PDA

View Full Version : Are Apple ads hurting Microsoft's brand?


MacBytes
Mar 20, 2008, 01:27 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Microsoft
Link: Are Apple ads hurting Microsoft's brand? (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20080320142729)
Description:: none

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

Eraserhead
Mar 20, 2008, 01:29 PM
I have to admit the more I use MS products, (recently I've been using ASP.NET/Access), the more I dislike them for their ridiculous flaws.

The seriously bad thing is that even if you report the flaws they come back and proudly claim that they are "By Design" which barely makes it worthwhile :rolleyes:.

anti-microsoft
Mar 20, 2008, 01:29 PM
I wouldn't pay much attention to that, Cnet are Microsoft lovers... End of.

stevearm
Mar 20, 2008, 02:12 PM
I wouldn't pay much attention to that, Cnet are Microsoft lovers... End of.

Oh and this forum isn't filled with microsoft haters and Apple gushers?

Eraserhead
Mar 20, 2008, 02:14 PM
Oh and this forum isn't filled with microsoft haters and Apple gushers?

Well not really, no.

Mindflux
Mar 20, 2008, 02:15 PM
Oh and this forum isn't filled with microsoft haters and Apple gushers?

That's beside the point. He never said we weren't, however CNET claims to offer fair and unbiased views/opinions. Which isn't the case.

mainstreetmark
Mar 20, 2008, 02:17 PM
well, correlation does not equal causation. A fall in Microsoft's rep may only be coincidentally due to the rise in Apple's.

robanga
Mar 20, 2008, 02:28 PM
Like all big companies that have a dominant market share (almost silly dominant in MS's case), you become a target of non-conformity loving individuals every where. Apple has wisely tapped into that in it's marketing.

Microsoft's brand is somewhat stodgy as a consumer brand, and even in business you see less love for the brand and products, than for instance at the time that XP came out.

Xbox has a good brand with consumers, but some quality issues has tarnished that a bit too

On the enterprise size Microsoft has likely reached it's peak, its not going to become a minority anytime soon, but they will face a slow erosion of share on the desktop, mobile computing and servers.

The best thing MS can do is to aquire other brands like Yahoo and build on the success of the past, by reinventing itself as mix of companies and brands. Its strategy needs to become more open and collaborative as well.

iTeen
Mar 20, 2008, 02:29 PM
I sure hope they are...
Microsoft needs to die.

dukebound85
Mar 20, 2008, 02:31 PM
I sure hope they are...
Microsoft needs to die.

i hope youre joking... ms is fundamentally important in the computer industry

robanga
Mar 20, 2008, 02:49 PM
Yes before you wish death on anyone, including a corporation, which in reality is nothing more than a group of somebodies, I'd think twice or three times about it. Not only is there the moral question, but also there is large human impact.

Companies need to constantly reinvent themselves now in order to thrive and ultimately survive. The nature of the open/global economy we play in now, makes it a requirement. Microsoft will have to and Apple will have to sometime again in the future.

Nichod
Mar 20, 2008, 02:50 PM
I personally hate the Mac ads. If I had to choose what to buy by advertising I wouldn't have chosen Mac. I find them as an attack rather than advertising the benefits of a Mac. They were amusing at the beginning, but I think its gotten to a point that they are annoying. We get the point Mac has this and other PC computers don't. Though that also is incorrect since everything a Mac is capable of is possible on any other PC.

I like my Mac though. Things are much more tailored to work on it.

rstansby
Mar 20, 2008, 02:57 PM
I don't think Microsoft needs any help destroying their own image.

Nichod
Mar 20, 2008, 03:04 PM
Microsoft makes some excellent software and hardware. They have no problems in my book. And all the monopoly lawsuits are annoying. For instance the crazy European lawsuit about Microsoft including the Windows Media Player. To me its a witch hunt by the other companies to try and eliminate Microsoft's share just as much as Microsoft is trying to grow their market share share. They aren't an evil company. Just a business trying to keep market share, grow and make money. Just as Apple is doing and does.

