Financing for 17 year olds.

[Hummer]

I'm trying to purchase a car (actually the car isn't the hard part as I can currently afford a car, including maintenance because I could do it all myself with my experience), but I'm also trying to afford insurance at the same time. I can only pay for one at the same time. So I'm trying to take out a loan so I am able to pay off both of them at a slower rate but also at the amount I'd be able to pay for them both until eventually my insurance rate goes down.

No parental involvement at all, not because I don't want them to be involved, it's just that they will not for fear of losing the house due to me driving idiotically and getting sued (For one I don't break 20 on streets and 50 on the highway, but they believe I'm highly influenced). Anyways I can currently only afford around 500 dollars a month. If I lease a decent car (low end japanese car, or volkswagen) , the insurance would cost me an equal amount or more (up to 700 bucks a month). I can only pay for one or the other at one time until I graduate which is when I can work more hours between my two jobs and then I can pay for them both.

Now please guys forget about everything else. Assume you know nothing else about my life and try not to talk like you know what's best for me and what I should be doing instead of purchasing a car. I've heard it all from many different people. I simply would like to know if there is any possible way that I could get a bank or private company to loan me money towards a car.

[dukebound85]

why not get a used car. this will have cheaper payments and lower insurance rates

[Hummer]

why not get a used car. this will have cheaper payments and lower insurance rates

My insurance rate stays the same no matter what car I get believe it or not (this is how high of quotes I have gotten from insurance companies). Also with the experience my family has had with purchasing used cars, after a while they just become not worth it. I'd rather just lease something living in the city, something I'm not stuck with when it starts to lemon out.

[Nabooly]

I hope you're not planning on leasing a new car?

[yg17]

You're 17, so you're not going to get a loan. Even if you were 18, you probably wouldn't get a loan (or would get one with a ridiculously high interest rate) due to not having any credit. Get your parents involved. They're not going to get sued, believe me, I know from experience. I was in an accident at 17, and ruled at fault and was sued. My insurance company took care of everything and it was settled out of court without me (or my parents) paying a dime out of pocket (other than the premium increases) or losing anything.

[ErikCLDR]

I'm trying to purchase a car (actually the car isn't the hard part as I can currently afford a car, including maintenance because I could do it all myself with my experience), but I'm also trying to afford insurance at the same time. I can only pay for one at the same time. So I'm trying to take out a loan so I am able to pay off both of them at a slower rate but also at the amount I'd be able to pay for them both until eventually my insurance rate goes down.

No parental involvement at all, not because I don't want them to be involved, it's just that they will not for fear of losing the house due to me driving idiotically and getting sued (For one I don't break 20 on streets and 50 on the highway, but they believe I'm highly influenced). Anyways I can currently only afford around 500 dollars a month. If I lease a decent car (low end japanese car, or volkswagen) , the insurance would cost me an equal amount or more (up to 700 bucks a month). I can only pay for one or the other at one time until I graduate which is when I can work more hours between my two jobs and then I can pay for them both.

Now please guys forget about everything else. Assume you know nothing else about my life and try not to talk like you know what's best for me and what I should be doing instead of purchasing a car. I've heard it all from many different people. I simply would like to know if there is any possible way that I could get a bank or private company to loan me money towards a car.

It's so much cheaper if you're under your parents insurance. $700 monthly seems very high. Don't use progressive or geico or allstate because they will charge you a lot. Find an insurance broker to find you car insurance.

I wouldn't recommend making car payments. See if you can get your parents to buy the car and then have you pay them back. I doubt you can even make payments under the age of 18 because you don't have a credit score.

Don't buy a VW, unless its an OLD one. Everyone I know that has owned a modern VW, including my family have had horrible reliability issues and they're not cheap to fix either. I read an article a few days ago saying that VW, along with Mercedes have the highest costs of ownership.

Go with a Japanese car, definitely cheaper to maintain and less overall maintenance too. Higher resale value too.

Talk to your parents more, see if you can get insured under them. The point of insurance is for your own protection. I am 17 too, and my insurance is about $2500 yearly which is high compared to most of my friends but thats probably because I drive a Land Rover w/collision & comprehensive insurance and my parents have nice cars. Furthermore there are 4 drivers in my household, and 5 cars which doesn't help either.

Most of my friends' insurance is $1400-$1800 that are boys and 17 with no driving infractions. One of my friends has a 2002 BMW 540i and his insurance is $3600 :eek: yearly.

[dukebound85]

My insurance rate stays the same no matter what car I get believe it or not (this is how high of quotes I have gotten from insurance companies). Also with the experience my family has had with purchasing used cars, after a while they just become not worth it. I'd rather just lease something living in the city, something I'm not stuck with when it starts to lemon out.

i disagree. you will have lower rates if you were driving say an 02 civic that costs like 8k vs say a vette lol


the value, age of car and type of car (sports, sedan, etc) all play into insurance rates. of course so does your driving record

[Nabooly]

i disagree. you will have lower rates if you were driving say an 02 civic that costs like 8k vs say a vette lol


the value, age of car and type of car (sports, sedan, etc) all play into insurance rates. of course so does your driving record

Yeah the rate will definitely change based on what kind of car you drive. Heck theres a difference between rates for a V6 vs. a 4 cyl. Even the paint color can make a difference (red is the highest if i recall).

[yg17]

Even the paint color can make a difference (red is the highest if i recall).


I'm pretty sure that's not true.

But I agree with the rest. It DOES make a difference on what kind of car you drive. Go onto one of the insurance websites and do a quote for yourself on something like a Honda Civic, then on something like a BMW M5, Corvette Z06, Dodge Viper or whatever your favorite expensive, powerful sports car is. There will be a huge difference.

[swiftaw]

I'm pretty sure that's not true.

