How does the Apple TV compare to the Xbox 360?

[jjmancini]

Hey everyone!

I was curious if anyone has any experience with BOTH Apple TV and the Xbox 360, and I am curious which one you think is better for simply watching movies from my mac. Thanks!

Fargonaut
www.VanillaHD.com (http://www.VanillaHD.com)

[psychofreak]

The Apple UI is MUCH nicer, but without hacking (unless you buy movies from the iTS) the 360 allows more codecs.

I know you asked about movies, but the 360 is pretty awful for music organisation.

[applemax]

From personal Experience - 'ready to play' times for rental movies are as follows:

:apple:tv = Instantly
Xbox 360 = 35 mins

[Zwhaler]

Someone I know has a PS3, 360 and Apple TV, and he uses the :apple:TV for just about everything, and the PS3 for some other things (Blu Ray, and some media), and the 360 for only games.

[yadmonkey]

If you're not looking for games, I'd say skip the 360. The hardware is way too unreliable and I say this as a rabid 360 fan. The games are unbelievable and very worthwhile, but I've had three new consoles go bad on me.

[BoulderBum]

XBox is noisy and has far fewer rentals from the Live store. I think you can use more comprehensive services like CinemaNow, though. The XBox also acts as a "Media Extender" which is great if you record TV with a Media Center PC (so you can watch it on your TV), and it's possible for third parties to extend the Media Extender interface with plug-ins (that let you control the lighting of your automated home).

The XBox's primary advantage, though, is games! Apple TV just can't play any.

I tried using a colleague's the other day, and something else I found is that the firewall configuration was much more complex that with Apple TV (which I just had to plug in and forget). In fact, trying to get the Media Extender going with the XBox hung my system multiple times, requiring a reboot to restablish network access.

The Apple TV, on the other hand, offers a broad selection of movies from probably the best rental service on the internet right now, it is the only device which can synch with or stream your iTunes library, and you also get (underrated) perks like Flickr photo streaming, YouTube videos and video Podcasts, none of which are available through the XBox 360.

I think the Apple TV is much better for video entertainment.

[supercooled]

If you're not looking for games, I'd say skip the 360. The hardware is way too unreliable and I say this as a rabid 360 fan. The games are unbelievable and very worthwhile, but I've had three new consoles go bad on me.

I would offer the same advice as this person. The Xbox360 is a horrible machine for anything other than playing games. It's unreliable and to a much greater detriment to your experience, it's too damn loud. The AppleTV is dead silent but is crippled as it is right now. Let's face it, without hacking it is pretty limiting. I am subsequently looking forward to buying a Mac Mini and possibly selling the ATV off or use the Mini to manage the content which is something the ATV should be doing in the first place.

[abmet]

As others have said the 360 is great for games, but is fairly loud. The 360 can play different formats, but the fast forward, pause, etc. is iffy at best (at least for me) and tends to have much more lag than the ATV.

[cmcbridejr]

I bought an AppleTV when it came out.

It is a great device for viewing photos, listening to your iTunes music, and integrating the movies from iTunes with your TV.

The UI can be a little slow and unresponsive at times (from the moment of pushing a button on the remote control to the time it takes to respond on the AppleTV).

The remote control is very basic. You will either like it or really hate it.

As far as comparing the XBox to the AppleTV, I just don't think they should be compared with each other as they are not meant for the same purpose.

The XBox is a high-end gaming machine with multimedia capabilities.

The AppleTV is just a headless iPod that connects to your TV and syncs your iTunes library wirelessly.

Also, the progression of the AppleTV has been quite slow. I see so much potential for the AppleTV, but Apple is treating it like the iPhone and not allowing anyone to expand the functionality.

Hopefully, Apple will eventually come around to supporting its development like they did with the iPhone.

[Jeff Hall]

I have both. I use the 360 to watch XVid and other file formats that aren't readily available to play on the Apple TV (avi files encoded with DivX, etc). I stream my media to the 360 using a program called Connect360 from Null River.

The 360 console interface sucks for navigating but it does a decent job of playing video and music.

I prefer to use the Apple TV over the 360.

[slapppy]

ATV of course. Fan noise is one thing you won't even hear on it. Thats one thing I cannot stand in my home theater setup.

[err404]

I stream my media to the 360 using a program called Connect360 from Null River.

