YOUR VIEWS on the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games

[mogzieee]

The Beijing Olympics, to be held this year, have caused a great deal of speculation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Olympics#Concerns_and_controversy) about:


Human Rights violations, including the current unrest in Tibet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Tibetan_unrest),
The support for the political regime in Darfur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Olympics#Protests_and_potential_boycotts),
The support for dictatorship in Myanmar (aka Burma) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Olympics#Protests_and_potential_boycotts).


Even we have seen on the news recently about protesters interrupting the Beijing Olympic torch relays in London (http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7330000/newsid_7333100/7333169.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&asb=1&news=1&bbcws=1), Paris and Greece.

Now, what are your views on this topic?

...will you boycott support for the games?
...are you not bothered by many of these allegations?
...are you concerned about these issues, but not believing them?
...do you reckon the Olympics should be cancelled?

Please, Leave your responses.


Personally, I think it was stupid to even award the Olympics to China in the first place, it opened up all these risks we knew would happen. So, right now I think that the Olympics should go ahead, since Beijing did get the right to hold the games, and not be canceled, but should definitely apologize or admit to allegations such as Tibet.

[MrT8064]

I think china should really sort its self out before being aloud the olympics; not just from a human rights point of view, but the pollution is so bad, that the runners may be quite badly affected, i don't expect to see any 'records' taking place.

[scotthayes]

China is a pain in the arse and really needs to sort out its Human rights abuse. But boycotting the Olympics is not the answer, remember what good it did when the USA etc, boycotted Moscow in 1980.

[leekohler]

China is a pain in the arse and really needs to sort out its Human rights abuse. But boycotting the Olympics is not the answer, remember what good it did when the USA etc, boycotted Moscow in 1980.

Exactly. It won't do a thing.

[PlaceofDis]

Exactly. It won't do a thing.

nope wont' do or mean much. but that said, i can't see myself or many people i know caring much about the olympics this year, if only because there is a lot going on in US politics that'll distract away from it.

[ucfgrad93]

Don't think I'll watch too much of the Olympics, I have never really been a big fan.

[UltraNEO*]

For or Against doesn't really concern me.
I have better things to do wtih my time than watch TV.
Though I do hope Great Britian win lots and lots of medals :D:D

[stevento]

i think china was a really bad choice of venue.

[leekohler]

i think china was a really bad choice of venue.

Yes- it was. I don't know too many people, liberal or conservative, who like China.

[djellison]

Far from being the hoped for catalyst for change in China, the Olympics simply serve to highlight just how bad the human rights situation is in China.

What upsets me the most, is that London, and thus the UK will be heavily represented at the games, especially at the closing ceremony as we're 'next'. I never wanted the games to come to the UK anyway, but I sure as hell don't want us associated with China.

Doug

[UltraNEO*]

I heard from where, by a famous medium/psychic claim the chinese olympic won't go ahead as planned? anyone heard about it?

[Gelfin]

I heard from where, by a famous medium/psychic claim the chinese olympic won't go ahead as planned? anyone heard about it?

No, but I'm not surprised a "psychic" would say that.

- It is based on a current event, so it draws attention to the "psychic."

- The Olympic Games are a very complex event, so it is almost a sure bet something about it will not run according to plan. The "psychic" will wait for something like that to happen and then later claim that was what he or she was talking about.

- If nothing goes really wrong, the "psychic" will claim it would have done, but someone listened to him or her and prevented the problem from happening.

People who claim to be psychics are frauds. You should not reward them with your attention.

[UltraNEO*]

No, but I'm not surprised a "psychic" would say that.

- It is based on a current event, so it draws attention to the "psychic."

- The Olympic Games are a very complex event, so it is almost a sure bet something about it will not run according to plan. The "psychic" will wait for something like that to happen and then later claim that was what he or she was talking about.

- If nothing goes really wrong, the "psychic" will claim it would have done, but someone listened to him or her and prevented the problem from happening.

People who claim to be psychics are frauds. You should not reward them with your attention.

Your assuming he/she hasn't claimed it yet, right? But the person I'm thinking about has already claimed it... argh, his name slipped my mind.

[Gelfin]

Your assuming he/she hasn't claimed it yet, right? But the person I'm thinking about has already claimed it... argh, his name slipped my mind.

You've misunderstood. Anyone can say "I see the future and something will go wrong with the Olympic Games." There are so many ways something can not go according to plan that such a claim is almost sure to be correct. You don't need special powers to say there will probably be some bad weather this month, or that someone will encounter an intriguing stranger in the near future.

It's not powers. It's reasonably safe guesses, a lot of theatrics, and knowing you want to believe him so you'll remember when he's right and ignore when he's wrong. Such people are parasites.

