2nd mac pro issues????? oh man.

[thedommer]

sooooooo got home. there was my new mac pro. brought it upstairs. removed the old mac pro (by old I mean 3 weeks old). then put my hard drives from the old mac pro into the new one. added my ram to the 1st 2 slots then put the new mac pros apple ram to the second 2 slots. then booted.

everything went fine. then I checked ram. only 4 gigs was showing up. (first slot on each ram card)

shut down. removed all ram. put apple ram in first 2 slots. mine in second 2. reboot. only 2 gigs shows up(2 1 gig sticks).

removed all my hard drives. put the one that came with it back in. booted into the fresh new OSX. still only 2 gigs.

Im at a total loss here people. anyone have any idea what to do? is this one defective too????

[thedommer]

just tried the ram from the older mac. tried the dimm cards from the older mac. tried a ton of different configurations.

Dimm 2 on both cards wont show up in the new mac.....

[nemloc]

only 4 gigs was showing up. (first slot on each ram card)

Have you put both your sticks into the first two spots in the top memory riser and both apple sticks in the first two spots in the bottom riser?

[jjahshik32]

How are you placing the RAM configurations?? I know that you need 2 matching on each board of the same gb for it to pick up under osx. Say you have 1gb then 2gb next to each other on a board, that's not going to work.

It has to be 2gbx2 on top riser both slot 1 and 1gbx2 on bottom riser both in slot 1.. is this how you configured it?

[kittiyut]

What was wrong with your "old" MP anyway? Are you the guy that had the Kernel Panic problem (and 2 guys were fighting over how to solve the problem - clean install or not)?

[Infrared]

sooooooo got home. there was my new mac pro. brought it upstairs. removed the old mac pro (by old I mean 3 weeks old). then put my hard drives from the old mac pro into the new one. added my ram to the 1st 2 slots then put the new mac pros apple ram to the second 2 slots. then booted.

By the second 2 slots do you mean the
first two slots on the second riser?

I'm just a little confused here :)

Thanks.

[krye]

It's like this:
First you'll see Apple put one RAM stick in each riser. Like this:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2342/2366431218_7a41c3b671.jpg?v=0

You have to take one of the Apple RAM sticks from one riser and pair it up on the other riser. Then add you new RAM to the other riser in a pair.

1st pair: Riser A
2nd pair: Riser B
(both risers are the same so it doesn't matter which one you call "A" or "B", as long as your "A" goes on the top.)

Like this: One matched pair on each riser.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3146/2366431220_1512016097.jpg?v=0

Now if you were to add two more pairs you would do it like this:
3rd pair: Riser A
4th pair: Riser B

[thedommer]

yes I know ram has to go in pairs....

I tried configurations using the apple ram from the old mac, apple ram from new mac, and my third part ram.

I also tried the sliders (dont know what you call them) from the old mac.

every time I added ram I did it in pairs. BUT just so you know, it will show up if you dont put it in pairs. Im pretty sure it just wont use the ram effectively. however I did do it exactly as shown in the pictures by the last poster.

and yes I know where each dimm spot is. when I put 3 sticks in each slider ( in pairs - one stick on each slider) the second dimm doesnt show that any ram is there. however dimms 1 and 3 on both sliders show ram.

oh and I ran apple hardware test with 2 sticks in and it passed. I ran it with 4 sticks in and it doesn't make it to the hardware test. it freezes at probing.

yes im the one who had the very unstable mac pro last time where the thread turned into a battle between my tech support :) the last mac pro was just unstable so I lost countless hours trying figure out what was wrong with it and how to get it to work properly. this one has obvious hardware errors. kinda wish this was the 1st one i got. would have saved lots of time.

[djjclark]

You see any error lights on the riser? Each dimm slot has a corresponding LED that lights up on initial boot then turns off after a correct POST. One of my risers was bad and would show the LED on regardless of which ram I put it in it.

[thedommer]

You see any error lights on the riser? Each dimm slot has a corresponding LED that lights up on initial boot then turns off after a correct POST. One of my risers was bad and would show the LED on regardless of which ram I put it in it.

thanks for the info! Ill check that out when I get home. either way its definately defective. if its crashing the mac hardware test there has to be something wrong!

[jjahshik32]

If none of them are a problem.. then I'd suggest try exchanging the ram..??

