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MacRumors
Mar 25, 2008, 05:07 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Samsung introduced (http://www.i4u.com/article15709.html) a new touch-screen mobile phone called the SCH-W420 AnyCall (Youtube commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfaGzVuhgxM)). The new phone is available only in Korea at the moment, but incorporates a growing trend in mobile phone devices: vibration feedback.

Described as 'Haptic' (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2008/03/129_21317.html) phones, these specialized phones offer customized vibration to provide the user with specific types of touch-feedback. This sort of feedback is intended to make up for the absence of tactile feedback from an entirely smooth touch surface, such as on the iPhone.For example, the Samsung handset gives a click sensation when the user raises the volume of the speaker, as if it is a mechanical dial.
22 different kinds of these "haptic feedback" vibrations are said to be included with this latest Samsung phone.

One user project (http://code.google.com/p/iphone-haptics/) attempted to emulate this functionality on the iPhone, but without specialized hardware, the results have been disappointing (http://gizmodo.com/360927/iphone-haptic-keyboard-prototype-introduced-does-anyone-care).

While there have been no indication that Apple has specifically explored using this technology, Apple has worked on tactile feedback (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/01/apple-researching-touch-surface-keyboard/) systems that would ease the transition to flat-surface touch keyboards.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/03/25/samsung-introduces-new-haptic-touch-phone/)



MarlboroLite
Mar 25, 2008, 05:09 PM
I'd buy this phone if Verizon offers it.

arn
Mar 25, 2008, 05:09 PM
Immersion looks like the company behind a lot of this

http://www.immersion.com/

http://www.immersion.com/mobility/user_benefits/usability.php


Any button or input device can have its own distinctive tactile response. SEND can feel differently than CLEAR, for example.

You can scroll through lists and menus and feel a small "bump" for each item, like the clicks on the climate control knob in your car. When scrolling through a list of messages, unopened messages feel differently, producing a bounce or pop effect. When using a pen or touch pad, you get a confirming tap instead of just an audible beep. Even the tactile cue for power on will provide solid confirmation without an often intrusive chime.


arn

Hugh
Mar 25, 2008, 05:09 PM
Doesn't the iPhone have vibrate?

Hugh

arn
Mar 25, 2008, 05:11 PM
Doesn't the iPhone have vibrate?

Hugh

it does. it doesn't have 22 types of vibrate.

arn

fanbrain
Mar 25, 2008, 05:11 PM
I don't like haptic feedback- it doesn't seem right sometimes. Maybe if the click sensation is more subtle, but on my bosses Alpine GPS head unit, it feels like my finger is being shocked when I press the screen.

Phil A.
Mar 25, 2008, 05:13 PM
This is probably one of those features that 90% of people on here will hate unless Apple include it in a future iPhone. Then it will become the best thing a phone could ever have :rolleyes:

mac821
Mar 25, 2008, 05:14 PM
it does. it doesn't have 22 types of vibrate.

arn

one is enough for me

stevearm
Mar 25, 2008, 05:18 PM
This is probably one of those features that 90% of people on here will hate unless Apple include it in a future iPhone. Then it will become the best thing a phone could ever have :rolleyes:

Apple includes this tech in a future iPhone... 500 positives
Microsoft includes this tech in their smartphones... 1000 negatives

FireArse
Mar 25, 2008, 05:18 PM
one is enough for me

22 different types of vibration - one being enough for some people?!

You lot make it too easy! :D

F

inkswamp
Mar 25, 2008, 05:18 PM
it doesn't have 22 types of vibrate.

Starting to think Samsung might want to hire some porn stars to advertise this one. :D

bmb012
Mar 25, 2008, 05:19 PM
WarioWare: Twisted used feedback to amazing effect, and ended up being the best WarioWare game other there because of it (yeah, much better than Smooth Moves).

I'd really be surprised if Apple never updates the iPhone to use the vibration along with the touch screen...

motulist
Mar 25, 2008, 05:20 PM
This is definitely not front page news. I highly suggest it should be moved to page 2.

inkswamp
Mar 25, 2008, 05:22 PM
This is probably one of those features that 90% of people on here will hate unless Apple include it in a future iPhone. Then it will become the best thing a phone could ever have :rolleyes:

Sure, but in most cases, Apple tends to take an idea like this and put that additional layer of spit and polish on it that really turns it from a neat idea or a novelty into something indispensible. That's really all the iPod was. They took the mp3 player, which had been made by many others at that point and was barely more than a niche market, and did it the way it should have been done.

bilbo--baggins
Mar 25, 2008, 05:23 PM
This sounds similar to the way the scoll ball works on the mighty mouse to give that impression that it's clicking when the ball moves, but with vibration feedback instead of sound.

coolfactor
Mar 25, 2008, 05:24 PM
This is probably one of those features that 90% of people on here will hate unless Apple include it in a future iPhone. Then it will become the best thing a phone could ever have :rolleyes:

I think it'll depend. Apple tends not to implement a feature/design until they feel they have it right. Of course, they've misfired a few times, and I think they've learned a lot from those experiences (round mouse, anyone?).

If Apple misfires on implementing the haptic feedback, users won't be happy. Haptic feedback on the iPhone would also cut into the battery life that is oh-so-precious at the moment.

If it were a trivial thing to implement, we would've seen it already.

EagerDragon
Mar 25, 2008, 05:28 PM
Not sure this calls for front page, specially for a phone that is not selling in the US. What percentage of MacRumors members are from Korea?

Besides is not made by Apple, it is not currently in global competition with Apple either, so I am unsure why would it be a concern to me.



it does. it doesn't have 22 types of vibrate.

arn

So how long do you sit there to wait for the feedback?
Having to discern the specific vibration combination from 22 possible ones may take longer than practical.

