Panther FileVault Troubles?

[MacRumors]

In the wake of PowerBook Display issues (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031102233505.shtml) and Panther Firewire issues (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/10/20031030212254.shtml), some customers are also being affected (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=77&e=1&u=/mc/20031103/tc_mc/filevaultproblemscontinueapplesoswoes) by the adoption of FileVault - Apple's on-the-fly file encryption.

According to the article (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=77&e=1&u=/mc/20031103/tc_mc/filevaultproblemscontinueapplesoswoes), the problem appears when FileVault asks to "reclaim lost disk space in the encrypted directory".

After this, data from Safari, Address Book, the Dock, Mail and Keychain can be affected, leading to an unstable system. Apple reports being aware of the issues and is investigating reports.

Related: Ongoing thread (http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?14@162.zTSRaGwyi5Z.10@.599b98e4) at Apple's Discussion Forum.

[Computer_Phreak]

Maybe Apple should do a more thorough beta testing. This is getting quite embarrasing, no? :(

[iHack]

Could a damaged keychain lead to being locked out of your filevault? I guess, if that's the only place your key word is stored (besides one's typically not too accurate head). Doesn't sound like a pleasant bug to me...

M.

[Frisco]

Apple should be investigating their Quality Control Department. Something is wrong.

[Freg3000]

Seems as though there are quite a few problems with 10.3. Perhaps 10.3.1 will be released soon. FileVault appears to have the largest problems.

[chicagoboy]

I actually was one of the first to discover a major problem with Panther and Final Cut Express. If you have your scratch disk (i.e. your video clips) in your home folder and you encrypt home folder with FileVault, it will prevent playback of digital video. The video stream is trying to play but is also being decrypted as it "leaves" the home folder. This can't be done with these computers. Too much computing power needed. Apple should have known this in advance. I called minutes after I installed and encrypted and found the problem on the first Panther release day. (Oct. 24) I think the same problem applies with imovie.

I bought an Apple to avoid these issues and I've spent more time on the phone with AppleCare than in the first 2 months of owning my G5 I thought I would in 3 years! Now my ne Epson printer won't work with 10.3! What a nightmare.

P.S. I was just about to buy a Firewire 800 External drive on Oct. 31 when Firewire Direct told me about the Oxford 922 chipset problem with Panther. It seems all manufactures have fixed this problem but sheeesh! What next?

[voicegy]

That's why I didn't get OS X when it first came out, nor Jaguar when it first came out, nor Panther...always wait for the fixes, and let others jump ahead and flail.

[Rower_CPU]

I've had no issues with FileVault on a clean install.

10.3 was widely seed tested by developers and others. Unfortunately, it seems they rushed the latest builds to make the 10/24 date. Like Freg, said, we should see an update soon.

[electric]

I personally learned from the 1.2.8 debacle, I will never update right away, nor will I buy new hardware right away no matter who makes it. I am getting more and more of an “if it aint broke, don’t fix it” attitude

[SiliconAddict]

I hate to say this but there is a reason why MS posts release candidates 6 months to a year in advance of release. I honestly don't remember this many problems with the internal apps, security is another matter, and features when 2K and XP came out.
This is more then a little embarrassing for Apple. Maybe its just me but this smacks of something being rushed to market in time for X-mas and winter sales. I'm somewhat glad now that I'm not getting a Mac until next summer at the earliest. Hopefully they can work out the bugs by then. :(

[iHack]

Originally posted by voicegy
That's why I didn't get OS X when it first came out, nor Jaguar when it first came out, nor Panther...always wait for the fixes, and let others jump ahead and flail.

Ah, the selflessness, the solidarity! I guess the only folding you do is your laundry (or does your wife do that).

M.

PS. ;) I don't fold. Never. Not when competing, not with laundry not with my computer. But I do like to try out software. I only use Windows ME! And I never back-up anything! Live life on the edge! The feeling that my data is never safe give me a permanent adrenaline rush!! wheeheeeeee!! I'm risking the final draft of my PhD thesis as I type this!! Years of hard w*&%# &^








*BSOD*

[bivaughn]

I've had most of these problems due to FileVault. The son of a bitch even corrupted my iTunes library, losing 3 years worth of playlists, ratings and playcounts. Ugh. Turning off FileVault and deleting a bunch of prefs files fixed things, though.

