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View Full Version : Mhz Myth in a PC magazine


jihad the movie
Nov 1, 2003, 07:56 PM
I believe the magazine is called PC UPGRADE... it has an Athlon 64 bit machine on the front cover and mentioned something about 64 bit gaming. Anyways, it said something about how the 2.2 ghz Athlon spanks the 3.4 ghz Pentium four, and gets into clock cycles, pipelines, and what not. I thought this was great, because, we have been saying this all along as a macintosh community, and here a PC magazine goes on carrying our torch. Has anybody else seen this?

jefhatfield
Nov 8, 2003, 09:31 AM
not specifically that one

the dynamics of "fastness" goes really deep as i am finding out working on my phd in computer engineering

as a general rule, for now, the slower clock speed athlon is faster than a pentium 4, mhz for mhz/ghz for ghz

but both are faster than a mac...i hope apple can get some speed going but the PC world makes bigger leaps in technology in chip design and os design...windows 2000 to windows XP was a huge improvement while os x slogs along and becomes too bloated and recently, more buggy

panther sucks right now...avoid it at all costs

it's pretty sad, really

howard
Nov 8, 2003, 09:47 AM
you say panther sucks?? i've heard so many good things about it! what problems have you been having?

jefhatfield
Nov 8, 2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by howard
you say panther sucks?? i've heard so many good things about it! what problems have you been having?

i personally do not have panther

i am a former apple warranty tech (as i have stated a gazillion times...he he), phd computer student, and i have computer repair business for PCs and macs, and i keep in contact with many techs or the PC and mac side...panther is terrible with most of their client's printers and scanners...networking is a nightmare with the PC side and my wife's work cancelled huge order for panther...panther does not mesh well with the 64 bit environment and the dual G5...the only good thing about panther is that is has given me the most mac work i have ever seen and maybe i can go on a long expensive vacation...i used to rely on windows to make me the money, but now, i hate to say it, panther will give me more work

if i had the time, i would find all the problems around panther and write a troubleshooting book...with the window of time right now, that would be a best seller

wait for the next update...i am going to get jaguar for my dual G4

caveman_uk
Nov 8, 2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by jefhatfield

wait for the next update...i am going to get jaguar for my dual G4
Wow that is conservative! In the Linux world you'd be a 'Debian stable' kind of guy :D

I've got Panther and I've had no problems- then again I only network macs to macs and everything is stock. No upgrades other than RAM. I've had no problems though. Normally I'd wait for .1 or SP1 (depending on your OS choice) though....;)

jefhatfield
Nov 8, 2003, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by caveman_uk
Wow that is conservative! In the Linux world you'd be a 'Debian stable' kind of guy :D

I've got Panther and I've had no problems- then again I only network macs to macs and everything is stock. No upgrades other than RAM. I've had no problems though. Normally I'd wait for .1 or SP1 (depending on your OS choice) though....;)

i always hear, "get the .1 update and never buy a virgin product" and when i have gone against this advice, i would almost always get burned

i have heard too many times that people crash panther a lot...many have never crashed jaguar

perhaps apple rushed panther...i hope apple inc is not becoming the microsoft of old and putting profit way way before product reliability

krimson
Nov 25, 2003, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by caveman_uk
Normally I'd wait for .1 or SP1 (depending on your OS choice) though....;)

As an ex-net admin, I completely agree, I've almost never bought the GM release. Usually the first major update is the best time to go.. usually all the major kinks have been worked out.



:D

jxyama
Nov 25, 2003, 10:14 AM
jefhatfield -

given your considerable experience and network, it's a bit disheartening to hear of your less than stellar take on panther...

i upgraded my PB. so far, i haven't had too many problems but i hardly do anything too complicated. fus and expose being stable is far from certifying panther as bug free...

i also can't shake the feeling that panther was a bit of a rush job. jaguar was rock solid, but i'm a bit biased because it was at 10.2.3 by the time i got my PB...

etoiles
Nov 25, 2003, 10:19 AM
...so did 10.3.1 fix most of these problems ?
Personally, I am really glad I upgraded, connecting to my PC seems to work better, the finder is faster, I am using expose all the time etc. But then I don't really have external drives, network printers or any other 'fancy' stuff.

Catfish_Man
Nov 25, 2003, 10:28 AM
I have to say that 10.3 has kicked ass for me (XCode, on the other hand....).

kettle
Nov 25, 2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
panther sucks right now...avoid it at all costs

it's pretty sad, really

Which parts in particular need to be avoided?
Are the bits that "suck" features that didn't "suck" under Jaguar?
If we buy a new mac should we also buy Jaguar and downgrade to 10.2.8?
When you say "avoid it at all costs" is there a limit to how far you would go to avoid it, or is this just a general warning to those whose attention skills do not function unless things are dumbed down or super sensationalised?

ExoticFish
Nov 25, 2003, 11:27 AM
no one i know has anything bad to say about Panther. in my experience it is faster, easier to use (thank you Expose!), and networking has been a heck of a lot faster (until i started messing around with getting active directory working that is, now's it's slow)

just my $.02

1macker1
Nov 25, 2003, 11:32 AM
There seems to be plenty of problems with Panther, that's why i'm still running Jag. Check out this thread for Panther problems.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48838

jxyama
Nov 25, 2003, 11:34 AM
gents,

read what jefhatfield wrote at the beginning. he make a living fixing computers and OSes. while his warning to avoid panther "at all costs" may have been a bit strong, i believe he is in a far superior position than singular desktop users (i.e most of us) to comment on the general bugginess of panther.