[UltraNEO*]

You've misunderstood. Anyone can say "I see the future and something will go wrong with the Olympic Games." There are so many ways something can not go according to plan that such a claim is almost sure to be correct. You don't need special powers to say there will probably be some bad weather this month, or that someone will encounter an intriguing stranger in the near future.

It's not powers. It's reasonably safe guesses, a lot of theatrics, and knowing you want to believe him so you'll remember when he's right and ignore when he's wrong. Such people are parasites.

I dunno.. can't say i believe in them.

Personally, I gave up on china's olympic dream when the chinese government after they reckon, they can clean the airpollution by taking 50% of beijing's cars, of the roads... yeah... that'll definitely remove all the smog.

[nbs2]

Personally, I think it was stupid to even award the Olympics to China in the first place, it opened up all these risks we knew would happen. So, right now I think that the Olympics should go ahead, since Beijing did get the right to hold the games, and not be canceled, but should definitely apologize or admit to allegations such as Tibet.

Why? Why?

Bringing worldwide attention to such a cloistered region seemed like a no brainer in the attempt to liberalize China. History is filled with examples of change following the introduction of liberal thoughts and values. Remember that before the current 30 years of backlash, much of the Middle East was on its way to being just as liberal as Europe and the US. One of the factors in the fall of the Wall was the exposure that Eastern European/Soviet youth had to Western goods and ideas. Of course bringing a major commercial spectacle like the Olympics seemed like a good - no - grand idea.

Why should China apologize or admit to anything? Perhaps I misunderstand your intent, but the holding of the Olympics there should not be conditioned on any action on the part of China, beyond working to ensure the safety and enjoyment of the athletes and spectators. If you are contending that it would simply be a good thing for China to do, then ignore this paragraph. :)

My opinion is that the games should go on, and there should be no complaining about Tibet or anything else going on in China. My view of the Olympics is outdated, but I believe that the spirit of the games should be one of friendly competition. Forbidding nations to compete for one reason or another is not in the spirit of the games. Using the games for political purposes is not in the spirit of the games. Beginning to end, the games should be a period of respite from the trouble of the world, where nations meet on a field of play rather than a field of war.

While my hope for these games is far from possible, that is what I hope for.

[themadchemist]

I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I just wanted to say that I thought your post was very nicely formatted. :)

[stevento]

Yes- it was. I don't know too many people, liberal or conservative, who like China.

when i heard they chose china i thought "oh man i hope there's no controversy over human rights and i hope bush doesn't decide to invade them..."

[mogzieee]

I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I just wanted to say that I thought your post was very nicely formatted. :)

Why thank you.

And thats to everyone that's replied. Keep the posts coming!


Though I do hope Great Britian win lots and lots of medals :D:D

Amen to that!

the pollution is so bad, that the runners may be quite badly affected, i don't expect to see any 'records' taking place.

That, too, is a very good point.

[mr.light]

Boycotting only hurts the athletes. Most of these men and women have been training for a large portion of their lives just for a chance to go to the olympics. I can see if individual athlete choose to boycott, that would be their own choice. Think of it instead as an opportunity to continue to expose China's Human rights deficiencies.

[takao]

My opinion is that the games should go on, and there should be no complaining about Tibet or anything else going on in China. My view of the Olympics is outdated, but I believe that the spirit of the games should be one of friendly competition. Forbidding nations to compete for one reason or another is not in the spirit of the games. Using the games for political purposes is not in the spirit of the games. Beginning to end, the games should be a period of respite from the trouble of the world, where nations meet on a field of play rather than a field of war.

While my hope for these games is far from possible, that is what I hope for.

thanks for summing it up nicely it saves myself from writing lengthy answers

[Much Ado]

To the folks saying 'it won't make a difference': to China, this is more than an Olympics. It's hugely symbolic, and they are absolutely desperate to make sure it goes smoothly. A boycott would leave a lot of red faces in China.

(Disclaimer: Although I don't believe a boycott is the answer. Disrupting the torch procession, though- now that is something I admire, as it has the desired impact without affecting the poor athletes who have trained for four years for their respective events.)

[Badandy]

Cloud seeding, killing dogs and cats by the thousands so their streets appear clean, etc. I'll watch some races such as the 100meter sprint, but besides that, I have no interest.

[NAG]

Boycotting it for the questionable things China is doing will have no effect on their actions. Being the better person, so to speak, is the way to open them up. During the (unfortunately) brief period that China will be relatively open hopefully their people will get a more unbiased look at their government (and we get an unbiased look at their condition/the good and bad parts). Hopefully that will be enough to start some reform over there (and elsewhere) and result in better relations.

