193.80 USD)
Mac: $ 4652.15 taxes in ($3545.33 USD)

As I said, I expected the Mac to be more, but not $2000 CAD more!!! I was willing to spend more for the Mac, but, well, now I am unsure what to do. I realize the Mac some some better features, and in this configuration, 512MB more RAM, but this is such a price difference - Macs really are more expensive it would seem!

I want to do "the right thing" and buy the Mac, however I don't know if I can simply justify $2000 more for it - that is an AWFUL lot of money for almost the equivalent system, as can be seen in the specs. I almost am willing to put up with WinXP for this much money.Plus, I use XP at work, and come on, admit it, it is a vast improvement and much mroe stable than the stereotypical Windows machine. I still don't think it holds a candle to OSX, and I think OSX is exponentially better, but, well, I'm rambling... ;)

I would really appreciate any comments or feedback. I am a PC user who has been living and breathing Mac the past 6 months, waiting to buy one, but now I have a dillema! I really want to switch...

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Scott

[yellow]

First off, RAM from Apple (especially for the G5s) is WAY overpriced. You can chop off $800 from the price by just buying the RAM from a 3rd party vendor (Like Crucial (http://www.crucial.com) ).

[yellow]

I just tried to build the same machine (without a display) (with only base RAM) (WITH AppleCare) for $2797 USD.

[grapes911]

If you want the mac buy it. You'll love it.

But here are some questions:

1) Do you really need it right now. Can you wait 6 months or a year? Save up some more.

2) Do you even need that high of a system? There are other mac configurations and systems that aren't as much money.

3) Do you play games? A pc is better for gaming. Or maybe two midgrade systems (one pc and on mac) would suit you better.

Hope some of this helps.

[Sun Baked]

Definitely...

Chop off the price of the RAM, and the cost of the LCD on the Mac -- for now, and upgrade later.

And definitely pay the extra $50USD for the ATI 9600 card.

[iJon]

well first thing is where the hell did you get that price for the mac. most of that stuff is stock but way over stock price. after you explain that how about you tell us what you plan to do with your computer and we will be able to tell you if the mac would benefit you at all.

iJon

[asphalt-proof]

I was in the same situation you are in just a couple of months ago. I researched for aabout 6 months and then decided that the mac best suit my needs. Why? I decided that I can play the games I like on it, I don't have to hassle with drivers (pricelss in my opinion), and the using an iPod on a Mac is as close to a religious exprience as I have ever had. Yes I am a recent switcher. I could have gone and spent abut a $1000 less on a comparable system but then I would e stuck with Windows. i use it (Windows) at work and hate every XP minute of it. Find out what you need your computer for. If its or Halo, get the PC. If its for school, home, casual use, you are going to have a hard time maxing out an iMac. To each his own. By the way, to lower your price of the machine, use the educators discount... even if you have to buy the thing for your "niece" in school. It will save you some money.

[Edot]

First off, those prices for the mac seem a little off. Second, isn't is kinda of expected that if someone can provide parts at cost for one computer, but not the other, that the other computer would be more expensive. If you want to compare shouldn't you seek out the price of the mac at cost? I guess in your situation it would be much cheaper to go with the PC. However, you cannot apply this in general because you are in a unique situation. Saying PC's are cheaper than Macs is not a justified statement just because of your ability to obtain a PC well below market price

[ddtlm]

If you choose the PC, at least get an A64 instead of a P4. :)

[rdhazrd]

Another thing to consider the fact that you are comparing a P4 to a G5, my 450MHZ iMac G3 is considerable faster than any P4 system at 2-2.25GHz I've used. Good points where stated like the RAM, go third party vendor or ebay, the educational discount is cheaper (but not so much with the hardware, only like $100-150 off where Panter is only $69 for students). I'll make you a deal, you send me the amount your friend says he can get you the Mac and I'll get you the same Mac and keep the extra for my time. :D At that price I could get you the same setup but could also bump it up to the dual 2Ghz model.

