Networked Apps - The Future of Software?

[MacRumors]

Wired covers (http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,60999,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_3) comments from Tim O'Reilly at the recent Mac OS X Conference (http://www.macdevcenter.com/mac/osx2003/) in Santa Clara, CA.

O'Reilly believes that Apple "is leading the charge in a software revolution that soon will see most applications reaching beyond the box they are running on and connecting to other computers or devices."

The iTunes Music Store is the prime example of this initiative, while "unconnected" applications such as the word processor or spreadsheet are becoming dated.

O'Reilly was critical that the implementation of this concept is currently incomplete -- with users being unable (yet) to share Photos or purchase Stock photos via the iPhoto application.

[wendel]

prediction. In a few days MOSR will claim that they have seen beta versions of iPhoto 3 allowing rendezvous sharing of photo collections, and even early betas of purchasing photos online.

you heard it here first.

[nycmacartist]

Originally posted by wendel
prediction. In a few days MOSR will claim that they have seen beta versions of iPhoto 3 allowing rendezvous sharing of photo collections, and even early betas of purchasing photos online.

you heard it hear first.

Or they'll update next week, with what's being discussed this week, reworded of course. Then ask for donations.

[Foxer]

Various developers/publishers have been predicting this for years, at least since 1996 - notably Microsoft. I remember that all this was supposed to be a major part of (what eventually became) Windows 98.


It may happen, but it is hardly revolutionary.

[Liquidity X]

I wanna see a imovie movie store, we got piexlet, lets get downloadable movies thar re in dvd-r formate, or pixelet movie.

[balconycollapse]

Sadly microsoft swallowed up getty images one of the biggest stock photo sources around so apple would have some stiff competition. Everyday people have no use for stock photos unless they are 1024x768 and "purty". What this person seems to be asking for in their editorial is that there be an application for every possible thing you could want to purchase. Pretty soon Pizza Hut will have the iPizza win & mac app where you visually build a pizza and then order it online. Just kidding. I think the best example of this remote application would be desktop cray, man did that make my computer scorch! ^_^

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by Liquidity X
I wanna see a imovie movie store, we got piexlet, lets get downloadable movies thar re in dvd-r formate, or pixelet movie.

QuickTime's "what's on" is sort of doing that.
I expect more "media" live/streaming apps, or games. Fun online stuff!
Not the office applications. Think of security reasons.

[johnnowak]

Originally posted by Macrumors

The iTunes Music Store is the prime example of this initiative, leaving "unconnected" applications such as the word processor or spreadsheet becoming dated.


Can I ask why the hell I'd want a "connected" word processor or spreadsheet? What fool wrote this?

[dstorey]

Originally posted by johnnowak
Can I ask why the hell I'd want a "connected" word processor or spreadsheet? What fool wrote this?

the 'fool' that wrote that is Tim O'Reilly, the guy the founed and owns the most respected publishers of programming and computer technology books I can think of, and predicter of many future technologies through working at grass roots (alpha geek) level...

[reflex]

Originally posted by johnnowak
Can I ask why the hell I'd want a "connected" word processor or spreadsheet? What fool wrote this?

Probably the same fool(s) that wrote it 5 years ago.

[AmigoMac]

Originally posted by johnnowak
Can I ask why the hell I'd want a "connected" word processor or spreadsheet? What fool wrote this?

You are preparing the monthly report for the company on the 23th to be presented on the 31st, but you have vacations from the 25th and want some help from your friends at work and everyone will do a single task in different places or even cities... connected apps will work fine... big companies need real rendevouz (whatever) working there. they wnat to go now for the companies as they did for education...

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by johnnowak
Can I ask why the hell I'd want a "connected" word processor or spreadsheet? What fool wrote this?

I could definitely use this. That way I would not have to use Microsoft's Sharepoint portal.

I often collaborate on documents with people in my group at work. We will either work on different sections of the same document, or more often, we review, make suggestions, proofread, each others work. Now we usually mail a document around. Then you need to worry about versioning. What we really need to be able to do is work on the same document with some kind of versioning, change tracking. Most of this is available in Word now, but it does not allow simultaneous editing by multiple users of the same file.

Spreadsheets are the same. We work up cost models of projects and need to share the data/update/make changes.

[timdorr]

Image Capture already provides this feature:

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20031028064213303


I'm surpised it's not more advertised...

[nycmacartist]

MS would love this. Instead of owning office, you subscribe to the iOffice website for $10 a month. Can you imagine working on a document with advertisements springing up all the time?

[Nermal]

Originally posted by balconycollapse
Pretty soon Pizza Hut will have the iPizza win & mac app where you visually build a pizza and then order it online. Just kidding.