[stevegmu]

If everyone who claims they feel so strongly about 'human rights violations' in China boycotted their products, China may actually feel some sort of impact.

[iTeen]

I think boycotting the Olympics is something NOT to do. The Olympics have been going on for a very long time, and deserve to be treated with respect.

However, I really don't agree with China, I think boycotting something else would be a great idea...

[NAG]

If everyone who claims they feel so strongly about 'human rights violations' in China boycotted their products, China may actually feel some sort of impact.

That assumes boycotts work like that.

[stevento]

i wonder if the olympics could pull a last minute switcheroo and hold the games somewhere else....?

[tutubibi]

This poll is missing at least one option:

- I don't care about Olympics as it is morally bankrupt enterprise where sports are not primary reason for existance

[NAG]

i wonder if the olympics could pull a last minute switcheroo and hold the games somewhere else....?

Assuming that is even feasible, why would they do that?

[stevegmu]

That assumes boycotts work like that.

They usually don't, because in most cases, fashion or money trumps ideology.
As you can see here, N. Sarkozy has no problem wearing Nike shoes and shorts.

[carbonmotion]

Whow there's alot of dislike for China on this thread. As a Chinese American China specialist for a company in DC, it really saddens me to hear this. I spend a lot of time in China traveling in the some of the wealthiest and poorest areas. It is true that the country is a rapidly rising military and economic power, but we can't forget the fact that just fifteen years ago, the country was one of the not so well to do developing nations around. Today, China is a country that is developing very fast and along, but no miracle growth is without problems and the Chinese economic miracle is without exception. Despite what you may hear from CNN or MSNBC, the political authority in China is working very hard to solve environmental and political problems the country is facing. But like western nations, everything is a delicate balance and even the most perfect solutions are often impeded by corruption and bureaucratic inefficiency, a trait common of third world nations (which China is).

[stevegmu]

Whow there's alot of dislike for China on this thread. As a Chinese American China specialist for a company in DC, it really saddens me to hear this. I spend a lot of time in China traveling in the some of the wealthiest and poorest areas. It is true that the country is a rapidly rising military and economic power, but we can't forget the fact that just fifteen years ago, the country was one of the not so well to do developing nations around. Today, China is a country that is developing very fast and along, but no miracle growth is without problems and the Chinese economic miracle is without exception. Despite what you may hear from CNN or MSNBC, the political authority in China is working very hard to solve environmental and political problems the country is facing. But like western nations, everything is a delicate balance and even the most perfect solutions are often impeded by corruption and bureaucratic inefficiency, a trait common of third world nations (which China is).

Yeah, I don't really see China as being much different than most other countries as they went through their industrial revolutions. Even the US had child labor at one time.
Personally I boycott Chinese goods because they are, for the most part, inferior to others, not out 'human rights violations.'

[EricNau]

I love the Olympics: the events, and everything they stand for. Abandoning the Olympics would be to abandon the hope that countries from all over the world can unite in one place and compete in friendly competition for a few weeks every couple of years.

However, China may not have been the best choice of hosts at this time, although I'd like to think (or hope) the enthusiasm China has displayed is a step in the right direction.

[carbonmotion]

Personally I boycott Chinese goods because they are, for the most part, inferior to others, not out 'human rights violations.'
I'm a huge fan of sporting goods, clothes, and electronics... it's darn near impossible to find a decent made in America brand now a days. New Balance and Saucony for runnings shoes... maybe. Ralph Lauren, Lacoste, Abercrombie, Banana Republic, you name it! all build their goods in China. Hell, I heard for a while even American Apparel pre-abricated their clothing in China and did minimal assembly in the US.

I also don't think quality is an issue. If you find a shady supplier, you will get shady products. If you find a good supplier, you will get good products. Apple, Nokia, LG, Samsung, Thinkpads products are all built in China and they are what we generally associate with quality products.

I think the reason for the trade imbalance is that Chinese workers can fullfill the needs of US product makers for a much cheaper price than US workers at generally the same quality.

[carbonmotion]

However, China may not have been the best choice of hosts at this time, although I'd like to think (or hope) the enthusiasm China has displayed is a step in the right direction.

I think China is precisely the right host.

First, it showcases to the world the fruits of two decades of hard work. Chinese people can really beam about just how far they've come and all the hardships they had to endure along the way.

Second, It brings China a step closer (albeit tiny step) becoming a responsible member of the developed nations.

Plus, I also think much of western media has been somewhat unkind to China in regards to the Olympics, cherry picking the negative stories and ignoring many of the positive stories.