[MacAztec]

Odd, I just priced out a G5 (at the edu. store which everyone buys from). Here were the specs: (+ means upgrade)

G5 1.8GHz
Stock (512MB) RAM
+Airport Extreme Card
+Bluetooth Module
+Logitech Z-680 System

Came to a total of 2720. Now, add 1GB of RAM (180$) and a frickin 19" LCD (550$) and you still cant come out to the total you got.

[FightTheFuture]

Originally posted by ~Shard~
Kay, here's the kicker - the price:
PC: $2879.07 taxes in ($2193.80 USD)
Mac: $ 4652.15 taxes in ($3545.33 USD)


yikes dude! this guy is looking at a serious mark-up! but business is business. can you not find any life in your current pc's monitor, speakers? i wouldn't up the ram too quickly, and once you can afford it, you can take a look and poke around at the great layout inside the machine.

the G5 really cooks - and they still have yet to harness most of the power with more native 64bit apps! the feeling of switching is great! sooner or later, you'll forget about your old pc, collecting dust. mine's an expensive paperweight. you can get much more work done faster, quicker, and more satisfying, and if the feeling bodes you, you can get a cheap PS2 to quench that gamer satisfaction (http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=394941/ut=44f816e0198dbbb6)

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by rdhazrd
Another thing to consider the fact that you are comparing a P4 to a G5, my 450MHZ iMac G3 is considerable faster than any P4 system at 2-2.25GHz I've used.

uh... I am as fanatical a mac zealot as you will find, but that's patently ridiculous. The only way a 450mhz G3 could be faster than a 2 Ghz P4 is if the P4 were using 4 MB of RAM. :rolleyes:

I also do not understand the price the OP got for the G5... some explanation is in order here. (btw, if you get the mac, upgrade to the Radeon 9600. It's more than worth your $50.)

[iJon]

Originally posted by rdhazrd
Another thing to consider the fact that you are comparing a P4 to a G5, my 450MHZ iMac G3 is considerable faster than any P4 system at 2-2.25GHz I've used. Good points where stated like the RAM, go third party vendor or ebay, the educational discount is cheaper (but not so much with the hardware, only like $100-150 off where Panter is only $69 for students). I'll make you a deal, you send me the amount your friend says he can get you the Mac and I'll get you the same Mac and keep the extra for my time. :D At that price I could get you the same setup but could also bump it up to the dual 2Ghz model.
g3 450 faster than a 2ghz p4, hahahahahaha, what are you smokin. the g4 could barely keep up with the p4.

iJon

[Sun Baked]

If everybody bought based on price alone, we'd all be driving Yugos -- and loving it.

But some people like driving in style.

[hulugu]

Shard,
I can see why you have questions: the 1.8 w/ all the trimmings is more than the price you've quoted for the PC, which I can only assume is right, but as you noted at cost. One of the things I would assume, is you buy anything you can for your Mac (memory, monitor, those great speakers, etc) from him. Secondly, the 1.8 is a Pro machine and as such it contains a few things that you may not need, but which up the price, these include Firewire 800, Fibre Card support, etc.
Thirdly, the Mac and OSX.3 is a better experience, think Porsche vs. Volkswagen. They share many parts, they are made on similar factory floors and yet you would never compare a Jetta to a Boxter. That's the Wintel PC versus the Apple.
In my experience the G5 will save you oodles of time:
XP crashes less than its predecessors, but nonetheless it can be a flaky beast.
No virii, yup not a one go check it out.
Fewer hacks and even fewer malware. Argue that it's either security through obscurity or *BSD is just that great, either way you get the same affect.
Few drivers, and great open-source support. Go to versiontracker.com and you can find really interesting software for OSX.
Ergonomic, nice machines, nice keyboards across the board (I'm a writer and few keyboards match the quality of the ones coming out of Cupertino)
Great support, online is a great source from Apple itself, no more googling for solutions to your latest Windows flub.
The iPod and iTunes, iPhoto, Safari and other great pieces of software.
OSX which is a server-strength operating system that anyone can set up thanks to zero-configuration (Rendevouz), try it sometime, it's rediculously easy.
So, I know the amount is a lot, but remember a few things: you must compare retail prices to retail prices, I know your friend can hook you up, but that doesn't mean your computer will work any better in a year; the resale value for Macs is great while a PC is like a Lexus, you loose money as soon as you set the radio dial; security and the outstanding software update (yes, Apple updates their software, but it also rediculously easy to use) saves time; and you will simply love working on your computer.
It depends on what you do of course, if you're a gamer I think you'd be better off getting an Xbox/PS2/Gamecube, if you're an architect then CAD keeps you with Windows, but if you make movies, music, or shoot photos, write email, surf the web, write, etc. you need a Mac.
'Nuff said.

