Ipod Touch 32GB Dead Pixel

[transitionsxell]

Hi,

I bought an expensive 32GB touch from Amazon and it has a dead white pixel right in the center of the screen. I already tried to use the Apple iphone software to try to unstick it, but it did not.
What should I do about this? I paid almost 500 dollars for this Ipod and I feel the screen should have all working pixels for that price. Can I get an exchange over the phone with Apple or do I have to go through Amazon? Will the next one be the same?

Thanks for you help!

[aethelbert]

You have 153,600 pixels on there. Perfect screens on any device are rare. One stuck pixel is pretty good, most devices would have at least one and usually more. Don't bother returning it because nobody will take it back. You've got to have ~7 stuck/dead pixels in a square inch before most companies will consider an exchange.

If they were to go through and inspect every screen to make sure that no devices with any dead/stuck pixels would ship, you would be paying a lot more than $500.

[Star Destroyer]

I kinda agree with Akonradi on this... When i bought my macbook it came with 1 dead pixel, that was stuck black....
Well, if i have a white background it shows up, but i have learned to find really nice black ones so it doesnt always show, in movies you cant even tell because the colour changes so much anyway..

My advice is that you find a nice white background that you like and learn to deal with it. Or sell it on ebay, and buy a new one...
You will lose money, but then again you are being a bit picky if its only 1 pixel.

Don't hate me for saying that please
Cheers!

[ebel3003]

I would try to exchange it with Amazon. I know, it's only one dead pixel, but it's still a defect out of the box.

Then again, I am pretty picky.

[AppleNewton]

honestly on such a small screen that is a bit of an annoyance, say on 23" ~ 30" display well not so much.

I purchased a 30" display, it has one stuck pixel that can only be seen on red and fairly visible on skin tones (such as in a photo or movie that generally has light ~ fair skinned people) and i figured okay thats not incredibly bad compared to the many more i c ould have had on such a huge display.

i also purchased a 30Gb iPod 5th Gen last year 2 dead pixels, right out of the box i was still in store asked them about it and said if i could double check another one, theyre were hesitant and reluctant but said well im spending X amount on it i might aswell get something decent and one ill be happy with.
If not ill go somewhere else simple as that.

So id ask for maybe an RMA maybe they can send you a new one and then you send the old one back do a cross shipment.

its upto you, im quite picky with dead/stuck pixels esp on small screens.


goodluck
cheers!

[davidy]

If the dead pixel was within 10% of the edges or top or bottom maybe you could live with it, but if it's in the ceneter of the screen I'd try my best for a replacement.

[aethelbert]

The problem is that even if you complain and they replace it, who's to say that the next one won't have a dead pixel? Or the one after that?

Your chances of getting a screen with one dead pixel are very high. Frankly, on my first iPhone it took me four months to notice that I had a dead pixel and I have to look for it now to even find it on the black home screen (it's yellow). Now I notice that I have four, but I never see (unless I'm looking for them) them and they don't affect my use of the phone.

Getting a screen with only one dead pixel is very good. There are plenty of other problems out there that are worse. If you get a replacement, you could still have a dead pixel. Maybe you'll have two, or eight. Or maybe crackling audio. Now ask yourself if it's worth the trouble to go through all of this just to get rid of one dead pixel that you'll probably never notice. You could eaisly have to go through ten iPods to get a perfect screen.

[boramora]

If Apple won't do anything about it for you, here's a nifty Web app that you can direct your Safari to and see if you can fix your dead/stuck pixel. :)

http://www.apple.com/webapps/utilities/stuckpixelfix.html

[ukdanj]

I'm about to return my 2nd 32GB iPod Touch to my local Apple store this evening, I had 5 stuck pixels on the 1st one and 3 on the one I have now, all in or near to the center of the screen. I could handle one or two at the edge of the screen but to suggest people should just live with this, after shelling out $500, is ridiculous.

[aethelbert]

I'm about to return my 2nd 32GB iPod Touch to my local Apple store this evening, I had 5 stuck pixels on the 1st one and 3 on the one I have now, all in or near to the center of the screen. I could handle one or two at the edge of the screen but to suggest people should just live with this, after shelling out $500, is ridiculous.
I shelled out a lot more than $500 for my iMac and I have three stuck pixels. But I'm not crying to Apple about it. It doesn't matter how much you pay for it, because dead pixels are just a fact of life in the LCD world.

If there were inspections for every LCD leaving the factory for color, contrast, dead pixels, etc, production costs would soar to extreme levels. It doesn't matter how much you paid for it.

And you might be returning a lot of iPods, because coming across a perfect one could take a long time...

[ukdanj]

Your right it doesn't matter how much you pay for something, as long as it works properly. I've looked at 2 ipod touch's owned by friends without a stuck pixel insight, so I guess it is possible to have a perfect screen.
I'm sick of fools who just bend over and take whatever Apple and Steve Jobs sticks them with. Your not doing anybody any good by "not crying to Apple".

