Industrial Platypus's Delicious Platy-Pie

[ZiggyPastorius]

Okay, so, I'm going to do some shameless plugging here on Macrumors, because I'm desperate to spread the word around :p

Last year, my friend Joe and I decided we'd buy Fruity Loops and between the two of us, spend some of our free time screwing around with Electronic music. Pretty soon, we began to write and discuss, and I soon realised what I wanted to do...

I've never believed very strongly in the traditional music-marketing format. I don't think music is something that a person should necessarily have to pay for, and I personally believe it should be free and available to everyone, some way or another. That is not to say I think we should control the music industry and force people to give their music away. The current format seems to serve well, however, you see more bands and artists like Trent Reznor, Radiohead, Saul Williams, et cetera, implementing new marketing techniques, even involving free music. My goal is to help this, no matter how little.

Now, before I get to the pimping, I might as well make it clear that this is an extracurricular thing that I do, and I don't purport the music as amazing, revolutionary, or anything like that. I've made this music simply and 100% for the purpose of giving it to people for their own enjoyment. It's all electronic; perhaps when I obtain some more equipment, I'll do more implementation of instruments and vocals. For now, it's all electronically made. Older songs were made in Fruity Loops, and newer songs were made in Logic Express.

The album is called Delicious Platy-Pie, and the project name is Industrial Platypus. You can listen to a few tracks, or find links to every track on our myspace page: www.myspace.com/industrialplatypus , or you can go to http://noradiodjd.net/IP , which is the Industrial Platypus extension of my podcast website which has details on how you can legally torrent the full album. I don't want to become famous, I don't want to make money, I just want to share music for free, and hope that someone enjoys it. If anyone can give us some support for this, it'd be greatly appreciated! :) Tell all your friends, and add us on MYSPACE!

<3

[ZiggyPastorius]

Mods: I tried to add this in editing, but it didn't work hosting off a separate domain, and there was no option. Feel free to move these pics into the previous post and delete this one.

Some of our unofficial artwork and band photos :p Hardee har har:

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107921&stc=1&d=1205554606

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107920&stc=1&d=1205554606

[ZiggyPastorius]

So then I'll take this as a point that no one cares about my electronic music or music statement :p

[faintember]

So then I'll take this as a point that no one cares about my electronic music or music statement :pPardon if this gets too critical; since I know you are wanting to study music I will try to give a bit more detailed, craft-oriented commentary.

Selppin Seiram- IMO, this song seems to be the most solid piece, and really works in a quiet-NIN way. I actually think this song would be 500% better if done acoustically: organ, piano, harpsichord (maybe distorted with mild reverb) and cello. I think what was originally your "guitar" part (:41) is what I hear as harpsichord, in case you were wondering. I do think the end, say 1:44-1:48 could be explored more throughly, as the texture of those few seconds is drastically different than what happened up until that point. The piano fragment after the 1:44-1:48 mark is quite nice in helping to wrap the song up.

Shards of Reality- The bass hits in the first 2 mins are a bit redundant. See Autechre's Gelk for an example of bass hits. Basically, the bass is stagnant, and just a doubling down the octave, or a higher pitched grace note leading into the bass hit would work wonders. The sequenced backdrop is ok, but the "moan" that happens occasionally might work better as some form of wood percussion; think of a single-stroke roll on a wood block that slows down as it decays. The traditional beat around 2 mins in really comes from no where, maybe a gradual fade into it or a more striking jump to the beat (insert silence/instrument change/volume change?).

Barebacked Leader of Trinoble- Some what reminds me of a cross between Rammstein and 80's pop. Maybe the 80's pop thought is just because of the waveform of the synth. This song would also work better with live performers, as the various rhythmic parts are, well, too sterile. Sterility can be an issue for all music of this ilk when it comes to rhythm/repetition and is thus my main issue with this song.

The Bravest Brevity- Listen to some minimalism if you don't already; Philip Glass, Steve Reich and John Adams are fairly accessible ways to get into the genre. If you want some more pop oriented people to listen to check out Brian Eno. The reason being why is if you are writing something that is this repetitious you best treat change with a great deal of care, and the listed composers do it well. Not that you are attempting a piece that is 2 hours long, or the like, but detail to how change happens, when it happens, how the change eventually changes, etc. are pretty important to the listener and their reception of what they hear. To me, many of the initial changes occur "just because", which is not my favorite reason why.:p However the mini-explosion of change at the end is nice, well placed in the scope of the piece, etc. I just wished it lasted a moment or two longer.

