Why can't you return CTO iMac?

[Kittychan]

Please answer me because I just do not understand this policy...

If I got an iMac with defects (My iMac has speakers defect out of box) the sound is switching from stereo to mono) but it is CTO iMac all I can do is getting a part to replace, but I cannot ask for a whole new iMac or refund...

Has anyone returned their CTO iMac with full refund?

Cheers

[JayLenochiniMac]

Too costly from a business perspective, and they'd pass the cost to the customers. Do you really want to pay more than what you're already paying?

I've heard of people getting a whole new iMac if their CTO iMac came DOA though.

[tdhurst]

Defective CTO are a different story. You can always get them replaced, but only if you get a few lemons might they refund.

The policy makes sense, if Apple made a CTO iMac for someone and they returned it just because they changed their mind, Apple would have to sell it as a refurb at a much lower cost. They lose a lot more money (because of the extra time it takes to configure, etc.) on CTO refurbs than they would on standard refurbs.

[Ugg]

Do you mean BTO? Build to Order?

Anyway, Apple's policy is pretty standard in this regard. They seem to do a pretty good job replacing faulty parts.

[bluedoggiant]

How about if you got software preinstalled on it? i got iwork 08 preinstalled on mine, its not considered a cto right?

[JayLenochiniMac]

CTO = BTO, same thing.

[bluedoggiant]

CTO = BTO, same thing.

wrong.

bto - built to order

cto - configure to order.

[JayLenochiniMac]

wrong.

bto - built to order

cto - configure to order.

And how are they different?

[bluedoggiant]

And how are they different?

built to order is already built, and ready for order.

configure to order is when you configure it.

[theberg88]

In my experience, it's pretty amazing what Apple will do when you ask nicely.

I just purchased my new MacBook Pro and it was finally delivered (after a delay) the day before the new revision was announced. Their policy clearly stated that there are no returns on BTO but when I called to ask them about covering the price protection they said they could get an "management override" and I could ship my entire machine back and get the new revision if I wanted to.

As far as replacing an entire machine because of a small/simple defective part, I can understand them just wanting to repair your current machine. But again, it's amazing how much they'll do when we ask nicely instead of going "postal consumer" on them.

My 2¢.

[vansouza]

Please answer me because I just do not understand this policy...

If I got an iMac with defects (My iMac has speakers defect out of box) the sound is switching from stereo to mono) but it is CTO iMac all I can do is getting a part to replace, but I cannot ask for a whole new iMac or refund...

Has anyone returned their CTO iMac with full refund?

Cheers

Please, please, please ... call Apple Support.

[mcarnes]

I've always heard it referred to as BTO. Build to order. Isn't that what Apple calls it?

[airjuggernaut]

I've always heard it referred to as BTO. Build to order. Isn't that what Apple calls it?
Yup, BTO and CTO are the same thing.
Apple refers to it as BTO.

[bluedoggiant]

I've always heard it referred to as BTO. Build to order. Isn't that what Apple calls it?

Well guys, if I'm wrong, blame the apple store guy, thats what he told me.

[deathshrub]

When Apple replaced my defective Mac Pro they offered me a refund. I said I didn't want it; just a machine that functioned as intended.

[JayLenochiniMac]

Well guys, if I'm wrong, blame the apple store guy, thats what he told me.

Apple store people don't really know better than the rest of us, and may know less.

[bluedoggiant]

And that can't mean something good?

You could have said "there a young obama in the works" or whatever. but i mean, a local guy here, that is actually a huge contributor to the forums, thats just harsh.

[Leon Kowalski]

If I got an iMac with defects (My iMac has speakers defect out of box)
the sound is switching from stereo to mono)

If it's defective out of the box (Dead On Arrival) you have a right to
demand a new replacement unit -- with shipping and return shipping
at Apple's expense. Read the "DOA" provisions of the sales policy.

http://www.apple.com/legal/sales_policies/

DO NOT let them attempt a repair. Once they (try to) fix it, you're SOL.

LK

[VoodooDaddy]

wrong.

bto - built to order

cto - configure to order.

built to order is already built, and ready for order.

configure to order is when you configure it.