[aethelbert]

Your right it doesn't matter how much you pay for something, as long as it works properly. I've looked at 2 ipod touch's owned by friends without a stuck pixel insight, so I guess it is possible to have a perfect screen.
I'm sick of fools who just bend over and take whatever Apple and Steve Jobs sticks them with. Your not doing anybody any good by "not crying to Apple".
Well, you may think that Apple is soft on their return policies now, but if people like you just keep returning everything with problems that are normal and accepted among the entire industry, their return policy will turn for the worse and you won't be able to do that anymore. Inspecting every LCD for small and usually virtually-unnoticeable pixel problems is not only a waste of money for the company, but also a very big waste of production capacity and the labor force (it's not really endless in China...).

[transitionsxell]

Well, thanks for the responses. My opinion that I formed after researching this is that after you have paid 500 dollars for an Ipod it should have no faulty pixels. One dead pixel on a 30" screen is a lot different than a faulty pixel on a 3" screen. I am not sure whether or not I am going to deal with the hassle of exchanging it, but I can see the white pixel on the center of the black home screen which bothers me. If it were on a bigger screen it would be less noticeable and I would not care. I believe the consumer should get a good product with no problems and it is a fault of Apple of not getting a screen that has been through good quality control.
And if people return stuff Apple will realize it is easier to fix this issue as it will cost them more money to provide replacement ipods than to have proper quality control in the first place. They can't raise prices because then they will lose business to competition and consumers would not approve of price hikes for the same item.

[aethelbert]

Well, thanks for the responses. My opinion that I formed after researching this is that after you have paid 500 dollars for an Ipod it should have no faulty pixels. One dead pixel on a 30" screen is a lot different than a faulty pixel on a 3" screen. I am not sure whether or not I am going to deal with the hassle of exchanging it, but I can see the white pixel on the center of the black home screen which bothers me. If it were on a bigger screen it would be less noticeable and I would not care. I believe the consumer should get a good product with no problems and it is a fault of Apple of not getting a screen that has been through good quality control.
And if people return stuff Apple will realize it is easier to fix this issue as it will cost them more money to provide replacement ipods than to have proper quality control in the first place. They can't raise prices because then they will lose business to competition and consumers would not approve of price hikes for the same item.
Sorry, but if every LCD in the industry went through QC like you are suggesting, you would be paying a lot more for your device. Dead pixels are a fact of life and you've got to learn to deal with them, because chances are that a replacement would have (a) dead pixel(s) as well. It doesn't matter if you pay $249 for an 8GB refurb or $600 for a 8GB iPhone, they all have the same screens. If Apple were to just throw out every screen with a dead or stuck pixel, then not only would the supply be very low and the prices very high, but it would also be a complete waste. Right now, there are standards that screens have to meet to be able to obtain certain production levels. If quality control gets as strong so that every screen in the entire industry is perfect, then there will be a low supply of screens. There are just some things that you have to accept with technology. I paid $600 for my iPhone and it had multiple dead pixels. Although I paid more than you, I understood the problem and I live with it every day, but I've learned not to notice them and they never cause me any problems. In fact, it took me three months just to notice the first one.

So don't look at the stuck pixel, don't pay attention to it, don't think about it. Pretty soon, it will be as good as gone. I'm serious. I know that it might be hard at first, but once you stop thinking about it, you will use the device as if it didn't exist and your attention will cover the entire screen instead of that one spot. It's a small pixel, so it's not a huge deal.

[BrownManUPS]

Sorry, but if every LCD in the industry went through QC like you are suggesting, you would be paying a lot more for your device. Dead pixels are a fact of life and you've got to learn to deal with them, because chances are that a replacement would have (a) dead pixel(s) as well. It doesn't matter if you pay $249 for an 8GB refurb or $600 for a 8GB iPhone, they all have the same screens. If Apple were to just throw out every screen with a dead or stuck pixel, then not only would the supply be very low and the prices very high, but it would also be a complete waste. Right now, there are standards that screens have to meet to be able to obtain certain production levels. If quality control gets as strong so that every screen in the entire industry is perfect, then there will be a low supply of screens. There are just some things that you have to accept with technology. I paid $600 for my iPhone and it had multiple dead pixels. Although I paid more than you, I understood the problem and I live with it every day, but I've learned not to notice them and they never cause me any problems. In fact, it took me three months just to notice the first one.

So don't look at the stuck pixel, don't pay attention to it, don't think about it. Pretty soon, it will be as good as gone. I'm serious. I know that it might be hard at first, but once you stop thinking about it, you will use the device as if it didn't exist and your attention will cover the entire screen instead of that one spot. It's a small pixel, so it's not a huge deal.

I think no matter how much you try to defend your position on the dead pixel subject, people will still be pissed. You made it very clear earlier that dead pixels are a fact of life, I guess just let them go try and see if they can get a return...but he's right you really can't expect a perfect LCD these days.

If everyone literally were to complain, then maybe you'd see tighter reins on the return policy, but you'd also see a lot of angry customers who paid 200 dollars for applecare on their device. I think the whole "if you really really reallly can't live with out it we will replace it" attitude taken by the Carmel store AND many other apple stores is a good one, because it encourages customers to still come in and try, and adamant customers to be repeat buyers.