We could say Apple has a monopoly on portable music players. And that itunes should be open to all portable music players. I'm waiting on a lawsuit for that ;)

IJ Reilly
Mar 20, 2008, 03:32 PM
Microsoft hurts Microsoft's brand more than any other company possibly could.

Oh, and Apple isn't on the list of top 100 brands!

kockgunner
Mar 20, 2008, 03:39 PM
That's beside the point. He never said we weren't, however CNET claims to offer fair and unbiased views/opinions. Which isn't the case.

well they did give almost all apple's products editors choice awards...

And why is cnet biased? I'm not here to invalidate your opinion, I honestly want to know since, I always looked up to cnet's reviews.

CRAZYBUBBA
Mar 20, 2008, 04:00 PM
No, infact I know many who are actually turned off by apple's ads and the "apple attitude"

elppa
Mar 20, 2008, 04:56 PM
Microsoft makes some excellent software and hardware. They have no problems in my book. And all the monopoly lawsuits are annoying. For instance the crazy European lawsuit about Microsoft including the Windows Media Player. To me its a witch hunt by the other companies to try and eliminate Microsoft's share just as much as Microsoft is trying to grow their market share share. They aren't an evil company. Just a business trying to keep market share, grow and make money. Just as Apple is doing and does.

We could say Apple has a monopoly on portable music players. And that itunes should be open to all portable music players. I'm waiting on a lawsuit for that ;)

You are wrong, the EU cases are not a "witchhunt" Microsoft has a history of dodgy deals, shady tactics, back stabbing partners and anti-competitive practice.

You are also wrong about iPod + iTunes being a monopoly. Apple got to their position by competing a level playing field in a fair and open market. Microsoft went out of their way to be disruptive when establishing Windows and have been abused their position of power on countless occasions ever since.

luffytubby
Mar 20, 2008, 05:23 PM
No, infact I know many who are actually turned off by apple's ads and the "apple attitude"

I know many people who think of Mac users in general as stuck up jerks who think they are better than everyone else.

In a way I can kinda see where they are coming from in some cases. Apple fans should just lie low and be the cool underdog.


Apple would not be Apple if Apple where in Microsofts position. It has benefits sometimes not being the markedleader.


On topic: I hate my XBox 360. I hate that machine. noisy, annoying... just like with windows, its saving grace is the software.

Please Sony.. Please, kill Xbox. Playstation is a powerful brand. I know the PS3 has the potential to kill the Xbox.

tirerim
Mar 20, 2008, 07:12 PM
i hope youre joking... ms is fundamentally important in the computer industry

Not really. Microsoft is only important because lots of people use it. If people stop using it, then they'll be using something else, and it won't be a problem if it dies. It doesn't seem particularly likely, mind you, but there's nothing fundamental about Microsoft's position. There have been other industries where one company, or a small group of companies, had the market cornered and then lost that monopoly, and the industries themselves survived.

rittchard
Mar 20, 2008, 07:32 PM
I actually think the ads are slowly tilting *in favor* of PC. Why? Because in spite of the underlying message, the ad itself makes PC more and more likable (funny, cute, amusing, self-derogatory, etc), whereas Mac Guy is coming across more smug, annoying and arrogant - but worst of all, boring. The first few ads worked great, and I love the actors, but I think the last couple may actually hurt Apple more. Probably time to move to a new ad scheme.

ZiggyPastorius
Mar 20, 2008, 09:44 PM
Please Sony.. Please, kill Xbox. Playstation is a powerful brand. I know the PS3 has the potential to kill the Xbox.