You might just be kidding, but they're actually doing this. Their current online ordering system says that they currently won't allow you to build your own pizza, but it looks like this option will be coming soon.

Of course, it's a web page, rather than a true app.

[beefcake]

Skynet

/flees to Mexico

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by beefcake
Skynet

/flees to Mexico

eh.. Terminator?

[Le Big Mac]

Originally posted by Nermal
Their current online ordering system says that they currently won't allow you to build your own pizza, but it looks like this option will be coming soon.


EXciting. I can choose the ingredients and get a preview of what it looks like, click submit, and then a sheet pops out at the Hut, that says, in print: Lg, pep, saus, onion, anch. THat's technology. the phone is just so passe.

As for collaborating on documents/spreadsheets, isn't that already done? I have a shared drive at work and anyone can pick up the doc. Two folks can't work on it at a time, but that's obvious.

[Janger]

Apps that reach beyond your own machine. Sounds like "back to the mainframe" to me.

[arn]

Some interesting thoughts... as people said, this has been something that people have been saying for years - every since the Internet really took off... but I think it was kinda under the radar that iTunes represents this concept.

In reality... the web browser is the concept... connected to a network of sites.

For while there was a move away from proprietary clients... and standardization -- such as Java.

And yes, the iTunes store could have been done entirely in a browser interface -- like BuyMusic. But I think Apple brings some key advantages in creating an client-native actual application for it. And this advantage could be maximized in other applications too.

arn

[Iconocat]

Originally posted by Le Big Mac
EXciting. I can choose the ingredients and get a preview of what it looks like, click submit, and then a sheet pops out at the Hut, that says, in print: Lg, pep, saus, onion, anch. THat's technology. the phone is just so passe.

As for collaborating on documents/spreadsheets, isn't that already done? I have a shared drive at work and anyone can pick up the doc. Two folks can't work on it at a time, but that's obvious.

I know it's not a seperate app or as "visual" as what you are thinking of, but I live in the DC area too and I order Pizza Hut online ALL the time! I'm pretty familiar to what the pizzas I get look like, so I don't really need the visual. It's really cool "building" your pizza though and they often have all sorts of specials. I never have to deal w/ them via phone unless there is a problem, which I don't think there ever has been.

[merges]

Originally posted by wendel
prediction. In a few days MOSR will claim that they have seen beta versions of iPhoto 3 allowing rendezvous sharing of photo collections, and even early betas of purchasing photos online.

you heard it here first.

they'd be on to something...

;-)

[merges]

Originally posted by johnnowak
Can I ask why the hell I'd want a "connected" word processor or spreadsheet? What fool wrote this?

How about, you're working on a screenplay with a friend; both of you want to be able to revise it individually but be aware of each others' changes.

Check out Hydra. Or whatever it's called now... this kind of software is actually very useful in many contexts.

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by Janger
Apps that reach beyond your own machine. Sounds like "back to the mainframe" to me.

This actually IS the point. Have centralized resources from apps to data to surge compute resources and every"node"or"user"whether on a dual 2 ghz desktop or a cell phone would have platform specifica nd user specific access methods.

As the internet becomes morewireless, higher bandwidth amd more everywhere accessable, this will be increasingly significant.

I feel what we will see is critical "local kernals" downloaded or saved for some local processing aswell.

Rocketman

[sethypoo]

I just wonder when someone is going to finally develop a virus for Mac OS X. All this networking stuff could, possibly, result in a lot of headaches for a lot of Mac users.

Just a thought.....

[jouster]

Originally posted by Janger
Apps that reach beyond your own machine. Sounds like "back to the mainframe" to me.

Well, the Internet is just such a 'beyond your own machine' app, and I don't hear anyone complaining that it turns their computer into a mainframe.

The other difference is that in the sixties you had no option but to use dumb terminals. But now you would still have the option to work locally if you wanted. I'm sure you would be able to disable the networking if desired.

[MorganX]

Originally posted by johnnowak
Can I ask why the hell I'd want a "connected" word processor or spreadsheet? What fool wrote this?

Whoever wrote it is confused about the difference between a Network App and a Network enabled app.

When you order online photos, upload your image file, and manipulate or enhance it using the application residing on the remote server, that's a network app. Citrix, et. al. that's a network app. Online dictionarys are network apps. Bestbuy.com, is not. iTMS is not. IMO.

"Connected" word processor or spreadsheet, yeah those are useful for collaboration purposes. And it's available already. But that's not a network app. The portal software that controls the collaboration, that's a network app. If remote users can modify the documents through the portal server without having a local copy of the spreadsheet or word processor, then they become network apps and not just "connected."

[crenz]

Originally posted by arn
For while there was a move away from proprietary clients... and standardization -- such as Java.