[transitionsxell]

I guess I came across as being picky but I have never returned a computer or screen for a defect. I guess I just expected a flawless ipod for that price and if it had been the 8GB for 260 it wouldn't have bothered me. Anyways I will not go through the trouble of exchanging it because I only keep my technology for 6 months to a year. I think because of the price of it I was looking for every tiny flaw. :rolleyes:

[aethelbert]

Taken by the Carmel store
Apple store in Carmel? Haha, I wish. You probably do to ;)

[BrownManUPS]

Apple store in Carmel? Haha, I wish. You probably do to ;)

It's a hit or miss. They are just so slow no matter what verdict though.

[Jack Flash]

I shelled out a lot more than $500 for my iMac and I have three stuck pixels. But I'm not crying to Apple about it. It doesn't matter how much you pay for it, because dead pixels are just a fact of life in the LCD world.

If there were inspections for every LCD leaving the factory for color, contrast, dead pixels, etc, production costs would soar to extreme levels. It doesn't matter how much you paid for it.

And you might be returning a lot of iPods, because coming across a perfect one could take a long time...
You need to stop comparing anyone who isn't completely satisfied with Apple's every move to a crying infant. Really.

I agree that it is impossible to guarantee "perfect" LCDs.

[aethelbert]

You need to stop comparing anyone who isn't completely satisfied with Apple's every move to a crying infant. Really.
Where did I compare anyone on this board to a crying infant?

[Jack Flash]

Where did I compare anyone on this board to a crying infant?
I don't have time to search through your posts but you and several others have referred to any contrary opinion to Apple's update fees as 'crying' or 'whining'

[aethelbert]

I don't have time to search through your posts but you and several others have referred to any contrary opinion to Apple's update fees as 'crying' or 'whining'
I use the word whine... Because anyone can whine about anything, they don't have to be infants. Complaining in the manner that many do on here is, by definition, whining.

[kepner]

learn to deal with it

"Bend over and take it up the tail pipe," if you will. :rolleyes: That's hardly an acceptable solution. If the dead pixel bothers you, and it certainly would bother me, demand a replacement.

[weckart]

Well, you may think that Apple is soft on their return policies now, but if people like you just keep returning everything with problems that are normal and accepted among the entire industry, their return policy will turn for the worse and you won't be able to do that anymore. Inspecting every LCD for small and usually virtually-unnoticeable pixel problems is not only a waste of money for the company, but also a very big waste of production capacity and the labor force (it's not really endless in China...).

The stuck/dead pixel may be a fact of the industry, but industry norms are irrelevant to the consumer. It would be interesting to hear what somebody who knows about US consumer law has to say about this.
In the UK, the same tired record comes out about "acceptable levels of dead pixels" whereas the law is clear - products sold must be fit for purpose. If your screen has a dead pixel in the centre, then Amazon or whoever has to take it back and either replace with a satisfactory replacement or refund in full. End of discussion.

[aethelbert]

In the UK, the same tired record comes out about "acceptable levels of dead pixels" whereas the law is clear - products sold must be fit for purpose. If your screen has a dead pixel in the centre, then Amazon or whoever has to take it back and either replace with a satisfactory replacement or refund in full. End of discussion.
How does one dead pixel make a screen of 150,000+ pixels unfit for its purpose? They don't have to take it back, because the device is still fully functional. Everything will work just the same with or without it.

[Jack Flash]

How does one dead pixel make a screen of 150,000+ pixels unfit for its purpose? They don't have to take it back, because the device is still fully functional. Everything will work just the same with or without it.

Of course, he can return it for any other number of reasons, the best of which being he was not satisfied with the device.

[anjinha]

When I got my first Macbook it had a dead pixel and it bothered me a lot. So I got Apple to exchange it. At first my new Macbook's screen looked perfect but then I found another dead pixel. So I just learned to live with it and it stopped bothering me. I never notice it now. My iPod Touch also has a stuck pixel and I just never notice it.

I understand that you feel that for the price you payed the device should be flawless. But you said it wouldn't bother that much you if you had bought an 8GB and it had a dead pixel. The thing is you're not paying 400 because this device is better, it just has more storage. Other than that it's the same as the 8GB.

If it bothers you that much you ca try to exchange it but you can get an iPod that has 2 or 5 dead pixels. One is not that much.

[aethelbert]

Of course, he can return it for any other number of reasons, the best of which being he was not satisfied with the device.
The thing is, though, he could quite possibly get another device that is worse in terms of the dead pixel count. Getting a perfect device is an impossible dream in this industry.

[Jack Flash]

The thing is, though, he could quite possibly get another device that is worse in terms of the dead pixel count. Getting a perfect device is an impossible dream in this industry.

I wouldn't call it impossible as my Touch has (as far as I can tell) a perfect screen... and so does my MacBook, and my cellphone and my LCD TV, and my Sony PSP.

[kepner]

If there are any dead pixels on my Touch, I certainly can't find them. I'd prefer to have several dead pixels in spots where I don't notice them, than to have one in a spot where it bothers me.

[aethelbert]

I wouldn't call it impossible as my Touch has (as far as I can tell) a perfect screen... and so does my MacBook, and my cellphone and my LCD TV, and my Sony PSP.
Somehow I really doubt that. They're really everywhere but usually very hard to find. So it's good if you have them but don't notice. But if you really don't have any, consider yourself to be very lucky. But the iPod touch is still far from a perfect device. It is what it is advertised as, but improvements could be made.