[pinto32]

From Apple Store: (no discounts: regular price)

1.8 Ghz G5
1.5 Gig Ram (512 stock + 1GB from Crucial.com ($ 88 per 512MB stick)
160 GB SATA HDD
ATi Radeon 9600 Pro (or subtract $50 for a FX 5200)
Superdrive

$2624(US) plus cost of monitor

OR.....

From Macmall.com:
1.8Ghz G5
1.5 Gig RAM (512MB stock + 512MB free ($40 install fee) +512MB Crucial RAM ($88))
160GB SATA HDD
NVIDIA FX 5200
Superdrive
FREE Epson C84 inkjet printer

$2522 (US) plus cost of monitor

[dieselg4]

I'm not sure which one really works better for yu, but in order to try an compare apples to apples (no pun intended) i configured this ssytem on Dell's website:
Dell Dimension 8300
P4 2.8 800mhz bus
XP Pro
1gb DDR 400mhz Ram
120 GB SATA (Dell doesn't offer a 160)
no floppy
8x DVD RW CD RW
Dell wireless keyboard & mouse
no monitor
Harmon Kardon Speakers & SUbwoofer
56 k modem
gigabit ethernet
Truemobile 2300 wireless b/g router
1 yr. warranty
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
$2353.00 (US dollars)

This doesn't include Dell's version of iLife applications, which they charge extra for.

I consider Dell a good barometer for system pricing. Its a reputable company but it might jsut as well be moot since you can get a pc cheaper from your friend.

Just my $.02

[suneun]

You could consider dropping the Superdrive to a Combodrive. It saves $300 Canadian. Depends if you really think you'll use your Superdrive. In the last year and a half, I've made one movie DVD and one data DVD. I plan on making more data DVD's, but that's just because I'm running out of HD space (140 gigs).

Definitely get the ram elsewhere. Each 512 mb of ram should cost about $90 US dollars.

What kind of 17" LCD are you planning on? I hope you're not factoring in an Apple LCD. You could get a different LCD at a much lower price (no problem with the connection, right?). Don't forget to drop the modem, too for $44 Canadian off, unless you'll need it.

If you live near the US, there are always options like Education store pricing (you or through a student-friend) or getting someone to do the lifetime single discount for you (as an Apple Developer).

[Java]

Originally posted by ~Shard~
PC:

350W Power Supply
Do PC makers really put the power supply a componet to their system?

[mattroberts]

the prices here are way off in my opinion. even the comparison is unreasonable.

