Walmart Music Store

[MacRumors]

The New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/business/9969.htm) reports that Walmart is finalizing deals with the five major labels and plans to launch its own music download service as early as November 15th.

While no pricing details are available for the new music service, The Post notes that Walmart currently sells music at a loss at their retail stores to attract customers.

[evolu]

wallmart sucks

[dracoleb]

Wow, everybody seems to want to get into the game. Maybe this will hurt the credibility of the recent newcomer Napster. iTunes is the established standard.

[Freg3000]

I can see it already. 49 cents at amazingly low quality and tons of DRM.

[trebblekicked]

Originally posted by Freg3000
I can see it already. 49 cents at amazingly low quality and tons of DRM.

not to mention "family friendly" versions of your favorite tracks.:rolleyes:

F Walmart.

[LimeLite]

Ok, this is getting to be ridiculous.







On a side note, expect to see LimeLite's Music Store in early 2004...






:p

[Java]

Can I buy my clothes and grocies via the music store too?

[mjconnor]

Is this a joke?

Is it going to be a bunch of censored stuff, like in their stores?

Or is it going to be a load of Toby Keith hick crap, like in their stores?

Plus, does anyone who goes to Wal-Mart even know what a computer or the Internet is?

[JohnGillilan]

I wonder if this will be sponsored by the Handleman Company?? They are the music distributor for stores like WalMart, Target, K-Mart, etc. If so, do you think such a service would extend to these other similar stores?

[Powerbook G5]

So when will we be seeing a McDonald's music store? This is insane, everyone seems to be starting a music selling service now.

[QCassidy352]

agreed, this is nuts. How many are we up to by now? Apple, napster, dell, sony (right?), walmart, buymusic.com... and I'm sure I'm forgetting many. Methinks there isn't room in the market for this many people.

[reason1]

Do not underestimate the power of Walmart. They are willing to lose $$$ for years-in order to get people in the door.

[theipodgod16]

ohh there's always room for more....just that none will be as good as ipod\itunes man.

[ZildjianKX]

What's going to happen when some of these stores are going to go belly up? How will people be able to authenticate their music... digital rights management sucks... and it could create a big backlash.

I personally don't like buying music online... I can buy the CD, rip it, its better quality and I can do whatever I want with it, no hassle. Plus if the MP3 gets deleted, I can rip it again for free.

[pb1212580]

Ooh... I wonder if one would be able to return it if one decides it was the wrong music purchased?! lol ;)

seriously though, maybe it's a good thing a different kind of store is jumping in...brings in different ideas... good or bad.

2 cents

[ClimbingTheLog]

Walmart tried to emulate NetFlix too - anybody know how that's doing?

They have a patent going for them; I wonder if Apple get any patients on iTMS.

[Photorun]

Geez Walmart, an online music store? Really puh-leeease, that's soooo 2003.

There's a little Korean deli down on the corner that has it's own music store... and my grandma... and of course I have two or three online music stores myself. I mean... doesn't every have one?

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by mjconnor
Does anyone who goes to Wal-Mart even know what a computer or the Internet is?

Yes, but they all use Lindows.

[ITR 81]

The Walmart Music Store may not do well but I do go there quite abit for DVD sales, food and few other things. Most Wally Worlds around here are 24hr SuperCenters so they are sortof hangouts as well..like the Super Targets here.

[rainman::|:|]

i think it's time we all paid a visit to walmart HQ. they've been ripping us off for years, treating us like **** when we are stupid enough to shop there, now they're pulling this ****? come on. thankfully NO one i know even considers buying music at walmart, as was said above the censorship is terrible, i'm sure they'll have it online too. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

it seems everyone wants to get a finger in the pie. i think a lot of fingers are going to get burned.

pnw

[Ruthless]

Originally posted by LegionCSUF
Yes, but they all use Lindows.




that is awsome i actually laughed to myself!!!!

[evolu]

You think they will stock bottles of Pepsi that are giving away free iTunes tracks...

In true Wallmart style they will probably stock non-giveaway bottles only.


Edit: wrong cola!

[Dippo]

Originally posted by ClimbingTheLog
Walmart tried to emulate NetFlix too - anybody know how that's doing?

Walmart's DVD Rental thing is cheaper than Netflix but probably one of the worst things ever. It doesn't even compare to Netflix. You would be wasting your money if you signed up. I have read many reviews by people on the web and they all got fed up with the long waits and lack of customer service and all moved to Netflix.

I am sure Walmart would do about the same with a music store. Lower prices but not worth the hassle.

When will it ever end?

[voicegy]

Originally posted by dracoleb
Wow, everybody seems to want to get into the game.

Well, can't blame 'em. Stores that sell music were/are all over the place...Tower Records, Wherehouse, Sam Goody, various electronic stores, and, yes, huge discount retailers...and mom and pop stores, independent stores...the list goes on. This just represents a shift from "brick and morter" to online purchases, albeit now instead of merely "buying a cd online" and having it mailed to your door, you'll buy individual songs and/or whole "cd's" digitally, to be downloaded and manipulated on your computer. Something the more "savvy" computer user has been used to for a while now.

Truly a major shift in purchasing "merchandise" in an actual "digital" format...it was bound to "trickle down" to the masses via a giant, well established discount chain.

Oh, and, yes...I detest WalMart as well.

[daRAT]

*gag*

Oh please, I'd rather drive a screw driver into both ears than listen to wal-mart downloaded music.

[JoeMacDaddy]

Wal-Mart sells cheap quality items to folks with little money. Wal-Mart must be buying tons of cheap MP3 players from someone to go with the $399 PC with no monitor and your prepaid music card along with their prepaid telephone card so they don't have to stock any merchandise.

I really feel great pity on the poor public that buys their "Everyday Low Priced" whatever.

[leet1]

Originally posted by JoeMacDaddy
Wal-Mart sells cheap quality items to folks with little money. .

Im sure someone is going to be offended by you saying this, which by the way isn't true it all.

[~Shard~]

Wow, Walmart is being pretty inonovative and original with this idea - how come Apple hasn't thought of this yet?

;)

[balconycollapse]

Clearly Wal-Mart wants to be the music store for "guys with confederate flags on their trucks". JebTunes ^_^

Seriously though. Wal-Mart is the only option for many people to buy music who live in small town america, especially in the south. Your town might have a post office but if it has a Walmart ya got something at least. I've been to the birthplace summering over in Oklahoma. Where i live there is a walmart every mile and now they have these walmart neighboorhood stores that are pint size. They ruin the economy for other small businesses and buy 10 year leases on buildings leaving them empty when they build the superwalmart so competitors can't move in to them. Lets see what games they play in music. I dislike strongly the fact that they censor music because it leads to the dumming down of america and spread of conservativism. They could concievably give a free song to everyone who walks in the door as a promotion and just raise the price of everything in the store a penny for a day to pay for it. I wouldn't be surprised if they had walmart kiosks at the door with a cd burner for instant gratification for customers. How many people do you thing visit walmart everyday? Scary. 100 million pepsi/apple songs could get dwarfed.

-------
vote howard dean

[~Shard~]

Wal-Mart sells cheap quality items to folks with little money. .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by leet1
Im sure someone is going to be offended by you saying this, which by the way isn't true it all.

Actually I have to say that in a way, this comment is true. I was recently at a conference where the CEO of Walmart spoke, and he said that Walmart's business model actually is focused on people with lower incomes. He actually said he doesn't want to focus on bringing wealthier customers into the store - every business has to have its target market and a certain group of people it wants to focus on and directly serve the needs of, and he pretty much came out and said that Walmart's focus in on the people who need to save those few dollars here and there. Its Walmart's business model and their focus. As for the "cheap quality items", I agree they aren't the best quality, but again, everything has its place...