No. Don't. No, and No.

dukebound85
Mar 20, 2008, 10:56 PM
Not really. Microsoft is only important because lots of people use it. If people stop using it, then they'll be using something else, and it won't be a problem if it dies. It doesn't seem particularly likely, mind you, but there's nothing fundamental about Microsoft's position. There have been other industries where one company, or a small group of companies, had the market cornered and then lost that monopoly, and the industries themselves survived.

without ms, the industry wouldnt be where it is today

same with apple

its hard to play whatif's with the past and how it affects the present

G58
Mar 21, 2008, 12:27 AM
i hope youre joking... ms is fundamentally important in the computer industry

Only if you're an IT manager or techie. Otherwise, the industry as a whole would be well rid of M$. Crap products that are difficult to use and easy to break, are unreliable and have massive security vulnerabilities, that the manufacturer is either incapable or unwilling to fix, need service engineers - lots of them.

That was fine - for stupid people - back in the day. But no longer tolerable.

Now, most of you will have put me in your MS hater pigeon hole. Fine. But I don't just hate MS. I loath and detest MS, as I do all bad businesses, of which MS is a prime example and the biggest. When they started chasing Yahoo, the image of a flea-bitten mongrel eating a turd came to mind.

As has already been said, their business tactics since day one have been questionable at best, and criminal at worst. They abuse software developers, push sub-standard products on a worldwide addicted user network like drug barons. This is a matter of record. People really need to study the details before defending Gates and his idiot crew, and knocking Apple with false statements.

Apple has a lot wrong with it. Until recently it's been terrible at providing credible enterprise options - other than for creatives. Generally, it's marketing, particularly in the UK has been lamentable. Customer service has some serious issues.

But Apple definitely does not have a monopoly in the music industry. All that happened is that they negotiated deals that anyone could have negotiated, and grabbed market share that anyone could have grabbed, had they recognized what was happening with Napster, and designed two superb products to coincide with Napster's downfall as a free download service.

The dream ticket of iPod and iTunes is THE single best business lesson of the latter half of the 20th and early 21 Century combined. In marketing terms it's pure genius. But make no mistake, Apple owes it all to that music industry law case that closed down Napster.

The reason MS is crap, is the same reason they are in terminal decline and Apple are grabbing real market share: Even with 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 times as many people employed than Apple, MS could never innovate with any kind of insight into human behaviour or imagination. They never have and they never will. They are a one act show. They lucked out with IBM and rode the same donkey home for three decades.

And if you think that people 'BUY INTO' Apple as a fad or a gimmick, you're not paying attention. Good design used to be the preserve of the rich and the cognoscenti. What has happened is that, ever since the original coloured iMacs, Apple have democratised the ownership of good design. It's that simple. We should all get down on our knees and worship the air Jonathan Ive breathes.

And good design isn't only about what a thing looks like. It's equally importantly about how it works, how well it works and how you use it. Good looks offer you first a face you can trust, and then a style you're proud to be associated with. But without function - all you've got is ornament. Apple provides both better, more often and more consistently than anyone else.

anti-microsoft
Mar 21, 2008, 02:05 AM
NO: Microsoft IS INDEED IMPORTANT! Imagine Apple without a competition! That's why they look so good: Because Microsoft is complete and utter crap!

benlangdon
Mar 21, 2008, 02:08 AM
didn't read the other posts
but

the network thing that was introduced on the new software for the iPhone is built by microsoft.
so...

you know they are not enemies, they did work together before, they are just two of the biggest competition.

winterspan
Mar 21, 2008, 04:53 AM
I have to admit the more I use MS products, (recently I've been using ASP.NET/Access), the more I dislike them for their ridiculous flaws.

The seriously bad thing is that even if you report the flaws they come back and proudly claim that they are "By Design" which barely makes it worthwhile :rolleyes:.

Although I have ridiculed MS for ages now about many things, and I feel they definitely do many anti-consumer, anti-standard, and just downright sleazy things, they have done a lot of good things too. The difference between their consumer line and enterprise/developer products are night and day, at least in some ways.