The 360 console interface sucks for navigating but it does a decent job of playing video and music.

A far as I know, Connect 360 does not yet support organization of videos. This is why the 360 Navigation sucks for you.
There are better UPNP servers for the MAC. I use Twonky Media Server right now and the navigation is great if you have an organized file structure for your library.
I find the interface very close to the AppleTV. For example on my 360 I just select
-Videos
--TV Shows
---desired show
----desired episode

The only things missing are cover art, show details and the previously viewed indicator.

That said the Apple TV UI is better, but not by much. I use both regularly, but I am trying to use the Apple TV more as my video library in iTunes is growing. I am using the 360 less, but there is a lot to be said for better codec support.

In a perfect world Apple would just support DivX and the problem would be solved. h.264 while efficient is not much of 'standard'. Due to differences in supported profiles, you just can't encode a high quality video with h.264 that will play on a 360, PS3 and AppleTV. DivX is a much more reliable standard for play back compatibility.

[jjmancini]

What about video quality?
Does anyone use the Apple TV on a 1080p set? And also, aren't all of the movies that are downloadable for the Apple TV 720p?

It seems as though the overall presentation of the Xbox 360 is better as far as video and audio, even though the user interface is slow and clunky. But I would rather have better content...

[Alx9876]

Way too much Xbox360 bashing going on here.

Alot of these folks know alot about Apple tv but when you compare the 360's HD movie rentals to Apple TV's ?

Xbox 360 is the clear winner in HD Quality through the Tv set. The Xbox movies are usually at 4 gigs to 7.5 gigs in file size depending on what you rent.

The Apple tv files are much smaller but video quality lacks in a major way. I actually did a thread about this very topic a long time ago.

Since then I picked up a 40 gig Apple tv and I love the fact that I can encode my personal dvd's to this machine.

But right now the question is about video quality?

To the other poster who mentioned the Xbox fan noise, I will admit it's loud, you can't hear it when the home theater system is turned up. Not even during quiet moments in the movie can you hear it. So that is not a problem at all. So stop nick picking. Too many wives do that already. Don't be like them.

Most of you need to stick to the OP's original question and stop answering questions were never asked in the first place.

No one cares about the fan noise, the reliability, the Microsoft vs Apple b.s. etc.. etc..

It's strictly about video quality. For me I am happy using hand brake and doing my thing with my dvd collection. It works. That's all I want. But that is a different topic for another day.

Most of you probably never had experience renting movies in HD from Xbox live anyway.

[ebony]

Way too much Xbox360 bashing going on here.

Alot of these folks know alot about Apple tv but when you compare the 360's HD movie rentals to Apple TV's ?

Xbox 360 is the clear winner in HD Quality through the Tv set. The Xbox movies are usually at 4 gigs to 7.5 gigs in file size depending on what you rent.

The Apple tv files are much smaller but video quality lacks in a major way. I actually did a thread about this very topic a long time ago.

Since then I picked up a 40 gig Apple tv and I love the fact that I can encode my personal dvd's to this machine.

But right now the question is about video quality?

To the other poster who mentioned the Xbox fan noise, I will admit it's loud, you can't hear it when the home theater system is turned up. Not even during quiet moments in the movie can you hear it. So that is not a problem at all. So stop nick picking. Too many wives do that already. Don't be like them.

Most of you need to stick to the OP's original question and stop answering questions were never asked in the first place.

No one cares about the fan noise, the reliability, the Microsoft vs Apple b.s. etc.. etc..

It's strictly about video quality. For me I am happy using hand brake and doing my thing with my dvd collection. It works. That's all I want. But that is a different topic for another day.

Most of you probably never had experience renting movies in HD from Xbox live anyway.

The OPs original question was which " one is simply better for watching videos" . Now for me this includes sound and vision.

My experience of the 4 xbox 360s I have had, and the dozen or so I have seen in other peoples homes, is that they are too noisy to comfortably watch a movie, without the noise of the 360 interfering with the viewing experience.

This is just in my opinion and a lot is based on position of the 360, type of film being watched, audio setup etc.

I think you should take all the valid points, Alx9876 makes, but don't disregard the extent of the noise that comes from the 360.

[err404]

I think you should take all the valid points, Alx9876 makes, but don't disregard the extent of the noise that comes from the 360.