Just wanted to pass along his comments - don't shoot the messenger... ;)

Cheers,
Scott

[sethypoo]

You all shouldn't be getting on Wal*Mart's case quite yet, give them a chance to prove themselves. Then attack. Viciously. ;)

Just to add: I've probably purchased the majority of my CD's from retail places like Wal*Mart and Fred Meyer. I don't think it's very fair to say that they "suck." Many small town folks depend on them.

[daddy-mojo]

Originally posted by leet1
Im sure someone is going to be offended by you saying this, which by the way isn't true it all.


How is that offensive? There is truth to it. Some of my family shops there. I go there once in awhile to get deals on household cleaning supplies & socks. I hate going though, its always a freakin' madhouse. Its true though, its designed for people with lower incomes. They are the middle child of the great kmart/walmart/target food chain.:confused:

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by leet1
Im sure someone is going to be offended by you saying this, which by the way isn't true it all.

Yeah, there is some truth to it. I once spoke to a manager of my local Wal*Mart and he said to me that the majority of shoppers they get there are lower income people.

Then again, this has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, whoops! arn, forgive me.

I'll give the Wal*Mart music store a try, if they're smart enough to put it on the Mac!

[leet1]

Hmm, well I don't get it. My family shops there, I guess other higher income families don't like to save money? lol


<don't want to take this thread off topic, lol>

Maybe one day, all stores that sell CDs will have an online store as well. :D

[Makosuke]

Wal*Mart really is the Microsoft of retail chains, except instead of gouging the consumer due to their monopoly status they make it up in volume, but have the same disasterous results on competition. They are so big and so dominant that they can move into an area, drop a massive store in there, and absolutely crush any potential competition with through price undercutting.

Not enough business? Just sell CDs at a loss till most other retailers can't keep up with you. That's what happens when you're everywhere and have money coming out your ears. The fact that Wal*Mart is the largest employer IN THE WORLD is just frightening.

I would't even walk into one of their stores, and I sure wouldn't buy music online from them, even though it'll no doubt be incredibly cheap.

Funny... I live in a relatively small town 300 miles from the nearest city of any substance, and when Wal*Mart made plans to build a superstore here people fought viciously to keep them away... and actually succeeded. No Wal*Mart within at least 150 miles, and I'm proud of it.

Wildly unrelated, conspiracy theory thought: Wal*Mart is known to have a negative effect on local economies. And of all store chains in the world, who benefits most by people being poor? The one selling the cheapest (and lowest-quality) goods... Wal*Mart. They may be the only retailer in the world whose sales go up the poorer people get.

[ITR 81]

My family shops there and they make over 100k a yr. Most folks that goto our Walmarts make avg of 40-50k a yr. I don't call that poor I call it middle class workers.

I have friend that makes around 4.1 million a yr from his company that updates PC's and Mac networks in school systems. He shops there and wears clothing from there. Hell I been buying my Dickies from them since 94'.

[Powerbook G5]

I'm a poor college student and if you ask anyone at my school they all love that we have a Wal Mart 3 miles down the street. It's a real life saver and their grocery section is literally like Publix with a permanent 40% off on all food items.

[coolbreeze]

OMG. I was just kidding when I posted this:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=565698#post565698

Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket!! (I will if K-mart jumps on the bandwagon)!

[Dros]

Originally posted by Macrumors
While no pricing details are available for the new music service, The Post notes that Walmart currently sells music at a loss at their retail stores to attract customers.

Interestingly, selling music as a loss leader won't help with the Walmart online store, unless they will be selling other stuff online.

Apple, on the other hand, could reduce music prices and still make some money since bringing people to the iTMS helps sell iPods.

So Apple is like the retail Walmart in this case.

[1macker1]

I'll be opening my music store Dec. 25, 2003. Downloads will be $200.00 each. You may choose from a wide selection of over 200 songs. You may only play each song once, and it will self destruct.

thank you, and have a nice day.
Originally posted by daRAT
*gag*

Oh please, I'd rather drive a screw driver into both ears than listen to wal-mart downloaded music.

[electric]

Wallmart sells name brand equipment but with cheaper parts, These lower quality products are made by the name brand companies. So I was told this by a TV repair person.

[Superdrive]

Again Apple sets the standard. Now there is a huge rush for everyone to jump on and get their piece of the pie. Kudos to Apple for making kick ass products.

[Foxer]

Ah, the liberal paradox. We all feel sorry for the "poor," but we also love to mock what they do (and God forbid we ever go to their icky store.)

Would I buy clothes or electronics or jewelry at Wal-mart - no, I've priced myself out of that market. Toys, DVD's, food, tools? Why not? Save a little cash. Sure, it's sort of like Darwin's waiting room in there, but I'm not that smug.

Walmart music store? Not for me, thanks. I suspect it will struggle, but I can't put my finger on why.

[Photorun]

Originally posted by sethypoo
Many small town folks depend on them.

BZZZT! Wrong! MOST small town folks depending on small mom and pop shops that bolstered the local economies in small town America like where I grew up, better yet, those mom and pops were on downtown main streets, keeping small towns vital. Then Wallyworld came in with their wholesale junk, always located in some strip maul (int) just outside of town, killing mom and pop shops, bringing in minimum wage at best jobs with their junks, and effectively killing small town's downtowns. I can rattle off 10-15 small towns raped by Wallyworld. They're incidious and evil... you have your facts wrong, the only reason perhaps any small town folk depends on them is because they've decimated small town USA and now that's all that little struggling town with no downtown or it's own local jobs and markets has left... it's like relying on cancer for life, it's evil of homogenization corporate America in it's most sickening.

[idkew]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I'm a poor college student and if you ask anyone at my school they all love that we have a Wal Mart 3 miles down the street. It's a real life saver and their grocery section is literally like Publix with a permanent 40% off on all food items.

off topic but: you are the poor people. college kids are POOR. i just graduated and i am still POOR. i got all my "generic" stuff at 'mart (detergent, paper, pens, garbage cans...), but i bought clothes and food elsewhere.

on topic: walmart will prolly use predatory pricing, i agree. i also agree with the statements that they will censor thier music and have lots of dmr. it might just be in wmv (or whatever MSFT's format is) and therefore unavailable to ipoders without some work.

[mjconnor]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ~Shard~
[B]Wal-Mart sells cheap quality items to folks with little money. .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually I have to say that in a way, this comment is true. I was recently at a conference where the CEO of Walmart spoke, and he said that Walmart's business model actually is focused on people with lower incomes.

--------------------------
These quotes remind me of a of line from "Fight Club." Norton mentions the irony of using liposuction fat to make super high end soap that then is sold back to the lipo patients.

By screwing workers, suppliers, union-busting, etc. and (temporarily) selling products at a great loss to build market share, Wal-Mart enriches itself at the expense of the communities it "serves." Sure, times are tight, but poor folks shopping at Wal-Mart are being sold the knife to cut their own throats.

[Tulse]

Interestingly, selling music as a loss leader won't help with the Walmart online store, unless they will be selling other stuff online.

Agreed -- I don't understand the business case here at all. Online sales aren't going to drive people to a brick-and-mortar store. Apple seems to have figured out how to make money from online music, but that's by selling more music players, and not by selling the music itself. And Apple can afford to do that because the margin on the iPod is so high. I can't imagine that Wal*Mart would be successful in emulating that strategy (it's a low-margin, high-volume retailer).