Fonzijr1964
Mar 25, 2008, 05:30 PM
i watched some youtube videos of it and the os doesn't appear to be as soled as the iPhone os. It looks like you have to press to much and its not as intuitive.

Pros-
N/A

Cons-
No: Multi-tuch
Acsselaromiter
iPhone Copy

caliguy
Mar 25, 2008, 05:31 PM
I don't care if it vibrates and makes it feel like a mechanical dial. That's why we have new phones without dials and buttons.

Maybe this is for people uncomfortable with the transition to touch screens, but I don't care about phones that shake. Maybe I'll change my mind when I'm playing a game on the iPhone :)

nagromme
Mar 25, 2008, 05:36 PM
The haptic thing is a good idea--I've been hoping iPhone games would use the vibrate feedback like a game controller can, and this sounds like it could go even further with vibration. Not necessarily just a "me too" phone (other than the copycat design) like so many have been. Hopefully the vibrating UI doesn't hurt the battery-vs.-bulk equation too much.

I still suspect I'd prefer the Leopard OS and usability of an iPhone--but I'll be waiting for iPhone 2 :)

minik
Mar 25, 2008, 05:36 PM
A gimmick?

arn
Mar 25, 2008, 05:39 PM
I'd really be surprised if Apple never updates the iPhone to use the vibration along with the touch screen...

i watched some youtube videos of it and the os doesn't appear to be as soled as the iPhone os.

The samsung phone in this example is irrelevant. I don't expect anyone here to want one. It's just an example. As bmb012 said, I'd be surprised if this vibration feedback doesn't infiltrate its way into the iPhone in future iterations.

arn

Mykbibby
Mar 25, 2008, 05:41 PM
it doesn't have 22 types of vibrate.




That's what she said

Sweetfeld28
Mar 25, 2008, 05:42 PM
if you have to use a rotary dial to choose apps, or have to use that for dialing, i will not buy it.

But then again, i'm open to anything that is better than the LG Voyager.

MacFly123
Mar 25, 2008, 05:43 PM
Starting to think Samsung might want to hire some porn stars to advertise this one. :D

LOL that made me laugh. I saw someone on here once post a link to an accessory that turns the iPod into a sex toy lol.

I think this would be good as long as it is very subtle and doesn't waste the battery!

crees!
Mar 25, 2008, 05:43 PM
My fiance just bought the LG Voyager (touch-screen). Was playing with it today. Did not like it compared to the iPhone when touching controls. Had a LOT of miss-touches that went into menus I didn't want to go to. Plus it was set to vibrate when it sensed a touch. Didn't like that at all because it was the whole phone that vibrated, not just the area you touched. It's an okay phone, but I think the iPhone still rules.

Fonzijr1964
Mar 25, 2008, 05:45 PM
I don't care if it vibrates and makes it feel like a mechanical dial. That's why we have new phones without dials and buttons.

Maybe this is for people uncomfortable with the transition to touch screens, but I don't care about phones that shake. Maybe I'll change my mind when I'm playing a game on the iPhone :)

The haptic thing is a good idea--I've been hoping iPhone games would use the vibrate feedback like a game controller can, and this sounds like it could go even further with vibration. Not necessarily just a "me too" phone (other than the copycat design) like so many have been. Hopefully the vibrating UI doesn't hurt the battery-vs.-bulk equation too much.

I still suspect I'd prefer the Leopard OS and usability of an iPhone--but I'll be waiting for iPhone 2 :)

The iPhone SDK includes the ability to access code to use the vibration feature so i don't see y not
A gimmick?

yes just a copy
That's what she said

lol

seedster2
Mar 25, 2008, 05:45 PM
This is probably one of those features that 90% of people on here will hate unless Apple include it in a future iPhone. Then it will become the best thing a phone could ever have :rolleyes:

Indeed:D

TheSpecialist
Mar 25, 2008, 05:49 PM
Ugly phone and useless. Why would anyone want this:confused:? It only sucks up battery and when using an iPhone you don't need a vibrating feeling every time you press a letter. That's just stupid.

Well OK, include this in a better, refined, polished and functional way (like Apple always does), and then include it as an OPTION.
Then I would like it, but this is just dumb.

And why the hell do all touch phones look like the iPhone since the iPhone introduction? For christ sakes innovate yourself you lazy *****:mad::mad::mad:!

lazyrighteye
Mar 25, 2008, 06:00 PM
A friend has the LG Voyager (http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/mobile%20phones_select%20by%20carrier_verizon_VOYAGER.jhtml).
It offers vibration feedback. Only one, quick, burst.
Still, it's neat and I could see where 22 might be useful - to a degree.
But, I think it could get pretty kludgy, real quick.
Guess I'd have to use one to know.

Tactile feedback is DEF one challenging (tho I have adapted) aspect of my iPhone experience - requiring the user to look directly at the device the entire time of use (unless they are a Jedi). Which is not necessarily a bad thing, just saying - I can't see Apple going this route in future updates/products.

And I agree with those suggesting that if this were an Apple announcement, us fanboys/girls would be all "FTW!" ;)

flamejob
Mar 25, 2008, 06:02 PM
errr... Mighty Mouse anyone??

BongoBanger
Mar 25, 2008, 06:03 PM
Ugly phone and useless. Why would anyone want this:confused:? It only sucks up battery and when using an iPhone you don't need a vibrating feeling every time you press a letter. That's just stupid.

Well OK, include this in a better, refined, polished and functional way (like Apple always does), and then include it as an OPTION.
Then I would like it, but this is just dumb.

And why the hell do all touch phones look like the iPhone since the iPhone introduction? For christ sakes innovate yourself you lazy *****:mad::mad::mad:!