I don't think it does, although, they say that red cars do get pulled over more often

[biturbomunkie]

with a checking account which shows that you have steady income and a reasonable amount of down payment (like 1/2 of the car's out-the-door price), you should be able to finance a car. chances are a new car might be more appealing cos of its lower interest rate and the auto industry is going south. i have done it, and i wouldn't do it again but it's up to you. :)

be sure to do more research if you are worried about your parents losing their house. i was told that as long as you are a minor and reside with a parent or guardian, he or she could still get sued. i never found out if it's true or not cos i moved out when i was 16/17.

[yg17]

I don't think it does, although, they say that red cars do get pulled over more often

http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/redcars.asp

[swiftaw]

http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/redcars.asp

That's why I said 'they say' it's all antidotal

[yg17]

with a checking account which shows that you have steady income and a reasonable amount of down payment (like 1/2 of the car's out-the-door price), you should be able to finance a car. chances are a new car might be more appealing cos of its lower interest rate and the auto industry is going south. i have done it, and i wouldn't do it again but it's up to you. :)

be sure to do more research if you are worried about your parents losing their house. i was told that as long as you are a minor and reside with a parent or guardian, he or she could still get sued. i never found out if it's true or not cos i moved out when i was 16/17.


He's not going to be able to finance a car 1t 17. Period. Taking out a loan is a legal contract and you must be 18 to sign one.

And while I'm not sure if your parents can get sued or not, if you have halfway decent insurance, it won't matter because they'll pay EVERYTHING. My insurance company hired a lawyer for me. They paid out the settlement. My only cost throughout the entire ordeal was the gas I spent driving down to my lawyer's office a couple times.

[biturbomunkie]

He's not going to be able to finance a car 1t 17. Period. Taking out a loan is a legal contract and you must be 18 to sign one.

somehow i was thinking under 21 but totally missed the 17 part. :o

[CanadaRAM]

The age of majority differs by your state/province/country. 19 years in Canada.

[Hummer]

Getting my parents involved is not an option. I am very bitter at my parents for not putting me on their insurance when I said I'd pay for it. I even picked up a job working 28 hours a week with school to show them I could pay them. When that didn't work, I picked up a second job out of spite working 40 hours a week with school 7 days a week, thus screwing up my senior year of high school.

My dad said he's afraid of losing the house. I went through the trouble of getting him information on how to put the house into a trust which would help him out if he were EVER to get sued not just by fault of myself. He totally ignored any of the information not even responding to the suggestion. They're both lazy excuse givers and I gave up trying to please them a long time ago, now I'm just trying to do things on my own. I recently took over my own phone bill and I'm attempting to put myself through school. I also will move out once I turn 18 under whatever financial circumstances...

Anyways, yea, the only option I see working out now out of all of your responses is getting a car from a private seller and forgetting about the insurance part.

[swiftaw]

Anyways, yea, the only option I see working out now out of all of your responses is getting a car from a private seller and forgetting about the insurance part.

Do you mean, you don't plan on buying insurance?

First of all that is illegal, secondly it is down right stupid.

[biturbomunkie]

forgetting about the insurance part.

don't even think about that. you are too young to take that risk. consider the pros and cons - if anything happens, it could haunt you for the rest of your life.

[Hummer]

Do you mean, you don't plan on buying insurance?

First of all that is illegal, secondly it is down right stupid.

Yes, I know and yes I know. But at this point I'm doing everything out of strong personal spite. And it does sound like my only option. There is more that would lead to more insight on why I'm so desperate/crazy over driving, but yea I see no other viable options. A third job would require me to drop out and one very high paying job doesn't come without its "just as stupid as not buying insurance" as the very high paying jobs I know I can get would come without workers insurance and would basically be off any books of any kind (no not illegal activity, but just bad working conditions and no kind of job safety or insurance).

[swiftaw]

Yes, I know and yes I know. But at this point I'm doing everything out of strong personal spite. And it does sound like my only option. There is more that would lead to more insight on why I'm so desperate/crazy over driving, but yea I see no other viable options. A third job would require me to drop out and one very high paying job doesn't come without its "just as stupid as not buying insurance" with my current experience.

I think the only logical conclusion you can reach is that you cannot afford a car with all it's ancillary costs (which includes insurance, gas, registration, sales tax, and excise tax) especially if you also plan on moving out and getting your own place. Be glad that you live in a city that has decent public transport.

[Nabooly]

Getting my parents involved is not an option. I am very bitter at my parents for not putting me on their insurance when I said I'd pay for it. I even picked up a job working 28 hours a week with school to show them I could pay them. When that didn't work, I picked up a second job out of spite working 40 hours a week with school 7 days a week, thus screwing up my senior year of high school.

My dad said he's afraid of losing the house. I went through the trouble of getting him information on how to put the house into a trust which would help him out if he were EVER to get sued not just by fault of myself. He totally ignored any of the information not even responding to the suggestion. They're both lazy excuse givers and I gave up trying to please them a long time ago, now I'm just trying to do things on my own. I recently took over my own phone bill and I'm attempting to put myself through school. I also will move out once I turn 18 under whatever financial circumstances...

Anyways, yea, the only option I see working out now out of all of your responses is getting a car from a private seller and forgetting about the insurance part.
Why is your dad so uptight about losing the house? And sued for what? Getting in an accident, and it being your fault? Well thats exactly what insurance is for. Unless your extremely poor you shouldn't even worry about losing the house, as long as you get insurance.

[biturbomunkie]

But at this point I'm doing everything out of strong personal spite.

in that case, you should really put yourself first - including your future.

i've been there and i know it's hard. but how many months away from 18? also, the fact that you are in queens is way better than somewhere like los angeles in terms of pubic transportation.

[Hummer]

Why is your dad so uptight about losing the house? And sued for what? Getting in an accident, and it being your fault? Well thats exactly what insurance is for. Unless your extremely poor you shouldn't even worry about losing the house, as long as you get insurance.

He just built a house and it's his dream or whatever but he keeps saying he's doing it for us. When he's definitely not doing it for me because I don't want this damn thing. (I know this sounds selfish, but I don't believe anyone asked him to build a house, it's all his idea and his project, but he's taking us along for the ride.)

