Penn State and Napster Offer 'Free' Music?

[MacRumors]

Excite.com reports (http://apnews.excite.com/article/20031106/D7UKTD1G0.html) that Penn State University is planning to offer "free digital music listening and limited downloading" to their students..

Rosenberger said students will be able to stream music at no cost. They will also be able to download a song and move it to a digital music player for a brief period of time for free, he said. Students who want to download the song permanently or burn it to a CD, will have to pay "small fee," he said.

The service is said to be based on an agreement between Penn State and Napster, which offers an unlimited listening service to its customers for a fixed money fee. As noted in the quote, these songs are only available for use on the individual's computer, and may not be moved to digital players or burned to CD without additional fees.

The service will begin in January and will be funded through an existing $160/semester IT fee the students already pay.

Like many college students (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031103112740.shtml), however, Penn State's students also seem to be taken (http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2003/11/11-05-03tdc/11-05-03dnews-03.asp) by iTunes' sharing abilities:
Andrew DiSabitino (senior-civil engineering) uses iTunes sharing through a local network at his fraternity house
....
"I don't even know how I'd improve upon [iTunes], it's great," he said.

[arn]

Napster's stepping it up too.

This does seem like a good deal for them... same logic... students who use Napster may eventually use it for their pay for download service.

One thing they need to know - they won't be able to use those songs on their iPod if they ever want one. Which could be a big negative.

Suddenly, Apple's local iTunes sharing may be the best feature they've added.... because it provides to all colleges what this napster deal provides to Penn State.

arn

[raiderz182]

who goes to penn state, give me a w00t! =D

[Frisco]

Originally posted by arn
Napster's stepping it up too.

This does seem like a good deal for them... same logic... students who use Napster may eventually use it for their pay for download service.

One thing they need to know - they won't be able to use those songs on their iPod if they ever want one. Which could be a big negative.

Suddenly, Apple's local iTunes sharing may be the best feature they've added.... because it provides to all colleges what this napster deal provides to Penn State.

arn

NO iPod! Well then it's a waste of time!

[jxyama]

when will these services learn that no one wants to "rent" music? :o

curious to see how the students will react to this. no doubt some will claim that they'd rather have their IT fee reduced than be used for this kind of music subscription they don't need/want. not to mention parents if they are paying the tuition.

[marcelo002]

w00t!

wish we had made a deal with itunes instead of napster

[synthetickittie]

w00t!... wait no I got to Boston University, but we play you guys this weekend in Connecticut. Im on the inline hockey team here and we'll be playing 4 games this weekend with you being one of them. Any of you wouldnt happen to play for them would you?

[physicsnerd]

Umm, let me get this stright. If you're a student at Penn State part of your fees go to pay for this music service. However, to take advantage of this music service you must own a Windows 2K/XP machine. So if you don't have a 2K or XP box you're paying for other people to listen to music?

What about all the students who are still running NT/95/98/Me or Mac/Linux/Solaris/ect? While I'd bet a good 80 to 90% are running 2K or XP what is the school doing about the rest? If I was a student at Penn State I'd be asking for a partial refund of my fees. How do you Penn students feel about your fees going to this?

[SiliconAddict]

The service will begin in January and will be funded through an existing $160/semester IT fee the students already pay.

Wait a sec. Hold the phone. Stop the presses. So basically a student is being forced to PAY for it through this $160 per semester thing for IT. So in actuality they ARE paying for the music. Explain to me where the free is? And for those that don't care to use Napster are still paying for the music. Ummm I'd call that screwing the student over and I wouldn't exactly expect them to be too happy about it.

[Frisco]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Wait a sec. Hold the phone. Stop the presses. So basically a student is being forced to PAY for it through this $160 per semester thing for IT. So in actuality they ARE paying for the music. Explain to me where the free is? And for those that don't care to use Napster are still paying for the music. Ummm I'd call that screwing the student over and I wouldn't exactly expect them to be too happy about it.