The only other thing I will mention is silence. I don't remember there being any silence, or even any relatively textural thin moments. The result is the mass of sound, which can be effective, but typically works best when juxtaposed against it's opposite (silence). Silence can be one of the hardest things to implement, but once you really start to work with it your music will finally have a chance to breathe. Overall good work, and I did quite enjoy Selppin Seiram (I just want to hear a live version with non-software instruments)!

[ZiggyPastorius]

Pardon if this gets too critical; since I know you are wanting to study music I will try to give a bit more detailed, craft-oriented commentary.

Selppin Seiram- IMO, this song seems to be the most solid piece, and really works in a quiet-NIN way. I actually think this song would be 500% better if done acoustically: organ, piano, harpsichord (maybe distorted with mild reverb) and cello. I think what was originally your "guitar" part (:41) is what I hear as harpsichord, in case you were wondering. I do think the end, say 1:44-1:48 could be explored more throughly, as the texture of those few seconds is drastically different than what happened up until that point. The piano fragment after the 1:44-1:48 mark is quite nice in helping to wrap the song up.

Shards of Reality- The bass hits in the first 2 mins are a bit redundant. See Autechre's Gelk for an example of bass hits. Basically, the bass is stagnant, and just a doubling down the octave, or a higher pitched grace note leading into the bass hit would work wonders. The sequenced backdrop is ok, but the "moan" that happens occasionally might work better as some form of wood percussion; think of a single-stroke roll on a wood block that slows down as it decays. The traditional beat around 2 mins in really comes from no where, maybe a gradual fade into it or a more striking jump to the beat (insert silence/instrument change/volume change?).

Barebacked Leader of Trinoble- Some what reminds me of a cross between Rammstein and 80's pop. Maybe the 80's pop thought is just because of the waveform of the synth. This song would also work better with live performers, as the various rhythmic parts are, well, too sterile. Sterility can be an issue for all music of this ilk when it comes to rhythm/repetition and is thus my main issue with this song.

The Bravest Brevity- Listen to some minimalism if you don't already; Philip Glass, Steve Reich and John Adams are fairly accessible ways to get into the genre. If you want some more pop oriented people to listen to check out Brian Eno. The reason being why is if you are writing something that is this repetitious you best treat change with a great deal of care, and the listed composers do it well. Not that you are attempting a piece that is 2 hours long, or the like, but detail to how change happens, when it happens, how the change eventually changes, etc. are pretty important to the listener and their reception of what they hear. To me, many of the initial changes occur "just because", which is not my favorite reason why.:p However the mini-explosion of change at the end is nice, well placed in the scope of the piece, etc. I just wished it lasted a moment or two longer.

The only other thing I will mention is silence. I don't remember there being any silence, or even any relatively textural thin moments. The result is the mass of sound, which can be effective, but typically works best when juxtaposed against it's opposite (silence). Silence can be one of the hardest things to implement, but once you really start to work with it your music will finally have a chance to breathe. Overall good work, and I did quite enjoy Selppin Seiram (I just want to hear a live version with non-software instruments)!

Haha, thanks a lot, man! Hopefully you'll revisit this thread to see my reply.

First thing I'll say is, Shards of Reality is not my work, so I can't speak for Joe on that one :p (The only pieces Joe wrote were the original Nightmare Before Pet Grooming in Wisconsin, Untitled, Shards of Reality, Explicit Baby Hunt, and the Sandstorm "remix." Everything else is on my shoulders, heh)

Anyways, a lot of good points in here, and I surely cannot argue with them, as the amount of effort and time I put into these pieces really could be more/better.