And there we have it, ladies and gentlemen.

Anyway, it's interesting to see how these things evolve.

bytethese
Mar 25, 2008, 06:05 PM
it does. it doesn't have 22 types of vibrate.

arn

Oh man, I could go SOOO many bad places with this. :)

gcmexico
Mar 25, 2008, 06:06 PM
The samsung phone in this example is irrelevant. I don't expect anyone here to want one. It's just an example. As bmb012 said, I'd be surprised if this vibration feedback doesn't infiltrate its way into the iPhone in future iterations.

arn
***
I disagree...the samsung phone looks interesting (irrelevant is too strong a word)...not that I would get one because I'm a happy Mac addict...but its seems that the competition is catching on, which can only mean good things for the Iphone:cool:

twoodcc
Mar 25, 2008, 06:10 PM
well, a little competition never hurt anyone...

i.maverick
Mar 25, 2008, 06:11 PM
Apple includes this tech in a future iPhone... 500 positives
Microsoft includes this tech in their smartphones... 1000 negatives

okay.. so whats your point man.??!!
lol

abrooks
Mar 25, 2008, 06:11 PM
That's what she said

Nice. :D

akhentek
Mar 25, 2008, 06:15 PM
definitely not a power savings friendly feature

prefer no 20+ types of vibrate and long battery life :)

Prof.
Mar 25, 2008, 06:21 PM
That looks just like the iPhone only longer and possibly skinnier.

Still, I don't think this will 'kill' the iPhone.

7on
Mar 25, 2008, 06:25 PM
Gotta love the Daft :p

Arne
Mar 25, 2008, 06:28 PM
I have tried a few of those Phones with a touchscreen and vibrate-feedback and I had the impression that the feedback was necessary because the touchscreen would not always respond to the finger. I tried to use the touchscreen keyboard and started typing as I do with an iPhone/iTouch, but it did not register half of the keys I tapped on. The vibrate seemed to my like an indicator that says "Ok, I registered your finger, now click the next button". I don't miss this on my iTouch...

9secondadidas
Mar 25, 2008, 06:34 PM
Also it appears to have a neat looking interface. Can't wait to get my hands on one.

Krafty
Mar 25, 2008, 06:38 PM
Meh, looks "iiiiiiight"

diamond.g
Mar 25, 2008, 06:41 PM
Haptic feedback would be useful for no looking operation as well. It would be good to get some confirmation that you did something without having to look at the screen. *glares at wife looking at phone while driving*

L3X
Mar 25, 2008, 06:48 PM
That looks just like the iPhone only longer and possibly skinnier.


That's what she said...

nickXedge
Mar 25, 2008, 06:52 PM
That's what she said

Touché.

Luis
Mar 25, 2008, 06:53 PM
I don't know how many people agree, but I actually enjoy typing on my iPhone, "haptic" feedback or not. I'm not saying that 22 types of vibration couldn't improve it, but I do like it the way it is now.

Luis
Mar 25, 2008, 06:54 PM
That's what she said...

That should be copied into the "That's what she said" thread!

mcoyne
Mar 25, 2008, 06:56 PM
errr... Mighty Mouse anyone??

I actually quite enjoy my mighty mouse. I particularly like the scroll ball. I find myself trying to use the scroll ball whenever using a regular mouse now. I see a lot of people dissing it and I'm not sure why. Have they actually used it?

gifford
Mar 25, 2008, 07:07 PM
Apple includes this tech in a future iPhone... 500 positives
Microsoft includes this tech in their smartphones... 1000 negatives

True, but history would suggest msft are highly likely to have stolen the tech, and/or do a very bad job of implementing it. whereas...

bill-gates
Mar 25, 2008, 07:10 PM
you all do know that samsung is a knock off company? right....
APPLE FO EV's! :apple:

t0mat0
Mar 25, 2008, 07:21 PM
Sometimes one type of vibration is good enough. Some people want more than 20... Ahem. So many straplines (It's good to touch, even better to feel) ... (Ad to Beach Boys - "I'm picking up good vibrations..."

The bonus is it's most likely licensed from Immersion Corporation to Samsung (rather than a sub group of Samsung providing it). So it's potentially licensable to Apple if they want it. I guess in gaming it could be used, but unless it's deemed useful enough, it ain't gonna be in an iPhone.

skinnylegs
Mar 25, 2008, 07:22 PM
Frankly, I could give a fat rat's ass.

powermac_daddy
Mar 25, 2008, 07:42 PM
they are trying to kick miss iPhone. good... more should do that.

Syrus28
Mar 25, 2008, 07:44 PM
Why the article now? I mean a lot of phones have been coming out with haptic feedback. Most notably LG phones like the Voyager, Chocolate, Venus, Prada, etc.

gkarris
Mar 25, 2008, 07:48 PM
Frankly, I could give a fat rat's ass.

Throw this phone onto the pile of "iPhone copies"...

Darkroom
Mar 25, 2008, 07:53 PM
the Anycall add uses the same Daft Punk track they use in Kitten Cannon:

http://www.burststudio.com/kitten.html

Luis
Mar 25, 2008, 07:55 PM
Throw this phone onto the pile of "iPhone copies"...

Pretty popular group that one eh? :D

BKF
Mar 25, 2008, 08:02 PM
I'm just waiting for Apple to pick up that tag line that you see at the end of the commercial. In Korean, maybe.

mothergoose45
Mar 25, 2008, 08:22 PM
This is probably one of those features that 90% of people on here will hate unless Apple include it in a future iPhone. Then it will become the best thing a phone could ever have :rolleyes:

Oh did you hit the nail exactly on the head:D

Syrus28
Mar 25, 2008, 08:28 PM
Throw this phone onto the pile of "iPhone copies"...