Yeah it's way to complicated--that's one of the reasons Napster 2 will fail. If you have to think about it--why bother?

[ITR 81]

Basically they pay no matter what. Screw that. I think this will just drive more folks to buy iPods and use iTunes.

I had a total of 6 PC friends today ask me about buying a new or used iPod as they want one for Christmas and get access to Music lib. since they already have iTunes 4.1

I know I've switch 12 folks into using iTunes 4.1 and dumping Winamp and out of that 12, 4 of them have bought new Mac's! I know of two others that are waiting for next G5's to come out next yr.

[NavyIntel007]

I've talked to friends who tried the new Napster and they say "it sucks."

They aren't the type that are going to pay for music anyway so they might not be iTunes customers. It's still a sign of the second death of Napster.

[mrsebastian]

free!? nothing is free, unless you're stealing, i mean sharing it ;)

why don't companies like the new napster and buymusic get it? people are not willing to deal with the b#ll***** of fine print. offer me the product at a specific price and once i buy it, i'm free to do what i want with it. i'm not going to rent my music, i don't want to hear that i can listen to this song on 1 computer only or i'm not allowed to burn that song to a cd... and that's why apple gets my business! yes there are some restrictions, but not enough that i've ever noticed them.

[Java]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Wait a sec. Hold the phone. Stop the presses. So basically a student is being forced to PAY for it through this $160 per semester thing for IT. So in actuality they ARE paying for the music. Explain to me where the free is? And for those that don't care to use Napster are still paying for the music. Ummm I'd call that screwing the student over and I wouldn't exactly expect them to be too happy about it. If I was attending PSU, I would be demanding a discount on my IT fees. I wouldn't want to be paying for a service that I am not using.

[mikeyredk]

Originally posted by marcelo002
w00t!

wish we had made a deal with itunes instead of napster

HEY LISTEN ALL PENN STATE STUDENTS EMAIL THE PRESIDENT TO SWITCH TO ITUNES.

Below is an email conversation between me and the VP of student relations more to come

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:14:46, Office of the President wrote:

> Dear Manoj:
>
> Thanks for your email concerning the agreement with Napster. The
> pilot program that will be tested in the Spring is only available to
> Windows 2000 and XP users. With the addition of certain software, it will
> also run on Macs. Information on the new music service is available on the
> Web at http://live.psu.edu/story/4583p
>
> I appreciate your concern about the service's accessibility and
> will share your email with the appropriate individuals. Thanks again for
> writing.
>
> Sincerely,
> Steve MacCarthy
> Vice President for University Relations
>
>
> At 11:45 AM 11/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >Dear President Graham Spanier,
> > A recent event tied to the legalization of download music
> > services is great for
> >the music industry and allows us as students to do the morally right thing and
> >pay for music. Yet your recent proposal with Napster, which is still rumors,
> >has me wary since I use an Apple Macintosh computer. I know the school is
> >Pro-Windows but you still have to recognize the fact that there are
> >Faculty and
> >Students who love there Macintoshes. I encourage you to change your mind and
> >go with Apple's ITunes Music Store since it is crossed platform. Now
> >Apple has
> >some strong backers with Pepsi and now McDonalds giving away songs this
> >service
> >has a great chance of surviving. If you choose Napster you are leaving out a
> >portion of your Faculty and Students.
> >
> > Written
> > by a Penn State Student,
> > Manoj
> > Aggarwal
> >
> >msa173@psu.edu


IF WE GIVE EM HELL AND TELL THEM HOW THE STUDENTS OF PENN STATE ALREADY HAVE CHOOSEN ITUNES OVER NAPSTER WHO KNOWS WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN

sorry for the yelling

[mikeyredk]

Originally posted by Java
If I was attending PSU, I would be demanding a discount on my IT fees. I wouldn't want to be paying for a service that I am not using.

no
its not like that we pay 160 bucks upfront for internet access and stuff like that and for the computer labs
IM GOING TO GIVE EM HELL if they change the price

[varmit]