Let look taxes out as i don't know where you live shard. but the general sales tax is 15% in Canada (PST&GST) or(HST) unless your an albertan (Lucky devil)

the cost for this system
1.8GHz PowerPC G5
• 512MB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x256
• 160GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
• NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
• 56k V.92 internal modem
• SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
• Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
• Mac OS X - U.S. English

is 3399 CDN

If your getting a deal on the PC try and get a deal on the MAC, ask a friend in School to hook you up and buy a mac

the price for the above system is then (edu dis)
3099 CDN

thr truth is a routrers cost 69.99 at staples. Ram is $400 Cdn at Canada Ram. it would be easier if you priced out the monitor.

but the cost is above that of the PC *BUT* your MAC is the top of the line system the PC you have quoted is top of the line LAST YEAR


it also
- has less ram
-less included OSX program IDVD IMOVIES ICHAT AV etc.

go buy the latest AMD System (athalon FX 64) that came out in Spetember (equivalent to G5) your easily looking at 3700 CDN with discount for a similarly equipped machine. Looking at clock speed makes no sense in comparing the two systems,

This isn't a fair or reasonable comparison, so buy the mac :P
cheers
m

[yellow]

Let's beat this dead horse!! :cool: <whap! whap!>

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by yellow
Let's beat this dead horse!! :cool: <whap! whap!>


Sometimes I feel like beatin' a dead horse... /singing


something else to consider is software. How much more software will you have to buy to get the same software that comes bundled w/OS X? Pricing hardware only seems to be a very common thing for PC-only users to do. But maybe that's because no off-the-shelf PCs come w/any worth while software? ;)


Lethal

[kuyu]

To me, it seems silly to spend $2000 - $3000 on a big giant Playstation 2. Just buy enough computer for your productivity needs and buy a $200 game system from your local walmart.

I know, I know, people are ranting "but you can't get some of the computer games on the consoles!" Big deal. This principle works in reverse too. Next year the next-gen systems debut, and they will blow peoples' minds. Hardcore peecee gamers will be pissed that they spent $3,000 to play Doom III and Half-Life II. That's $1,500 a piece!!!

FYI: All of the games of 2-3 years from now on consoles will be MORE impressive than either of these titles. Just save your money and wait for the market to come down in price.

[Gelfin]

I think there are some other things to consider here.

First, does your friend have any opinion about what sort of computer you should be using? It's easy to stack such comparisons to make one option look much worse than another.

Second, I don't even know what "at cost" means in terms of Macs. Apple makes all their own products and sells you a whole computer. They set retail prices for their resellers. That's why you see resellers like MacWarehouse always throw in a free printer or something. Apple doesn't permit them to cut the price significantly, so that's MWH's way of competing. If your friend's supplier is honestly providing wholesale prices, you're getting a very skewed picture.

Third, I don't think your friend's supplier is giving you the whole picture. I could buy parts retail, off the shelf, and build a system with those specs for much less than US$2200. In fact, early this year I built a much better system than that for less than US$2200 (to support my gaming habit). I worry that your friend's supplier is trying to take you for a ride. You're not getting a special price. You're getting a story that will maximize the supplier's profit on the deal.

See, the supplier doesn't have a lot of control over the margin he gets on an Apple system, but he has much greater control over pricing for the PC parts. Since you turned the discussion into a PC-vs-Mac comparison, it's easy to inflate the Mac price enough to make a not-so-great PC price look like a great deal.

The way I see it you have two options (besides "PC or Mac"). Either you can get what's going to make you happy and forget the nickel-and-dime comparisons, or you can educate yourself enough to make the comparisons yourself, since just about everyone else is going to be trying to influence you one way or the other.

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Something else to consider is software. How much more software will you have to buy to get the same software that comes bundled w/OS X?

Of course, the flip-side of that is: How much Windows software do you currently use that you'd have to purchase Mac versions of? Office? Photoshop?

For me, that was the most expensive part of my switch.

PS- Has anyone mentioned that the price quoted on that G5 seems way off? :p

[cubist]

The closest Microsoft equivalent to Mac OS X is either Windows 2000 Professional or Windows XP Professional. Don't even consider XP Home. You didn't include any pricing for that in your PC estimate.

Also, you are getting a 32-bit PC, so you should be comparing with a single-processor G4 tower, not a G5. As another poster stated, to get a 64-bit PC you have to find an Athlon 64. The Athlon 64 is a fine processor, but you will be stuck with 32-bit code for some time -- unless you use Linux.