I fail to see any difference in BTO and CTO. Spin it however you want, but they are the same.

Explain how built to order already built before you order?

[bluedoggiant]

I fail to see any difference in BTO and CTO. Spin it however you want, but they are the same.

Explain how built to order already built before you order?

There:

Well guys, if I'm wrong, blame the apple store guy, thats what he told me.

[portent]

Technically speaking, there are BTO, CTO, and Prebuilt.

Prebuilt - The system is already built and boxed. You put in an order, and they put the box on the truck. No changes are allowed. This would be what you get when you buy a stock system from Amazon.

CTO - A basic system is already built and waiting. You put in an order, and they add or replace components until the system matches your configuration, then they box it up and put it on the truck. Most custom Apple online orders are fulfilled this way.

BTO - They have only parts, no complete system.. You put in an order, and they put the parts together to suit your configuration. Some Dell desktops are built this way (they used to all be built this way.)

[bluedoggiant]

Technically speaking, there are BTO, CTO, and Prebuilt.

Prebuilt - The system is already built and boxed. You put in an order, and they put the box on the truck. No changes are allowed. This would be what you get when you buy a stock system from Amazon.

CTO - A basic system is already built and waiting. You put in an order, and they add or replace components until the system matches your configuration, then they box it up and put it on the truck. Most custom Apple online orders are fulfilled this way.

BTO - They have only parts, no complete system.. You put in an order, and they put the parts together to suit your configuration. Some Dell desktops are built this way (they used to all be built this way.)

"YES!!" - Dane Cook

Can I stop being harassed now?

[VoodooDaddy]

Can I stop being harassed now?

I made a comment your direction a week or so ago about making some wise ass answers to people. Thats why you get harrassed. Maybe its your age, you said you were 14.

BTW, you didnt answer my question at all. I asked to explain how CTO and BTO were different, because earlier you said definitively they were. But your answer to me is "someone told me that."

Its not a big deal, but please dont act like such a know-it-all.

[bluedoggiant]

I made a comment your direction a week or so ago about making some wise ass answers to people. Thats why you get harrassed. Maybe its your age, you said you were 14.

BTW, you didnt answer my question at all. I asked to explain how CTO and BTO were different, because earlier you said definitively they were. But your answer to me is "someone told me that."

Its not a big deal, but please dont act like such a know-it-all.

how am acting like such a know it all when i admit that i didn't know? and is there something wrong with 14 year olds on these forums? and me, wise ass?

Wow.

[VoodooDaddy]

CTO = BTO, same thing.

wrong.

bto - built to order

cto - configure to order.

how am acting like such a know it all....

There you go.

By a number of replies Ive seen you make to ppl, you seem very condescending.

[bluedoggiant]

There you go.

By a number of replies Ive seen you make to ppl, you seem very condescending.

It's over, i admited it already, gosh, this isn't life or death, I think you are the immature one in this fight.

how am acting like such a know it all when i admit that i didn't know? and is there something wrong with 14 year olds on these forums? and me, wise ass?

Wow.

[Leon Kowalski]

By a number of replies Ive seen you make to ppl, you seem very condescending.

Condescending can be a bit irritating, but it's tolerable...

...except when combined with WRONG!

LK

[Kittychan]

Back to the topic... Ok first of all as some said because only the speakers that are defect that is why they will order a new part and change them, however once my iMac is fixed and the problem persists, is it possible to get a refund then ???

Some said I cannot :confused:

[Leon Kowalski]

however once my iMac is fixed and the problem persists, is it possible to get a refund then ???

Suggest you READ the Apple Sales Policy (linked above) regarding DOA.

LK

[Kittychan]

Suggest you READ the Apple Sales Policy (linked above) regarding DOA.

LK

I have read, but the policies are wary in different countries. I check on apple New Zealand and they said no. Wonder why the US customer can return ...

[Leon Kowalski]

I have read, but the policies are wary in different countries.
I check on apple New Zealand and they said no.

Then I suggest you find Apple's written sales policy for NZ.

...a verbal opinion ain't worth the paper it's written on,

LK

[JayLenochiniMac]

If it's defective out of the box (Dead On Arrival) you have a right to
demand a new replacement unit -- with shipping and return shipping
at Apple's expense. Read the "DOA" provisions of the sales policy.