I am a Penn State student. This will only be avaliable for students that live on campus, which at UP is about 13,000 students. (Thats number is from the Collegian, so it might not be reliable.) We can download and "briefly" move it to a mp3 player, I don't know if the music times out after a week or something but it obviously gets deleted some how after a certain time or becomes rendered usless when the player is hooked back up to the PC. To permanently keep it, the student has to put out more money, so if you want to keep, shell out more because PSU wont pay for it. AND ITS WINDOWS ONLY! Hell, the dorms are already using iTunes to the fullest, and the school is being completely bias by going with a Windows only client. I think we are getting something for free here, because that IT payment would go up a few dollars, because PSU is low on money at the moment, really low, digging into our trust fund at the moment. People who don't use the service would be in an up roar over being charged more, so I would say free of charge for the short time we get to keep the song.

[varmit]

I know the school is Pro-Windows but you still have to recognize the fact that there are Faculty and Students who love there Macintoshes.

Actually, the number of Macs in the computer labs has jumped up to about 25% of all computers on campus (Lab, Staff, and ones in the Hub). I think the IT guys like them because they don't have to come and fix them. Because I'm one of those guys that has to go and fix the PCs that are always down somewhere in the building.

[mikeyredk]

Originally posted by varmit
I am a Penn State student. This will only be avaliable for students that live on campus, which at UP is about 13,000 students. (Thats number is from the Collegian, so it might not be reliable.) We can download and "briefly" move it to a mp3 player, I don't know if the music times out after a week or something but it obviously gets deleted some how after a certain time or becomes rendered usless when the player is hooked back up to the PC. To permanently keep it, the student has to put out more money, so if you want to keep, shell out more because PSU wont pay for it. AND ITS WINDOWS ONLY! Hell, the dorms are already using iTunes to the fullest, and the school is being completely bias by going with a Windows only client. I think we are getting something for free here, because that IT payment would go up a few dollars, because PSU is low on money at the moment, really low, digging into our trust fund at the moment. People who don't use the service would be in an up roar over being charged more, so I would say free of charge for the short time we get to keep the song.

you forgot the other campuses with dorms like Mckeesport, erie, etc..

[yosoyjay]

Originally posted by mikeyredk
I know the school is Pro-Windows but you still have to recognize the fact that there are Faculty and Students who love there Macintoshes.


Oh man! I bet the president of Penn St. cringed when he saw the word there. Now your cause is hopeless.

[varmit]

The relative proportion of Macs on campus has fallen in the past 10 years, Harwood said. While Windows was once equally popular as the Mac on campus, it now accounts for 75 percent of machines in labs.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2003/10/10-28-03tdc/10-28-03dscihealth-01.asp

[mikeyredk]

Originally posted by yosoyjay
Oh man! I bet the president of Penn St. cringed when he saw the word there. Now your cause is hopeless.
he doesn't actually read this his Minions readed it

[mikeyredk]

my response
based on some comments made by varmit

Dear Steve MacCarthy
I understand that we can use any piece of windows software but, the fact is it cost a lot of money over three hundred dollars. The fact is that most. I am sure that you read the collegian up at University Park there is this one article that you should read if you haven't the URL is:
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2003/11/11-05-03tdc/11-05-03dnews-03.asp

There are lots of students who are going to be upset that in the future when you have to charge for this service because I doubt Penn State is going to be flipping the bill for long.

Here is another Penn state student reaction towards the Napster Plan. This quote is unabridged and the student is also a technical support up at the Park

"I am a Penn State student. This will only be available for students that live on campus, which at UP is about 13,000 students. (That’s number is from the Collegian, so it might not be reliable.) We can download and "briefly" move it to a mp3 player, I don't know if the music times out after a week or something but it obviously gets deleted some how after a certain time or becomes rendered useless when the player is hooked back up to the PC. To permanently keep it, the student has to put out more money, so if you want to keep, shell out more because PSU wont pay for it. AND ITS WINDOWS ONLY! Hell, the dorms are already using ITunes to the fullest, and the school is being completely bias by going with a Windows only client. I think we are getting something for free here, because that IT payment would go up a few dollars, because PSU is low on money at the moment, really low, digging into our trust fund at the moment. People who don't use the service would be in an up roar over being charged more, so I would say free of charge for the short time we get to keep the song."