[davidy]

Apple is rather non-commital about the acceptable number of dead pixels:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=22194

Screen Tek, which suppliles screens to laptop manufacturers (a much larger screen than the touch) has a standard of zero to two dead pixels through the warranty period.
http://www.screentekinc.com/lcd-quality-standards.shtml

[Jack Flash]

Somehow I really doubt that. They're really everywhere but usually very hard to find. So it's good if you have them but don't notice. But if you really don't have any, consider yourself to be very lucky. But the iPod touch is still far from a perfect device. It is what it is advertised as, but improvements could be made.
I've run dead pixel checks on each device so, I'm confident there aren't any.

[aethelbert]

I've run dead pixel checks on each device so, I'm confident there aren't any.
Software cannot detect them. All it can really do is flash colors, but with pixels so small it's sometimes pretty hard to tell. I'm not saying that you have any dead pixels, I'm just saying that they often go unnoticed, which is a good thing.

[Jack Flash]

Software cannot detect them. All it can really do is flash colors, but with pixels so small it's sometimes pretty hard to tell. I'm not saying that you have any dead pixels, I'm just saying that they often go unnoticed, which is a good thing.

After finding a stuck pixel (which went away before selling) on my Dell 2007WFP I inspected all of my devices with a magnifying glass using red, blue and green images.

If I have a dead pixel, it's doing a remarkable job hiding.

[The Man]

I agree that it is impossible to guarantee "perfect" LCDs.

Note that Philips does sell LCD monitors with a no dead pixel warranty called Perfect Panels. Philips also sells portable DVD players with a zero bright dot guarantee (these do seem to be more expensive). And Samsung does have a zero dead pixel policy for some screens. But most companies don't guarantee pixel defect free screens. But anyone is free, in my opinion, to try and exchange their gear if they can't live with the defect(s). It's always a lottery, though, getting the perfect screen, unless the company already guarantees it. Does anyone know how the pixel warranties are with the Sony PSP and Nintendo DS?

[queshy]

My 24" iMac, MacBook Air, and the 2 macbooks we have in the family all have NO dead or stuck pixels. Trust me, I've checked, and there really aren't any. I still, however, haven't found an iPod touch with OUT a stuck/dead pixel. They're all effected. Quit while you're ahead...

[ageha]

The screen has a very low resolution and it must be very cheap to buy for Apple. How much may the panel costs them, 5 USD? For the price they're selling the device they can afford to buy panels with a higher pixel error class.

[aethelbert]

The screen has a very low resolution and it must be very cheap to buy for Apple. How much may the panel costs them, 5 USD? For the price they're selling the device they can afford to buy panels with a higher pixel error class.
Ummm... It has a higher resolution per square inch than most of their computers... Resolution doesn't matter as much as pixel density.

[ageha]

Anyway, the displays are very cheap even if they have zero pixel errors.

[e12a]

i just bought a iPod touch 8gb and it has 5 stuck pixels in the lower right quarter of the sceen portriat mode. But I already sent in the UPC for the back to school promo. Can I still exchange it?

Edit: I didn't take it out of the protective plastic so I could not really see the stuck pixels

And I have already tried to use the stuck pixel webapp to no avail

[epicwelshman]

After reading the first ten or so comments I'm ignoring the rest of this thread because it usually degenerates into people misreading other people's comments and getting all offended, yada yada yada.

However, I've never noticed a stuck pixel on any of my screens. I'm sure I've had them, but I've never ever seen them. Maybe I'm long overdue. Knowing my luck I'll end up buying a 30" Cinema Display and have a stuck pixel bang in the middle.

[e12a]

okay I called apple support. I have to send it in for repair. Does anyone know if the back will get all scratched up? I mean this thing is basically new. And I don't want a lot of scratches on it.

[aethelbert]

okay I called apple support. I have to send it in for repair. Does anyone know if the back will get all scratched up? I mean this thing is basically new. And I don't want a lot of scratches on it.
They will most likely send you a different one, refurb or new. So it'll probably be fine. If you're close to a retail store, though, you could just go there and they would essentially do the same thing for you in ten minutes.

[ilovebananas]

Just live with it.
As mentioned before it is deemed acceptable. I know as I work in retail (TV's) and my brother in-law works for uk trading standards.
He is adamant that despite people moaning, the fact that there is an ISO standard governing LCD screen pixel defects, as long as the device is within the standard, nobody has to do a thing for you.
The standard basically allows one dead pixel per million and about 3 sub-pixels per million. This is accepted as industry standard, the only way to get an exchange is to as for good will gestures as by law it is NOT faulty.
Good luck.

[e12a]

They will most likely send you a different one, refurb or new. So it'll probably be fine. If you're close to a retail store, though, you could just go there and they would essentially do the same thing for you in ten minutes.

Thanks for the suggestion I'll try the applestore later today after finals.

I can live with one or two but with five all spread in one quarter of he screen that isn't acceptable. None of my lcds have stuck/dead pixels.

[Edge100]

Do not accept it. Take it back. Don't start or contribute to this becoming the "norm".

It's true that not all LCDs will be perfect; that's fine, but I'm paying for a specific number of pixels, and that's what I want.