Unfortunately, companies are now moving back to proprietary clients, e.g. iTunes. Microsoft calls this whole stuff "integration" and tries to get you into using pure-Microsoft systems only. A good example from the past would be Exchange servers, which only exhibit their full functionality when you use Microsoft clients. Apple is going a similar route, but I hope they will pursue more open protocols.

[Sabenth]

if i rember corectly M$ DID DO A Subsctiption system for office or at least tried it out here in Australia dont know how well it went because well I bought my copy in hard format were as they tend to want you to download it.

take it that it floped and they are re thinking there global efforts..

Hmm online word processor hmm arnt we using one now as such to write these posts ..

Networked Apps work in education so why not for the corp world..

[tcmcam]

Well, one thing is obvious... iPhoto is seriously lagging the other iLife apps. It's in need of some major re-engineering. If it struggles with library sizes now, imagine how it will suffer as people have:
- bigger files (with 5 Megapixel cameras)
- Networked libraries (shared amongst macs)
- Shared "Family" libraries (with the relatives).

Hopefully iPhoto 3.0 will be something to be proud of. Unfortunately, Adobe Photoshop Album (Windows only) blows it away right now.

[GregA]

Originally posted by crenz
Unfortunately, companies are now moving back to proprietary clients, e.g. iTunes. Microsoft calls this whole stuff "integration" and tries to get you into using pure-Microsoft systems only. A good example from the past would be Exchange servers, which only exhibit their full functionality when you use Microsoft clients. Apple is going a similar route, but I hope they will pursue more open protocols. And yet, network applications need to evolve. There are limits to what you can do within the web "API" (as such), and java too. They don't offer the richness of functions available to a native API.

I mean, I'm sure iChat could be written as a web client (ICQ already has one), but it would not work as well as iChat does. Someone mentioned that this reply is written using an online word-processor - TRUE, but not as good as even the simplest native single-platform word processor.

I really don't know enough about Java so maybe this is a stupid question. Is there a high level, open source API available cross platforms? Could it expand to offer more? If an internet-app could be almost identical to a single-platform app why would you write a native app?

[asphalt-proof]

Originally posted by tcmcam
Well, one thing is obvious... iPhoto is seriously lagging the other iLife apps. It's in need of some major re-engineering. If it struggles with library sizes now, imagine how it will suffer as people have:
- bigger files (with 5 Megapixel cameras)
- Networked libraries (shared amongst macs)
- Shared "Family" libraries (with the relatives).

Hopefully iPhoto 3.0 will be something to be proud of. Unfortunately, Adobe Photoshop Album (Windows only) blows it away right now.

Have to agree with you on this point. I understand that Adobe has no intention of making a Photo Album for the Mac. I looked at the Store today (Southpoint in Raleigh) and wasn't able to find a comparable program. My father has Photo Album and it is a VERY nice piece of programming. Nice search tools, time line stuff... very nice. Adobe: Please port it to Mac:(

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Liquidity X
I wanna see a imovie movie store, we got piexlet, lets get downloadable movies thar re in dvd-r formate, or pixelet movie.

For the last time. Pixlet is a lossless compression format and will never provide as much compression as MPEG2 or MPEG4. It is valuable in video production, one of Apple's core markets, but to the consumer, it's not news.

[GregA]

From the Wired article
O'Reilly suggested that networking technologies like Rendezvous or iChat buddy lists should be built into all of Apple's software. If instant messaging were added to the Address Book function included with OS X, the result would be something like Friendster, the wildly popular dating/socializing network, O'Reilly said.

"The reason I'm excited about Apple is I think they are a real leader in this area, but they are not thinking hard enough how to complete the picture," he chided.Yes, Apple has the parts but they just haven't put them together. Apple has underlying technology to find local and listed users, connect to other users, do security/authentication, centrally store data, stream media, as well as databases, presentation and office programs.

If they were pulled together, a user could find 3 or 4 users they wish to work with in the Address book, and from there do one of many things - such as open a chat (multiuser - text, audio, or video), invite to a meeting, transmit Keynote presentations, share a file area (via iDisk or direct?), allow word documents for collaborating, or invite remote access to Filemaker databases.

That would involve Rendezvous, iChat, iDisk, iCal, Appleworks, Keynote, file sharing, Filemaker, and iSync. Some of that is on Windows also, but not enough - I think a collaborative answer needs to be cross platform. All up an interesting article!