Ultimately it was the noise level of the 360 that lead me to buy an AppleTV. Here is summary of the two as objective as possible:

Video:
360
Pros-Supports higher bitrates and resolution, DVD player included, better codec support
Cons-DivX does not work when not connected to Live

AppleTV
.Pros-High quality playback
.Cons-Flaky h.264 codec support. Poor codec support

Audio:
360
.Pros-5.1 via WMA and AC3
.Cons-AC3 implementation is a bit of a hack
AppleTV
.Pros-5.1 via AC3
.Cons-AC3 implementation is a bit of a hack

UI:
360
.Pros-Fast. Very good depending on UPNP streamer used. Allows custom categories like home movies.
.Cons-Slow and clunky depending on UPNP streamer used. only displays the title
AppleTV
.Pros-Very good with well tagged content. Cover Art and show descriptions
.Cons-Poor with badly tagged files. Only TV Shows and Movies categories

Online Store:
360
Pros-HD TV shows, Better HD Movie selection, Good TV selection, Good to Very Good quality
Cons-Does not sync content from 360 back to your MAC. Longer wait before ready to play.

AppleTV
.Pros-Syncs purchased content back to iTunes. SD shows are typically ready to play immediately. HD movies are ready sooner
.Cons-No HD TV shows. Typically lower quality, HD Movie selection is poor currently.

[jjmancini]

I have liked the past 3 responses...informative.

So I guess it comes down to this...

Should I buy the Apple TV?
- the 360 fan noise does not bother me (My system is turned up loud enough to make my neighbors think a low flying jet is near)
- So does the Apple TV justify the price tag?

[J-mizzle]

If you have the 360 already and can stand the noise, theres no reason to buy the :apple:tv. just get connect360 or something.

[Xeem]

I wouldn't but an AppleTV if you already have a 360. AppleTVs have a great interface, but I doubt that you'll ever be able to justify its purchase when you already have a good media extender. I agree with j-mizzle: buy connect360 if you haven't already, and I think you'll be happy.

[sgibson]

I'm going to be picking up an Apple TV to take over duties from the 360 for the following reasons.

Noise - 360 is way too loud.
Wife friendly interface - just finding where to get the media on the 360 is a step too far when all you want to do is watch or listen (not hard, but unnecessary)
Sync music - I can have my 70gig music collection sync onto the Apple TV and can actually turn off the PC once in a while.

PODCASTS - this is the big one, most of the "TV" I want to watch these days is downloads from Revision3 etc and being able to sync these to watch on the TV seamlessly and with no effort would be a big win.

[cmcbridejr]

The UI can be a little slow and unresponsive at times (from the moment of pushing a button on the remote control to the time it takes to respond on the AppleTV).



Sorry to quote myself, but the 2.0.1 update definitely fixes the speed and responsiveness issue with the UI and remote control.

Much better now.

[robanga]

Here is my take but on these, but keep in mind its based on only a short time with the Apple TV (note we also have a PS3) ;

Xbox 360:

Good:

Very nice UI (Blades etc)
Decent selection of movies according to my tastes
Big HD library of movies
It plays excellent games (of course)
With connect 360 it can pull off a lot of content from the macs
Ability to interface with a Windows Media PC, this is my main method of recording TV these days. The integration of the the 360 with these is top notch.
Some fairly interesting internet services available like NPR news etc, apparently Netflix is soon to be on the 360 as well.

Bad:
Long time between download and watch on SD
Super long time between download and watch on HD
Noisy! (it sounds like my media room is going to take off for a trip around the neighborhood)


Apple TV:

Good:

Nice UI aesthetically (although the 360, I find easier to navigate from a movie store perspective)
Short times between download and watch (much shorter overall than the 360)
Larger overall Library ( i do not know the exact numbers but this is the "feeling" i get from both)
Integration with the Macs and iTunes.
Quiet operation

Bad:

Strange DRM rules about moving content back and fourth between Macs, iPhone and Apple TV. To be fair the same thing exists for 360 rented content and actually your choices are far less.

The Apple TV wins hands down for me on the noise issue alone.

Note: I have not really used the PS3 for anything other than Blue Ray so can not really compare it as media center.

[jaw04005]

Note: I have not really used the PS3 for anything other than Blue Ray so can not really compare it as media center.