[thedommer]

definitely not the ram. I tried 3 different pairs in it and no matter what pair I put in it didn't show up in OSX(when in the second dimm) and it crashed the mac hardware test (when in dimm 2). Im 100% certain its the logic board....or at least something hardware related that isn't the ram.

[GotPro]

Sorry to hear about all your problems, Man!

Wish you lived closer... I'd come fix that damn thing for you ;-)

[thedommer]

... wouldn't that void my warranty? :)

anyways. if its the logic board I dont want to fool around with that. Im going to keep going at this until they send me one that works! I paid for it so I will get it.

[kittiyut]

Is Apple gonna send you a 3rd one?

[anthonyjr]

Just sign up for a spot at the Genius Bar at an Apple Store; let them know of your problem & bring the ram.

If you needed to get your logics board replaced, it should only take a few days. All the repair parts are usually shipped next day.

[GregPacker]

My fourth mac pro seems to be working as it should. Keep the faith brother. ;)

[thedommer]

Just sign up for a spot at the Genius Bar at an Apple Store; let them know of your problem & bring the ram.

If you needed to get your logics board replaced, it should only take a few days. All the repair parts are usually shipped next day.

there is no way I'm getting a mac repaired that arrived at my house yesterday! repairs are for when its not brand new. Apple will have no issue sending a new one. I want to start out with a stable system. then Ill deal with repairs as needed in the future. but hell no! not right away! a damaged logic board could mean it was dropped or hit around to hard in transit. so I fix the board..but something else might go next.. Its much safer to start off with something thats stable instead of patching something thats not! Then as the machine gets older there will be other repairs but those are ok and should be expected.

to the question is apple going to send you a third one... I will be talking to my rep tomorrow but obviously they will. there is no way that they would say "well we tried twice and obviously you just cant get a good one. so sorry you have to go get it repaired." It their fault. They will deal with it. They have reasonable customer service.

greg - wow. four! well done :) I really hope thirds a charm. The computer is pretty much the core of my work and music. So not having a stable system really causes a lot of trouble. Goooooooo Apple QC! YAY!

[nemloc]

yes I know ram has to go in pairs....

I tried configurations using the apple ram from the old mac, apple ram from new mac, and my third part ram.

I also tried the sliders (dont know what you call them) from the old mac.

every time I added ram I did it in pairs. BUT just so you know, it will show up if you dont put it in pairs. Im pretty sure it just wont use the ram effectively. however I did do it exactly as shown in the pictures by the last poster.

and yes I know where each dimm spot is. when I put 3 sticks in each slider ( in pairs - one stick on each slider) the second dimm doesnt show that any ram is there. however dimms 1 and 3 on both sliders show ram.



Just to double check, the setup with 3 sticks on each riser is to prove that there's something wrong? I ask because no valid memory config according to the instructions ever leaves you with 3 sticks on each riser. When you have only 1 pair (2 sticks) as the default config has you put one stick in each riser (slider). When you have more than 1 pair then the ordering changes and each pair goes on the same riser.

So you have Pair X and Pair Y of memory to go on Riser A (top) and Riser B (bottom). Pair X would go in Riser A with stick X1 into the first slot on A and stick X2 on the second slot. Pair Y goes on Riser B with stick Y1 going into the first slot on B and stick Y2 going into the second slot on B.

If the picture attached in a previous post, the first pic shows one stick from the one pair in each riser. When a second pair is added, one of the original sticks moves to the other riser (notice the stickers on the memory) and the other, now empty riser, gets the new pair.

[pastrychef]

Yes, nemlock is right. Sounds like you installed your RAM incorrectly. They really should've left the diagram from the 1st gen Mac Pros on the inside of the side panel...

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacPro_Early2008_MemoryDIMM_DIY.pdf

[thedommer]

you guys are absolutely right! thanks for pointing that out. I didn't read it correctly. that was stupid. anyways for the 1st mac pro thats irrelevant as i only have the apple ram in the proper config.

for the second mac pro I'm pretty sure its irrelevant to because even if the ram is installed wrong it will still show up. I did at one point missmatch ram while testing by mistake and it still showed up just fine. Ill try again tonight to verify.

also in my old mac pro when I did have all for sticks in briefly they all showed up. So while this is good to know information it doesn't solve the problem. Although once I get a mac that works I'm sure it will help with the speed. thanks guys.

dom

[thedommer]

just a quick update in my fun switch to mac.

sent the second mac pro back march 31st. still waiting for the third.... Ill be really pissed off if I finally get a working mac pro about the same time they do some new update :( (like bluray)