But is a defective speaker out of the box considered DOA (preventing basic operability)?

[JayLenochiniMac]

CTO - A basic system is already built and waiting. You put in an order, and they add or replace components until the system matches your configuration, then they box it up and put it on the truck. Most custom Apple online orders are fulfilled this way.

BTO - They have only parts, no complete system.. You put in an order, and they put the parts together to suit your configuration. Some Dell desktops are built this way (they used to all be built this way.)

Yet Apple chooses to use the term BTO rather than CTO, so these terms are interchangable.

[Leon Kowalski]

But is a defective speaker out of the box considered DOA (preventing basic operativity)?

When I pay a premium price for a (supposedly) premium product, I
demand to get what I paid for. If apple refused to replace MY brand
new DOA dud, I'd call my credit card company and instruct them to
withhold payment.

...Apple's not your friend, Apple's not your mother. They're just a vendor.

LK

[JayLenochiniMac]

When I pay a premium price for a (supposedly) premium product, I
demand to get what I paid for. If apple refused to replace MY brand
new DOA dud, I'd call my credit card company and instruct them to
withhold payment.

Hate to break it to you, but what the iMac goes for is hardly premium price. This is not some $50k piece of equipment we're talking about.

[Kittychan]

Ohhh well they won't replace a new iMac for me :( the store at Uni sucks big time.

So they are ordering the part to replace it, but if the problems persist I will just call Apple whatever number it is and demand something

[Nordichund]

I'd just thought I would tell you how it worked for me after I had ordered a 2,8ghz 24" Al iMac with 500 HDD from the Online Store. The first one had a duff screen so I sent it back, the second one had a duff screen and buzzed when I dimmed the screen, so Apple asked me to send it back. The third one also had a duff screen and buzzzed, however Apple's people here in Oslo said it was within Apple's specifications, but they admitted the backlight bleeding didn't look good. They offered me a FOURTH replacement or a FULL REFUND. After never wanting to touch the current Al iMac ever again I took the full refund. Apple also gave me about 2000 Norwegian kroner in compensation for my inconvenience that's almost 400 US dollars + I also have another 300 dollars in added software. Since then I've bought a Mac Pro and a 23" ACD, which I am very happy with.

When I contacted Apple Customer Relations on the phone, I was always polite, explaining the situation, I even sent the people I spoke to some pictures by email. I also wrote them a letter about my first and second iMacs. I always found the people at Apple I spoke with very professional, considerate and doing what I felt was the best they could to resolve the situation.

All this didn't happen over night, it took about 4 months from ordering my first iMac to finally getting an Apple product that worked for me, but at the end of the day I'm happy with the outcome, although I spent far more than I ever imagined and I am still a Apple customer due to their professional attitude.

So if you do order a BTO or whatever you call it and it is DOA, yes it is possible to get a full refund and you don't have to pay a restocking fee. However if you buy from an Apple retailer then perhaps returning a BTO machine is going to cost them money and they will give you any excuse so that they can recoup their costs.

I will admit though that if I'd bought a new iMac and there just a problem with the speakers, I would be happy for them to take it back so they could replace them. If other problems persisited then I might start asking for a new machine, but after talking to Apple Customer Relations first.

[Le Big Mac]

Technically speaking, there are BTO, CTO, and Prebuilt.




And for purposes of the refund policy, BTO and CTO are the same--no refunds (except when there are).

I don't understand the problem with the policy. Why would you want a refund? You decided to buy the computer. apple will fix, for free, the problem. So you'll get the computer you paid for. It's not like getting a "new" car that's been repainted with inferior paint. It's the same computer. Same parts. It was built in Korea (or wherever) by plugging parts together. so what if you unplug one of those parts and plug in a new version of the same part?

[Leon Kowalski]

I don't understand the problem with the policy. ... It's not like getting a "new" car
that's been repainted with inferior paint. It's the same computer. Same parts.

No, it's more like getting a new car with a duff transmission. You've already
paid for it (or continue to make payments) while it sits in their shop waiting
for the 'same parts' to be installed by someone who might know what they're
doing ...or NOT. Would you pay for a car in a factory-sealed carton without
road-testing it first?