[Marble]

Originally posted by Foxer
Ah, the liberal paradox. We all feel sorry for the "poor," but we also love to mock what they do (and God forbid we ever go to their icky store.)

Would I buy clothes or electronics or jewelry at Wal-mart - no, I've priced myself out of that market. Toys, DVD's, food, tools? Why not? Save a little cash. Sure, it's sort of like Darwin's waiting room in there, but I'm not that smug.

Walmart music store? Not for me, thanks. I suspect it will struggle, but I can't put my finger on why.

The liberal paradox? I don't shop at Walmart because it gives them money! I might buy clothes from an independent thrift store downtown, or maybe a donation-based chain like the Salvation Army or Casa de Los Ninos. Good grief... "save a little cash." *mutter*

Anyway, seeing as Walmart has a gross corporate product of about one-fourth of the US GNP (the company is richer than most third-world countries in the world - and much more wealthy than Microsoft), I could see an aggressive corporate strategy on their part to be a threat, if online commerce was a typical activity of their consumer base.
As it is, purchasing music on-line is a luxury activity, and even if they make it friggin' cheap, it isn't likely to catch the attention of anyone but the people who might potentially use another service anyway. To get the prices lower, the songs themselves will probably be heaped with restrictions. That audience will have to compare services anyway to make the switch, and the vast majority will likely find it totally unacceptable.
I guess for Walmart, it doesn't really matter if it succeeds or fails, either way it doesn't add half-a-straw to the unladen camel's back.

[Brent Turbo]

4 positives, 35 negatives.

How hypocritical. Microsoft is a monopoly that should be stopped, but fair competition in the "music store" arena is a bad thing? Hate to tell you, but monopolies suck no matter who's in charge. An Apple dominated computer world would be just as bad for everyone as a Microsoft dominated one.

[fredwick]

Originally posted by Photorun
BZZZT! Wrong! MOST small town folks depending on small mom and pop shops that bolstered the local economies in small town America like where I grew up, better yet, those mom and pops were on downtown main streets, keeping small towns vital. Then Wallyworld came in with their wholesale junk, always located in some strip maul (int) just outside of town, killing mom and pop shops, bringing in minimum wage at best jobs with their junks, and effectively killing small town's downtowns. I can rattle off 10-15 small towns raped by Wallyworld. They're incidious and evil... you have your facts wrong, the only reason perhaps any small town folk depends on them is because they've decimated small town USA and now that's all that little struggling town with no downtown or it's own local jobs and markets has left... it's like relying on cancer for life, it's evil of homogenization corporate America in it's most sickening.


AMEN WALMART IS EVIL!!!

[pbooktebo]

I was going to post, "well, where else will you be able to buy 'Dropkick me Jesus (through the goalpost of life)'" but then I went to iTMS, and sure enough it is there!

I'm just surprised nobody has made a fake Photoshop logo (I would but don't have the skillz).

[bankshot]

Originally posted by Makosuke
Funny... I live in a relatively small town 300 miles from the nearest city of any substance, and when Wal*Mart made plans to build a superstore here people fought viciously to keep them away... and actually succeeded. No Wal*Mart within at least 150 miles, and I'm proud of it.

Wow. I'm very impressed. Can I move there? :D Around here, people would practically line up to be the first into a new Wal-Mart supercenter. They'll happily participate in the raping of the local economy to save a few cents, all while not giving a damn. And this is a pretty wealthy area!

Wildly unrelated, conspiracy theory thought: Wal*Mart is known to have a negative effect on local economies. And of all store chains in the world, who benefits most by people being poor? The one selling the cheapest (and lowest-quality) goods... Wal*Mart. They may be the only retailer in the world whose sales go up the poorer people get.

Yep. Wal-Mart is pure evil, even more than Microsoft. Isn't it rather insidious how they coerce shoppers to participate in their own local economy's demise? Consider the facts:

- ALL FIVE of the Waltons are individually members of the top 10 richest people in the world. Think almost 5x Bill Gates!
- They pay their workers squat with crappy if any benefits.
- This is how they keep prices low to entice shoppers ... and any profits from economies of scale go straight to the Waltons, sucked right out of the local economy!
- Any place where they open up a store, the competition (whether Mom & Pop or smaller chain) generally dies because they can't/won't treat their workers poorly enough to lower prices and compete.

Granted, most of what they are doing is "fair" under the rules of capitalism -- about the only real abuse of monopoly power I can think of is the music/video censorship. But that doesn't mean it's not evil.

This is totally off topic but oh well. :p If you need any more proof that they are evil, read this (http://www.theexperiment.org/articles.php?news_id=1985). It was the straw that finally broke the camel's back, and my wife and I no longer shop there.

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by Brent Turbo
4 positives, 35 negatives.

How hypocritical. Microsoft is a monopoly that should be stopped, but fair competition in the "music store" arena is a bad thing? Hate to tell you, but monopolies suck no matter who's in charge. An Apple dominated computer world would be just as bad for everyone as a Microsoft dominated one.

Ah, finally! Someone with a mind!

Just kidding.....everyone here seems to think about things before typing.

Brent is absolutely right. A monopoly is a monopoly is a monopoly, whether or not it is run by microsoft or Apple. We **need** competition, it keeps Apple innovative!

[Macheath_Messer]

Originally posted by Brent Turbo
4 positives, 35 negatives.

Most people are voting "negative" because of Wal-Mart's predatory ways of doing things (I voted "negative" for this very reason). Some of the posts in this thread give some anecdotal evidence of Wal-Mart's effect on small towns, for example.

In my small hometown in NW Georgia, a Wal-Mart's appearing on just the outskirts of town has resulted in some closings (1 national retail store, 1 regional grocery store). Now shoppers have limited choice when it comes to buying retail merchandise, if they don't want to leave town.

My father works for a company that manufactures products that Wal-Mart sells. I had the chance to speak with one of the main fellows in Sales (way back in '95), and he told me Wal-Mart is one of the most difficult companies to deal with. They are the 800-pound gorilla of the retail market right now, and they can pretty much do what they wish.

FWIW

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by bankshot



Yep. Wal-Mart is pure evil, even more than Microsoft. Isn't it rather insidious how they coerce shoppers to participate in their own local economy's demise? Consider the facts:

- ALL FIVE of the Waltons are individually members of the top 10 richest people in the world. Think almost 5x Bill Gates!
- They pay their workers squat with crappy if any benefits.
- This is how they keep prices low to entice shoppers ... and any profits from economies of scale go straight to the Waltons, sucked right out of the local economy!
- Any place where they open up a store, the competition (whether Mom & Pop or smaller chain) generally dies because they can't/won't treat their workers poorly enough to lower prices and compete.

Granted, most of what they are doing is "fair" under the rules of capitalism -- about the only real abuse of monopoly power I can think of is the music/video censorship. But that doesn't mean it's not evil.

One quibble here: I know several people who work at my local Wal*Mart. 5 of them are full time employees, who get full time benefits: they tell me how luck they are to have primo dental, medical, and even chiropractic plans at their disposal. They frequently use their dental plan, and one broke his leg off the job and all his medical expenses were completely covered.

60% of profits are kept in the local community. My small town (8,000 people in the city, 25,000 in the entire county) has had a Wal*Mart for 8 years. The only businesses that go out of buisness are those who everyone knew would die out: card shops, a sex toy store, and one too many video rental places (my town can only support three at once). Why has my town not been subject to what you say will happen? I see no logical reason to say Wal*Mart is evil.

