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View Full Version : Mac Mini's are a joke!




aaquib
Mar 19, 2008, 02:41 PM
I used my friend's iMac and it was just so sweet, I want a mac really badly now. Too bad, Im only 14 and cant spend over $1000 on a computer. I looked at the Mac mini and $600 for 1.83ghz, 1gb ram, 80gb HDD, no monitor, keyboard or mouse.

I did some researching and in the flyer for Best Buy for $100 cheaper at $500, and had 2ghz, 2gb ram, 320gb HDD, monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers. How can Apple justify charging thsi much????

I want a mac, but hell no Im not getting blindly ripped off. Has anybody heard anything about a refresh, because this is almost as pathetic as $600 for a 20" monitor...



roland.g
Mar 19, 2008, 02:43 PM
Actually the Mini is a great computer in a very small form factor. If you don't like the specs, don't get one. You can easily find a refub iMac or a used iMac on Craigslist or eBay for sub-$1k.

psychofreak
Mar 19, 2008, 02:43 PM
The possibility of imminent updates is on the front page.

notjustjay
Mar 19, 2008, 02:48 PM
The mini may well be a decent little computer, but if I was in the OP's position I would save a touch more and buy a MacBook or an iMac. Especially from the refurb store, you can save even more.

Cave Man
Mar 19, 2008, 03:09 PM
I want a mac, but hell no Im not getting blindly ripped off. Has anybody heard anything about a refresh, because this is almost as pathetic as $600 for a 20" monitor...

It's not a joke, it's just that you have very little imagination.

Q-Dog
Mar 19, 2008, 04:04 PM
My one week old Mac Mini would beg to differ. It's not a gaming machine, but I'm not a gamer. I'm not editing epic movies on it, though it can do some editing. I'm running Final Cut Express on it with no problems yet.

This machine plays downloaded videos, music and DVDs beautifully. AND it's quiet! Perfect for a bedroom or living room. This one is a great replacement for the G4 tower that was loudly whirring away in the corner of my bedroom. I already had a flat panel TV in my bedroom that can work as a computer monitor, so this was really a no-brainer. I can do picture-in-picture TV while I'm checking e-mails or working on web pages with this setup. So far, the only thing I can't do that I might like to do with this machine is record TV into the computer. Oh well.

The Mac Mini is tiny, easy to hide and did I say quiet? Its the perfect machine for me right now.

VoodooDaddy
Mar 19, 2008, 04:34 PM
I did some researching and in the flyer for Best Buy for $100 cheaper at $500, and had 2ghz, 2gb ram, 320gb HDD, monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers. How can Apple justify charging thsi much????



/fail

That POS you are looking at for $500 doesnt run OSX.

munckee
Mar 19, 2008, 04:34 PM
IIm only 14...

Really? :rolleyes:

ryannel2003
Mar 19, 2008, 06:35 PM
If you want a Mac, Apple sells refurbished 17" Core 2 Duo iMac's all day long for $849. They also sell the lower end model with Intel graphics for $700.

treasurefinder
Mar 19, 2008, 06:40 PM
I used my friend's iMac and it was just so sweet, I want a mac really badly now. Too bad, Im only 14 and cant spend over $1000 on a computer. I looked at the Mac mini and $600 for 1.83ghz, 1gb ram, 80gb HDD, no monitor, keyboard or mouse.

I did some researching and in the flyer for Best Buy for $100 cheaper at $500, and had 2ghz, 2gb ram, 320gb HDD, monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers. How can Apple justify charging thsi much????

I want a mac, but hell no Im not getting blindly ripped off. Has anybody heard anything about a refresh, because this is almost as pathetic as $600 for a 20" monitor...

Apple can justify this because Mac OS X requires half as much memory and 70% CPU speed to perform the same functions as Vista. Also, the aluminum case and small form size own.

Silver-Fox
Mar 19, 2008, 06:40 PM
your 14 and the only thing you can think of buying is a mac mini :rolleyes:

do you even need one?

4DThinker
Mar 19, 2008, 06:44 PM
It's not a joke, it's just that you have very little imagination.I think the OP is right on. It doesn't require imagination, only a little math skill to realize how a new Mini is not a good deal.

I was happy when the Mini I went to buy wasn't in stock, and I ended up with an iMac. The OP wasn't complaining about how bad the Mac OS is or how bad Apple is, etc. He was complaining that to him the form factor wasn't worth the price. He still want's a Mac. That's plenty of imagination.

Noobish
Mar 19, 2008, 06:55 PM
I think the OP is right on. It doesn't require imagination, only a little math skill to realize how a new Mini is not a good deal.

I was happy when the Mini I went to buy wasn't in stock, and I ended up with an iMac. The OP wasn't complaining about how bad the Mac OS is or how bad Apple is, etc. He was complaining that to him the form factor wasn't worth the price. He still want's a Mac. That's plenty of imagination.

That's how I took it as well. He wasn't bashing Macs, just the value of the mini. It is a little disheartening.

n1ght
Mar 19, 2008, 06:55 PM
The lower end PC counterparts are way larger. The Slimline models from HP and Dell are approximately 11x the volume. They also use more power and aren't nearly as quiet.

The pre-configured models in stores also don't come with Wi-fi adapters, Bluetooth adapters, and some models don't even have Firewire 400. In exchange, they have bigger 7200rpm HDDs, DVD burners standard, more RAM, and some have dedicated graphics cards. It depends on needs, really.

killmoms
Mar 19, 2008, 07:01 PM
I used my friend's iMac and it was just so sweet, I want a mac really badly now. Too bad, Im only 14 and cant spend over $1000 on a computer. I looked at the Mac mini and $600 for 1.83ghz, 1gb ram, 80gb HDD, no monitor, keyboard or mouse.