[GregPacker]

I spoke too soon. My fourth mac pro just died. It worked fine for 3 weeks now it's just died for no reason at all. I used it yesterday, shut it down as normal, went to bed, got up this morning and pressed the power button, and nothing. Absolutely nothing. No light, no HD motors, no fans, nothing. Acts as though the power button is not even connected to anything. Tried other power sockets, tried SMC resets, still nothing. I had not moved it or touched it in between it working yesterday and being dead today. There can't have been a power cut or surge or anything like that during the night because an older mac was running all night from the same outlet and was still running in the morning.
This is just getting ridiculous. How much more of my time is going to be wasted by mac pro 2008 problems?
Is there anything else I should try doing to resurrect this machine before I get in the queue for an Apple genius? I see there is a button marked reset on the logic board above and behind the pci express slots. What does this reset and is it worth pushing it?

[flyinmac]

I spoke too soon. My fourth mac pro just died. It worked fine for 3 weeks now it's just died for no reason at all. I used it yesterday, shut it down as normal, went to bed, got up this morning and pressed the power button, and nothing. Absolutely nothing. No light, no HD motors, no fans, nothing. Acts as though the power button is not even connected to anything. Tried other power sockets, tried SMC resets, still nothing. I had not moved it or touched it in between it working yesterday and being dead today. There can't have been a power cut or surge or anything like that during the night because an older mac was running all night from the same outlet and was still running in the morning.
This is just getting ridiculous. How much more of my time is going to be wasted by mac pro 2008 problems?
Is there anything else I should try doing to resurrect this machine before I get in the queue for an Apple genius? I see there is a button marked reset on the logic board above and behind the pci express slots. What does this reset and is it worth pushing it?


Almost all electronic failures happen when the device is first turned on. So, theoretically, you could prolong the life of the machine by just never turning it off ;)

So, with your next system (#5) just turn it on the first time, and then never reboot or turn it off again. Should be fine :D

I've actually seen cases of computers that were left on for 10 years or more without ever being turned off. Then, someone shuts it off, and it dies when turned on again. Was 100% reliable, and then dead.

In all seriousness, I would consider that perhaps the new Mac Pro just isn't for you. Perhaps you're getting a rather subtle hint and you're just not supposed to get a new Mac. Maybe Karma is just catching up ;)

Either way, I'd take it back. Either write off the whole deal, and move on. Or, get another one and hope for the best.

Sometimes life sends us little hints, and we just have to accept that it isn't going to work for us. Perhaps you're destined for PC's :D O.K., who's gas tank did you put sugar in??? :D

[jjahshik32]

I spoke too soon. My fourth mac pro just died. It worked fine for 3 weeks now it's just died for no reason at all. I used it yesterday, shut it down as normal, went to bed, got up this morning and pressed the power button, and nothing. Absolutely nothing. No light, no HD motors, no fans, nothing. Acts as though the power button is not even connected to anything. Tried other power sockets, tried SMC resets, still nothing. I had not moved it or touched it in between it working yesterday and being dead today. There can't have been a power cut or surge or anything like that during the night because an older mac was running all night from the same outlet and was still running in the morning.
This is just getting ridiculous. How much more of my time is going to be wasted by mac pro 2008 problems?
Is there anything else I should try doing to resurrect this machine before I get in the queue for an Apple genius? I see there is a button marked reset on the logic board above and behind the pci express slots. What does this reset and is it worth pushing it?

whoa... man sorry to hear... its so weird how there are problems with 4 mac pros in a row!! Only thing to say to you is just keep on exchanging until you get a non lemon and make sure to buy applecare!!

[flyinmac]

whoa... man sorry to hear... its so weird how there are problems with 4 mac pros in a row!! Only thing to say to you is just keep on exchanging until you get a non lemon and make sure to buy applecare!!

I went through a similar ordeal with the iMac G5 systems. After that, I sold off everything Mac (since they were all failing), and waited quite a long time (almost 2 years) before buying another one new. I got my Mac Pro in August 2007 after seeing that complaints were rather low for that model at the time.

And, I got the other machines I was using in the mean time from other individuals instead of buying them new. They were G4 models that I used to get by until Apple produced a new machine that was reliable.

It would appear that they may be returning to their low quality production model.