[JoeMacDaddy]

:confused:
Now is the time for Apple to get a firm grip on Panther and the issues that have come up since its début. Evidently, it should have undergone more beta testing and companion product testing (e.g. LaCie). I am very much an Apple Acolyte and want them to do well. Much of Panther works well it just is not exhibiting the typical Apple sheen. I switched to Apple to gain elegance, style, and stability in a powerful operating system. Constant bugs and patches are for those who see their life through a dirty cracked windowpane. Let us hope they pull it all together quickly.
:confused:

[DrGruv1]

I'm glad I didn't try file vault, with such hoopla about the release and the count down, it makes these issues worse.

I hope they will learn and do a better job during the beta test.

It seems as though we are getting the run around... "apple is investigating" "some users have reported" it seems that apple doesn't want to admit the mistakes or take the responsibility for them.

If I had a 15" powerbook with white splashes on the screen, I would be very upset.

They need to pay attention to the end users, (my wife and I have 5 macs in our house now) we're buying their future products.

A still loyal mac user, but a bit disappointed.

[TheWitePony]

I kept getting the same messages too...."File Vault needs to change the size of your directory whatever"...got them probably every other restart. I just turned off File Vault, gonna wait till they fix this before I turn it back on.

Another interesting bug, wonder if anyone else has noticed this...when using Backup Beta 2 and trying to backup files in an encrypted home directory you get an error saying that the selected drive is on a network and is unreachable for backup. After decrypting my home directory and trying backup again it works fine.

Hope Apple fixes this soon...encryption is a cool feature, but it's only cool if it works. I don't like the idea of being locked out of my own data.

[Doctor Q]

Just hearing the phrase "Panther FileVault Troubles?" brought fear to my heart. I was already afraid to try it because one glitch in the code could make all umpteen trillion of my files unusable. I'll continue to avoid it until everyone else is happy with it.

[bidge]

Does anyone really need filevault or are people just playing with it for fun.

What's the point, woohoo lets protect all my files, ahhh flag

kinda ironical, there to protect files but it does the opposite

[Quobobo]

Originally posted by chicagoboy
I actually was one of the first to discover a major problem with Panther and Final Cut Express. If you have your scratch disk (i.e. your video clips) in your home folder and you encrypt home folder with FileVault, it will prevent playback of digital video. The video stream is trying to play but is also being decrypted as it "leaves" the home folder. This can't be done with these computers. Too much computing power needed. Apple should have known this in advance. I called minutes after I installed and encrypted and found the problem on the first Panther release day. (Oct. 24) I think the same problem applies with imovie.

Seriously, I don't think it's Apple's fault that you couldn't forsee problems with decrypting and playing/editing video at the same time.

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by bidge
Does anyone really need filevault or are people just playing with it for fun.It definitely has valid uses. Without it, anyone with his/her hands on your Mac hardware can makes copies of all of your files. Your login password is protection only against other regular users, not from someone with root privileges or with an installation CD-ROM. Portable Macs are more likely to be stolen, so they especially benefit from FileVault. FileVault lets you choose whether the cost in processor time is worth the extra protection. Because it's done automatically, you aren't supposed to suffer the "convenience" penalty that most encryption techniques entail. So its a great idea, but it has to work perfectly.

[3-22]

Don't forget the users (including me) reporting the CF readers issues with JPGs magically becoming garbled.

Although I think that is more of a G5 issue... Either way I think products have been rushed to market recently...

[foniks2020]

This time Apple was too far ahead of the curve. I tried to start FileVault but I didn't have enough disk space! ;-p I was a little disappointed at first, now I'm glad.

I'm sure they will fix the issues though it might be a 'hack' cause it seems that encrypting the entire Home directory causes too many issues. Maybe they'll let you pick a directory like Documents, though that would leave your mail and keychain, etc files unecrypted... it's quite a conundrum.

[macphoria]

There was the external drive problem, and now FileVault. I'm beginning to think this release was a bit rushed?

[voicegy]

Originally posted by iHack
Ah, the selflessness, the solidarity! I guess the only folding you do is your laundry (or does your wife do that).

I fold as much as you do.:p

[Rower_CPU]

I'm beginning to think I'm the only person w/out FileVault issues. ;)

Quick survey: For those with issues, did you do a clean install or upgrade?

[nagromme]

I'll leave File Vault off on my main machine until this issue is resolved (encrypted disk images will do the trick in the mean time). But I've been using File Vault--and all the affected apps--for a week on my secondary Mac and had no problems. I reclaim space every time it's been offered, with no ill effects.

Edit: for the record, I did an erase and install and THEN copied my mail etc. from backup.

[Flynnstone]

I would prefer that filevault was more of a directory vault istead of a"user" vault. ie not the whole home directory.
More like you can designate a folder to be a vault. Then put the important stuff in there. Kind of like you may do at home or work. You don't live in a vault, the vault is somewhere over there (so to speak)

my $0.02

[JBracy]

It sounds like alot of people don't actually know what FileVault is or does. Try this and you'll see how it works:

1) enable FileVault and allow it to encrypt your data
2) restart from install CD and reset password
3) Login.