Originally posted by MorganX
Whoever wrote it is confused about the difference between a Network App and a Network enabled app. <snip>It sounds like you are talking about Client-Server ("Network App") vs Peer-to-Peer ("Network Enabled app"). While O'Reilley talks about all apps being network aware - the examples in the article imply a client-to-"big server" type of functionality such as purchasing - which confuses the issue. I found O'Reilly's site and though he talks in client-server ways, he includes shared documents in that, as one machine must be 'serving' the document.
http://tim.oreilly.com/p2p/netaware.csp

[pjtro2]

Originally posted by sethypoo
I just wonder when someone is going to finally develop a virus for Mac OS X.

It reminds me of Qantas's perfect flight record.. As time goes by, statistically a greater chance of something bad happening. But then again, Steve aint nearly one of the worlds richest men. -- Bit off topic, but does anyone have any views on the matter now iTunes is available for PC? - I daresay there will be a host of people writing hacks for it right now...

[Sabenth]

quantas ha ha ha profit ....

Sorry had to have a small laugh there money grabing crap flights...

as for the hacks hmm why would some one want to hack it on windows..

[polyesterlester]

What I'd like to see instead of just plain ol' stock photos (i.e. getty), is a library of user-submitted photos (i.e. istockphoto.com) that can be bought for credits. Upload a good photo and you can get a few free credits. Or you can buy credits for a buck each. That would be good for designers who need some good photos, but don't have the money.

[danielfe]

maybe this is not exactley what he meant.

i read an article, (i think in MIT's magazine of innovative technology) about apps where the lines between them are blurred. instead of apps like iTunes which works with itself across a network, these apps were not standalone but added functonality to each other.

for example, maybe you are using a photoeditor but you can use all the text editing ability of MS word for any text in your picture.

the ability of iMovie to bring in itunes songs is a better example than itunes by itself. in a sense, this article suggested that apps are not longer apps but essentially plug-ins that add functionality to your PC, but can be used anywhere.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by pjtro2
But then again, Steve aint nearly one of the worlds richest men.

At $2 billion, he's in the top 500. 500 out of 6 billion is pretty good, probably better than you ;)

[prismfinder]

I see quite a bit of potential for the networked spreadsheet app. Companies would be able to, say, manage software license keys for the entire network by securely pulling down data directly from the vendor. Video workgroups could share timecode data as could music producers. Managing business partnerships remotely would be much easier than it is now. Hell, an anal consumer could even keep a live history of their online pizza orders, and, with a "smart pizza playlist" have one-click access to their favorite pies. ;)

[aaroncd]

Originally posted by danielfe
maybe this is not exactley what he meant.

i read an article, (i think in MIT's magazine of innovative technology) about apps where the lines between them are blurred. instead of apps like iTunes which works with itself across a network, these apps were not standalone but added functonality to each other.

for example, maybe you are using a photoeditor but you can use all the text editing ability of MS word for any text in your picture.

the ability of iMovie to bring in itunes songs is a better example than itunes by itself. in a sense, this article suggested that apps are not longer apps but essentially plug-ins that add functionality to your PC, but can be used anywhere.


isnt that what OpenDoc was kinda supposed to be? (minus the networking side)

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by aaroncd
isnt that what OpenDoc was kinda supposed to be? (minus the networking side)

Yup!

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
At $2 billion, he's in the top 500. 500 out of 6 billion is pretty good, probably better than you ;)

Yeah, but what about all the folks who got their riches in "less" than legal ways?
;)
I'd try the whole networked applications thing, but I'm afraid of 1) virus's and 2) microsoft monopolizing/charging for its use.

[neilt]

Originally posted by merges
How about, you're working on a screenplay with a friend; both of you want to be able to revise it individually but be aware of each others' changes.

Check out Hydra. Or whatever it's called now... this kind of software is actually very useful in many contexts.

It's called Subethaedit now. It is available at http://www.codingmonkeys.de

It is a very cool app. It only does text, but use it on a few computers at the same time or on a network using rendexvous and you can see how amazing something like this could be.
If you haven't seen it in action, it is well worth it....and it's free...you can't beat that.

neilt

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by aaroncd
isnt that what OpenDoc was kinda supposed to be? (minus the networking side)

Since Opendoc is an Apple asset and perhaps an iLife equivelent for the Xserve world, maybe we will see it reinvigorated?

Rocketman

[GregA]

Originally posted by Rocketman
Since Opendoc is an Apple asset and perhaps an iLife equivelent for the Xserve world, maybe we will see it reinvigorated?OpenDoc was more about the fact that when we are writing a document - we don't care what application we are using. Text, graphics, spreadsheets all together in one document (the document controlled by OpenDoc). I think it was and is a great idea - Start from the blank document and put in what you want.

The network apps is more about working with other people in some way - talking together, sharing whiteboards, collaborative documents, sharing songs... whatever.
... at some level it may look like one application to the end user (start from iChat and have 10 different options for interacting with the person on the other end)... but it's different to OpenDoc.