If it's not 100% functional when you first turn it on, Apple should offer to
replace it immediately. If you'd rather wait while they (try to) fix it, that's
your call -- but as the sales policy is written, that would be a BIG mistake.

LK

[JayLenochiniMac]

No, it's more like getting a new car with a duff transmission. You've already
paid for it (or continue to make payments) while it sits in their shop waiting
for the 'same parts' to be installed by someone who might know what they're
doing ...or NOT. Would you pay for a car in a factory-sealed carton without
road-testing it first?

I guess the equivalent of that would be going to an Apple store and have them fire up a machine before you purchase it, but I don't see too many of us doing that. Otherwise, for those of us who choose to BTO a new car or purchase one without road-testing it first, no dealer will allow you to exchange it for a new one AFTER you purchase it and drive it off the lot and Apple is no different.

[MikeTheC]

Kittychan:

The thing with multinational companies (which is effectively what Apple has become since they opened up divisions in different countries) is that they're bound by different national laws; impacted by various international laws as well as treaties; and not every region necessarily has the same policies.

Give you an example, drawing from my experience working at Sony. If you bought a Sony computer in the U.S., we had a tendency to be a little bit more lenient with customers. We would overlook an out-of-warranty repair if it was just some token amount (say, one day, maybe even as much as one week). However, if you bought from Sony U.K., or Sony France, or Sony Europe, the attitude was like, "Hey, in the time it took to get to me on the phone, your warranty lapsed at 12:00 midnight, and it's now like 12:02. Yeah, you're payin' for it, baby." And they flat out just really didn't care. Not trying to say Apple is that harsh, mind you, but just to give you one example.

Now, when comes to both CTO and BTO vs "stock model", it's a pretty standard thing to be stricter with warranty policies, not accept returns so readily, etc. Sometimes, it can be really petty, too. I know a couple examples but won't quote them here as there's no point, it was a different situation, and it was in the U.S., not New Zealand.

Thing is, with custom systems, generally the mfg. will deal with dead units pretty quickly, and will deal with other issues on the basis of how disruptive it is to the purchaser. For them to say, "No, we won't replace it, but yes, we'll replace the defective components," that's a very standard practice, as has been pointed out up-thread. Generally with Apple America, if you take the unit in for repeated service (three times is the typical minimum, and is also an industry standard) they start looking at other options. If it's the exact same problem, they'll probably just replace the system because, at that point, it's cheaper to do. If it's multiple different kinds of problems, well, that's a different road entirely. Mind you, and again I'm talking about dealing with companies here in the U.S., if you can demonstrate a legitimate problematic history (actual component failures, not just cosmetic stuff or that you're just pissed), they'll also explore other options.

In my experience, repeated system failures usually equal a new replacement model, and repeated different subsystem failures equal a refurbished equivalent replacement model.

[Kittychan]

Got it back today and ok everything works fine. But the technician forgot to return me a power cord and my screen is just dirty from inside. So I called him up and he said he will clean it for me on tuesday FFS....

[Kittychan]

First of all, I have to say thank you for everyone who put thier effort in discussing the problem and I really appreciate it, Without your help I wouldn't have guts to fight for my right.

It has been exactly 1 month and 2 days since I complaint about my iMac. After sending my iMac for service, the iMac worked fine for one day and then Kernel panic with distortion noise. Sent it back for service 2nd time, the problem persists.

I couldn't take any of thier ................ so I called apple care, called them 3 times and then they said that I should bring back to the tecnician to look at it again, but I didn't.

Instead, I email the Apple New Zealand distributor and then all the sudden, they said just bring the iMac in and they will replace it for me (no question asked).

My iMac is CTO and my supplier said I cannot return or get refund because it is CTO, they are wrong .........

I just got my iMac back today but haven't got a chance to check everything just yet.

The funny thing is I am not being charged a cent but the place I bought my imac will have to pay for it :D

CTO iMac can be replaced and refund if you are not happy with it, it is not hard for them to just put 2.8Ghz, harddisk, and ram in since they are very easy to get access anyway.

:apple: for life