You'll find that all of your files are gone and you have a clean home folder with a Library folder and a disk image of your encrypted home folder.

In order to access that data you need to know either the master password or your ORIGINAL password.

FileVault has nothing to do with your keychain. It is very secure - to government standards. Apple is going a long way to making the US government take a close look at the Mac. However, unless you are completely paranoid, or actually work for a company/agency that requires this level of security, then it's not worth the aggravation.

[JBracy]

Originally posted by Flynnstone
I would prefer that filevault was more of a directory vault istead of a"user" vault. ie not the whole home directory.
More like you can designate a folder to be a vault. Then put the important stuff in there. Kind of like you may do at home or work. You don't live in a vault, the vault is somewhere over there (so to speak)

my $0.02

You can. Just create an encrypted disk image. That's how FileVault works. The downside being that one of the most important things to be encrypted is a users email - and you can't drag that to a different directory.

[mymemory]

Originally posted by voicegy
That's why I didn't get OS X when it first came out, nor Jaguar when it first came out, nor Panther...always wait for the fixes, and let others jump ahead and flail.

This is why in first place I still with 9.2.2.

How come are you gonna think they are gonna create a problem prof system if is made by the same people that created 9?

The only thing the changed was the interface and some other routing but there will be not difference at the end. I can go back and forward on 9, something I can not do with X.

Today I lost 3 CDs burning on X, something that is very strange on 9.

Let the geeks and the systems amateurs have the hard time with OSX, I will get it in the future when I can find the reability I have with 9 today.

[ITR 81]

I'm using it and have no problems at all. I think alot folks don't know how to use it and this and leading to alot folks freaking out by it. Also folks using it and trying to stream audio or video or file edit(common sense) tells you don't use it or turn it off.
I have 5 friends using it and it works fine for them as well. They just turn it off when they are working with graphics and film and such.

[pbooktebo]

I agree with a previous post that FileVault technology would be more useful to most people if it were able to be deployed to a subset of the user folder.

Who needs their iTunes Library encrypted? Maybe .05%...

Ideal would be an interface like Backup, allowing for mail, documents, or other folders you designate to be encrypted. Knowing nothing of the technical feasibility, this is what I'd want.

Oh, and I do use Filevault, but only with a very limited user account (didn't want to trust it totally yet). I've recorded audio no problem, but not worked with video.

And, eventually, I would LOVE to use FileVault regularly. I am doing educational research, and keep my field notes on my laptop (my only machine), and if it were lost that data could be viewed by others. Not life ending, and I do take some security precautions, but FileVault would give me complete peace of mind. When it's ready for prime time I'll be first in line.

[dobbs]

I specifically bought Panther for filevault as I have a laptop and wouldn't like for my files to get in the wrong hands if stolen.

That said, the bug struck me. I lost my email accounts and all email that had not been moved to a subfolder. Pain in the butt is what it is. This is my first bad experience with Apple since I switched 4 or so months ago. It's a doozy, however.

[greg6028]

I want to see if I understand FileVault BEFORE I get Panther. Am I correct in that you DO NOT have to use FileVault, or does FileVault automatically start itself? I am planning on buying Panther this Thursday, but do not want too if FileVault is a uncontrolable app.

[pbooktebo]

Greg,

When Panther is installed, Filevault is off by default. You would need to manually turn it on (in Security of system preferences) if you wanted to use it.

[greg6028]

Originally posted by pbooktebo
Greg,

When Panther is installed, Filevault is off by default. You would need to manually turn it on (in Security of system preferences) if you wanted to use it.

Thanks!
How is Panther working for you?

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by voicegy
That's why I didn't get OS X when it first came out, nor Jaguar when it first came out, nor Panther...always wait for the fixes, and let others jump ahead and flail.

I have been using Panther since October 24th and have had absolutly no problems with FileVault. I've shut down my computer, restarted it, everything, and all I've gotten is the annoying reclaim data window at shut down and restart. It's annoying because it stops the whole restart or shut down process.

No problems here, loving Panther and FileVault.:cool:

[imbriumink]

Yea. I installed Panther the day it came out and less than a week later I had to do another clean reinstall because filevault had messed up my computer so bad. I lost all my iTunes library info, calendars, and even some notes just before a midterm! I had no idea it was filevault until I connected two and two together. My itunes library kept becoming jibberish when i opened it in textedit to look at what was wrong with it. I then figured it was probably encryption I was looking at. So anyway, I did a clean install again and this time I was careful to leave filevault off.