Why, because it has a touch screen, has a speaker, sends/recieves calls, and plays music ?

It looks nothing like an iPhone!

s8film40
Mar 25, 2008, 08:49 PM
I could see how this might make future games a little more interesting. As far as for tactile feedback it's just a gimmick I would hate to see any future iPhones use this if it would add to cost or size and or reduce battery life. This is equivalent to having a keyboard that beeps every time you hit a key it's a fad that will die out before you know it.

Prof.
Mar 25, 2008, 08:55 PM
That's what she said...
I had that coming.:o

TheSlush
Mar 25, 2008, 09:02 PM
Does anyone know what the battery life claims are of this Samsung SCH-W420 AnyCall? (And is it 3G? I'm not familiar with Korea's norms.) Maybe that would tell us how taxing all this vibration is on the battery.

This is definitely not front page news. I highly suggest it should be moved to page 2.

Agreed.

Why, because it has a touch screen, has a speaker, sends/recieves calls, and plays music ?

It looks nothing like an iPhone!

Um, I think we can safely conclude that if Apple's iPhone had not appeared first, this Samsung phone would not exist.

irun5k
Mar 25, 2008, 09:14 PM
I'm not sure I get this feature. If you don't get feedback in the exact area you press, what good is it? So if I press [1] on the touch keypad, the whole phone shakes. It will do the same if I press [7]. I don't think this solves any problems.

The challenge many have with using touch screens is that they can't feel the keys before they touch them. I don't see how having the whole phone shake every time you touch it helps, even if the shakes are a little different each time. Unless they've figured out a way to localize the feedback to the exact area you touched- that would work.

Syrus28
Mar 25, 2008, 09:30 PM
Does anyone know what the battery life claims are of this Samsung SCH-W420 AnyCall? (And is it 3G? I'm not familiar with Korea's norms.) Maybe that would tell us how taxing all this vibration is on the battery.
Its probably 3G. Also, this haptic feedback is not really new. My old LG Chocolate has it. I can't imagine that it won't cause a noticeable drain



Um, I think we can safely conclude that if Apple's iPhone had not appeared first, this Samsung phone would not exist.
Yeah, and the iPhone would not have appeared if this thing didn't appear first:
http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/CDE/_1STCELL.JPG

That doesn't that make the iPhone a copy. Its called technology.

sleepingworker
Mar 25, 2008, 10:25 PM
ahh, the future is here - touch and vibrate.

The Toddfather
Mar 25, 2008, 10:41 PM
T9? You've got to be kidding.

G58
Mar 25, 2008, 10:44 PM
Haptic? What is that all about? Wait... I don't care. I've handled an iPhone and I like the fact that it's easy to work out precisely how much and how little pressure is required to activate a touch screen key. iPhone immediately inspires confidence this way. And by 'immediately' I mean immediately. You want one as soon as you handle it. There's no room for doubt.

Then there are the copycats. See the crap linked here [it even has an iPod wheel icon!!] and the others I mentioned in my last rant on this subject. As the assistant hands me one, he also hands me a little plastic wand! Eew! No no no. I'd rather go to rehab. Take it away. I had one of those for my green screened Palm ten years ago. It was novel then - it's naff now, really naff.

The next one did a little buzz as I touched the screen, the kind of buzz one imagines might excite a Barbie doll - again, novel at first and then, within 30 seconds, I'm thinking: Battery charge thief. Barbie can sort herself out.

But here's the thing: this buzz didn't happen every time I touched the screen - only when I got the pressure and duration exactly right. And this seemed to vary from icon to 'key' to list item. Haptic my arse. Samsung have polished another turd and, worse, this time they've given it a name!

There's really no excuse for this and the experience left me with one conclusion: Where iPhone does it with simplicity, the copycats add millions of features and imitation Mac icons. Nasty. There's really no competition.

Innovate you stupid people, innovate.

G

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Samsung introduced (http://www.i4u.com/article15709.html) a new touch-screen mobile phone called the SCH-W420 AnyCall (Youtube commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfaGzVuhgxM)). The new phone is available only in Korea at the moment, but incorporates a growing trend in mobile phone devices: vibration feedback.

Described as 'Haptic' (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2008/03/129_21317.html) phones, these specialized phones offer customized vibration to provide the user with specific types of touch-feedback. This sort of feedback is intended to make up for the absence of tactile feedback from an entirely smooth touch surface, such as on the iPhone.
22 different kinds of these "haptic feedback" vibrations are said to be included with this latest Samsung phone.

One user project (http://code.google.com/p/iphone-haptics/) attempted to emulate this functionality on the iPhone, but without specialized hardware, the results have been disappointing (http://gizmodo.com/360927/iphone-haptic-keyboard-prototype-introduced-does-anyone-care).

While there have been no indication that Apple has specifically explored using this technology, Apple has worked on tactile feedback (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/01/apple-researching-touch-surface-keyboard/) systems that would ease the transition to flat-surface touch keyboards.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/03/25/samsung-introduces-new-haptic-touch-phone/)

tuneman07
Mar 25, 2008, 10:45 PM
What about blind people? Will they be able to feel the vibrations?

Niiro13
Mar 25, 2008, 10:53 PM
I guess it's good for some people.

Me personally, I think that I'm gonna go into a seizure with all the vibrations.

Just not for me.

G58
Mar 25, 2008, 11:16 PM
Touch screens for blind people...:rolleyes:

Will someone please explain to me how that one's going to work?

Shakes head in disbelief.

What about blind people? Will they be able to feel the vibrations?

sleepingworker
Mar 25, 2008, 11:23 PM
What about blind people? Will they be able to feel the vibrations?

Not if you're blind in your fingertips.