In regards to the protests in Tibet, there is a limited amount of information on what happened and from what I can gather it is less an issue of Tibet independence and more of issue of minority rights. I think these riots symbolize a institutionalized racism towards the minority. That said, the level of violence displayed by the protesters (white-washed by some western media outlets) and evidence of doctored photographs of Chinese police brutality erodes their moral upper hand. Did Chinese Police Forces over-react? Perhaps a little. But it is a bit more restrained then a few years ago with the Falun gung, a much more restrained than Tiananmen, and far more restrained the during the Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution. It is my opinion that what has happened in Tibet is very similar to the civil rights riots in the United States during the sixties and seventies. I am sure our European brothers cringed at how savaged and unrestrained our government was in dealing with social issues just as we cringe at how savage and unrestrained the Chinese security forces are toward the Tibet protesters. Perhaps someday, some Chinese citizen will react the same way toward some similar situation elsewhere. My point is, developing the kind of social sensitivity to minority issues take time. I believe that the chances that sanctions will help matters is slim, much like repeatably beating your child to correct his errors. It is only by bringing China in to the international community that will finally allow it to see itself as a great power with moral standards to uphold.

[stevegmu]

I'm a huge fan of sporting goods, clothes, and electronics... it's darn near impossible to find a decent made in America brand now a days. New Balance and Saucony for runnings shoes... maybe. Ralph Lauren, Lacoste, Abercrombie, Banana Republic, you name it! all build their goods in China. Hell, I heard for a while even American Apparel pre-abricated their clothing in China and did minimal assembly in the US.

I also don't think quality is an issue. If you find a shady supplier, you will get shady products. If you find a good supplier, you will get good products. Apple, Nokia, LG, Samsung, Thinkpads products are all built in China and they are what we generally associate with quality products.

I think the reason for the trade imbalance is that Chinese workers can fullfill the needs of US product makers for a much cheaper price than US workers at generally the same quality.

I run about 18 miles a week, on New Balance 2001's, and have several other pairs from their Made in America line. When I ran on the $85 Chinese made running shoes, I would end up having to buy a new pair every 3 months, or so. As far as dress and casual shoes, I only wear Allen Edmonds.

I imagine Apple and other high-end electronics companies insist on higher standards of quality control than, say, a $450 Dell system. If I could pay double for a Mac assembled in the US, I would, however.
I have noticed products, such as tools made in China are inferior to US made, or German made equivalents. They seem to have difficulty with quality raw materials, as well as precision tool and die manufacturing.

Of course it is cheaper. Union wages have killed American manufacturing. If the average union worker in the US is paid $26/hr., and the average Chinese worker paid $1/day, it is a given most companies will ship their production to China.

[carbonmotion]

I have noticed products, such as tools made in China are inferior to US made, or German made equivalents. They seem to have difficulty with quality raw materials, as well as precision tool and die manufacturing.


Yes are correct. Quality control standards are sub-par due to corruption and pricing constraints. Chinese workers are paid far less in dollars than American workers, however, much more than $1 a day, at least when working for companies with brands that Americans recognize. Because basic goods are cheaper in China than in the United States, these workers' living standards have improved drastically in the past decade and a half. By no means is ths labor "slave labor" or coerced labor. If anything, there is too many workers willing to work and not enough western and eastern companies willing to supply jobs. Given this situation, I am not convinced that forcing China to revalue their currency and adding tariffs on to imported Chinese goods is a realistic solution, especially given the current economic climate. If we act in such a way, we should not be surprised if the PRC decide to act in ways which benefit herself, but hurt the US of A.

***

China is where Japan and Korea was a few decades ago. My neighbor still remembers yelling, "cheap jap trinkets!". But then Japan made the transition from making cheap trinkets to the maker of Sony Bravia TVs and Lexus automobiles. Soon, they become industry leaders, for example, in the automotive field. It took Japan many years to make the transition from a producer nation to a innovator nation, Korea took notes from Japan and made the jump in a much shorter time. China is taking notes from both of these nations and will likely make the jump in a even shorter time. The time will come when you'll be gawking at the latest model of [fill in the blank] Chinese made consumer product in awe. It may even come sooner than you expect. It might even be possible that China will create a whole new field, much like the US created the IT field. I recently toured a advanced genetic engineering/ pharmaceutical research facility in Beiping. I assumed that the company was a subsidiary of Pizer or Merck... or a government owned operation. I was very surprised to find that this state of the art lab was one of seventy owned by a private company in China. The advantage of the lab would be the unlimited supply of Ph.Ds in China who are willing to work for a fraction of the cost of western PhDs. The company can then save the money and pay reputed genetic researchers from famous universities like oxford, stanford, and havard to come to china and lead the R&D.