I will never tolerate even a single dead pixel. All companies have "policies" on this, of course, but unless they make you aware of it before you buy, and you purchase the device anyway, they HAVE TO exchange the device for you.

Do not accept dead pixels. Ever.

[Edge100]

Apple is rather non-commital about the acceptable number of dead pixels:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=22194

Screen Tek, which suppliles screens to laptop manufacturers (a much larger screen than the touch) has a standard of zero to two dead pixels through the warranty period.
http://www.screentekinc.com/lcd-quality-standards.shtml

All of this is irrelevant if Apple doesn't tell you this BEFORE you buy the device. If I had this info in hand, if it were prominently displayed in the Apple Store or online, then I would be making an informed decision to buy; the onus would pass to me. It's like stores displaying their return policies; I can't be expected to read their mind, but if I know the policy before I buy, then I have to abide by it.

But Apple doesn't tell you because they KNOW that most people will just live with it. Then when the odd person complains, they hold up this policy in an attempt to stonewall you. But don't give in. You have rights as a consumer, and part of that is not being held to contract terms that you were not aware of prior to purchase.

Please, please, please do not accept dead or stuck pixels. Send them back.

[e12a]

update: went into an apple store today, the genius said my five stuck pixels were "within spec" because they were spaced far enough...but he still took it back and gave me a new one...

The new one has two, but they are in the opposite corners and hard to notice... I think I'll stick with this one. Much better than the one I had before.

[Edge100]

update: went into an apple store today, the genius said my five stuck pixels were "within spec" because they were spaced far enough...but he still took it back and gave me a new one...

The new one has two, but they are in the opposite corners and hard to notice... I think I'll stick with this one. Much better than the one I had before.

"Within spec" is what they're trained to tell people who, generally speaking, will just accept this explanation and move on.

But, once again, unless you saw the "spec" before you bought, and consequently made an informed purchase, you are NOT bound by Apple's arbitrary number. If you have a single dead pixel, then you do NOT have Apple's stated resolution; it may not bother you, and that's fine. But if you want a replacement, you are entitled. It is not up to Apple to decide that 5 pixels is acceptable, unless they tell you this before you buy. It is exactly analogous to a store's return policy; you are only bound by it if you were made aware of it (or should have reasonably been aware of it) prior to purchase.

One dead pixel is grounds for exchange; end of story.

[ilovebananas]

There is an international document relating to pixel defects. It is available for all to view on ISO's website. It can be considered legally enforceable. So Apple are not being "arbitrary". Two dead pixels are within spec.
Sorry if you don't agree but look it up, it exists so live with it. Just because you haven't checked what the industry standard (backed up by ISO) is, that is not a reason to then reject it.

[Edge100]

There is an international document relating to pixel defects. It is available for all to view on ISO's website. It can be considered legally enforceable. So Apple are not being "arbitrary". Two dead pixels are within spec.
Sorry if you don't agree but look it up, it exists so live with it. Just because you haven't checked what the industry standard (backed up by ISO) is, that is not a reason to then reject it.

The ISO document refers to a certain build quality; it has nothing, as far as I can tell, to do with a legally enforceable contract law tenet.

I would be willing to accept this explanation if Apple prominently posted the ISO standard to which each of their products are held. At least then I would be able to make an informed decision. But if I'm making the purchase without knowing this information, then Apple can't come back with "well, you agreed to this when you bought the product"; I didn't!

Sorry, but if I get a dead pixel, it's going back.

[ilovebananas]

All sales are made implying that both parties agree to adhere to any relevant laws and standards in place. If you are ignorant of them/don't agree, then don't buy.
The company I work for just had a guy like you who wouldn't accept that a 40" (1080p) lcd could have a dead pixel. Do the math, the screen is 99.9999998% perfect (accepted as 100% )
He tried to take it to court, guess what? After speaking to his "lawyer" he never came back. Imagine his lawyer told him he would loose!

[Edge100]

All sales are made implying that both parties agree to adhere to any relevant laws and standards in place. If you are ignorant of them/don't agree, then don't buy.
The company I work for just had a guy like you who wouldn't accept that a 40" (1080p) lcd could have a dead pixel. Do the math, the screen is 99.9999998% perfect (accepted as 100% )
He tried to take it to court, guess what? After speaking to his "lawyer" he never came back. Imagine his lawyer told him he would loose!

Only if a reasonable person would know the laws and standards in place. Apple knows that most people don't know the laws and standards, and they know that a "reasonable" person wouldn't; granted, ignorance of the law is no excuse, but Apple is still obliged to state its specs up front.

I see the situation as exactly analogous to return policies. The store has an obligation to inform the customer what its policy is, or at least to make the information accessible, such that a reasonable person could easily access the information.

A reasonable person cannot be expected to know esoteric aspects of consumer law; Apple has an obligation to inform its customers.

I'd like to see a test case on this.

[FishStik]

I shelled out a lot more than $500 for my iMac and I have three stuck pixels. But I'm not crying to Apple about it. It doesn't matter how much you pay for it, because dead pixels are just a fact of life in the LCD world.
You can't compare dead pixels on an iMac to dead pixels on an iPod. An iPod's screen is a lot smaller than an iMac's (last time I checked). Since there are fewer pixels on the iPod's screen, dead pixels would be more bothersome than on a big screen like the iMac's.