[prismfinder]

I have done several installs of Panther on several different machines and tried Filevault on all of them. Some notes:

-The problems with Filevault have nothing to do with upgrading vs. clean install

-Filevault losing keychain data does not mean you're locked out of your system, it simply means you have to reset your keychain every time you use it, rendering it completely useless

-It seems that the problems begin to occur when over 50% of the startup volume is consumed by the home folder

-Many of the preference loss issues are random and losing a pref for the dock after one restart does not mean that same pref will be lost if say, the mail prefs are lost after another restart

-"Lost Preferences" does not mean you actually lose data except what data is in the preferences, i.e. losing mail prefs does not mean that your "mailboxes" are lost

-The performance hit you take by enabling Filevault is negligible, even for video and what not, so long as you do large file copy/save/video capture to a directory out side of the home folder (you should probably be doing that on a second hard drive anyway)

That said, all of these problems seem to be the result of certain apps not properly decrypting preference/file data...and it seems that only Apple apps (and a few minor third party apps) are affected. Once all of this gets ironed out, I'll give it another shot on my PowerBook. I don't need a thief having access to my keychain and work-related data.

[pbooker]

Originally posted by Quobobo
Seriously, I don't think it's Apple's fault that you couldn't forsee problems with decrypting and playing/editing video at the same time.

Agreed - especially with Final Cut Express. It's recommended everywhere in the manual that you use a second hard drive (and therefore, most likely not your home directory) as your storage/editing drive.

iMovie is another matter though. Most consumers aren't doing pro editing with iMovie and wouldn't have had a second thought about encrypting their home directory. These types of things (and the idea of encrypting your iTunes directory) should bring up flags in Filevault asking you if you really want to encrypt this data.

[CheekyGit]

Man!! It's 10.0 all over again. 10.4 better be free.

[displaced]

I get the feeling Apple over-sold FileVault.

It's handy in some limited circumstances, where a user's entire datastore must be encrypted. However, for the average user -- and even quite advanced purposes -- it strikes me as a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.

I've yet to test out what I'm about to propose, but it should work...

As many know, it's essentially harnessing OS X's ability to create encrypted disk images. It's been pointed out up-thread that, for example, email is most probably a key area for encryption.

This is how I remember OS X working: create an encrypted disk image, and create an alias to one of the files/folders on it on your desktop. Now, unmount the disk image. Double-clicking the alias should automatically cause the encrypted image to be mounted, and you'll be prompted for the password.

Now, maybe it's possible to put ~/Library/Mail on an encrypted drive, and still automagically let Mail access via the above behaviour? In which case, maybe it's possible to AppleScript the entire process of setting this up?

I feel a search of macosxhints.com coming on...

Ah. Look here (http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20030415132128751&query=encrypt+mail)

Now, if Apple created a warm cuddly front-end to this, surely that'd make a lot of people happy?

Dunno... FileVault just struck me as a really risky thing to try on first-release. Actually, anything that does something to everything sets off alarm bells :)

By the way, I would never suggest that a problem with FileVault is indicative of any intrinsic problems with OS X. The implementation of this feature looks like it leaves a bit to be desired, but there's nothing wrong with the technologies involved. I know it sounds like splitting hairs -- and to the user the end result is the same: bad... but I guarantee there's someone in Cupertino with their head buried in Xcode ironing out the bugs.

Heh. Having said all that, I'm sure the only thing that stopped me turning it on myself was the fact my old iMac might melt if I did... :)

[bivaughn]

Clean install.

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
I'm beginning to think I'm the only person w/out FileVault issues. ;)

Quick survey: For those with issues, did you do a clean install or upgrade?

[X-Baz]

I wonder how much this all has to do with Avie Tevanian being moved upstairs. Recently there seems to have been a number of major issues which simply should not be happening - is Tevanian's replacement going to get yelled at I wonder?

[itsbetteronamac]

DUDE! Apple has tried to hard to rush out it's latest products. They said panther would be out by the end of the year, and there was no reason it couldn't have jsut come out a month later. I love apple, but seroiously spend a little more time on quality control. Apple latest news has started to sound like M$.

-Just my thoughts

[Spades]

This problem bit me. I was using FileVault just fine for awhile. Then one day I tried reencoding some of my music to aac. Basically any file created while the encoding was going on got corrupted. I logged out once after that and lost my preferences. After deciding FileVault was the problem I turned it off, but that fried my keychain. Several apps began to crash a lot after that. I just ended up doing a clean install to fix things.