I think a lot of the general anger and disdain for MS comes from the frustration of windows users who see incompetence and arrogance. I mean look at the disaster of spyware/malware. A large part of the problem was caused by Microsoft trying to dominate the web browser market by turning internet explorer into a proprietary platform, Instead of following the open standards nature of the internet and just competing on merit.
To this end, they starting adding proprietary extensions to internet explorer, the most prominent being ActiveX controls.
Yes, let's give an application who's sole purpose is to connect to other computers a component that allows low-level external code to run inside it with minimally-restricted access to the operating system.
And the rest was history.
After that fiasco, I, along with everyone else, was looking for a major improvement after 5+ years of developing Vista. When that was shown to be a disappointment, I think many had had enough. Enter Apple with all new Intel based systems that could run Windows XP apps along side OSX. What perfect timing!

Still though, despite the letdown of Vista, and the fact that IE in it's 7th iteration STILL does not support web standards, I have to give MS props on Visual Studio and the .NET framework. I've been developing mostly web apps in C# for a few years now, and I love it. Coming from an open source background using scripting languages ala PHP/Perl, C# has been a dream.
I'm really glad to see many open source versions of the .NET framework like the Mono project and Portable.net working to give Linux and OSX a full
implementation of the .NET runtime and supporting libraries.
For those not in the know, .NET is sort of like Microsoft's version of the Java runtime, except it's much faster, more efficient, and can be used with many programming languages. The idea is similar to Java, in that you can write an application once and be able to deploy it on any processor architecture and operating system that is supported by the runtime. Unfortunately, only windows so far has an official runtime, although the Mono project has come quite far to provide OSX and Linux with a version of the runtime. On a related note, boy would I love to see .NET compact framework on the iPhone! woot!

Anyways, I guess my point was that Microsoft has many VERY smart people, and a lot of potential.... I just wish they would get totally new management and a new direction. Throw Balmer under the bus for god sakes! Their recent announcement of a new strategy of pursuing open standards and cooperation with other software companies looks good on paper at least. We'll have to see how that goes.



I personally hate the Mac ads. If I had to choose what to buy by advertising I wouldn't have chosen Mac. I find them as an attack rather than advertising the benefits of a Mac. They were amusing at the beginning, but I think its gotten to a point that they are annoying. We get the point Mac has this and other PC computers don't. Though that also is incorrect since everything a Mac is capable of is possible on any other PC.
I like my Mac though. Things are much more tailored to work on it.

I agree. The first couple were quite funny, but it got old really fast. I hate when companies do that! It's like a good song on the radio....
Although I think Apple has started to change and actually show off products instead of just bashing MS, there are many cool OSX features that should be made into commercials...

Eraserhead
Mar 21, 2008, 05:17 AM
Not really. Microsoft is only important because lots of people use it. If people stop using it, then they'll be using something else, and it won't be a problem if it dies. It doesn't seem particularly likely, mind you, but there's nothing fundamental about Microsoft's position. There have been other industries where one company, or a small group of companies, had the market cornered and then lost that monopoly, and the industries themselves survived.

MS is important, as far too many companies are dependent on their products, if they do badly so do a lot of other companies unfortunately.

The dream ticket of iPod and iTunes is THE single best business lesson of the latter half of the 20th and early 21 Century combined. In marketing terms it's pure genius. But make no mistake, Apple owes it all to that music industry law case that closed down Napster.

It was a good business move, but MS winning the DOS contract for the IBM PC, MS incubating Office on the Mac rather than the more competitive PC, and IBM making System/360 were better business decisions in IT in the 20th century.

And if you think that people 'BUY INTO' Apple as a fad or a gimmick, you're not paying attention. Good design used to be the preserve of the rich and the cognoscenti. What has happened is that, ever since the original coloured iMacs, Apple have democratised the ownership of good design. It's that simple. We should all get down on our knees and worship the air Jonathan Ive breathes.

To be honest Apple machines are still pretty expensive.

And good design isn't only about what a thing looks like. It's equally importantly ... how well it works

Well to be honest I think given the number of problems people I know have with their Apple laptops they aren't really succeeding there.