JetStar
Mar 26, 2008, 12:11 AM
It's just a gimmick.
What's the point of having haptic feedback on a device that you will need to look at just to see where the buttons are? Sure if its a device with physical buttons, when shoved in your pocket and you press said buttons, you would want that vibration to tell that you've actually done something.
Plus, how long have touch screens been around? For ages, and now they are just deciding to add this feedback?

deputylove8
Mar 26, 2008, 01:13 AM
hehehehe..its interesting to c how Apple can spawn a technology race...hehehe..next thing u see may be private telephone companies
opening up iPhoneBooth along the streets...

New iPhone pick up line:
" Hey baby, u look like my iPhone...stunning, slim and as sexy as the iPhone..
and when I touch u.....u get turned on"

winterspan
Mar 26, 2008, 01:45 AM
I don't like haptic feedback- it doesn't seem right sometimes. Maybe if the click sensation is more subtle, but on my bosses Alpine GPS head unit, it feels like my finger is being shocked when I press the screen.

I completely agree. I've used this "haptic" tech before on an Verizon LG Voyager. It just feels like a little zing on your finger when you hit a button. I find it rather annoying actually. Now, I don't believe the LG Voyager implementation could change the vibration depending on the command/button, that would make it slightly more appealing in my mind, but still nothing I miss on my iPod Touch.

Now I'm also not sure this is the same technology as the Voyager, it sounds as if this is more advanced. Honestly, though, I think this vibration-on-touch is a really weak implementation of a haptic system for touch screens. I'm would imagine Apple could and probably will in the future pull off something truly extraordinary in the "haptic-touch" area.

By the way, wasn't there an article on one of the tech sites (or maybe here on MR) about a flat display based haptic technology that replicated the "click" sensation of a plastic button?

csimmons
Mar 26, 2008, 02:17 AM
Haptic feedback would be useful for no looking operation as well. It would be good to get some confirmation that you did something without having to look at the screen. *glares at wife looking at phone while driving*

Please explain how haptic feedback would be useful for no-look operation on a device with a smooth surface (the touchscreen) and a dynamic (always changing) UI.
:rolleyes:

sjo
Mar 26, 2008, 03:47 AM
Please explain how haptic feedback would be useful for no-look operation on a device with a smooth surface (the touchscreen) and a dynamic (always changing) UI.
:rolleyes:


the same way most people learn to type without looking at the keyboard, they feel it.

a haptic device has different feedback for different actions. so you don't have to look at the device to know where to press. neither would you need to look at the device to see what the press caused.

dernhelm
Mar 26, 2008, 05:11 AM
the same way most people learn to type without looking at the keyboard, they feel it.

a haptic device has different feedback for different actions. so you don't have to look at the device to know where to press. neither would you need to look at the device to see what the press caused.

A keyboard is a static device. The keys don't move around depending upon which app you happen to be in.

Haptic might be useful in the cases when you pick up your iPhone and KNOW what state it was going to be in. For instance, when the phone is ringing, a way to no-look sending the call on to voice mail and turn off the ringer all at once would be very nice.

I suppose you could argue that you generally know what state you're in when you've pressed the home button (although that doesn't always have immediate response). But haptic for the home screen? I'm supposed to feel around hoping to stumble upon the right feel for an app button? Doesn't seem all that valuable to me. But who knows, maybe I'd love it.

-R

sdds
Mar 26, 2008, 05:52 AM
At the risk of being labeled immature: The pr0n industry might just take this technology up and make it marketable for the masses :D

Vibra Chat® - the favourite tool of travelling businessmen's wifes or the next level of juicy video chats...

diamond.g
Mar 26, 2008, 06:26 AM
Please explain how haptic feedback would be useful for no-look operation on a device with a smooth surface (the touchscreen) and a dynamic (always changing) UI.
:rolleyes:

The feedback could be used to let you know you clicked something. I am just trying to think of ways to get my wife to not look at the iPhone while driving.

Now just imagine living in a state where there are no hands free laws and having thousands of people with iPhone and trying to drive an talk (or even drive and text). Some sort of feedback should be better than none.

The only other cool thing I could think of is assigning a different kind of vibration for certain people. Kinda like how you can assign different ringtones.

network23
Mar 26, 2008, 08:10 AM
"One type of vibrate should be enough for anyone."

radio893fm
Mar 26, 2008, 09:07 AM
Sure, but in most cases, Apple tends to take an idea like this and put that additional layer of spit and polish on it that really turns it from a neat idea or a novelty into something indispensible. That's really all the iPod was. They took the mp3 player, which had been made by many others at that point and was barely more than a niche market, and did it the way it should have been done.

That additional layer is called fanboyism. Nothing more.

JetStar
Mar 26, 2008, 10:06 AM
The feedback could be used to let you know you clicked something.

That's obvious. But on a device where you constantly need to be looking at the screen to even know where the buttons are, haptic technology doesn't make sense.

TheSlush
Mar 26, 2008, 10:29 AM
Yeah, and the iPhone would not have appeared if this thing didn't appear first:
http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/CDE/_1STCELL.JPG

That doesn't that make the iPhone a copy. Its called technology.

Point taken. But you cannot seriously be comparing the MAJOR (24-year) advancements between the FIRST cell phone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_DynaTAC) and the iPhone, with the MINOR (1-year) differences between the iPhone and that Samsung phone which is an obvious knockoff. I mean, painfully obvious. (I hardly think one can even use the term "advancement" here.)

Take note, people: The only thing less rational than fanboyism is anti-fanboyism.

sleepingworker
Mar 26, 2008, 10:47 AM
... with the MINOR (1-year) differences between the iPhone and that Samsung phone which is an obvious knockoff. I mean, painfully obvious. (I hardly think one can even use the term "advancement" here.)