It doesn't compare. The PS3's media interface (or lack there of) is archaic. It's basically a directory structure similar to the 360's media blade.

The PS3 also doesn't support MPEG-4 ASP (Advanced Simple Profile) and requires specific header information otherwise files are unplayable.

In fact, the majority of my MPEG-4 files are unplayable on the PS3 as they aren't MPEG-4 SP (Simple Profile) nor created by QuickTime.

The 360's implementation of MPEG-4 is rock solid compared to the PS3's.

---

It should be noted that the XBOX 360 can be used as a Media Center Extender device. If you have a MCE 2005 or Vista Home Premium/Ultimate, you can use the Media Center interface on your XBOX 360. Unfortunately, the XBOX 360 doesn't support playback of MPEG-4 files within the Media Center Extender application. However, there have been rumors that Microsoft is working on that issue.

Media Center's interface is on par with Apple TV's and adds the ability to schedule and record television shows directly from the XBOX 360. Movie rentals are also available through third-party providers like CinemaNow, Vongo, etc. And Microsoft has an "Internet" module that can access online video from certain providers like MSNBC.

Basically, MCX does everything the Apple TV can do except native Podcast support and YouTube. However, unlike Apple TV the XBOX isn't accessing this content directly. It's all downloading on your PC.

[robanga]

Agreed with all of what you said on the 360 and it's capabilities as a media center. Its the darned noise that bugs me. I have know people that have put the 360 behind a wall to mitigate it :)

[jaw04005]

Agreed with all of what you said on the 360 and it's capabilities as a media center. Its the darned noise that bugs me. I have know people that have put the 360 behind a wall to mitigate it :)

Haha. The noise is a bit ridiculous, especially if you have one of the older versions. I've tried catty-cornering my entertainment cabinet and putting the 360 on an upside down plastic storage crate. It works pretty well, but you can still here a slight hum.

I think Molly Wood (of CNET fame) put her XBOX 360 in a "media closet" to keep the noise down.

[r12ski]

I found this article to be extremely helpful in comparing not just the Xbox to the :apple:TV but also other services as well.

It an objective analysis of each.

For me, the xbox is noisy and my tv is smaller than 50" so apple tv FTW.

Heres the article: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/02/14/apple_tv_take_2_review_part_2_hd_movie_comparisons.html&page=1

[SpinThis!]

My buddy has a 360 and I have an AppleTV.

One thing to consider—where is your content coming from? If you have a lot of DVDs you want to convert, the tools for converting them to WMV (on both mac and windows) just aren't very friendly or available... and we've tried a lot of them. Unless you can live with WMV files (urrggh), the 360 doesn't support 5.1 surround with H.264 if that matters to you. And don't even get me started on why the XBox 360 can only stream certain content over MCE. IMO, WMV9 /VC1 files are bigger than H.264 and look worse at the same bitrate.

Out of the box, the ATV has relatively poor codec support but if you hack it, you can get pretty much everything to play—such as xvid and wmv files. Even if you don't hack it, the AppleTV is pretty capable—depending on where you content comes from (whether you convert movies yourself or rent/buy them from the Apple store).

The Media Extender is a bit more useful (you can use it as a live DVR for example if your PC has a tuner card) but only if you use Windows XP/MCE or Vista combination. Apple TV is simply a much easier experience if you own a Mac imo.

[err404]

Out of the box, the ATV has relatively poor codec support but if you hack it, you can get pretty much everything to play—such as xvid and wmv files.

Not to be discouraging but, if you are buying a NEW AppleTV, they are NOT easy to hack 'yet'. (An original AppleTV 1.0 is a piece of cake, but they are hard to find)
Most of the documentation and procedures online are for hacking 1.0 boxes. Even the Take2 hacking procedures require that your safe boot partition is from an original 1.0. Documentation for 1.1 and 2.0 AppleTV hacks are poor at best. The recent release of 2.0.1 confuses things even more since if you mess up, you may not be able to easily get back to 2.0.
Thats not to say that it can't be done, but if you go this route be prepared to spend a lot of time figuring it out, especially if you are not running Tiger. I tried it a month ago and had a VERY hard time getting AFP working.

In short, as of right now, I would not recommend buying a new AppleTV if you are depending hacking it for functionality you need.