I have to give MS props on Visual Studio

If you aren't using the express edition like me, you may well be right.

For those not in the know, .NET is sort of like Microsoft's version of the Java runtime, except it's except it's much faster, more efficient, and can be used with many programming languages.

.NET is a hack (e.g. how the functionality to get two drop down boxes to interact in ASP.NET, but it doesn't work with 3).
It is also poorly documented (the Cocoa documentation is miles better, and in some cases (e.g. with an ASP:Label) it is plain wrong).
Not really platform neutral (well its primarily on Windows).
For ASP.NET the debug mode is probably an order of magnitude than it would be in real life, so it is impossible to speed test as you go along.
It also has ridiculous bugs, like in VB CInt crashes when you send it an empty or a stupid string. Yes MS know about this, yes MS thinks this is a good design decision. Even though C has done better for decades and its pretty much the fastest, leanest language that isn't assembler.

MacsAttack
Mar 21, 2008, 08:08 AM
without ms, the industry wouldnt be where it is today


Correct!

I figure MicroSoft have put back the industry by at least 10 years. The damage to the human race at a time when it was undergoing the most rapid technological advancements ever is incalculable. At the close of the 21st Century mankind will look back on the 20th Century an list in the same breath; Hitler, Stalin, Bill Gates. The perpetrators of the most vile crimes against Humanity.

7on
Mar 21, 2008, 09:55 AM
Correct!

I figure MicroSoft have put back the industry by at least 10 years. The damage to the human race at a time when it was undergoing the most rapid technological advancements ever is incalculable. At the close of the 21st Century mankind will look back on the 20th Century an list in the same breath; Hitler, Stalin, Bill Gates. The perpetrators of the most vile crimes against Humanity.

MS only invented paying for software. If it weren't for MS we'd all never pay for software. That would be cruel, all software being free...

killmoms
Mar 21, 2008, 09:57 AM
At the close of the 21st Century mankind will look back on the 20th Century an list in the same breath; Hitler, Stalin, Bill Gates. The perpetrators of the most vile crimes against Humanity.

You know, it's hyperbole like this that gets Mac users painted with the broad brush of "crazy zealot." Seriously, tone it down a bit.

IJ Reilly
Mar 21, 2008, 10:05 AM
MS only invented paying for software. If it weren't for MS we'd all never pay for software. That would be cruel, all software being free...

Where'd you get this idea?

ruckus
Mar 21, 2008, 10:16 AM
Microsoft hurts microsoft's brand...

IJ Reilly
Mar 21, 2008, 11:07 AM
Microsoft hurts Microsoft's brand more than any other company possibly could.

Microsoft hurts microsoft's brand...

I couldn't agree more if I hadn't already said it myself.

dukeblue91
Mar 21, 2008, 11:40 AM
Oh and this forum isn't filled with microsoft haters and Apple gushers?

Not anymore like it used to be.
Things have changed allot here since all the newer people have come over here in the last year or so.
Take a look and see how many people have come here in 2007 and with that the animosity towards MS has changed.
As far as I'm concerned there is way to much talk about Windows here and wished Apple never had come out with Boot camp.
Ahh the good old days, how I miss them.

weckart
Mar 21, 2008, 01:49 PM
For those not in the know, .NET is sort of like Microsoft's version of the Java runtime, except it's much faster, more efficient, and can be used with many programming languages. The idea is similar to Java, in that you can write an application once and be able to deploy it on any processor architecture and operating system that is supported by the runtime. Unfortunately, only windows so far has an official runtime, although the Mono project has come quite far to provide OSX and Linux with a version of the runtime.


I see. In other words a complete waste of time for a so-called portable framework

You know, it's hyperbole like this that gets Mac users painted with the broad brush of "crazy zealot." Seriously, tone it down a bit.

It's worse than that; comparing Gates with Hitler and Stalin only serves to downplay Gates's crimes. How very dare you!