What I am asking for is equality and diversity. As Penn State says Diversity is an integral part of the University's strategic planning process.

Thankfully,
Manoj Aggarwal

[physicsnerd]

Originally posted by mikeyredk
my response
based on some comments made by varmit

....

Manoj Aggarwal

Why don't you ask him why they didn't do something with iTunes?

I mean I don't know how much the school is paying a month for this service but look at it this way. There are 400,000ish songs on itunes (I think). They can all be had for at most 0.99cents. So you're looking at a maximum of $400,000 to buy every song on itunes and I bet that apple would make you deal if you were to buy that many. Each song can be put on upto three machines. So you buy a computer to act as an iTunes streaming server and stick several network cards in it. Give each network card a different subnet and you're off. I'd bet with 3 computers you could cover dorms completely. Um, of course I think there's a streaming limit on iTunes I but can see Apple making a "college" streaming server version of iTunes where there is no streaming limit. Just a thought.

[mikeyredk]

because physicsnerd since this is now implemented we have to play this politically.

also with the deal by buying so many songs look at pepsi they didn't get a discount for buying one million songs

[eyeluvmyimac]

w00t! i attend the wonderful pennsylvania state university!

but this deal SUCKS!

who would choose to use napster? i mean honestly----everything that makes iTunes great, napster is lacking. And everything that makes napster bad, apple doesn't have. I have converted many die-hard pc users to using iTunes for windows and they love it. This deal would be so much better if it weren't renting the songs. Penn State needs to broaden their horizons, think outside the box, think different....

where have I heard that?



WE ARE!

[DirectorDeek]

w00t!

PENN STATE!!!

:D

I am totally against this Napster thing with PSU. I really can't understand why we are not going with itunes. I have also converted many a pc user just because of my ipod or itunes. speaking of my ipod... every other person wearing headphones around campus has the tell tale white ear-buds. Useless with this Napster service. PSU really jumped the gun on this one and in my opinion it jumped off a cliff in the wrong direction.

I love sitting in the hub with my 15inch powerbook listening to my music or even buying it. :D

[raiderz182]

it was probably you who i saw at the hub with that beauty powerbook that got me interested in macs :D

[rideahyperLite]

Originally posted by raiderz182
who goes to penn state, give me a w00t! =D

hell yizzle penn stizzle is the shizzle.

[varmit]

I have a idea, that PSU could pay a certain amount of money, and have like 100 songs for each student a semester. This would cost PSU alone about 8,300,000. Now if that is more than what we are paying now, which I still believe that this is free and is a political thing to try and get Napster off the ground where it is after getting the **** kicked out of it, talking to Apple might get us some sort of deal. If all college campuses across the USA could buy 100 songs per student, at some reduced price, everyone knows that will bring in losts of money. Students would be more inclinded to use the iTunes service and get a song rather than download it with a file-sharing tool. Hell, you could make it 50 songs, then with the new file-sharing tool on campus here, we could legally trade them, keeping them in house here at PSU. Or then with the students having songs, dynamic sharing can be used to share files with iTunes like it already is. This would let the student that didn't download a certain song, listen to it. But giving the student the ability to do more that stream it from Napster, or have the song for a short time, is what needs to happen. I don't care if we go with the Walmart store. Just not this ************ of a deal that seems to be a marketing skeem.

I'm still in the process of writing my letter, which I will give ideas for other ways of doing this using iTunes, or if another service has good quality too, which I don't see at the moment.

(8,300,000 is if we pay full price for it, with 100 songs per student, which is 83,000 students)

[GiantXX5]

First off it doesn't matter because PENN STATE SUCKS hard at everything, especially football. I'm a little biased being a PITT student, but I l'm from a place right next to state and I just love being a hater. I actually rooted for Ohio State the other week when Penn State looked like they were gonna win a game. Anyway, this whole Napster thing just drives the point home. But from what I've heard the program is no good, so no matter.

