PDA

View Full Version : An open Society




Pinto
Oct 30, 2003, 09:47 PM
Secret 9/11 case before high court

The justices consider a petition for a case with no public record.

By Warren Richey | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
MIAMI Ð It's the case that doesn't exist. Even though two different federal courts have conducted hearings and issued rulings, there has been no public record of any action. No documents are available. No files. No lawyer is allowed to speak about it. Period.

Yet this seemingly phantom case does exist - and is now headed to the US Supreme Court in what could produce a significant test of a question as old as the Star Chamber, abolished in 17th-century England: How far should a policy of total secrecy extend into a system of justice?

Secrecy has been a key Bush administration weapon in the war on terrorism. Attorney General John Ashcroft warns that mere tidbits of information that seem innocuous about the massive Sept. 11 investigation could help Al Qaeda carry out new attacks.

Yet this highly unusual petition to the high court arising from a Miami case brings into sharp focus the tension between America's long tradition of open courts and the need for security in times of national peril. At issue is whether certain cases may be conducted entirely behind closed doors under a secret arrangement among prosecutors, judges, and docket clerks.

While secret trial tactics have reportedly been used by federal prosecutors to shield cooperating drug dealers, it's unclear whether the high court has ever directly confronted the issue. But that may change if they take up MKB v. Warden (No. 03-6747).

What's known about the case

This is among the first of the post-Sept. 11 terrorism cases to wend its way to the nation's highest tribunal. There was no public record of its existence, however, until the appeal was filed with the clerk of the US Supreme Court.

A federal judge and a three-judge federal appeals-court panel have conducted hearings and issued rulings. Yet lawyers and court personnel have been ordered to remain silent.

"The entire dockets for this case and appeal, every entry on them, are maintained privately, under seal, unavailable to the public," says a partially censored 27-page petition asking the high court to hear the case. "In the court of appeals, not just the filed documents and docket sheet are sealed from public view, but also hidden is the essential fact that a legal proceeding exists."

Despite the heavy secrecy, a brief docketing error led to a newspaper report identifying MKB by name in March. The report said MKB is an Algerian waiter in south Florida who was detained by immigration authorities and questioned by the FBI.

MKB's legal status remains unclear, but it appears unlikely from court documents that he is connected in any way to terrorism. He has been free since March 2002 on a $10,000 bond.

The case is significant because it could force a close examination of secret tactics that are apparently becoming increasingly common under Attorney General Ashcroft. In September 2001, he ordered that all deportation hearings with links to the Sept. 11 investigation be conducted secretly. In addition, the Justice Department has acknowledged that at least nine criminal cases related to the Sept. 11 investigation were being cloaked in total secrecy.

MKB v. Warden is the first indication that the Justice Department is extending its total secrecy policy to proceedings in federal courts dealing with habeas corpus - that is, an individual's right to force the government to justify his or her detention.

The case offers the Supreme Court an opportunity for the first time to spell out whether such secret judicial proceedings violate constitutional protections. It may also offer the first insight into how much deference a majority of justices is willing to grant the government in areas where the war on terrorism may tread upon fundamental American freedoms.

From the perspective of news reporters and government watchdogs, the case marks a potential turning point away from a long-held presumption that judicial proceedings in the US are open to public scrutiny.

The case is one of several currently on petition to the high court dealing with some aspect of the war on terror. Two cases relate to detainees at Guant‡namo Bay, Cuba, and one challenges Yasser Hamdi's open-ended detention as an enemy combatant. A fourth case seeks to force the Justice Department to disclose the names of detainees caught up in antiterror investigations - an issue closely related to the Miami habeas case.

Federal judges have the authority to order sensitive documents or even entire hearings sealed from public view when disclosure might harm national security. Such rulings are usually issued after the judge has explained the need for secrecy in a decision available to the public.

In addition, judges can order that an individual be identified in public court filings only by a pseudonym or by initials, as happened when the MKB case arrived at the US Supreme Court.

What is highly unusual in MKB v. Warden is that lower court judges ordered the entire case sealed from the start - preventing any mention of it to the public.

'Abuse of discretion'?