Sued for me getting into an accident with some friends or something, but over the insurance coverage range.

I think the only logical conclusion you can reach is that you cannot afford a car with all it's ancillary costs (which includes insurance, gas, registration, sales tax, and excise tax) especially if you also plan on moving out and getting your own place. Be glad that you live in a city that has decent public transport.

That's the reason I started this thread. I can only afford a car, gas, registration and all that. I've factored in it all to realize all I cannot afford at the same time is insurance which is why I need some help which most people do need when buying a car. But the only problem is I am a minor and in this society I am not legally able to sign a contract or be trusted. So as of now I'm trying to find a way to solve this problem.

Oh yea and commuting in Queens sucks.

[ErikCLDR]

You really need to have a talk with your parents.

You seem to be working too hard for this and you won't be able to get financing if you are under 18 and you won't be able to lease a car either.

And the type of car makes a HUGE difference with your insurance. If you're driving an old beater your insurance is going to be zippo. If you're driving a new car you're going to want to have collision on it which is going to cost more, and the value of the car is higher. If you're driving a BMW M5 then your insurance is going to be even higher because its fast, expensive to fix, and very valuable.

You really should be spending more time on school and less time working.

Believe me I've done that math and there is no way I could afford a car, gas, and insurance at the age of 17.

[LethalWolfe]

Yes, I know and yes I know. But at this point I'm doing everything out of strong personal spite. And it does sound like my only option.
If out of spite you are willing to break the law and put yourself, as well as others, at risk by driving w/o insurance maybe your parents are right to question your decision making ability.


Lethal

[dukebound85]

If out of spite you are willing to break the law and put yourself, as well as others, at risk by driving w/o insurance maybe your parents are right to question your decision making ability.


Lethal

true with that attitude you dont deserve a car at all

if i were to get hit by you and it was your fault and my family had significant injuries and you had no insurance to cover them, i would be so angry it wouldnt even be funny

get insurance or dont get a car.....PERIOD

[swiftaw]

Also, New York State makes it very very hard for you to register an uninsured car (as they should). They require a proof of insurance card from you when you go to the DMV to register, and they also require electronic confirmation from your insurance company.

[rhsgolfer33]

What's wrong with taking public transit? Your location says Queens, New York which I understand has a decent bus system and offers many ways to get into the main city.

Why don't your parents just help you pay for your own insurance policy? That way it is in your own name so they might not be held as liable if you get into an accident (although since you are a minor I think it is still possible for them to be sued for your actions).

If you really want a car just buy a used one. I hate it when people say used cars are crappy. Get a 1-2 year old used car with under 30k mile on it and the majority of the time you save a good chunk of change on what you would have paid for it new. My first car was a 1 year old pickup truck with 11000 mile on it and still had packaging materials hanging on to it from when it was shipped new. I got it for about $5000-7000 under bluebook and about $10000 under its new price. Plus insurance was cheaper and it was still under manufacturers warranty. Another plus can be buying a certified preowned which usually offers 2 years more warranty in addition to any remaining manufacturers warranty.

My advice, go get yourself a 2-5 year old honda civic. But after saying you'd be willing to drive uninsured out of spite I don't really think your mature enough to be driving anyway. That would also still put your parents at risk of being sued and if you happened to hit and injure someone like me without insurance you'd better believe I'd b going after a nice chuck of change.

[Hummer]

If out of spite you are willing to break the law and put yourself, as well as others, at risk by driving w/o insurance maybe your parents are right to question your decision making ability.


Lethal

Only I wish I had another choice that leads to a solution. There is no other way that I could decide that would lead to a solution. But there is something very simple my parents could do to open up my choices. This is the entire point I'm trying to make. They simply could add me to their insurance, I'd save lots of money, be able to keep one job, graduate from high school, not screw up other lives as well as my own, and guess what there isn't one negative there.

Now yes I know its an extremely stupid choice, but I am trying to prove a point to them overall and if they don't see that I'm already going down a bad path with overworking and not caring about anything else, what will make them understand that maybe its not so bad to put me on their insurance. Could they be that blind to not see what I'm doing when I'm blatantly telling them my every move?

[rhsgolfer33]

And while I'm not sure if your parents can get sued or not, if you have halfway decent insurance, it won't matter because they'll pay EVERYTHING. My insurance company hired a lawyer for me. They paid out the settlement. My only cost throughout the entire ordeal was the gas I spent driving down to my lawyer's office a couple times.

Your insurance will only cover everything up to the amount you're covered in each one of their coverage categories. You can be held liable for anything above that coverage. That's why it's good to have high coverage in many cases, especially if you have a lot of assets to loose :cough:expensive home in NY:cough:.

[Hummer]

I'm sorry you guys. I hate going into rants, but you guys care too much. :/ And I always feel some need to explain. I am sorry, but I just feel screwed over out of something so simple that I am not asking them to foot. I feel they're saying they can't trust me when even they're in the car they don't want me driving. It deeply saddens me especially when 75% of my friends are driving their parents expensive cars around and I can't get something I'm willing to pay for by working my ass off for it. I've spent years waiting to be able to get my license and a lot of time and work trying to save up money to take classes to make it possible. Not to mention I was an A student on the Honor Roll every semester until this whole thing. But yet my friends get it given to them and I'm not able to even work for it. It's so hurtful.

[Nabooly]

Only I wish I had another choice that leads to a solution. There is no other way that I could decide that would lead to a solution. But there is something very simple my parents could do to open up my choices. This is the entire point I'm trying to make. They simply could add me to their insurance, I'd save lots of money, be able to keep one job, graduate from high school, not screw up other lives as well as my own, and guess what there isn't one negative there.

Now yes I know its an extremely stupid choice, but I am trying to prove a point to them overall and if they don't see that I'm already going down a bad path with overworking and not caring about anything else, what will make them understand that maybe its not so bad to put me on their insurance. Could they be that blind to not see what I'm doing when I'm blatantly telling them my every move?