I say if it really bothers you, don't just "deal with it". You are the customer. You made the purchase, so you shouldn't have to put up with out-of-the-box defects. I'm guessing it does bother you since you made a thread and asked for help to fix it. Contact Apple to see if they will help you (their customer service is decent), and if they won't, return it to Amazon and buy another one. You'll lose a few bucks, but if you think it's worth it, go for it.

[aethelbert]

You can't compare dead pixels on an iMac to dead pixels on an iPod.
Sure you can. The ratio applies across the entire line of products. More pixels=more dead pixels. Whatever the resolution of the screen, there will always be a chance of getting dead pixels. My point was that it doesn't matter how much you pay, dead pixels happen.

[FishStik]

OK, you said your iMac (which contains 1,764,000 or 2,304,000 pixels) had three dead pixels. e12a here said his iPod touch (containing 153,600 pixels) had five dead pixels.

Wait, more pixels = less dead pixels?! Oh well, dead pixels happen. I guess I'm just unlucky. [/sarcasm]

[ilovebananas]

agreed Apple should let you know their policies.
They do. If you ask them they can show you. Obviousely it isn't possible to display everthing in big easy to read print on the walls of the store. If they did every store on the planet would just be an ugly mess of posters and signs. All a retailer has to be able to do is supply you with their terms upon request. You are free to ask before you buy or after. This applies to all retailers not just apple. If you buy from say Amazon, they don't load a screen before you checkout showing you their policies. You can go to the appropriate link on thier site and find them yourself.
Ignorance is not an excuse. If you sell an item for a friend and it turns out he stole it, you are still an accessory after the fact. Even if he didn't tell you it was stolen!
Also receipts or invoices always mention that sales are made subject to terms and conditions.
If you get home and see this, don't use/open goods until you have asked what they are.

I agree with other posters that a macbook screen is totally different to an ipod screen. However as stated, the rate of defects remians the same. Basically it is that 2 pixels in every million are allowed to be dead or imperfect.
So on a low res Ipod screen (153k pixels) 1 would be ok, but 2 would be pushing it. On a macbook (just over 1 millon pixels) 3 (maybe 4) would be ok.
a few dead pixels on a screen (that can't be seen at usual viewing distance) are a lot less of a pain than the old CRT problems (screen bowing, geometry errors, magnetisation....)

[Grentz]

akonradi, a lot of the info you are spewing is very very incorrect in the actual industry. Just FYI :D

The company I used to work for distributed LCD panels in TV, PC Monitor, and Portable DVD player form and thus we had to know the ins and outs of dead pixels.

The fact is it is more aggravating on a small device with a low resolution (native res. does matter cause native res is related to the pixels in an LCD) as there is less screen area and less pixels so they stand out more.

It also is a false fact to assume you have to get dead pixels, by far MOST LCDs do not have dead pixels especially smaller ones as there are less pixels to get damage and have an issue during distribution or shipping (which is when most issues occur).

Also QC checks should and many times do cover dead pixels, the issue is many dead pixels happen during packing, distribution, and shipping and thus the problem is almost impossible to remedy with before checks (this is also why there are many dead pixel policies out there).

Saying they are so hard to spot is also a lie, pixels stuck on stand out very easily on lower res screens like the ipods. Pixels stuck off are better and pixel stuck to a more muted color are better, but on small screens you usually can still tell. and once you know where they are your mind goes to them.

I do not see why the iPod Touch should have so many occurances of dead pixels though...unless apple is cheaping out with a cheap manufacture for the displays.

[Edge100]

agreed Apple should let you know their policies.
They do. If you ask them they can show you. Obviousely it isn't possible to display everthing in big easy to read print on the walls of the store. If they did every store on the planet would just be an ugly mess of posters and signs. All a retailer has to be able to do is supply you with their terms upon request. You are free to ask before you buy or after. This applies to all retailers not just apple. If you buy from say Amazon, they don't load a screen before you checkout showing you their policies. You can go to the appropriate link on thier site and find them yourself.
Ignorance is not an excuse. If you sell an item for a friend and it turns out he stole it, you are still an accessory after the fact. Even if he didn't tell you it was stolen!
Also receipts or invoices always mention that sales are made subject to terms and conditions.
If you get home and see this, don't use/open goods until you have asked what they are.

I agree with other posters that a macbook screen is totally different to an ipod screen. However as stated, the rate of defects remians the same. Basically it is that 2 pixels in every million are allowed to be dead or imperfect.
So on a low res Ipod screen (153k pixels) 1 would be ok, but 2 would be pushing it. On a macbook (just over 1 millon pixels) 3 (maybe 4) would be ok.
a few dead pixels on a screen (that can't be seen at usual viewing distance) are a lot less of a pain than the old CRT problems (screen bowing, geometry errors, magnetisation....)

The requirement for you to seek out specs is not infinite; you can't, for instance, be expected to seek out the tolerance spec for every single chip in an iPod Touch, for instance.

Apple posts the specs for its Cinema Displays; one could make an argument that, in this case, the consumer should be aware of them because they are prominently displayed on the website.