[thedommer]

I spoke too soon. My fourth mac pro just died. It worked fine for 3 weeks now it's just died for no reason at all. I used it yesterday, shut it down as normal, went to bed, got up this morning and pressed the power button, and nothing. Absolutely nothing. No light, no HD motors, no fans, nothing. Acts as though the power button is not even connected to anything. Tried other power sockets, tried SMC resets, still nothing. I had not moved it or touched it in between it working yesterday and being dead today. There can't have been a power cut or surge or anything like that during the night because an older mac was running all night from the same outlet and was still running in the morning.
This is just getting ridiculous. How much more of my time is going to be wasted by mac pro 2008 problems?
Is there anything else I should try doing to resurrect this machine before I get in the queue for an Apple genius? I see there is a button marked reset on the logic board above and behind the pci express slots. What does this reset and is it worth pushing it?

do you live in an old house? poor power sources can damage electronics. have you had this issue with older computers before the mac? if so I would suggest trying a power conditioner between the mac and your outlet. Im only speculating though. chances are its just because the QA went out the window. after all I'm waiting for my third mac pro and none of the 5 other PCs in my house seem to be having these issues. ah well.

cant cut my losses though because I need it unfortunately. maybe when I finally get a stable one Ill sell it off before the mac pro 09 comes out. then make the switch and hope that one had better QA.

[thedommer]

after waiting 2 weeks I sent them an email asking where the hell my replacement mac was... then I got a phone call. They had forgot about me. the mac was just sitting there. UGH. F$&%$k you apple. they are sending me over papers I was supposed to be sent 2 weeks ago and then they will finally send the replacement.

[GregPacker]

do you live in an old house? poor power sources can damage electronics. have you had this issue with older computers before the mac? if so I would suggest trying a power conditioner between the mac and your outlet. Im only speculating though. chances are its just because the QA went out the window. after all I'm waiting for my third mac pro and none of the 5 other PCs in my house seem to be having these issues. ah well.

cant cut my losses though because I need it unfortunately. maybe when I finally get a stable one Ill sell it off before the mac pro 09 comes out. then make the switch and hope that one had better QA.

I live in an old house but the electrics are modern and fine, the landlord has an electrician check it every 5 years and the last check was just a couple of months ago. No problems with my other computers in the 3 years I have been here. The issues with my faulty mac pros have all been very different. I think there must be some design issues that make certain things delicate and unstable, which might explain why some things seem so random and can be helped but not solved by pram zaps or smc resets. Like you I need a machine so I will keep trying to get a stable one, but for the first time ever I will probably have to get Applecare because I will find it difficult to trust this model longterm. I won't forget that the latest one seemed perfect for three weeks and then inexplicably died.
I see people saying "ah well, it's probably just one in a thousand that have problems but they are the only ones who post" and I wish I could agree. The trouble is that I recognise a lot of the names of people who have posted about their problems. They aren't new faces who have arrived in distress. They are often the same people who were posting in the "waiting for harpertown" threads before these machines were even available. For so many of these existing mac pro discussion people (who I would expect to see posts from, regardless of whether they had problems or not) to have reported issues I get the feeling that this has been a really problematic model release. I have also seen several posts here and on other boards from people who have bought 10 or so mac pros at once and had to return about a third of them due to various major issues. My gut feeling is that at least a quarter of early buyers were hit by problems (such as the 2600xt random freeze), and although firmware updates have fixed some things, these machines are still not something that I would trust in an environment where reliability is essential. Hands up who would run their life support system from their mac pro 2008? ;) Luckily my business is not dependant on this machine, so in the last 3 months I have lost more hair than money.

[thedommer]

I complained. I've never complained for any company ever in my life. but I thought it was time :)

they gave me an 8 gig nano. turns out the ass I was dealing with was someone form a different department that I should not of been dealing with. all the rest of the customer service representatives have been fantastic. computer is on its way!

fingers crossed.

[mgsarch]

yes im the one who had the very unstable mac pro last time where the thread turned into a battle between my tech support :) the last mac pro was just unstable so I lost countless hours trying figure out what was wrong with it and how to get it to work properly. this one has obvious hardware errors. kinda wish this was the 1st one i got. would have saved lots of time.

your "tech support" .... nice.

repeated hardware issues can often indicate a defective user.