Watabou
Mar 21, 2008, 03:42 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/

There is a new ad it seems on NY Times. Check it out.

benlangdon
Mar 21, 2008, 03:49 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/

There is a new ad it seems on NY Times. Check it out.

hahahah that was great.
i was having a ****** day before this and now..:D

contoursvt
Mar 21, 2008, 06:51 PM
IMO it makes Apple seem childish and not taken seriously by the corporate world. No matter...corporate world doesnt use Apple computers anyway. Usually its a tiny handfull of computers within most organizations and it will likely stay that way. My last place of work we had about 100 windows boxes and 15 Macs and current place of work we have approx 220 windows boxes and 12 Macs.

benlangdon
Mar 21, 2008, 10:12 PM
IMO it makes Apple seem childish and not taken seriously by the corporate world. No matter...corporate world doesnt use Apple computers anyway. Usually its a tiny handfull of computers within most organizations and it will likely stay that way. My last place of work we had about 100 windows boxes and 15 Macs and current place of work we have approx 220 windows boxes and 12 Macs.

ya at my college there is maybe 400+ computers (every room has one and there are 3 computer labs with a enormous amount) and they all come from dell. there are 2 macs i know of and we are not allowed to use them for some reason.

pianodude123
Mar 21, 2008, 10:40 PM
I sure hope they are...
Microsoft needs to die.


No they don't... without proper competition Apple doesn't need to keep researching the latest and greatest products which means we would all still be running os 9 if there was no competition.

Learn how capitalism works.

G58
Mar 22, 2008, 12:20 AM
[QUOTE=Eraserhead;5193384]
It was a good business move, but MS winning the DOS contract for the IBM PC, MS incubating Office on the Mac rather than the more competitive PC, and IBM making System/360 were better business decisions in IT in the 20th century.

There are good business moves and Great business lessons. Selling crap for more than it's worth, and going on to corner the market in crap, could be considered good business moves. But such behaviour delivers short term rewards and is ultimately destructive, both to your customer's businesses, your customers' confidence in you, your customer base, and finally your own company - if you're short sighted enough to go down that road.

I described the dream ticket of iPod and iTunes is THE single best business lesson of the latter half of the 20th and early 21 Century combined, for a very good reason. What isn't being reported, is that the iPod was a T-shirt with Apple on it. iPod was a bunch of balloons, free pens, mugs and mouse mats - again, all with Apple on them - the freebies everyone else hands out like crazy. iPod was also an international endorsement campaign with equal credentials at street level, on famous people and on the screen. iPod was a mobile ad campaign that Apple cost nothing. Instead it made a profit.

Apple asked the impossible:

Take all those things that are in the SPEND side of the balance sheet at the beginning of every traditional push to gain market share and increase profits, and put them on sale - at a premium, and in the process, grab record sales, 80% market share and raise the visibility of our company by a magnitude of millions - billions. And enough of us bought it.

That's why it worked. That's why the dream ticket of iPod and iTunes is THE single best business lesson of the latter half of the 20th and early 21 Century combined - because nothing like it had ever been done before. It shouldn't have worked, but it did.

Okay, I hear you say, that's a hard act to follow. Absolutely right. But remember what they said about iPod? They said the same things about iPhone. They are still saying them. Every day, phone salesmen with terminal halitosis describe iPhone's features as "gimmicks" and describe the LG Viewty and Samsung F700 as: "better featured phones"! WHAT? Read the spec. Use one for two minutes. And then try giving it back!!

But if they can't offer the iPhone to their customers - what else can they say? LG and Samsung are playing catch-up with what they understand: phones, when what they need to be doing is looking at where Apple is going. Everyone needs to be looking where Apple is going.

It's obvious. Apple are of course doing the same with iPhone as they did with iPod. And are set to expand market share into the enterprise with an equally impressive effect. In iPhone, Apple haven't just moved into the phone business, or even just moved into the smart phone business. What they've done is reinvent the portable computer in your pocket - ten years after Steve trashed Gil Amelio's Newton. It's a great tool and it's future is exciting.