In her petition to the court, Miami federal public defender Kathleen Williams says the judges' actions authorizing the secrecy without any public notice, public hearings, or public findings amount to "an abuse of discretion" that requires corrective action by the justices.

"This habeas corpus case has been heard, appealed, and decided in complete secrecy," Ms. Williams says in her petition.

A government response to the petition is due Nov. 5. It will mark the first time the Justice Department has publicly acknowledged the existence of the habeas corpus action. The justices are set to consider the case during their Nov. 7 conference.

Justice Department officials have defended the blanket secrecy policy, saying that public hearings and public dockets would undermine efforts to recruit detainees as undercover operatives to infiltrate Al Qaeda cells in the US. According to press reports, similar secret trial tactics have been used by federal prosecutors to shield cooperating drug dealers from mention in public court documents that might blow their cover and end their use as operatives in ongoing undercover narcotics sting operations.


I suppose at least they are getting a trial.



zimv20
Oct 31, 2003, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by Pinto
I suppose at least they are getting a trial.

and i'm sure it'll be fair :rolleyes:

does this sit well with _anyone_?

Ugg
Oct 31, 2003, 07:49 AM
Sounds more like a lynching than a trial.

mactastic
Oct 31, 2003, 08:29 AM
I really hope we don't end up looking back at this period of the history of our judicial system with the same collective sense of shame we feel when we look at the interning of thousands of Japanese-Americans.

Desertrat
Oct 31, 2003, 08:34 AM
This is one of those deals where I guess I'm all over the spectrum of opinion. Fundamentally, I don't like secrecy in any governmental doings other than obvious national security.

I had a Top Secret clearance while in the Army, during my two years in Paris. I was a typewriter jockey, a documents control clerk.

I'd pick up a Paris "Tribune" at the news stand on the way to the office. There would be a story, say, "Russian submarine sighted SW of Malta." I'd see a Secret document saying, "Enemy submarine sighted at coordinates yadayada." I'd later see a Top Secret document saying, "Russian submarine sighted at coordinates yadayada." IOW, I'm cynical about some aspects of "national security". Too much overuse for coverup.

It seems to me that it should be reasonably obvious about "turning" some Bad Guy. He either is or is not a candidate for that. If not, no secrecy is needed beyond some of the early days of detention...A caveat is that holding somebody incognito while searching for cohorts is reasonable, if said cohorts might flee the country if they know their associate has been arrested.

But secrecy in judicial proceedings? Not Good.

'Rat

zimv20
Oct 31, 2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by mactastic
I really hope we don't end up looking back at this period of the history of our judicial system with the same collective sense of shame we feel when we look at the interning of thousands of Japanese-Americans.

i hope we _do_. it's just as shameful and i'd feel better about my country if we realize, at some point, how badly we messed up.

Desertrat
Oct 31, 2003, 12:09 PM
SFAIK, there was neither evidence nor probable cause, insofar as internment of the Japanese-Americans. That's not the case with this present problem. There is some amount of probable cause or evidence. It's not the incarceration as such; it's the secrecy surrounding it. Worse, the secrecy in the judicial process.

'Rat

zimv20
Oct 31, 2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Desertrat
SFAIK, there was neither evidence nor probable cause, insofar as internment of the Japanese-Americans. That's not the case with this present problem. There is some amount of probable cause or evidence.

but we don't _know_ that, either in these specific cases, or (shudder) any future ones. the problem is, as you pointed out, the secrecy.

authority w/o accountability is a scary thing indeed.

Desertrat
Oct 31, 2003, 01:05 PM
"authority w/o accountability is a scary thing indeed."

You may focus on this WOT stuff, but that statement holds true for EPA, OSHA, and all the other alphabet agencies. HUD can put the shaft to you just as easily as Ashcroft's folks.

'Rat

zimv20
Oct 31, 2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Desertrat
"authority w/o accountability is a scary thing indeed."

You may focus on this WOT stuff, but that statement holds true for EPA, OSHA, and all the other alphabet agencies. HUD can put the shaft to you just as easily as Ashcroft's folks.

'Rat

point taken, though i'd argue that the operations of those other agencies are a lot more transparent, both to the general public and to congress.