[thedommer]

your "tech support" .... nice.

repeated hardware issues can often indicate a defective user.

believe me I think of that all the time. is it me? Thats why I over analyze the situation and try everything to figure out what's wrong. We shall see tonight. (I think the third arrives tonight. something is out in purolator. either that or my nano :) )

[Consultant]

SOUNDS LIKE USER ERROR!!! If you can't even figure out how to put the ram in properly, what else you don't know how to do properly? Did you observe anti-static precautions? (Do your house happen to have carpet?)


SUGGESTION:
You might want to use computer WITHOUT doing anything to it, make sure it works, and THEN add ONE THING AT A TIME to make sure whatever you did works?

Do you have a Uninterrupted Power Supply or at least a surge protector? Perhaps your house don't have enough clean power to run the Mac Pro?

[thedommer]

SOUNDS LIKE USER ERROR!!! If you can't even figure out how to put the ram in properly, what else you don't know how to do properly? Did you observe anti-static precautions? (Do your house happen to have carpet?)


SUGGESTION:
You might want to use computer WITHOUT doing anything to it, make sure it works, and THEN add ONE THING AT A TIME to make sure whatever you did works?

Do you have a Uninterrupted Power Supply or at least a surge protector? Perhaps your house don't have enough clean power to run the Mac Pro?

I know your trying to be helpful. but your not. I came from PC. the way that mac pro ram goes in is something I've never done before ( Ive also never had to put more then 2 sticks into a computer). Thats the only thing I missed. AND THATS IRRELEVANT TO THE ERRORS I HAVE BEEN GETTING.

I've been building computers for just over 10 years now. I know what I'm doing. Not knowing a unique way of configuring ram that is irrelevant in every home setup until now does not make me a moron.

and if you actually read this thread and the last one where this all started you would note that with both computers I used STOCK setup to check them along with my customized setup.

I'm well aware of static issues.

and yes I have a power supply. and its a pretty good one.
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Server_Network/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0530169

sounds like POINTLESS POST!!! your comments suck or maybe its just the way you phrase them. accusing doesn't solve anything.

I came here to get help. I got the help I needed and I talked to apple and clearly explained what I had done and tried and they decided that my testing was acceptable and therefor have sent me the new computers....

[Erwin-Br]

I know your trying to be helpful. but your not. I came from PC. the way that mac pro ram goes in is something I've never done before ( Ive also never had to put more then 2 sticks into a computer). Thats the only thing I missed. AND THATS IRRELEVANT TO THE ERRORS I HAVE BEEN GETTING.

I've been building computers for just over 10 years now. I know what I'm doing. Not knowing a unique way of configuring ram that is irrelevant in every home setup until now does not make me a moron.

and if you actually read this thread and the last one where this all started you would note that with both computers I used STOCK setup to check them along with my customized setup.

I'm well aware of static issues.

and yes I have a power supply. and its a pretty good one.
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Server_Network/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0530169

sounds like POINTLESS POST!!! your comments suck or maybe its just the way you phrase them. accusing doesn't solve anything.

I came here to get help. I got the help I needed and I talked to apple and clearly explained what I had done and tried and they decided that my testing was acceptable and therefor have sent me the new computers....

I imagine it's annoying to read his post, especially if you're certain you know what you're doing (it's almost an accusation), but I understand what he's saying.

As a system administrator in the past, I've seen people handling their hardware, and it sometimes surprised me they actually got it to work. --Touching their parts everywhere, keeping power cables plugged in when installing parts, even booting up machines that have been in a cold area and have not yet adjusted to room temperature. I wouldn't be surprised if unexperienced users might cause some of the problems I'm reading daily on these forums.

--Erwin

[mgsarch]

I know your trying to be helpful. but your not. I came from PC. the way that mac pro ram goes in is something I've never done before ( Ive also never had to put more then 2 sticks into a computer). Thats the only thing I missed. AND THATS IRRELEVANT TO THE ERRORS I HAVE BEEN GETTING.

I've been building computers for just over 10 years now. I know what I'm doing. Not knowing a unique way of configuring ram that is irrelevant in every home setup until now does not make me a moron.

and if you actually read this thread and the last one where this all started you would note that with both computers I used STOCK setup to check them along with my customized setup.

I'm well aware of static issues.

and yes I have a power supply. and its a pretty good one.
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Server_Network/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0530169

sounds like POINTLESS POST!!! your comments suck or maybe its just the way you phrase them. accusing doesn't solve anything.

I came here to get help. I got the help I needed and I talked to apple and clearly explained what I had done and tried and they decided that my testing was acceptable and therefor have sent me the new computers....