[usarcher]

I stumble onto this thread looking for an answer to my issue. I just got the Apple TV this weekend got everything synced, played some music, and watched a HD rental. Everything works and looks beautiful. My concern is about the fan noise. Every where I look everyone say that they can't hear the :apple:TV, but I can definitely hear the fan spinning from across the room when there is no other sound in the room, or in a quiet part of the music/movie.

Is there anyone out there that can hear their :apple:TV or is it just mine and I should look into replacing it?

Thanks

[mallbritton]

I stumble onto this thread looking for an answer to my issue. I just got the Apple TV this weekend got everything synced, played some music, and watched a HD rental. Everything works and looks beautiful. My concern is about the fan noise. Every where I look everyone say that they can't hear the :apple:TV, but I can definitely hear the fan spinning from across the room when there is no other sound in the room, or in a quiet part of the music/movie.

Is there anyone out there that can hear their :apple:TV or is it just mine and I should look into replacing it?

Thanks

The :apple:TV doesn't have a fan. Perhaps you're hearing the hard drive spinning (which would be bad) or you're hearing something else.

Regards,
Michael

[usarcher]

I could be wrong but in the dissection at Macworld:

http://www.macworld.com/article/57079/2007/03/appletvharddrive.html

sure looks like that black box is a fan. Plus when you put the :apple:TV to sleep and the hard drive spins down the noise is still there.

[err404]

My AppleTV, while not silent, is very quiet. That said I do hear it when the drive spins up. If you have a constant noise that your hearing, you may want to have it looked at.

[jaw04005]

Every where I look everyone say that they can't hear the :apple:TV, but I can definitely hear the fan spinning from across the room when there is no other sound in the room, or in a quiet part of the music/movie.

Is there anyone out there that can hear their :apple:TV or is it just mine and I should look into replacing it?

Do you by chance have the 160GB? I have a 160GB and 40GB. The 160GB is audible, but not distracting. However, my 40GB is completely silent even up to the ear.

If your Apple TV is noticeably audible to the point where it's distracting, by all means contact Apple. You may have a faulty unit.

[MikieMikie]

I assumed there was no fan, and Cave Man, who seems to have his unit apart more than together ;) clearly states that the CPU has a cooling fan. You can see the fan in some of his pictures of his Apple TV.

I have a 160 and cannot hear it from across the room.

[usarcher]

Do you by chance have the 160GB? I have a 160GB and 40GB. The 160GB is audible, but not distracting. However, my 40GB is completely silent even up to the ear.

If your Apple TV is noticeably audible to the point where it's distracting, by all means contact Apple. You may have a faulty unit.

I got the 40GB version. Sounds like I will give Apple a call or take it back to BestBuy to pick up a different one.

Anyone know how to completely wipe the drive before I return it.

One other thing, I would still highly recommend the :apple:TV and if you want a good deal on one, BestBuy has a 10% off coupon that will work:D

[SpinThis!]

Even the Take2 hacking procedures require that your safe boot partition is from an original 1.0.
Wrong. You just patchstick it (http://www.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=791), as you do in take 1. I bought a Take 2 model and had no problems getting wmv and divx support, coachsurfer, and other things to work but others mileage will vary. Even Windows (http://www.atv4windows.com) users can get this running now. (Of course the legality of all this is a grey area if that matters to you.)

I would not recommend buying a new AppleTV if you are depending hacking it for functionality you need.
I'll agree with you here... I wouldn't recommend buying an AppleTV if you don't like what it does out of the box, period... the hacks just add a few useful additions. (Same goes with the iPhone but that's a subject for a different thread.)

[err404]

Wrong. You just patchstick it (http://www.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=791), as you do in take 1. I bought a Take 2 model and had no problems getting wmv and divx support, coachsurfer, and other things to work but others mileage will vary. Even Windows (http://www.atv4windows.com) users can get this running now. (Of course the legality of all this is a grey area if that matters to you.)

I had does this a month ago and the process was MUCH more painful then. I was running Leopard and it needed Tiger system files. It looks like they have scripted using the combo updater to get these now.

After the Patchstick, the part I had the most issues with was with connecting to AFP shares (FTPing every movie file to the ATV was too cumbersome). The process (at the time) copied the AFP system files from a 1.0 restore partition. These files were removed after the ATV 1.1 update which stopped new boxes from working with AFP.