I did some researching and in the flyer for Best Buy for $100 cheaper at $500, and had 2ghz, 2gb ram, 320gb HDD, monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers. How can Apple justify charging thsi much????

I want a mac, but hell no Im not getting blindly ripped off. Has anybody heard anything about a refresh, because this is almost as pathetic as $600 for a 20" monitor...

It's more expensive to miniaturize a design. I'm willing to bet that ad in the Best Buy flyer was for a conventional minitower.

Comparing like to like is the first step towards meaningful price comparisons. Anything else is... spurious, at best.

Cave Man
Mar 19, 2008, 07:01 PM
I think the OP is right on. It doesn't require imagination, only a little math skill to realize how a new Mini is not a good deal.

You're mistaken, too.

Mini has a nice footprint.
Mini is energy efficient.
Mini takes a matte display.
Mini is usually silent.
Mini runs home theaters extremely well.
Mini is a great deal - certainly better than any WinPC you could find.

acrahm
Mar 19, 2008, 07:16 PM
can final cut pro work on a 1.82 or 2.0 mac mini without problems?

My one week old Mac Mini would beg to differ. It's not a gaming machine, but I'm not a gamer. I'm not editing epic movies on it, though it can do some editing. I'm running Final Cut Express on it with no problems yet.

Cave Man
Mar 19, 2008, 07:20 PM
Sure. FCP runs on a G4, so it should be just fine on a Mini. I have FCE and it doesn't have any issues at all.

BrianKonarsMac
Mar 19, 2008, 07:27 PM
can final cut pro work on a 1.82 or 2.0 mac mini without problems?

I (like you) am too lazy to actually look at the system requirements but he is talking about Final Cut Express...not pro.

Regarding the Mac Mini, I imagine it will be the next in line for an update which will probably bring it into the 2+ ghz range and probably an improved integrated graphics card...not a huge deal but when your spending your whole budget I'm sure you want the most bang for your buck.

You can find tons of ****** computers for ~$500...but they are ****** computers. They will be bare bones pc's that never match the capability of the Mini nor have a robust productivity suite like the mini in the form of iLife/Work. You will get the most basic of keyboard and mouse combos as well as the lowest end monitor possible. Convince your parents that your eyes are valuable and you need a monitor that won't force you into wearing glasses by the age of 18. Maybe you can get it for your birthday/religious holiday or for doing well in school? Worked for me at your age.

edit: I am inclined to agree the mini is not worth its price currently compared to other options out there. Although you'd have to pay me alot of money to willingly use Windows OS over OS X.

Cave Man
Mar 19, 2008, 07:29 PM
I (like you) am too lazy to actually look at the system requirements but he is talking about Final Cut Express...not pro.

FCP will run fine. Issues will occur with FCS because some of the other apps (Motion, Shake) leverage the gpu. Since the gpu on the Mini doesn't have its own vRAM it becomes a bottle neck for such apps.

FF_productions
Mar 19, 2008, 07:43 PM
The next Mac Mini will be a minor bump, just like all the Mini bumps.

It's really only meant if you already have the display, keyboard, and mouse. By the time you tally all those up with a Mini, you mine as well get an iMac.

That's why I say, get a G5 iMac, something used, get into the Mac experience.

I started out with a G3, it really wasn't that bad. I couldn't do anything in real-time with DV footage in Final Cut but still could have been used for rough cutting.

Have a talk with the parents and tell them you are looking to invest in a Mac. Find a good deal, if you need help just ask us. IN your case, I'd say a G5, if you got enough money, go Intel.

A G4 would even work dare I say, but people here will crap on you for getting one.

clyde2801
Mar 19, 2008, 08:00 PM
I used my friend's iMac and it was just so sweet, I want a mac really badly now. Too bad, Im only 14 and cant spend over $1000 on a computer. I looked at the Mac mini and $600 for 1.83ghz, 1gb ram, 80gb HDD, no monitor, keyboard or mouse.

I did some researching and in the flyer for Best Buy for $100 cheaper at $500, and had 2ghz, 2gb ram, 320gb HDD, monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers. How can Apple justify charging thsi much????

I want a mac, but hell no Im not getting blindly ripped off. Has anybody heard anything about a refresh, because this is almost as pathetic as $600 for a 20" monitor...

1. apple refurbed page
2. ebay
3. craigslist

SkyBell
Mar 19, 2008, 08:11 PM
The mini is a great deal if you already have a a keyboard, mouse and monitor (I did from my previous POS Hewlett Packard) and I got the high-end mini. Sure, the iMac may be a better deal for some, But at the time I didn't have the use for a laptop, and I liked being able to pick up my computer with one hand easily, use my own monitor, and be able to fit it into my spare pocket on my backpack so I could go to friends house after school and not have to use a PC.

Bottem line, the mini is definitely not for everyone, but for your average user, it does all it needs to do, and then some (FCE, Photoshop, etc.)

VoodooDaddy
Mar 19, 2008, 08:27 PM
The folks that have commented on the size of the mini compared to your typical Windows box are right on the money. Yes, if you look at JUST SPECS from one to the other the mini might seem overpriced. Although that crap Windows tower wont run OSX. But then look at the SIZE of the mini compared to that tower. Thats definitely worth something to me.

Leon Kowalski
Mar 19, 2008, 08:36 PM
Comparing like to like is the first step towards meaningful price comparisons.
Anything else is... spurious, at best.