Desertrat
Nov 1, 2003, 06:30 PM
zim, I'd just as soon not totally hijack a thread over it, but regardless of any transparency, going to jail on specious nonsense is bad--no matter which agency does it to you.

'Rat

mactastic
Nov 2, 2003, 11:42 AM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know when the last time HUD put someone behind bars? Or the EPA? OSHA? AFAIK, those agencies mostly fine people, and inneffectually at that.

And it's never secret. Except when they meet with Cheney.:p

coolsoldier
Nov 2, 2003, 09:45 PM
Secrecy is a problem, not because it makes the case illegitimate, but because we have absolutely no way of ever knowing if the case was legitimate. Allowing secrecy is an open invitation to those in power to abuse the power they have, because we will have no way of knowing if they are doing anything wrong...

Desertrat
Nov 3, 2003, 07:36 AM
mac, I know of two cases where EPA has sent a couple of guys to "barbed wire city".

One was in New Jersey. With a game warden's advice and approval, a guy had some three truckloads of fill dirt dumped across a small marshy area to create a duck pond. EPA decided to push this "wetlands despoliation" case; the guy did six months.

In (IIRC) Tennessee, a man bought some land adjacent to a river. Away from the river and adjacent to this land, there had once been some sort of chemical facility. EPA discovered seepage into the river. Since it emanated from the new purchaser's land, he was ordered to stop the seepage. He didn't have the money to do this. (Estimated at some $300,000.) He wound up doing three years.

'Rat

mactastic
Nov 3, 2003, 08:33 AM
So the only examples you know are ones where the landowner was blameless and the big old nasty government came in and made an example of them?

I wonder if there is another side to either of those stories....

zimv20
Nov 3, 2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by mactastic
So the only examples you know are ones where the landowner was blameless and the big old nasty government came in and made an example of them?


i think the bigger point is: at least we _do_ know of them.

pseudobrit
Nov 3, 2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Desertrat
mac, I know of two cases where EPA has sent a couple of guys to "barbed wire city".

One was in New Jersey. With a game warden's advice and approval, a guy had some three truckloads of fill dirt dumped across a small marshy area to create a duck pond. EPA decided to push this "wetlands despoliation" case; the guy did six months.

In (IIRC) Tennessee, a man bought some land adjacent to a river. Away from the river and adjacent to this land, there had once been some sort of chemical facility. EPA discovered seepage into the river. Since it emanated from the new purchaser's land, he was ordered to stop the seepage. He didn't have the money to do this. (Estimated at some $300,000.) He wound up doing three years.

'Rat

I gotta say that the first instance was probably about right. If he didn't get permits and/or zoning variances from the local government to do what he did, it doesn't matter if GW Bush himself thought it was a good idea, he shouldn't have done it and got a bit (perhaps too much) of punishment.

The second case sound fishy. I'd like to see a link to that case. AFAIK, the guy could have made some reasonable defense against this sort of thing. At the very least, he could have forfeited the land to rid himself of the problem.

mactastic
Nov 3, 2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
I gotta say that the first instance was probably about right. If he didn't get permits and/or zoning variances from the local government to do what he did, it doesn't matter if GW Bush himself thought it was a good idea, he shouldn't have done it and got a bit (perhaps too much) of punishment.

The second case sound fishy. I'd like to see a link to that case. AFAIK, the guy could have made some reasonable defense against this sort of thing. At the very least, he could have forfeited the land to rid himself of the problem.

We need to enforce the laws on the books right? I mean, thats what the NRA keeps saying.;)

Desertrat
Nov 3, 2003, 07:11 PM
"If he didn't get permits and/or zoning variances from the local government to do what he did..."

Huh? Who sez this was needed? The guy wanted to make the world better for ducks, on his own land, out in the boonies.

Ranchers have been building stock ponds for their cattle since long before I was born. Same sort of process, same sort of locations. Can make for excellent fishing, too.

You think maybe we should have permits for just breathing?

'Rat

coolsoldier
Nov 3, 2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Desertrat
"If he didn't get permits and/or zoning variances from the local government to do what he did..."