[Sabenth]

oK I HAVENT READ ALL THE THREAD but what i have seen so far indicates that theres censorship in walmart... Hate to say this guys but the US just seems very lacking in Freedom these days cant do this cant have that if your gona have this you need this out of that etc etc

As I am no were near Americana or my home land i will say this its a joke a big joke and i blame the Net. the reall money makers here are these so called BIG 5 RECORD LABELS .. id love to see what the contracts are for these online music stores and has anyone noticed very few of the lables are making any issues out of these sites ..

[theipodgod16]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I'm a poor college student and if you ask anyone at my school they all love that we have a Wal Mart 3 miles down the street. It's a real life saver and their grocery section is literally like Publix with a permanent 40% off on all food items.


a poor college student you say? lets just hope that you didnt steal that fully loaded brand new $2500 laptop you describe....:rolleyes:

[SiliconAddict]

When can we expect Ford to get into the Music store business. This is getting nuts. Who next? Burger King? Kemps?

[Bunzi2k4]

alright, i think toys r us, gateway, vons, ralphs, and taget are gonna have their own online music stores online. wait ther's 1 more! ther's gonna be a McDonald's Music store... hey that'b cool if u buy a supersize combo, 1 free song... not a bad idea...

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by theipodgod16
a poor college student you say? lets just hope that you didnt steal that fully loaded brand new $2500 laptop you describe....:rolleyes:

Maybe it's the laptop that made him so poor.

Ever hear of loans?????

Get off our backs, we're students!

[balconycollapse]

Someone jokingly said "my music store will beopening soon with downloads of 200 dollars"...sorry not trying to not mention your name but i don't feel like wading through the posts right now. I was thinking about this concept and honestly i think the next step is this. That's right...individual music stores, and individual band stores. Phish cringe has already done this offering songs online. Hole sold an album exclusively over the net and lots of bands release exclusive content for fans through their sites. So whats stopping artists from DIY and saying the hell with record labels i will write my own music store app, or go through Apple as just a means of distribtion and skip hard copies unless someone were to send away for it. This is what i see happening in the next 2 years or so. Mind you it will be in Newsweek as novel idea and then become a norm. Also i think another interesting concept is the idea of celebrity playlists taken further. To a celebrity music store. Like if Shaquille Oneal were to have is own music store and people would flock to it to "get" a little closer to their idol by listening to their music, but also the prestige etc involved with co branding an athlete with a musician and then pile corporate sponsorship. See where i'm going. didn't say it was good, honestly just raping and pillaging of big business but i'd subscribe to a music store run by Rivers Cuomo or Brian Wilson.

[fuge]

Wal-Mart is not evil...just like Microsoft is not evil...just like Apple is not evil.

They all have the same goal in mind: profit.

They are all guilty of squashing competition with different means.

Their growth forces others to innovate and determine the needs & desires of the consumer. (I think I read an article about a mom and pop shop that refused to go out of business so they changed their focus from "just" providing goods to providing great service and a unique experience. They succeeded.)

Competition forces innovation and better customer service. The free market society will always be based on profit and the need of the consumer. That is actually a good thing.

[macnews]

Loss leader, monopoly, evil corp, blah, blah, blah.

Everyone is jumping on the band wagon.

I know, Apple uses the music store as a loss leader for the iPod. Bulls*** I say. Right now, iPod sales are paying for some of the start up costs of itms. Maybe to investors the idea was pitched this way, but it will change. What about the post of a new Sony all in one mp3/playstation/cell phone/knife/toilet wipper? Many people were saying how the price will drop on mp3 players and this is good competition to keep Apple inovating and lower prices.

Apple will make money on iPods and I think they are going to start making money on itms. Just take some of the numbers they have put up so far. Now figure they are making $.20 a song - a resonable guess I think. Note, this is not profit, just goes to Apple to cover costs. Now, how much in more "innovation" needs to come in with itms on the mac and pc? One report I heard stated Apple expects to break even (including initial startup costs) within the first year the itms is in operation! iTMS a loss leader? Give me a break!

Yes, Walmart produces cheap stuff. I buy diapers there for a reason. I will also buy some CD's there. Since I don't buy many explicit artists, Walmart's CHOICE (not censorship - the gov't can censor, a corp doesn't have to provide you with anything they don't want to, get over it) to not offer those CD's doesn't affect me. If I can save a few pennies, great. Sounds the same to me. Would I buy something I want to last there? No, that is just me.

Walmart's online music store will probably fail. Most likely will be cheaper than anyone out there, maybe have strict DRM but may be able to come close to Apples, but will most likely not be ease to use and most importantly not fit with the majority (read MAJORITY, not ALL) of the Walmart market.

Long run is this should keep Apple honest and hopefully trying to keep the market lead. I am glad to see iPod/iTMS ads running on prime time, cable and major magazine including back covers. I don't think I have EVER seen this much Apple advertising for this long (at least 2 months and counting). Keep it up Apple. I'm sticking with iTMS and my iPod.

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
agreed, this is nuts. How many are we up to by now? Apple, napster, dell, sony (right?), walmart, buymusic.com... and I'm sure I'm forgetting many. Methinks there isn't room in the market for this many people. canada puretracks.com [stinks] microsoft in europe, us coming iBet, not to mention subscription like Rhapsody.

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by Ruthless
that is awsome i actually laughed to myself!!!! And what's wrong with Linux. Lindows stinks, but iLike Mandrake. [waits for insults]

[billyboy]

Apple arent in the game of being number one music store for the sake of being number one, it´s to breakeven and maintain a platform for profitable iPods. I dont know how cash strapped the average Walmart customer is, but if the Walmart emphasis is on the poorer end of the market then their customers arent in the market for iPods. Therefore why should Apple worry if Walmart customers dont buy their music from iTMS?

And even if Walmart sell a $1.99 music player, again, so what for Apple? The iPod has been competing against cheap music players since day one and still coming out way on top and growing.

At the moment iTMS sells 80% of all legally downloaded music, but as long as volume is maintained, the share could fall to 50% or lower as new people come in to join the "lets not make money on internet music store party". Apple will still make a load of money as the iPod continues to roll out the door and will still be able to fine tune the store.

Apple have done the hard work, they will continue to push, but let the rest work out how to catch up and make money from loss-making internet music.

[Kenny Pollock]

Jesus christ!
It seems nowadays 7-11 will wind up starting a music store, so will Subway, so will Amoco, rofl. Walmart too? That's sad.

[Chooser]

I read an article about a year ago that gave some info on how Wal-Mart actually runs it's business. It was kind of disturbing. But here are some keypoints that were discussed.

They are anti-union. If you affilliate or become unioninized you will get fired. They will find a reason, and if there is no reason then they will make one, i.e. you will get framed or set up.

Most of the products you buy in Wal-Mart were made in sweat shops.

When Wal-Mart buys their products from distributors/wholesalers they practically force them to lower their cost, thus the reason why most of the stuff you buy (except CD's/DVD's etc.) was made in sweat shops. It's the only way the distributor/wholesaler can keep from losing money on the deal.

That's all I can remember from the article.

So think of who actually made those shoes next time you buy a pair in Wal-Mart.

[leet1]

All businesses are bad in some ways, not going to stop me from shopping there, lol.

[vwcruisn]

Originally posted by fuge
Wal-Mart is not evil...just like Microsoft is not evil...just like Apple is not evil.

They all have the same goal in mind: profit.

They are all guilty of squashing competition with different means.

Their growth forces others to innovate and determine the needs & desires of the consumer. (I think I read an article about a mom and pop shop that refused to go out of business so they changed their focus from "just" providing goods to providing great service and a unique experience. They succeeded.)

Competition forces innovation and better customer service. The free market society will always be based on profit and the need of the consumer. That is actually a good thing.

You are right, it is not the corporations that are evil, but capitalism for making them that way.