G58
Mar 22, 2008, 12:36 AM
No they don't... without proper competition Apple doesn't need to keep researching the latest and greatest products which means we would all still be running os 9 if there was no competition.

Learn how capitalism works.

:-)

I know I started this long-winded, hectoring style here, but the other lesson from what Apple are achieving is that they've succeeded where no-one else has before, and employed tactics never seen before. [See my previous reply to Eraserhead]

They have, in many ways, effectively reinvented the rules of capitalism. To follow the ethos of Steve Jobs' favourite Wayne Gretzky quote: “I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been”, Apple's real competition isn't Microsoft at all. For that to be the case, Vista would have to be much more than a superficially visual copy of Mac OS X. Microsoft would also have be busy inventing new innovative products [not the minority games market and coffee tables!], and reinventing itself entirely as a caring business that actually understands what people want, rather than letting that clown of a follow-on act scream and lie bigger and better than Gates.

No, Apple's real competition is Google and Ubuntu. But that's another story. Most observers won't even be aware that that game is in the fixtures, never mind booked a ticket for the final.

G58
Mar 22, 2008, 12:49 AM
IMO it makes Apple seem childish and not taken seriously by the corporate world. No matter...corporate world doesnt use Apple computers anyway. Usually its a tiny handfull of computers within most organizations and it will likely stay that way. My last place of work we had about 100 windows boxes and 15 Macs and current place of work we have approx 220 windows boxes and 12 Macs.

Yesterday is not an indicator of what will happen tomorrow. This might be a surprise, but it never was.

I know lots of people, including some senior managers and Wall St investors like to pretend that is the case, but trust me, the only thing you can count on is that tomorrow WILL be different.

I'm currently building a company here in the UK that is 80% Mac. The majority of PCs are running UNIX. Windows boxes are only used for evaluation - and they're not connected to the net. All the real costs, from unit life, software, productivity and training are lower. It's a no-brainer really.

One day soon, platform choice will be like smoking - only those companies hooked on a bad habit and advised by IT managers with a vested interest will choose PCs running Windows.

kuwisdelu
Mar 22, 2008, 01:22 AM
One day soon, platform choice will be like smoking - only those companies hooked on a bad habit and advised by IT managers with a vested interest will choose PCs running Windows.

Strange. At first I thought you meant that we'd be free to choose whichever brands we like. Those who don't mind cheap flavor, dangerous additives, and low quality will choose Newports, Kools, Pall Malls, and Virginia Slims, etc., while those of us with any taste will smoke Dunhills, Nat Shermans, Gauloises, or handrolled Bali Shags. Ah, yes, a Mac is the Sabronie of computers ;)

ronipe
Mar 22, 2008, 07:48 AM
I personally hate the Mac ads. If I had to choose what to buy by advertising I wouldn't have chosen Mac. I find them as an attack rather than advertising the benefits of a Mac. They were amusing at the beginning, but I think its gotten to a point that they are annoying. We get the point Mac has this and other PC computers don't. Though that also is incorrect since everything a Mac is capable of is possible on any other PC.

I like my Mac though. Things are much more tailored to work on it.

exactly the same here. :D

chrono1081
Mar 22, 2008, 11:41 AM
And why is cnet biased? I'm not here to invalidate your opinion, I honestly want to know since, I always looked up to cnet's reviews.

If you look at cnet reviews then compare the products they review yourself you will notice some terrible terrible inconsistentcies. Just an example a while back they were rating digital cameras and the sony cameras were rating above canon and olympus cameras. Anyone who knows anything about photography knows that sony usually makes crap when it comes to digital cameras. The models they were reviewing from sony got glowing reviews, these were the same models that when I worked for Circuit city long ago the cameras cnet gushed over had as high as an 80 % return rate due to excessive noise, failing LCDs, etc. This is just a small taste of some of the things cnet does.