Selppin Seiram: I have actually considered (I was thinking about it a few minutes ago, actually, before I checked on this thread) redoing it with real instruments when I get some actual recording equipment (namely, my Apogee Duet later this year). As for the instruments in the current version, every instrument I used was meant to be that sound (as in, the harpsichord sound was not meant to be a guitar). As for the reference to NIN, it's understandable, as when I started Selppin Seiram (Don't read it backwards, by the way ...), I meant it to be a NIN remix for remix.nin.com (I have a few other remixes up on there, but they're not very good, including one with my own vocals). I believe the very beginning noise is directly from Eraser (I think?). I started with that, but when I started building, it became more my own. One important thing to remember is that I do a lot of experimenting with songs like these, and that's in no way trying to defend the song's weak points :p . I plan on, in the future (maybe during my free time at Blue Lake this summer), redoing a lot of the songs, and trying to revise them. Overall, Selppin Seiram would, as you said, be one of the better songs I've made with Logic..I just like the overall texture of it, though, you're right, many many things could be improved.

Speaking of Philip Glass and Brian Eno..I was listening to the Heroes and Low symphonies today :p They just happened to have arranged those together. Also funny you should mention Brian Eno, as, in Pop/Rock music, David Bowie is my favourite artist, and they have quite the history together...

The Barebacked Leader of Trinoble - This is a classic example of how unable to make up my mind I am when it comes to music. Going from Selppin Seiram to this, there's an obvious difference, which a much more upbeat, electronic sound, rather than a pseudo-acoustic feel for Selppin. Probably my biggest admitted problem is I'm too lazy to put variation in these songs. You probably noticed in many of the songs, once I introduce a part, I like to keep that part going and then bring more into the foreground. You mentioned this, and it's something I need to break away from, as it kind of makes all the music seem monotonous.

The Bravest Brevity - Even though I understand where you're coming from, I was going for more of a Ghosts type sound here. Not that I was trying to copy Trent Reznor, but, I had just downloaded Ghosts and listened through the entire album, and one of my pitfalls as a musician is it's usually right after a listen to some artist or album that I feel the need to go and compose. Going back and listening, though, I need to work on many of the transitions. It isn't quite as smooth as I'd like it to be...

The care I take with these songs could be improved by even just spending an extra half an hour or less on each one..Now that you mention it, I will look in my next few works (when I have the time. This week is horribly busy x_x But, better than this past weekend, as we just finished our three-day artrageous school arts festival. That's a headache, phew.) to implement silence a bit better. This shouldn't be too hard, as most of what I do in Logic is experimental anyways :) One thing I want to say, though...If you ever have a little while, and if you had any interest at all (I don't know what kind of software you have..Do you have Finale?), I have finished an Orchestral piece that has gone through a ******** of revision, and I spent a lot of time on, and even though is still very amateur in the grand scheme of things, I think (Or atleast, I hope) it is a bit better done than my electronic stuff. Anyways, the piece is called Riverandi Mysterioso, and if you'd ever like to look at the score to that, I'd be happy to share the .mus file with you..

Thank you for the advice, and hopefully I'll be able to bring something to the table that's a little bit more musically mature with my next piece :)

[faintember]

RE The Bravest Brevity- I haven't heard Ghosts yet, so I couldn't judge the song with that in mind. Actually I haven't been listening to hardly anything recently as I have been working on a new piece and doing listening regarding some of the ideas I am working with.

The care I take with these songs could be improved by even just spending an extra half an hour or less on each one..Now that you mention it, I will look in my next few works (when I have the time. This week is horribly busy x_x But, better than this past weekend, as we just finished our three-day artrageous school arts festival. That's a headache, phew.) to implement silence a bit better. This shouldn't be too hard, as most of what I do in Logic is experimental anyways :) One thing I want to say, though...If you ever have a little while, and if you had any interest at all (I don't know what kind of software you have..Do you have Finale?), I have finished an Orchestral piece that has gone through a ******** of revision, and I spent a lot of time on, and even though is still very amateur in the grand scheme of things, I think (Or atleast, I hope) it is a bit better done than my electronic stuff. Anyways, the piece is called Riverandi Mysterioso, and if you'd ever like to look at the score to that, I'd be happy to share the .mus file with you..

Thank you for the advice, and hopefully I'll be able to bring something to the table that's a little bit more musically mature with my next piece :)

Just know that my criticism comes from my undergrad, masters and doctoral training, and is meant in the best light in that my aim is to be constructive. Composition, in all of it's forms, is highly subjective and personal, so don't let my comments (or any others) necessarily change your musical goal, rather use them as ways to possibly solidify your goal and to create a more rich end-product.