Sorry for the question, but why do you absolutely haveto have a car, at this point? Your still in highschool. When you go to college you'll haveto get a car (and by that time you'll be 18 (presumably)).

Edit: I just saw ur above comment. Ignore.

Screwing up now on purpose will only hurt your future, not your father's.

[rhsgolfer33]

I'm sorry you guys. I hate going into rants, but you guys care too much. :/ And I always feel some need to explain. I am sorry, but I just feel screwed over out of something so simple that I am not asking them to foot. I feel they're saying they can't trust me when even they're in the car they don't want me driving. It deeply saddens me especially when 75% of my friends are driving their parents expensive cars around and I can't get something I'm willing to pay for by working my ass off for it. I've spent years waiting to be able to get my license and a lot of time and work trying to save up money to take classes to make it possible. Not to mention I was an A student on the Honor Roll every semester until this whole thing. But yet my friends get it given to them and I'm not able to even work for it. It's so hurtful.

Don't worry about it so much at this point man. You're not looking far enough ahead. Not driving for a few years is a good thing, you'll save a lot of money plus you won't have to drive anyone around when they ask for a ride or you go places. You'll be able to drive soon enough in the grand scheme of things, don't worry so much about it. I agree that it sucks that your parents won't put you on their insurance, but you'll just have to deal with it for now, I imagine in a few years or less you'll be driving and wishing you didn't have to spend all your money on gas and insurance. Driving ain't all its cracked up to be, in fact, its a pain in the butt a lot of the time. You live in a huge city, go have some fun without a car. I'd also suggest getting back on that honor roll, school is a lot more important than working a job so you can drive a car. And man, if not getting to drive is hurtful you better man up, because your friends, coworkers, relatives will all get stuff handed to them for the rest of your life that you wish you could have or do, if you let it get you down you'll be leading one sucky, very depressed life.

[ErikCLDR]

Last time I checked you have to be 18 to drive a car in NYC if you live in NY.

[Hummer]

Last time I checked you have to be 18 to drive a car in NYC if you live in NY.

You have to be 16 to get a permit (so many restrictions and someone must be in the car with you). 18 to get your senior license and drive alone with no restrictins, but there is a program offered by the state through some high schools thats costly if you don't go to one of these schools. You can get your senior license at the age of 17 with this program; which is what I saved up for and endured for 4 long months. It's basically an entire semester long in which you go through intensive driving lessons and you also get a discount on your insurance which doesn't really help at all, but it's just more of a draw to take it.

The class cost me $550 bucks which will ultimately go to waste if I am not able to take advantage of my early license.

[TheMonarch]

Sounds like you're desperate, but you're not willing to make any compromises.

You're going to have to:
Buy a used car + Insurance.
Or
Wait a couple of months until you're 18 and get a loan.

Thats basically it. You're out of options. I've known many stubborn people who are willing to screw themselves up just to prove a point, and its just a sad sight to see, Its not worth it. Suck it up and wait until you're 18. Its just a car, not the end of the world.

Keep in mind that without insurance you won't be able to register that car, and if somehow you drove anyway and got into an accident, your parents will be held liable.

[Hummer]

Keep in mind that without insurance you won't be able to register that car, and if somehow you drove anyway and got into an accident, your parents will be held liable.


And point is made.

[LethalWolfe]

And point is made.
Your parents won't help you out because they are afraid of you getting them sued so you want to create a situation w/a greater chance of you getting them sued.

Touché. :rolleyes:


Lethal

[Bill Gates]

And point is made.
It sounds to me like you can't afford a car at this point, nor do you need one. Save your money. If you were looking to spend hundreds each month for a lease then think of how much that will add up to if you just save it instead.

[Hummer]

Your parents won't help you out because they are afraid of you getting them sued so you want to create a situation w/a greater chance of you getting them sued.

Touché. :rolleyes:


Lethal

:P The point would be made because the accident is uninsured and therefore the situation would be far more worse than one that is insured because then other charges would come into play whether civil or criminal. The party suing has a better chance of winning the case as you're pretty much guilty riding around with no insurance.

[sushi]

That's why I said 'they say' it's all antidotal
I don't know about today, but 20 years ago, some friends of mine in law enforcement (County Sheriffs and State Police types) both informed me of the characteristics that they look for when pulling over a car if it was speeding. One characteristic was bright color such as red. Another was the type of car. So if you had a red sports car you were much more likely of being pulled over if you were speeding.

Times change so it could be different today.

[sushi]

The class cost me $550 bucks which will ultimately go to waste if I am not able to take advantage of my early license.
Actually it will not as you have learned how to drive safely.

why not get a used car. this will have cheaper payments and lower insurance rates
Good idea.

But at this point I'm doing everything out of strong personal spite.
Not a good idea.

What you do now, is going to affect you for many years to come.

There is no need to have a car in HS. Sure it's nice, but not required.

[CanadaRAM]

Your father's fears are real. A prominent politician here in BC's teenage daughter (with a valid DL and everything) ran into someone while under her father's insurance, and crippled the other driver for life. The father was sued successfully for something like 2 million dollars and lost everything - savings, house and all.

There's a word for your attitude - intransigent. Your posts come across as someone who is convinced that they have the only answer, there is no compromise possible, and #$% the world if they don't agree with me.

Now, that's not uncommon in teenagers, and not uncommon in family relationships.

But as a father, the attitude that is being communicated sounds to me like someone I would not trust as being mature enough to make decisions around driving.

Only I wish I had another choice that leads to a solution. There is no other way...

Now yes I know its an extremely stupid choice, but I am trying to prove a point to them

Those words scare the bejeesus out of me. You are not willing to admit there may be a compromise, AND you are willing to break the law and do something risky to prove a point.

You were my son, you'd have a bushel of maturity to show before you would be allowed to drive.