The OP was obviously looking for an "entry level" OS-X machine -- I'll bet he
doesn't give a rat's rump about 'like to like' comparisons or matching Apple's
quirky packaging. $850 with keyboard, mouse, and AppleCare is extremely
high for a 1.83 GHz CPU with 1GB ram and a dog-slow 80GB notebook HDD.

...OTOH, it's 'cute' -- like most of Apple's form-before-function hardware,

LK

VoodooDaddy
Mar 19, 2008, 08:41 PM
The OP was obviously looking for an "entry level" OS-X machine -- I'll bet he
doesn't give a rat's rump about 'like to like' comparisons

But you CANNOT compare ANY entry level Windows box with the mini. NONE of the towers will run OSX. I know, youll find some reason to say Im wrong or short sighted, I expect it from you.

bc008
Mar 19, 2008, 08:42 PM
Of course, with this being a mac-oriented forum, you are going to get a somewhat biased oppinion. With me being only 14 as well, I understant how money is a problem. Maybe a mac isnt for you? Dells are actually very nice for your price range (700+), as well as vaios. Of course, those will not have the same life expectancy of a mac. Have you thought of constructing your own hackintosh? You could make a very nice one for your price. Also, dont loose hope on the refurb store/ebay/macofalltrades.com etc.

With my $.02 over, now lets get to the point that matters. Mac Mini's are pretty!

puma7
Mar 19, 2008, 11:07 PM
I agree. The mini at the current price is not a good deal whatsoever. You can get a better PC with a monitor, keyboard, and mouse for $100 less than that. Now, if you BUILD it, you can go even further...

the mini is just not worth the price.

aristobrat
Mar 19, 2008, 11:08 PM
I agree. The mini at the current price is not a good deal whatsoever. You can get a better PC with a monitor, keyboard, and mouse for $100 less than that. Now, if you BUILD it, you can go even further...
You can make that same point about ANY Mac that Apple sells.

GimmeSlack12
Mar 19, 2008, 11:12 PM
I want a mac, but hell no Im not getting blindly ripped off.

Amen kid.
Now get lost.

Cave Man
Mar 19, 2008, 11:29 PM
I agree. The mini at the current price is not a good deal whatsoever. You can get a better PC with a monitor, keyboard, and mouse for $100 less than that. Now, if you BUILD it, you can go even further...

the mini is just not worth the price.

Can you point us to this "better" PC?

mcavjame
Mar 19, 2008, 11:40 PM
I love my mini, but it does not meet the spec for FCP. The specs state that integrated Intel video cards are not supported.

While the earlier models of mini had dedicated video cards, they did not support quartz extreme; another requirement of FCP.

I run FCP at work on a G5 tower and even that beast chugs along with some of the complex renders and high res encodings.

Cave Man
Mar 19, 2008, 11:46 PM
I love my mini, but it does not meet the spec for FCP. The specs state that integrated Intel video cards are not supported.

Can you point to where you saw that?

mcavjame
Mar 20, 2008, 12:01 AM
Can you point to where you saw that?

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/EducationIndividualCanadaCustom.woa/91404004/wa/PSLID?mco=7E50FEF9&nplm=MA886Z/A&wosid=HI45Nv5IAsuh2tNJJ62125uwc2e

SkyBell
Mar 20, 2008, 12:08 AM
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/EducationIndividualCanadaCustom.woa/91404004/wa/PSLID?mco=7E50FEF9&nplm=MA886Z/A&wosid=HI45Nv5IAsuh2tNJJ62125uwc2e

That's for FCS, not FCP.

mcavjame
Mar 20, 2008, 12:18 AM
That's for FCS, not FCP.

Ok... here it is again for FCP 5. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301576
Let's not play the version game. FCS includes FCP6.

SkyBell
Mar 20, 2008, 12:22 AM
Ok... here it is again for FCP 5. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301576
Let's not play the version game. FCS includes FCP6.

Where exactly on that page does it say integrated graphics are not supported?

mcavjame
Mar 20, 2008, 12:23 AM
Where exactly on that page does it say integrated graphics are not supported?

It requires AGP graphics and quartz extreme. This support article talks about video cards on an AGP or PCI express card with FCP5- http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303405 . To my knowledge there is not a mini that meets that standard, but that does not mean it is unavailable. I suppose if you could find a Mac Mini that met both of those requirements you could manage to get it to run.

The fact is, I was referencing FCP 6 (which is part of FCS2). The OP did not specify which version of FCP they intended to run. Perhaps they have an old version with lesser specs.

chrono1081
Mar 20, 2008, 12:44 AM
What people fail to realize is that your comparing a macs specs to a windows machine specs. Macs with lower specifications will run faster then windows machines with higher specs. A 3 year old mac pro at school was killing my brand new higher speced windows machine when it came to photoshop/lightroom/after effects.

zjokke
Mar 20, 2008, 05:51 AM
As a veteran Mac user, I agree with the OP. I'll NEVER buy a PC, but being on a small budget myself and only buying a new Mac every 5-7 years, I want the best I can get for my money. At this time, the Mini just isn't. Sure it's a Mac which is a great plus. Sure, it looks nice and is very small, super! But it has the same damn ******** intel processor you can find in cheap PC's. It has the same HD, CD/DVD, ... as in a PC. Actually, it is a PC in a pretty Mac box with the addition of some chip that makes it capable of running OS X!
At this time, the price of the Mini is just way too much because of the outdated specs.
I for one am convinced that when the updated Mini gets finally launched (IF Apple will do so - which to me still isn't certain although I would deeply regret it if Apple would kill the Mini), I will not be a MINOR update. It can't be. Reason: Intel pulled the plug on the Merom processor, so they need a Penryn processor which needs a Santa Rosa platform and this platform will very likely bring the X3100 graphics. It is highly unlikely Apple will keep 802.11n out of that update since they are moving to the n wireless on all their platforms. And a slightly bigger HD and maybe even bigger standard memory size are very common in an update. IF(!) Apple brings us the update, this will be very likely it. I would not call that a minor update. Definitely worth it's price again and worth waiting for if you can. :rolleyes:

4DThinker
Mar 20, 2008, 08:52 AM
You're mistaken, too.