I prefer FileVault to just an encrypted image since I don't have to think about what I want encrypted and what I don't. It would be nice to be able to selectively turn it off. I don't need encryption for my music or videos, but I do want it for my source code, ssh keys, and documents. All of those go into different directories by default, and some aren't normally visible in finder. Setting up symlinks isn't nearly as easy as FileVault is.

FileVault is a good idea. Too bad the implementation is broken. :(

[digitalbiker]

I have bought 3 powerbooks and 1 ibook over the last 4years. I have a friend that bought 1 iBook and 1 PowerMac G5. Between us every machine except 1 iBook has had problems.

My first PowerBook hinges cracked and paint pealed. My second PowerBook screen failed and power supply burnt out. My third PowerBook the graphics subsystem is all screwy ( it leaves triangles, lines, dirty poxels on screen upon moving screen elements). My friends have had similar problems and most of these occurred within 6 months of purchase.

In addition we have had all of the software bugs and lack of hardware support associated with OS 10.0, 10.1, 10.2, & 10.3.

In the meantime my business has bought 5 Dell Inspiron laptops over the same period. They get carried around, banged around, and abused. None of the Dells have failed. In addition, Windows 2000 and XP have been rock solid and support a much larger subset of peripherals.

Don't get me wrong, I love Apple, OS X, etc. but it really is getting hard to overlook the annoyances of poor Apple QC. Especially when Apple users generally pay more for their hardware and OS.

Greg

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by iHack
Could a damaged keychain lead to being locked out of your filevault?

No. Your FileVault home directory is just an AES-128-encrypted sparse disk image. It can be mounted just like any disk image as long as you can provide the passphrase. If necessary, you can mount the backed-up copy of your home directory image on another computer using that passphrase. (You do have a backed-up copy, don't you?)

Originally posted by bidge
Does anyone really need filevault or are people just playing with it for fun.

I keep scans of all my credit cards on my laptop, front and back. I had a credit card stolen while I was on a business trip one time, and it was a royal pain in the rear to get somebody at home to go to my house, rifle through my files, and get a recent bill so I could call the bank and cancel the card.

I have no intention of letting anybody pick up my laptop, open it, and get my credit card numbers, expiration dates, security codes, and pictures of my signature.

I use FileVault, and I back up my laptop with Retrospect every single day. No problems to report here, but if I encounter any, it'll be trivial to restore my files from my backup.

[1macker1]

will someone start a clean install vs archive install. I have questions to ask, and i dont want to get off topic. (i'm going to get panther this week)

[big]

ok here's my break down....

tiBook w/filevault used, clean install of 10.3.... totally trashed my system, lots of work hours lost

iBook, no filevault, ugrade install, preserving users, no problem EVER.

so, I have reformatted this drive AGAIN and will not use filevault. I think this is the culprit.

[wPod]

before install: backed up EVERYTHING!
dirty install: upgrade. turned on FileVault. ran into problems. lost a lot. glad I backed up.
clean install: installed. turned on FielVault. Everything works. Coppied SOME (less than 1gb) files from backup to New Clean home directory. FileVault works. Restart, shut down, log out, all of the above work. Copy ALL of backed up home directory (10gb ish). FileVault DIES. All problems, AGAIN. Turn FileVault OFF. Restore from Back up. Everything works, with FileVault OFF.

A disapointing story. I would prefer using FileVault because I have a laptop and would not like someone getting ahold of my files should my laptop be stolen. So far I have never had a laptop stolen, so hopefully I wont run into this problem. *knock on wood*

[big]

does file vault protect data if the Harddrive has been removed from your laptop, can someone still crack it?

[tychay]

Originally posted by big
does file vault protect data if the Harddrive has been removed from your laptop, can someone still crack it?

If your password is easily guessed then yes. Else, the answer is no. This is the wherefore in the big red "WARNING" when you turn on FileVault.

FileVault stores your home directory in an AES-128 encrypted (http://csrc.nist.gov/CryptoToolkit/aes/) sparse disk image. This is a standard used for U.S. Government security regulations. This image is decrypted automatically on login (though it appears some have had trouble with this, I'd bet the disk image is still there so I don't know which of these "corruption" complaints are actually true).

Basically if someone were to remove the hard drive, all they would see is a disk image where your home directory would be. This single file is encrypted.

Methinks you should read more about FileVault and AES-128 before using it. Odds are you don't need it. If you do, but aren't required to have it, you should probably create a disk image file (AES-128 encrypted, sparse) with Disk Utility and get familiar with how it works. This might help if something untoward were to happen. Also, always keep backups. If you turn on FileVault on your notebook and don't have a backup of your home directory on your server, I don't think you're going to get much pity from anyone.