[wvuwhat]

If it's that much of a problem, don't worry about a car. Take the bus and bank that money earning interest. Believe me, when you're in college you'll be thankful you have that money...

[yg17]

Only I wish I had another choice that leads to a solution. There is no other way that I could decide that would lead to a solution. But there is something very simple my parents could do to open up my choices. This is the entire point I'm trying to make. They simply could add me to their insurance, I'd save lots of money, be able to keep one job, graduate from high school, not screw up other lives as well as my own, and guess what there isn't one negative there.

Now yes I know its an extremely stupid choice, but I am trying to prove a point to them overall and if they don't see that I'm already going down a bad path with overworking and not caring about anything else, what will make them understand that maybe its not so bad to put me on their insurance. Could they be that blind to not see what I'm doing when I'm blatantly telling them my every move?

If you do something stupid (and illegal) and drive without insurance, the only thing you'll be proving to your parents is that they're 100% correct in not helping you get a car.

[LethalWolfe]

:P The point would be made because the accident is uninsured and therefore the situation would be far more worse than one that is insured because then other charges would come into play whether civil or criminal. The party suing has a better chance of winning the case as you're pretty much guilty riding around with no insurance.

Going solely by the posts in this thread I wouldn't trust you w/a pair of safety scissors let alone a freakin' car. Take a step back and look at what you are wishing for. You want to break the law by the driving w/o insurance and hopefully injure an innocent person to the point that they'll sue your parents for a sh*t load of money they don't have. You want to ruin two families (yours and your victims) for what? To prove to your parents that you are too irresponsible to get a car?

WTF is wrong w/you? Grow the f**k up. Your almost 18 so it's a good time to start acting like more of a man and less like a child that'll break his toys if he doesn't get his way.

Also, publicly planning your desire to drive w/o insurance and run someone over on a public message board isn't too bright either.


Lethal

[sushi]

But as a father, the attitude that is being communicated sounds to me like someone I would not trust as being mature enough to make decisions around driving.
Agreed.

You were my son, you'd have a bushel of maturity to show before you would be allowed to drive.
Same here.

Going solely by the posts in this thread I wouldn't trust you w/a pair of safety scissors let alone a freakin' car. Take a step back and look at what you are wishing for. You want to break the law by the driving w/o insurance and hopefully injure an innocent person to the point that they'll sue your parents for a sh*t load of money they don't have. You want to ruin two families (yours and your victims) for what? To prove to your parents that you are too irresponsible to get a car?

WTF is wrong w/you? Grow the f**k up. Your almost 18 so it's a good time to start acting like more of a man and less like a child that'll break his toys if he doesn't get his way.

Also, publicly planning your desire to drive w/o insurance and run someone over on a public message board isn't too bright either.
Well put!

[taylorwilsdon]

To me, all I hear is: "I want a car now because all my friends have one and my friends friends have one and I want one NOWWWWW!"

You're (apparently) willing to drop out of high school, break the law and spend all your money just to have a car that you don't need.

A 17 year old can not get financing. Thats just the reality of it. Not due to credit score, because it is simply not legal. At 17, you can not sign a contract, and that is exactly what a loan or a payment plan is. NOT POSSIBLE.

If you are really willing to drive uninsured because you are too impatient or too headstrong to use the very competent public transportation, then you are not mature enough to drive a car, let alone manage a loan.

Get real. I understand why your dad doesn't want to be involved with this, because you simply haven't though anything through.


edit: My comments were based mostly on his quote here,
"It deeply saddens me especially when 75% of my friends are driving their parents expensive cars around and I can't get something I'm willing to pay for by working my ass off for it. I've spent years waiting to be able to get my license and a lot of time and work trying to save up money to take classes to make it possible. Not to mention I was an A student on the Honor Roll every semester until this whole thing. But yet my friends get it given to them and I'm not able to even work for it. It's so hurtful."

Please, hand me my tiny violin.

[Rodimus Prime]

:P The point would be made because the accident is uninsured and therefore the situation would be far more worse than one that is insured because then other charges would come into play whether civil or criminal. The party suing has a better chance of winning the case as you're pretty much guilty riding around with no insurance.

Hummer you have a lot to learn.

First off going on your parent coverage (you paying the rate increase) will protect them the most from getting sued because they insurances is going to be higher coverage than what you would be paying and cheaper to boot because as long as under 18 they are the ones hit when it goes. Hell as long as you are in college when the other person sues it will go after your parents. Friend of mine had that happened. The case was pretty lame. His parents would getting sued for negligent in letting him drive. He was 20 at the time and first time anything had ever happen including tickets

2ndly if you do get sued the insurance company handles the case. This is speaking for personal experience. Both my brother and I where sued when we where 17 for wrecks. It all goes though insurances. Both the cases where pretty lame but the insurance company hands the case.


As for your reasoning for needing a car. It is pretty lame. I can tell you the reason my brother, sister and I all got cars. Our lives are busy. We all had to be different places. When I was a teenager my sister was in like 6-7th grade and my parents where busy with her and I still needed to be able to get to band and other things like that so a car was given to me to free up time and make it one less person to worry about. Brother same reason. My sister the youngest got a car, first both her older brothers got one. 2nd she so busy at school it really helps out my parents having the extra driver.

I will say it is a pain to park all our cars in the drive way when my brother and I come home on a weekend. The drive way is not exactly designed to handle 6 vehicles. Yes there are 5 drivers and 6 vehicles. The 6th being a Dodge ram that is used as a truck mostly for what it was designed for. Hauling stuff. It some times used by me to get around if I happened to of flown home and left my car back in my respective city.

[ErikCLDR]

Just wait until you are 18 and then buy a car + insurance.

Really, you live in NYC. There is plenty of public transportation and everything you need in the city. I used to live in NY until I was five. Now I live in Connecticut where I have to drive 1/2hr on the highway just to find a decent restaurant or buy clothes. My town didn't have a McDonald's until 1997 and has a total of 5 stoplights.