Mini has a nice footprint.
Mini is energy efficient.
Mini takes a matte display.
Mini is usually silent.
Mini runs home theaters extremely well.
Mini is a great deal - certainly better than any WinPC you could find.
Very good for Cave Man thinking. I notice you don't seem to have a WinPC. As such your ability to logically and reasonably compare is broken. I've owned everything from a Timex Pocket PC to a TI-99/4A, the original IBM PC, and a dozen or more DOS then Windows desktop PCs since then. I'm on my 6th notebook. I also own an iMac, which I think was a good deal for what I paid. Come back when you've evolved.

Cave Man
Mar 20, 2008, 09:08 AM
Very good for Cave Man thinking. I notice you don't seem to have a WinPC.

Actually, I have one in my lab. It runs an instrument and makes the lab uglier.

As such your ability to logically and reasonably compare is broken.

Go back and reread the OP. He's claiming that his $500 Best Buy PC makes the Mini a "joke".

I've owned everything from a Timex Pocket PC to a TI-99/4A, the original IBM PC, and a dozen or more DOS then Windows desktop PCs since then. I'm on my 6th notebook.

Thanks for the personal history lesson, it was most helpful...

I also own an iMac, which I think was a good deal for what I paid.

And that's great for you. It's unfortunate that yours and the OP's limited imaginations cannot understand the value of the Mini.

Come back when you've evolved.

And you're scientifically illiterate, too?

et it if Apple would kill the Mini), I will not be a MINOR update. It can't be. Reason: Intel pulled the plug on the Merom processor, so they need a Penryn processor which needs a Santa Rosa platform and this platform will very likely bring the X3100 graphics. It is highly unlikely Apple will keep 802.11n out of that update since they are moving to the n wireless on all their platforms. And a slightly bigger HD and maybe even bigger standard memory size are very common in an update. IF(!) Apple brings us the update, this will be very likely it. I would not call that a minor update. Definitely worth it's price again and worth waiting for if you can. :rolleyes:

Yes, if Apple updates the Mini and doesn't kill it, it will be a MacBook in a Mini's enclosure.

The fact is, I was referencing FCP 6 (which is part of FCS2). The OP did not specify which version of FCP they intended to run. Perhaps they have an old version with lesser specs.

I've seen posts elsewhere of people installing FCP5 on their Minis. They've used Firewire drives for capture. I don't see why FCP6 can't also run on a Mini. Has Apple added code to it such that it uses the gpu for some of its routines? When I bought Aperture (1.0.2) it was listed as needing a dedicated gpu with its own vRAM, but it installed and ran fine on my Mini (although I had to use Pacifist to install it).

VoodooDaddy
Mar 20, 2008, 09:37 AM
Very good for Cave Man thinking. I notice you don't seem to have a WinPC. As such your ability to logically and reasonably compare is broken.

Are you kidding me? Because a guy doesnt have a Windows pc his opinion is not valid? I guess mine in not valid either since I no longer have a winpc. I had one for 10+ years, but I havent for the past 2. Guess that invalidates my opinion on anything also.

I did have a mac mini though, does that count for anything? :rolleyes:

Globetrotter
Mar 20, 2008, 09:39 AM
Yes, if Apple updates the Mini and doesn't kill it, it will be a MacBook in a Mini's enclosure.

without the screen, of course :D :eek:

and losing the combo drive would help bring Apple into 2006 :p

statler
Mar 20, 2008, 09:47 AM
I don't know why people are jumping down the original poster's throat.

Yes, Mac Mini is a nice machine and yes it has a niche in the marketplace and yes there are certain inherent advantages a Mac has over a PC.

All that said, the Mini is long overdue for an update -- even an modest one. It is the only Mac in the current lineup that doesn't have 802.11n. It can only "officially" take 2GB RAM (unofficially 3GB). And the hard drive options are behind the times.

Apple will update the mini soon and then people on this board will be bragging about how much power it has and how much bang for the buck you get. Apple's update cycle is always "lumpier" than the PC world because it is only one manufacturer whereas you have dozens of companies introducing Windows PCs on a regular basis. When we are near the next update cycle the product almost always appears a bit long in the tooth versus the PC competition.

Does this mean that you shouldn't buy a Mini now if you want one? Not necessarily. That depends on your needs, your budget, and your patience. Does it mean that if you already own a Mini you made a mistake or your self-worth is somehow diminished? Of course not. When it comes to computers, love the one you're with!

But I personally find it a bit irritating when people ignore the realities of the computer market, where "faster, cheaper, better" is the law of the land. The mini is a nice little machine, but it will be a much nicer little machine when Apple updates it sometime this spring. I hope they do it sooner rather than later. ;)

mcavjame
Mar 20, 2008, 09:56 AM
I've seen posts elsewhere of people installing FCP5 on their Minis. They've used Firewire drives for capture. I don't see why FCP6 can't also run on a Mini. Has Apple added code to it such that it uses the gpu for some of its routines? When I bought Aperture (1.0.2) it was listed as needing a dedicated gpu with its own vRAM, but it installed and ran fine on my Mini (although I had to use Pacifist to install it).