Not so for the other products (at least the ones I checked). Even the iMac specs at apple.com/imac do not include anything that would lead the reader to know the dead pixel spec.

Bottom line: Apple has to make a reasonable effort to inform its potential customers as to the operating specs of its products, and the customer has to be reasonably aware of those specs. For some specs, Apple does just this. For others, including its dead/stuck pixel spec (which is related to the ISO spec), it does not. Thus, the customer cannot be expected to know this.

One dead pixel: get an exchange.

[aethelbert]

The fact is it is more aggravating on a small device with a low resolution (native res. does matter cause native res is related to the pixels in an LCD) as there is less screen area and less pixels so they stand out more.
very true

It also is a false fact to assume you have to get dead pixels, by far MOST LCDs do not have dead pixels especially smaller ones as there are less pixels to get damage and have an issue during distribution or shipping (which is when most issues occur).
I'm not saying that you always get them. But getting one or two is the least of your worries when other screens have even more than that.

Also QC checks should and many times do cover dead pixels, the issue is many dead pixels happen during packing, distribution, and shipping and thus the problem is almost impossible to remedy with before checks (this is also why there are many dead pixel policies out there).
Yeah, they don't always happen when the LCDs are made. But, if a company were to have a quality control system where every LCD gets checked and all dead pixels rejected, costs would rise in very high levels. The thing is, though, that they do happen quite often and rejecting every problem, no matter how small, would make everything cost a lot more. This is also why there are policies in place to allow exchanges after a certain amount of dead pixels.

Saying they are so hard to spot is also a lie, pixels stuck on stand out very easily on lower res screens like the ipods. Pixels stuck off are better and pixel stuck to a more muted color are better, but on small screens you usually can still tell. and once you know where they are your mind goes to them.
The resolution or size of the screen has nothing to do with how easy they are to notice. It's the density. For instance, finding a dead pixel on a 3G iPod nano would be much more difficult than finding one on a 160x160 screen of the same physical dimensions.

And for your second part there, that's why I always suggest that people just not even look for them. If you don't know that you have one, then you're not likely to be bothered by it.

I do not see why the iPod Touch should have so many occurances of dead pixels though...unless apple is cheaping out with a cheap manufacture for the displays.
When you produce displays is such large numbers, quality will begin to slip. This applies in matters like this as the LCD is not the main cost factor of the device, and the manufacturer will try to keep the costs as low as possible. I mean, if you're manufacturing TVs, the main focus is the screen. So of course you'll be seeking quality, often at a higher cost.

[ilovebananas]

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1721?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_GB

This link took me less than a minute to find. It clearly states that Apple (and everybody else) can't guarantee that you won't have a dead pixel.
It is applicable to all apple products (including ipod,iphones)
It is vague but does highlight the fact that it is possible. It will be evaluated on a case by case basis but one pixel will very rarely be accepted as reason for exchange.

Under a minute via google (apple pixel defect). This is what Apple can produce upon demand and is also available in my local apple store as a leaflet at the Genius Bar.
Not hard to find. Average Jo can find it no problem.

[Edge100]

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1721?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_GB

This link took me less than a minute to find. It clearly states that Apple (and everybody else) can't guarantee that you won't have a dead pixel.
It is applicable to all apple products (including ipod,iphones)
It is vague but does highlight the fact that it is possible. It will be evaluated on a case by case basis but one pixel will very rarely be accepted as reason for exchange.

Under a minute via google (apple pixel defect). This is what Apple can produce upon demand and is also available in my local apple store as a leaflet at the Genius Bar.
Not hard to find. Average Jo can find it no problem.

It doesn't matter; the onus is not on me to find this information.

Apple posts detailed specs for most of the components of their computers/devices. They post operating specs like max and min temperatures, max altitudes, etc; esoteric things that most people will never look at, but which is READILY available (and by that I mean right there in front of your eyes when you look at apple.com/macbook/specs.html, for instance.

Why does Apple post things like minimum temperature specs for the very few people who would consider using their Macbooks at <-13F, but not the ISO specs for their screens, which affect every single Macbook user? Moreover, they post the specs for the cinema displays, but not for any other product. Odd, unless they know that people buying displays will tend to be more litigious about this issue, and therefore Apple is simply covering their asses for the displays, but could care less for the other products.

The end user does not have an infinite requirement to dig for information that the company is willfully withholding. They could post the specs if they wanted to, but they dont because MOST people wont make a fuss, and those that do will be put off by the ISO specs that Apple quotes. Only a very few people know their rights as a consumer, and one of these rights is not being held accountable for details of purchase that they were not aware of or should reasonably been aware of. And the fact that Apple posts the specs for the displays but not for other devices suggests that it is not impossible for them to give the consumer this info. THEY choose not to, so I shouldn't have to dig for that info.

Sorry, but no matter what the ISO standard says, unless Apple makes that information widely available to its customers BEFORE purchase, I'm not going to be held accountable for following the spec.