Larry for Heisman!
P-I-T-T LETS GO PITT!!!:eek:

[mikeyredk]

can one of the mods shut this guy up plz before we get a college war here and this thread gets deleted

[marcelo002]

Dude, I didn't know there were so many other people at PSU with macs that visit this site. Kick ass. We should get together or some ****.

Anyways, catch my editorial in the collegian next week (if they post it, but they usually do). Although it's probably too late to change Spanier's mind, we still might be able to catch some interest. This deal of theirs is hardly free.

One other thing of note, the press statement says that it will come to mac eventually. I wonder if its just a penn state feature, or if napster is actually going to try to sell its service to the mac community. Talk about suicide.

[DirectorDeek]

Originally posted by raiderz182
it was probably you who i saw at the hub with that beauty powerbook that got me interested in macs :D

ha ha my plan is working!! I get lots of people coming up to me asking about the Mac in the hub. All my windows buddies either want one as their next computer or have and use itunes. :-)

I think I have seen one other Mac user using a 12inch powerbook in the hub one day. I think somebody also has an ibook that I see every now and then. :-)

[mikeyredk]

a Cnet article that blasts Penn State for wasteful spending

http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5103918.html?tag=nefd_top

[CrazyPaco]

Just another exaple of PSU suckieness. Hail to Pitt!

[mikeyredk]

Read this web blog (http://www.aresultofboredom.org/nickblog.html
)

[carlson9]

I have emailed President Spanier regarding this issue at president@psu.edu

here are some student reactions:

... students have posted fliers on Penn State's Erie campus protesting the deal and its use of their IT fees, which ordinarily go toward funding networks, computers and other campus technology services. --from c-net.com

... I was disappointed to learn yesterday that Napster was chosen as the provider for digital music at Penn State. This was done with minimal consideration for the fact that a substantial chunk of students will be unable to enjoy it. For one, Napster is only compatible with Windows, which leaves me, as a Mac user, paying for other people to have a service I can't use. Second, Napster is not compatible with the iPod, the most popular MP3 player on the market. Given that iTunes is available for both Mac and Windows now, is disappointing that this decision was made without considering these important facts, and without giving the students much of a chance to debate if it is a good use of tuition surcharges. It would be much more sensible to avoid the nonsense of exclusive deals (God forbid anyone like the taste of Coke over Pepsi around here!) and give people a choice to ensure that they at least get something for their money. -- from PSU digital collegian

[carlson9]

This is what i emailed President Spanier:

Dear President Spanier,

I assume that you are running or intend to run pilot 'tests' of the other services besides Napster. I take issue with the statement that Napster offers a 'lot more songs than other providers'. That is open to judgement and changes weekly with these services. Besides, this whole issue of trying to judge a service is not something that Penn State should be doing... its like judging which cable channel you should watch. Let the students select the service without interference from the administration. Please don't create a take it or leave it service where... 'You don't have to use it as part of your technology fee'... is the only option out. Apply your monies where students may choose the 'correct' service... not where some IT-type is dictating choice.

It is one thing to govern educational content for students but you should not be governing this type of entertainment service.

There should be no need for students to 'give us feedback' on this issue at all since this should never have been a project in the first place.

Please forward my email to your Board of Trustees.

Thank you for your time.

Professor William Carlson, '75, '81', '87 and an alum

[mikeyredk]

Originally posted by carlson9
This is what i emailed President Spanier:

Dear President Spanier,

I assume that you are running or intend to run pilot 'tests' of the other services besides Napster. I take issue with the statement that Napster offers a 'lot more songs than other providers'. That is open to judgement and changes weekly with these services. Besides, this whole issue of trying to judge a service is not something that Penn State should be doing... its like judging which cable channel you should watch. Let the students select the service without interference from the administration. Please don't create a take it or leave it service where... 'You don't have to use it as part of your technology fee'... is the only option out. Apply your monies where students may choose the 'correct' service... not where some IT-type is dictating choice.