As it is, you are comparing the last of the 32-bit PC generation with the first of the 64-bit Mac generation. If we all compared that way, we'd all still be running Z80s and Apple IIs.

[tristan]

Apple computers are surprisingly friendly when it comes to 3rd party peripherals and upgrades. Since not all of us were on HBO's "Born Rich" special, you can save a lot of cash by looking elsewhere.

Must buy 3rd party items:
RAM, Printers, Scanners, Cameras

Worth considering: (Apple has great products but 3rd party are sometimes cheaper or provide more choices)
Monitors, 2nd or upgrade hard drives/optical drives, wireless routers, keyboards, mice, mp3 players, other USB

[monkeydo_jb]

Originally posted by ~Shard~


Kay, here's the kicker - the price:

PC: $2879.07 taxes in ($2193.80 USD)
Mac: $ 4652.15 taxes in ($3545.33 USD)



His numbers are right on if you look at the USD price.


Note- He is in Canada.



-jeff

[Foxer]

What happened to Shard? (The thread starter?)

Meanwhile, I agree with everyone. The Mac price quoted is way off, and you can the whole thing much cheaper if you follow everyone's suggestions.

[mattroberts]

don't forget I think he's INCLUDING Canadian Sales Taxes Provincial and Goods&services- this roughly (depending on where in Canada you are) spikes the cost 15%.

cheers matt

[panphage]

Yeah, and his "friend" is apparently gouging him on the LCD, speakers, and router. These items are the exact same from system to system. And since apple doesn't offer 2x256 + 2x512 I can only assume his "buddy" is adding the ram himself and paying himself handsomely for it.

Why do I think this? Stock 1.8Ghz G5 w/Superdrive, 2x256 Ram, etc, as described by the original post, taxes out: $2399US.
Granted the taxes might be high, but again, tax isn't avoidable. He's paying the same high tax on the PC system, so tax should be removed from any comparison.

If you are paying $1200US for 1Gb ram (in 512MB sticks no less), a 17"lcd, "basic" speakers, and a four-port router (not even wireless???), I'd like to be your personal shopper.

[~Shard~]

Originally posted by iJon
well first thing is where the hell did you get that price for the mac. most of that stuff is stock but way over stock price. after you explain that how about you tell us what you plan to do with your computer and we will be able to tell you if the mac would benefit you at all.

iJon

First of all, thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate them. As for the Mac quote, the base 1.8 GHz system listed on the Apple Store is $3300 CAD. My buddy gets it for $3100. Throw on the other components (1 GB more of RAM = $236, LCD = $646, speakers = $32, router = $66) then 13% tax and bam, you're at the total! This is buying the RAM separately as well....

As for what I want to do, I do a fair bit of audio editing, some video editing, no gaming, a lot of burning... nothing major. I guess this might mean I don't need the G5, and would be fine with an iMac, but it kinda sucks when I could get a top-of-the-line PC for as much as a non-top-of-the-line Mac, in some respects.

I have given it some more thought and am still wanting a Mac, so maybe I have to figure out if I should go for the PowerMac G5 now, save up and get the Rev Bs in a few months, or get an iMac.

Any more houghts would be appreciated... I'll add some more comments too once I finish reading all the posts.

Thanks again!
Scott

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by ~Shard~
As for what I want to do, I do a fair bit of audio editing, some video editing, no gaming, a lot of burning... nothing major. I guess this might mean I don't need the G5, and would be fine with an iMac, but it kinda sucks when I could get a top-of-the-line PC for as much as a non-top-of-the-line Mac, in some respects.


Don't forget that Apple still sells the Dual 1.25 G4 Power Macs. More power and expandability than the iMac, and significantly cheaper than the G5 1.8.