With that said, I personally think that there are many political, enviromental, and cultural roadblocks that China must conquer before making this jump. In my opinion, such a transition will not be completed in the next 10 - 15 years.

[stevento]

Assuming that is even feasible, why would they do that?

because this animosity over tibet and boycotting, that could escalate and while george bush is still in power i don't know what could happen

[mogzieee]

Plus, I also think much of western media has been somewhat unkind to China in regards to the Olympics, cherry picking the negative stories and ignoring many of the positive stories.

I'd agree with you on that one.

I, living in the UK, have opted in to volunteer to help for the 2012 Olympic Games in London, but I don't know if I really want to anymore because of the litterally HUGE amount of money British tax payers have had to spend on this project (I believe it's about 9.2 billion GBP - roughly $18.4 billion for all you American folk). This is something that will really pop up in 2012 - "was it worth it", and I think many people are forgetting what the Olympics does to places after they are held - the change is magnificent! The East London culture will change for ever and it will be good - and this is the reason why I haven't withdrawn my application to volunteer.

Basically, If the same were to happen in Beijing, hopefully the people there will become more orientated around the western world of sport. I think the after effects will be great.... but the run up and the process may need a little sort out before hand.


And btw, thanks very much "carbonmotion"... your replies have been awesome to read.. thanks!

[Rodimus Prime]

Plus, I also think much of western media has been somewhat unkind to China in regards to the Olympics, cherry picking the negative stories and ignoring many of the positive stories.



And you have my reason why I have little faith in the media any more. A very long time ago they stop caring about the news and went in it only for money. All they want to show is negative.

I learned to take anything with a grain of salt and question the rest of the story saying what is the missing infomation and more often than not when those missing pieces are put in all of a sudden the negitive does not look so bad to hey it was the right thing to do.

There are countless stories in the political forums this hold true on. everyone is seeing the cherry picked stories but not seeing the rest of the information because the Media is crap. That goes double for TV media.

[carbonmotion]

There are countless stories in the political forums this hold true on. everyone is seeing the cherry picked stories but not seeing the rest of the information because the Media is crap. That goes double for TV media.

Western blue collar workers feel that the Chinese stole their jobs, so I think in many respects, the papers are just playing to their base. If someone stole your job, it helps to sell papers to pain him or her as a horrible person as well. It helps reinforce your resentment, even give reason to illogical hatred.

[carbonmotion]

Basically, If the same were to happen in Beijing, hopefully the people there will become more orientated around the western world of sport. I think the after effects will be great.... but the run up and the process may need a little sort out before hand.


And btw, thanks very much "carbonmotion"... your replies have been awesome to read.. thanks!

Thank you, I do what I can :D

[SMM]

**yawn**

[solvs]

i wonder if the olympics could pull a last minute switcheroo and hold the games somewhere else....?
Again, you really can't change rules right in the middle and not expect people to be a little miffed.

Guessing they were trying to import a little of the world into China, make a statement themselves, but it never really works out that way does it? Russia had to fall on it's own, China will too. We're having to learn our lessons the hard way too. Would feel a little hypocritical to boycott them considering what our gov is doing. And would only hurt the people, who's only crime is not being able to do much about their gov. You should have added a 3rd option for those of who aren't happy with the situation, but know a boycott won't do much, and don't really care much about the Olympics either way.

[carbonmotion]

Guessing they were trying to import a little of the world into China, make a statement themselves, but it never really works out that way does it? Russia had to fall on it's own, China will too.

I don't t think it is accurate to predict future developments of the Chinese state on historical precedences of former communist countries like the USSR. Having spent a significant time all over China, it is highly unlikely that the Chinese state will dissolve or even fragment. Perhaps in 50 - 80 years time, it will make a full transition to a democracy, but it not something to look forward to in the immediate future.

It's curious that many people I have met have the impression of China as a thieving repressive state, yet none of those people have bothered to study the country in depth or give a lengthy visit to the nation. As a political scientist, it is difficult for me to accept the media portrayal of China as it panders to blue collar fears by portraying the PRC as an alien and repressive place. It is also important to point out that recent troubles China had with ethnic minorities are very complicated issues that have historical roots which pre-date the entire history of the United States. In order to understand China, her triumphs and her failures, you have to at the very least read a few good books.

Recommended:

Governing China: From Revolution Through Reform (2nd Edition), by Dr. Kenneth Liberthal

[Peterkro]

Thanks for the measured posts about China carbonmotion.The demonisation of China by the western media is just the usual way of diverting attention from the real problems that exist for people in those same western countries (that's not to say China is without problems it has many ).Criticising China for it's envoiromental pollution is a bit rich coming from people in North America and Europe who not only razed the land they live in but huge swathes of the rest of the world and now enjoying the benifits of that destruction want to prevent others from doing the same thing.Want to help the World by lowering Chinese pollution levels then pay them to do it.That's the only sensible solution I can see.