Like you said, you're a PC user.

As was told to me a long time ago, RTFM bro.

This is your Mac Pro, not your DIY beigebox. Treat it like the multi-thousand dollar machine it is instead of diving in with a can-do attitude that will probably result in several more calls to applecare.

I'm sure it is frustrating to take flak from us but it's frustrating to us to want to help you and have it become evident that you are taking no steps to educate yourself before asking questions. It's a good idea to exhaust google/forum searches about issues you have before adding to the plethora of multi posts.

[mgsarch]

I know your trying to be helpful. but your not. I came from PC. the way that mac pro ram goes in is something I've never done before ( Ive also never had to put more then 2 sticks into a computer). Thats the only thing I missed. AND THATS IRRELEVANT TO THE ERRORS I HAVE BEEN GETTING.

I've been building computers for just over 10 years now. I know what I'm doing. Not knowing a unique way of configuring ram that is irrelevant in every home setup until now does not make me a moron.

and if you actually read this thread and the last one where this all started you would note that with both computers I used STOCK setup to check them along with my customized setup.

I'm well aware of static issues.

and yes I have a power supply. and its a pretty good one.
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Server_Network/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0530169

sounds like POINTLESS POST!!! your comments suck or maybe its just the way you phrase them. accusing doesn't solve anything.

I came here to get help. I got the help I needed and I talked to apple and clearly explained what I had done and tried and they decided that my testing was acceptable and therefor have sent me the new computers....

Like you said, you're a PC user.

As was told to me a long time ago, RTFM bro.

This is your Mac Pro, not your DIY beigebox. Treat it like the multi-thousand dollar machine it is instead of diving in with a can-do attitude that will probably result in several more calls to applecare.

I'm sure it is frustrating to take flak from us but it's frustrating to us to want to help you and have it become evident that you are taking no steps to educate yourself before asking questions. It's a good idea to exhaust google/forum searches about issues you have before adding to the plethora of multi posts.

[thedommer]

Im not quite sure what makes you think I'm treating it like a DIY box??? all I did was add hard drives and ram. I don't see any DIY with that. anyone can do those things and everyone does those things. In fact the mac is designed so anyone can easily do those things! the only thing I did wrong was when I added the 4 sticks of ram I did not put them in the right slots because I have never added/needed more then 2 sticks in my life. AND that is totally irrelevant to stability. Its only better for speed.

A mac is a PC. I wasnt going into the unknown. they have the same parts and the same hard drives. I went to a store. bought some hard drives and ram and put them into my computer like any normal person.

There was no "cando attitude." there was a "WTF this thing doesnt work". and you know what??? if I hadn't added my hard drives and ram guess what would of happened. "WTF this thing doesnt work."

I find it very irritating that would would say Im taking no steps. Literally the only thing I did wrong was the ram pairs. And someone pointed that out and then I changed that. I explained very clearly to everyone what I did to get help. I THINK THATS TAKING A STEP. Plus the hours of testing and reconfiguring and running the apple hardware test. and calling apple FOR HELP. nothing there said "hey do your ram this way because its screwing up the whole computer" BECAUSE IT WASNT. And I cant see anything there that says I was going in with a DIY cando attitude. in fact thats why I bought a mac. so I wouldnt have to do that or think about that.

Anyways same as the other guy you are making very annoying broad statements.

I appreciate all the help everyone gave me but the bottom line is I had 2 defective computers. the end. Its very annoying that I have to fend off attacks of user error. Its fine to ask if I observed proper static precautions and to ask about the power in my house. Its fine to ask about alot of things and make sure all is well. just dont follow it with ERRRRROOOOORRRRR USER ERRROR USERS FAULT DIY CANDO ATTITUDE. and then a bunch of other accusing crap.

no thanks. people come here for help. like I did. to make sure they did everything right. and if they did do something wrong to fix that.

anyways this thread does not need to continue. (read below)

--------------

MAC PRO UPDATE:

As you may or may not know the first mac pro had random crashes. the second one has 2 defective ram slots. I kept the first and returned the second as although the first one crashed alot at least I knew I could work with it. So to be safe I kept it until the third arrived. It arrived this past monday. I took my hard drives and ram out of the first one and put them into the third one.

and everything is 100% stable. No issues other then having to put in a few serial numbers for software that needed to be reactivated. this is THE EXACT same setup as the first one. yet its 100% stable.

I finally got a working mac!

thanks everyone for your help!