[mattroberts]

thats not a Top of the line PC by any stretch of the imagination.

it is a top of the line Mac

[~Shard~]

Hi all,

I finished reading all these posts and wanted to thank everyone again. (And sorry for not replying to some of your comments sooner!) You have all made great points and that's exactly what I wanted. I feel more comfortable about buying a Mac now, and all that remains is to decide if I want to get an iMac instead, or just go with the 1.8 G5, or save up a bit more and get a Rev B - even if it's the same price, I would at least get a little more bang for the buck ;)

Any idea when the Rev B's might come out? Or a G5 iMac? Anything at MWSF in January?

Thanks again everyone - I really appreciate this forum and its knowledgable members. Hopefully I'll be a member one of these days myself!

Cheers,
Scott

P.S. If anyone had any outstanding questions that they wanted clarification on from my previous post, let me know and I'd be happy to explain. :)

edit: added P.S.

[panphage]

Originally posted by Flowbee
Don't forget that Apple still sells the Dual 1.25 G4 Power Macs. More power and expandability than the iMac, and significantly cheaper than the G5 1.8.

Agreed, this would be your best performance for dollar value for editing work. I personally thing the dual G5 is so much better for a bargain price than the single G5s. Remember that the G5s gain WAY more performance by adding another proc than the G4s do.

And I have to add, if you're getting the G5, try to at least get the Radeon 9600, it's a significantly better card for $50US.

[KWSN-SirShades]

If you are going for over a GB ram then you will NOT want the P4. OSx has a high over head and a p4 may out preform a memory starved Mac but Windoze will not utilize the ram you are getting as well as a Mac. I prefer PCs for compatibility, hence they are always my desktop. But I would never give up my power book for a PC.

A Xeon 3.02 with 1mb cache will be close to the G4 1.8 $2600 via dell. Buy the second proc later from a vender=save a butload. $400 or less for another 3.02
Look on dell's website under small business and build one you like.

The only way you will get more power than a dual G5 will be the dual AMD 64 Opteron. 16xx FSB 8gb ram 128 bit rambus 400mhz true parallel processing and a few otherthings put it just over the top of the G5s. Good luck tring to get one in the next 3 months though, I haven't even seen one yet. The 64 Xp is not bad at all and can be found, But will not dual (as far as I know)

For now Mac reigns king. But the 3rd gen PCs will bring Mac a new challenge.

Unless you have legacy PC hardware you need to use. Buy Pc for Mac (formerly connectex) software for compatibility and get a wonderfull new Mac. Or have a crazy "prototype" PC built for the same price.

P.S. I am actually a little bias toward PC, but I fell that a mac will work best in your case. Find an internet cafe/ lan parlor if you must game. $4/$2 an hr here.
I seriously doubt you will regret buying a Mac.

[manitoubalck]

My dear friend, If you are wiliing to spend the extra money on a mac don't bother. The Athlon 64/FX/Opteron/clawhammer/sledge hammer or what ever you want to call it is ahead of both the current intel and IBM chipsets.

You cannot upgrade a mac (almost at all) except for RAM, very few consumer based PCI cards will fit in the 3.3v extended slots (32-bit PCI ie 5v.) You cant even add a second internal optical drive.

Intel's Prescott core should be release by christmas, and that is something to look out for. My next computer is going to be Dual Opterons with a Tyan MB, beats the G5 Hands down in my opinion. Good Luck

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by KWSN-SirShades
The only way you will get more power than a dual G5 will be the dual AMD 64 Opteron. 16xx FSB 8gb ram 128 bit rambus 400mhz true parallel processing and a few other things put it just over the top of the G5s. Good luck tring to get one in the next 3 months though, I haven't even seen one yet.

This is the board, one of only 4 or 5 avalible with AGP for the ATX form factor. The Tyan The Thunder K8W (S2885) supports 32GB:eek: of RAM. Another thing you wont; repeat will not find one of these built up yet, you have to build htem yourself, or order the parts in and pay someone to build it for you. For a Truly BTO machine, not 3 or 4 variables which mac define as BTO.