The free market society will always be based on profit and the need of the consumer. That is actually a good thing.

Hmm... not sure how thats a good thing :confused: Corporate swines, raping the planet to make a buck... stepping on anything and anyone that gets in their way... yea thats great :rolleyes:

[ashes]

ADBUSTERS (http://adbusters.org)

[Dangerboy]

If Wal Mart enters the online music distribution business, it'll use the same techniques, on the record companies, it uses to bludgeon their suppliers into giving them lower prices than anyone else. And I think, as people who are used to the quality of service the iTunes Music Store offers, you should be very worried.

Not too long ago, NPR ran a series about Wal Mart. Apparently, they sell the most dog food out of anyone else in the dog food business. But Purina still cuts them a deal because of the sheer marketshare they control. Rather than the supplier dictating the price of their product, the retailer is.

It's not out of line from my past experience. When I was working for a buying agency in Taiwan, one of the things that was known was that Wal Mart had cut lower deals with the shippers... again, because of their Death Star-caliber market share.

I don't shop at Wal Mart. I don't consider myself a bomb-throwing anarchist, but I don't believe in the way they do business, with forcing out smaller mom-and-pops and that they are fiercly anti-union. I don't like the quality of their goods, the fact that they seem to ram "family values" down the throats of people who *have* to shop there, and frankly, the whole store seems like a cult (with the guy greeting you at the door, the Nuremberg-esque shift cheers and those creepy blue aprons). If you think MS is bad, Wal Mart is the Emperor from Star Wars and Sauron rolled into one big bad enchilada.

But that doesn't mean that everyone thinks like I do. They didn't get to be where they are without a lot of customers. And for whatever my problems are with this company, many of these people don't share them -- for whatever reason, lots of people *like* the fact that they carry "clean" CDs. And with all of those potential customers, they could reshape the online music distribution system and the price structure of hard disc and/or flash-based players. It might not be as user-friendly and it might not be of the same quality, but if history has taught us anything, it's that quality does not necessarily win when compared to cheap (Beta vs. VHS, Mac OS vs. Windows).

Reading the posts, it seems that most of you, as well, also sees the "evilness" of Wal Mart, or at least, it's a shining example as predator of profit by any means necessary. Hell, most of you have Macs, so you're far from Wal Mart's target demo -- what do you think the chances are Wal Mart's going to carry a G5?

For the time being, it seems that Wal Mart's attempts at on-line retailing haven't been very successful. But given their history, it's something that deserves more thought and concern than blowing them off as "evil" and that in the end, it doesn't matter because Cleetus shops there for his Lindows PC.

[giba]

This music downloading craze is getting out of hand.... next we'll see mcdonald's and general motors jumping on this bandwagon.

[avus]

It is funny that Walmart and Microsoft were categorized as evils here (maybe true, maybe not) but I find it more ironic that this was reported by the NEW YORK ******* POST owned by Rupert Murdoch.

[Dangerboy]

Also, just an aside -- Yes, I do realize all companies exploit in one way or another. But it doesn't mean I have to like it and take it from the worst of the bunch.

[ITR 81]

Originally posted by bankshot
Wow. I'm very impressed. Can I move there? :D Around here, people would practically line up to be the first into a new Wal-Mart supercenter. They'll happily participate in the raping of the local economy to save a few cents, all while not giving a damn. And this is a pretty wealthy area!



Yep. Wal-Mart is pure evil, even more than Microsoft. Isn't it rather insidious how they coerce shoppers to participate in their own local economy's demise? Consider the facts:

- ALL FIVE of the Waltons are individually members of the top 10 richest people in the world. Think almost 5x Bill Gates!
- They pay their workers squat with crappy if any benefits.
- This is how they keep prices low to entice shoppers ... and any profits from economies of scale go straight to the Waltons, sucked right out of the local economy!
- Any place where they open up a store, the competition (whether Mom & Pop or smaller chain) generally dies because they can't/won't treat their workers poorly enough to lower prices and compete.

Granted, most of what they are doing is "fair" under the rules of capitalism -- about the only real abuse of monopoly power I can think of is the music/video censorship. But that doesn't mean it's not evil.

This is totally off topic but oh well. :p If you need any more proof that they are evil, read this (http://www.theexperiment.org/articles.php?news_id=1985). It was the straw that finally broke the camel's back, and my wife and I no longer shop there.



Wow folks don't know much about Wally World. Actually Walton was richest but when he died it went to all his children which didn't really know how to handle the business.

Locally here which is small college town and we have no mama and pop shops because they shut down over 5-10 yrs ago before wal-mart ever came near our town.

If you work at Wal-Mart here you get best benifits more then I ever got for working for Verizon DSL. Managers jobs here get paid 50K or more on avg. That avg is same as someone working in the Mall here gets. Also I have friend that works there and they started making $8.50 an hr with full benefits. They are now making $11.50 an hr after working yr there.

The company that actually put out alot Ma and Pa shops was K-Mart..which has recently closed most of it's stores down now due to all the new Super Targets and Super Center Wal-Marts/SAMs


The Super Center next to us includes a strip mall and SAM's Wholesale.

Most this info people spout off is not even true as I should know because I friends and family work at Wal-Mart. Maybe it's not the best in some places but here you can do almost do anything in one like buy *Krispy Kreme* doughnuts fresh and get free wifi connections and etc.

A friend came down once from up state NY and like everyone that see it gets all "wow" because they never seen anything like it. Plus, seeing Porsches, Mercs, and Bimmers all over the parking lot makes people think wow these people must shop here.

I probably won't buy their music but I will not let folks spread mis-information about them because alot folks think they are just too good to shop at Wal-Mart let alone a Dollar Bill Store.

[ITR 81]

Originally posted by Chooser
I read an article about a year ago that gave some info on how Wal-Mart actually runs it's business. It was kind of disturbing. But here are some keypoints that were discussed.

They are anti-union. If you affilliate or become unioninized you will get fired. They will find a reason, and if there is no reason then they will make one, i.e. you will get framed or set up.

Most of the products you buy in Wal-Mart were made in sweat shops.

When Wal-Mart buys their products from distributors/wholesalers they practically force them to lower their cost, thus the reason why most of the stuff you buy (except CD's/DVD's etc.) was made in sweat shops. It's the only way the distributor/wholesaler can keep from losing money on the deal.

That's all I can remember from the article.

So think of who actually made those shoes next time you buy a pair in Wal-Mart.

Ok in the SE most don't want Unions because of the few Unions that did get in all they did was end up losing folks their jobs. Our state has said a many times it does not support Unions and if your in a Union go live somewhere else. Unions in the past put alot my friends dads and moms out of work because they had to strike. Company just replaced them all with non-union workers. Then eventually the Union just gives up and says THANKS FOR PLAYING...it usually works in other states.

Sweatshops? Ok if your shoes were made in China, Tiawan or Korea then around 80% of your shoes are made in sweatshop. My mil. buddy said he can get his Vans really cheap at one those shops if he pays a kid extra for them. Total set of new kicks $10 bucks.

[Genie]

I doubt there'll be much interesting independent stuff at WalMart.

[rdowns]

Surprised no one has mentioned this. Since Walmart primarily caters to lower income shoppers, wouldn't it stand to reason they are mostly dial up Internet users, if they use the Internet at all? Buying music on dial up is DOA.

[ITR 81]

So it's not DOA. I will be Dialup until I get my directway installed because I'm 1 mile from nearest CO which mean Cable and DSL are both out of the question. And if you ask when we will get them probably sometime in 2005 or 2006. I'm not waiting that long.