It is one thing to govern educational content for students but you should not be governing this type of entertainment service.

There should be no need for students to 'give us feedback' on this issue at all since this should never have been a project in the first place.

Please forward my email to your Board of Trustees.

Thank you for your time.

Professor William Carlson, '75, '81', '87 and an alum

you should have said your a rich alum :D

[carlson9]

mikeyredk
unfortunately professors are not rich enough to influence presidents or kings...

Instead of Penn State trying to choose a music service I wish they would focus on important issues... Virginia Tech installed a G5 based supercomputer... why couldn't Penn State do this. How about buying each student a dorm room G4 iBook or G5??? and connecting them to produce the world's largest open grid supercomputer. Let's see, Penn State's 20,000 on campus G5s vs Virginia Tech's 1100 G5s. I think PSU could definitely have the world's fastest supercomputer AND each student would have a piece of it!

[chapstickaddict]

I guess I'm kind of late on this but what the heck.

I'm a PSU student and as far as I can tell this whole Napster system will just suck it up like nobody's business.

Reasons:
1. Napster will not meet the needs of the students who, from what I can tell, listen to a whole hell of a lot of music -NOT- in their rooms. Has anyone else who goes here noticed the number of people listening to music on their way to class? Or, for that matter, the number of people listening to iPods on their way to class?

2. Anyone not running Windows 2000 or XP will not have access to the service. That not only cuts out all the Mac users but also people who haven't yet upgraded or use Linux. Yet we all have to pay for it.

3. Our network is damn slow enough already. Last year, when about 200 people were using a direct connect file sharing program the network traffic was enough to basically shut down the network in at least one dorm. If only 10% of the 13,000 (or 18,000, depending on the source) people on campus use this service at the same time it's still going to be 1,300 people downloading as much as they want. Does anyone else see the potential problem here?

4. They tested this with -SIX- students. SIX! And not all of them loved it. Some of them noted that it was not easy to use and they couldn't find the artists they wanted by just searching for them, partially because Napster doesn't carry the artists.

5. The reason most Windows users have given me for not using iTunes is that they like Winamp just fine (some of them are also under the impression that AAC is a proprietary format but that's another issue) and don't want to switch their music player. The stuff you download or stream from Napster cannot be played in Winamp, you have to use Windows Media Player. Even more people alienated.

6. Finally, if students wanted to buy songs for $.99, they could use iTunes already. At no cost to the University. That way our information technology fee could go toward something useful, like better network infrastructure, more wifi access, printers that don't suck ass or hell, just more free pages per semester instead of this ************.

[carlson9]

the details of this issue because i figured he wouldn't be interested.

chastickaddict,
thanks for the information:

I can't believe they used only 6 students out of 30,000 for a test of these services... they only tested 1 service?

I would like to make your comments(without your name) available to the President and the BOT but I don't think 'forwarding' is legal on this forum.

Or, better yet, how about contacting The Digital Collegian with your 'opinion' at
bks163@psu.edu (staff writer) or the form at:http://146.186.194.36/opinions/opinions.asp

I have sent my opinions to PSU and to the New York Times Web Forum> Technology... what else can I do?

[mikeyredk]

Originally posted by carlson9
mikeyredk
unfortunately professors are not rich enough to influence presidents or kings...

Instead of Penn State trying to choose a music service I wish they would focus on important issues... Virginia Tech installed a G5 based supercomputer... why couldn't Penn State do this. How about buying each student a dorm room G4 iBook or G5??? and connecting them to produce the world's largest open grid supercomputer. Let's see, Penn State's 20,000 on campus G5s vs Virginia Tech's 1100 G5s. I think PSU could definitely have the world's fastest supercomputer AND each student would have a piece of it!

because Penn State is poor if they can't afford to put in carpeting in every dorm room why would they give out computers with those rooms