To make a long story short certain brands always pop up with favorable reviews even if the item in question is complete garbage. Cnet is almost as bad as consumer reports when it comes to reviews. Both are not good publications in my (and many others) opinions.

Luis Ortega
Mar 22, 2008, 01:27 PM
Not anymore like it used to be.
Things have changed allot here since all the newer people have come over here in the last year or so.
Take a look and see how many people have come here in 2007 and with that the animosity towards MS has changed.
As far as I'm concerned there is way to much talk about Windows here and wished Apple never had come out with Boot camp.
Ahh the good old days, how I miss them.

I suspect that if they had not come out with Bootcamp (or moved to Intel) the Mac forums would still be a very quiet and insular place.
Now if we could only drop all of the OS segregation BS and allow users to buy or build whatever hardware they wished and install whatever OS and software they wished on their machines, we would have a real chance at computer nirvana.

IJ Reilly
Mar 22, 2008, 03:04 PM
I suspect that if they had not come out with Bootcamp (or moved to Intel) the Mac forums would still be a very quiet and insular place.

Well they weren't exactly a quiet and insular place before Intel/Bootcamp. Arguably Apple would not be growing their market share as rapidly as they now without the switch to Intel, but I suspect the percentage of Mac owners actually running Bootcamp is very small. I'd be shocked if it was more than 5%.

G58
Mar 22, 2008, 10:03 PM
Strange. At first I thought you meant that we'd be free to choose whichever brands we like. Those who don't mind cheap flavor, dangerous additives, and low quality will choose Newports, Kools, Pall Malls, and Virginia Slims, etc., while those of us with any taste will smoke Dunhills, Nat Shermans, Gauloises, or handrolled Bali Shags. Ah, yes, a Mac is the Sabronie of computers ;)

:)
Very good kuwisdelu.

I'm no Californian, but I do wonder at the mentality of smokers. I started at the age of 12 - to fit in with a bad crowd at school. It was nothing more than that.

By the day I left school, I'd decided I wanted a motorcycle and knew I'd have to save up for it. I did the math and threw my last packet back through the school railings: a symbolic act in more ways than one and the last time I dropped litter.

But now we really are off piste with this one, so I'll just add my last comment on the actual topic of this thread:

When Apple ran the Think Different ads, they were telling the world: We're like these guys: Einstein, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Callas, Dylan, John and Yoko etc. and you can be too. Yep, pretty damned elitist.

We had the seriously elitist Geoff Goldblum voice-overs for the launches of the G5, 17" and 12" PowerBooks, quickly followed by the big guy with the 12" PowerBook and the little guy with the 17" PowerBook. And they were using them on an aircraft - not something the average person does very often.

Then came the 'I'm a Mac - I'm a PC' era. About as smug and elitist as one could be - especially the UK versions, which in my opinion were nowhere near as good as the US versions. But the scripts were all true and hilarious at times - especially if you were in on the joke, but elitist all the same.

The silhouette dancer images employed on the dayglo poster campaigns for iPod probably deserve to be in art museums. Every one of them. Ever thought how much they cost?

Then came iPhone and MacBook Air. Still right up there in quality, but something has changed. Gone are the human representatives of Apple's agency's idea of who a Mac user is.

Now all we see is the product, a pair of hands or even just a finger, a sweet, simple refrain from an obscure Israeli singer by the name of Yael Nam, or an even simpler guitar riff from an equally obscure band called Orba Squara.

By putting the iPhone and MacBook Air full screen in the centre with a blank background [actually being used in the case of the iPhone and being produced from an envelope in the case of the MacBook Air] our minds don't wander, all we process is the product and the pleasant, accessible message. And for a brief moment we own that iPhone and MacBook Air.

Pure genius.

If you're annoyed by these ads, tune into a news channel and find out what's actually happening in Tibet, in Iraq, in Zimbabwe. But for goodness sake keep things in perspective guys.