To the person using iTunes with FileVault: It is a bad idea to keep your iTunes in your home directory with FileVault, especially if your iTunes library is large.

I recommend putting files such as those in the /Users/Shared folder (I think you can put a symlink or an alias to allow iTunes to still manage them). This way it won't slow your login process or access.

Personally, I haven't installed FileVault, since I didn't trust it. It seems my mistrust was misplaced (posts to this message board notwithstanding).

Does anyone actually have corrupted encrypted disk images? I hear a whole lot of reports of people losing access to their disk image (though in many cases, they aren't aware of it because they don't know how FileVault works), but little of the former.

Take care,

terry

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by tychay
This image is decrypted automatically on login

That's not actually a good way of describing what FileVault does. Instead, it's more accurate to say that all disk access to the encrypted disk image is automatically encrypted (when writing) and decrypted (when reading) when the disk image is mounted. The contents of the disk image are never actually decrypted, in the sense that a plaintext copy of created from the cyphertext. The data is only decrypted when it's loaded into memory.

I recommend putting files such as those in the /Users/Shared folder (I think you can put a symlink or an alias to allow iTunes to still manage them).

Don't use a symlink or an alias. Instead, just go to the iTunes preferences and tell it to use a library folder outside your home directory. It's in the "Advanced" pane, I believe.

[kryten2000]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chicagoboy
[B]I actually was one of the first to discover a major problem with Panther and Final Cut Express. If you have your scratch disk (i.e. your video clips) in your home folder and you encrypt home folder with FileVault, it will prevent playback of digital video. The video stream is trying to play but is also being decrypted as it "leaves" the home folder. This can't be done with these computers. Too much computing power needed. Apple should have known this in advance. I called minutes after I installed and encrypted and found the problem on the first Panther release day. (Oct. 24) I think the same problem applies with imovie

The exact same thing happened to me.After turning on file vault and tried to caputer video inimovie it would just crash.I also tried FC Express and the same thing. It wasnt untill I turned off file vault. Cool idea but I lived without before Panther and I can do so now with it installed.

[Raid]

Originally posted by Macrumors
... After this, data from Safari, Address Book, the Dock, Mail and Keychain can be affected, leading to an unstable system. Apple reports being aware of the issues and is investigating reports.

Well now I know what happend to my address book on my Ti laptop :( (right now Address book just quits on me with out opening anything up). I find it weird that this feature works fine on my desktop though. It has asked me several times to reclaim the space, and I haven't noticed any data missing.

Raid

[Spades]

Originally posted by tychay

To the person using iTunes with FileVault: It is a bad idea to keep your iTunes in your home directory with FileVault, especially if your iTunes library is large.

I recommend putting files such as those in the /Users/Shared folder (I think you can put a symlink or an alias to allow iTunes to still manage them). This way it won't slow your login process or access.


That's not a big deal, but the fact that it happened has me worried about other things. Encoding music looks similar to compiling source code, and source code plus the builds are something that I want to keep in FileVault. But, if doing that has a high chance of corrupting the build, and maybe even the source, I can't risk it.

Lost preferences aside, FileVault comes pretty close to "It works fine, as long as you don't use it." It's disappointing, but FileVault is the first thing on OS X that doesn't "just work" for me. I look forward to using it again once it's reliable.

[ryan]

Not to give Apple a free pass here, but to all of you who have lost data, you did a backup all your important information before updating/installing a new operating system, just like the instructions told you to do, right? And even forgetting moving to a new OS, you do regular backups anyway, right?

[chicagoboy]

Originally posted by Quobobo
Seriously, I don't think it's Apple's fault that you couldn't forsee problems with decrypting and playing/editing video at the same time.


No, I guess you're right, I should have foreseen this issue with Panther and Final Cut Express not Apple. As A matter of fact, I guess we all should have foreseen all the imcompatibility issues with Panther not Apple. I guess I should not rely on Apple being the expert with issues with their own software - I should be the expert. Thanks for setting me straight!

[InsiderTravels]

Originally posted by imbriumink
Yea. I installed Panther the day it came out and less than a week later I had to do another clean reinstall because filevault had messed up my computer so bad. I lost all my iTunes library info, calendars, and even some notes just before a midterm! I had no idea it was filevault until I connected two and two together. My itunes library kept becoming jibberish when i opened it in textedit to look at what was wrong with it. I then figured it was probably encryption I was looking at. So anyway, I did a clean install again and this time I was careful to leave filevault off.