I'm just happy that Apple raised the bar with the iP and that other companies are now having to push their design/tech people to try and keep up (or maybe one day surpass) the iPhone. It is only a good thing when other companies compete with Apple - both for those that love Apple and for those that hate Apple. Almost all great design, ideas, and art look both backwards and forwards IMHO.

mogzieee
Mar 26, 2008, 10:57 AM
since i cant afford an iPhone this one looks good...

Harmless Abuse
Mar 26, 2008, 11:15 AM
Actually, if this were available in the States, I'd buy it., or perhaps I'll get an unlocked one.

I'm kind of sick of the "Oooooh it's an iPhone rip-off!" BS, because Apple wasn't the first one to make a touch-screen smartphone.

I like the iPhone, and think it's a nice phone, but for the price, you don't get what you pay for in this case.

The phone just looks good. The phone isn't quite a smartphone, and it's sad when my RAZR can do more than the iPhone... All it's missing is an oversized touchscreen.

If this is quad-band, I think I might ask my cousin living in Korea to find me an unlocked one honestly. Samsung can make nice phones, and the haptic feedback can really make a difference. With haptic, you have more of a response when tapping a command. I like the sensation of a physical button, but aesthetically speaking, a physical button is not always as appealing.

Intarweb
Mar 26, 2008, 11:34 AM
That's obvious. But on a device where you constantly need to be looking at the screen to even know where the buttons are, haptic technology doesn't make sense.

Different vibrations for different buttons. What's so hard to comprehend? It's perfectly viable for hands free operation where as the iPhone is impossible to use sans looking, a hap device will make it a possibility.

Don't worry, Apple will copy it and you'll praise it as the second coming of Jesus.

sleepingworker
Mar 26, 2008, 11:39 AM
The phone just looks good. The phone isn't quite a smartphone, and it's sad when my RAZR can do more than the iPhone... All it's missing is an oversized touchscreen.

I've had a RAZR for about 3 years and although I love the design as far as cell phones go, I find the interface old and unintuitive. I don't own an iP (yet) but have loved searching the web, watching videos, etc. on my friends iP's. I don't think of the iP as just a phone, but more as an ultra mini computer and web device.

Since I own the RAZR, if you would, please enlighten me as to all the things it can do that the iP can't and why you prefer it. Thank you in advance.

diamond.g
Mar 26, 2008, 11:42 AM
That's obvious. But on a device where you constantly need to be looking at the screen to even know where the buttons are, haptic technology doesn't make sense.I would find it surprising that people don't have a good idea of where the buttons are on the phone. It isn't like every time you use the phone.app the buttons rearrange themselves.

But I will concede that it may not be possible.

DaveGee
Mar 26, 2008, 11:43 AM
The million dollar question... Will it vibrate to let me know its vibrating?! :p:rolleyes:

Big battery drain if you ask me... (yea I know, nobody asked me). :D

Dave

gwangung
Mar 26, 2008, 11:50 AM
Remember, it's features and the system to use those features that's important. That's ALWAYS been Apple's strategy.

This stuff is useless if there's isn't a clean, consistent way to use 'em. That takes skull work. And if Apple does it well, the paens they garner will be totally justified.

Intarweb
Mar 26, 2008, 12:54 PM
But I will concede that it may not be possible.

Yes it is and I stated how above. Don't concede, he's wrong and/or unable to look at how the technology can, and is, being used. I guess since it's not in the iPhone it can't be possible.....*rolleyes*

Syrus28
Mar 26, 2008, 01:01 PM
Point taken. But you cannot seriously be comparing the MAJOR (24-year) advancements between the FIRST cell phone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_DynaTAC) and the iPhone, with the MINOR (1-year) differences between the iPhone and that Samsung phone which is an obvious knockoff. I mean, painfully obvious. (I hardly think one can even use the term "advancement" here.)

Take note, people: The only thing less rational than fanboyism is anti-fanboyism.
Actually, people are calling it a Prada knock-off (http://gizmodo.com/355362/hands+on-samsungs-f480-prada-phone-knockoff-verdict-ill-pass).

It has features the iPhone doesn't: 3G, MMS, video recording, etc that would qualify it as an advancement [however little].

I just don't get this mentality that anything that comesafter an Apple product is reduced to a knock-off. Heck, the Prada came out 4 months before the iPhone. The idea of an all-touch phone were indeed out there before Apple.

http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/showimage.php?m=Reviews&f=image&id=1754

benpatient
Mar 26, 2008, 02:18 PM
only read the first couple of pages worth of comments about this, but guys, you're missing the point completely.

when you put your finger on the iphone, you have to look at it to make sure your finger is in the right spot.

a haptic display can tell you, just like a real-life keyboard does, through your fingers, that you have your finger on a button instead of on say a photo.

the vibrations trick your skin into sensing things like texture and pressure. For example, a solid screen that when you put your finger on it and rub, feels (if you close your eyes) like a piece of sand paper. These are very, very tiny vibrations that simulate various non-vibration "feelings." This isn't a glorified dual-shock controller...there's an article about haptics, and haptic displays, in the current Popular Mechanics. I was just reading about it a couple of days ago and thinking how much it was going to change the way we do things...

benpatient
Mar 26, 2008, 02:30 PM
Point taken. But you cannot seriously be comparing the MAJOR (24-year) advancements between the FIRST cell phone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_DynaTAC) and the iPhone, with the MINOR (1-year) differences between the iPhone and that Samsung phone which is an obvious knockoff. I mean, painfully obvious. (I hardly think one can even use the term "advancement" here.)

Take note, people: The only thing less rational than fanboyism is anti-fanboyism.