[Centris 650]

I think I'll hop on that bandwagon and start my own online music store.

Who will be next? Radio Shack?

[jocknerd]

Originally posted by sethypoo

Just to add: I've probably purchased the majority of my CD's from retail places like Wal*Mart and Fred Meyer. I don't think it's very fair to say that they "suck." Many small town folks depend on them.

The small town folks depend on them only because they run all the small town shops out of business. Eventually they are the only store left.

[billyboy]

Those friendly guys at MacDonalds are going to give away 1 BILLION tunes. Suddenly 100 million looks paltry. Great publicity for online music though, and unless they have a good music player and management option of their own, there will be one billion tunes hinting "iPod".

EDIT EDIT I re-read the article and it sounds as though they are talking 1 billion iTUNES !!!!!!!

[ITR 81]

How many times do I have to say it's not Wal-Marts ran folks out it's also K-Marts and any other major outlet like Target.
If Wal-Marts ran folks out business how come Wal-Marts here has strip mall attached to it with nothing but small ma and pa shops???

[Tulse]

Yep, McDonald's will be giving away one billion iTunes songs.

Here's the text of the NYPost article (http://www.nypost.com/business/10067.htm).

If he pulls this off, Steve is a frickin' genius.

(This is also very interesting because McDonald's contract for soft drinks is with Coke, not Pepsi...)

Hoody-hoo!

[Trimix]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
So when will we be seeing a McDonald's music store? This is insane, everyone seems to be starting a music selling service now.

Have you seen this ?

Reuters
McDonald's planning iTunes giveaway - report
Thursday November 6, 7:56 am ET

NEW YORK, Nov 6 (Reuters) - McDonald's Corp. (NYSE:MCD - News) plans to give away up to 1 billion songs to customers after PepsiCo Inc. (NYSE:PEP - News) announced a deal to give away 100 million downloads from Apple's iTunes music service, the New York Post said on Thursday.
Both the soft-drink maker and the fast-food company are paying Apple's (NasdaqNM:AAPL - News) retail price of 99 cents per song in their marketing campaigns, The Post reported, citing unnamed sources.

But because not all customers will take advantage of the offer, McDonald's spending on the campaign will probably be in the hundreds of millions of dollars, the report said.

McDonald's and Apple officials were not immediately available to comment.

[gwuMACaddict]

there are a few things that concern me about this.

1. walmart is notorious for censuring music. will they continue to do this with their online store?
2. this whole online music scheme doesnt seem to fit in with their whole demographic if you ask me. (and i'm not tryning to start more stupid walmart fights- i shop there once in a while)
3. the music companies must be making sweet dough from all these music services. and i wouldnt doubt if they are making more now than when they were just selling cds. think about it- they could sell rights to at leat 5 different providers.

[the_mole1314]

What next? Is Costco going to start selling music online? Geeze. There isn't money in online music, if you can't sell something else, why then do you start it up? iTunes MS was set up to sell iPods, Napster's service to sell the Napster player, and same for Buymusic.com (*shutter*).

[onemoof]

Wal-Mart is not evil, it is just the most efficient company in the world. Every last penny is accounted for because Sam Walton was one of the cheapest, penny-pinching guys in the world.

Small towns are not hurt by Wal-Mart as long as stores are willing to adapt. For example, if they move to upscale merchandise they will be differentiated from Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart also does not sell every product made. Small stores will die if they are unwilling to make changes.

They will probably cut special deals with the music labels to get the lowest prices on songs which may allow them to compete. The fact that they only sell censored music allows opportunities for other companies.

[Genie]

WalMart is a friendly face on the corporate takeover of the world.;)

[the_mole1314]

Originally posted by onemoof
Wal-Mart is not evil, it is just the most efficient company in the world. Every last penny is accounted for because Sam Walton was one of the cheapest, penny-pinching guys in the world.

Small towns are not hurt by Wal-Mart as long as stores are willing to adapt. For example, if they move to upscale merchandise they will be differentiated from Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart also does not sell every product made. Small stores will die if they are unwilling to make changes.

They will probably cut special deals with the music labels to get the lowest prices on songs which may allow them to compete. The fact that they only sell censored music allows opportunities for other companies.

It's not that simple. Walmart gives VERY low pay and very little benifits to their employees. Whenever a Wal-Mart opens, something happens called the Wal-Mart effect. While the prices drop at the local store, so do employee wages and benifits, and many times quality plumits just to keep up the bottom line.

Wal-Mart is pure evil.

[fuge]

Originally posted by vwcruisn
You are right, it is not the corporations that are evil, but capitalism for making them that way.

Hmm... not sure how thats a good thing :confused: Corporate swines, raping the planet to make a buck... stepping on anything and anyone that gets in their way... yea thats great :rolleyes:

It's not capitalism it is greed. Capitalism actually benefits both parties, seller and buyer. Greed causes the seller to take advantage of the buyer.

It's a good thing for consumers. Are you a consumer? If you are then you contribute to the corporate swines raping the planet. Roll your eyes all you want but tell me how you don't contribute to greedy capitalism.

[ITR 81]

Originally posted by the_mole1314
It's not that simple. Walmart gives VERY low pay and very little benifits to their employees. Whenever a Wal-Mart opens, something happens called the Wal-Mart effect. While the prices drop at the local store, so do employee wages and benifits, and many times quality plumits just to keep up the bottom line.

Wal-Mart is pure evil.

BS if you call 8-12 dollars an hr low pay I want to know what your smoking. They make more money then most folks that work at the mall shops. They get full benifits and I should know I have friends and family that work there. Manager make on avg 40-50k a yr starting out. To me that is not bad pay at all. Only part timers don't get all the benifits but I don't know what company gives part timers full benifits anyway.

I swear most folks most just read whatever they find on the net and believe it true. You should actually talk to someone that works full time at Wal-Marts. The current manager here brings in around 60k a yr now after only a yr and half on the job.

[Bunzi2k4]

... wow people... it seems that every1 here hates wal*mart...? i've only been to a wallmart like twice (the closest to a wal*mart around here is like a 20 minute drive). i think a walmart comes out soon... i don't see why people hate it but ok...

[Sayhey]

I have never set foot in a Walmart and don't ever plan to change that policy. I would much rather pay a few cents more and support my local retailer. If Apple resellers performed the same role as the Apple stores I'd feel the same way about them.

What gets me is that Walmart must be looking at taking a loss in the online music business to make more money elsewhere, but how? They don't put out an iPod equivilant and I don't see how this is going to bring more people into their stores. So why do this? More brand recognition for Walmart? It may undercut a lot of the other services but have no tangible benefit to their overall sales. What kind of business strategy is that?

[Kid Red]

Hurray!! WalMart will sell downloadable censored songs cheap just like they do at their stores!

[Phil Of Mac]

If Wal-Mart only sells censored tracks, then people will buy from the competition. Simple as that.

As for Wal-Mart's business practices, it's funny that no one ever says that the mom and pop stores are price-gouging you. Because they are. They can't buy in enough volume to give you a fair price. Wal-Mart can. And they sell you a decent product too.

I buy stuff from Wal-Mart. Even clothes. In Port Angeles, once Wal-Mart came, our local general store, Swain's, swung to another market: Carhartt-wearing hicks. Just how the spread of Blockbusters throughout the country caused local video rental stores to turn to porn.

As for unions, they're often worse than employers. They tend to encourage promotion based on seniority, not talent or skill. They often collude with the government or their employers in some way; there have been cases of unions going on strike in order to constrain demand, thus raising prices and making profits for their employers.

In conclusion, capitalism isn't evil, and while Wal-Mart might be, it hasn't been proven yet. And we're already so far from capitalism that you can't really compare what we have today with capitalism.