I've been wondering why I've had to trash my preferences folder twice already in less than a week.

I just got a new 17" PB and was having trouble due to a faulty ram chip installed by the reseller (I've had so much trouble with resellers lately, I think I'm going to buy direct from Apple from now on...I know, I'm simplifying a complicated problem, but it makes me feel better at the moment). I was getting kernel panics all the time for no apparent reason.

Well, I finally got a new ram chip to replace the bad one, and my system started running much better.

Unfortunately, one day Safari started getting errors every time I tried to download somthing. The download manager would say "Cannot write file to disk" or something of that nature. Then, Mail kept crashing every time I tried to open it. After I've tried everything else I know to correct the problems and checked every other resource I could find as well, I finally trashed the entire Preferences folder and started over. That didn't make me happy, especially since it always takes forever to re-do all of my preferences.

Then this morning, I wanted to check my schedule for the week to make sure I hadn't forgotten anything important that I needed to do. So, I opened iCal and every single calendar inside was BLANK. There was nothing in it.

Sure, I have a backup of my calendars. It's the one I had before I upgraded to Panther. But that one's over a week old, and everything I've done inside iCal since 10/26 is lost. What a pain.

Now, I didn't lose my mail (at least as far as I can tell, but I have tons of mail, so perhaps some is missing that I just haven't discovered yet), strangely enough.

I haven't yet gotten around to importing my iPhoto and iTunes libraries from my backup drive (that's where I saved everything before doing a clean install to Panther), so I'm not sure if those files would have been affected in my case or not. I have been missing some mail, but I think it's a remote server problem rather than a problem on my local machine that's causing that.

When Mail crashed, though, I did get a peculiar bug reporter message that sent the info to Apple. I guess that's good. The only time I've ever seen a similar bug reporting mechanism is in Safari.

This is really bizarre because ever since I started using OS X two years ago, I've NEVER lost any data -- EVER! It didn't matter how badly I hacked into or mangled up my system (which I haven't even attempted yet on Panther because I've been so busy with other things) before, I could always find my files and they were always perfectly intact. Seems strange that File Vault could screw things up so badly, doesn't it?

[InsiderTravels]

Originally posted by tychay
Also, always keep backups. If you turn on FileVault on your notebook and don't have a backup of your home directory on your server, I don't think you're going to get much pity from anyone.

Does anyone actually have corrupted encrypted disk images? I hear a whole lot of reports of people losing access to their disk image (though in many cases, they aren't aware of it because they don't know how FileVault works), but little of the former.

Ok, some of us don't have the luxury of having more than one computer to play with. I only have one computer, my powerbook. Therefore, I cannot keep a complete replica of my harddrive on another machine (or server, as you've suggested). Hence, my stuff is all on the powerbook. Granted, I have it partitioned and keep a backup of most things on a separate partition; plus I have a slightly less up-to-date backup on a small external hard drive that stays in my home office when the powerbook is out-and-about with me. But that backup is NOT constantly synchronized. My backup calendar files and other data are about a week old, so that doesn't help me much if File Vault has decided to erase my stuff whenever it feels like it.

What I can't figure out is how on earth anyone was supposed to "know" that File Vault was a bad thing to turn on? You get a new-and-improved operating system, install it according to the directions, doing everything just right, but you're supposed to be psychic enough to know that you shouldn't turn on File Vault unless you have your entire home directory replicated on an external server? That's logical.

Nobody's looking for pity here, just a proper fix and a way to figure out what happened to the missing files and hopefully recover them somehow.


Yes, I know how to do many things that programmers know how to do, and I've implemented a lot of them. That said, I do not think that we should have to babysit the machine to make sure it's doing its job properly. What's the point of having anything automated if you have to stand there and watch it to make sure it's not going to screw up? Seems silly to me.

About the encrypted disk images...where do I find those? Are you saying that if I look inside the encrypted disk images, I may find the uncorrupted calendar files and other data that are seemingly missing from my Library folder?

How would I go about doing that? Or is this something I could call Apple support about? I'd really like to get my missing stuff back, unless you think File Vault did an over-write of some kind that will prevent me from ever getting those files back.

None of this is meant to be disrespectful to anybody, really. I'm just frustrated right now because this is the first time I've ever lost anything since I've been using a Mac that I haven't managed to somehow recover on my own. Good thing it wasn't any of my thesis research. That reminds me, I'd better go turn off File Vault right now before something else happens.

I still love my Mac. I just wish some of the posters would quit blaming people for losing their own files. It's just not realistic for everybody to have an up-to-the-second backup of the entire home directory. Sometimes backups are a few hours old, a few days old, or even a week old. It depends on each particular person's resources.