[solvs]

I don't t think it is accurate to predict future developments of the Chinese state on historical precedences of former communist countries like the USSR. Having spent a significant time all over China, it is highly unlikely that the Chinese state will dissolve or even fragment. Perhaps in 50 - 80 years time, it will make a full transition to a democracy, but it not something to look forward to in the immediate future.
I don't know if I'd even say it was that short of a time. My point was that if it was going to fall, it would be from within. Poorly worded, apologies. Either through internal political upheaval, or collapsing under it's own whatever, it's possible. I also noted it was possible we'd have the same problem here in the US. Could happen. I noted the hypocrisy.

I am somewhat familiar with the good there, but painfully aware of the bad, just feel helpless to do anything about that.

[carbonmotion]

I don't know if I'd even say it was that short of a time. My point was that if it was going to fall, it would be from within. Poorly worded, apologies. Either through internal political upheaval, or collapsing under it's own whatever, it's possible. I also noted it was possible we'd have the same problem here in the US. Could happen. I noted the hypocrisy.

I am somewhat familiar with the good there, but painfully aware of the bad, just feel helpless to do anything about that.

I think my point is transition to Democracy from totalitarianism does not mean revolution

[solvs]

I think my point is transition to Democracy from totalitarianism does not mean revolution
I'm agreeing with you. ;)

It could be laziness, or corruption, or slow political progression, or a giant meteor. My only point was that boycotting the Olympics ain't gonna do it anymore than when we boycotted the USSR. It's usually internal, and should come from their own people. Could be revolution though. Who knows. I don't see it in China anytime soon, but I don't see it here either. In our case, mainly the first thing I mentioned. :o

[mogzieee]

Short answer: I will boycott watching the games and I will make an effort boycott all companies that continue to sponsor the farce.
The games should have never gone to China in the first place and despite what Mr. Rogge from the IOC says, the games went to China for political and economic reasons and he and his ilk give a flying ***** about the athletes and the sport.
I find it especially disgusting that they more or less want to gag those athletes that do wish to take a political stance on the issue. It's disgraceful. He says the games should be apolitical. The truth is, that all of them, especially the corporate sponsors and the politicians are afraid it might harm their profits if they offend China. Spineless cowards, the lot of them.
Cheers,

Ahmed


Wow, you have some... erm... strong views..... lol

[notjustjay]

What is China going to do?

Option A - after thousands of years of being who they are, suddenly, based on angry protests and boycotts from other countries, "see the light" and repent, changing their ways overnight.

Option B - pretend to be concerned, and make some token initiatives -- at least until the games are over. Then BAM! right back to where they were before.

Option C - carry on doing whatever the heck they want, because they know they can get away with it. We can protest and boycott all we want, yet send them billions of dollars each year so we can have our cheap Wal-Mart products. Who's kidding who? All they have to do is stop the flow of cheaply produced goods from their factories and watch your economy collapse.

Those of you who feel strongly enough to boycott everything made in China, I applaud your efforts, but wonder just where you're shopping. And what kind of computer you're reading this on. :)

[skunk]

Short answer: I will boycott watching the games and I will make an effort boycott all companies that continue to sponsor the farce.I'm sure that "boycott(ing) watching the games" will really tell those Chinese. And what is this "make an effort" business? Either do it or don't. If you're going to boycott China from your armchair, you might at least do it with conviction.

Personally, I think engagement is a thousand times more likely to effect a change than a boycott.

[ayeying]

From my view, politics should NOT be involved in any of this. I'd just say this is bad timing for China because of their socialist state.

For the 2008 Tibetan Unrest, according to wikipedia, a protest turned violent then europted in the involvement of the Chinese army. Think about it. If there was a large scale of civil unrest in any part of the world, the government would send in the military or some sort of force to put down the unrest. We don't live in a land of anarchy, and nither do the chinese.

For the protests, from what I've read, it started primary because of the arrest of 3 reporters who were charged with "disrupting the event" or something around there. While I don't agree on China's methods of keeping their citizens quiet, they are still a communist/socialist based country. They see it as a method, the only method, for a person to keep quiet. Furthermore, for the protestors, I think you really don't have much to do in your life. I agree with the right to protest and for some things I would protest myself, but right now the protests are disrupting people who wish to enjoy the event. If you were hosting a party at your house and I decided to disrupt it by holding signs and yelling in your front yard because of some reason, would you be happy about it and say, I don't care, or would you call the police and try to get me off the property? As odd as it seems, the analogy is quite similar. I want to enjoy the torch run and the games, but you people are just ruining it for me. I went to the SF one and what do I see? Protesters, people pushing, and getting violent too. Where's the torch? No where to be seen because of you protestors. Seriously, I'm pissed off not because of China's human rights policy but the protestors.