Yeah... I suppose that works if you are not using the elements that require the discrete video card.

Let me just say I would not want to be the editor that has to use a mini/FCP 6 set up. My students struggle with 2 yr old iMacs running FCP 3. Maybe newer versions are optimized better, but the reality is FCP is a pretty demanding app. Trying to force an install against recommendations or requirements is just asking for frustration. I already have no hair and can't afford the aggravation.

Globetrotter
Mar 20, 2008, 10:04 AM
I don't know why people are jumping down the original poster's throat.

Yes, Mac Mini is a nice machine and yes it has a niche in the marketplace and yes there are certain inherent advantages a Mac has over a PC.

All that said, the Mini is long overdue for an update -- even an modest one. It is the only Mac in the current lineup that doesn't have 802.11n. It can only "officially" take 2GB RAM (unofficially 3GB). And the hard drive options are behind the times.

Apple will update the mini soon and then people on this board will be bragging about how much power it has and how much bang for the buck you get. Apple's update cycle is always "lumpier" than the PC world because it is only one manufacturer whereas you have dozens of companies introducing Windows PCs on a regular basis. When we are near the next update cycle the product almost always appears a bit long in the tooth versus the PC competition.

Does this mean that you shouldn't buy a Mini now if you want one? Not necessarily. That depends on your needs, your budget, and your patience. Does it mean that if you already own a Mini you made a mistake or your self-worth is somehow diminished? Of course not. When it comes to computers, love the one you're with!

But I personally find it a bit irritating when people ignore the realities of the computer market, where "faster, cheaper, better" is the law of the land. The mini is a nice little machine, but it will be a much nicer little machine when Apple updates it sometime this spring. I hope they do it sooner rather than later. ;)

I think you have touched on a couple of quintessential points here; namely, that Apple is unfairly being compared to the rest of the field, and that their product life cycle is perhaps deviant from that seen in traditional models.

But I also agree that the Mini needs an update, or a price reduction as of *now*, although I cannot see the latter happening.

I have always wondered what 'Apple market research' tells corporate the Mini should be for, since there could be a model in either direction of current prices (with adjusted specifications).

Peace and God Bless!

Cave Man
Mar 20, 2008, 10:30 AM
I don't know why people are jumping down the original poster's throat.

The reason is because of the OP's inflammatory and inaccurate title of this thread.

Noobish
Mar 20, 2008, 11:38 AM
The reason is because of the OP's inflammatory and inaccurate title of this thread.

How can an opinion be inaccurate? It seems that you're just such a fanboy you can't deal with a dissenting opinion.

I like Macs. I plan on buying a Mini when they are updated, but I too think that the current price and configuration are a joke. Sorry if that riles you up.

clyde2801
Mar 20, 2008, 11:42 AM
...Come back when you've evolved.

Me is eevulved...

How can an opinion be inaccurate?

Couldn't agree more! Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to start up a new thread entitled "Macs all suck, and so do all of you!" :D

err404
Mar 20, 2008, 11:55 AM
Cave Man is right ( if not a bit partial ) ;)
The mini uses all Laptop components allowing it to be very quiet and power efficient. However this comes at a cost. The mini has a higher price is largely due the components just costing more then their desktop equivalents.

The performance is hindered somewhat by a laptop grade system bus and slower/smaller hard disk. Consequently it's not for everyone. Thats said the real world responsiveness will be at least equal to the PC you listed.

But for me the noise level and power requirements are very important since I have it running 24/7. At 14 these thing probably don't matter to you, but the power efficiency will more then recover the increased cost over 2 years.

Cave Man
Mar 20, 2008, 12:01 PM
How can an opinion be inaccurate?

Had s/he said "In my opinion..." or some such, then s/he might have been off the hook. But she didn't.


It seems that you're just such a fanboy you can't deal with a dissenting opinion.

Here's what s/he said:

I did some researching and in the flyer for Best Buy for $100 cheaper at $500, and had 2ghz, 2gb ram, 320gb HDD, monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers. How can Apple justify charging thsi much????

But then does not tell us everything about this cheap win box, only the things s/he thinks are important. This apparently led to his/her statement that Minis are a "joke".

I like Macs. I plan on buying a Mini when they are updated, but I too think that the current price and configuration are a joke. Sorry if that riles you up.

At least you intimated that it was your opinion. If you want to go buy a $500 or $800 win box, good for you. But OP doesn't really understand what the Mini is.

Cave Man
Mar 20, 2008, 12:33 PM
Ok, let's just get it all out in the open. As usual, the Winbox is better in some respects and worse in others. Here are the lesser qualities of this $530 computer from Best Buy (eMachines T5246):

It has analog audio (vs. Mini's digital optical audio)
It has analog video (vs. Mini's DVI)
It doesn't have wifi (vs. Mini's 802.11g)
It has 100mbps ethernet (Mini has gigabit)
It doesn't have Bluetooth (vs. Mini's BT2.0)
It doesn't have firewire (Mini does)
It doesn't have an IR remote (Mini does)
It doesn't have Vista Ultimate (more similar, but substantially less capable than Leopard)
It doesn't have 64-bit addressing (Mini does)
It's limited to 2 gb RAM (Mini is 3.1 gb)
It only has 512 kb cache/core (Mini has 2 mb/core)
It cannot act as a wireless router (Mini can)
It has MSWorks (Mini has iLife, Front Row, iCal, Address Book, Safari, Mail)

If you think that PC's a better computer, then knock yourself out.

anti-microsoft
Mar 20, 2008, 12:36 PM
I used my friend's iMac and it was just so sweet, I want a mac really badly now. Too bad, Im only 14 and cant spend over $1000 on a computer. I looked at the Mac mini and $600 for 1.83ghz, 1gb ram, 80gb HDD, no monitor, keyboard or mouse.