Haptics will have more of an impact on your life in the next 20 years than Apple computer ever will...

Guess what a youtube video can't show you...what it feels like to touch fur or water or leather or brushed aluminum...

sleepingworker
Mar 26, 2008, 03:03 PM
only read the first couple of pages worth of comments about this, but guys, you're missing the point completely.

when you put your finger on the iphone, you have to look at it to make sure your finger is in the right spot.

a haptic display can tell you, just like a real-life keyboard does, through your fingers, that you have your finger on a button instead of on say a photo.

the vibrations trick your skin into sensing things like texture and pressure. For example, a solid screen that when you put your finger on it and rub, feels (if you close your eyes) like a piece of sand paper. These are very, very tiny vibrations that simulate various non-vibration "feelings." This isn't a glorified dual-shock controller...there's an article about haptics, and haptic displays, in the current Popular Mechanics. I was just reading about it a couple of days ago and thinking how much it was going to change the way we do things...

Would you post the article if online? Then in a virtual keyboard for example, where we have bumps for the f and j keys. there would be some subtle feedback for finger placement?

elcid
Mar 26, 2008, 03:33 PM
So how long do you sit there to wait for the feedback?
Having to discern the specific vibration combination from 22 possible ones may take longer than practical.


Not True. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_code) Less then a second or two.

My cell phone does a dash dash dash, lasts shorter than a ring tone and its done before I can get it out of my pocket.

TheSlush
Mar 26, 2008, 03:44 PM
Haptics will have more of an impact on your life in the next 20 years than Apple computer ever will...

Oh good, well if you could also let me know what stocks to invest in, what lottery numbers to pick, and the date of my own death then I'll be all set. :rolleyes:

arn
Mar 26, 2008, 03:53 PM
Would you post the article if online? Then in a virtual keyboard for example, where we have bumps for the f and j keys. there would be some subtle feedback for finger placement?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4253368.html

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/nokia-haptikos-200.jpg

The Nokia Haptikos Web pad prototype uses piezo actuators mounted beneath its touchscreen to produce vibrations and pulses. The screen has a 0.1-mm movement that is independent of the device body itself, allowing for highly accurate feedback. When the screen is touched, it can produce sensations that mimic the different stages of pressing a physical button, from pushing down to letting go. Nokia expects to include the technology in a product coming this year.

G58
Mar 26, 2008, 09:16 PM
"immature"? no, sexist maybe. What about businesswomen?

Just a thought... being as it's 2008, not 1938!


At the risk of being labeled immature: The pr0n industry might just take this technology up and make it marketable for the masses :D

Vibra Chat® - the favourite tool of travelling businessmen's wifes or the next level of juicy video chats...

G58
Mar 26, 2008, 09:28 PM
BS?

Personally I hate bad rip-offs.

If the iPhone only "just looks good" and "isn't quite a smartphone" why have Apple already taken 28% of the smart phone market?

I absolutely guarantee that every purchaser isn't either a Mac fanboy or sad marketing dupe. Some people recognise true design innovation is much much more than skin deep.

You RAZR has such a pathetic market share because it's a much bigger compromise than anything Apple would ever design or sell.



I'm kind of sick of the "Oooooh it's an iPhone rip-off!" BS,...

The phone just looks good. The phone isn't quite a smartphone, and it's sad when my RAZR can do more than the iPhone... All it's missing is an oversized touchscreen.

If this is quad-band, I think I might ask my cousin living in Korea to find me an unlocked one honestly. Samsung can ma.

G58
Mar 26, 2008, 09:41 PM
I've got an idea to enable unassisted free flight using mind over matter - without the aid of drugs, but you'll have to wait until the end of 2010 before you can use it!

And Arthur C. Clarke invented satellites, but it was a while before someone else built one.

There are ideas, and there's innovation, design, implementation.


The idea of an all-touch phone were indeed out there before Apple.

chickenninja
Mar 26, 2008, 09:45 PM
I am so happy Korea manages to make a product on the level of the iphone, it instills confidence in me that progression knows no borders or nationality. go humanity!

G58
Mar 26, 2008, 09:52 PM
With a name like 'haptics' it's the next Betamax and HDDVD, Microsoft and Dell.

Don't reply now, just remember that someone you don't know once predicted that one day the world will be rid of the crap grouped together here.

Companies that make good decisions survive. Who's adopting haptics and who isn't?

Who backed HDDVD? Who inflicted Windows Vista on the world? Who left a screaming idiot in charge of the shop? Who managed to turn a premium PC manufacturer with a direct selling model into a bargain basement company?

If you want to get into the predictions business, understand what success consists of.

Haptics will have more of an impact on your life in the next 20 years than Apple computer ever will.....

Mykbibby
Mar 26, 2008, 10:19 PM
Take note, people: The only thing less rational than fanboyism is anti-fanboyism.

Especially on a fanboy site such as Macrumors...

Thats what this site is for... too be as biased towards Apple as is humanly possible.

Intarweb
Mar 27, 2008, 07:06 AM
With a name like 'haptics' it's the next Betamax and HDDVD, Microsoft and Dell.

Don't reply now, just remember that someone you don't know once predicted that one day the world will be rid of the crap grouped together here.

Companies that make good decisions survive. Who's adopting haptics and who isn't?

Who backed HDDVD? Who inflicted Windows Vista on the world? Who left a screaming idiot in charge of the shop? Who managed to turn a premium PC manufacturer with a direct selling model into a bargain basement company?

If you want to get into the predictions business, understand what success consists of.

Yes, because haptic isn't a new technology or anything. It's not like it's still a technology at it's very early stage. :rolleyes:

I would like for you to tell me one thing the iPhone does that no other phone has done, years before it? Oooo, I can spread my fingers and make the page grow. Visual voice mail is about the only cool thing it has other than the design.