[Docrjm]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
So when will we be seeing a McDonald's music store? This is insane, everyone seems to be starting a music selling service now.

Can I supersize that and would you like our homestyle fries?:D

[Docrjm]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
If Wal-Mart only sells censored tracks, then people will buy from the competition. Simple as that.

As for Wal-Mart's business practices, it's funny that no one ever says that the mom and pop stores are price-gouging you. Because they are. They can't buy in enough volume to give you a fair price. Wal-Mart can. And they sell you a decent product too.

I buy stuff from Wal-Mart. Even clothes. In Port Angeles, once Wal-Mart came, our local general store, Swain's, swung to another market: Carhartt-wearing hicks. Just how the spread of Blockbusters throughout the country caused local video rental stores to turn to porn.

As for unions, they're often worse than employers. They tend to encourage promotion based on seniority, not talent or skill. They often collude with the government or their employers in some way; there have been cases of unions going on strike in order to constrain demand, thus raising prices and making profits for their employers.

In conclusion, capitalism isn't evil, and while Wal-Mart might be, it hasn't been proven yet. And we're already so far from capitalism that you can't really compare what we have today with capitalism.
Hey, lets just hire some more cheap illegals, work them like dogs and sell it all nice and cheap. Great business plan. PS where do we get the illegal servers??

[Docrjm]

Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
there are a few things that concern me about this.

1. walmart is notorious for censuring music. will they continue to do this with their online store?
2. this whole online music scheme doesnt seem to fit in with their whole demographic if you ask me. (and i'm not tryning to start more stupid walmart fights- i shop there once in a while)
3. the music companies must be making sweet dough from all these music services. and i wouldnt doubt if they are making more now than when they were just selling cds. think about it- they could sell rights to at leat 5 different providers.
Do they still sell bullets?
If so does the occasional swear word cause more harm than a bolus dose of lead delivered at high speed?????





edited spelling error on bolus.

[Les Kern]

Slightly off-topic, but:
Folks talk about a visceral hatred of Microsoft. They're looking in the wrong place. Wal-Mart, by its arrogant and cruel employment practices and desire to make money at all costs, is, I think, a MUCH bigger evil. I don't step foot in them, and I think the folks behind that slave labor will one day find themselves sitting right besides Hitler. Think I'm going way over the top here? Just read these two, then investigate both "sides" on your own. When and if you do, your hard work will take you deeper and deeper into what's screwed up about our country, and you might wind up pretty damned pissed off.
Make copies, go to Wal-Mart, and drop a few off. Mail them to friends out of the area so they can do the same. Won't do it? See, THAT'S what's wrong with us. No outrage, just slaves. (Think I'm a left-wing nut-case? You'd be VERY wrong)

excerpted from "Thieves In High Places"
I hail from a small business family – my daddy and momma ran both a wholesale
magazine operation and the Main Street News in Denison, Texas. And to paraphrase George W, I also know about small business people, because "I are one" – my Saddle-Burr Productions is a small (bordering on tiny) enterprise that develops my books, radio work, newsletter, columns, speaking, and whatever other trouble I can stir up with pen and mouth.
So, in the spirit of full consumer disclosure, I’m biased for local, independent, unique, smallish business. But there are a host of unbiased reasons for saying that we ought not let the giant chains remake our local economies. One is price. I don’t mean the pricetag on the products, but the exorbitant price we pay for Wal-Mart’s "low price" model. Such
companies are predators, hitting neighborhoods and towns like a neutron bomb, leaving buildings standing, but sucking out all of the economic and democratic vitality. Wal-Mart concedes that when it comes to town, it’s out to eliminate competitors. Any store it opens can crush our local groceries, pharmacies, hardware stores, clothiers, and other retailers, not by being more efficient (and damned sure not with super service), but
by slashing its prices below what it pays for the products – a tactic known as
[WARNING: TECHNICAL TERM APPROACHING] "predatory pricing."
I hear your mind whirring. With my supersensory perception, I can hear you thinking, What’re you talking about, Hightower? Even Wal-Mart can’t sell below cost and stay in business. No trick to it. Wal-Mart has 4,400 stores. It can lose money at the one in your area ‘til the cows come home and not hurt its company-wide bottom line one bit. But
your local stores don’t have a global network of stores to subsidize them, so Wal-Mart
can just sit on top of them with a losing hand… and still win. This isn’t competition –
it’s mugging. And when it’s over, when the local competitors are bled to death, this Wal-Mart store’s prices rise. Then, the dollars you spend there are used to subsidize another mugging down the road. I’m hearing you again. You’re saying, Give me a for-instance on this predatory pricing thing, or I won’t believe that those nice friendly country people from Arkansas would do such a thing. Right you are. Check out Wal-Mart’s gas pumps, now in the parking lots
of 700 of its stores and soon to spring up like dandelions all across Wal-Martland…
assuming its lobbyists can change the laws. The company is selling gasoline at prices below what it pays to get it into the pumps. Eddie, or Felipe, or Maybelle, or Khanh, or Royce, or whoever’s selling the gas down the road can’t do that – they don’t have the deep pockets to match a losing price. How do I know Wal-Mart is doing this? Because several states have laws against it and, rather than comply, Wal-Mart is openly trying to repeal the laws, essentially claiming a right to kill its competitors by predatory pricing. Caught selling below cost in Florida, where it’s illegal, Wal-Mart has launched a lobbying and petition drive to make it legal. Likewise in Oklahoma, Wal-Mart was caught and has run to federal court,
claiming a constitutional right to kill competition.
Well, I hear you saying, at least Wal-Mart is a job creator for our communities. Sorry, no. By crushing local businesses, this giant eliminates three decent jobs for every two poorly-paid, part-time, high-turnover Wal-Mart jobettes that it creates. It’s an extractor of community wealth, not a creator. It doesn’t buy locally. It doesn’t bank locally. It
doesn’t advertise locally. In Kirksville, Missouri, a Wal-Mart SuperCenter opened a few years ago. In short order, four clothing stores, four grocery stores, a stationary store, a fabric store, and a
lawn-and-garden center were gone. And with their demise, the Kirksville Daily Express has lost major ad revenue and is struggling. Townspeople now go to Wal-Mart, or have to leave town to shop.
The SuperCenter sits there on the edge of Kirksville like a demonic tombstone sucking up local money and channeling it to Bentonville, where a portion of it can be used as capital for Wal-Mart’s assault on the next Kirksville. By dictating a new economy for low-wage workers, Wal-Mart and its corporate disciples are not merely cutting their wholesale prices, they’re doing something far more radical and dangerous to America’s social equilibrium: They are cutting themselves loose
from America’s two-century old quest for an egalitarian society. Let me put it in real-life terms: They are abandoning the notion that the middle class is essential to America.
And since Wal-Mart is by far the biggest employer and is capable of compelling so
many other major corporations to take the low-wage road, the upshot of their actions is that America itself is abandoning its middle-class pretensions and possibilities. Thanks to this shift, the fastest growing class in America is the working poor. For decades, our
country’s social cohesion has been grounded in a broad agreement that full-time work will afford you a middle-class slice. The Wal-Mart model breaks that agreement – its own "associates" can’t afford to buy a Ford on Wal-Mart pay.
How long do they think they can hold down so many hard-working people?
Already, the rebellion is simmering within the belly of the beast. The company tries to hide it, and the media rarely probes (whatever happened to the idea of the "inquiring reporter," anyway?) but those happy little "associates" have been hauling Wal-Mart’s corpulent hulk into court constantly. It’s the most sued corporation in the country, facing
more than 5,000 actions per year (almost 14 a day - for everything ranging from disability discrimination to sex discrimination to "off-the-clock" payroll fraud!), for it is an unrepentant, recidivist criminal, routinely violating practically all employee rights and all of America’s labor laws.
All of this from a corporation banking $250 billion a year and sending a steady torrent of cash into the coffers of "Simple Sam" Walton’s five heirs, who already are billionaires.