I did some researching and in the flyer for Best Buy for $100 cheaper at $500, and had 2ghz, 2gb ram, 320gb HDD, monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers. How can Apple justify charging thsi much????

I want a mac, but hell no Im not getting blindly ripped off. Has anybody heard anything about a refresh, because this is almost as pathetic as $600 for a 20" monitor...

Do you want a desktop? If not, you can get a MacBook for a tiny bit over $1000...

VoodooDaddy
Mar 20, 2008, 02:28 PM
Ok, let's just get it all out in the open. As usual, the Winbox is better in some respects and worse in others. Here are the lesser qualities of this $530 computer from Best Buy (eMachines T5246):

It has analog audio (vs. Mini's digital optical audio)
It has analog video (vs. Mini's DVI)
It doesn't have wifi (vs. Mini's 802.11g)
It has 100mbps ethernet (Mini has gigabit)
It doesn't have Bluetooth (vs. Mini's BT2.0)
It doesn't have firewire (Mini does)
It doesn't have an IR remote (Mini does)
It doesn't have Vista Ultimate (more similar, but substantially less capable than Leopard)
It doesn't have 64-bit addressing (Mini does)
It's limited to 2 gb RAM (Mini is 3.1 gb)
It only has 512 kb cache/core (Mini has 2 mb/core)
It cannot act as a wireless router (Mini can)
It has MSWorks (Mini has iLife, Front Row, iCal, Address Book, Safari, Mail)

If you think that PC's a better computer, then knock yourself out.

CaveMan FTW! :D

Globetrotter
Mar 20, 2008, 02:34 PM
Ok, let's just get it all out in the open. As usual, the Winbox is better in some respects and worse in others. Here are the lesser qualities of this $530 computer from Best Buy (eMachines T5246):

It has analog audio (vs. Mini's digital optical audio)
It has analog video (vs. Mini's DVI)
It doesn't have wifi (vs. Mini's 802.11g)
It has 100mbps ethernet (Mini has gigabit)
It doesn't have Bluetooth (vs. Mini's BT2.0)
It doesn't have firewire (Mini does)
It doesn't have an IR remote (Mini does)
It doesn't have Vista Ultimate (more similar, but substantially less capable than Leopard)
It doesn't have 64-bit addressing (Mini does)
It's limited to 2 gb RAM (Mini is 3.1 gb)
It only has 512 kb cache/core (Mini has 2 mb/core)
It cannot act as a wireless router (Mini can)
It has MSWorks (Mini has iLife, Front Row, iCal, Address Book, Safari, Mail)

If you think that PC's a better computer, then knock yourself out.

Really? Do you have any more information on this?

aaquib
Mar 20, 2008, 02:35 PM
Hey guys,

Ive read all of your responses and to be clear, Im not hating on the Mini, I just can't justify it. I want to, so badly, get into the OSX world(legally, not hackintosh), but I care about specs. Im currently using a Toshiba PoS laptop with 1gb ram, and it just sucks. I have iTunes, Safari and MS Word open and the PoS just doesn't respond.

So I need atleast 2gb of RAM. That's $700 for the Mini. Second, I need a lot of hard drive space. I have tons of TV shows(24 seasons take up about 50gb!) and 80gb is pretty measly. A 160gb HDD to the mini would be $100 extra. Or if I wanted a 500gb external one, that's also $100 at Best Buy. So that's $800 for the Mini. And at $800 I still can't burn DVD's, or get a keyboard or mouse or monitor.

Guys, I really want one, but Im a 14 year old that just fell in love with Macs but can't afford one. Any suggestions? I looked in the Apple refurb store and they charge $650 for a 1.66ghz Mini with 512mb ram. I called them to ask if it was a mistake and the guy on the phone said no, it has a superdrive. So $50 more to get half the ram, a slower processor, and a refurbished product?!?P!

PS Does processor speeds from 1.83ghz to 2.0ghz make a noticeable difference?

VoodooDaddy
Mar 20, 2008, 02:40 PM
Just because you cant afford it doesnt mean its not worth it. Sometimes you just have to live within your means.

Cave Man
Mar 20, 2008, 02:46 PM
Really? Do you have any more information on this?

1. Connect your Mini to your DSL/Cable modem by ethernet cable.
2. Turn on Airport card.
3. Turn on Internet Sharing from your Airport card. Provide a password for others who want to join the network.

Cave Man
Mar 20, 2008, 03:16 PM
So I need atleast 2gb of RAM. That's $700 for the Mini. Second, I need a lot of hard drive space. I have tons of TV shows(24 seasons take up about 50gb!) and 80gb is pretty measly. A 160gb HDD to the mini would be $100 extra. Or if I wanted a 500gb external one, that's also $100 at Best Buy. So that's $800 for the Mini. And at $800 I still can't burn DVD's, or get a keyboard or mouse or monitor.

Stock Mini sans DVD burner: $600
Acer X193W+BD Black 19" Widescreen LCD Monitor : $175 (New Egg)
2 gigs RAM - $48 (New Egg)
500 gig Mybook Firewire; $140 (Best Buy)
Logitech Classic Keyboard 200; $14 (New Egg)
Logitech NX20 3 button optical wheel mouse; $13 (New Egg)

Total = $990

You can knock off about $30 if you go with a USB2-only external drive (slower). If you really need to burn DVDs, then buy a smaller external drive and spend the difference on a USB burner (about $50 to $60).