Huh? Who sez this was needed? The guy wanted to make the world better for ducks, on his own land, out in the boonies.

Ranchers have been building stock ponds for their cattle since long before I was born. Same sort of process, same sort of locations. Can make for excellent fishing, too.

You think maybe we should have permits for just breathing?

'Rat

Comparing breathing to building a pond--
Bad comparison. The guy didn't need to build a duck pond to live ;)

Requiring a permit for that sort of thing just makes sure that people don't do stupid things. You can never count on "some guy" to be smart. Think of it as a counter-stupidity method :D.

mactastic
Nov 3, 2003, 07:17 PM
Possibly. If your breathing affects someones property, or health somehow.

I hope that's not the case however!;)

Oh and I'm just guessing, but does "making the world better for ducks" mean shooting them in part?

pseudobrit
Nov 3, 2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Desertrat
"If he didn't get permits and/or zoning variances from the local government to do what he did..."

Huh? Who sez this was needed? The guy wanted to make the world better for ducks, on his own land, out in the boonies.

Ranchers have been building stock ponds for their cattle since long before I was born. Same sort of process, same sort of locations. Can make for excellent fishing, too.

You think maybe we should have permits for just breathing?

'Rat

Come on now, that's a bit of an over-reaction.

"I'll just build a refinery in my parents' backyard. So what if it's zoned residential?

Just trying to make a buck, y'know. Next thing you know, breathing will be outlawed!"

Don't be silly.

Zoning ordinances, fire codes, building codes and the permit system have been around for a long time. Breaking them is a serious violation of the law.

Terraforming is not something to be taken lightly. It can destroy acres of other people's property. I've seen it done wrong, and it ruined an entire stream for a few miles.

If you want a new pool but hit a gas main digging it because you didn't get clearance from the utilities and a permit from your township, don't you agree that you've broken the law and should pay dearly?

mactastic
Nov 4, 2003, 10:55 AM
I don't think it's an overreaction to him Pseudo. It's the same slippery slope that conservatives seem to fear, namely that if you give the government a little bit of control, it will take control of everything. Registering your guns will get them taken away. Regulate land use and all of a sudden you need a permit to breath. It's a common tactic.

Restricting what you can and can't do on/with your land is not the same as taking it away from you.

Desertrat
Nov 4, 2003, 07:38 PM
I'd appreciate it if folks didn't push the envelope to extremes. I mentioned, specifically, a duck-pond sized deal. I gave a common example of somewhat larger projects that are commonly accepted practice. I did not bring up large dams or projects which could "destroy acres of other people's property".

I spent eleven years working in a state regulatory agency. Since way back before WW II, the law in Texas about reservoirs is that if the capacity is over 100 acre-feet, you need a state permit. But our engineers didn't go out and worry over whether or not a small reservoir might just be too much over 75 or 80 acre-feet...(Most of the projects are in the tens of thousands of acre-feet, and I was involved in the designs of over a dozen thereof.)

My gripe is not with regulation. It is against regulation enforced in really-weird manner. And, to some extent I have a gripe with those who'd have it believed that regulatory weirdlies are rare. They're not.

mactastic
Nov 4, 2003, 07:47 PM
'Rat, ad absurdum is a useful tool, so don't get too infuriated when people push your theories to the edge of the envelope.

And I know regulatory weirdness occurs often. My biggest gripe is with those who feel it's easier to ask forgivness than permission. There have been a couple of prime examples around here lately, one involving a golf course and another involving a Home Depot (neither of which are small projects). In both of these cases, the owners did things behind the regulators backs, then stalled and greased palms and generally Did Bad until they got something close to the permit that they would never have been able to get had they gone the legal route. I would like to see the laws applied to them in the same manner as the duck farmer (who you never did say if he was shooting those ducks;)). Inconsistency in how the law is applied is bad, but ignorance of the law is no defense, as I'm sure you would agree. If the regulation says get permission before you make a duck pond, you better go do it or risk the consequences!

From what you said, it sounds like you think the duck farmer got the shaft for some reason other than flaunting the law. What other reason would the gov't have had to go after him? Did he piss someone in a high place off?