You're another delusional fanbot. I wish the world was rid of your kind along with any other fanbots (MS, Sony, Ford, etc.)

It's funny you're attacking MS, yet it was MS that allowed you to get your iPhone, remember that. If MS didn't invest in Apple, they would have been LONG GONE. SO I guess you can say, MS is your daddy.

TheSlush
Mar 27, 2008, 02:24 PM
I would like for you to tell me one thing the iPhone does that no other phone has done, years before it? Oooo, I can spread my fingers and make the page grow. Visual voice mail is about the only cool thing it has other than the design.

Doing something first is not the only standard by which to judge quality. Doing something well and usefully and with distinction is arguably more important. For instance, you refer to all of these not-so-memorable phones that preceded the iPhone, that could supposedly do almost everything the iPhone can do.... Well if they were so great, then why is there suddenly 50 times more internet usage on the iPhone than on any other handset (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/14/apple-iphones-ease-of-use-encouraging-mobile-internet-usage/)? I'll tell you why. Because it's better.

It's funny you're attacking MS, yet it was MS that allowed you to get your iPhone, remember that. If MS didn't invest in Apple, they would have been LONG GONE. SO I guess you can say, MS is your daddy.

Eureka! I think you might have just tapped into Microsoft's core competency: a source of funding for Apple. It's just too bad they don't have any value other than that! I hereby suggest Microsoft should morph itself into a venture capital firm whose sole purpose is to bankroll Apple's R&D. :D

nks06
Mar 29, 2008, 11:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIkBbWsa_dc

this is a more in depth video of its capabilities

pretty insane
I'm excited to see what will happen with iP2.0...

sleepingworker
Mar 29, 2008, 11:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIkBbWsa_dc

this is a more in depth video of its capabilities

pretty insane
I'm excited to see what will happen with iP2.0...

Video is awesome in the true sense of the word! When would something like this be publicly available?

Globetrotter
Mar 29, 2008, 12:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIkBbWsa_dc

this is a more in depth video of its capabilities

pretty insane
I'm excited to see what will happen with iP2.0...

Looks like an iPhone clone to me :confused:

Ubuntu
Mar 29, 2008, 12:20 PM
This is probably one of those features that 90% of people on here will hate unless Apple include it in a future iPhone. Then it will become the best thing a phone could ever have :rolleyes:

Haha, best post ever.

i watched some youtube videos of it and the os doesn't appear to be as soled as the iPhone os. It looks like you have to press to much and its not as intuitive.

Pros-
N/A

Cons-
No: Multi-tuch
Acsselaromiter
iPhone Copy

Not biased at all, are we? ;)

G58
Mar 30, 2008, 12:25 AM
I thought it looked like a crap imitation of an iPhone with all manner of features that were there... just because they could, unlike Apple who design features that reflect the way we humans work, and actually make our lives easier by being intuitive.

But before you throw back the sarcasm about bias, let's just look at the feature that causes the photos to slide left and right as the phone is tilted. What happens when one accidentally tilts the phone? The ****ing things go anyway - whether we want them to or not. Great!

This one is for idiots. It will last for 12 months at most and won't even get a 1% market share. It's a copy, and a bad one.

Haha, best post ever.
Not biased at all, are we? ;)

sleepingworker
Mar 30, 2008, 01:35 AM
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4253368.html

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/nokia-haptikos-200.jpg

Thanks for posting the article. Just amazing.

G58
Mar 30, 2008, 02:33 AM
Ah, thanks sleepingworker.

Is it just me or is this technology destined to go the way of the net?... straight to the pron industry?

I can see the spam piling up in my GMail filter now: "She can feel your m****r 2000 miles away!!!" :eek:

Anyone want to make a million? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Thanks for posting the article. Just amazing.

ruinfx
Mar 30, 2008, 02:48 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIkBbWsa_dc

this is a more in depth video of its capabilities

pretty insane
I'm excited to see what will happen with iP2.0...

moar

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZF9rcmX83yQ

csimmons
Mar 30, 2008, 03:03 AM
Yes, because haptic isn't a new technology or anything. It's not like it's still a technology at it's very early stage. :rolleyes:

I would like for you to tell me one thing the iPhone does that no other phone has done, years before it? Oooo, I can spread my fingers and make the page grow. Visual voice mail is about the only cool thing it has other than the design.

You're another delusional fanbot. I wish the world was rid of your kind along with any other fanbots (MS, Sony, Ford, etc.)

It's funny you're attacking MS, yet it was MS that allowed you to get your iPhone, remember that. If MS didn't invest in Apple, they would have been LONG GONE. SO I guess you can say, MS is your daddy.

1. You're the one actually sounding like the "fanboy" here with your pro-MS claim above. It was the iMac and the iPod that allowed people to get iPhones, Skippy.

2. Ahh the "MS bailed out Apple" myth rears it's head again. The truth of the matter: at the time MS "invested" 150 million in Apple (BTW Apple had over a billion in the bank at the time of the supposed bailout), It was being sued by Apple for violating Apple's patents on QuickTime; it had copied parts of the QuickTime codec to use in -you guessed it- Windows Media.

MS "invested" in Apple to save it's ass from yet another lawsuit.

You should know about something before you write about it.:rolleyes:

sleepingworker
Mar 30, 2008, 12:36 PM
Ah, thanks sleepingworker.

Is it just me or is this technology destined to go the way of the net?... straight to the pron industry?

I can see the spam piling up in my GMail filter now: "She can feel your m****r 2000 miles away!!!" :eek:

Anyone want to make a million? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

lol, well, the military, the entertainment, and the adult industries have certainly helped usher in new technologies.