For boycotting the entire event is just stupid. From my view, the Olympics are a sporting event, displaying the talents and skills of many athletes. I'm not a sports fan, I don't watch football, baseball or any of that, but the Olympics is something I am interested in. I would like to travel to Beijing to see it this year but because of work, I can't. Furthermore, do you really believe it would make any difference in boycotting the event? It didn't work for the US during the 1980s game, why would it work now?

In the US, we have the right to protest. Fine. But Don't get violent and pissed off like a little kid just because you don't get what you want during your protest.

I don't approve on China's policies. I don't approve on many of their policies but that doesn't stop me on enjoying the olympics hosted by them, buying their products, or anything else. I seriously think China can do some change, but do it where it won't disrupt these type of large events.

[mogzieee]

sorry just a quick question.. has China had the Olympics before now?

[skunk]

sorry just a quick question.. has China had the Olympics before now?No.

[KingYaba]

I will watch the Olympics.

[Iscariot]

I will support the Olympics valiant attempt to give the world a good night's sleep.

[carbonmotion]

Short answer: I will boycott watching the games and I will make an effort boycott all companies that continue to sponsor the farce.
The games should have never gone to China in the first place and despite what Mr. Rogge from the IOC says, the games went to China for political and economic reasons and he and his ilk give a flying ***** about the athletes and the sport.

Cheers,

Ahmed

Why? I think China got the games fair and square.

[iFizz]

For centuries, the Olympic Games have served as a place for the people of the world, regardless of race, creed, color, religion, or political beliefs, to come together and compete with honor and pride. An event where athletes from around the world can set aside any differences, lay down their weapons, and compete with honor. The Olympic games are sacred to me. World events have no bearing on my support for them. Apples and oranges...
I'll be watching the Games and cheering for my country.

[jng]

I was at a conference last week and someone asked the Mayor of Berlin his stance on China and the Olympics and he essentially said: I don't support a boycott and to all those who do, where were you when China was selected for the Summer 08 games in the first place?

I agree with him. China is a trading partner to many important countries. And I'd also like to believe that as China grows, she'll become more open, democratic and tolerant. To me personally, a boycott is a dent in this path and possibly a step backward toward censorship and repression.

[Rodimus Prime]

i think it is rather said how big of a political deal people are making out of this. It should never be that way. Politics should not be involved in the Olympics but yet people are dragging it in. Boycotting them is just dragging politics in a place it does not belong. This is about the world coming together for athletic events. China is at least trying to get it act together and human rights. It takes time yet the people here expect it to happen over night.....
They are on the road and have been for a while. I think this is a good way to help push them along.
Hell starting to make this political just means it easier for the rest. Next time the games are in the US people will scream to boycott it for some BS reason.

Personally I think any country that boycotts the 08 olympics should be effective in 2010 banned from hosting the Olympics for 20 years or so. That would shape up some REAL quick because if they are on the list to host they now have lost it.

As for me I am not really going to watch much of the Olympics because honestly I do not care for many of the sports. My favorites are all in the winter games.

[skunk]

First of all. I was right there and said it was a bad idea way back then. I also said putting the soccer world cup to South Africa was a bad idea from a security standpoint for the average soccer tourists from the get go. I was also against offering Turkey a membership in the EU the moment it was suggested.Interesting. I hold exactly the opposite view on all three of those questions.

[jng]

As for Mister Wowereit. He would be well advised to shut his gob and stay out of politics above his station and focus on cleaning up the financial mess that is his city so it stops being a tax sinkhole for the rest of the country.


Herr Wowereit is entitled to his own private opinion just like everyone else, including you although I and others find them absurd.

And also he's a new mayor. He's inherited the "tax sinkhole" as you call it. You're one of those snobby Münchener, aren't you?