[dieselg4]

I seem to rememeber you trying to qualify the difference in the prices between the two systems you looked at. As someone else posted earlier, its true you wouldn't be getting a top of the line PC system, since Xeons, Opterons, etc. are more comparable.

Now that those kind of systems are being thrown around, i don't understand where all your hard earned Canadian Cash will be coming from, unless you're waiting to save up more.

In which case, and this is onyl according to a page 2 rumor, Apple should eb realsing rev. 2 g5's aorund late Jan - Mid February, with 90mm process and speed thought to be between 2.2 & 2.8. Assuming apple keep shte same kinda pricing model (best pro desktop 3k, mid range 2.5k, and entry 2k. sorry about the US dollars!) the prices on 1.6 & 1.8 should fall like stones.

Then you could compare xeons & 1.8 or maybe whatver the new entry level is, and also compare Presccotts and rev 2 g5's when u have more money saved up.

[Squire]

I'm all for wanting top-of-the-line stuff but sometimes even I can't justify the expense. How's this scenario:

Buy a P 2.4 GHz PC with, I don't know, an 80 GB HD, a 128 MB graphics card, a 5.1 Audigy, and 1 GB of RAM. Then, grab a 17" iMac, extra RAM, and a box of Panther.


Best of both worlds. (Well, you know what I mean.)
Squire

<Edit: Oh, and about that "G3 being faster than a P4" comment... Well, all I can say is that my 1 GHz iMac is just a tad slower on everyday tasks than my P4 1.6 GHz. I don't, however, have more than the original 256 MB of RAM in it. I'll get that later.>

[Gelfin]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
My dear friend, If you are wiliing to spend the extra money on a mac don't bother. The Athlon 64/FX/Opteron/clawhammer/sledge hammer or what ever you want to call it is ahead of both the current intel and IBM chipsets.

You cannot upgrade a mac (almost at all) except for RAM, very few consumer based PCI cards will fit in the 3.3v extended slots (32-bit PCI ie 5v.) You cant even add a second internal optical drive.

Intel's Prescott core should be release by christmas, and that is something to look out for. My next computer is going to be Dual Opterons with a Tyan MB, beats the G5 Hands down in my opinion. Good Luck

*holds nose* Whew, man, what smells like troll in here?

Yeah, and for the price of a BMW I could buy an old Civic chassis and a lot of high-performance parts to make a much faster car. But I still wouldn't have a BMW.

Look, I build my own Windows systems too, but not everyone is that kind of hobbyist. And not everyone views the pinnacle of high-performance techno-geekery to be the only yardstick in making their decisions.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by Gelfin
*holds nose* Whew, man, what smells like troll in here?



Hey, hey lets not jump the gun here and call the guy a troll. He could just be ignorant (I believe in giving people the bennifit of the doubt). ;)

The only thing on any tower Mac that is not upgradable is the mobo.

If you need a 2nd optical drive there are many FW and USB 2.0 solutions. A nice thing about an external optical is it means you don't have to have the tower w/arms reach in order to insert/remove your disks.

I'm sure people complained too when PCI replaced ISA, but I guess everyone got over it 'cause I don't here anyone screaming to bring back ISA.

Speed is nice but IMO it's the most important thing. I'd rather have a slower, more dependable machine than a faster, less dependable machine. Clients don't get uneasy when they have to wait for a render, but they do get uneasy when the computer keeps malfunctioning.


Lethal

[lynnpye]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
(...snippage...)

Speed is nice but IMO it's the most important thing. I'd rather have a slower, more dependable machine than a faster, less dependable machine. Clients don't get uneasy when they have to wait for a render, but they do get uneasy when the computer keeps malfunctioning.


Lethal

And realize that in this case, the "slower" machine (i.e. presumably the G5) isn't exactly poking far behind the faster one. If I have to choose fast and reliable vs. a tidge faster and possibly less reliable, I'll pick option one and head home thanksverymuch.

[voicegy]

Originally posted by ~Shard~
Anything at MWSF in January?

Oh, most certainly...;)