As to the "silence" comments; some of the mentioned songs would benefit from it, but it is more of a commentary on all future songs. Silence and other forms of tension are very much like foreplay except without all of the touching and bodily fluids.;) My point is, keep silence in mind. Even in my own work I really have to work at silence in most of my pieces, debating if a pause should be 3 seconds, 3 1/2 seconds 3 5/8 seconds etc. Experimenting is fine, just try to be as true as possibly to what you already hear in your head rather than accepting a lesser product as "experimentation"; this is often a common problem for many composers, and one that I own up to with some of my early interactive/hyperinstrument compositions.

I thought I emailed you about the orchestral piece and the Berklee info, so I guess I thought to send it and didn't or the PM didn't go through. As to the Berklee info my friends were there and gone by the time the laptop program was instituted, so no real help for you there. As to the orchestral piece feel free to send me the score. I do have Finale and other notation programs, but I would prefer a simple PDF of the score. To do this just open Finale, File>Print>PDF>Save as PDF (which works in most OS X programs IIRC). The reason I prefer a PDF is that, even with the same version of Finale the files can look different between two computers; it may be a small difference, such as a misplaced accent marking, or it could be major in that the score is unreadable. This almost always happens when I send a non-traditional graphic score to someone, and besides a PDF is accessible regardless of notational software program/version. That and I trust my internal ear much more than notation software MIDI playback.:D So you should hopefully get a PM from me following this post.

[ZiggyPastorius]

RE The Bravest Brevity- I haven't heard Ghosts yet, so I couldn't judge the song with that in mind. Actually I haven't been listening to hardly anything recently as I have been working on a new piece and doing listening regarding some of the ideas I am working with.



Just know that my criticism comes from my undergrad, masters and doctoral training, and is meant in the best light in that my aim is to be constructive. Composition, in all of it's forms, is highly subjective and personal, so don't let my comments (or any others) necessarily change your musical goal, rather use them as ways to possibly solidify your goal and to create a more rich end-product.

As to the "silence" comments; some of the mentioned songs would benefit from it, but it is more of a commentary on all future songs. Silence and other forms of tension are very much like foreplay except without all of the touching and bodily fluids.;) My point is, keep silence in mind. Even in my own work I really have to work at silence in most of my pieces, debating if a pause should be 3 seconds, 3 1/2 seconds 3 5/8 seconds etc. Experimenting is fine, just try to be as true as possibly to what you already hear in your head rather than accepting a lesser product as "experimentation"; this is often a common problem for many composers, and one that I own up to with some of my early interactive/hyperinstrument compositions.

I thought I emailed you about the orchestral piece and the Berklee info, so I guess I thought to send it and didn't or the PM didn't go through. As to the Berklee info my friends were there and gone by the time the laptop program was instituted, so no real help for you there. As to the orchestral piece feel free to send me the score. I do have Finale and other notation programs, but I would prefer a simple PDF of the score. To do this just open Finale, File>Print>PDF>Save as PDF (which works in most OS X programs IIRC). The reason I prefer a PDF is that, even with the same version of Finale the files can look different between two computers; it may be a small difference, such as a misplaced accent marking, or it could be major in that the score is unreadable. This almost always happens when I send a non-traditional graphic score to someone, and besides a PDF is accessible regardless of notational software program/version. That and I trust my internal ear much more than notation software MIDI playback.:D So you should hopefully get a PM from me following this post.

Yeah, I know. I wasn't taking offence or anything to your comments, and I appreciate all the advice. I sent you the score (Be prepared to rip your hair out as your college composition knowledge goes haywire with confusion), so, that should be there. Any advice you give is much appreciated, so, nothing really in particular.

Electronic music is one of my pass-times, where Jazz and orchestral is more of a serious endeavour for me. Though, at this point in time, I'm considering maybe making one of my majors in college music synthesis, and I've found I really enjoy making electronic music. Anyways, yeah.

[faintember]

Yeah, I know. I wasn't taking offence or anything to your comments, and I appreciate all the advice. I sent you the score (Be prepared to rip your hair out as your college composition knowledge goes haywire with confusion), so, that should be there. Any advice you give is much appreciated, so, nothing really in particular.Glad you didn't take offense! Composition is a very emotional endeavor and not knowing you personally I added that disclaimer.:D I did get the score and gave it a cursory glance and saw some good things as well as some places I would like to make comment. Have you had any composition/theory lessons? Just wondering because I would prefer to talk to you rather than over you (which I have a tendency to do in regards to music)! Maybe we can do an iChat discussion sometime so we can discuss this in a more real time manner.