[Robertk2012]

ok say walmart puts every other business in a city out of business. Big deal, walmart will then be the only employer so what they sell depends on the wages they pay their employees. ;) Im not a fan of walmart especially with the gas thing but their effeciency is what makes their profits. So what if after they kill the competition they raise prices to just slightly below what the prices of goods were before they came. Oh so they turn 3 jobs into 2. Good productivity boost there freeing up an additional (mostly educated) worker for a job that requires skilled labor. Look at the workers next time you are in walmart. Do you really believe they should be making 50,000- 100,000 a year. I thought not.

[Les Kern]

Originally posted by Robertk2012
Big deal....

That's a reply that they hope to hear, and work hard to promote. I'm not a communist, or a socialist, but I do believe in a greater good for our country. Wal-Mart does not. At the one near here they are even eliminating MORE $6.00 an hour jobs by installing auto-checkout lanes, where you do everything yourself. So now we have other stores and supermarkets closing depressing the area, with fewer jobs in the area because of mobility issues. Remember when Wal-Mart proudly boasted that they would "buy American"? Not now. There was a directive sent that said buyers will concentrate on foriegn-made goods because of the prices. So now they are taking jobs away nationally. As for your comment about looking at the workers next time I'm in there... well that's just great. I guess you think there are disposable people and we shouldn't care about them. Niether does Wal-Mart; here's a good one: At the Wal-Mart in my town recently an associate was severely injured when they were struck by a car in the parking lot. Wal-Marts policy is to catch shoplifters at any cost. So the worker ran after one, was struck by the shoplifters, THEN Wal-Mart didn't want to pay the medical bills, saying the worker, though following company policy, was careless. They quickly relented after THAT bit of news hit the street, but it gives you an idea of where their REAL interest lies... the almighty dollar and happy investors.
All of their stores should be burned to the ground by the people who live near one.

[solvs]

Originally posted by Bunzi2k4
alright, i think toys r us, gateway, vons, ralphs, and taget are gonna have their own online music stores online.

Actually, Gateway already had one. Came out right before iTunes. Wonder how they're doing?

[Robertk2012]

When you do away with a job you increase the productivity of your country. The higher your productivity the better off your country is overall. This is a good loss of jobs, that will be replaced by others in a growing economy. Just think if we never has these increases in productivity them we would all still be growing our own garden a making our own clothes. Computers wouldnt even exist. The increases in productivity that are drove by profits is what makes capitalism work and is why socialism doesnt. This can also be seen in the perscription drug market. If we force makers to decrease prices then there will be less incentive to creat new drugs. Short term you are better off but long term you are shooting yourself in the foot.

[Les Kern]

Originally posted by Robertk2012
Short term you are better off but long term you are shooting yourself in the foot.

I agree somewhat. This isn't a question about productivity, even though US workers are still #1 in the world due to the big corporations demand for it, partly due to a fear of losing one's job because of it... it isn't about those new jobs being created, because in fact the latest jobless rate, when parsed out, shows a huge increase in service jobs and a huge decrease in manufacturing jobs... it isn't even about a capitalism vs. socialism discussion. It's about what is good and decent, and the role that huge, incredibly powerful corporations have over us. How can you say that it's a "good loss of jobs"? Wal-Mart causes small and mostly family-owned business to go under by selling cheap foriegn goods Americans don't even make, than those people go... where? To work at Wal-Mart? It doesn't necessarily mean one is a socialist to ask this one, small favor; that the money-hungry giants put forth an OUNCE of decency toward the fine people that work for them instead of concentrating on shareholders. It's class warfare, and I will do whatever it takes to help people look at the other side.

[Robertk2012]

ok you know those mom and pop store owners always have the option of investing their money in walmart instead of their company.....The job gains are going to be in service as the gains in manufacturing came from agriculture job losses. This is just a new phase in our economy. The increase of automization decreases the need for employees in manufacturing, the same way machinery decreased the need for employees in agriculture.......Its going to be even more noticible in the future. Just imagine robots building robots that build more robots that manufacture our goods.......Just because there is change doesnt mean it is bad. Oh and what are the faimly owned businesses that are being put out of business by Walmart? Kmart? Large grocery chains? Dont try to call it class warfare because it isnt. Anyone can buy stock in an American Corporation. If you are an inteligent individual I imagine Walmart wouldnt mind you working your way up through their ranks. One last though... the last time I was in walmart I didnt seen anyone who might have been a former store owner. Some of the people there where probally lucky they had a job.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Les Kern
At the one near here they are even eliminating MORE $6.00 an hour jobs by installing auto-checkout lanes, where you do everything yourself.

Good! We need more engineers and artists and writers and less menial laborers.

[Robertk2012]

See someone has the right idea.

[mjconnor]

One thing important to note about America being #1 in productivity is that we barely are #1. Europe is within 1-2% of us.

The interesting thing is that they come so close to us considering they get 5 weeks of paid vacation annually, along with more holdiays, sick days, etc. They also work around 34 hours a week. In the U.S., the average vacation taken each year is seven days, regardless of how much vacation workers have actually earned. Let's not even mention how many hours a week Americans work.

Could it be that people who are rested and have a semblance of a personal life actually achieve nearly as much as U.S. workers do, while they work over one month a year less, and during that time work 25% fewer hours a week?

Nah, that can't be, 'cause them's a bunch of socialists over there. And besides, America is always #1 no matter what (even when it isn't.) And anybody that says different is one of them NPR commies.

[Robertk2012]

Dude what are you smoking? We are by far number 1. Am I going to have to mail you one of my economics books. Germany may be close but they are the only european country within a earshot.

[Phil Of Mac]

Japan, where workaholism is the national religion, ranks pretty highly too.

[Robertk2012]

you cant just look at the averages per worker either. You have to consider that unemployment here is much lower than in europe. Oh and Japan I suppose there economy is on fire. What I dont get is we are haveing a downturn in the economy while averaging 3-4% gains in GDP and unemployment in the 6% range. What the hell is wrong with that. The last numbers on GDP showed 7.2% growth.

[Phil Of Mac]

Japan's been in a recession for almost a decade. They've had their interest rates bottomed out for a long time.

[Dros]

Originally posted by Robertk2012
Dude what are you smoking? We are by far number 1. Am I going to have to mail you one of my economics books. Germany may be close but they are the only european country within a earshot.

I tried to look this up... here are some bits I found on the web:

"Six European countries showed higher productivity than the U.S. in 2002, as compared to four in 1990. The six were Norway, Belgium, France, Ireland, the Netherlands, and Germany, with Denmark in a virtual tie with the U.S. at number seven.
“One needs to be a bit careful in looking at the productivity rankings for particular years,” says Bart van Ark, co-author of the study and Consulting Director for The Conference Board’s international research program. “While the rankings are relatively stable and reflect long-term structural factors, short-term shifts can come from cyclical shifts can form cyclical shifts or small changes for countries closely ranked. For example, the U.S. ranking fell to 10th in 2001, reflecting the depth of its recession.”"

Different source:
"Japan ranked 19th among 28 industrialized members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in terms of productivity as of 1999, up only one notch from 20th in the previous year, a think tank said Wednesday."

I found both of these surprising.