Save for a used car. There is no sense in having to make car payments every month for a car that is likely to damaged being in the city and being driven by a young driver.

Where do you plan on driving to anyways out of curiosity?

[yg17]

I have to agree, why the hell do you need a car in NYC? I've been there (Queens included) and never saw any reason to need a car thanks to the extensive subway. And seeing how people in NYC drive, I wouldn't want to drive a car there anyways

[Plymouthbreezer]

You totally won't make enough to support yourself and all you are asking for. If you are as "independent" as you claim, I assume you buy all your own food and "toys" and other goodies... It all adds up to a lot more than you think. Not to mention, ONE blunder and your entire car could be done, which will thus lead to a lot of down-the-road repercussions. Bam. Dream killed.

Im 18, and have a nice car. I can afford lots of extras (food, cameras, lenses, coffee, movies, etc...), but only because my parents pay my insurance and bought me my car two years ago. My insurance is in *my own name*, for the fear your father has, but they still pay it - $2,500 a year and I have one minor accident on my policy. Monthly, I spend about $400 on gas food and other crap alone, so factor in insurance, I'd never be able to swing it.

It's not in your best interest to buy a car right now. Your parents nor you are in a position to make this leap.

[Les Kern]

Well there you go, another example of how, for instance, millions of people are part of the sub-prime mortgage mess.
I guess what's going to happen here, no matter what anyone says, is that car will be bought. And it's justification will only be related to the concept of "keeping up" and brain cells too early in their development to think rationally.
At least it's not a house... when it hits the fan with this car you should be able to climb out of the hole in time.

[rhsgolfer33]

My insurance is in *my own name*, for the fear your father has, but they still pay it - $2,500 a month and I have one minor accident on my policy.

Geez Plymouth, what kind of car are you driving? $2,500 a month? I think you mean $2,500 for 6 months or the whole year. I was insured on my mothers car when I first got my license (a 300hp sports sedan) and my insurance was only $4000 for the whole year. I could have insured myself on a brand new Ferrari when I was 18 for the amount of money you are talking about (I'm not kidding either). My insurance now, 3.5 years after getting my license is about $2500 a year and I live in an area where insurance tends to be higher than average.

[sushi]

My insurance is in *my own name*, for the fear your father has, but they still pay it - $2,500 a month and I have one minor accident on my policy.
That's $30,000 per year in insurance fees! :eek:

What kind of car do you have?

[Plymouthbreezer]

D'oh. Good catch guys.

Obviously, as you figured, that's per year. :D

[Nabooly]

That's $30,000 per year in insurance fees! :eek:

What kind of car do you have?
I'm guessing from his name a plymouth breeze? :D

[sushi]

D'oh. Good catch guys.

Obviously, as you figured, that's per year. :D
Okay, that make's sense, around $200 per month extra on your parents policy.

When I was in my 20's, I had a sports car per se, and my insurance (on my own policy) was around $500 per month. After a year or so, I decided that it was stupid to pay these high rates for insurance, plus maintenance, gas, etc. Since then, I've always purchased good used cars. Saved a lot of money over the years doing that.

I'm guessing from his name a plymouth breeze? :D
Maybe. :)

[starcrossed]

NY policies are expensive no matter what, whenever I write insurance policies at work NY is one of the states at the top. So for your first car, in your situation has to be used car with liability only, having a nice car with full coverage at your age might just be too much to take on. Inexperienced driver rates tend to last at least 3 years before insurance will go down. 2nd being that your 17, no one will write a policy for just yourself, so you will have to go under yours parents policy or wait till your 18 to get your own policy. 3rd if your father is worried about being sued and losing his house and stuff, he better already have some high liability limits on his policy already if not, whats to say he doesn't cause an accident and doesn't get sued himself. 4th even if you go out and get a cheap insurance policy at 18 for yourself, with state minimum coverage, if you cause an accident that exceeds your limits, there is still an oppurtunity that you will be considered a dependent, and someone might sue your parents for rest. And finally even if your 18 and go out and get a loan you either will get denied for no credit history or two get an insane interest that will just screw you over. Overall advice is just wait, and hopefully you will get in a position where financing just won't need to be an option.

[Plymouthbreezer]

I'm guessing from his name a plymouth breeze?
Nah...I drive a 2000 Chrysler Concorde:

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7093/4329my0.jpg

[gmecca2]

Getting my parents involved is not an option. I am very bitter at my parents for not putting me on their insurance when I said I'd pay for it. I even picked up a job working 28 hours a week with school to show them I could pay them. When that didn't work, I picked up a second job out of spite working 40 hours a week with school 7 days a week, thus screwing up my senior year of high school.

My dad said he's afraid of losing the house. I went through the trouble of getting him information on how to put the house into a trust which would help him out if he were EVER to get sued not just by fault of myself. He totally ignored any of the information not even responding to the suggestion. They're both lazy excuse givers and I gave up trying to please them a long time ago, now I'm just trying to do things on my own. I recently took over my own phone bill and I'm attempting to put myself through school. I also will move out once I turn 18 under whatever financial circumstances...

Anyways, yea, the only option I see working out now out of all of your responses is getting a car from a private seller and forgetting about the insurance part.

Wow, these posts are hilarious. Just face it, your parents are under-educated in insurance, you don't have enough money to afford a car under any circumstances, and you thinking driving without insurance would be a good way to spite your parents shows your immaturity and supports the idea you currently do not need a car. It's called public transportation, for $55 bucks a month you can get an unlimited ride pass in my city.

With the path you're on right now you are going to be broke and bankrupt.

[Hummer]

Wow, these posts are hilarious. Just face it, your parents are under-educated in insurance, you don't have enough money to afford a car under any circumstances, and you thinking driving without insurance would be a good way to spite your parents shows your immaturity and supports the idea you currently do not need a car


What?

The car I want is my dad's '83 Lincoln Town Car that sits on the street and collects dust (he does pay insurance for it as it is parked on the street). I'd like to buy it from him, but no I can't because he wont sell it to me.