[InsiderTravels]

Originally posted by dobbs
I specifically bought Panther for filevault as I have a laptop and wouldn't like for my files to get in the wrong hands if stolen.

That said, the bug struck me. I lost my email accounts and all email that had not been moved to a subfolder. Pain in the butt is what it is. This is my first bad experience with Apple since I switched 4 or so months ago. It's a doozy, however.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That happened to me too. I lost my mail accounts and other mail settings as well. I didn't lose my saved mail (the stuff I'd moved to sub-directories[mailboxes]), but I did have to start all over with everything else in Mail.

[Quobobo]

Originally posted by chicagoboy
No, I guess you're right, I should have foreseen this issue with Panther and Final Cut Express not Apple. As A matter of fact, I guess we all should have foreseen all the imcompatibility issues with Panther not Apple. I guess I should not rely on Apple being the expert with issues with their own software - I should be the expert. Thanks for setting me straight!

If you're using Final Cut (any version), I think it's safe to assume that you'll be knowledgable enough to realize that decrypting and editing video at the same time could be an issue. This isn't an incompatibility issue, it's a "user really should've thought this through" issue.

[Spades]

Originally posted by Quobobo
If you're using Final Cut (any version), I think it's safe to assume that you'll be knowledgable enough to realize that decrypting and editing video at the same time could be an issue. This isn't an incompatibility issue, it's a "user really should've thought this through" issue.

No, there is no reason that it should be an issue. On the fly encryption like this should be transparent and fast. Yes it will add overhead, but no it will not, or rather should not, cause any issues besides a slight slowdown. Panther is not the first operating system to have encrypted home directories, but it is the first one I've heard of having corruption occuring during normal use.

FYI, in some operating systems it is possible to have the entire file system encrypted.

[big]

>Ok, some of us don't have the luxury of having more than one computer to play with. I only have one computer, my powerbook. Therefore, I cannot keep a complete replica of my harddrive on another machine (or server, as you've suggested)

honestly, that's a waste of disk space.... just get a small FW HD... you could pick up an external one for about $130, or less, or more... its the easiest way to go

[kemck]

I turned FileVault on about 7 days after installing Panther. The result has been a complete disaster.

The first thing that happened was that it corrupted my entire iTunes Music Library and left with a message saying that your "iTunes Music Library seems to be an invalid file".

Trying to restore the music library seemed the right thing to do but whatever FileVault did i it rendered al of the music files downloaded (over 400+) from the iTunes Music Store corrupted. I had to remove those files from my music Library before iTunes would create a valid music Library.

AND....

In addition to that mess; all of my keychain information was lost, preferences lost or reset for everything from applications to my dock.

I am currently going back and checking every document and application to see if they have been affected in any way.

Needles to say, I am have turned off FileVault and feel like the Panther has treated me in much the same way as Roy was attacked!

I can't be alone on this, can you please report the experiences of others to help bring awareness to this problem so that maybe Apple with validate the problem and put in a fix for it OR if nothing else to prevent other unsuspecting Panther converts from turning on this much touted but these this well executed feature in Panther.

Sincerely,

Kevin E. McKenna

FYI:

I am running Panther on a Powerbook 17" with a 1.33 GHz processor &1 meg of Ram

[birishd]

After the I lost everything from File Vault my computer will no longer recognized Audio CDs. Has anyone else had this problem?

[Mr. G4]

How big is your home directory though.
I think FV had problem only with large home directory. I enable FV on my desktop and brand new PB. On the PB I didn't have any problem, however, on my deskstop I lost my iPhoto pictures, MacRumor keep crashing with Safari and still can't turn FV off. :(

Originally posted by TheWitePony
I kept getting the same messages too...."File Vault needs to change the size of your directory whatever"...got them probably every other restart. I just turned off File Vault, gonna wait till they fix this before I turn it back on.

Another interesting bug, wonder if anyone else has noticed this...when using Backup Beta 2 and trying to backup files in an encrypted home directory you get an error saying that the selected drive is on a network and is unreachable for backup. After decrypting my home directory and trying backup again it works fine.

Hope Apple fixes this soon...encryption is a cool feature, but it's only cool if it works. I don't like the idea of being locked out of my own data.

[mcsjgs]

I activated File Vault when I installed Panther. For a week all was well. I stupidly clicked continue at every recover disk space operation. Itunes Library (but not the music thank goodness) got corrupted. All playlists lost, purchased music list lost, a real hassle. Also wiped out dock preferences. This program not ready for prime time.:(

[big]

>MacRumor keep crashing with Safari

That, is just wrong