PS Does processor speeds from 1.83ghz to 2.0ghz make a noticeable difference?

I'd bet serious money that the 1.8 gHz Mini is faster than that AMD 2.2 gHz (because of its design and 4x cache size).

Leon Kowalski
Mar 20, 2008, 03:41 PM
Sure, it looks nice and is very small, super! But it has the
same damn ******** intel processor you can find in cheap PC's.
It has the same HD, CD/DVD, ... as in a PC.

No, actually it doesn't have the same HD. In their eternal
quest for cuteness, the form-before-function 'stylists' of
Cupertino saddled the mini with an anemic notebook HD.

Notebook drives are much slower, much smaller capacity,
and much less reliable than Real™ disk drives...

...OTOH, they are twice as expensive,

LK

err404
Mar 20, 2008, 04:35 PM
I looked in the Apple refurb store and they charge $650 for a 1.66ghz Mini with 512mb ram. I called them to ask if it was a mistake and the guy on the phone said no, it has a superdrive. So $50 more to get half the ram, a slower processor, and a refurbished product?!?P!


Check the refurb store every few days. I bought a 2.0ghz, 1G RAM, 120G HD with SuperDrive from them a month ago for $679. At the time this was the only one in stock. I think the problem with the Apple refurb store is that they base the price on the original MSRP, not relative to the current products. The machine is is flawless condition and performs very well.

You mention that running MSWord, iTune and Safari being sluggish with 1G? I run all that while encoding DVD's in the background with HB and streaming content to my Apple TV with no noticeable sluggishness on performance. Granted if you get into real video or image editing you will want more. If money is an issue I'd recommend sticking with 1G initially and if you find that you need a performance boost, upgrading to 4G (3.1G) when you have some cash to blow.

(Was this MSWord 2004 or 2008? The 2004 release is sluggish on most Intel Macs because it has to emulate a PPC processor. MSOffice 2008 is a native Intel app)

iMpathetic
Mar 20, 2008, 04:58 PM
This thread is amusing....


Say more stupid things!:D

czachorski
Mar 20, 2008, 05:16 PM
No, actually it doesn't have the same HD. In their eternal
quest for cuteness, the form-before-function 'stylists' of
Cupertino saddled the mini with an anemic notebook HD.

Notebook drives are much slower, much smaller capacity,
and much less reliable than Real™ disk drives...

...OTOH, they are twice as expensive,

LK

Funny how Apple designs for form over function, and yet they still function better than Win PCs.

iMpathetic
Mar 20, 2008, 05:20 PM
Funny how Apple designs for form over function, and yet they still function better than Win PCs.

It looks like someone's been eating ROFL waffles!

Yeah, and to the poster who czachorski quoted, "saddling" the mini with an "anemic" notebook HD has nothing to do with cuteness.

The freakin' thing is the size of a 3.5" disk...... Duh.

HLdan
Mar 20, 2008, 05:24 PM
But you CANNOT compare ANY entry level Windows box with the mini. NONE of the towers will run OSX. I know, youll find some reason to say Im wrong or short sighted, I expect it from you.

You are absolutely right, I hate when people compare the Mac to what's in the PC world. If you want a PC go that way, there's no law against it.

Now on the other hand you should only look at what Apple's offering and not what some other company is offering and the Mac mini the way it is right now IS NOT A GOOD DEAL.
I'm quite disappointed in Apple charging so much for so little in the mini. I've never been thrilled that there's been no keyboard and mouse included (as cheap as they are) and the mini should have much beefier specs for the price it is so I understand how the OP feels but keep the PC comparisons out it doesn't help.

The price the top mini is right now it should contain:
2.4 Ghz Penryn
2GB Ram
200GB 7200 HDD
8400GS GPU

MacSA
Mar 20, 2008, 05:40 PM
The OP is totally correct. And in my opinion the Mini is most most over priced piece of computer hardware on the planet right now. GMA 950..COMBO DRIVE!!! WTF? Can you even buy one of those anymore? Apple most practically get them for free.

Noobish
Mar 20, 2008, 05:43 PM
The price the top mini is right now it should contain:
2.4 Ghz Penryn
2GB Ram
200GB 7200 HDD
8400GS GPU


Now that is a Mini I would buy. It's not going to happen though.

tjohanne
Mar 20, 2008, 05:46 PM
It's not a joke, it's just that you have very little imagination.

The cheapest Mac Mini costs 954 US$ in the official Apple store of Norway.
Now, that IS a joke... a really big joke.

All other PC shops and manufacturers compete on price and make good offers. Apple goes the other way. I mean, why pay 954 bucks for the mac mini specs.. 954 bucks and you don't even get a dvd-burner. Is Steve Jobs evil or something?

I love the Apple computers, but these prices make me sad.

Krafty
Mar 20, 2008, 05:46 PM
Wish I could get a mini. I need a desktop computer with a large screen.

mags631
Mar 20, 2008, 05:51 PM
You are absolutely right, I hate when people compare the Mac to what's in the PC world. If you want a PC go that way, there's no law against it.

Now on the other hand you should only look at what Apple's offering and not what some other company is offering and the Mac mini the way it is right now IS NOT A GOOD DEAL.
I'm quite disappointed in Apple charging so much for so little in the mini. I've never been thrilled that there's been no keyboard and mouse included (as cheap as they are) and the mini should have much beefier specs for the price it is so I understand how the OP feels but keep the PC comparisons out it doesn't help.