Why I said I'd lease a car is because say the list price of a lease is like 200 bucks a month, I'd say that in reality it would come out to 400 bucks a month and $300 a week is currently my pay at my limited hours. But anyways insurance rates are 700 bucks a month for that car and they are the same for a brand new car according to the quotes I've received from companies. Plus I'd rather a leased car because I wont own it unless I feel like buying it at the end of the lease.

I'm glad you say I'm immature, because you really know how I live the rest of my life. I am completely "straight edge" and have been a good student/out of trouble completely up until this point. I would say I'm acting pretty immature at this moment, but am not overall an immature person.

I am also glad that you say I don't need a car. Maybe you should work at the DMV and assess people's life stories to see if they are eligible for a license as theres currently no mental test to receive one.

[rhsgolfer33]

I'm glad you say I'm immature, because you really know how I live the rest of my life. I am completely "straight edge" and have been a good student/out of trouble completely up until this point. I would say I'm acting pretty immature at this moment, but am not overall an immature person.

I am also glad that you say I don't need a car. Maybe you should work at the DMV and assess people's life stories to see if they are eligible for a license as theres currently no mental test to receive one.

Hey kid, you posted this on a public form for people to comment on, so don't get your panties in a bunch when you get a load of negative comments after saying you're just going to drive without insurance. You're sounding like a huge spoiled whiner that's used to getting what he wants and in this case cannot have what he wants. You really don't need a car in Queens, NY and you currently can't afford to have one, so you might want to starting trying to get over it, that would be something a person of the maturity you claim to be would do. If there's one thing I hate it's kids whining about how terrible it is that they can't or don't have a car.

[Hummer]

Hey kid, you posted this on a public form for people to comment on, so don't get your panties in a bunch when you get a load of negative comments after saying you're just going to drive without insurance. You're sounding like a huge spoiled whiner that's used to getting what he wants and in this case cannot have what he wants. You really don't need a car in Queens, NY and you currently can't afford to have one, so you might want to starting trying to get over it, that would be something a person of the maturity you claim to be would do. If there's one thing I hate it's kids whining about how terrible it is that they can't or don't have a car.

I wasn't whining or getting my panties in a bunch, I was defending myself. I could sit here and call you an a-hole (I am not at all calling you an a-hole) and I'd expect you to go and defend yourself no matter what the conversation was about.

But see when it comes to my case I don't want anything given to me. I'm actually working for it and I'd be footing 100 percent of the bill. I'm simply asking my parents to help me out by adding me to their insurance so I wont have to pay so much as 700 dollars a month. They're not giving me anything except for the ability to use their already established insurance reputation to lower my rate. I mean if you want, compare it to going shopping. Do you spend your hard earned money on an item you know you can save 400 bucks on just because you can't get a coupon at the moment, but you know there is a possibility to find one.

My way of getting over it is by going ahead with driving anyways. Because guess what, I can't have insurance and theres no such thing as financing for kids my age. You have to realize I'm not begging for anyone to give me anything. I never once said I wanted my parents to pay a single dime for anything.

And Queens sucks with public transportation. The 7 is ALWAYS under construction and every train on the Queens Blvd line and Woodhaven line is slow. The A train comes every 30 minutes and the Queens Blvd trains come when they want. The 7 is always operating on a G.O. (General Order) in which there are several re-routes or service suspensions. Forget about the buses. The only decent train is the N. It takes me literally 10 minutes by car to get to school and work, but 45 minutes by train and thats because I have to go all the way around the city on the train in order to get to school.

[TheMonarch]

...My way of getting over it is by going ahead with driving anyways...


And how do you plan on doing that? You won't be able to register your car without insurance, and without that registration sticker on your license plate, expect to be pulled over quite swiftly, especially in NY.

[Hummer]

And how do you plan on doing that? You won't be able to register your car without insurance, and without that registration sticker on your license plate, expect to be pulled over quite swiftly, especially in NY.

Registration sticker on your license plate? What state do you live in?

Edit: Yea...

[teleromeo]

why not get a bike ?

[Hummer]

why not get a bike ?

Because I can't get it to go 20 unless I'm pedaling hard or going down hill. Plus it doesn't work out well with books and winter/spring stormy weather. Also I'd ultimately be made fun at and probably have my bike trashed or tee-peed.

[miloblithe]

It takes me literally 10 minutes by car to get to school and work, but 45 minutes by train and thats because I have to go all the way around the city on the train in order to get to school.

Buy an iPod, or read a book.

[yg17]

I still have yet to figure out what you're trying to accomplish with this thread. Without your parents help, there is no legal way for you to purchase, register and insure a car. Even if you bought the car with cash outright, I am pretty sure you need to be 18 to register the car in your name. You're either going to have to convince your parents, or be patient and wait until you're 18, and whining on an internet forum isn't going to change that. At first, I sympathized for you, because I thought your parents were being a bit irrational. Then, as this thread went on, I changed my mind and now support them 100%. All you have shown here is that you are not mature enough to own a car and I can see why they're being so stubborn about helping you out.

Last but not least, if insurance is really going to cost you $700 a month, perhaps you should put away the idea of getting a car. Because that's just a ripoff. And you seem to be forgetting about all of the other costs that come along with a car. Sales tax (mine was almost $2,000 on my new car), registration, repairs, maintenance, gas, parking, tolls (I know the last 2 add up in NYC real quick), etc. You need to take those into account because the car payment and insurance will not be your only expense. And if it were going to cost me over a thousand dollars each month to own a car, you'd bet your ass I'd scrap that idea ASAP and find some other alternate mode of transport. Even if it meant getting called a sissy for riding a bike or spending more time on public transport. Do you really want to spend your entire paycheck on owning a car? What good is having a car if you don't have any money to go hang out with friends, eat out, or buy stuff, and thus, no reason to drive?