Electronic music is one of my pass-times, where Jazz and orchestral is more of a serious endeavour for me. Though, at this point in time, I'm considering maybe making one of my majors in college music synthesis, and I've found I really enjoy making electronic music. Anyways, yeah.Jazz composition is something I have failed miserably at (I used to be referred to as "L7"), and don't feel called to do, so I am of little practical help in that area. Acoustic and Electroacoustic music is more of my forte, with a tendency towards abstract/dark themes. I'll probably just send you a score of mine to help clarify that, hehe.

If you are interested in electronic music as a course of study I highly recommend getting some hands-on experience with vintage analog equipment as it, and the methods used with it really help when transitioning to the computer both from the practical and the compositional level. I don't mean that you have to start working just from tape decks, analog synths and musique concrète, but it does give a different feel/respect/understanding for things we often take for granted in the digital age. It also helps in the understanding of all of the wonderful early electronic music as well as contemporary electronic music.

[ZiggyPastorius]

Glad you didn't take offense! Composition is a very emotional endeavor and not knowing you personally I added that disclaimer.:D I did get the score and gave it a cursory glance and saw some good things as well as some places I would like to make comment. Have you had any composition/theory lessons? Just wondering because I would prefer to talk to you rather than over you (which I have a tendency to do in regards to music)! Maybe we can do an iChat discussion sometime so we can discuss this in a more real time manner.

Jazz composition is something I have failed miserably at (I used to be referred to as "L7"), and don't feel called to do, so I am of little practical help in that area. Acoustic and Electroacoustic music is more of my forte, with a tendency towards abstract/dark themes. I'll probably just send you a score of mine to help clarify that, hehe.

If you are interested in electronic music as a course of study I highly recommend getting some hands-on experience with vintage analog equipment as it, and the methods used with it really help when transitioning to the computer both from the practical and the compositional level. I don't mean that you have to start working just from tape decks, analog synths and musique concrète, but it does give a different feel/respect/understanding for things we often take for granted in the digital age. It also helps in the understanding of all of the wonderful early electronic music as well as contemporary electronic music.

Oh yeah, it is very emotional. While I sometimes get down when I think about my skills as a composer, that's really just my fault. Deep down, I know and accept that I'm not great, and hope that maybe one day I will be, but for now, I don't take offence to criticisms, because I know a real musician could skin me up and down in just about everything I write :p Music has been really confusing for me, because it's my passion, but I just can't decide what is the most important thing to me. I started being really dedicated to my principal instrument, and still am, but, when I got better than everyone else in my school, my learning stopped. I can't afford lessons, I've never taken composition lessons or read books on composition, I've only done score analysis and such. I read music theory books, know all my majors, minors, diminished, augmented, special scales, et cetera, I have good relative pitch, and basic skills in several instruments. Unfortunately, I've never really refined myself too well on the composition side, and everything I do is self taught through study and experimentation. If you'd like to PM me your AIM/.Mac thing, I can add you on iChat and we can talk. I should be able to follow you for the most part, as I know a lot about music, it's mostly the application that is where I struggle, but I'm by no means a master...And don't worry, I do that too :p Nobody else around here knows as much about music as me (In terms of people in my age group. Obviously teachers and pros do.

Oh wait, I forgot, I did take one composition lesson once at Hillsdale College, which is in my town...But it cost me $60 out of my own pocket for an hour, so I didn't do it again.

I mentioned the music synthesis, but considering my actual goal is to be a post-secondary educator in music, my studies will probably be a (Master's Degree) major in like, composition or theory, and then a minor in my principle instrument (which is the Fretless Electric Bass, and I'm going in for jazz :p), but I don't know for sure. I do plan on going as a jazz bassist, but I fail pretty bad in Jazz, too...I am way far away from the know-how when it comes to jazz, but I'm trying to improve on that...most of my composing is orchestral or electronic.

Uh, I think I got everything. Thanks a lot for the help, and like I said, just PM me your iChat info, or even better, I'll PM you mine. Peace!