[boone51]

Akonradi, are you joking on here? It really seems like you're telling people that stuck pixels ona 3.5 inch screen are just something people should accept. I think it's been stated on this thread several times already...if it's a screen 30+ inches, dead pixels are STILL not good, but you can live with them... that logic DOES NOT apply to a screen smaller than 4 inches, though. Every single one of those pixels is critical to the experience...
I have just opened my third touch. I have to keep going back becuase I get the wrong size...first was 8 (one dead pixel...unacceptable)...then I got the 16 (not one dead pixel anywerhe to be seen)...and now I've jsut upgraded it to the 32...Now , not only do I have dead pixels, but I can tell you without a doubt that the screen is washed out in comparison tothe 8 and 16gb models. You can tell me it's not or that I shouldnt complain about it, but what you think about my product means exactly squat to me, the consumer who just shelled out almost 600 bucks for an mp3 player. This little guy should be perfect. There's no two way about it. And if you think that by me, the consumer, demanding perfection for an expensive high end electronic item is HURTING the industry, you should really evealuate just how far up Steve's Job's a$$ your head is.

[aethelbert]

Akonradi, are you joking on here? It really seems like you're telling people that stuck pixels ona 3.5 inch screen are just something people should accept. I think it's been stated on this thread several times already...if it's a screen 30+ inches, dead pixels are STILL not good, but you can live with them... that logic DOES NOT apply to a screen smaller than 4 inches, though. Every single one of those pixels is critical to the experience...
I have just opened my third touch. I have to keep going back becuase I get the wrong size...first was 8 (one dead pixel...unacceptable)...then I got the 16 (not one dead pixel anywerhe to be seen)...and now I've jsut upgraded it to the 32...Now , not only do I have dead pixels, but I can tell you without a doubt that the screen is washed out in comparison tothe 8 and 16gb models. You can tell me it's not or that I shouldnt complain about it, but what you think about my product means exactly squat to me, the consumer who just shelled out almost 600 bucks for an mp3 player. This little guy should be perfect. There's no two way about it. And if you think that by me, the consumer, demanding perfection for an expensive high end electronic item is HURTING the industry, you should really evealuate just how far up Steve's Job's a$$ your head is.
This has nothing to do with Apple or any other company for that matter. It doesn't matter how small the screen is, there will always be some ratio of dead:good pixels. If my screen is ten kilometers diagonal and there's one stuck pixel, that means that for every so many pixels something will show up imperfect. So if one makes enough 3.5" screens, the ratio should be the same. If you actually want to hunt down dead pixels and whatnot, be my guest, but it's just a flat out waste of time. My logic applies to a screen of ANY size, like it or not.

[bbbensen]

After reading all of the posts, I think you should just sell the darn thing on Ebay and buy a different brand of MP3 player with all the whining you are doing.


There is no reason why you should go after just Apple. Sure, they arent perfect, but you can get dead pixels no matter the brand. Hardly any company will take something back just for one little pixel.


My iPod Touch has a dead pixel. I dont like it. But I deal with it. I barley notice it unless I look for it.

Like so, so many people have said, stop your complaining, and sell it if your that hurt.
:)

[boone51]

Yeah, I'm not sure. Somteimes I read back over my posts and wonder who wrote them. I wasn't trying to freak the hell out. I don't think there should be dead pixels ona 3.5 inch screen. Luckily, my local Best Buy totally agrees with me. I have a 32Gig now with no dead pixels and I love it.

Let me just say, Apple is a great company and they've consistenly helped me out when I've asked for it. I get the stuck pixel per square inch theory, I just don't think it should apply to a 3.5 inch screen. If you do, and you have one, and you're cool with it, by all means, tell people to suck it up. I couldn't live with that, so I returned it. Love what I have now. I'm sure that means next week they'll drop the price by 100 bucks and add gps, camera, and a retinal scanner, but hey, that's life with electronics.

Anyway, not trying to bash. I don't mean to sound like I was attacking anyone, especially by calling them out by name. Please excuse me...

[ageha]

It doesn't matter; the onus is not on me to find this information.

Apple posts detailed specs for most of the components of their computers/devices. They post operating specs like max and min temperatures, max altitudes, etc; esoteric things that most people will never look at, but which is READILY available (and by that I mean right there in front of your eyes when you look at apple.com/macbook/specs.html, for instance.

Why does Apple post things like minimum temperature specs for the very few people who would consider using their Macbooks at <-13F, but not the ISO specs for their screens, which affect every single Macbook user? Moreover, they post the specs for the cinema displays, but not for any other product. Odd, unless they know that people buying displays will tend to be more litigious about this issue, and therefore Apple is simply covering their asses for the displays, but could care less for the other products.

The end user does not have an infinite requirement to dig for information that the company is willfully withholding. They could post the specs if they wanted to, but they dont because MOST people wont make a fuss, and those that do will be put off by the ISO specs that Apple quotes. Only a very few people know their rights as a consumer, and one of these rights is not being held accountable for details of purchase that they were not aware of or should reasonably been aware of. And the fact that Apple posts the specs for the displays but not for other devices suggests that it is not impossible for them to give the consumer this info. THEY choose not to, so I shouldn't have to dig for that info.

Sorry, but no matter what the ISO standard says, unless Apple makes that information widely available to its customers BEFORE purchase, I'm not going to be held accountable for following the spec.

They cannot post any specs because they're shipping the products with different displays from numerous manufacturers.