[Hummer]

Last but not least, if insurance is really going to cost you $700 a month, perhaps you should put away the idea of getting a car. Because that's just a ripoff. And you seem to be forgetting about all of the other costs that come along with a car. Sales tax (mine was almost $2,000 on my new car), registration, repairs, maintenance, gas, parking, tolls (I know the last 2 add up in NYC real quick), etc. You need to take those into account because the car payment and insurance will not be your only expense. And if it were going to cost me over a thousand dollars each month to own a car, you'd bet your ass I'd scrap that idea ASAP and find some other alternate mode of transport. Even if it meant getting called a sissy for riding a bike or spending more time on public transport. Do you really want to spend your entire paycheck on owning a car? What good is having a car if you don't have any money to go hang out with friends, eat out, or buy stuff, and thus, no reason to drive?

One, I don't plan on buying a car at least not buying one from a dealership. If anything I'd buy a car from a private owner, have it transferred over as a gift and then cash under the table.

Secondly, yes I know 700 bucks is a ripoff which if why I'm not paying it.

Thirdly, I make enough to splurge my whole paycheck into a car.

Fourthly, yes I would put my entire paycheck into owning a car. I already put my whole check into cabs everywhere I go because I don't want to take public transportation.

Fifthly, I work/school all the time so I don't have time to hang out with my friends except at my job where I can work and have them with me at work at the same time.

[yg17]

One, I don't plan on buying a car at least not buying one from a dealership. If anything I'd buy a car from a private owner, have it transferred over as a gift and then cash under the table.

Um, that's also ILLEGAL and just as dumb as driving without insurance.

[Hummer]

Um, that's also ILLEGAL and just as dumb as driving without insurance.

Who hasn't paid cash to avoid sales taxes on big purchases? Well I haven't made any big really big purchases, but I don't know anyone who hasn't done that. I can't remember the last time I haven't heard that if a buyer pays cash they get a discount. I can see how its dumb though, but a VIN check and a look over the car should do. I used to hang around my dad at his friend's automotive shop. I'd watch him do everything to diagnose car problems from when I was a little kid to even now.

[miloblithe]

I already put my whole check into cabs everywhere I go because I don't want to take public transportation.

The only problem with instant gratification is that it doesn't come soon enough, eh?

[TravisReynolds]

last time i tried to get a loan it didn't work and I'm 17

[CalBoy]

I already put my whole check into cabs everywhere I go because I don't want to take public transportation.

You live in NYC right? Where public transit is very available (and not excessively pricey compared to the rest of the country)?

Why do you hate public transit so much? And, why, of all places, would you want to drive in NYC? Don't you have enough stress in your life? ;)

As for sinking your entire paycheck into the car, I advise against it. What happens when the unexpected happens (ticket, accident, etc)?

[LethalWolfe]

Who hasn't paid cash to avoid sales taxes on big purchases?
Yeah, that's an apple to apples comparison.:rolleyes:

The more you post, the more you seem to prove your parents right.


Lethal

[Rodimus Prime]

You live in NYC right? Where public transit is very available (and not excessively pricey compared to the rest of the country)?

Why do you hate public transit so much? And, why, of all places, would you want to drive in NYC? Don't you have enough stress in your life? ;)

As for sinking your entire paycheck into the car, I advise against it. What happens when the unexpected happens (ticket, accident, etc)?


I agree with that last statement. The one thing you can count on is the Unexpected happening. It sucks if you do not have the funds to cover it and have to struggle to get by.

I learn from experince losing 1k in college which was 50% of my savings at the time. That I could afford. It was 2 years later in my last semester that I was short funded and low and behold I got a speeding ticket. You have no idea how much it sucks when now you have to figure out where you are going to get another 100 bucks when you where already trying to figure out how you where going to get by.

[heehee]

What happens when the unexpected happens (ticket, accident, etc)?
Well, it looks like he wont be driving anymore if he gets a ticket since he doesn't have insurance. I dont know what the law is in NY is, but it's a minimum $5000 fine for driving without insurance here.

OP, you really need to grow up. What if you hit someone and they broke their arm or something, how are you going to pay for their medical bills? You really want your parents to lose their home so you can get your way? Suck it up and take the bus or buy a used car so you can afford insurance, princess. :rolleyes:

[rdowns]

I have to agree with those who are dumping all over the OP. Grow up kid and get over it. I grew up in Queens and getting anywhere was pretty easy.

This seems appropriate...

http://chicagoist.com/attachments/chicagoist_alicia/286100~Portrait-of-Baby-Crying-Posters.jpg

[DJJONES]

You live in NYC right? Where public transit is very available (and not excessively pricey compared to the rest of the country)?

Why do you hate public transit so much? And, why, of all places, would you want to drive in NYC? Don't you have enough stress in your life? ;)

As for sinking your entire paycheck into the car, I advise against it. What happens when the unexpected happens (ticket, accident, etc)?

damn right.
i was born in queens and raised in brooklyn, getting around is a breeze.
with gas prices the way they are i wish where i live currently there were public transportation.
im 18 drive a 06 dodge ram 2500 and costs around 200 a month to keep filled.
keep in mind the only places i go is to the gym and picking my mom up from work.
that could easily change if i has places to go regularly along with a job easily 125 a week.

personally if i was the op i would save that money until i could offcially afford to pay for the car and isurance instead of taking a loan out.

[Sun Baked]

For people that have high insurance, looking at a used Mercury or Buick might be something to do.

Heck getting a beater Mercury Grand Marquis will likely get you a vehicle with cheap repairs, and something that'll last 200k when it is abused. And much more with care. And they depreciate like a rock and much faster than the lower end Ford.

Besides the fuel, anything else usually ends up costing more in insurance and repairs.

Heck even a $6k Grand Marquis 03-04 with 75k is a good bet and likely to cost less over the next 75-100k miles than a lot of new cars. Heck, can probably find them with fewer miles for about the same price, since they are as hard to give away as SUVs right now.