[takao]

I was at a conference last week and someone asked the Mayor of Berlin his stance on China and the Olympics and he essentially said: I don't support a boycott and to all those who do, where were you when China was selected for the Summer 08 games in the first place?

and he is true about that ... how many complained back when it was select ? very very few ... just like very few complained when south africa was given the world cup
or when atlanta was given the olympic games in 1996 for the 100 year anniversary over Athens ... so much for hypocritical "it's all about the money" crying ... Coca-Cola flat out bought the games


that said boycotts do nothing good (see olympia '80 and '84)

[Rodimus Prime]

and he is true about that ... how many complained back when it was select ? very very few ... just like very few complained when south africa was given the world cup
or when atlanta was given the olympic games in 1996 for the 100 year anniversary over Athens ... so much for hypocritical "it's all about the money" crying ... Coca-Cola flat out bought the games


that said boycotts do nothing good (see olympia '80 and '84)

and this is my reason I think that any country that boycotts them this year should recieve a punishment that they are not allowed to host the Olympics for the next 20 years. If they are schedule to host the Olympics during that time already a new city will be selected.

[aethelbert]

I think that there's a differene between supporting the Olympics and supporting the host. I personally support the games, but I am disgusted with what China has been doing lately.

[stevegmu]

What is China going to do?

Option A - after thousands of years of being who they are, suddenly, based on angry protests and boycotts from other countries, "see the light" and repent, changing their ways overnight.



China has only been a Communist nation for around 59 years.

[skunk]

China has only been a Communist nation for around 59 years.Is this relevant?

[JG271]

My view is that the olympics should go ahead, but there are many issues to be addressed in china. I don't really think they should have had the games awarded to them just yet.

The olympics shouldn't be, but is often turns into a political issue; this year china are almost using the games as a display of their power in some senses - having the flame go all around the world with chinese guards.

I also think that the protesters should make sure they know about the issue they are protesting about - I'm all for tibet having more of an identity and being able to practice their religion more freely - but do Tibetans necessarily want to be independent from china?

[carbonmotion]

I love it when people say they boycott China. It's pretty easy to do in some western european countries as many of the goods are still labeled made in some european country. This is, of course, a joke. I've been to europe on many occasions and see many low end and high end goods with the made in x european country labeled. I would aways think to myself, "how can it be that American consumer goods are all made in china, but most european goods are made in europe." Then in china, I help set up factories where the those same goods are made, then sent to europe to be labeled. This is how it's done. Good luck with your boycott Ahmed, it would certainly mean you don't use apple computers.

Also, China is a very complex nation with a culture that extends thousands of years. It is certainly important to view Chinese actions in that context. Some guy who runs around criticizing China after watching a 15 minute CNN excerpt and reading some New York Time piece is not speaking from a well informed position. In fact, if you have not been to China, you certainly won't ever understand the country. To gain even a partial understand of a country as complex and different as China, you have to have both read up on it scholastically and have been there for a period. Anything less and you will come away with less than even a partial understanding. How can you make such full-of-crap judgement against a country armed with only a less than partial understanding? The answer is you can't, but apparently people still do as evidenced on this thread.

[solvs]

Is this relevant?

Is it ever?

[-::ubermann::-]

i find it ridiculous usa criticis about tibet, why is it asking china to free tibet when it cannot even free lakota?!?
"the chinese are oppressive" i don't consider opressing freeing over 95% of tibetans from their caste ridden society

[yojitani]

Holding the Olympics in China has got to be one of the worst ideas of the early C21st. The world reactions, however ill-informed, were predictable and the subsequent rise in nationalist fervor in China is just not good for anyone except the Chinese leadership.

[skunk]

Holding the Olympics in China has got to be one of the worst ideas of the early C20th.This may come as a dreadful shock, but it's been the twenty-first century for eight years.

[yojitani]

This may come as a dreadful shock, but it's been the twenty-first century for eight years.

:D:o duly noted and edited.

[solvs]

This may come as a dreadful shock, but it's been the twenty-first century for eight years.

Still writing the 20th Century on my checks. Wait, I already used that joke. Yeah, still not that funny.

[stevegmu]

i find it ridiculous usa criticis about tibet, why is it asking china to free tibet when it cannot even free lakota?!?
"the chinese are oppressive" i don't consider opressing freeing over 95% of tibetans from their caste ridden society

Since when does the USA as a whole criticize China over Tibet? I don't really care one way or another. I saw the Tibetan monks burning the Chinese banks and other government property, so they certainly are not as innocent as many would like to believe.

[solvs]

Since when does the USA as a whole criticize China over Tibet?
By that line of reasoning, why would the US care so much about Iraq or Iran if they didn't pose a direct threat to us?

[mogzieee]

i find it ridiculous usa criticis about tibet, why is it asking china to free tibet when it cannot even free lakota?!?
"the chinese are oppressive" i don't consider opressing freeing over 95% of tibetans from their caste ridden society

Agreed.

Sorry this is now an old story, but, here's an update:

...does anyone here really believe China took the flame all the way to the peek of Everest? It seems unlikely if you ask me, why didn't they let any media in..? Probably because they didn't do it.