The price the top mini is right now it should contain:
2.4 Ghz Penryn
2GB Ram
200GB 7200 HDD
8400GS GPU

That would be great (more is more), and I would buy a new Mini to replace my current one if they came out with that. But, I disagree fundamentally that the mini is way over-priced -- its form factor makes a difference in its production cost, and that must be considered. You can get a sense for the cost by comparing similar small-form-factor Window PCs -- you'll find that the mini is priced relatively cheaply to those (see here (http://www.cappuccinopc.com/) for example).

My analysis of this issue is that those who look at the mini as an entry-level machine feel it is too expensive. Those who look at it as a small-form-factor machine feel that machine is worth its price. Seems like both may be right depending on which criteria they are using.

Silver-Fox
Mar 20, 2008, 05:59 PM
To solve this problem don't get one....wait till you have more money and buy a macbook or an imac

Krafty
Mar 20, 2008, 06:08 PM
To solve this problem don't get one....wait till you have more money and buy a macbook or an imac
http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/nowai-42443.jpg

Silver-Fox
Mar 20, 2008, 06:12 PM
This is getting way out of control lol

bplein
Mar 20, 2008, 07:34 PM
Ive read all of your responses and to be clear, Im not hating on the Mini, I just can't justify it. I want to, so badly, get into the OSX world(legally, not hackintosh), but I care about specs.

If you want to compare specs, then you have to avoid comparing dogs to cats (I'm avoiding the Apples to Oranges comparison at the moment).

Question: Two vehicles. One has a 5.4 liter V8, the other has a much less powerful 1.1 liter inline-4. Which is faster?
Answer: The second one. It's a motorcycle.

See, specs don't tell you the whole story. A year ago my desktop at home was a AMD64 X2 dual core machine, very fast. While I played a lot of games over the years, gaming was less and less important. In June I got a MacBook Pro, and I've simply stopped using the AMD desktop, even though it's a lot faster.

I have a Mac Mini as a HTPC, and it's fantastic. If I had to use a desktop at work, for email and basic apps, I'd be happy with a Mac Mini or an iMac, either would be great. But I'm lucky to have a second MBP, this one is work-owned.

So really you need to determine what apps are most important, and what else is important, and build around that. For my HTPC, quietness was key, and Front Row fits my needs at the moment, so a Mac Mini was perfect.

gkarris
Mar 20, 2008, 07:39 PM
This thread is a joke...

Feed the troll...

will792
Mar 21, 2008, 08:53 AM
Actually most of the heated discussion is caused by a huge hole in Apple products line; a headless machine that is less expensive and smaller than Mac Pro. If you rule out iMac (do not want integrated screen) and Mac Pro (too expensive, too high power consumption, too large and so on) your only choice is Mac Mini. It is a niche product that does not match most people requirements. Since it does not match they complain. In other words many people need product B but the only choices are A and C. Neither one of A and C matches their requirements.

I cannot understand why Apple can produce every possible combination of iPod, including models that seem to be similar but cannot create a Mac that is smaller, cheaper version of Mac Pro. This was rehashed hundreds of times in this forum and others. Unfortunately Apple never addressed this market. It is a brilliant company but very a arrogant one. The needs of customers are not taken into consideration for the products development. They know better than customers themselves what is needed. If your needs match what Apple came up with you are in luck, if not you are screwed and destined to go to dreadful PC land.

ryannel2003
Mar 21, 2008, 09:59 AM
Last night Apple had a refurbished 1.83GHz Core Duo Mac mini with a SuperDrive on the Apple Store for $479. Keep an eye out on the refurb store, as they usually have really great deals later at night.

mcavjame
Mar 21, 2008, 10:24 AM
Last night Apple had a refurbished 1.83GHz Core Duo Mac mini with a SuperDrive on the Apple Store for $479. Keep an eye out on the refurb store, as they usually have really great deals later at night.

I had this deal in my cart to use as a media center. Then I realized that by the time I upgraded the RAM and considered that it was core Duo, rather than core 2 duo, it would be better to get the 1.83 new without the SD.

ipodtouchy333
Mar 21, 2008, 02:24 PM
Actually most of the heated discussion is caused by a huge hole in Apple products line; a headless machine that is less expensive and smaller than Mac Pro. If you rule out iMac (do not want integrated screen) and Mac Pro (too expensive, too high power consumption, too large and so on) your only choice is Mac Mini. It is a niche product that does not match most people requirements. Since it does not match they complain. In other words many people need product B but the only choices are A and C. Neither one of A and C matches their requirements.

I cannot understand why Apple can produce every possible combination of iPod, including models that seem to be similar but cannot create a Mac that is smaller, cheaper version of Mac Pro. This was rehashed hundreds of times in this forum and others. Unfortunately Apple never addressed this market. It is a brilliant company but very a arrogant one. The needs of customers are not taken into consideration for the products development. They know better than customers themselves what is needed. If your needs match what Apple came up with you are in luck, if not you are screwed and destined to go to dreadful PC land.

I totally agree. I am in the hunt for my first mac and want something pretty powerful but can't afford a mac pro. I kinda want another lcd screen or even a cinema display and so I'd be left with the mac mini. I don' want to pay $800 for that, I'm sorry. I guess I'll have to go with a blackbook.

czachorski
Mar 21, 2008, 04:17 PM
I totally agree. I am in the hunt for my first mac and want something pretty powerful but can't afford a mac pro. I kinda want another lcd screen or even a cinema display and so I'd be left with the mac mini. I don' want to pay $800 for that, I'm sorry. I guess I'll have to go with a blackbook.

The base 20" iMac seems like it would be perfect for you. Pretty powerful, with a big LCD to boot. At $1199, it seems like a fair value.