"panther works fine for me, what's your problem?" is not a very meaningful nor substantial testament to panther's quality. only by taking a look and dealing with problems in many different hardware/use/config/software settings can the true quality of panther be evaluated. i think jef is in a better position to do so than many of us.

being easier to use or faster to respond say nothing about the robustness and underlying quality of panther.

etoiles
Nov 25, 2003, 10:53 PM
I am not questioning jefhatfield's knowledge and experience, but I am just very surprised at what he said, especially regarding the 'leaps in PC os design' vs.OS X.

I don't think win2K to XP was a huge step (at least not in the right direction), I actually don't know of anybody in the 3D industry for example who uses XP...most artists/studios stick to win2K because it is 'said' to be more stable and efficient (at least for 3D stuff). I am not a tech person but that is what every sys admin guy told me so far.

I know there have been a few major bugs in Panther, but I have not encountered any myself (again, I don't have an external hd and I don't run it on an extensive network). However, I run into windows bugs all the time. Hell, one of the last 'critical updates' for windows was corrupting our 3DSmax files at work...so they had to release a fix for the fix. I guess we just live in a world of pain. Apple is not perfect but I don't think they are falling behind at the moment.

OS X is getting faster with every release so I am not sure I understand the 'slogs along' comment. Compare 10.1 to 10.3 to see how far we have come. Hope you will enjoy 10.3.2 as much as I enjoyed 10.3...

Life is good !
:D

Rower_CPU
Nov 27, 2003, 03:23 AM
jef-
What's the extent of your hands-on experience with Panther?

I'm a tech, too, and I've seen no issues whatsoever on the handful of machines it's gone on. We're going to update our eMac lab and staff machines (approx. 40 machines) over winter break and I foresee no problems.

johnnyjibbs
Nov 27, 2003, 05:13 AM
And I thought this was a thread about the MHz myth...:p :D

Les Kern
Nov 27, 2003, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
And I thought this was a thread about the MHz myth...:p :D

I'm writing a book on combining chaos theory, fractals and group dynamics. I'm using Macrumors as a source!

mj_1903
Nov 27, 2003, 06:40 AM
Hmmm, don't know what the issue is. My personal home network of Mac's and PC's has had no issues. My compile farm of old Mac's also has had no issues.

I just finished an install of 20 iMac's and G5's into a school network based on Window 2K all centering around Active Directory, and again had no issues. In fact, it went better than I thought, which knowing my trust of technology these days is a big statement.

edesignuk
Nov 27, 2003, 07:14 AM
Things Not to Do
1) Off-topic posts in the non-Community discussion areas. Keep it free of off topic posts. Off-topic posts will be deleted/edited. If you keep doing it see #4.
Nice to see we're all being good and sticking to the rules :eek: :p

...anyway...

There does seem to have been many more posts about problems with Panther than I remember there being with Jaguar.
I have only had one problem with Panther, but it was IMO a very big problem. Samba stopped working! I use Samba all the time to access my Mac's drive from my PC's, and when I didn't work after installing Panther I was none to pleased. Eventually I got it working by over writing my smb.conf with another MR members own edited working version and all was fine. But this should not have been something that I had to fix!
But, other than that, I've had no problems at all....so far! :eek:

Nik_Doof
Nov 29, 2003, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by caveman_uk
Wow that is conservative! In the Linux world you'd be a 'Debian stable' kind of guy :D

And whats wrong with that? :)

*Nik slowly pushes his debian stable server back into the rack*

ryme4reson
Nov 29, 2003, 04:54 AM
I am not questioning jefhatfield's knowledge and experience, but I am just very surprised at what he said, especially regarding the 'leaps in PC os design' vs.OS X.


I would like to question your knowlege. Where are you going to school Mr. Hatfield? As a Phd candidate its interesting you would take out of your ass (sorry I hope your feelings dont get hurt). like that. Havent you learned anything? Making bold statements based on pure speculation is not a wise action to get used to.

i personally do not have panther

Well I would like to know what experience you have with Panther. First hand, not I heard that it....

Phillip
Nov 29, 2003, 06:40 AM
the mac is slower than the pc but not its not with the mhz myth... i have an 700mhz imac and i runs faster than an 700 mhz pc it is imo a 1.2 - 1.3ghz pc... but in photoshop my pc (amd 1800+) is faster (maybe because i have DDR ram and a better graphics card on it)...

another thing is i find the finder very slow compared to explorer in windows... i compared it to my pc (300 mhz) running xp and explorer ran faster than browsing in the finder... can someone explain why...

Char
Nov 29, 2003, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by Phillip
the mac is slower than the pc but not its not with the mhz myth... i have an 700mhz imac and i runs faster than an 700 mhz pc it is imo a 1.2 - 1.3ghz pc... but in photoshop my pc (amd 1800+) is faster (maybe because i have DDR ram and a better graphics card on it)...

another thing is i find the finder very slow compared to explorer in windows... i compared it to my pc (300 mhz) running xp and explorer ran faster than browsing in the finder... can someone explain why...

One thing to always remember.. is if the application isn't optimized for the CPU it will run slower then it can potentially. A good hand full of Mac Applications are built just for Mac, thats why they seems to be able to run at better speeds then a Wintel at the same clock speed. But then you get these apps that are cross platform that really are just horrible coding and cant do anything right. Thats why you can't really benchmark a Mac vs a PC. Can't find a app to do it right.

Bengt77
Dec 16, 2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Les Kern
I'm writing a book on combining chaos theory, fractals and group dynamics. I'm using Macrumors as a source!

Hehe... :D

That's really funny. You might be on to something, though. :rolleyes: