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Cromulent
Mar 8, 2008, 05:45 AM
Just noticed this myself, but Xcode 3.1 and the iPhone SDK are under NDA. People on this forum may want to bear that in mind. Read the license agreement.



sammich
Mar 8, 2008, 05:52 AM
It's a good point. Although you need a Apple Developer Connection Account to download the SDK, you don't go through the normal ADC download page (which tells you that the software is under NDA at the top) to get the iPhone SDK.

Although, how do you accuse someone of spreading information when it's basically accessible to everyone?

Cromulent
Mar 8, 2008, 06:31 AM
Although, how do you accuse someone of spreading information when it's basically accessible to everyone?

It is not available to everyone. It is only available to those who have agreed to abide by the terms of the NDA. Subtle difference but it is important.

gnasher729
Mar 8, 2008, 06:41 AM
It's a good point. Although you need a Apple Developer Connection Account to download the SDK, you don't go through the normal ADC download page (which tells you that the software is under NDA at the top) to get the iPhone SDK.

Although, how do you accuse someone of spreading information when it's basically accessible to everyone?

You and I cannot decide how the iPhone SDK can be distributed, only Apple can. When you download the SDK, you have to scroll through the license agreement, and two of the things in there are: Confidental information. You may be receiving information that is confidential, and you are not allowed to pass on such information. Redistribution: The right to download is only given to you and nobody else. You can't allow anyone else to download, you must guard your Apple ID, and you must not give copies to anyone else.

It's a private club. Even though membership is free, and Apple isn't very pick who they let in, it's still a private club.

gnasher729
Mar 8, 2008, 06:45 AM
It is not available to everyone. It is only available to those who have agreed to abide by the terms of the NDA. Subtle difference but it is important.

As an example, if a competitor downloads the SDK, they cannot steal any ideas in it for their own phones, because they are bound by the NDA and the license terms of the SDK. For example, Nokia could download the SDK, write some really cool iPhone apps and sell them and make lots of money, but the NDA and license terms would prevent them from copying things they learnt through the SDK to their own phones.

admanimal
Mar 8, 2008, 10:09 AM
Where precisely does it say that the SDK is under an NDA? Just saying you "may be" receiving confidential information and actually being under an NDA are two very different things. Not to mention it would be a pointless thing for them to do since anyone can download it for free by taking 30 seconds to fill out a form.

Cromulent
Mar 8, 2008, 10:36 AM
Where precisely does it say that the SDK is under an NDA? Just saying you "may be" receiving confidential information and actually being under an NDA are two very different things. Not to mention it would be a pointless thing for them to do since anyone can download it for free by taking 30 seconds to fill out a form.

From the SDK license.

5. Confidentiality
5.1 Information Deemed Confidential
You agree that the SDK licensed hereunder, the terms and conditions of this Agreement, and any
other non-public information that You learn about Apple’s products, designs, research,
development, know-how, or Apple’s business, finances or personnel, or non-public third party
information, in connection with this Agreement or in connection with Your use of any part of the
SDK will be deemed “Apple Confidential Information” under this Agreement.

gnasher729
Mar 8, 2008, 10:48 AM
Where precisely does it say that the SDK is under an NDA? Just saying you "may be" receiving confidential information and actually being under an NDA are two very different things. Not to mention it would be a pointless thing for them to do since anyone can download it for free by taking 30 seconds to fill out a form.

The point is: To get the information, you need to take the 30 seconds to fill out the form _and_ agree to the NDA. So Nokia or Microsoft can easily get all the information they want, but their knowledge would be covered by this NDA. And if they get the information from you (in breach of _your_ NDA), that doesn't help them, because they are Big Boys and Big Boys are not allowed to use information that they received because someone breached their NDA.

(Actually, these companies might tell their employees not to download the SDK, if they are working somewhere where information could easily move into their own products. So if the janitor at Nokia downloads the iPhone SDK, that is fine, but if a top phone-user-interface designer takes too close a look at the iPhone SDK, he could be in danger of copying things unconsciously and that would be a legal problem).

admanimal
Mar 8, 2008, 10:51 AM
Interesting, thanks for the info.

kainjow
Mar 8, 2008, 12:03 PM
It's still unclear on what you can talk about and what you can't.

For example, When Gus Mueller (VoodooPad developer) posted (http://www.gusmueller.com/blog/archives/2008/03/fmdb_for_iphone.html) on his blog about it with some specific details, is he breaking his NDA?

I find it hard that Apple would go after people, since it's not like the Leopard prerelease builds where you had to be at WWDC to access it, or be a select/premier member.

Peace
Mar 8, 2008, 12:18 PM
The NDA that Apple is talking about is mainly for those ADC members who file real bug reports and/or communicate information concerning things Apple may want to discuss with you . Say for example an update that only certain Devs may get.

Make any sense ?

no..hehe

kainjow
Mar 8, 2008, 12:47 PM
Even Cnet posts a few quotes from the documentation: http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9888722-37.html

Cromulent
Mar 8, 2008, 01:03 PM
I'm not saying you'll get into trouble, I'm just saying if you are using the SDK to get a head start on a commercial application you may want to be a little careful.

PixelSmack
Mar 8, 2008, 06:40 PM
The SDK is without a doubt under an NDA as a couple of questions on the mail list about it have been nullified by mods citing NDA's in order to prevent discussion... this will be interesting when they set-up an Core Touch mail list.

But more to the point podcasters, bloggers and people on forums must be careful what is described. This fits with the policy apple has for delegates at WWDC and for beta testers of other products like leopard etc.

megfilmworks
Mar 8, 2008, 07:16 PM
So let's say I had a problem with x-code. Do you think the NDA would limit me from asking for feedback on this forum?

hhas
Mar 8, 2008, 07:39 PM
#1 - The first rule of iPhone SDK is, you do not talk about iPhone SDK.

#2 - The second rule of iPhone SDK is, you DO NOT talk about iPhone SDK.

(Sorry, it had to be said...)

powderblue17
Mar 8, 2008, 10:09 PM
This is pretty stupid seeing as how it's available for download by anybody. I've never heard of an NDA for openly available software that wasn't in some kind of closed beta. I mean there are already posts on the front page that would go against an NDA.

alaceo
Mar 10, 2008, 12:21 AM
Is Xcode 3.1 under NDA as well? Does this affect Mac applications programmed under Xcode not related to the iPhone SDK? I just don't want my regular applications and questions about them restricted by a NDA.

SimonTheSoundMa
Mar 10, 2008, 08:53 AM
NDA in the UK is not legal unless it is signed and witnessed by a solicitor. I can tell you one thing, the NDA listed is not similar to other NDA's Apple give out. Some of them even restrict you from contributing on these forums.

Cromulent
Mar 10, 2008, 09:19 AM
NDA in the UK is not legal unless it is signed and witnessed by a solicitor.

Really? I'd be interested to know where you got that information from.

alaceo
Mar 10, 2008, 07:24 PM
So should commercial apps or even open source apps not be built under Xcode 3.1 yet and stay under 3.0 or is it alright? Sorry, legal documentation and restrictions are not my forte.